 Welcome back. It's still the breakfast on plus TV Africa as we focus on label martyrs. Vice President Professor Yamio Shiba Drew has made a passionate appeal to the organized labor to prevail on the academic staff union of Universities ASU to call off their strike. The vice president also urged ASU to embrace the path of dialogue in resolving the crisis necessitate in the strike actions. The appeal came just as the VP was making a remark at the 2022 May Day Commemoration at the Eagles Square at Bodger on Sunday, just to remind you that ASU has been on strike since the 14th of April or February rather. Joining us now is ASU Chairman in the University of Lagos chapter Dili Ashiro. Thanks for joining us on the breakfast. I saw you smiling. Good morning. Thank you for this invitation. It's May Day Nigerians are celebrating. The walkers are commemorating the day. Most people are not celebrating judging by the fact that specifically label that's ASU has been on strike since February. It's been over 70 days, 80 days as it were. And the young press is still there. And then the vice president is appealing and you are smiling to label to intervene on your union. Well, I didn't understand that. Well, you see, thank you for this invitation. It's laughable because if you have a vice president that was once a university teacher. In fact, a lecturer in my university and since he became vice president, ASU had been on strike for at least three times. And the only intervention you are getting from him is to appeal to ASU to call off the strike. Isn't that laughable? That tells you the mindset of the kind of people who rule Nigeria and also aspire to rule at the highest level. It is uncharitable to say the least. For the vice president of a country, a professor of law, a senior advocate, the only intervention is to appeal, asking organized label to appeal to ASU. That is just let's leave it at that. The minimum expectation is for the vice president to tell the world that look, as a former university teacher, let me intervene in this crisis with a view to resolving it. So with all of the issues we have with government, all the vice president can do is to appeal to organize label to prevail on ASU to call off the strike. Is to say the least unbecoming of somebody at that very high level. But let's even follow up on this conversation that you have actually raised. I mean, the vice president is the vice president and if you look at responsibility and duties, of course you also would agree that that might not necessarily be it, but doesn't mean that he doesn't have an influence to it, which you have rightly stated. But the implementation, do you think it has to do with because it's okay for the vice president to say, yes, I'm former lecturer. This is what it is. I don't support all of this. I'm going to intervene. But can he force implementation? We're talking about funds to be released here. We're talking about, you know, releasing because at the end of the day it's about a resource conflict. So what, you know, what significance, what impacts can the vice president have on, you know, the ASU strike and the educational sector? I mean, all that's going on. A lot. Okay, so go ahead. A lot. A professor, a former university teacher, somebody who's been in the saddle and now you are vice president. Look, there's a lot it can do. And bear in mind, the crux of ASU strike is not about releasing funds. We are talking about an agreement we have with government since 2009, almost 13 years ago. That agreement is yet to be fully implemented. The agreement itself provides that either government or a union could call for a review of that agreement every three years. It was only last year, 12 years after that we succeeded in getting government to sit down to renegotiate that agreement. Between that time and today, that agreement is still with government. And the vice president cannot say, okay, I'm seeking the leave of Mr. President. Let this matter come before me as a former university teacher. And let me see how I could, you know, intervene now that it's election time. It's now appealing to Roscoe. Call of the strike based on what? A university lecturer in Nigeria has been receiving the same salary since 2019 dates. But you would also want to agree. I mean, if you follow the developments in this country, not trying to hold brief for the vice president here, but you know how it has been a problem to even have the president transmit powers to. That's his. No, no, no. So I mean, what capacity does he now act and say? Because you have a ministry of education. Seeking the leave. You have a minister of education? A minister of education. All ministers report to the presidency because they are, I mean, appointed by the president. I'm saying seeking his leave. I'm not talking about transmuting power or whatever the politics that is within them in government. What we are saying is that even if he's not going to yield any result, okay, why is he appealing to us to call out the strike now? Oh, so we will yield to his appeal when he failed in intervening in the matter. When? I mean, it's best to do so. Okay, let me try and understand the situation right now. It's been 13 years since we've been talking about this agreement reached between ASU and the federal government. But over time, you know, there have been strikes. ASU would call for a strike. There will be negotiations and promises by the government. At the end of the day, there will be no fulfillment of promises. ASU will go back again. It's like ASU has been too trusting of government and they actually haven't really taken it too seriously themselves because each time there have been strikes, they've been called off, there have been more strikes and that. So why would this one be different, really? You see, you can't grind a university system in perpetuity. And our union believes that union struggle is incremental. The moment, the day you get everything you want in life, life itself will end. So we understand that, look, when we engage government and then we get some concessions, we believe that a responsible and responsive government should implement an agreement you freely enter to. And if you make promises, it's only also gentlemanly that you will faithfully implement those promises. Unfortunately, that has not been the beat with successive governments in Nigeria. I mean, take for example, in 2020, we were on a nine-month strike and government came to say we will renegotiate the agreement, we will commence implementation, we will pay you your arrears of promotion, pay you end academic allowances and all such, you know, promises. One year after we're in another made, nothing. Even the releases that were made were consequent upon, you know, our agitation and sounding the notice of another strike. As I speak with you, government is still in default of two tranches of end academic allowances going to our members. Government promised that once UTAs is tested, they are going to take us off the IPPIS and deploy UTAs. One year after, UTAs is now embroiled in a political struggle between Nita, that is a parastatal under a ministry whose professorship, fraudulent professorship is being challenged by our union. So do you think UTAs is actually, the federal government has a complete disagreement with UTAs payment plan or what exactly is the issue? Why are they insisting on IPPIS? You see two reasons. One, IPPIS is a fraud. How so? Oh, the latest accountant general of the federations report, which I have on my phone and I can spare you a copy here as I live here and you can share with members of the public. Indicted IPPIS. In fact, they have very unkind words in describing IPPIS. We have challenged government to make that report public, hope to today. Of course, you know that such reports would not see the light of the day, but we have it and it's not been denied. Not only that. Only recently, the head of the civil service of the federation, Mrs. Foulash Adi Esso, came on air. I don't know whether you reported it. 3,000 or more Goose workers found that was what IPPIS was introduced to check and now with IPPIS, there are fraudulent enrollments on the IPPIS. The second reason why they don't want UTAs is that the kind of thing you do on IPPIS, you can't do it on UTAs. Such as? Such as the way UTAs was developed. Any time you go on that platform, a permanent report is made for audit purpose on the UTAs platform and it's permanent. Unless you crash the system, you can't erase it. I think seeing that and the fact that it will no longer be business as usual because the reason why we named UTAs as university transparency and accountability is that it ensures transparency at the university level and at the implementation level. In that report, I cited 14 years after the implementation of UTAs, the HR component, human resource component of that platform is still yet to be developed 14 years after and then you have a payment platform domiciled in the account and general of the federation's office. There is no check whatsoever. That will not be the case with UTAs and haven't seen the flexibility of UTAs, the robustness of that software, the dynamic nature in which it functions, the enormous database that it has, and the accountability and transparency aspect of it. Those who have been feeding fat on IPPS will not certainly allow that platform to see the light of the day. But our union is determined because it is our conviction that unless we want to permanently destroy the last fabric of public university system in Nigeria, that's when you keep us on IPPS. As I speak with you, go find out there's nobody on the IPPS platform that will have any complimentary thing to say about this. Let's also get to the fact that you have the government ceiling-sisting. The government said that the UTAs failed the integrity test. Which is not correct. And the government is also saying that, I mean, when you say not correct in what sense would UTAs- I have the report, the technical- Because the government is also saying that they're waiting on the ASU to go back and upgrade the system, that they failed the integrity test. That's a long time ago. I mean, Igigay came and told the world that the technical team of ASU and that of NITDA will sit together to harm. NITDA didn't fail. What happened was that the people in NITDA, and I'm saying it publicly, really don't understand the workings of the university system. And consequently, couldn't appreciate the robustness of UTAs. Let me give you one example of the so-called failure. Now, in developing UTAs, we realize that the university system is a universal phenomenon, which means that if you hold a BSE in Nigeria, that same BSE is valid anywhere in the world. Not only that, the university system encourages diversity, by which I mean that lecturers should be able to come from other countries, United Kingdom, Canada, anywhere to teach in Nigeria and vice versa. Now, so what UTAs did was to develop the keyboard in such a way that it can accommodate all kinds of characters. Because, of course, if you want to write some names, you can put dot either on top or at the bottom and all of that. But NITDA came and said, no, that is not in consonants with best practices. And then we explained that, look, if you want to write my name, for example, as Shola, and you want to write it like a linguist, you have to put a dot either underneath and on the O on top of it and all of that. But NITDA insisted that no, that should not be allowed and all that. And within 24 hours, that was corrected. Look, UTAs is developed by the best brains in ICT, Nigeria. And during one of the tests that I witnessed, all efforts to hack into the system through what they call the vulnerability test failed. And the technical team of NITDA agreed that that software had been developed in the most sophisticated manner. Look, I will share the report of NITDA with you, I have it on my phone. NITDA was adjourned to have scored 99.3%. Would you say that a system that scored 99.3% failed? By what stroke of mathematical imagination would a software with over 90% pass rates, all of the tests failed? So the question to ask is, where did the DG of NITDA get that information that he volunteered at the Federal Executive Consulate? But we are not surprised. Nigerians and their leaders, leaders in Nigeria rule Nigeria with half truth and falsehood. And that's why it's convenient for the DG of NITDA to do what they have done without anybody calling him to question. Our union have challenged the DG of NITDA to a public debate and tell Nigerians how we arrived at that conclusion. Up to today, there has not been any query. There has not been any response from government in reaction, I mean to the position of our union. I am still saying it, I am on air that UTAs did not fail. The DG of NITDA was economically with the truth in briefing Federal Executive Council and they should come and dispute that. Well, we hope to reach out and also get the other side of the story. But moving forward, I mean, looking at the essence of yesterday, today, the question would be how would you describe the welfare of the Nigerian worker, both the public and the private sector in your words? Shameful, appalling. Nigeria, a country so blessed and yet doze, moil and toil for the survival of the country are treated in the way that we are all witnessing today. I mean, let's take for example, minimum wage in Nigeria is 30,000 naira. What is 30,000 naira going to buy? A bag of rice as we speak in Nigeria today is more than 30,000 naira. So what it means is that a worker cannot even afford one bag of rice in a month. So it is shameful and it is in the same country that an application form to be compressed in it is 100 million. That tells you- I'm 40 million. That tells you- I'm taking the upper limit. That tells you the degree of inequality and the fact that those that are rich in Nigeria are doing so incomplete disregard for the workers of the country. That to my mind is to say the least shameful. Okay, let's stay on- I just want to understand what is on right now. As we speak, what's the latest with the negotiations with federal government? What's the situation as we speak? Is there any gleam or hope? What's the position right now? Maybe after the conventions. As we speak, nobody is even- it's even bothered about whether over two million Nigerian students are at home. There's been over 75 days. Eh, you know it- we are aggrieved and justifiably so. Look, the highest professor, the highest paid professor in Nigerian University today ends less than 500 dollars in a month. It's total 416,000. So it's not even up to 500,000? It's not shocking, you say. And to be a professor, first you must have the highest degree, which is a PhD. You must be one of the best in that discipline. That's why they say you are professor. And you must have taught in a university for a minimum of 20 years. Now, haven't done all that. All you take home is 416,000. Now, that's not up to what, you know, a fresh intake into CBN takes in a month or NNPC or all of those so-called cash cows. So when you see a society like that, you think that that society can develop, can go beyond the level that it is at the moment. So what we are saying is that we are aggrieved, we declare the strike, first a rollover strike for four weeks. Thinking that, look, given the issues, government can put its ass together and within four weeks resolve these issues and then we go back to work. After the first four weeks, nothing. We are the rollover for eight weeks. The eight weeks are since lapsed, or we lapsed, maybe next week. And as I speak with you, all we get from the minister of labor is, you know, some ego tripping about what he has done or what he has not done. The minister of education is even aware to be seen or heard. Relevant agencies of government are also onlooking. The latest we have received as workers' day gift is the appeal by the vice president that we should go back to work, hungry, haggard, you know, disoriented. All right. So we've been told that we have Chris Oñeca via phone. He is the NLC chairman, if I'm not mistaken. Chris Oñeca, it's good to have you join us this morning on the breakfast. Chris Oñeca, can you hear us? I can hear you very well. All right. Thank you so much for joining us on the show. That's the breakfast. Of course, we're looking at the welfare of the Nigerian worker and looking at the workers' day celebration. But quick to you, what has labor done over the years? I mean, you know, to ensure that the lives and the standard of the Nigerian worker has improved. I mean, was it working with 30,000-naira minimum wage? Some states have not implemented across the entire federation. Yeah. Nigeria is an opportunity to use such language, but I know that Nigeria has the prevalence of lawlessness at all levels of governance. The minimum wage of 30,000-naira processes that led to its enactments into law. Yet the same governments that participated in the process, and most of them have refused to implement it to the letter. It's unfortunate that that 18,000-naira minimum wage, the first one, was not implemented by them. Then the 30,000-naira was also not, then we'll go astray, like you had what happened in Kadina State and in some other states. But to continue engaging them at busy seats or not implementing our own law now, so that is a situation we have found ourselves as workers and as citizens of a lawless country. It's unfortunate, but we want to do something. All right, please, Onyeka. We have the ASU chairman, University of Lagos chapter here with us in the studios. And we were talking about other labor issues, specifically education and ASU strike, which has been on for over 75 days. And specifically, the vice president asked, you know, labor to intervene on ASU so that they could actually call off the strike. What's the position of the Niger labor congress on the ASU strike? The congress national leadership has already taken a position on the ongoing strike. It's an affiliate. And ASU has reported the federal government. Energy has taken its conjunction with ASU by some demands, which has been sent to the asking energy to intervene now. It's actually some federal government. So the federal government knows what we have asked them to do. That is not new to anybody. And every Nigerian, we have seen the truth about with ASU in Nigeria, any education is concerned in the Nigerian journey. Students are affected, affected. So it's our responsibility will be restored. So it's for my glory. That is the position of the energy. All right. I mean, quickly on this one, I mean, labor has been accused of several compromise. And that is why you have, I mean, including ASU, the strike's been very prolonged over time. So it feels like you call off the strike one minute. You say there's going to be a strike action two days after, three days after the strike is called off. Government gets into an agreement over time. They don't implement it. People, I mean, you have quoted saying that there's been a compromise on the pattern. That's why the government has never respected because they feel like they would always go back in bed with ASU. I really don't know. But how do you defend this? I didn't hear that. I didn't hear that one very well. So that, I mean, you have a school of thought saying that ASU, let's just say labor now has been compromising over time. Labor and the federal government, you have them getting in bed. And that's why you don't really have results. Even when you have labor and back in and strike, for instance, you have ASU now on strike. Government is not even blinking an eyelid, even though they're having conversations. I mean, you can see what's even going on. The strike has been prolonged. We're talking about issues that would have been implemented over how many years ago up until this moment. Some people are saying it's because labor have compromised over time with the government. Most of the time, when you talk about compromise, it asks yourself, for how long can you continue compromising? There is always a point when you say, I will no longer move backwards. There is always a really visible person with ASU has reached that point where it can no longer- So are you saying that you're out of time with the decay in the discussion? We have all this to that level. All right, Chris. Hello, Chris. Just I'm hungry. I just want to get Mr. Ashur's comment. I will come back to you to talk more about this is your version of course, other issues containing the Niger worker. Let's talk about all of this now. In the news today, we read that the NLC is going to vote only worker-friendly government or candidate or aspirant. What is ASU doing? Because right now there is 2023. That's what's on the lips of most government administrators. Most times they have actually put some governance to the back door. What is ASU doing this time around to ensure that come 2023, it will not be business as usual. You see, the position of ASU politically is clear. And the position is that we are not seeking accommodation nor compromises within this discapitalist system that we are currently running. What ASU desires is a complete system change along socialist lines. We believe that irrespective of who becomes what in 2023, if the system remains the way it is, we'll be back to gram zero. And President Andrew Lucian Gwampasangir once told us that even if you bring a large disaster crisis to rural Nigeria, it will fail. So that tells you that the position of our union is vindicated. We believe that unless we change this system as it is presently, irrespective and look at, let's start with political parties. The two so-called dominant political parties are the same. How do they stand apart? Look at the fluidity. Somebody can be a PDP member in the morning and by 6 p.m. is already an APC member. There's no way in the world you run a political a democratic system in that manner. The parties are bereft of ideas. There is no guiding ideology. The dramatist personnel, they have remained the same over the years. Nobody is held accountable to party manifesto. It is individuals now that funds the party and consequently they are able to take over the party. There's cult of personality. You can go on and on. So the position of our union is what we desire is a system change. And we are going to work with the mass of the people, organized labor, artisans, market women and all that. Already we have a political arm of our union, what we call the separate center for popular education. We believe that it is by educating Nigerians and making them understand that whether it is APC or PDP or PWD or whatever, as long as the system remains the same, the way it is capitalist, neocolonial, dependent, the society will only be ruled by this coterie of elites. I'm afraid we can get back to you. We actually have spent so much time on this. Thank you to you. Chris is a member of the Niger Labor Congress and he joined us to discuss some pressing issues concerning labor matters and indeed ASU. And of course back here in the studio we had Chairman ASU, University of Lagos chapter. Thanks for being a part of this conversation. Thank you very much for this invitation. We really appreciate your support in enlightening the public about our travels. Thank you very much. All right, thank you so much indeed. Again, Chris Onyeka, it is still the breakfast. Thank you so much. Yeah, it is our pleasure. Yeah. It is the breakfast and lost TV Africa away from labor matters in a moment when we return to be looking at the essence of an ideal portray. It is a public holiday and Muslim brothers are celebrating. We will come and work with them in a moment to join us again.