 Yeah. All right, let's why don't we get started at seven o'clock and unfortunately due to technical difficulties we don't have anyone on zoom watching at home but we are recording and we'll make that recording available to them after the fact so thank you to those of you who are here tonight. I'm Lori Poacher I'm the VP of your county Audubon. Before we get to my program just a couple of events that your county has that YCA has coming up. We practice this for hours there we go. Okay. So first up is our 2023 burden challenge and this year this weekend actually will be out trying to see many birds as possible in a 24 hour period that is our challenge. And this year we're fundraising on behalf of the main young burgers club, which was founded by your county Audubon in 2016. So we're looking to raise money to support the club's efforts expand our membership hopefully to do a better job reaching underserved communities so we'd like to invite everyone here to donate if you haven't want to aim your phone at that your code there's also a couple of sheets in the back that you can take home that'll take you to the website. So if you want to do an online donation and just a reminder that no donations to small literally every dollar helps we're closing in on our on our fundraising goal we're looking to raise $5,000 and we're at about 4300 as of today. What else are weekly bird walks by weekly bird walks are back so they started last week so they will resume on May 27 and then run every other Saturday through August 5. So I'm right here at loud on farm 730 in the morning but space is limited and pre registration is required so I will direct you to your county Audubon dot org for details and to read to register for that. And then on May 20 next Saturday, the beach plum farm eco fest is being held that's in a gun quit right downtown, just north of downtown at beach plum farm and we will be participating there that should be a fun event and again there's more details on our website. And then in June, our next program is on Tuesday, June 20 that is at 7pm right here, there is no zoom streaming for that program that's live in person only and pre registration again is required. That one's called birds of prey are talented friends very funny title that's being presented by the Center for wildlife and they're bringing some of their wildlife ambassadors long so that's always a fun program. And for those who aren't familiar CFW has treated over 50,000 injured and orphaned wild animals and presented programming to thousands and thousands of community members over the years so should be a great program definitely family friendly so head on over to your county Audubon dot org to sign up for that. That program is also going to be preceded by our brief annual meeting on June 20. At that meeting will be seeking our members approval for our slate of officers and directors, as well as our revised by laws so again details can be found at your county Audubon dot org encourage everyone to take a look and give us any feedback to have. So that's enough for me so let's get this nice program. We are delighted to have Anna seagull with us tonight. Anna is a climate justice activist, a high school student and an active member of me and bird club. She's also the advocacy director of main youth action, a core member of main youth for climate justice and serves on her towns climate action task force. So she's here tonight as the outreach lead for the 30 year bird project, which is working to answer the question of what role means nearly 10 million acres of commercial forest can play in conservation so without further ado, here is Anna. Thank you so much. Thank you so much for being here. I'm super excited to be here before we begin. I want to acknowledge that we are doing this work on wabunaki land and all the work with 30 year bird project. I've been doing is on wabunaki land and so is your county Audubon. And so there will also be a question period at the end of this presentation. So, if you so same questions for the end would be excellent. But I thank you for the lovely introduction. I also just want to introduce myself a little bit more. So I am a high school student, I go to main food school in Portland, and I live in the greater Portland area, and I am both very interested in birds and climate. And those two things come together in 30 year bird project, looking at how the abundance and diversity of birds in more of a main is affected by forestry, but because two separate studies were conducted 30 years ago. And in the 2020, so like 2020, 2021, 2022, then it's climate change obviously changed me and those forests in that 30 year period and forest practices also changed. So, how is all this affected birds, what does this mean for conservation, what does this mean for ecology, that's what we're trying to find out. So I'm working on this project because of one of the principal investigators who's listed here. This little list is the principal investigators, the two field crew leads for the 2020 project, which will talk about more later, and myself. I was contacted by PhD ecologist Dr. John Hagan. He said, hey Anna, it is rare to find a high school student who wants to be a conservation or an apologist. And I said, yes, please. So he invited me to spend a week up there, five hours north, the last two hours being on just dirt roads, middle of nowhere, in this logging area, and to sweep in some old logging camping vans and wake up at 4am to look at birds. It was awesome. And so that was, that was what I did for a week two summers ago and that was basically just a field trip I was just kind of like helping out with plant surveys and things like that. And then last summer, he asked me to do that more work as the outreach lead, and kind of dig in a little bit because the research is for undergraduates and graduate students, but he created this opportunity for me to create presentations like this and write articles. And so that's why I'm here today. If you are interested in kind of taking this home with you, beyond the recording of the presentation, which will be made available. The October issue of main magazine also has an article written by myself about the 30 year bird project. And that is the mainers of the year issue so it's a, it's one that a lot of people have, because that is looked forward to addition. All right, so that's little introduction, who I am, how I got involved. And I also just want to flag that my involvement in this is due to intergenerational collaboration. That is something that is so unique about this project. Not only has it spanned 30 years from 1990s, the 20s, but also the spanned many generations high school student myself, the undergrad and graduate students, then the older folks, the principal investigators who were the original field crew 30 years ago. All right, so the 30 year project. Why start this 30 years ago, because the reasons that the project occurred 30 years ago. And I say today, even though the research part is over, but referring to the 2020 section I'm going to say today, why started 30 years ago was for a few reasons. One is the big New England hole. If you look at maps of Maine, you'll see that there's an area where there's pretty much nothing. It's really cool and it's pretty unique in this area, where you'll throw these highways and then there's a big blank space. That is these 10 million acres of logging forest. And people wondering what happens up there, what lives there what breeds there, and who's using the area and what is productivity look like. And then clear cutting was a big issue in 1990s there was a lot of chocolate clear cutting, were they biological deserts. Is this safe. Is this something that we should be doing this picture is a place called rather much clear cut in pictures like this people found barely really alarming. And then also in 1990s was a spruce butter worm outbreaks, which also changed the ecology of the region and also prompted more questions about what was going on up here. And so this is what why this is started, and this is the big hole that I was referring to. So you can see that there is a highway coming down from the left from Canada, one that goes across to Bangor and then one that goes up and cuts off into New Brunswick. And then above that is the hole. There is not much in the pin rack enough road is where that logging camp I referred to was those are those little logging houses that we stayed in there on the Golden Road, which is a place where they take the logging trucks, it is covered in shale, it destroys trucks be very careful if you decide to go birding up there. The golden road is a little treacherous. But so the massive clear cuts in the 1980s were due to a blood worm outbreak, they needed to cut down as many things as possible, so they could use the wood before it was destroyed by this spruce bedroom. And so this lot of commercial forestry in northern Maine, and there was a lot of spruce bedroom which means that there was a lot of clear cuts, and this people found really concerning. And this is really interesting because not only is it a whole in terms of roads, but it's also whole in terms of life and human impact. Yes, there's forestry. That's something we're talking about so it's not necessarily a bad thing for sure doesn't immediately mean clear cut clear cut doesn't immediately need that. But the human impact here, it's a whole three roads but it's also whole of life. This is, this is a light pollution map. This is photos of some of the forestry that happens the people who are working this land or warehouser land best and Appalachian Mountain Club does some forestry as well on our lands. And there's a few other companies all that we had to work with me or would do this study because we had to gain access to the land. So in partnership. This is a picture of the Golden Road that we would drive in on. And also why this study happened 30 years ago is because they were these alarming reports of massive bird declines, which almost seems like how we talk about this all the time like everything's dying. But this was part of this first wave of think of like Bill in the cave in the end of nature like his like one of the first books about climate change. People were kind of thinking about this for the first time on this grand scale, and how frightening that was in a big focus was there was this decline in birds that migrate to and from neotropics. Largely because of forestry in the Amazon. The question was, if we could help on our end, if we when they come here. How can we benefit them because they're not only neotropics, but also breeding here and breeding is where we gain population. So that's super, super important. And this is this heightened conservation concern. It was replicated 30 years later. So the original study, what the original study found is that clear cuts are not ecological deserts. It was, it was actually really interesting and kind of contentious conclusion, saying that it's not necessarily bad to clear cuts. It's not that it's empty waste land, it's still habitat. It's a different kind of habitat. And it's not that we can have clear cuts. It's not it's just that we can't have all clear cuts, just like we can't have all old growth forest. You probably know this from anecdotes by ecology in California and Australia, but you, but you sometimes you need natural degradation of land like wildfires for to be healthy. So you can have all growth, you can have all clear cuts. What the original study found is that you need an healthy balance of forest in all levels of succession. And that's not everyone loves conclusion because there was a lot of like anti clear cut activism, which is understandable, because again, can't have everything be a clear cut. But that sort of grassland, so to speak, even though it's artificially created supports a lot of birds with so does old growth and so does everything in between. So that was the conclusion then, why do this all over again, why replicate the study and do all the point counts at 4am and hire folks and get people up to the Golden Grove. The same conservation concern is still here, because of the 3 billion bird report, because that area of me, the great big hole was marked as an IDA bird life and important important bird and biodiversity area, because forestry practices have changed in the last 30 years, because of climate change, everything is slightly different. And those small bubbles kind of massive impacts for ecology. So the shifting forestry practices because of that kind of anti clear cut push, things went to partial cutting. So instead these great swaths of land, it was lines, it's like line of no trees, line of trees, line of no trees. And that kind of change how much old growth and clear cut there is also climate changes pushing more northern species of trees farther more that will change the ecology up here. So that's why we replicate the study. Why do this all over again. And just any, I remember like where they were when they heard about the 3 billion birds paper. Like, to me this is a very distinct memory that it was so striking I was on a birdwalk. And so I pulled out their phone and read a headline and the entire group side, but because we all knew it, we all seen every, every spring migrations and the way it used to be, it's not blooming right. You know, there isn't these sorts of insects and these are these sorts of birds. But this report was for climate activists and analogous support is that October 2018 into governmental panel climate change report which talked about the threshold of emissions. And it's a similar kind of we need to take action this way as soon as possible. And that's really what prompted the replication of the study. So, trying to answer how foresters and landowners could change their practices to protect her. It's how to unite economy and environment conservation corporation. So that's the great background clear cut. And that's what it looks like now. So this is clear cutting. And this is partial cutting. Again, you would say that this looks healthier. And that's that we argued but it's, it's good to have a mix of everything. Some more comparisons. So this is how things were in 1992. There was 40% younger forest, 20% mid age forest 40% mature forest. Now, it is the complete opposite. We have very low young forest 20% a lot of mid age forest 60% and more mature forest, less mature forest but 20%. And that is also because of shifting forestry practices, we're doing less old growth cutting and letting things grow a little more but old growth is still disappearing and letting the mid age things grow. And then it flux again, likely like this, this will kind of just be a cycle, but this change in 30 years is quite significant. And it means that we don't quite have as many age classes as we once did, because the 1992 line is flatter. And this one is a lot more sloped, which means that we're not keeping a level amount of age classes so they're so age class is a different kind of habitat you think about that way. Some birds only want mature forest, some birds only want younger forest. And if there's less of that, if there's less of an age class they have less habitat. So these are the big questions I was referring to. How have these bird populations changed looking at population maps 1990s to now. And how can we make this into applied science. This is why this project is so interesting. This isn't going to be a paper that disappears into an ivory tower lockbox this is science that could affect reveal policy and real change in real practices for conservation, which is super interesting and part of the reason I wanted to be involved. So here's some more comparison maps. This is the study area in the 90s. And these little squares are like segments of forest. Like that, the, like the timber companies have these like stand maps and stand maps show what kinds of trees are in different areas, these maps are just these parcel up the land into different squares. So we would say, you know, we'd head out for the morning we say okay we're going to visit block for the things like that and that's what these different blocks are. In 2020 is the study area is pretty much the same. It's just that back then there were only two big corporations they're working with and now there's a lot more land best you were your parks and land application mountain club warehouser. When I was there I was mainly in the warehouse of lands. And then so these are the point counts from 1990s and we'll talk more about what points counts are and what and what they were in their 387 point counts in the study 30 years ago, mind you point counts have to be repeated twice. So they did all these double and they did plant surveys at every single one. So it's a lot of work. And then these are the 2020 sample points overlaid a lot of the points were the exact same a lot of them were slightly different because we could find all of the points exactly. But it's the same area, and they were actually more in the 2020s so it got crazier. This is a stand map from 1993. So again stand map shows the different age classes of the forest. And misery township was actually that's what's represented here was a little bit miserable that is where some trucks continued to break down. It was also very lucky there. But so this is different age classes in 1993. And then this is how it changed 2022. So you can see that there is quite a difference in there being a lot more mid age things and less old group and younger. So meet the field crew leads, I wasn't there for three months for multiple, like a year or two, I was only there for a week, gathering, you know, I was interviewing the crew and getting materials for things like articles and like this. But John Levy and Kelsey Anderson were out there, leading the field crew for three months, which is crazy and very cool. And they did two summers they did one summer it was just the two of them, doing like half those points counts. And the next summer there were a bunch more folks all staying in a cabin in this head lake, but both them. John Levy is a PhD student at Tufts University and Kelsey Anderson is a master's student. And they are just very cool people. I was such a privilege to learn from them and kind of get a glimpse into almost my future. I was like, that's that's what I want to do. That's pretty cool. I just want to sit there and pick up plants and get really, really, really getting my black flies we were bug nets, except Jonah, Jonah never work but it was more rockin this, never. And here are methods that that's a photo of me the first summer I went I somewhere after freshman year I can't remember now, but that was a very large tree. So, like I said, hundreds of point counts after every single one, two times, and have to go back to every single point and do a vegetation survey. So the method of a point count is you locate the point, you have to go in 100 years from the road, then you have to listen and record for 10 minutes of complete silence, and multiple people have to be reporting in case other people miss some birds, other people get some birds and you discuss afterwards you kind of say like I think I heard that you hear that. What was that species, maybe, and you do record it so that you can go back and argue to each other if you need to. And this is only in six weeks, you have to do all the point counts in six weeks before the birds settle down and stop singing. So you're on a timetable, you're doing a lot of them per day, you're waking up early. So I would wake up at around 3am, we'd have breakfast, we'd head out depending on how far, sometimes drive for like 15 minutes, sometimes like an hour and a half, and the trucks depending on how far out we are going to different points. And then we'd have lunch at like 10, and then go out again, and keep doing it and then come back, enter data, then go back out with my surveys, and then crashed on 7 or 8. And folks definitely had days off and had fun, like, you know, the crew members would go swimming in the lake and play cards, it was a really fun atmosphere. But the vegetation survey is rather than being a 50 meter point, like a bubble, they were like 100 meter transects. So you would take that measuring tape, run it through the area of the point and then count every single plant species along at 100 meter transect. And then do a bunch of other funky fun science data stuff in terms of measuring the density of the canopy, the height of the trees, and so on and so forth. And the reason that we go back to collect the vegetation data, just because it's because we can relate birds to the particular habitat. So what habitats are birds favoring, and is it certain like plant species or is it like the overall habitat. So the initial insights and results. It's still 10 million acres of bird habitat. In the past 30 years, it is not mythological desert. Forestry practices changing climate change did not get rid of birds from this landscape. We, it is still a firm and abundant breeding ground for birds. We have many species seems that increased just receiving more species, individuals of a species in one area than there was 30 years ago, many species, and we don't necessarily understand why the data analysis is still going on, because of, you know, generally about how they work and so on. But we did learn a lot about what different species like. So Northern Prula, any forest is fine. They're generalists. But I do yours, they may seem like generalists more operating, but actually they really want much for hard work. Common yellow foods, they like clear cuts, that's probably to be expected. So wargways also want mixed softwood, which also surprised me. And again, this is on the breeding ground, something different than how they behave. And we're just seeing them around birding more and so I mean, but different species use different habitat types. And there are some exceptions to the densities. Some have decreased in density. These are all increases. So American Red Star is increased in density. And I'm going across an average. So you don't have to look at like the individual bars but you can see the average here for American Red Star is increased. Black and blue wargway averages increased slightly. Black and green wargways increased by a lot and so has Golden Crown Kinglet, which I can attest to every single point count. So many Golden Crown Kinglets. So fresh, I love them. I love them, but very frustrating when the channel isn't for other things. Some things decreased. Magnolia warboard, which is the photo that stood this presentation and winter run. Pretty significantly too. Again, don't know why. Trying to see what's going on here and whether it reflects a larger population change orchestra. So habitat change, 1990s versus the 2020s, the mountain habitat in the landscape. So the blue is 1990s and the orange is 2020s. And these different codes tell you what this is. So this would be, you know, like hardwood, a mixture, softwood. So this is mid-age hardwood, mid-age mixture, mid-age softwood. This is mature hardwood, mid-age, mature mixture, mature softwood. This is regen. So regen is growing back after a clear cut. So like the bushy stuff after fires that you see in photos. And this is like clear cut CL. So you can see clear cut went down, regen went up by a ton, which makes a lot of sense, because if we cut back on clear cutting, then all of it's going to start growing back. We're going to have all that bushy stuff. And we can see that also the mid-age went down, but the mid-age mixture went up, and then all of the mature went down. And this is not a good sign, because we need to keep that age class because a lot of birds like the red-eyed burials really like it. So just looking at exactly these changes that have happened and putting them in these categories just for easier visuals, youngest, medium, mature, species density, small graph, I know, can finagle it to be a little easier to read. This is just, again, looking at how the species density is overall increased. So again, blue 1990s, orange 2020. So you can just see American Red Star has gone up pretty much across all of, and this is putting it against the age classes, which is different about this graph. So you can see in almost all the age classes, the same ones up here, so younger stuff, mid-age, mature, same grouping. So American Red Star has gone pretty much across the board. Chestnut sidewalls are mostly increased in the young stuff, not much change in other age classes. Golden crown king length increased across all age classes, but really increased in the mature, which, again, if there's less mature, but bird density is increasing in the mature hardware, so you really need that mature course. So don't, this is just to show how many there are, you don't actually have to read what they are, but this is the list of species that increased in abundance. So 43 species increased in abundance in the study area. Which is both significant and surprising. And it ranges from ruby-froated hummingbird all the way down to black bull warbler, and in the middle there's spruce grouse, blue jay, veery, purple finch, pilliative pecker. And then this is looking at how many there were in the 1990s, looking at how many there were in the 2020s, and then what the number is, like what the exact changes. So ruby-froated hummingbird, they had a 10,000 individual increase. So if you're, and then also the abundance percentage change. So ruby-froated hummingbird increased by 1,128%. And this is in order of highest percentage change to lowest. So black bull warbler, not that much. Ruby-froated hummingbird a lot. I think the one I find most interesting is spruce grouse. So ruby-froated hummingbird had a 74% change in density. Some of this could be better detection. Maybe we know where they are. It's easier to find them. And some of that has to be worked out in like error analysis. There are a lot of species that decreased in abundance, only 17 compared to the 43 prior. And some of them were quite a lot, like 100% change as in we saw none in the 2020s. So ruby-froated hummingbird, no wood drush, no Wilson's warbler, no Sharpshooter talk, no Tennessee warbler, no Philadelphia burial. That was unfortunate for me because not only was this a research trip for me, it was a bird on show. I really wanted to see some Philly bees. I've seen them since, but when I first visited this study I'd never seen one. So again, could it be detection? Could we not be hearing these birds? But if it's hundreds of points or visiting them twice over two summers, that's pretty unlikely. Again, just kind of visual cue if it's hard to decipher what this is. Abundance in the 1990s, abundance in the 20s. The change in abundance never represented change. So yeah, this is a self-indulgent slide. I took this photo. It was my first Bruce Grouse. I was really happy. But I also thought that this was a fun story because I was after hours. So we'd done point counts for like six hours. We'd all been up for ages. Everyone was relaxing. Everyone goes, oh yeah, you know that's Bruce Grouse pair we found last week. And I was like, what is Bruce Grouse pair? And everyone, instead of relaxing as they showed up to their work day, they all took me back out into the study area to show me this Bruce Grouse. It was super sweet. And it was very cool in an attestation to how dedicated the field crew were to not only their work but also birding and also showing, you know, I guess the next generation of birders. Well, thanks. So it was very cool. It was very buggy. Again, that was particularly bad air. It was in the middle of a fog. There was also a female. And the male was displaying. So what does the study mean? Where is the application? So conservation impact, what could the timberland owners be doing differently? And birding impacts. So there's a side consequence to all this work we did. We also found out where all the birds are and what they are in the areas they like to live in and where they're breeding. So we also found out how you can be really good at birding up north. So there's this really interesting educational side to this study where it's now we could basically give a guide as to the best thoughts to see different kinds of warblers or this or that up north. We could tell people where not to go on the roads where you're going to bust the tire where you might be able to find lodging. There is kind of some talk about looking to establish a birding trail in collaboration with Appalachian Mountain Club. And then also, there will be an Appalachian Mountain Club birding festival, which will be June 15 to June 18. And part of this birding festival is coming from the results of the study. There will be field crew members, hopefully myself, I'm hoping I can go up. But also Jonah Levy will be going up to give more talks like this and also lead bird walks, because no one knows better the sound of every single bird up there than Jonah Levy. Jonah Levy has done all of those point counts. So that is a great opportunity if you're like this is super cool. The graphs don't interest me the picture the Spruce Garstas. That's totally fine. You can go birding up there with Jonah Levy and with more folks at the Appalachian Mountain Club birding festival, which I believe is the first birding festival. And so that is some next kind of cool things that will be coming out of this is real applied science and real ways to get people to engage in ecotourism in the area where it could definitely be used. Because part of this is, if it turns out that what we what Timberland owners need to be doing differently is scale back. That's an economic and environmental justice issue because that area is so reliant on timber. So if we increase ecotourism through birding, especially around areas like New South Lake, that'd be beneficial. But it's not to say that will be the outcome of the study that we're going to say you should do less force through there aren't any like sweeping conclusions like that, and they're likely won't be because it's a lot more nuanced than no clear cut yes etc. But it's definitely good to show people that there's great birding up there. I just want to kind of think the various vendors of this project, and especially the template owners for allowing us onto their lands. Like that is a big amount of trust like maybe giving us the key to go into their woods and look at their birds and possibly tell them things they may not want to hear. Again, don't know it right yet, but it's just super interesting that we're able to do this in such a diplomatic and a collaborative way. So, I accidentally sped through this. I talked a little bit too fast. That's okay. That means that we can have more questions and work time for things. This is also the project website. So our climate, our climate common org slash project 30 year bread project. You will find all of my amazing newsletters I learned how to use Mailchimp for my job is outreach lead. I, I was working on the newsletters up there where we had no internet and I would like trying to use Mailchimp, and every time I do something it will like erase my progress because there was my Wi Fi. But this is the project website. You can find things like Jennifer Rooks actually came up to the field site and interviewed a lot of crew members so you can find things like that on the website. But yeah, back to the black and blue warbler general questions or comments. Yeah. It was really wind dependent. We would often have to quit because of wind, wind days would often hinder the progress and that and again that's six week time period like that was, that would be a little stressful, you know, two days were off because of wind. But generally like 9am was where we'd kind of be like, yeah, we're going to, we're going to call it here. And then we'd go back to have second breakfast slash lunch, and then figure out what the next point of attack was, but wind was definitely an issue and there was a lot of creative ways to combat it where we would do point counts that were specifically in the way that if it started getting windy, we'd say okay we know that the point counts on this side of the ridge will be protected, or different trees sound different in the wind so we'd go to areas of plywood trees things like that. Yeah, it was very unlikely to see like we wouldn't really see birds in less like flocks of oral chickpeas coming through or like Canada jays or in the calm came what's really high up really see for borders because they were mostly feeding as much as they could for the green season very, very high up, but this study was my life for Canada jay life for oral chickpea life as breezegrass like there were definitely some cool birds and also northern gossops significant. So it's a tradition that we did a little bit of birding detours like the spruce grass we also did a birding detour, both summers I went for blackback woodpecker and we were unsuccessful both times, but it's all right, I'll go back up. Yeah, so, like around 80 to 100 years old. But if to learn more about that, the you can look up, we went to do stands called big Spencer and big greed were the ones that are significantly old like it was. I've never seen anything like it walking into big read it was one of the coolest experiences of my life, and there's no trails either so we were like kind of just bushwhacking very carefully. And then it just began away along and finding the old 1990s point count sites was really cool because they put like these little flags, and we like would find these flags under and like pieces of pipe like PVC pipe that stuck in the ground like like layers of mulch and leaves. So that's what we were doing in big read, but it was very, very cool. So the definition of old growth here is very different from the definition of old growth in your topics. I only bring this up because I was just in Costa Rica, and it connects really well, because it's the same warblers. But I asked them the same question I said how over your own growth and you looked at me like I was crazy. Like what do you mean. I was like, well, like what's your definition who's like, it's old, it's never been cut. Oh, oh, okay. Our definition is like, like, I think, I think around like 800, but again, depends on where you are. But actually in Costa Rica that's not true, necessarily, there's been new archaeological evidence of like 400 years ago of people in places like Osip Peninsula, who actually did countries, which is pretty interesting, but not a lot of research has been done into that. I have like general questions or comments about me this work. I wonder about the, those comparisons of the night, that would be the point down for you. Yeah, I would. I feel like I knew the answers that it's on one point. And that is, so when we're going to have zoom that one of the principal investigators John Hagan was going to be on soon in my backup plans that call on him, never those questions. So that is definitely a job that's what I call a John question. And I want to say yes because that sounds like something I had asked before, but I can also get the information field. Yeah, it is and if I went through the graphs quickly is a lot of them are smaller and does it, and then want to go back to those feel like we move through the two costs. Okay. Okay, I'm on the job. Okay, I was more, I think I was more burdened than a hub when I was up there, especially the first time of the first summer I was just there because they wanted me to experience what research looked like the second summer I was actually like working as a outreach lead. I think I did a little bit of like E bird Merlin before I went up and was like, I'm sad and then got there was like, no. Part of the problem is actually, I can't use this excuse it was only one species we found it, but the white bird sparrows there had a different dialect. And it wasn't just the ones up north there wasn't like a northern white bird sparrows, it was once in specific point counts. There was a set of point counts in a certain area where the white boats those entirely different dialect. It was absolutely fascinating. It was the kind of thing, like, questions breed questions you know it's the kind of thing that you need to go back and learn more about that. It's fairly very cool, but confusing. Is there any effort to track down where they come from? It wasn't part of this study because there's so much else going on but it would definitely be something to learn more about from what I know of bird song speciation, just personally I would probably say that there was probably just one male who did something different. And then, you know, that that worked that worked for him and then everyone and all the other males minute because he was the one who was getting mates and, but that's just how I was always taught it conventionally but avian science always surprises us. Yeah, that'd be fun. I want to go I want to go out of the state to college but calling back for something like that is super cool, especially because I want to continue doing forestry and ecology stuff I was never that into forestry because I was into birds and I was into climate and I was into ecology generally I didn't think about forestry a lot. And now I can walk into the woods and be like oh this is 2HB. It is, which is kind of fun but. Yeah, so we would do everything at certain heights. And then it was can't be density it was tallest tree height. It was the mix so is it softwood is a hardwood. And then it was also kind of looking at the width of trees as well, try to gauge ages like ins and losses because that's really good indicators old growth. And then there was a I honestly cannot remember all the things we would take down during those kinds of ways. No, no, I'm not that I know of, but that's super interesting. Yeah, if we don't want any questions or comments. Sorry, I did this a little bit fast. And everybody for all.