 We're live. I'm Jay Fiedel. It's Monday morning at 10 o'clock Rock and this is Community Matters if you didn't know. And we have a special guest, Carol Cox. He's an environmental watchdog. And he's going to talk about some city issues here in Honolulu City and County of Honolulu. And some very interesting things have popped out to his attention. He's kind of an investigative reporter, I think, on these issues. Welcome to the show, Carol. Thank you, Jay. Thanks. Good to be here. Yes, sir. So let's talk first about the zoo. You mentioned there were issues about the zoo, its funding, and the departure of its director. Right. Well, we know that Dr. Baird Fleming is notified everyone that he's departing or leaving. He's quitting. Taking a job in Albuquerque, New Mexico. But there was a Prop 9, or Amendment 9, Constitutional Amendment 9, that the city... On the ballot. On the ballot in November of 8th. And what we learned now through emails that we got recovered on the UIPA of FOIA, we learned that he had met with the mayor on the 31st of October of this year to notify the mayor and his managing director, Roy Almamea, that he was leaving, had intentions of leaving. That was October 31st. The public didn't learn of that until well after the election. And I believe that that was intentionally done. One might argue and say that it was not done. But I believe that the benefit laid in the corner of the court of the mayor. So he withheld that information. Another interesting thing through reading and researching and others have reported this, that Mr. Fleming actually removed his name from an Arkansas zoo bid for a job there because he was concerned it may show that he was seeking a job. Now this comes on the heels now of the accreditation. In March of this year we lost the accreditation for the zoo. Why do we lose it? Because funding and the revolving door, so to speak, these are just a few of the things. And some of the basic care of the animals, but that's argumentative. But the reality is that he was supposed to be preparing for accreditation that would be submitted in March of this year, next year. Well, if you don't have funding, you lose accreditation. If you lose accreditation, it's much harder to get funding, right? Yes, it is. But we were successful. The bill was passed. The amendment was passed. The taxpayer is going to be taken from our property taxes 0.5%. And then in turn they will manage the zoo. The problem is now they have to recruit a new manager. And so these are some serious problems. And just one, how is this impacting the animals? There's one animal there, and I've talked about this, a hippopotamus named Louise, who remains a rosy. There's one died due to construction and what have you. That's the allegations and the concerns that the work that was performed there caused the death of this animal, contributed to the death substantially. This animal, the remaining animal, has been enclosed in a private, sequestered area blocked off from public interest of view for almost two years. And it's just sitting there. And these are social animals. The display that is set up for the hippopotamus is that they repair it. It's still not open. And the reports I'm getting now is that the work that costs approximately $3 million is not working. What do you mean not working? The filtration system. See, they built a new filtration system for the display, the hippopotamus display. That was the reason they... Because the water they were drinking was somehow contaminated by the destruction? Yes. Well, not contaminated. The noise. And there are documents that we recovered in Foyer that say that there were challenges to the bid that said they didn't employ an acoustics professional. And so many things, and it's great details. But for the purpose of this discussion, I'll keep it limited. But it was about simply poor management. The necropsy that was done suggests that it may have been the stress from the work that was done. But meantime, all of the workers affiliated with that were warning the mayor and others that this was causing a problem and may contribute to the death and sure enough, it died. So what's the situation with the zoo now? Did the U.S.U. Amendment pass? The Amendment 9 did pass. And well now, as I say, it's complicated because what happens? You don't have a manager. And now reminding the public out there is that many of these animals that we have housed at the zoo are loners from other zoos. Now we're concerned that the nearest date for possible accreditation will be in 2019. So why would the AZA or other zoos that have loaned these animals allow these animals to remain here in Honolulu? We're going to lose them if we're not accredited. Right. And well it depends on the zoo that loaned them or the source that loaned them. So there are many technical questions here that's presenting themselves on behalf of the zoo function and what have you. And I think more than anything, the problem that I find with the zoo is lack of transparency and it's top-heavy in management. We don't need that kind of money. The salaries are $164,000. That wasn't enough to retain a veterinarian or a doctor or manager. Then what will, right? Yeah. Doesn't sound like the zoo is going anywhere good, does it, Carol? No, and it has been habitually mismanaged. For the letter that on March of this year that during the revocation of the accreditation cites specific concerns that for three consecutive periods of five years it has been woefully inadequate in some instances. Too bad for a city of a million people, a state of 1.3. In September I was in Portugal, in Lisbon, and I went to the zoo there in Lisbon. It was beautiful. It was beautiful. In a country that's not very rich, but this zoo is outstanding compared to what we have here. No comparison. They put so much effort into it. It was a lovely experience to be there. It's not a lovely experience to be at Honolulu Zoo. I agree and I advocate now for if we are to keep a zoo to privatize it and to some way take the mirrors control off of the monies because my biggest concern is that now that we'll have so much money that we will see some of that money. These are my suspicions now. I haven't given any great studies to it, but this money will be abused and diverted to other things and because there is no transparency with public. Let's go on to the next issue. This is the spill, sewage spill at Colina. What happened? Well, about the 30th of November, a report came out that it was a spill more than 1,000 gallons. It's from the city. The report came from the city. It came from the city in the press release. Problem with that, it's suspect and most of the spills that occurred in Honolulu, especially at the hands of the city, tend to come out with 1,000 gallons and that's suspect, you know, that old magical 1,000. So immediately, a sewage spill is of concern anyway for me and many people. So with the result, it's even greater concern because people are actually in contact with the water. Well, here's the problem. You mean the swimming water? The swimming water and it's not very far so we could migrate down through the streams or ditches or whatever, depending on. Well, in this instance, they only reported 1,000 gallons or slightly more. Days later, they finally reported that it was some 201,000 gallons. Well, I guess it's 1,000 versus 201,000. Right. That seems like pretty gross inaccuracy. Yeah, and unfortunately, many of the media people don't take note of this because give you a little example of what the tell-tale signs that you can see that there's misrepresentation or basically a flat lie. That is, if you see a truck congregating, trucks congregating, seven or eight of them and some of them have 2,500 gallon tanks and some have 5,000 gallon tanks, and you see them load up, suck up and move, you would think that just one truck would represent 5,000 gallons so here you have five trucks working or seven trucks working, sucking it up and then they report 1,000 gallons. It doesn't make sense, right? It doesn't make sense. And if you multiply 5,000 gallons, well, if you divide five into 200,000, my goodness gracious, that's a lot. That's going to be 40 times one truck. So this has come also at the same time, they're recruiting workers to work overtime. So 1,000 gallons wouldn't require seven trucks or eight trucks, vacuum trucks. And here are some of the funny things of the calamity that seem to have taken place there. The workers, this is for workers now. I don't have first-hand knowledge, but they were accurate in their calling me and ripped. And that is, the first response was they turned off the wrong valve and this is when you made your inquiry. Yes. This is the first response you got. Well, no, no, this is the report, the workers that are there contact me and told me that, you know, when they first responded, the responders turned off the wrong valve, thinking that that was shut off the flow. It's a 20-inch main, forced main. Well, they didn't stop. So they went back, turned on the right valve, turned on and then started to suck it from one point, take it back up the hill, so to speak. It may have been downhill, but then that material would flow back down. So they were sucking it up, repeating, sucking up the same material that, so someone caught on. Now, again, I don't think that the city's going to openly admit this, but it sure makes a difference between 1,000 and 201,000. Transparency. That they admit now. And I have a rule of thumb. If the city generally say it's 200,000, then you can add another 300,000. Because there's SCADA. There's a computerized system that tracks each pipe and where it's going and the volume going. And by now, they know high-use periods, morning times, evening times, and there are an approximate amount that would be contained in that line. And this line goes on the Pearl Harbor, I'm told by State Health Department, and into Honolulu treatment plan. When did this happen? November 30th. Okay. And commonality here is that it took eight days for Barrett Fleming to come out with his, that he was leaving, you know, the election, and then it take eight days for them to come out and admit that there was more than 1,000 gallons. So it's kind of an interesting thing. The mayor has a rather curious behavior here, eight and eight, I guess. Well, we have one in one. We have one minute for a break. We're going to take a break now. When we come back, we're going to talk about some more issues that's happening in the city with Carol Cox, our environmental watchdog. We'll be right back. Looking to energize your Friday afternoon? Tune in to stand the energy man at 12 noon. Aloha Friday. Here on Think Tech Hawaii. I'm Ethan Allen, host of likeable science here on Think Tech Hawaii. Every Friday afternoon at 2 p.m., you'll have a chance to come and listen and learn from scientists around the world. Scientists who talk about their work in meaningful, easy to understand ways. And you'll come to appreciate science as a wonderful way of thinking, way of knowing about the world. You'll learn interesting facts, interesting ideas. You'll be stimulated to think more. Please come join us every Friday afternoon at 2 p.m. here on Think Tech Hawaii for likeable science with me, your host Ethan Allen. Okay, we're back. We're live with Carol Cox, environmental watchdog talking about issues in and around the city and county of Honolulu. And for the third one to discuss this day, it's about leachate, L-E-A-C-H-A-T-E. And we have had some leachate spills. What's the situation, Carol? Well, trash trucks, traversing out of city and state highways and roadways, private lanes, what have you. When a truck picks up trash, it contains a portion of that trash contains liquids. And the definition of leachate basically is when water or other liquids are coming contact with municipal solid waste or garbage, it should be treated as leachate because like coffee it percolates, the water percolating down, extracts or washes out the chemicals or constituents of concern. Heavy metals and what have you. So, yeah, let's talk about what have you. I mean, you got heavy metals, you got all these organic materials and that means bacteria. Bacteria. And poisons from household chemicals and other chemicals. Many people are ill at home or nursing or baby diapers or just... All kinds of organic. ...cat litter that is discarded in the municipal trash. And that is supposed to be heading to the H-Power, the burning facility, or the landfill depending on the circumstances. What happens? Well, the trucks that are transporting this material, they are stored, this is speaking of the city now, there are private truckers too that contribute to this as well. But the city we're focusing now at K.E. Transfer Station and Kapa'a and Kauai Loa because they have these unique trucks. The fleet is now converting to what they call Keith Flooring, walking floors. And these trucks then are not completely sealed. So, when they scoop up the trash at the Transfer Station which contains leachate and water mixed in, they load that up in a bucket and dump it in the truck, packs it, that truck then backs out, spilling its load because it's draining. The truck is not waterproof. Not what it should be. And there's a revised ordinance of Honolulu states that 9.2 states that it must be sealed and you shall not spill liquids onto the highways. For this very reason? For this very reason because at the landfill they have to manage their leachate substantially and that's what caused the big problem when we had the leachate to flow into the ocean, that substantial medical waste and leachate that was out there. So this is serious and it should be managed. So, for some reason the state, Department of Health and the city and county of Honolulu have this buddy-buddy deal. They have a permit called the NPDES permit. We'll just call it NPDES. And it's to manage stormwater. So they monitor and test the stormwater monthly but here's the problem. They don't test for bacteria. This bacteria laden water and contaminants that's in the water are dumped and dribbles onto the parking lot at Keahi Translucent. What do they test for if they're monitoring? Heavy metals because you see we're dealing with garbage in solid waste. Are heavy metals dangerous by themselves? Yeah, mercury, lead, iron, you know, cadmium, nickel and things. They can be toxic depending on the individuals or the environment. But the situation here at Keahi for example dumps into, it drains into the lagoon that leads into the Keahi lagoon out there where all the canoes and what have you, the regatta that occurs. Where people touch the water? Yes, sir, and it's presented a problem during our high storms or the heavy storms here that's when this presented itself. But this occurs every day. Now imagine driving behind a truck and you get this misfit, it's a bright sunny day and your windshield gets speckled with droplets. It's not honeydew from heaven. It's a gift from the city and county of Honolulu's trash trucks. Yeah, and that stuff has got, well, it's got at least bacteria in it. It's got antigens for sure. Things you wouldn't want to breathe in or have on your skin. Right, and so we have actually filed a complaint with the state health department asking them to immediately cause an inspection of all of the trucks that transport on the city yards but we're also going to be asking for them to be more aggressive and enforcing on the private haulers as well because sometimes I refer to them as snotty nose trucks. You actually can drive down the road and see them just dribbling, fluids just flowing out of the back of the trucks and that's from the trash. It could be dead animals, it could be anything that people have discarded. Leachate. So question, what about the leachate that gets on the concrete of the, you talked about droplets getting on your windshield and I assume that means the droplets would get in your air conditioning system. The air conditioning system is going to suck them up like the rest of the air around and you're going to be breathing that in your car should you be following the garbage truck and should those droplets come on your windshield that come into your car but there's another thing too is that they drop on the concrete roadway or the Macadam roadway and now they're there and they dry and they form a kind of dust. What happens with that aspect of the leachate? Well it could be left as spores or just left clinging to the dust, the dirt that's dry but this is replenished every day and each tractor trailer truck might make four trips from KHE transfer station to the H-Power. So it lay there just waiting and if it dries up you might see the moisture gone but the contaminants are still there in present and they're in the air and they're washing down and building up and caking up and much of this stuff is a grind and from the trucks lubricants and all that and the mud and the food waste and what have you. Just yesterday in Waikele I went and photographed a truck, a commercial hauler whose truck broke down in the park now. Imagine having a picnic and having a smelt trash. Well this truck sat there all weekend basically. Yesterday it was there, I photographed it and you could see where the leachate had flowed out of the truck and running down and so it'll be there in the park for some while. What about the EPA? You say you wrote to the state health department wouldn't the EPA, I'm not sure that Donald Trump's EPA is going to be the same as the Obama EPA but wouldn't the EPA be interested in this? Well here's what I would say removing the names I applaud Donald Trump for even speaking to the fact that he would gut or modify the EPA. It is a waste of time, it's a waste of flesh, it's a waste of money. It's too big for its own good but it never intended. It suggests that it's serving people but how do you get a Detroit water drinking system develop if you have the big bad EPA? My professional experience is that the EPA Donald Trump in his efforts should eviscerate completely modified. We have people stepping over people in the EPA with doctorate degrees and what have you but for myself as an environmentalist who just naturally concerned I'm not received well. I'm looked at as a sore thumb. That's interesting. Yes and so I believe that I applaud not that I'm supporting Trump. I don't want to give that impression. But I do, you can see good in everything and I'm hoping that he stick to his guns on that and it's not the Obama EPA the EPA has been around getting free handouts and presenting themselves as being this great savior of the environment but there's a party going on here. The EPA covers for the state because the EPA grants the state the authority adopts the authority to enforce federal laws or state laws, I have similar laws and then the state turns to the city and the city emulates the state and then we lives in a hell hole or a sewage dump here called Hawaii supposedly pristine and rare and irreplaceable. Thank you Carol for that. One last issue. We have the kehi the kehi dumping now of contaminants and sewage how does that work? So again this facility is located and you have storm drains built into the parking lot so what they've done now these trucks are supposed to have a wash rack they spent millions building wash racks many of them are not used so the men are actually washing by hand they're supposed to go in and collect that material with the commercial hauler that isn't done frequently or enough now the water puddles up outside gets to a point and runs down the drain untreated and it gets into the lake or the river leachate again and just water not just leachate but also wastewater generated by the washing of the trucks and the scrubbing and what have you which is another form of leachate yes which is another form of leachate because ultimately some of it much of it is going to roll into the trash trucks or to the pit and there is another thing with this how it happens is that front end loaders huge tires I just got pictures of this thick tracks they deposit when they go into the hole they deposit that's why when you ask if that is leachate I equate it to that because these tractors are actually bringing in on the tires and dumping it and depositing it on the stream so it goes down the drain in a puddle down the drain where does it go from there out to the ocean where people touch the water yes and they can discharge they have a permit as long as they manage it and monitor it but unbeknownst to me and came as a shock the state health departments they do not test or require them to test for bacteria so how do you become aware of these things people in the government talk to you you talk to the government you go out and observe you take pictures and you educate yourself as to the environmental activities of the city and I suppose the state as well tell us about your mission and how you accomplish it I'm formally educated in natural resources number one management and I was a game ward in California and a special agent for the Department of Interior Fish and Wildlife Service and I have a love for the environment because this is our home there's one planet, one opportunity one chance to live here that's what motivates me when I see these behaviors we are taking money and people have learned to put themselves in places where they form these jobs out of these task out in the taxpayer in getting it we as consumers get it and also people we own these lands as people we come to expect that they are left clean and managed well that's why we pay a person $160,000 a year so what motivates me is that there are honest people in government it is my experience that 99.9% of the people working for government is honest and want to do the right thing the problem is those few that do dare come out they can be decapitated by the system and there's nothing whistleblowing or anything and we'll just eat them alive so that's what motivates me I serve as that conduit the so-called alarmist and that's what motivates me because it's a good thing and doing good is just feel good so how can we read more about you have you got a newsletter or a website we need to know about? carolcox.com and I have Facebook Carol Cox or the Carol Cox show radio show at Carol Cox and it's at KWAI 10.80 a.m. on Sunday mornings at 9 to 11 a.m. and once in a while think tech too yes sir and I'm always happy to come back thank you Carol great to see you thank you