 We read through the staff overview due to the state of emergency declared by Governor Scott as a result of the COVID-19 pandemic. The design review committee is authorized to meet electronically and in accordance with Act 92, there is no physical location to observe and listen to this meeting. Public access however is being provided in accordance with a temporary amendment to the meeting's law. The design review committee is providing access to this meeting by hosting the video including both video and telephone access options with additional access through live streaming of the meeting which we are using Zoom meeting for the remote meeting. I'm going to need to share my screen real quick. I have to open her email, she sent it through an email, now I can share screen. I'm going to go through and mention that anyone who is viewing this on ORCA, so all members of the design review committee have the ability to communicate at the same time during this meeting through this platform and the public has access to listen and if desired participate in this meeting by real time by joining the Zoom meeting at this address which you can also get by going online to the city website and going to the agendas and this link is also provided or by calling in at this number here and if you're calling in the meeting ID in the password is here again these are all these all can also be found online and I'll leave this up for a few minutes. We previously gave notice of public of the necessary information for accessing this meeting including how to access this meeting using telephone or video is posted in the agenda and the instructions have also been provided on the city's website which is shown here. If you have any problems accessing this meeting please email me Mike Miller and Miller at Montpelier-VT.org or if you have difficulties while accessing the video you can also contact me through the chat function we generally have two people usually monitoring so I will be trying to do both assistance with the meeting as well as following the chat so please be patient with me on that and when you have logged on to the meeting you should have an opportunity to tell the moderator me which applications you wish to comment on when the chair announces that a time for public comment for applications arrives the moderator will unmute members of the public based on the order you've submitted in ten or if you're interested in speaking and did not say you'd like to speak previously please raise your hand or state your name if you're unmuted and city staff will add you to the queue once the chair has recognized you to participate the moderator will unmute the microphone and confirm that you can be heard you're then free to provide your questions and comments aiming to keep them two minutes the members will have an opportunity to respond or ask questions of you and the applicant may have an opportunity to respond the chair may grant additional time for speakers who have follow-up questions and comments if you have finished your microphone will be muted again the chair will then call upon the next person to speak you will be able to provide additional input but only after the chair has recognized you again if no one requests to provide additional information the chair will move on continuing the meeting if necessary in the event the public is unable to access this meeting it will be continued to a time and place certain please note that all votes taken at during this meeting are that are not unanimous will need to be done by roll call vote in accordance with the law and i'll now hand it back over to steve everett we'll move forward with the do i hear a motion to approve the agenda i move to approve the agenda second do i hear a second yeah seconds all in favor of the agenda speak your names here steve okay the agenda is approved unless anybody has any other comments we'll move forward to the first application for 34 berry street washington county middle health regarding exterior renovations associated with the change of use is there someone from washington county or a representative who can explain the application uh michael curtis from washington county uh jay sent an email to city staff i'd like to defer to him to go ahead and talk okay so or the architects on it michael v from our offices also on to be screensharing exhibits uh michael i thought it might first be just you give it like a paragraph or two of just to what you see the building be used for and what it provides for your services okay thank you so washington county mental health currently operates a uh day program for people with serious and persistent mental illnesses that's at 157 berry it's in a very old house that has limited accessibility old steep staircases as a food shelf in it that's on the third floor many of the clients can't get out to it we've been looking for an accessible space to move that so that's what we propose to do with what we refer to as the middle section of the of 34 berry street the front section we propose to house therapists who will be serving uh youth and young adults in an intensive outpatient program which is a form of therapy that's uh typically used for kids with significant needs we're hoping that in the rear section we can convert that to an accessible apartment that we could make available to the the same client group as would be served in the middle section so adults with severe and persistent mental illness okay so we looked at the building with them i think that russian county found that this existing brick building i think from the 40s to be sort of rather stark and devoid of of detail um and we're interested in someone of a stronger presence they needed to provide as michael said accessibility to the three sections of the building the forward section is is raised so we would be looking at a ramp there to be a concrete ramp with railing um and then the on the site there will also be some handicap parking spaces two van accessible and one automobile one for the front area and two for the side part of providing for the ramp was going to need a larger landing at the top of the of the ramp as well as a canopy to provide some cover currently the forms uh have a have a curve to them a little bit of as was noted by one of the members of washington county almost sort of a bit of a deco flavor and they thought about perhaps that we might sort of play upon uh that concept and so that's kind of what what we took as a little bit of a lead and looking at how we might add add some interest to it uh why don't mike veedy if you can screen share our exhibits so this is a sheet um which shows the composite of what we're looking to do down in the lower uh area you see sort of the color rendering with the brick building and we're leaving the sort of large picture windows in but one of the elements of sort of that that style of architecture is a little bit more a breakup of fenestration it's an aluminum window and we're looking at adding some uh mutton divisions within that such that it would add a little bit of greater interest we're also looking at adding some banding which was sort of a part of that period then there are which later we can show you uh there's some precedent for some of this type of treatment on berry street which is a rather eclectic combination of architecture uh so we would be adding this this banding um which you see as well as the sort of larger canopy overhang and the railing of the ramp uh the building really has no needs a new roof it doesn't have any insulation so we're going to be insulating the roof which will also give us an opportunity for a little larger and wider uh cornice at the top then and the front of the building is the brick and we're basically going to leave the brick as is uh as we move around to the side now we're on that you can uh so he's drawing to the front now this is sort of the west side where mike's hand is which is all black and that is painted kind of a light almost cream yellow color and we're basically going to look at leaving that we would be adding some new new windows and of a combination of uh sort of fixed and awning and again trying to sort of respond to that style a little bit there would also be some of these areas of banding which would be attached to the building we are thinking we might use of materials such as boral if you're familiar with that it's a reconstituted fly ash it's totally rot resistant uh so it doesn't break down and we would likely color that um sort of a light gray similar to the foundations on the building so it would sort of respond to that material precedent we would also have two smaller canopies at the two entrances on this side one the far left being the apartment and then the right so that's that area of community more communal sort of food service area as we move to the the left or to the north because of this being an apartment we need um some uh egress windows so we're looking at adding some larger egress windows these will be um sliders that we can provide for the area required for egress and then there's one if you move down looking at the north facade uh which will provide access for a bedroom at that location um if we look back at the site plan there are currently 16 parking places uh at the site in this district in this area none are required but we will maintain 14 we will be reducing by two in order to provide the accessible spaces so there's a on the uh sort of west north the southwest corner there's an accessible fan space and then we hope to provide a small area for accessibility pedestrian accessibility to the front as well as then the ramp at that location there will then be another van accessible space on the west sort of in the center area of the building there which will provide van access into this central third of the building and then finally a automobile accessible space uh at the further south end which provides access to the door that will go into the apartment um so that's a quick overview our our basic materials of the building will remain as they are uh we will be adding some of this administration and detailing to window and uh some banding again to provide a good added interest that's a quick overview uh questions uh maybe one thing i'll show you uh looking at the you know one of the things you got you look at is sort of context uh we have a few exhibits we can show you that on berry street oh did you let's see the existing should we look at the existing images first mic so they can see that so here's the existing if you're not familiar yeah so um the upper three there are sort of the existing building which as you see is pretty stark and there's a little bit of the precedent of the curved canopy above and the curved stair below which we will be kind of repeating but making them larger in relationship to the handicap ramp and then adding some of the bending those existing windows will remain but we'll be adding some of that horizontal banding within them they are alone and then at the bottom you see the west elevation which is the sort of yellow cream uh block we will be maintaining that would be changing out a few of the doors and we're looking at a at going to a different color scheme whether we keep the cream but we'd have sort of doors that would be of a blue color um and perhaps some of the trim and a few windows would be added we're thinking would be a pella um fiberglass black so it won't necessarily relate to the color scheme in front but as you see it's very different from that that element jay your your your morale trim that you have on on me i don't know what facade that is but it seems like you have a bunch of utilities that are on the way of that they would yeah they some of them are going to be amended and others we would probably just interrupt the trim if they need to remain but you're right and how are we adding in the fenestration uh we think now i can't believe i'm actually saying this because i hate simulated divided light but we would just be applying it to the glass so it's an stl yes you got it yeah and probably do it inside and outside mike why don't we look at maybe just it's there's isn't really a close contextual precedent but there's certainly other brick buildings on the block two down if here on the upper left you see the building and then a wood frame and then the catholic school and beyond that the senior center so then to the right you see the catholic school and a combination of a little more contemporary the rear and more traditional forward but also some precedence of some some brick with a lighter banding and some canopy president you see where their entrance in the right photo i think that's one of their main entrances where they've had that canopy for some some protection and then moving down we have the senior center with some of its its combination of gray and brick as well as what happens across the street with the infill your rec building are you matching the is the intention to match the design of the existing canopy over to the side well it'll be more or less yes and then that it it is is a straight side and then a curve so we will be doing sort of that again but larger you can see i think if you go back to our exhibit our now it doesn't show very large but it it in the upper right you can see the shape of it there that he's circling but when you come up the ramp you'll terminate beneath that canopy and then we'll support it back to the building and up with some brackets or cable probably and then there'll be some steps on off toward the east we'll have a small planter there and somewhat of the intent of that is that that will provide an opportunity for the range that comes off of the canopy to land within that planter and then the side canopies how do they drain side canopies are quite small those i think we probably are just going to drain down and to the site as happens along the full site at this time but it would be be fairly minor so there'll be a leader yeah that may be just a scupper also jay pardon me a scupper yeah well so that it will drain probably to a point a little bit away from the building at a scupper location mm-hmm but probably not a vertical leader i guess right no just an overflow yeah is this a flat roof jay it is basically a flat roof but interior drain yeah and your intention is to keep it as a flat roof yeah yeah it'll be a flat roof interior drain we are adding insulation both probably some inside and out as there isn't much there now it has a partial basement um which is concrete so there's like a fire separation between those levels we'll also be adding fire separation between the first the middle and the rear section but basically keeping the uh the brick we had looked at you know some precedent of buildings of this treatment and more often than not they've been painted or have a treatment upon them which might have been in some ways more interesting but we thought we should retain oh here's some of the things we had looked at but that we should retain the brick and not not change that jay eric yeah going back is this building listed on the national register it's originally when when vermont did its review of historic buildings in montpelier it was identified and considered to be a non-contributing structure in a later round of those uh they did consider it contributing but it's not like individually listed per se no no it's in the district i sort of get up but i didn't uh i guess my comment is this and you can respond to it i think one of the character defining features of that building is its darkness i think it's a it's a brick wall four brick walls with some windows in it and you're proposing to change that quite a bit with the banding and the cornice and adding dividers in the window i haven't come to a conclusion exactly how i feel about that yeah well you're right i mean i guess i'd call it non-character defining in its current uh it's so it's so stark um and and i think you know again in some of those images we looked at we thought about well could we actually code it or treat it and and make it sort of a more of a strong statement or something else but felt we should so i think it's pretty obvious you can see in effect the original building and its brick and its treatment um and respect that but uh i don't know that we sort of damage that integrity it certainly is going to change it you're right uh but i don't know that that what it is or was is not recognizable jay this is steve when was the building originally built it was late let's see the four late 40s i believe mike do you remember that date i believe it was 1947 yeah date and just eric from a procedural standpoint they aren't taking any state or federal monies where 106 comes into play okay well i try not to mix 106 and design review i understand but just as background um any lighting going in uh just at the canopies and we've submitted those and they're all i believe less less than a thousand lumens as per the requirement so there's really none lighting on the building other than light at the canopies for the uh the entrances and signs uh probably will be but not determined at this point i think mike i assume you'll have a sign but hasn't really been conceptually developed the uh i think the changes you're doing in regard to the building's functionality are just fine on the back section by changing doors and windows which makes it a functional building for it's for the new use i think that uh and i understand a bit of the corners is that going to give you a little bit more heights in terms of getting away from the flat road for is that an issue well it will in the because we'll be adding insulation it is going to be taller than what might just simply be a drip edge at the moment uh so yes it does and frankly we thought that added a bit of an opportunity for some banding interest i think i mean that becomes a practical thing so you're not just dumping water and snow sliding down the side of the building i i think i have the most difficulty with the added banding uh i think that takes away significantly from the starkness of the building uh and that was that was the interest and intent from my own owner i know and i uh i'm a little bit conflicted with it i would certainly prefer that the uh banding be uh not installed i just it changes the character the building quite a bit the corners doesn't really change it right do any of the other committee members have any input or opinions about the banding the banding could be removed conceivably right fairly easily yeah if it had to be i would have to be permanent we could do it like on the standoff we've talked about so that there's not a moisture issue also for right i like the banding i think it i think it does give you some character i don't mind it either and the fact that it's removable um um for it i have no objection to it either i think it gives a little more interest to the building it certainly it has been since 47 a non-contributed building in in terms of historical characters so i don't mind the banding at all when i've mentioned that the location of people they say what building it's so plain nobody knows where it is or what it is or what it is yeah what style would you say that is you know certainly if this were something of a strong architectural style and feature we wouldn't you know think of of adding but it's just such a plain palette banding looks like it's at two different levels it is that's intentional and this this would be reversible so it's it's uh what was the material i didn't catch when if you said borel we've often used that where we're concerned about things rotting it's a i've used it for trim and down low on buildings it's a a reconstituted fly ash you can soak a piece of it in water for months and nothing happens it comes nicely primed you can paint it remains dimensionally stable probably sinks too sink if you don't put no water it would it does sink you're right so it doesn't no floodproofing here if it if it is reasonable you're reversible and it's a fastened in the motor choice i wouldn't have a big problem with it okay and we're thinking again sort of a grayish color not probably a little darker than what's showing there responding more to the base of the concrete does anyone else on the committee have any questions comments or suggestions at this point i would be curious as to how the signage interplays with the facade i don't know uh michael curtis do you have any thoughts on what you might be thinking we have a standard sign that we use i was it it looks similar to the logo down there but i was told that um they're going to do something different and the uh i don't think there'll be any signage along the signs all that said um they don't let me make any decision any decision about aesthetics so don't take anything i say with anything other than a big ring assault we know that for that we've got to come back before you i only ask is it may alter the banding if if you know yeah that's possible right whether it would be in between the canopy or off to a side something that wouldn't compete maybe as part of the asymmetry to hold it to a side my drawing shows the back section as sort of a gray or concrete color but no it's it's really more it's more of the yellow yeah and okay and that's the intention is to leave that as it that color okay that was jay that was a preference that was most recently discussed as the uh the feelings we got from the owners that they wouldn't want to stray too far from what's there now except you maybe change the green accents the green and gray to something a little more blue like a dark blue to more closely relate to their logo in the corner here this is very light but instead of a dark green or gray maybe edge towards a blue hue slightly was that blue color mentioned in the application yes i think steve one of the things we tried to do is when we were looking at door cuts um we thermotru makes a factory door and i you've pardoned the screen color i don't know what color you're actually seeing here but um it would be um a very deep color as you saw now in the photos you can see there's a little bit of green hue in the in the doors and the trim on the existing building that we would just um hedge that towards the blue the blue tones a little darker than says sure but again the the color of the building in the back would still be the yellowish golden color correct okay that was my understanding yes and there would also be a deeper cornice there with the insulation that will be added okay i think that air conditioner in the far right comes off because there'll be a system rather than that anyone have any additional questions comments if not based on the responses we have so far i can go down through the criteria for the renovations evaluation criteria number one preservation of reconstruction of the appropriate historic style if the proposed projects in the historic district were involved in historic structure at this location the changes are acceptable harmony of exterior design with other properties in the district acceptable compatibility of proposed exterior materials with other properties in the district acceptable compatibility of proposed landscaping non-proposed prevention of the use of incompatible designs buildings color schemes or exterior materials acceptable location and appearance of all utilities acceptable recognition of and respect for view quarters and significant vistas including gateway views of the city and state house acceptable all in favor of the application speak your names um martha i'm a yes def yes could we also know that um we're recommending standoffs on the portal trim okay i'll put that in the recommendation section eric steve votes yes eric has you have you voiced your vote i had to unmute myself uh yes okay the the science need to be the banding needs to be fastened in the mortar joints okay so we'll just make a recommendation the recommendation is that the banding be a standoff banding attached through the mortar joints that's fine okay then your the application is approved thank you very much thank you and good luck with your project okay thank you very much thank you i think i think usually meredith would go through and say at this point that uh we will get the recommendation forms and i will email them to whoever is the contact person that she's been working with to go and see if you agree to the conditions that eric that's steve just read off and if you agree to it because we'll we'll send you the scan copy if you agree to it you just email back and say yes you agree to them and then um we can process the application at that point as soon as meredith gets back so i think that's how she is working it because usually usually everyone would be around a table and we sign it but in this case we'll just scan it and send it to you okay thank you thank you thank you bye bye okay we can move forward to the next application which is for 20 Baldwin street paul reid and alexandra helis are either of the applicants present we're here both of us are here okay and just as an aside we i personally with my wife on a property that's adjacent to their property but it's not affected by this application as long as you're okay with that i could still vote for the project is that a question to us yes i'm just making sure that you're okay with me participating yeah i mean you've participated in all the other hearings that we've had of this building yes but i just need to ask to make sure that it's it's appropriate in this case and and again i'm fine with it i just wanted to get you approval okay okay go ahead and describe your application for us uh we would like to have a 48 foot box panel wood fence eight feet tall with the top two feet open installed on our side of the lot line between us and the vermont land trust property in order to provide a screen for their parking lot because all the vegetative screens they have put in place so far have failed okay the screening was just by the way historically was recommended i mean it's required i think by the regulations to screen a parking lot and it was approved by this committee five or six years ago and they simply have not been able to fulfill the requirements to date any further documentation you could share yes it should be two images of the current setup submitted with the application they should be on the site we're not set up for share screen you should have it in the documents they were available but they were part of and we can never pay it up like yeah if you need me to share i can just give me a moment to pull yes those photos were part of the application just helpful to see it in real time yeah if you guys you guys can keep talking it'll just take me a minute to track it down here you have any questions about this the uh one question does it need to be eight feet tall well it's tricky because we're way above said parking lot i mean houses um and we did a lot of sort of walking around by ourselves and with the people from middlebury fence and taller than eight feet would be too much there's there's parking lot lights that are considerably taller um eight feet is considerably shorter than the first planting they put in there but enough that if you're standing at the bottom of our lot it does provide a visual screen from every other location on the property it's not so much a full screen as a resting place for the eye so that you don't go immediately to the large expanse of stay mat the uh and it's just going to be natural what yes an example of this fence we pointed out you can if you're familiar with um a project that was across from birch grove on elm street they put in a similar fence i think that's also part of the uh um uh oh we didn't put take photos of it but no you can see it here as an example of what the fence would look like well on elm street is next to meadow martin across from birch grove that's where i found the name of the fencing company so i have the two pictures up if you are interested in seeing them right so one fairly low the first one is from fairly low and then i think the second one is from a little bit higher up yeah yeah but still fairly low both pictures taken from your property correct that's correct that's correct and before the land trust renovated everything to the left of that sort of scrawny maple near the property line was grass so that's all new parking lot i'm going to follow up on eric's question about the height of the fence i know that the rules say that the side or the backyard should be the highest should be 60 and are you asking us for a waiver of that to make it i believe the waiver is allowed in the zoning regulation which allows for some kind of height adjustment given the elevation given the elevation right okay okay that's where you're going with it okay and just for the record um we've been in communication with the land trust about it they have no issues this is what that fence would look like in their application roughly roughly although when i discussed it with the fellow who came out we talked about it's a fairly flat piece of terrain i mean as flat as you get on the site um and rather than stepping it to adjust for the terrain we talked about making it a flat top as it were and picking up the terrain issues in the on the lower part you know in the posts where the panel set in relation to the post because it's only like eight inches over the 48 feet or something you with me yes so your highest point will be eight feet and then it reduces no we're talking a very yeah of four what eight inches i think we measured eight inches over the the run if you will of 48 feet so it'll be eight feet maximum i mean there's some place it might be eight two or seven eight i mean seven ten i mean i don't know exactly how it will work out over that run like you know i can't remember but it will not be noticeable given the elevation difference between the parking lot and your your yard and your house i think that seems pretty reasonable we thought so i mean we looked at six feet and six feet basically doesn't accomplish anything you know once you step back from our property line you know 20 feet you know your your vision is right into the parking lot we also talked about 10 feet but that seemed like too much that's overbuilt so this sounds like a decent compromise given the elevation difference i mean the elevation is pretty major and it seems like the eight feet will help maybe screen the cars that are parked up to it but does it help you that much but as as alex said it's mainly mainly the it will help to screen the cars but we will see probably at least half of the parking lot right it breaks the the eye vision right so so your eye stops there rather than you know going into the parking lot so to speak so i mean that's our best solution there i mean if they come up with some green stuff in front of you know on their side of it that would be terrific but they've not been able to do that have you planned on treating the fence with a stain or you know let it go natural let it go natural with whatever preservative stuff they recommend which is sort of in keeping i mean it's not a very delicate fence and the architecture of the house or the land trust building is not very delicate so just sort of playing straightforward you know it says the material is cedar yes so it's going to let them natural oils in it and again with a little bit of preservative on it a clear preservative it should look pretty nice yeah right but if it's not maintained it'll go ash gray and then black right well the guy from middlebury fence said recoding every three to five years yeah is that your intention i think it would look fine isn't it ash gray and with cedar you don't need to worry about preserving it it's all up off the ground and painting that fence unless you can do a tom Sawyer on it no way we would paint it no way normally put in a vinyl one no but i say somebody's gonna if you're gonna have to record it every three to five years oh you're saying it's not going to turn black once it's gotten silver gray you see they're just turned silver gray it kind of depends on the environment but i don't think i've ever seen a black cedar single wall do you have any concerns with it getting tagged getting what tagged with graffiti no no it's in a pretty secluded spot oh yeah which is all the more reason i guess it could happen it happens all over the city though yeah i mean there's no we can't guarantee it's not going to happen but there haven't been any incidents on the property and actually we have interesting stuff going on in the side yard with gardens and weird wood piles and no one's ever done anything but stop to have a conversation there's um there's a fence over on uh not too far across from steve's property i think on um on bailey that has a fairly large fence and i've never seen that tagged it tends to be in an area that's that's not so exposed and anybody who wants to tag something wants everybody to see it so it's right it's not a prime spot right it's not a bridge maybe we'll do like they do in idly and white you know and put posters up that disappear in two years weed paste yeah weed paste right yes does anybody else on the committee have any additional comments questions or suggestions if not i can run down through the criteria okay the criteria number one preservation reconstruction of the appropriate historic style if the proposed projects in the historic district or involves an historic structure acceptable harmony of exterior design with other properties in the district acceptable compatibility of proposed exterior materials with other properties in the district acceptable compatibility of proposed landscaping we'll call this part of the landscaping because it is a fence we'll call that acceptable as well prevention of the use of incompatible designs buildings color schemes or exterior materials acceptable location and appearance of all utilities no utilities proposed recognition of and respect for view quarters and significant vistas including gateway views of the city and state house acceptable all in favor of the applications speak your names eric says yes martha says yes stuff and steve says yes so it is approved i have a question do we still have to go to drb i'll let mike answer that i don't know unfortunately as mentioned earlier i'm just filling in for marith and she's been tracking all of these applications the only way you'd have to go to drb is if there was another reason um under the new zoning once you get past design review if you agree with the conditions in design review then it becomes an administrative project that's what i thought i'd heard i was just checking yeah but i don't know if there was another reason that that she would have said so but i don't see anything here in the file she gave me um but i will get the recommendation form from steve and i will email that to you and if you're okay with it just email back and say yes we're okay with it and then marith will start to work on processing the application as soon as she gets back which hopefully will be soon okay great thank you thank you very much for coming before the committee and good luck with your project thank you has everyone had a chance to look at the minutes from july the sixth yes any questions comments or revisions necessary not that i saw steve seth any seth or eric uh question to approve i think did someone second i'll second it and every everyone in favor speak your name eric martha steve so the minutes are approved does anyone have any other business to discuss okay out on the floor jerek so so where do we show up for dinner at your house so our next meeting is august the third and unless anybody has anything else do i hear a motion to adjourn i move to adjourn second again everyone speak your name who's in favor martha south steve and we'll take eric's motion as his acceptance so the minutes are approved and an adjournment is approved i'll just mention real quick before you guys go i don't see any applications on the board for august third so keep an eye out you might you might get the night off i thought that we did have the night off i i remember marith was saying there was just going to be one on the 17th in august yeah right so i just took a quick look at the board because i i know there was one meeting she was talking about in america's drb or drc that was not going to have a meeting so you'll get i think you're getting next the next meeting off on the third okay okay thank you mike thanks mike thank you have a great night