 As Nigeria is getting ready for the 2023 presidential elections, former President Goodluck Jonathan says he's undecided and rejects the all-progressive Congress presidential form bought for him by a Northern group. And court has set aside the Judgment Voiding Section 84, Subsection 12 of the Electoral Act of 2022. And President Buhari has ordered ministers running for the office or any office to resign. This is Plus Politics, and I'm Mary Anacom. Former President Goodluck Jonathan has rejected a presidential nomination form bought for him by a Northern group in Nigeria. Jonathan described the purchase of the form without his consent as an insult. In a statement by his spokesman, Ike Chiku Ezei, Jonathan also said that he has yet to decide whether to seek the re-election on the platform of Nigeria's current ruling of Progressive Congress. His spokesperson, Mr Ezei, however, said in a statement that the former president was not consulted before the form was bought. Joining us to discuss this is Upanabal Incultara Political Analyst, and Izekal Nyaituk is also a Political Analyst and a Politician. Thank you gentlemen for joining us. Thank you. Great. Good evening Nigeria. I'll start with you Upanabal. Goodluck Jonathan has, for the past few months there have been speculations as to where his political leanings lie, whether he's loyal to the old Progressive Congress, and there are also those who are wondering when the former president had left the People's Democratic Party to join the APC. These are questions and speculations that led to people saying that he might be running for the office of the presidency. We saw videos, we saw pictures that somewhat were pointing in that direction, even though most of them were not factual. But we are here today having this conversation. I think my first question is, when did the president move to the APC? Yes, I'm asking, when did President Goodluck Jonathan move to the APC? Even when, or why, you're sorry? When? When? Well, I'm not aware of this, and I'm not aware that Goodluck Jonathan has defected to the APC. All we get is in the realm of speculations. And the president himself has not come out to say he has defected to the APC. And I'll list him to what the chairman of the APC, Bahia Kasim, said. The president may not be made a director, because if you have to defend yourself, of course, it's not from your work, although a lot of defendants rush to Asura just to ingratiate themselves with Mr. President and make a show of their defection, like what panic has they did, which is actually incongruous and wrong, because if you have to register from your work level, you're put in unit. So the chairman of the APC said the president is not yet their member. That was what he said. So I don't, and the president himself has not come out to say he has defected, not even his media aid has said so, as alluded to that part. So I, for now, I don't think it's a president or the former president, Goodluck Jonathan, has defected to the APC. I don't think so. I infuse that. If a man of that class should defect from one political party to the other, of course, he needs to suffuse the air with such a story. The air is on the air, we suffuse with such a story. So I certainly don't think they have defected. Maybe he's still moaning the idea. Maybe he's still commutating upon it. Depending on their accommodation, he's going to reach with Mr. President, as I'm talking of who I am right now, depending on the kind of accommodation, the kind of compact you are going to have, probably. And I think they rush to buy the form for him in order to beat the deadline. So they eventually can put him in. To be eventually suffixed to the call, the plumber, for him to contest. Unless it must be that the form will be an impediment. So I think that will guide the rush to get the form. They have also apologized. I think he messaged them with each of them one. I don't know how he expressed his anger, and they also apologized. So right now I cannot authenticate if you say, if President Moon of Jonathan is a member of the APC, or the President of the APC, or remains a member of the APC. Mr. Ngaitok, we've seen this trend of buying forms for certain persons. I mean, the most interesting is the one that was bought for the President of the AFDB. And the story of the fact that they've been trying to contact him, and they've not been able to get in touch with him. Why do you think that there's all of a sudden that special urge to buy people forms, whether or not these people are interested in running for that office? And why is it just people within the all-aggressive Congress that are buying forms for people who are either members or non-members of the party? The very first thing is that I think we Nigerians need to sit down and really think about ourselves again. There are certain things that people do to you, and you have to sit down and ask yourself certain questions, because there's a way you present yourself, and they talk to you anyhow. There's a way you are in an office, even as a lady, and people treat you with respect, because your courage is such that people know without even saying a thing, talking about body language, that you are a non-nonsense person. Nigerians, especially those of us that call ourselves professionals, that call ourselves the elites, that call ourselves the intellectuals, we really need to wonder why we are being treated the way that we are being treated by politicians. What am I saying in all these things? There are certain body language that have come to characterize the political mien of the politicians. One of that is, you know, my people want me to. You know, it's a popular opinion. It means we really don't understand the fundamentals of leadership. Leadership in certain offices, like the office of the president, or office of the governor, or office of the local government chairman, which should be, but unfortunately is not. There are offices of maximum service that have to come from a certain level of passion that you have, a certain level of something that drives you. When people are pushing you to do something, it calls to question if that is the way our politics should be. But could that also not be that people have seen something in you? I'm sorry to talk over you. Does that not also mean that maybe the people have seen something in you, or seen that you have done great in certain other areas? For example, the AFDB president. Some people may have seen that, look, this man has done great in all of the offices that he's held, and we think that he would do great as a president. I'm not in any way campaigning, but I'm saying to you, could that also be the reason why people are pushing? Maybe you're tinkering on it, and then there are people who are saying, let's help you push you to that level. I'll tell you this. If you are a man of principles, nobody will go behind you to put certain responsibilities on you. What they will do is come to you, and then you will reason with them. And when you are convinced that you want to do this, you do it because you... Apologies, Mr. Nyaito, are you still there? Sorry. Go ahead. We lost you for a second. OK, can you hear me now? Yes. Yes. When it comes to my people, secondly, we know that these forms are paid for by the people behind. But they want to show that they are very popular. They want to show that they are wanted by their people. Now, look at the forms that most of these governors and the rest are saying, oh, they bought for me. I want you to do a profiling of the people that bought these forms. And let us see those who contributed to get it done. At the end of the day, it's just for me. It's just the way that we play this game. That doesn't make sense. Let's go to the people that bought the form for President Jonathan. Let's go to interrogate the people that bought the form. Let's look at the bank accounts of these people. You just realize that maybe one man somewhere wants to make a point. Either Mr. President's person wants to taste the waters or somebody else who should have respect enough to ask Mr. President, sir, we want to do this for you. So what do we do? So head or tail, there's something that is just not ethical about all these issues of they bought the form for me. Doesn't make sense. I don't buy it. I will come back to you to talk about some other things that some other speculations about why President, former President Goodlock Jonathan is even in this conversation. But let me come back to you upon our board. The former president was seen on Monday night at the home of the national president of the All Progressive Congress. There were pictures that were published on, I think, Monday night when he paid that visit to, reportedly visited Adamo's residence. Two politicians were, the two politicians were actually photographed beaming with smiles to the camera. The visit actually lasted just a few hours. After the Miety-Ala cattle wearers, a fuller need to bought that nomination form, an expression of interest form for 100 million Naira. Even though former President Goodlock Jonathan's office issued a statement denying that he has joined the party, but the question's still linger. What was he doing at the house of the national chairman or the national, yes, national chairman of the APC as a member of the People's Democratic Party? Does that not count as an anti-party? Well, that's not from us. I don't know why you would say that. Without the basis of the facts of that discussion, that the member of the PDP does not really cannot visit any member of the agency. It's fair to cut across, but nevertheless, it became an issue because of the rumor that it's rending the air right now. That's why that visit is now an issue. And like I said earlier, Jonathan's denaturalism, procrastination, whether he was going to contest or not, also gave room for all these conditions and speculation. Probably he went there, won the chairman's invitation, made you to also convince him to contest. Well, probably he was there in order to cross the T's and dot the I's. And the rear saw that should he confess to these two is having the win that he's definitely getting better. The consensus candidate, where will all be guessed? Because we don't have the facts of the meeting. What should he transfer and that meeting? So I think it's not unconnected with the purchase of the form and the presidential ambition. I think it's not unconnected. Because I have a strong conviction that it has a nexus with it. But whether it is anti-party or not, you can only accuse him of anti-party activities when you have the facts that he's not there to betray the PDP. But when you say anti-party, again, if a man is defective from a political party to another political party and that same person is negotiate his defection. I don't think that is anti-party, no. It's not anti-party. Anti-party could be like somebody that is in mood in a party. For example, we are discussing on how we are going to win party A and the man takes that as discussion out to party A for disclosure. Then you can say anti-party. But if Genadal is moving, if it is generally going to defect from the PDP to the ATC and is negotiating, confabulation is going on, you cannot accuse him of anti-party because he has not gone there to sell the PDP to ATC. So I don't think he can be accused of anti-party. So why do you think that the... Because I wanted to ask Ms. Ngay, I took that question, but I'll start with you. Why do you think that President Johnson, whether he's... We're not in his mind. We can't tell. We're not in his inner... We would love to be a fly in the wall, by the way, to hear what's going on in his home. But why all of a sudden has he become a subject in this 2023 presidential race? Why is he in the conversation? Because the speculations belts up to now saying, oh, he might be running on the platform of the APC. But then there have also been those who have kicked against the idea, former President Goodlock Jonathan running for the office of the president. Maybe I do not know what side of the divide that you agree with, whether you think it's a good idea for him to be running, meaning that the South is saying it's our turn, whether it's the Southeast, whether it's the South South, or the Southwest, the South is saying it's our turn. Why do you think that he would even want to consider running? But for those who are saying he shouldn't, do you think that they're right? And what would be their reasons if there be any? Well, first of all, it is within the bias, within the right constitutionally to run. I don't think there is an integral contradiction that will stop him from running. Definitely. The National Committee of the United States is contested in contesting again in the next general election. We are here with our president that contests how many times are failed. I think as if he tried his luck in his world, I think that was him. I think he tried it as well and won. So I don't see anything wrong with President Goodlock Jonathan, we're contested. Although a lot of people are saying he's going to diminish his personality and so on, I have one, and the considering is international crowd, especially after he conceded to President Gouwaring, that placed him on a different pedestal and it is there that a lot of people go in. But then, why some persons are saying he should not contest is because then, for example, the APT, if Jonathan is going to defect to the APT, I can tell you that something has been wished. We would not want to go there and embarrass himself at the venue of the primary. I don't think he'll want to do that. And I think he'll want to step back up and that's why probably the negotiations are still going on. Now, I will say that if it also comes out, I cannot show you that he's going to be one of the strongest candidates, he's not the strongest candidate in the election because the majority of those who want to vote for Jonathan, not because they love Jonathan, but simply because they believe that Jonathan is just going to be helping for just another four years. And to be said that, the power should pay to the South and it has to go back to the North. They'll be able to, I'm definitely not going to be happy because they believe that right now it should be going to the Southeast and with Jonathan from the South-South, definitely it is going to truncate definitely there are impediments to the South system the South system that they make as a presidential candidate and eventually a president. So the South is definitely not going to be too happy with it. Then there are those with some liberal minds that believe that this man has earned his respect and he doesn't need to rubbish his reputation. Should he lose? What becomes of his reputation? But I don't believe in that. That to me is a difficult theory. I mean, nothing tries, nothing gains. Nothing fails, nothing gains. I think Jonathan needs to go in there. Now a lot of them do, I don't think God will say if Jonathan will contest that he's definitely going to support him and he's also not going to contest. Of course you must say, God must send the same thing. And a lot of other persons, even those that they get Jonathan in 2015 now have their regrets because of the cataclysmic leadership that we're expressing today in the country. The other general Muhammad is going in and this point for me to do a question on the general, he said he's the general general of my life. On the general Muhammad is going in and they compare it just so that they realize that the general's administration and that of Muhammad Muhammad is like seven of the different in claim. So for so many reasons, you are using some type of country to contest. Those that are saying they should not contest, most of them are for eccentric reasons because his ambition will definitely be negative in fact on their ambition. And so they don't want him to contest because of the crowd they have. So that's exactly, but whatever it is everybody can tell you there's opinion that's not the truth about it. Mr. Ngai Tok, my first question is, why is, why not contest on the platform of the People's Democratic Party, a platform that he wrote. No, no, the question is, I'm sorry, it's for Mr. Ngai Tok. Why is President Jonathan, if he were to contest, if you were interested, if he used to be part of this, why not the PDP secondly, how important is a good luck Jonathan ticket in 2023? And would really he be able to win the South South in 2023? Okay, I will look at it from a slightly different perspective. My first perspective will be the country Nigeria, the politics, the governance. There's so much of the politics, but politics takes a nation nowhere. Governors decide whether we are going to be the poverty capital of the world or a fast growing economy. We must draw a line between those two, politics and governance. In politics, which is the game of power, the South will be very unhappy with President Jonathan. He was president for eight years and he was the president of Nigeria. He was Pan-Nigeria. So if it comes back as president, he's going to be what favors the North because he's going to be a president for everybody. Now he's going to be there for four years and the South would have taken their turn. Then it goes to the North. Will we have a Northern president who is going to be a Pan-Nigerian like Jonathan? Or would we have had eight years of the North, four years of North-South and another eight years of the North again? It is on account of that, that the South is saying, this man, we thank you and everything for the politics, please wait. Let's get a Southern president who is going to be eight years from the South before it goes back to the North. Now that is the politics. So the North will be happy with the politics. The South will be unhappy with the politics. Let's come to the governance. In the Nigeria of today, Jonathan, my former president, Jonathan, has the good heart, which is good for leadership. He does not have the charisma, which is what is needed today. He does not have that thing that brings people, motivates people, gets people up and then gets them doing, gets them going. He doesn't have that. And we can't have, after eight years of President Buhari, we can't have another four years of a non-charismatic, non-visionary leader. He is visionary within a certain context of a nice guy. But we may need to have a man who is a root of some sort, because the global market right now needs somebody who is relatively bullish. And that man can be found in a man like President Buhari, President Obasanjo. Some days back, I was with President Obasanjo. And I said, my ogre is my boss. I said, so let me leak a secret I've never told you. It's true that I became the first Nigerian that got the Shelter of Freak facility by any state government. That is what people know. There's a back end to that story, which is what people don't know what helped me. Shelter of Freak knew that Nigeria was one of the largest investors and one of the longest and most supportive. And that no Nigerian, no state had benefited from the facility. They said, if something is not done, this man is going to withdraw from Shelter of Freak because President Obasanjo takes no prisoners. When Nigeria is not getting value for money, he's going to leave. So they were desperate to get a facility to Nigeria. So I entered and became a beneficiary of the man's bullishness and fear by the international community. For today, we need such a person. And I don't think that President, former President Abela Jonathan has it. Number two, we need somebody who is tech-serving. Somebody who understands the trends and he does not show me in the past eight years he was President that he really did that. Maybe over the years he has lent it, but that is taking a chance again. And finally, we have lacked international role models and figures. And after Nelson Mandela, I dare say that President Goodluck Jonathan is one African that is respected globally today. What is it coming for? For another four years, chance of being rubbish. So please, let him be where we are. Let us have that big figure nationally and internationally. And let us get a more vibrant person as a President. Okay, well, interesting. Finally, the ABC is closing its sailor forms as we speak. We've seen a lot more people rush to buy and submit their forms as the time is running out. And we don't see any green light coming from the area of President, former President Goodluck Jonathan. So now let's look at all that remains of those who are running for office. I mean, the President has today said all of these people need to, if you have to collect to run for any office and you hold a public office, then you need to resign. And go pursue your, you know, political ambitions. But what remains to be seen within the ABC as they gear up for their primaries in closing? Sorry, I didn't get your question. I'm asking, now that the sailor forms is coming to a close, we haven't heard anything from President Goodluck Jonathan. It means that the party is left with all those who have submitted their forms so far. What remains to be seen as the party gears up for their primaries come to the end of May? Well, the President has other, he who hired fire, the President has other, that all those that are interested in political office, electric office should resign, I think by the latest model they are there about. And they're all going to resign, not because they are legally found to resign, because the constitution said 30 days. If you remember this very program, this is the next task I told you, we'll be voided because it's a very large and steady consistent with the position of the constitution. They also have amended the constitution first before amending their next task. That is what Goodluck does. Remember when I told you that it took a couple of people to voided it? Although it differs a little on technicality, but it's still voided it, you know? It's an infusion on the rights of Nigeria. Pavel said this, what do you expect? Well, for the political housing perspective, what the political leaders will do, what they leave office right now, or what they resign, what they will do, is to rev up the political engine, because they will have that. A lot of them are not going to have to do this because we're going to concern the effects of the office, which they will be robbed of, what they leave, their security, probably between now, those who thought it was going to be for the 30 days to the election, between now and the 30 days are going to make more money, sign more contracts and so on. A lot of them think that we will definitely not be happy with it, but well, in life, we can't have all we want. So they'll just come and join the political party, actively now, and not just actively. Most of them will even be looking to their various things, those that are not in Abuja, to ensure that their party goes away to go to the election of those states. So it's going to be an interesting, actually it's going to be an interesting period. Quite interesting, I can tell you that. Well, I want to say thank you very much for now about Inko Tariah, Izikul and I took both political analysts. Thank you for being part of the conversation, we appreciate your thoughts. Thank you. All right. Well, thank you all for staying with us. We'll take a quick break and when we return, we will discuss the appeal court setting aside, a judgment voting or rather voiding section 84, stop section 12 of the electoral act of 2022. And of course, President Bahari ordering during the federal executive council that members of the council with political ambitions must resign on or before Monday next week. We'll be right back.