 As the race for 2023 presidency gains momentum, others declare intentions to run. Adam Al-Garabat II is joining us live to speak on his presidential aspirations and an intra-party group in the all-progressive Congress, APC, falls postponement of the party's convention and seeks replacement of the Boone-led committee. This is Plus Politics. I'm Mary Annaclop. The upcoming 2023 presidential elections have been shadowed to hold on the 25th of February in 2023. This was stated by the Independent National Electoral Commission, INIC. As this date draws closer and is already less than a year away, several aspirants have begun moves to clinch the sits come next year. One of such persons is Adam Al-Garabat, a former presidential candidate under the all-progressive Congress, APC. Recently, it was reported in the news that he visited former head of state, Ibrahim Babangida, for his support and blessings while he joins us tonight to discuss his aspirations. It's good to have you join us, Mr. Garabat. Thank you very much, Mary. Great. Good to connect with you, too. Great. I mean, you're not a newcomer to this game, obviously, and you first decided to run in the last elections, and now you're here again. Why exactly are you running for the office of president? Yeah, it is because to fundamentally transform Nigeria from its roots. You know, naturally, in every situation or every system, there are levels where you can reach when you need to engineer and reinvent your own processes and systems so that you can be able to be in tune with each other in time. And over time, I think since 1989 that we have the current Constitution that brought us into 1999 and to this present day. So many structural issues have happened in this country where we refuse to bring them into the system of governance so that every other person in Nigeria can feel belong, can feel a member of the Nigerian system, and can also be able to contribute successfully to the development of the Nigerian state. So unfortunately, we have some group of leaders that their thought process somehow seemingly expired or maybe is not in tune with changing time. So the best solution is to have a new way of doing things, a new approach to a modern era, 21st century model whereby each and every Nigerian can become a principal stakeholder in the Nigerian project. And that is actually one of the main reasons why I'm standing in and we started consulting all over the country to see the fact that we sell our vision of a new, transformed market oriented Nigeria so that every other citizen can belong into the setting. So we've visited so many key stakeholders to be able to advocate our interest so that we can be able to have blessings of our fathers as they transition out within the political terrain we now come in to be able to shine a new Nigeria for every Nigerian. Now you talk about a market oriented Nigeria, what exactly does that mean? And then you talk about transformation, what sort of transformation does Nigeria need at the time? Because I always say that it's a herculean task to lead any country, let alone Nigeria. But when you talk about market oriented Nigeria, please break that down for me. Yeah, you see the problem is, since the amalgamation of Nigeria in 1914, the main reason for the amalgamation is the resource of Nigeria, where the colonial masters want to benefit from principally oil, groundnut, cocoa, and other critical commodities that are very good in the industrial era, especially the second industrial era where industrialization is driving the successes of our markets. And when we got independent, Nigeria has been significantly a market extracting economy. Nigeria was designed from conception to be a market, not a political entity, as we used to see it. Because if you go back to even pre-colonial era, the main organization that is running the Nigerian state is called the Royal Niger Company. It is even from that Royal Niger Company that we drive and then we call Nigeria. And this Royal Niger Company is run by a Briton called Sergeant Goldie that metamorphosed into the U.S.C. and the Unilever that we see today. It means that the main benefit of bringing Nigeria together was to extract market opportunity as opposed to political opportunity. But unfortunately, after the independence of political leaders decided to over politicize the polity, whereby you have the Eastern region, the Northern region, and the Western region coming together to extract resources to their various destinations, disintegrating the country politically. Because from that, three regions will grow into 12, to 19, to 24, to 30, and now to 36 or 37 states. All those things are what break us together, bring about ethnic divisions, religious divisions, sectional, regional divisions in a country that is otherwise supposed to be one unit of market. Whereby if you have a market from North to South East and West connecting together, nobody will even want to look at the differences in between also. So we believe Nigeria was principally designed to be a market economy, not a political economy. And any president that is coming to lead this country into the 21st century should pay attention to the values of this market integration as opposed to political integration. We can successfully be able, as you rightly asked about the transformation, we can successfully be able to decentralize our politics. Because this is the region that came together with different beliefs, different religions, different five different ethnicities, different thinking, different approaches to doing things. So these differences are our realities and it's something we have to accept as our sincere making. So with that, we can allow each and every region to run its own political thinking and its own political process and political engineering in a single market. This is not just obtainable in Nigeria. Countries like Indonesia have about 800 different tribes sitting in 600 different or 6,000 different islands, speaking different language and with different approaches to things and different region. Yes, because of paying attention to market, they are one nation. Even China, similar case in India, we have about 600 different tribes, but they are now integrated as one India. Why? Because what connects them together? What the market that they share between them, not the politics that divides them. So what we need to do is to pay attention to the market that connect us, not the politics that divide us. But how do you look at the marketing strategy on its own, isolatedly? Yes, of course, we buy and sell. I mean, we feed ourselves in this country. The food comes from both the north, the south. We enter, even into Mario, but that is not the issue. The issue here is can we just talk about the marketability of Nigeria and not address the core issues that you've mentioned as ethnic colorations, religious differences? If we don't start that conversation, when will we do it? Because I don't see, I don't know, you might correct me. If we only focus on the marketing part of Nigeria and we don't discuss the issues that are at the core of our problems. How do you even intend to market that country to anybody? You see, the whole challenge around that, critically, is having a political organization of the country. I mentioned to you that the politics itself is something that we have to consider, especially in the area of understanding the sincere differences that we share in the country today that are called Nigeria. For instance, in northern part of Nigeria and southern part of Nigeria, eastern, western, and the center of Nigeria, there are different political understandings in the way things are done. So the best solution is to respect these political differences as part of Nigeria. Not discard them completely, simply because they don't kind of, some part of the country don't believe in them. But again, the most significant part of every societal evolution, especially in the state making, is its own market. Most revolutionaries, especially in China, for instance, when Chairman Mao decided to focus extensively on political integration of China, he ended up killing as much, or maybe people ended up dying to the tune of almost 40 million without achieving this integration until then's your ping. You know, came and now brought China into the market system. What eventually makes society grow is when they began to see the fundamental value of existence with one another. If I know that as a person who is coming from the south, I know that my brother from the north is integrated politically, systematically into the market system that benefits me. I will not see the difference in between us. What makes United State today more united is not because they are politically integrated. It is because they know the value that they get from each and every actor of a fellow US citizen. So that is why market integration is a strategic model of the economic state grounds. If you don't pay attention to the business integration between component units of a diverse state like Nigeria, you will always be struggling around ideals of trying to politically unite and otherwise will naturally divide the city. OK, let's talk about, since you're looking at, you know, blurring those lines, let's talk about zoning and power rotations, because if we're talking about carrying everybody along, then you should obviously know that the conversation about zoning is about federal character and making sure that everyone feels part of the polity. So what's your take on zoning and power rotation, because that's a hot topic now? You see, it's actually a very hot topic. And I believe that zoning was created by founders, the founding fathers, I can say, of this modern democracy as a way to ensure every other member of the country or every other group from north to south is able to participate in leading the nation. However, just unfair it may look, it does not really translate into the value for ordinary Nigeria. If you notice in this country from 1999 to date, you have two presidents come from the north and two presidents come from south. When the first president come from the south, you have OPC and major Delta military that brought about killing of so many people in the south. And so many problems again comes to happen from the south. Even though we have the president coming from the south, still you have a lot of poverty, you have a lot of disenchantment, you have a lot of suffering, you have a lot of opportunities for so many young people, not because, even though the president come from the south, but the south did not break fit from the president coming from there, other than the political feeling that this man is coming from our zone. If you come back to the north, we have Yadadua who was the first president that came during this 1999 season. And before he died, we had Boko Harah. And suddenly we know how president Muhammad Uguahari who come from the north, now he's still leading, we have bandits. So when you look at this, you will see that the north has suffered more, you know, so much marginalization, what does this have to do with the power rotation? I mean, these things would always be, these things have always been there, it has nothing to do with the rotation. I'm asking this because Inosna is about to finish eight years. And many persons believe that for equity's sake, the power needs to move to the south, but you're Inosna and your vines are the same office. So why are you still contesting? No, you see, the thing is that right, Mary, having non-competent structure around entitlement is what breaks, not makes the country. Majority of the agitations we are seeing today in Nigeria is because our man and their man, my people and their people, us, that is them. And what amplify this us versus them scenario is actually this whole money that we import on ourselves that create a line between the red... Why didn't we have this conversation? Why, I understand where you're coming from. It should not be us versus them, but unfortunately that's where we are. And for us to be able to douse that tension, why can't we allow for the people who say it's their turn to vie for those offices? I mean, are you saying that there are no competent people in that section of the country to lead the people, whether it's an us versus them? And when they are there, we can now start having this conversation of, oh, well, let's look beyond the fact that we're just North and South in terms of rotation. Let's look at we the people of Nigeria, but doesn't it seem unfair to start having that conversation like, oh, let's look beyond zoning and power rotation and see how we can be Nigerians? Doesn't that seem unfair when it's the turn of the South? No, let me explain to you this, right? You see, I'm not saying that they are not competent people but somebody cannot come and be contesting from the South on the basis that he's coming from the South. Somebody should not be contesting for Nigerian president from the North on the basis that he's coming from the North. Nigerian presidents should be somebody that is given a proposition that is agreeable, acceptable, and that will add value to each and every Nigerian. That is the only way we can move forward as a quantity. We can be a single country along different lines of division that was done by colonial masters for a divided rule to keep thriving because it seems like we're imposing the divided rule. If somebody is coming from the South, his target should be that I have this proposition for the betterment of growth and development and value addition to the Nigerian state. Isn't that supposed to be the perspective of any presidential candidate? I don't know of any president, just as you said earlier on, that you've had presidents from the North and then the North was suffering. You've had presidents from the South and the South was suffering. I do not know. I do not remember any presidential candidate who has come to say, I've come for my people in the South or I've come for my people in the North. I do not think that that should be the purview of any political aspirants. I don't know if you know of any. If you follow through the news, you'll see it very, very clearly. Southern governor's forum are driving the line and said that the president must come from the South, either party has come from the South. Isn't that because they believe that it's the turn of the South for the power to be sown to the area? And in the North, there are a group of people that are saying that since we are the largest amount of voters, the president must come from the North. So you have this kind of issue. Why the confusion within the system? And for us to be able to address this confusion and be able to deliver value for Nigeria, not the elite arrangement, because this South and North arrangement is principally elitist arrangement to keep extracting from the common man. Why can the common man say, I am tired of seeing a president as a North or South, East or West, Muslim or Christian, but I want to see a Nigerian president. I want to vote for somebody that is giving me value, not somebody that I am voting because he comes from X or Y. So are you the man for the job? Are you the man for the job of uniting Nigerians? Are you the man? Do you think that you're the one who could change that narrative and bring a new kind of perspective to Nigeria? 100% why did I say so? Because I want to accept Nigeria's realities. You know, one of the biggest problem with first is that we have been living in the ideal setting whereby I should be defined for something that is not me. You should be defined as something that is not you. Meanwhile, that thing that is you is something that we should respect and mainstream into Nigeria. Not something that is not you that we seem to want to impose on you. And that now becomes the problem that we see today in Nigeria. All the agitation that we see, for instance, the South is a ground agitation in the Northeast. In the Northeast, they say they need a Sharia and the South is they say they need a Biafra. Why are they agitating? Most principally, if you look at the agitations, they may sound as anti-state, but this is an agitarian agitation of people wanting to be identified as who they are. Why can Nigerians accept them for what they are? Why do you want to impose something that is not someone despite the fact that that person is projecting what he wants to be identified as? Similarly, when you come to the North, it's the same thing. So what we need to do is to accept our sincere realities and find a configuration that should be able to accommodate and mainstream this our realities so that our values, our morals, our tradition, our culture, our morals can be represented at the center, not some certain kind of divisions that is imposed upon us that eventually don't give us what we need. And that is why I believe the only way to unite Nigeria as is done in every other country, I mostly give example with Russia that is currently at war. Russia in Russia, you have even a country inside Russia. Tartar stand for instance, about 22 of that countries. Tartar stand have a president and a parliament all within the Republic of Russia. So you, because they accepted the Tartar stand language, tradition and values in a complete federation called Russia. Why can't you look at Nigeria in this kind of configuration or life? I really don't know if Russia is a very good example right now but let's move on to other things. Now many people believe that people like you do not stand the chance and you have a lot of critics I must say. They think that you don't stand a chance at all but that people like you are quick to come forward to get publicity and name recognition. What's your reaction to those critics? Yes, when people are reacting to this, I think it is the same thing that people reacted to so many other presidential contenders in so many other countries until they become. I think most notably President Trump who was treated as the joker. So you see these things usually happen all over the world. Anybody that is presenting himself for the public office should be ready for public criticisms and definitions. And that is what I have already developed and it takes skin on. I have been on this thing since 2017. In fact, I've started studying to do this thing since 2003. I have faced so many criticisms, so many condemnations, so many attacks but I knew exactly what I am trying to offer to Nigeria and so that will not deter me except if I'm doing it for the sake of satisfying my own self, then I should get out because some people are saying no to me. But the fact that I'm doing it for the benefit of the whole country, for the children and giving back this world for the friends, for the family, for the generations of Nigerians to come, then I should not be deterred by some of the few criticisms that might be arising. So that's why you see I'm still standing strong. I'm still here. I'm still going to continue. I'm still not going to delay and I'm going to win. Interesting. Let's talk about other masses. You seem to be a very controversial being now. And I'm sure I'm asking this question on behalf of a lot of people. Why did you support the Twitter ban? Why I supported the Twitter ban was simply because Twitter was mistreating or causing a lot of issues on our internet space. How so? So many fake news is flying on top of Twitter as a den and nobody is doing anything possible to seems to control the flow. And the second thing is that the owner of Twitter, Jack Dosey, decided to become interested in Nigerian politics. He's trying to be an INEC, trying to control who should be voted or voted for in the Nigerian state. And also- How was Jack able to do this? Because I don't remember Jack being part of the 2019 elections or the 2015 elections. Yes, not today. I was trying to be INEC. And just to quickly, I'm sorry, just hang on. You said that Twitter, a lot of fake news and propaganda is flying over Twitter. I love a lot of fake news and propaganda. But then I think that if you did your homework pretty well, you would understand that there's more fake news on WhatsApp and Facebook. Why wasn't Facebook or WhatsApp banned? Why was it Twitter? And why did it happen at the time why Mr. President's tweet was taken down? No, no, no, no. I didn't see Mark Zuckerberg or any other platform provider talking about Nigerian politics. But I see Jack goes between the same. In fact, if you- What exactly did Jack say about Nigeria's politics? Some of the things that sent him even away from the vote of Twitter was because of his direct involvement in so many politics of different states. Like which one? He was involved in politics of India. He was involved in politics of the United States. He was involved in politics of Nigeria. Well, we're not interested in the United States. I wanna know what politics involvement Jack had in Nigeria. Which states was involved in what politics? Jack dosing seems to be amplifying everything that is anti-Nigerian and blocks some things that is done for Nigeria. Every other person that is trying to talk about Nigeria and Nigerian state, Jack dosing Twitter will now suspend it. But when people are insulting Nigeria, pushing bad pictures, bad videos and creating tension, dosing still find a way to live it. So it is very clear that that platform at that time was not objective enough about Nigeria and therefore it should stop functioning with the compromise. And thank God they have complied. They've come on board and now they're having... We've still really not heard anything officially from Twitter. The government keeps saying they've complied. To what exactly? Why haven't we seen a tentative report on that compliance and Twitter statements? I haven't seen anything to support the federal government's claim. It was on the internet you can search and see if Twitter has complied with all the requests of the federal government. Only from our government. I haven't seen a statement signed by Jack or the Twitter headquarters. No, Jack is no longer the CEO of Twitter. Well, I said Twitter headquarters. So I haven't seen anything in that regard. But Jack is no longer the CEO of Twitter. We know this. It's public knowledge. If you look at the new CEO of Twitter, he even tweeted about it. Thanking Nigerian government for allowing them to operate once and promising to be able to comply. So has Twitter registered with the Corporate Affairs Commission in Nigeria? Do you know about this? Because that was one of the terms. You can't settle a company immediately. There are some procedures that needed to be passed. But I'm sure Twitter is passing through this procedure. I'm sure now Twitter is very low-abiding, responsible stakeholder in Nigeria. So they will do everything possible to grow Nigeria economy alongside all other companies that are willing to grow Nigeria economy. So will your support of the Twitter ban do you think it would, one way or the other, enhance or maybe mar your chances in the bid that you are moving on? I mean, you're trying to get... In fact, two years ago, because the fight has brought Twitter, Nigeria, into Twitter and Nigeria Limited, has brought job into Nigeria, has brought tax into Nigeria, and has brought base into Nigeria. So before now, Twitter was not empowering Nigerian young people. Do you know how many billions were lost as a result of the shutdown of Twitter? Before now, Twitter decided to go and settle the office in Ghana, for God's sake, Ghana. They have left them two million users. It's their business. It's their business. They decide wherever they want to go to. So I think the question we should be asking here is did Nigeria create, or has Nigeria created the enabling environment for businesses like Twitter to want to decide to locate their headquarters here. And I'm not in any way trying to demarket the country because this is my country, but I'm asking, do we make it easy for these kinds of companies to set up shop here? I think Facebook is in Nigeria. I'm coming. If Facebook is in Nigeria, Microsoft is in Nigeria, Oracle is in Nigeria, SAP is in Nigeria, Google is in Nigeria. Why is Twitter not in Nigeria? It means that they don't care about the country. They only care about the country. Is it not their prerogative? Is it not a business? No, no, no. Don't they have a choice to locate their headquarters wherever they want to or their regional office? No, no, no. You see, I'm a professional in platform technology and I understand why, what are their decisions mostly, that what are the decisions behind them setting offices in different locations. Twitter simply because of the hatred for the success of Nigeria, decided to site a Nigerian opposing country. But now we force them to enter our country. You make it sound like Twitter has a personal issue with Nigeria and they really don't want us to... One day, just those... What do they stand to gain? Twitter has personal issues with Nigeria, but now Twitter is... And you know this for sure because they told you? And we love them for that. And you know this for sure because you've had a conversation with Twitter and they told you in confidence that they have hatred that they do. Because JADOC is directly involved in Nigerian policies and that is not on this business. Okay, now, leaving Nigeria, like I said to you earlier on, it's not a walk in the park. And like I said, why should anyone want to vote for you or even look in your direction? Again, let's not forget that you're a young person and 80%, if not 60% of the people that in Nigeria's population are young people. How do you intend to get young people to be part of the ideology that you are putting out there and the reason why you're asking people to support you for this candidacy? You see, the way we are trying to do is to sensitize young people. Nigeria has passed through a very long journey and since 1970, since 1970 till now we are still running the same system using the same people in the Nigerian state. There has not been any fundamental thinking or thought process in the way things are going to be done in this country. And we have different changes that happened in the world over and over again, but we seem not to adapt to these changes for us to be able to identify because of our growth. And that is why we have to do everything possible to study and understand how best we can be able to organize Nigeria and put it back to productivity, what is supposed to happen. How do you intend to get young people to believe in your candidature? That was my question. Yeah, the simple thing is for us to be able to market ourselves, to tell them what we have to offer, to be real, to be transparent, to be objective, to be open, to be straightforward in what we intend to do, no matter how disagreeable it appears. We cannot be a 20th century politicians where you can tell people what they want to hear. We have to tell them the fact and be open and sincere because we believe this is the new kind of leadership that should come into the system. And if young people want the best for Nigeria, then they have no candidate, no better person as open, sincere, straightforward, factual, and driven by purpose or good leadership and that is why I believe that young people should look into this direction. We should accept ourselves for who we are, not try to force something that is not us on ourselves. So in accepting who we are, we stood up, young people, including you and I now, young people stood up to fight against police brutality which ended up as the NSAS protest which also led to the Lehki massacre. What's your view on that? You see, I am a pioneer member of NSAS. We started doing NSAS since 2017 under Mr. Shagun Awosanya, the popularly known Saga language. When this NSAS started in 2020, I was a very strong supporter of NSAS, posting and trending NSAS. Eventually, we began to see international interest in the rising of ordinary young people for the betterment of their hunting. The international actors want to hijack the protest with the intention of creating more rankable and becoming a joint system. And the best way to do that is to try to stop the international actors from penetrating our local politics. Who are these international actors that you're making reference to? The international actors organizations that I Twitter and some international people that are not interested in United Nations. Is Twitter responsible? Is Twitter, or was Twitter responsible for the police brutality? I'll tell you what. You started NSAS in 2017. I'll tell you what. It started in 2015, I'll tell you. It started in 2015 when police officers of the size unit were killing people and throwing them into ditches in river state. It was happening in several places. Just let me educate you. So was Twitter the one pushing these police officers to take phones, to take monies, to rob Nigerian young people, to tell them how to dress? If they have dreadlocks, they're taken by police officers and said they're said to be Yahoo Boys. If a young person was driving a nice car, they had to take his money, his laptop. Was it Twitter that was at the core of that problem? Because I see a pattern here. You seem to blame everybody outside the country and fail to blame the people within the country. Why is it that? You see, that is why I told you that I was a principal supporter of NSAS simply because I believe police brutality caused a lot of damages to this country. There are so many things that you guys are not even seeing. Because you paid attention to protocol references and some issues in Legos, where I was also a member there. Sometimes I used to back my laptop with my bag under a cage or under a bridge. I was taken down by some SARS official and they took over all everything on my pocket in 2008. So I want you to know this thing very clearly that even the problem that we are facing with Banditry kidnapping and some aspect of Boko Haram crisis in the North East Hall but in the same SARS. So this police brutality is a national issue. It's not just even a sectional issue. Most of these Fulani guys that are doing Banditry, if you ask them, they will tell you that the police came, killed them, destroyed them and stole their kitten. If you go back to Boko Haram, they say they were extradited. We have to go. Usually killed by the police people and that's why they reacted. So when you look at this, it's a national issue and that's why I'm supporting a very strong supporter but I will not want any international interest in the agitation for N-SARS because it's for Nigerian people for the benefit of Nigeria's growth. Adam Magaraba is a presidential aspirant on the All Progressive Congress. We want to appreciate you for being part of the conversation. Thank you so much for coming. Thank you very much. I really appreciate you. All right. Thank you all for staying with us. We'll take a short break now. When we return, we discuss the upcoming All Progressive Congress Convention with a chieftain of the party. More when we return.