 Awesome. Thanks everyone. How's everyone doing today? So any hangovers from the dry farm wines yesterday? That's the burning question. I want to get the answer to Terrific. Well, thanks so much for coming out. Let's get a sense of really who's in the room How many sort of docs or practitioners we have hands in the air? People okay people that are strength coaches or nutrition trainers people who are Here to improve their health Terrific. Well Today we're going to talk about some things that for myself going through School and university as well as my natural practice degree this idea of ancestral health really became a key stone of how I practice So so today we're going to do a brief introduction to that we're Basketball player Football player and gymnast and how this sort of ancestral template fits in and some of these themes Which are which permeate through sports nutrition and performance But which for me in my bias is that they are really ancestral teams So to kick things off here. I mean for myself. I actually did my undergrad up the road at UBC University of British Columbia in Vancouver 2001 graduated was going to get into medicine and I had some health complications playing sport and whatnot and some digestive issues So I thought to myself well, I'm gonna go into medicine I want to you know really be able to tie in nutrition in these things and I was going around campus asking the Docs in the medical school about how nutrition connected with medicine and of course wasn't very much So it's a little disillusion went over to the strength and conditioning side. It was sort of the same idea You know nutrition digestion all these things were very siloed So as you do at that time, I just decided well, I'll take some time off You know do the backpacking thing I end up traveling various countries and working as a trainer in the UK And I was amazed as a personal trainer, you know working with diet working with exercise working with lifestyle modifications all the benefits That we could give folks just in terms of the general health So for me 2006 that circled back from me going back to 2005 2006 to naturopathic medical school and this is where it was really cool because now in the online world with blogs and Podcasts and everything else that seemed like a lot of other folks were connecting these dots and it was you know much bigger community And so when I looked at you know the definitions of the ancestral health society, you know We can see here you know to collaborate to understand health challenges phenomenal And of course motivated by a belief that evolution has much to teach us and of course in my opinion I've added for athletic performance and recovery as well. Okay, so with that in mind. Let's take a look at some of these case studies The first is an NBA player with chronically low vitamin D status now this is a Player came to me, you know several years with very low vitamin D levels. You see there are 10 nanograms per mil You know flu's often Missing time practices games etc kind of guy who was always on the training table right the Therapists would say this person is always struggling with no major injuries, but a lot of nagging stuff And of course his history as well They dosed him up with a lot of high-dose vitamin D over the years and and not been able to have a shift And of course the question was well African-american player, you know his genetic background have a role to play here It was a you know darker skin complexion as well Is there's some kind of disease process going on, you know the medical staff had had gone through and not seen anything But is there's something? more profound going on Did he actually have good nutritional status was maybe using it up more effectively? the real question was Before we jump into to that let's take a step back and look at what vitamin D can do for athletic performance And of course this has to do with vitamin D status Right, and so things like increased muscular strength increased force and power production Reduced recovery time even VO2 max as well as body composition. There's all there's a lot of associations with vitamin D status The tricky part is that these are there's conflicting evidence in the research, right? Performance just by increasing someone's vitamin D status via supplementation We don't see the associative increases in all these parameters So what the heck's going on here and how do we get to this deeper layer of sort of the root cause of In this case this person's lower vitamin D status So if we look at metabolism vitamin D, of course from the Sun from our diet or through supplementation We get conversion in the liver to 25 hydroxy and of course into the kidneys and 125 hydroxy And that's that active form in circulation So let's go back to our NBA player. What's going on? Well, let's get a look into their daily life What what do they do it a day basis? Well most of the time if you're on the road You wake up in a hotel, all right dark room. They have breakfast inside the hotel. They get into a bus Transport to a practice facility again inside all they long at the practice facility once they get treatment They go back to the hotel inside again. If you just came from Dan's talk fantastic all about sleep They go for their afternoon nap, which is a nice thing But of course staying inside games in the evening. So there's really a major lack of outdoor light And this is one of the central themes here of really getting back to just sleep and circadian rhythm Circadian biology and we see that today obviously is hugely popular, but this is something that's definitely deeply rooted in ancestral health and so That was one of the first aspects. How do we get this player outside more? How do we get him exposed to more light? If we look a little bit deeper, we say well, you know after games practices, they're going back to the hotel There's a lot of late night eating And most of the time again in terms of if they're going to be in their plan in terms of nutrition You know, there's a lot of late night Oreos late night treats late night sugars So again a real mismatch to what in terms of our evolutionary process and so how does this impact other areas of health? Well, when we look at things like blood sugar balance, this is a really for a key component for this player You know things like HA1C, which is this three month average blood sugars We can see well, you know, it's on the higher side, but not not picking up any red flags from the from the traditional medical staff Of course We dig a little bit deeper into things like fasting insulins and glucose all of a sudden we see that there is something deeper going on We also see things in terms of inflammatory issues with CRP levels being elevated Of course CRP's acute phase reactant. It's going to be highly variable But these are markers that have been done over over time right three four times a year and this is a player We consistently see these patterns and again, we're never taking things in isolation. We're not just taking biomarkers from the labs It's also in conjunction with the symptoms that the the athletes presenting with what the folks in the training table are seeing and also what the Coaches are seeing on the court so when we look at this idea this connection with blood sugars and vitamin D a lot of the research is done on on White populations, but we see more now in terms of here's a black and white community dwelling adults and there's strong Associations between lower 25 hydroxy vitamin D and things like poor blood sugar control insulin resistance and inflammation The really interesting thing here is that you know, this player was not obese and by any means was very lean and Inspection, you know pretty much see a six pack so everyone assumes when we see somebody that's that lean We just assume a certain level of health This gets really interesting because when we dig further into How and if you work with with athletes or in your facility if you're using, you know, calipers versus bod pod versus dexa scans This is where you can start to see some real discrepancies Heather Springer is one of the head physiologists at the CSI the K-Sport Institute on the east coast in Toronto And at one of her talks a few years ago She'd mentioned that you know if for a highly skilled Practitioner using calipers. It's typically about a two percent discrepancy to the bod pod And maybe about a three percent discrepancy to the dexa scan because again no matter how good you are at pinching Subcutaneous fat you cannot pinch between your liver and your kidneys Right and so when you get into the dexa scan all of a sudden if you're seeing certain players were Elevated levels of body fat especially around the internal organs. This is where for this player We were seeing a body fat percentage that was more like 12.8 13 percent, which is a marked difference This is really interesting as well because there's a few other docs In the UK and Australia Dr. Daniel Plews and Paul Larson that had some reported some findings in an Ironman athletes with a similar Connotations in terms of the athlete being looking very lean But on further inspection we get into dexes and whatnot. We're seeing actually much greater Visceral fat stores and what we would expect so again all this goes back to this idea of okay Well, what is this athlete eating? What's their diet look like? And so for this player? You know, this is a common thing that you find I mean egg white only breakfast And this is when we start thinking back of the populations and you know yesterday You know Daryl touched on it in the panel of you know depending on who your parents are and what kind of diets that they followed All of a sudden in certain communities if cholesterol is an issue if heart disease is an issue You know fearing the egg yolk is a big problem And so you'll see often in these populations Steering away from having things like the egg yolk this player had you know very low intake of things like fish as well Lower vitamin A status didn't eat a lot of fruits and vegetables. Definitely not a lot of orange colored vegetables as well You see a higher sugar and processed food and of course the late-night eating was definitely really profound Especially late-night sugars, which is you tend to see a lot and athletes professional athletes as well as you know collegiate level athletes And of course it's been cut off here But the Lancet when we look at vitamin D as more of a we think that today could be more of a biomarker for health and ill health So is it telling us more about the state of the health of our athlete versus simply trying to correct the number We're seeing in our results simply trying to get that vitamin D back to you know 30 to 40 nanograms per mil So what did we do well this is where You know, I think the art of coaching becomes really important as if you're a primary care physician, especially your practitioner Definitely obviously if you're a coach But being able to get to your clients and the folks that you work with to be able to make changes Right. We always assume that we can just provide people information and they will take up that information and do as we've told them And we see definitely in the mainstream medical model. This just isn't the case Chronic disease, you know 90% now diet exercise lifestyle based right So what do we do well in the mornings? It basically said Can you give me 20 to 30 minutes? So when you're on the road? Rather than staying in your room and going down to the breakfast area in the hotel I want you to get outside You know this player in particular like to be updating connecting with folks on social media or email and whatnot first thing in the morning Anyway, he was doing it lying in his bed. Why don't we just get him outside? Whether it's on a patio balcony, etc When he was at home, he lived in a very temperate climate. So there was lots of Sun So we said hey get outside no shirt do your morning catch ups You know catching up with emails, etc for that time So you got outside in the morning as well as the midday and this was a really key one as well Walking home from practice. He didn't live far from the facility Can't always do this when you're on the road, but the same idea tank top Getting more just daily sun exposure because again this player would need quite a lot from a day to day It was really getting you know almost less than 30 minutes of outdoor exposure We look at the diet is adding very simple things in adding egg yolks back to the diet a Like a lot of professional athletes having access to a personal chef makes things can make things a heck of a lot easier when you Just say okay. We want to put more of these back into the diet So mushrooms in the omelettes in the morning adding back the egg yolks. He was amenable We went through various options. You can see the vitamin D rich foods there in the bottom We went through different options that he wouldn't wouldn't do and I think this is a really important conversation to have with your clients or your Athletes, you know, you can give them a list of foods and I think this is sort of a classic method that we would typically do and Dieticians etc just handing out a sheet of foods that are high in that well if the person's not going to eat them Then then what good does that really serve right and so we managed to find to nail down some options for him So we did, you know increased status that way as well We added in a supplement you know food source supplement from from Norwegian cod liver oil versus just D vitamin D emulsified drops and The big one here as well was the blood sugar control issue like rather than waking up in the morning and having copious amounts of juice having pancakes with maple syrup having Cereals granoles etc. We had to to monitor that and switch that and he was obviously better when he was at home And someone was preparing his food, but on the road This is one again if you don't teach that behavior piece if you don't develop those habits in the person They're always going to revert back to what they'd done previously We also increased his protein intake at all across the board. I think that's a classic one Especially whether it's recreational athletes elite professional athletes as the seasons go on as stress goes up They naturally start to reduce their intake of foods Most of the time they don't perceive it oftentimes the coaches and therapists don't perceive it But that's a really big one especially for things like immunity and recovery and Around the sugar consumption I mean it's really difficult to make someone who eats a lot of sugar to convert them overnight to someone who doesn't eat a Lot of sugar so we sort of bargained a little bit halfway of Trying to remove it as best we could in the late night and just placing it more pre pre practice During practice these areas where we're just going to be using glucose anyway And as a way to kind of change behavior, so that was again another strategy that he was he decided he was okay with that and So in terms of results this was you know surprising even for myself This was 12 weeks on you know from this end of the off season end of the season to Throughout the off season to the start of the season, you know his vitamins D status came up double And of course the tricky part when you're working in real time is was it the sun exposure outside? Was it the food was it the supplement? And of course in performance You know outcome is the thing that matters most and so it would be great to circle back and figure out how we can nail down the right approach, but The beauty of an ancestral approach and sort of a functional approach is we want to be drip feeding these changes in anyway, right? And so the outcome is really what we're after and we saw you know in terms of Inflammatory levels down he also during that season had the least amount of gains in this so we were able to Maintain a lot of these habits throughout the year Which was which was a big win and a big win for the staff and it comes back to the second theme for me Which is you know human first For a lot of these athletes who are genetically gifted, you know, especially in sports nutrition sports supplementation We're always looking for that thing that we're going to give them that's going to give them that extra 5% or 10% Well, if you have an athlete who has a 44 inch vertical or the fastest player on the court Do you really need to give them anything that's going to enhance their physical capacity in that sense? Or do you just need to make them a healthy person? To then allow them to use their natural gifts to keep them from getting sick to keep them from getting run down And I think this is a big theme that's come across now in human performance Is this idea of human first and just creating healthy people and therefore allowing them to perform the best? Perfect the next one was a football player African-american as well offensive lineman getting towards the end of his career the classic sort of chronic knee chronic shoulder chronic elbow pain Had weight gain over the last few seasons. It was playing at a heavier weight than he normally would be playing at and he was you know Considering retirement wondering what he was gonna wondering what he's gonna do But decided he wanted to give it one last shot in terms of trying to tweak his nutrition Training to be able to reduce some of that discomfort and pain as well as just to get leaner. So we see here You know depending on where you play, you know 324 for an offensive lineman might not be too heavy, but for him that was on the heavier side body fat percentage 24% but a lot of these concomitant things that you tend to see with people with significant abdominal adiposity and whether it's in clinical practice or again with athletes and This is a special attention to athletes who are playing sports where there's the you know bigger in terms of size So rugby players shop putters football players because we know as we get greater abdominal out of posse Things change in terms of gut microbiota things change in terms of total inflammatory response, which we'll we'll get into here But his clinical presentation wasn't too dissimilar from the previous Case study really high inflammatory levels again hA1C doesn't look that bad initially But when you look deeper into the insulin function and home IR we're seeing again You know just a reflection that his dietary choices aren't meeting what he really needs right again low vitamin D status as well Okay, and this is a football player. So he's actually spending a lot of time outside Right again that first example is really a classic one if you think of athletes who play indoor sports Whether it's basketball players hockey players gymnast people who spend their day You know like us inside a room and it's going to be definitely be on the lower side GGT is a liver enzyme. It's one of those ones. Has anyone seen Super Size Me? Yeah, after they you know he gets his decides he's gonna eat McDonald's for 30 days and gets his blood It's his blood test done a couple weeks later goes back in to see his doc and the doc's eyes Almost pop out of his head because he's looking at the liver enzymes and they're through the roof and he's worried for this guy's health and safety Right and so GGT is definitely a marker as we're over consuming calories and carbohydrates and sugars we're gonna see that elevation there and that normally is a Happens before we even see changes and things like you know insulin and the hA1C's So this theme here the third thing for me is this idea of periodized nutrition You know throughout history. We would have had moments where we ate a little bit less or a little bit more Now as Dr. Cordain rightly pointed out to me, you know hunter-gatherers were very skilled at getting food So it's not like they were starving, but there was definitely fluctuations in terms of intake And when we look at just definitions if we look at what is periodization? So Dr. Brad Schoenfeld is a heavyweight in the research of strength and conditioning Your periodization is a general concept. It's not this rigid or defined method and The essence of periodization is to manipulate training variables to optimize the fitness outcome So the cool part is that we can also do this in nutrition And so periodized nutrition, which is something that again in sport and in bodybuilding and various things has been used without this Title for for many many years, but it's now something that's definitely well-recognized in the literature ask or do you conjure? This refers to a strategic Combined use of exercise and nutrition right to maximize a fitness goal or a body composition goal and so for me seeing this in clinical practice with Again rugby players football players heavier hockey players shop putters this idea of having periods where we're going to start to change The intake because these people are so used to being heavier and there's a lot of pressure as well depending on the coaching staff To have their players meet a certain requirement, right? They want their linemen to be a certain weight regardless of even if they're slowing down if they're less powerful, etc So what's one of the problems? Well, one of the problems is the sort of cafeteria diet, which Dr. Sven Guinez obviously talks so well about and all the mechanisms behind why we choose to over consume but this is one of the issues right this is where the players are eating all day long and Of course in the off-season, there's no real off-season for the consumption because what happens in the off-season is they don't go Into a caloric deficit we get into even more of a caloric surplus as they get to take some time off Which is going to exacerbate a lot of the things that we saw because as we look at the research You know the more belly fat we're holding on to we see increases in fasting insulin We see increases in inflammatory markers like CRP and IL-6 We see increased likelihood of zonulin dysfunction that key marker that helps to promote a gut strong gut barrier function and of course We get a change in the microbiota So as you see with your clients as there's more abdominal out of paucity We know that there's going to be changes in terms of healthy gut microbiome More dysfunction more dysbiosis You know the acquisition what's called a Western microbiome which which alters the metabolic capacity and aggravates these inflammatory responses and of course strong relationship with things that whenever players are trying to maintain size they Effectively end up deviating to which is things like breads cereals processed carbs and things that they find in the cafeteria Setting where they're training to just get enough calories in through the day And so again for me this fourth theme is this idea of just a healthy gut microbiota and this is also a bit like vitamin D rather than trying to Manipulate the microbiota of just saying well This is another general marker that tells me about the overall status of the person And so we're starting to see if we see low vitamin D status if we start to see more altered Microbiota markers we're just basically telling us back to that human first model This person is not consuming the right nutritional approach or there's some real gaps in what they're doing in terms of the tailored approach So what do we do? Well? This is where you know, I try to stay away from labels and and defining diets. I think If you work with Various other groups, so there's dietitians docs anyone else these labels as we know can be really limiting You know for some people the word paleo, which I'm sure for a lot of us in this room is something that's really motivating and positive in other rooms it would be not that it could be the opposite so things like low-carb things like keto as well Trying to stay away from that and even using this umbrella term of periodized nutrition because ironically everyone can agree on that But if we start using other terms people tend to immediately Get into some kind of pre-existing bias that they already have which I find creates a lot of roadblocks Even though we're all trying to get to the same destination, which is to improve the player's outcome So for this player, it was pretty straightforward. I mean we're reducing a lot of the processed carbohydrates and sugars some of the complex carbohydrates Increasing his overall fat intake and his training in the offseason was two-a-day training So doing hit training in the morning lifting in the afternoon So there was periods of you know sleep low strategies where we would reduce Carbohydrate after the PM session and not provide any in the morning Nothing too exotic but quite straightforward to help improve body composition and see if we could get some reductions in in inflammation and pain So again, what did we swap out? Nothing, you know for people into this room nothing. That's too Striking again cereals pancakes toast a lot of the pre-workout formulas that were just you know 40 grams of Multidextrin every time, you know, do we need some of these things caffeine the amounts of caffeine? I think a lot of Players don't realize that they're if they're having a venti or a tray into at Starbucks and then also adding on top of that They're two three four hundred milligrams in their pre-workout just how much caffeine they're getting And we're seeing a lot of really cool research in the nutrigenomics world around caffeine intake and performance And there's a group of ultra slow metabolizers, which is about 10% of the population that actually get performance Decrements or decreases from caffeine from modest amounts of caffeine So that's again an area of sort of personalized or precision nutrition where we can start to figure out If that's a negative for your athlete So again for this individual, you know Responded really well weight came flying down so much again the coaches were a little concerned body fat came down He had reductions in pain But again something that you I'm sure if you're a coach or nutritionist out there We see this a lot in endurance athletes as well We start to get into this idea of periodized nutrition And changing the the amount of sugars we start to see a lot of improvements around GI function So just we move away from this constant state of chronic gas bloating discomfort And players just feel better, right? We also see a lot of improvements in sleep quality So this is someone who used a CPAP machine, you know by the end of the off season He's barely using a CPAP machine and sleeping sleep quality and improved marketing. So You know for this player actually when we and here's his lab results here as well So again Decreases and all these things and these are affected if you are working with medical staff or medical teams because when they see markers like this Improving then all of a sudden, you know the the therapies or the nutritional changes that you're making I've got a little bit more to stand on as well His playing weight. He actually came up to about three ten three twelve But maintained a lot of the improvements that he'd seen in function So in terms of that nagging shoulder nagging knees, you know, it was a lot better And he's actually still in a league and this is third year from from when we saw him So again, you know without a lot of buy-in from the player I tried out whether I'm in regular practice with my patients or with athletes We're always trying to how little do they have to do to get the maximum amount of gain And I think that's where a lot of these ancestral themes are fantastic because if we can convince people to do these things They're very modest in terms of the buy-in, but we can get a lot of great outcomes as well Awesome the last one here is definitely something that is new to me As a dad with two girls under four Nutrition for for women nutrition for sport is definitely something that's become more to the forefront You could associate this with the youths in general, but this will be more related to the female Athletes as well and this idea of just nutrient deficiency I'm sure you're all familiar with what the health Documentary on Netflix and this is you know in an era of Misinformation or or fake news. This is really tricky because most athletes And even at Canada basketball, I mean we do the nutrition I do the nutrition for our Olympic team, but it goes all the way down to our youth of 13 year olds And this is actually something again that was mentioned the panel yesterday is that you know we Instructing the 13 14 15 year olds we get their parents in as well And so we start to get this trickle down effect a lot of these notions around Cholesterol and saturated fat and we get to the source which is again the parents and whatnot But but a lot of young people now are seeing this information and this is what they're running with and so It creates a scenario where nutrient deficiency is much more likely and of course This is a very common one that we're all familiar with but this ancestral theme of nutrient density And this is sometimes where I really struggle with the classical Dietetics approach to things is that we almost it doesn't seem like we care where things are coming from If you attended Ben Lynch's talk this morning There doesn't seem to be any discrepancy between the folic acid from their cereal versus what they might get Which for me is a little bit irritating So we see here things like iron and zinc obviously really important iron is Very obvious in terms of energy levels training recovery hemoglobin myoglobin electron transport chain energy levels just massively important But zinc as well Only immunity recovery, but we're seeing Which I'll get to in a minute here things around you know eating disorders, which is really really compelling Symptoms that you're gonna see in your you know athletes or they're very general They're tricky to pick up because things like fatigue poor recovery frequent infections I mean any athlete training intensely can have a lot of these symptoms, right? altered menses, etc The thing that I think we can as a you know practitioners Trainers nutritionist doc is just start to change the the mindset most young athletes You know you're gonna get up in the morning and have a bowl of cereal They're gonna have a couple granola bars for the day They're gonna have a sandwich and they're gonna have a bowl of pasta for dinner and all of a sudden we think well Wait a minute what's going on with the amount of nutrients that we're able to get in especially these key minerals, you know Coffee caffeine intake. I'm a big coffee fan, but obviously to you can get too much of a good thing And of course decrease in animal protein and protein intake overall is definitely something that just in terms of immunity Recovery is so critical for for young athletes, especially and it's something that's definitely lacking as well as things like red meat Seafood organ meats is another story. I mean, that's very low intake if any at all. And so chicken ends up being kind of the primary Primary stores now it really blew me away was a few years ago Dr. James Greenblatt who runs a eating disorder clinic on the East Coast had given a presentation at a medical conference And low zinc status was something that came out for them on multiple eating disorders And when I had a chance to chat with him after the conference He had mentioned that effectively if all they do is correct for zinc status They have significant improvements in whether it's anorexia, bulimia, etc. And so for me again with this ancestral template in this idea of we're just the grain-based Consumption that we see in younger athletes of processed food It's just such an easy win to help fix a lot of this stuff and in sports like Gymnastics where there's a heavy heavy pressure on body composition It becomes really really significant and it's something that's not emphasized really that much in a traditional setting So it's another area that I think we can really move the needle I think I'm getting a little behind on time here But again the traditional would just be all it slap an iron supplement on or we'll do a ferret and only test versus being more Methodical in terms of how we run full iron panels, etc And of course at the end of the day the solution is really straightforward, right? Let's get more These animal proteins healthy animal proteins in Let's also as best we can try to reduce the intakes and again Work with the person in front of you, right? You've got to push them just beyond their capacity It's the same thing in the gym if they just walked in you wouldn't give them a 1 RM for a 400 pound deadlift Don't throw five six seven eight things at them at once right drip feed the changes in create new habits And in your athletes and your clients and then you'll get some real sustained sustained benefit So for me these have been you know the big rocks for my clinical practice You know diet exercise lifestyle these ancestral themes are massive I think from a from an athletic standpoint as well of these themes are and there's many more as well on the ancestral side But these are really fundamental themes and you're actually seeing them in performance nutrition I don't think as many folks relate them to this ancestral theme But again, you know my bias is definitely that they're steep deeply rooted in an ancestral health Awesome. Well, if you enjoyed the talk check out my podcast I actually just had Dan party on talking all sleep and circadian biology so you can you can check that out my book the paleo project as well, they actually if you If you shoot me an email, we don't have any books here But if you if you reach out to me there info doctor bubs calm We've got a whole bunch of e-book free e-book versions of it So just shoot me an email and give you a little little swag for coming to the conference We'll give you a copy of the book as well And of course you can reach out doctor bubs calm and on social media at doctor bubs Awesome. Thanks so much for your time Nice job catching up in the end there. He finished right on time. Okay. We do have some time for questions There's a mic over there you can line up at or if you're on this side of the room raise your hand I can bring you the mic We'll take a question over here first. Well, that's getting set up. I Just want to share with you a success story. I'm not a doctor, but I know paleo and I convinced a Italian woman athlete To go to paleo. She was eating healthy, but she wasn't paleo. She went to paleo and Low carb except right after training. She only did her carbs during Right after training the all her other meals were low carb. Anyway she went on She's cross-country skier to make the Olympic team at 45 Fantastic, she went to the Olympics and was the oldest competitor there And she Tributes her change and her success to low carb paleo And that's a great remark in terms of I mean A great remarks of longevity, which is sort of a key piece to this as well And I think it's really key as well to know your athletes like using those terms of the paleo and low carb or are fantastic But if you do have a client that doesn't resonate with or you know, they're working with a team Then again Call it by another name, but use the same strategies and you'll get those responses, right call it nutritional periodization Fantastic. We have one over there I think as people increase their workload, they're going to increase their hunger signals As they stay up later as Dan so rightly mentioned the the caloric So the signal to eat more is also going to go up Um, you know focusing on protein is definitely is key. So getting in Again knowing your client whether it's shakes whether it's jerky whether it's meals whether You know finding those strategies that work for that person I think it can also be used as a bit of a red flag I know the ironman athletes that I have or the triathletes that I have That sort of scenario where they're walking home from work and they go by a corner store And they buy two bags of twizzlers and knock back both of them. It's a good It's a good Red flag for the fact that they're not consuming enough caloric intake or you know in terms of nervous system fatigue because that's definitely one that You'll see and and so you know in terms of late night strategies You know finding the right foods for that person But making sure that first off their meals are big enough and then frequent eating patterns to the day Just as much as for myself in regular populations I'm trying to get people away from snacking It's just sort of an easier way to get back to three square meals in athletic populations of you know Getting people to focus back on regular meals as well as regular snacks Because you'd be surprised even in you know nba and professional basketball There's these huge gaps in the day where they might go five six hours sometimes without proper nutrition which sounds counterintuitive but Yeah, sorry if I can't give any more specific answers than that, but hopefully that helps. Great. Thanks You don't have any strategies for um people that have moral and ethical issues with meat You know like that. So you have a lot of athletes who are like, oh, I'm gonna get in shape, but you know I'm a vegan or I'm a seven day adventist Yeah, and so I so I try to take the labels off of everything I always tell my clients first off I'm just going to tell you what your body needs and then we'll look at where it comes from first And all of a sudden if we start to see again Typically you're just going to start to see all more animal protein and fats and everything else And so we start to have that conversation around why are you doing what you're doing because a lot of people You know when I was at university, I was vegan. I was struggling with dairy It was the late 90s the internet had just been invented or you know first email account And You felt a lot better But you keep going down that rabbit hole now we're consuming a lot of grains and processed food And so making that switch over to more of a ancestral primal, you know helped me a lot But this is where I think the conversation around just bringing it back around to what they need Why they're doing what they're doing because for a lot of folks who are just doing it for health reasons And that's when we can start to say well, here's all your biomarkers. Here's what you're experiencing Like you're not in good health So we need to make what are you willing to do? And I think as a natural human Folks like in a regular medical paradigm. It's just the doctor knows and they give the information Patient and the patient supposed to just absorb it. Um, but I think we need to have more of this communication style of okay Well, let's let's see what we can do To have You know some ground beef or or whatever else like just trying to drip feed those changes in um, and a little bit of education around the fact that they're you know They're likely eating more processed food than they think So you'll see a lot of the faux meats and then the diet of all of a sudden if we're eating a fake sauce It's a fake burger and a fake steak for the day of the wait again, what's the Here um And you'll see some client some athletes that'll just flip a switch and they'll be ready to jump jump over Others you'll be able to feel that kind of resistance and you've just got to play the long game and say well, okay Well, we need to change these biomarkers we need to change how you're feeling So let's you know What little things can we do now and then slowly because what tends to happen with those folks is once they start feeling better All of a sudden the changes go that much more quickly and you end up getting to where you want to go without having to to push that It's like a lot of things you got to let the person feel like they came to it themselves Versus saying hey, this is a great thing. I want you to do this And it gets back that idea of coaching and reading all those great coaching books and how to kind of influence um without Just telling people what to do When you say low carb Do you mean uh cutting the complex carbohydrates out and including fruit? And I heard you mention also the second part of this question is you did include some sugars during workout or during their training What kind of stuff are you including in that if if you don't mind sharing? Yeah, I mean low carbs a general term and again You're gonna watch the terms to kind of use the athletes but to give you an example Another client was 375 pounds. It was eating 800 grams of carbohydrate So putting him on a diet that had 300 grams of carbohydrate was technically a relative low carb diet for him, right? So it's a general term in terms and most of the time I mean The reason why it works so well in general practice for things like diabetes is such a simple message Right, you reduce carbs. You basically get out all the processed food and all the sugars So most of the time you're gonna get nice big drops in those areas When we look at people who are more elite athletes, you know carbohydrates become key for maintaining work output during exercise You know mike nelson here in the crowd Phenomenal physiologists will tell you first that you know to make Capacity is so key for the adaptations to exercise So that's where then we start drip feeding in some fuel before exercise where we can now take advantage of the fuel Because the notion that just carbs are bad or carbs are evil even that You know technically sugar, you know if we're fueling training in terms of glucose That's the primary fuel source. So just kind of strategically using it Um and again in these circles we kind of use those words like keto and low carb and everything else But I would say if you get it more out in the general, you know using terms like periodized nutrition You end up talking about the same thing, but you get less Pushback from the folks that you're dealing with