 on. It's Wednesday afternoon, four o'clock for a favorite time for Hawaii, the state of clean energy. My name is Mitch Ewan. I'm your senior host today. I'm joined by my junior host, Jake Fudell, and our guest, Richard Ha, a long-term friend of mine, a friend of Hawaii, a master banana farmer from the Big Island, but that's not all he does. He's also a hydrogen enthusiast, geothermal enthusiast, and most recently is leading a team to help our Kapuna in developing do-it-yourself face masks. For those of you who can't get one, you can't find one, for love of money. So we're going to be talking a lot about the virus, like everybody, maybe everybody's getting tired of that, but I think this is a positive conversation in how you can self-help yourself. And Richard and his team from Hawaii Energy, Hawaii Sustainable Energy have done a really great job in pulling together a program on how you can make your own masks, and they actually have a guide on how to do it. And so I'm going to break off and say hello to Richard. Richard, hello. Aloha. And also Aloha to you too, Jay. So Richard. Hi, Richard. Sustainable Energy and our face masks, just a little introduction. Yeah, well, we were involved in Energy Things for a long time, 10 years or so, or even longer. And then recently, we focused on the existential threats of climate change and declining fossil fuel. And so we were busy doing that and working with HALCO and PGV and their the efforts to bring online PGV. And then this virus thing popped up and took over and got, you know, it became so serious that we figured, oh man, we better focus on this and try to help where we can. So that's how come we're here. Did you pop up the first little slides just to help us visualize what we're talking about? So here you see on this first slide is a homemade mask and all the makings and what it takes to make one of these things. So Richard, tell us a little bit more about what we're seeing here and the kind of materials that we're going to be using. Yeah, you know, it's the kind of material everybody has because the way it is right now, the N95 masks, the health providers, you know, the hospital people need the mask. So what we wanted to do was to see if we could make masks for the rest of the people. And if we succeed in doing that, then maybe we can release more N95s to the caregivers. So everything you see in our video is actually, we started this more than a week ago and we did some research and, you know, because there's a lot of interest in this now and it's popping up on the internet, you know, daily. So we put it together and there's a video you can copy, but you can, you know, anybody can do it. You can sew it by hand or you can use a machine and the materials, you know, like cotton, for example, you know, there's a list of materials and it's effectiveness and the cotton is up to 60% effective. But if you're not wearing a mask, you don't have any protection, if you're wearing a mask, 60% is better than nothing. You know, in a short way to explain it, it's like this, you know, when you you're instructed that six feet is a safe zone and whenever you're closer to people than six feet, then you really got to be concerned. The N95 is meant to be 95% effective at one foot and somebody sneezed right in your face. So that's super good. So let's think about when you go in places where there are a lot of people that you're interacting with and maybe you have to do that, you know, like if you're going to buy food, for example, or if you're a teller at a bank and you're dealing with people, you know, a lot of these service things, face to face, you're not really trying to be, you know, safe one foot away. What you're trying to do is where whatever can get you to the safety of the six foot distance. And so if you think of when you go shopping, you might be three, four, five feet away from people. And if you get a mask that's 60% effective, well, that's certainly better than nothing. But it works two ways. It works for the person wearing the mask, because the main thing is that 80% of the people that are transmitting the virus don't even know they have it, because there's no symptoms during that time. So that's the scary part. So that's why we've got to do this. Yeah, yeah. We've been told now for the past three weeks or so. I mean, the time is compressed, you know, three weeks, it seems like longer, but it's only three weeks. That the mask is good to protect the other guy. So, you know, and traditionally, this has been the case in Asia and other places, you wear a mask, not for yourself, but to protect the other guy so that your droplet, so to speak, will land on the mask and not him, rather than the other way around. I mean, they say this, if you are looking to protect yourself, the mask is of no use, a little use. Now, what you're saying is different. You're saying it's a two way street. And I want to tell you, I kind of, I've always agreed with that, because I couldn't understand, you know, what the real distinction is. But how do you answer the people who say that it's only good one way? It's only good to protect the guy on the other side of the mask, not you. What do you say? Well, when, you know, it's like I said, you know, you're, would you rather have some protection or no protection? Because this is so serious. And it's, I'm not talking about the older people or anything at this moment, anybody, you know, that has to go in closer than six feet. Anything you can do, if you put a towel around your face, would help you some. And that some is better than nothing. So it's not complicated. You don't really need to have 95% mask. What you need to do is cut your risk. And this does that. Yeah. Well, the other thing that comes to mind, Richard, is that they, you know, when I say they, I mean, gee, I mean, the president, the governor, the staff around the governor, everybody who's talked to us about this has said the masks are coming. They're coming. They'll be here soon. And we're going to have a whole big force, you know, these, all these companies are redirecting their manufacturing assembly lines to make masks. And you'll see, you're going to get these N95 or better masks all over the place, every state, including Hawaii. But we actually don't have enough masks now. And if you went down to, you know, Walmart or Longs or name it, they don't have any masks. No masks for you. If you went on Amazon, lots of luck. So you don't, you don't get masks commercially, and you don't get masks for the government. But here you are involved in this DIY thing. And one day, I mean, this is a wishful prayer, one day, the masks are on us. We're going to be knee deep in masks, masks from your federal government, masks from your state government, masks from the commercial sector, from Walmart and Amazon, you name it, it'll be all over us. What's going to happen to all the masks you make, which are only 60% effective? Hey, you know what we, the thing about us is we got common sense. If it's 65% effective, we're going to use that. Throw in the one we made, but we're going to use what we can use. You know what they call that? Common sense. Yeah. Yeah. Well, come back to something is better than nothing. That's what it is. Absolutely. And you know what? Everybody can do it. And we got to do it really fast. There is no way that we can reasonably expect to have a flood of masks within two weeks, let's say. It ain't going to happen, but can we get everybody a mask in two weeks? I bet we could. If we put all our mind to it, because you know what this is? This is the Aloha style. We take care of each other. Just like you say, when you wear a mask, you're really protecting the other person, because when you protect the other person, then you lessen the risk for everybody. So we help each other that way. So it's the Aloha way of doing it. But you know, Richard, there's one other thing that's very Hawaii about what you're doing. And that is the notion of dry goods. You know, remember all those, you're old enough to remember all those dry goods stores everywhere, every little town, every city, every corner had a dry goods store, and you could buy fabric and you could sew things with or without a sewing machine, and you could make dresses and shirts and pants and everybody, every family was doing it. This I think is deeply ingrained in the Hawaii local culture, don't you? Yeah, absolutely. I was amazed. We were just on a call this morning, and then, you know, the lady told me, oh, yeah, I'm making a mask. I just made one. I'm going to make another one today. And then I had another conversation with, and they're doing that. I flipped me out. I never even imagined. It's just a start. So let's have a look at the next slide that shows some of the different fabrics. You want to comment on this, Richard? Yeah, but, you know, people can read it for themselves, yeah? Because, first of all, I cannot see that good. But it tells you, if you're using a scarf, you know, what the efficiency, you know, so you can decide on your own, because some of the materials cost more than others. One of the most effective is just an old t-shirt, cotton t-shirt. You know, that's the one that's 60%, yeah? So people can make their own choices. So would you put that t-shirt? Would you double it up in layers, or it's just like a single layer? I guess just... There's different ways of doing that. Yeah, so, and you know, in some cases, you make a little pocket, and then you put something in there. You know, but I don't want to say something that I have not actually checked, but I read a little bit that you could use something like, you know, those disinfectant wipes and put it inside there. Oh, really? Sounds reasonable. We've got to check it, yeah. Yeah, right. Yeah, if you make it out of a t-shirt, maybe you want to make it out of a logo t-shirt. For example, these masks that your team, your volunteers are making, they could have a Hamakua Springs farm, for example, all over the front of it. So everybody would know you built Goodwill, or an energy slogan on some kind. Well, for that matter, and this is the most important suggestion I can make, they could be Think Tech Hawaii masks. They could be Hawaii, the state of energy masks. You could really get some publicity going. Yeah, absolutely. Really? Just in case everybody's wondering, we do have a link at the final slide through the website or a link to where you can get the full instructions in great detail on how to make a variety of masks, not just a simple one, but there have been various degrees of complications or technology, like Richard was saying, one is wrong with a pocket that you can then stuff whatever you want inside that pocket to cut back the flow. So I recall when I was going to college, way back in the day, one of my very old professors had actually been in the world, World War I, and he had been a developer of the original gas masks they used in the trenches. And they used a whole variety of stuff to this is when they were having chemical attacks with chlorine and various other bad things, mustard gas and all that kind of stuff. So, you know, all the humans have been developing this stuff for a long time. So let's have a look at some of the other slides. We can talk about these as we walk away through it. So here's a slide that talks about the different types of materials. I notice pillowcases are also an option. I guess one of the high thread count ones would be better if you can afford these very high thread count sheets. I guess my other question I have is, what about washing them? I mean, you know, you can wash a t-shirt. So I expect that you could put it in your washing machine with some really good detergent. Wash all those little germs out with bacteria. Yeah, that's one of the things that we made sure we could do because, you know, the rubber slipper folks, if they can, the idea of buying a mask and throwing it away, it pretty soon starts to cost money and the masks themselves cost a lot of money. But if you make it yourself and then you wash it with soap and, you know, like what you're saying, then you can reuse them. Make two, three, you know, just have them stand by and rotate them. Yeah. By the way, you know, this video, there's a video in here that people can watch and learn how to do it. It shows how to do it. Right. So let's have another question about washing. You know, my memory is not exactly on this, but I recall that one of the problems with these masks is that, you know, they accumulate virus in a dangerous setting. The virus is on the outside of the mask, although I suppose it could be on the inside too. And so I think they throw them away in a medical setting. I think they throw them away because they're not convinced that the mask will hold up after washing. And they're not convinced that, you know, the washing will remove all the virus either. So I wonder if you've addressed that and whether, you know, or we just fall back on the notion that it's better to have something even if you've washed it than have nothing at all. Yeah. Well, if you wash it with soap, the soap works the way you wash your hands. Yeah. It takes the virus apart. So the most effective thing you can do is wash it. Here it doesn't stand up well to heat too. So if you actually have a dryer and put it on, you know, super hot, that it'll basically cook them as well. I don't know the science of that, but I do know the science of soap. You know, there are devices out now not vouch for how popular they are, but there are devices out now on the web and elsewhere, which are ultraviolet light. And apparently hospitals use these when they want to sterilize a room. They just have these robots that move into the room and shines a strong hope about that light all over the room. Nobody in the room, just a robot. And then when they finish, you know, the room is supposedly sanitized. And I wonder if one alternative to washing would be to run this ultraviolet light over it and kill the virus that way. It's just a thought. And I'm not even sure that ultraviolet light does what we want it to do. But that might save the mask. You know, misrepeated washings are going to, you know, they're going to have an effect on the mask. And after all, it's supposed to be, what, not airtight, but it's supposed to be close to that. And it's supposed to be, you know, stretched tight against the skin. So there's no way anything can enter from the sides. And a lot of the masks have been criticized because the loose, you know, the ones that are less, you know, less popular than the N95 masks are the ones that open on the sides. And then the virus can get in from the sides. So you don't want to break the seals, so to speak. And I think, well, this is one possibility for cleaning them without damaging the stretch fabric. But that goes to another question, Richard. Where are the patterns? You have patterns? Because you got to take the shirt or cloth and you got to cut it in exactly the right way, right? How do you do that? Yeah, it's all described in that video, the presentation there. Everything, if you had nothing but the sewing needle, you could start to make one. Yeah, so everything is there. We took the time and I got to give Laurie Farrell credit for this. She did a lot of work, you know, and anyway, so I wanted to talk to you a little bit about common sense. You know, we know that the virus will, you know, you cough, it lands on something. If it lands on cardboard, it'll be available for 24 hours. If it lands on plastic and stainless steel, it'll last maybe two, three days. Let's say three days. And then it's not able, it's not viable anymore. So let's say you go shopping and you come home with a bag of several bags of goods, and your house is perfectly a safe zone. Now, how do you get your stuff from the bag, from your other safe zone, which is your car, into your safe zone? So now you remember I said that it could only last for three days? Well, what if you did this? You took all the stuff that is wrapped in cans and stuff like that and left it out for five days. Now the virus is all gone. You just walk in your house and you still have a safe zone. And this is what is missing to this whole discussion. We need education and we need the time now when everybody's home for the Department of Education and the State to step up and do instruction stuff on TV and show kids how they can contribute to a safe zone. Then they understand why they're doing what they're doing. They got to do this now. It's the education part. But when you think about it, you say, oh, but they sanitize the store at night and then in the morning the kupuna can come in. Yeah, but they have used to it in the aisle and watch people touch this and put them back and no way I think when they sanitize they can. So you got to assume that you can bring it home with you. So you got to start to think like that. Absolutely. And the washing hands is very, very, very, very important and probably we should include washing our face with some regularity as well. So let's look at the next slide just to look at some other common sense solutions. So the next one after that. So there you see a set of just ordinary plastic ties you find in the supermarket tie up a plastic bag that can be incorporated in the construction of your mask and the instructions that Richard's team of together tells you how to do all that. So you can actually make a mask and you apply all these little plastic ties around the border so that you can get a better fit of the mask on your face like Jay was talking about. So you get that you don't get a kind of a access port for the germs to come in through the sides or the tops or whatever. So this is what I call a MacIver solution. You know MacIver that used to be a TV show. He could make anything out of anything. He'd be locked in a room and he'd have like just a newspaper or something and he could make a weapon out of it. A weaponized newspaper by rolling it out on the garden comes in. And this is kind of what you guys are doing. So I have another question. Let me say one thing about the fit. You know the fit of these masks are meant to kind of follow your face and you don't like the N95. I have N95. I walked around with them and evaluated it. It's kind of stiff and I like the idea about making a mask that's kind of flexible and fits your face you know. You might not have all the total stuff in it but and not only that you're not expecting somebody to sneeze right in your face. Right. So we can look over the world like when somebody says oh it's going to leak in. What's going to leak in? Three to four or five feet and going to leak in and it's going to kill you? No I'm sorry. That doesn't make any sense at all. When you put the mask on it improves your chances. Yeah. And I want to make this really clear. Let me explain this first. What we should be teaching is safe zones. We should be teaching okay how do you maintain a safe zone? Where is your safe zone? It's your home. How do you do that? First of all if you walked inside there and didn't move for four days it would be an automatic safe zone because the virus would all be inactive. Yeah. So now it's up to you to maintain it. Then you have a car as your safe zone. Okay what does that mean? It means you can drive all over the island. No problem. So it's a pretty big safe zone. Then if you can go anywhere that there's nobody within six feet that's huge. The only place you really got to be concerned about is when you have to walk into a store and go shopping stuff like that or take up your food things like that. So what you do is you wear your mask you get out there for the how long it takes to shop you come back and then you deal with how you get your food and yourself back into your safe zone. Yeah and how you clean off your mask. So it doesn't carry virus from what you picked up. Yeah. Yeah exactly wash them or put them in the plastic bag with the deed on it and tell you when you can use them again. You know one thing I hope you'll cover Richard is where do you get the people to do this? The volunteers I mean I'm reminded of the UK Boris Johnson went out and he requested that 250,000 volunteers to help deliver food to people. Kupuna. They have Kupuna in the UK too you know and deliver food and all this and that was yesterday in 12 hours time he had 440,000 people who volunteer and so this is begs for volunteers doesn't it? How are you getting the volunteers? You know we got people already talking to people it's a movement I can tell you I can see it happening it's a movement we're not going to have any problem getting the volunteers. First of all take care you know what you got to do is you got to take care of yourself you got to take care of your family and you got to help your community. So it seems to me if you go to the store you do your shopping and everything like that you should almost come back in and do it complete have a shower change your clothes put your clothes in the in the washer and dry there wash and dry them so like you said so you're keeping your safe zone safe it's almost like being an astronaut you know like you go out you have to go through an airlock and you have to kind of decontaminate then you come in like you say your safe zone so I think that people should be having more showers I think like at least maybe twice a day you know shower in the morning shower at night before you go to bed then you do a complete change of your clothes so that you're not carrying a bunch of residuals around with you. Yeah and you know what is the objective of this it is what what are we trying to achieve first of all we're trying to get our whole island and state from here to when there's a vaccine in other words we got to find a system that works from now to a year from now if we get something before then lucky but we got to get from here to there and the reason for it is because then we can have some stability and then you know like for example here's a good one and it's really important social equity is extremely important try to think about I was in the line talking to a lady that was the checkout and just asking her and telling her I didn't have the virus but I was practicing and then I could see that she was talking to me about this and then I could see that when when when the virus comes we'll start going up which we know it will she's going to have to choose between her job and her family it's not fair to put our people in in that place we we got to take care of these kind of people we got to get massed to them immediately and then we got to make it so that okay let me see to find out who's wearing masks because I'm afraid to go to some place where they're handing you out of the takeout window and the moment that means they're only three feet away from you it could just blow it right on top of you and you don't know right but if they were wearing masks it's a different story and if we all knew who was the they they start to get that mentality mentality hey we do so in weird normal because the danger of health is serious but the danger of economic system collapsing is as dangerous so we've got to have stability this gives us stability so who is going to actually get the mass Richard can I get one can Mitch get one you know who are you going to distribute it to and who's going to decide and who's going to actually deliver it what's the method of delivery uh the people are going to take care of their families their friends and they're starting to do it now you know and and you know take a big business that that does they don't really want to lay off the workers well you want something for the workers to do buy them a sewing machine buy them several sewing machine and make shifts and then give them away you know you know how the the rest of the people will look at a business that does that they will definitely be back to support there so that's what's going to happen and this this is what is going to happen I mean it's gonna within days it's going to happen yeah and thank you for for for letting me say this you know because this is all coming sense right and this is all our stuff we're talking well you know what you really touched on a very important point and that is we're all we're all locked up where you know we're in a kind of self-imposed quarantine or you know we're required one way or the other to stay at home and it's been a week or so it's going to be more it's going to be maybe a lot more and we're all going to get bored and wonder you know what what to do and of course there are those people are going to break through and they're going to say I'm going out I can't stand it anymore and those people who are just going to take naps all day and do completely unproductive things but making masks is productive it also that this whole discussion suggests to me that what we need to do is spend that time protecting ourselves not only by making masks but by refining the way we keep we keep the virus off us by creating a safe zone by washing more and more often by finding little tricks in life to get the virus off and keep it off because ultimately you know there are a lot of people going to get this no matter what they do but you have to think that if you take special care and they keep itself specially clean you probably have a better chance not to get it at all you know yeah and and you know and I'm not uh this guy Chris Martinson mentioned that you know with the masks the chance of getting a bigger virus load is less and and the problem now is the virus is so strong that it overwhelms our our immune system the younger people with strong immune system their their luckier but uh if if you can lessen the virus load maybe you give your sense your your your body a chance to fight back a better yeah exactly okay we have a couple we don't have scientific proof for that but it's common sense right common sense common sense goes a long way because you know sometimes you've got to govern yourself by that and I and what I hear you're saying Mitch is you're about to close the show but I want to be clear that immediately after this you're not closing the show I'm telling you anyway that right after the show is over I'm going to take a shower I'm telling you now okay I think this is everybody's team this but this is what you're essentially talking about Richard is there all these little cartoons you see here are ways to you know build that safe zone yeah yeah and we need help there yeah we need help from the department of education right to teach the kids to to put out instruction videos stuff like that on how you maintain your safe zone all these things are very important yes so who's going to do that though I mean who's going to take that kind of initiative now you guys have taken that initiative you actually said you made a video I didn't realize that this was also a video that you had is this is this a made in Hawaii presentation that you guys put together well we pulled stuff from here and there yeah okay but but this is a total local local style stuff yeah right very good yeah okay and it's mainly because they in no way we're going to give up we're just going to roll over and die there's no way that's going to happen as a matter of fact you know we were thinking in terms of energy the two existential threats which still sits below this coronavirus when this is done we still got to deal with that but imagine this where's where will Hawaii be Hawaii will be you know incredible spot because we will have geothermal energy and the geothermal energy is is is free now the heat is free and will be free for thousands of years while fossil fuel I mean we know the Russians are going to raise the price or the price is going to go up we we have no control of that but we have control of using our resource and then the next step is when it when fossil fuel starts to decline so far that we have to find an alternative what is that alternative it's likely hydrogen right Mitch absolutely hydrogen yeah so how do we do hydrogen two ways we can go take the hydrogen from from natural gas and then you got to buy the natural gas you got to take the hydrogen out then you got to pay for get rid of the carbon and then you can carry it around and and you have a clean fuel on the other hand you could make it from electricity yes you run electricity through water and you get your hydrogen oxygen right so so now it's a matter of being very clever and working with the utility and and and and and shaping in such a way that we can develop a hydrogen ecosystem you know in other words you do something that people start to move in that direction and and what little happened is Hawaii will be the leader of the world because the longer we wait the more the prices of fossil fuel will go up always won't so we'll be competitive the further we go into the future yeah next slide please so this is just a little uh public service announcement um you know i'm highlighting uh you know the team that put this together and why we're doing it and i'm going to cut now to our final slide okay so in red um the link to all this information uh that everybody can go to i also put in a plug for you there richard the sustainable energy hawaii which is organization and you have a great little logo there the light bulb and the uh and the sailing canoe out there that's great yeah nicer yeah so a really good takeaway from this is with everybody who's watching this and grab that uh website uh link and get onto the website and see the whole thing and in slow motion and you can read i mean there's a lot more i just we just grabbed a few little frames uh out of the overall presentation but they have very very detailed instructions on how to set up your sewing machine how to actually sew these masks um it's really really well done so i'd like to congratulate you uh Richard on doing that it's not me you know we we have a hell of a team you wouldn't believe you know it's it's it's amazing i my job is just to not it look wise yeah well but you had the idea Richard and that's the important thing and you came up with this right and that and that's the leadership part yeah you're making take about you're allowed to do that i don't know where to stick myself i think the information that we got out today was really worth uh worth the extra 15 minutes i think jay would agree with me and so that's okay i'm signing off jay always wants me to sign off quickly so that's it hello hop okay all right let's take a shower all right everybody in the shower all right