 Welcome back, it's still the breakfast on PLOS TV Africa, we're looking at education right now, we need years to continue today. Another round of crisis that may lead to another strike is looming in the public universities over the alleged inability of the federal government to conclude re-negotiations with the university's based unions on the 2009 agreement. This is as the senior staff association of Nigerian University Sanu has lamented that it has lost so many of its members as a result of the failure of the government to pay the full months of withheld salaries during the strike period. Recall that the four university-based union Sanu, the academic staff union of University of Zassu, the non-academic staff of Allied and educational institutions Zassu, and the National Association of Academic Technologists NAAT had last year shut down public universities over the inability of the government to attend to their demands. Now the Nigerian government has directed university lecturers under the Congress of University Kornwa to submit the details to the office of the accountant general of the Federation for the payment of their withheld salaries. Now these are made known in the letter dated January 13 and signed by the director of integrated personal and payroll information system department Charles Wally. The letter was addressed to the Kornwa president Obafemi Awolowo University chapter. Now joining us now to discuss all of this is Professor Sani Fage a political analyst. Many thanks for joining us Professor Fage. Thank you very much. All right it's as though there's no end in sight to the lingering issues of the devil and the nations on ivory towers. Last year the students were at home for over eight months because of a astros track we are all aware of that. Right now the information we hear is not really a chairing one. Sano is actually lamenting and they might be going on strike again. What is the way forward as it is now Professor Fage? The way forward is for the government to respond to the situation. You know the whole thing is that there was an agreement or there is still an agreement between the government and the various unions or in the university and the agreement was due for renegotiation and like that of ASU it has been you know dragging on since 2009 now which makes it now 14 years and the government will sit down and renegotiate with ASU and other unions and on the way forward sometimes the government will back off and start to bring in throwing hammer into the works and that is what causes the whole delay. Now the government has also created another potential problem which is they register a convo during the crisis while the government fully knows that way back I think in 2013 when an academic staff union of inter-university centers filed their application to be registered the same ministry said it was illegal for them to register a splinter union within any organization where there is an existing union. So you see that one created a lot of problem for government and now it's going to the problem will continue and the other thing now is the government which is on divide a rule tactics is now trying to say they are going to pay the splinter union that they created so I think this will compound the problem and the way out is for the government to sincerely come forward and discuss this issue and resolve it once and for all. Is there the border language you see and the willingness on the part of government to want to resolve this issue because last year sometime in December ASU threatened you know to take the federal government to court over the registration of convo and when the strike was called of last year you know what we hear was that no work no pay that's what we heard next and them lecturers were groaning that they've not been paid some arrears as it is right now but with this new development the federal government wanting to negotiate right now with convo and not ASU as it is don't you think it's actually a case of divide and rule? Yeah that's what I'm saying is a divide and rule which usually doesn't succeed you know it will correspond the inevitable that is you know coming together and resolving the problem between government and ASU for a while but it's not going to end the problem on the contrary it is going to compound the problem by registering that splinter group and now by saying they are going to work with that splinter group already I think some are even starting to say okay this is going to be a good thing for ASU because once the government decided to register to pay them then there is a legal basis for ASU to challenge the person and the other thing is the government knows very well that negotiation is the only way out and the most stable solution I mean permanent solution to the problem but the government it is on wisdom in order to delay the whole process went to court and get the court to compel ASU to go back to work and now we have covered the ground that we lost already some of us have even conducted exam you know we are on the verge of exam when we went for strike we have covered this and now we are trying to cover the past semester that we lost so I think with this doing the work in areas the government has not just viable reason to say that it is going to apply the no work no pay but whatever it is I think the stance that the government has taken will create more problems and compound the existing situation that because already if you look at the situations of universities the thing is drastically going down the standard is drastically going down I know of a department where over 80% of the lecturers have left so in this situation what do you think it's either you shut down the department or you go and hire new people and put them there which in any way will confirm the problem like I said so Professor Sani what then would be the implication of all of this I mean you have talked about the stance of government what is the bigger picture how does this affect the educational system and you know the bigger society at large yeah I think I think it is affecting the educational system it is also affecting the society at large but dragging the problem will affect it to move because now we are seeing we are having we have a chance to head of the potential problem at this moment if there is a sincerity of course if the government and the the union leaders will come together and sit down I think we can salvage it but by the time the government is dragging the process are necessarily it is going to be more dangerous and disastrous for the society because already now you see one of the things that also is talking about the issue of peace that is going to be increased and so on the government has been denying it but gradually you know some universities are now responding to what the government wanted them to do in terms of raising the peace and student groaning so you see now groaning eventually if this thing has not been addressed what is likely going to happen there will be a riot student riot all over the country and then it will be more dangerous we already have so many violent crises in deep you know on ethnic and religious basis you know but now when you add up with that of the student I don't think that will augur well for any government whether this one or the government that is going to succeed it all right so what should asu be doing in the immediate because somehow if you look at it their salaries are going to be paid in a way I mean the arrest although the government is not going to pay them through asu through their union but through another unit would you say it's a bit of a win situation in as much as they're getting paid but not through the union or what else can they possibly do asu that is no I think even if the government pays through the splinter union asu will not accept it because that is amounting a total repeat of us you know if you now create another union and say go and get your salary through that one I don't think asu will do it many people the way the government is has handled the thing will not join convo you see the option to many people is either they leave the service somewhere you know are on that position the other they leave the service if they are to be forced to join convo or to stay without a union but what I foresee is that paying it through convo like people are repeating is going to create mountains of problem for the system and that's like I said it's not going to over well for the system so at this point there's been a lot of conversation about having the private sector you know involved in the educational system do you think that this would go a long way in addressing these situations that were faced with um it will not because if you look at what happened what is happening now we say the education at lower level like from primary secondary level where you have a private sector heavily involved in that in this area it hasn't solved the problem what it did is to digest a lower standard because their concern is to gain it's an investment and they are there to gain so they are not very much concerned with the standard of the education that is once it secondly if you look at the average Nigerian about 80 or 60 percent of Nigerians are living below poverty now if you now put education what you are saying is you are automatically excluding the sons and daughters of the poor people and that will create the gap between the halves and the half note and eventually when you disenfranchise or you disempower a large chunk or segment of the society you are not creating a you are not putting a potential time bomb which when it explodes nobody will know i will know the end of it i mean knows the end of it all right go ahead mercy i mean just quickly i'd like to ask if it's possible to avoid another strike as a nation in terms of the educational sector now is it possible for us to avoid another strike yeah i'm optimistic that it is possible all it takes is for for the government now to sit down and negotiate what when you negotiate all the the thing that the union are asking is not something that you have to do it once in a day it's something that will take time to do like the funding of the system is something that it will take four years six years for you to put on the fund and the government is there you cannot destroy the educational system this is one of the implication you cannot describe destroy the system of education and you expect your country to develop as the same goes no nation develops above its level of education so the sooner the better for the powers to be a now to come down and think of this it is not something that is upright i think what is creating this thing is just a pride and see how people are finding the government that you are in power how can you be a challenge and so but even the military were willing to sit down and negotiate and here we are ironically this is a democratic government which is not it's more militaristic than even the military in terms of negotiating with the association so we have to look at the nation and the future of our children and we have to look at that one and forget all other things i can come down and sit down but i think to me the whole thing is the government is being prompted by powers outside we have a world bank and this is their own agenda and so the government is taking that one and that is why you see they took i they take a drastic u-turn remember before they were in power as the president and the minister of education and all the people now who are saying they will not negotiate or they will not pay this what they are outside the power they were pro-assu they they had the view that yes what asu and other unions are taking is this a patriotic concern to develop the educational sector and now that they are in power because they are doing the push and tell guided from outside they have taken a u-turn and i think uh the the sooner the better for all concern and the government and stakeholders too you know we shouldn't just be between us who i mean the union and the government's take all those two like the parents like the student and the other one wish uh were nigerians should come and intervene and see that this thing is resolved uh you know even in war situation all right right professor faggot negotiations speaking of negotiation as we round off on this conversation right now sanno uh just held them it's a 40-second national executive council and they are asking for the immediate or demanded the immediate resumption and renegotiation of the 2009 agreement let's lever the outstanding salaries for one moment we have talked extensively concerning that the other issues in the 2009 agreement are yet to be finalized as it is right now asu called off of its strike last year hoping that the negotiations would continue but it is right that nothing has actually or seemingly been done concerning some of the demands raised by asu sanno and the affiliated unions so as we round off now so what should we be doing in the immediate say you see what you should be doing is not only to use the negotiation as a delay tactics we should negotiate and then implement what has been negotiated for now this is the only way forward and i think the government has the key to it because they are the one who will negotiate and they are the ones who are going to implement it so like i said implementation takes time it is not like a one-year thing if you look at the seven demands of asu these are things that will have taken long you know the reason why we are able to succeed in 2009 was when the gerardua administration honestly negotiated and started implementing had it been the 2009 agreement has been implemented i don't think i will ever see strike of this nature there will be this agreement here and there but there there will not be a a nation nationwide strike like what is happening now all right thank you so much indeed we have been speaking with term professor sanifagi political analysts and we have been looking at all of the issues concerning asu sanno konawa utas and ipps as it is and of course the 2009 agreement will leave that conversation as it is right now thank you so much professor fagi thank you very much all right it's still breakfast on plus tv let's see where we head it after now well we'll definitely take a break and we're in real return we'll be looking at the issue of climate change all of the suggestion for adoption adaptation and what have you stick with us we'll be right back