 also offer several workshops on site during the year and we also offer a mentoring scheme for museum educators and you can always engage in one of our working groups. If you don't know about those activities please check out our website and today we are super happy to have with us our facilitator Pepin Wilbers from Studio Lauter, the founder of Studio Lauter. Hello Pepin and he has a very huge experience in the museum world and we are happy to hear more about you in a few seconds. Pepin, once we start the session and before I hand over to Pepin I just want to let the audience know that there will be a Q&A session at the end after 45-50 minutes and you can ask your questions through the chat function and Pepin will be there to answer those questions at the end of the session. And now I hand over to you Pepin, the floor is yours and have a good session. Thank you. Well good morning everyone, very nice to be invited here. I'm a partner and founder of Studio Lauter and that's in now we call it content design studio, content design for museum studio here in Amsterdam. I am from origin and historian and since more than 24 years of 25 years I'm working solely for the museum and heritage sector. We started out as a media producer for museums and in the years we more and more evolved to a studio specialized in what we call content design or the design of the narrative, the design of the story. And today I want to talk to you about that, what it means and how we do it. This boy is not happy, he is sitting there and he is having an emotion and maybe we can call this emotion boredom, he's bored. And he has reasons to be, you don't know what he's looking at exactly. The walls are not nicely painted, they are a bit smudgy. There is no means to tell him something, what's happening here. This is a museum and still a lot of people think about museums as a bit boring places where they sometimes have to go with school or with the parents or because it looks good. But of course this doesn't have to be and we are all here trying to make our museums to places where people want to go, where they even want to have an unforgettable experience and a meaningful experience where they can learn something and where they also can feel something and where they can take something home that has value for them. But how do you make such a place? Well, one of the first things to realize and it's a very important thing is that a museum is a designed place. It's not a place that just exists, but every aspect of a museum is made by humans, is thought of and is designed. There are choices made and those choices led to the museum as we know it. For instance, there is thought about the location where to put a museum. A lot of museums are in the middle of town, mostly an important town, the capital of a city or the capital of a province, so the location is important. Architecture is very important. Museums are often places that you can see from far and that have a kind of grandeur. New museums are billions spent on architecture that make almost like palace look like buildings. The way the building is layout, the way you walk through it, the way the objects are spread around the rooms, the techniques that are used to show the objects, to write objects and all the means that are used to tell a story around those objects. It all design things and all things that are carefully thought about, decided about and all those design elements make the museum. We think that also the story is something that you can design. Story does not live in the air and you can pull it out now. Also, a story is something that you came up with and that you design and that is why we say one of the disciplines you need when you are making a museum is what we call content design. That is a design discipline that focuses on the narrative of the museum. What are you going to tell? We think that you can use content design for a museum to tell your story in the most powerful way possible so that you can create a visitor experience that is unforgettable. It sounds very big, but I think that you all have memories when you were a child or when you were on certain museums that you never forget. The first time I went into the Louvre when I was I believe 10 years old and I'm not from France. That is something that I will never forget and there are more moments in museums that were so impactful. Sometimes because of the objects that were shown but also because the building was big or other things that were special about it. There is an open air museum in the Netherlands and I smelled the fires and the old farmhouses there and that was also a memory for me that was very important that formed me. So unforgettable experiences can be made in museums and content design can be part of it. We at Studio Lauve, our content design studio, we purely focus on making stories and help making stories unforgettable and to do that we have a method and we call that emotion design and I want to talk to you about this emotion design and the way we use it and the way it works. It has to do about facts, meaning and emotion but I will be talking about it later. We work for a lot of museums small and big in the Netherlands and abroad. The Big Picture is a project we made this year that won the Museum Heritage Award in London. It is for the film Museum Eye in Amsterdam and it is a digital representation of the collection of their movies and we used AI techniques there to make a new way of browsing this collection. So yeah, it's things we also do. We do projects abroad. We work also on the Middle East in Scandinavia and well sometimes projects can be very big but we do also small things and we work also for places what yeah we call it places with a story so not museums in a strict sense but sometimes heritage locations or sometimes places that are well defined by history of Bible what took place there like the story of the Titanic in Belfast we did a big refurbishment in the beginning of this year. Well that's enough about that. So a museum is a designed place that's one important thing so if you are making a museum you have the power to to form a museum like you want and that is very important. A second thing that is very important to to take into notice is that and it sounds like an open door but it's really important. A museum is part of society so a museum is not a thing that stands on its own it's a kind of tower in which people are just invited to be very quiet and look at the things but the museum is part of society so when we are designing a museum we have to look to connections with this society when we are designed and what we learned that from Virgo in the 80s with his book New Museology. I think you have of course heard from this movement the museum as we knew it the temple-like building where you can in all go in and see the truth and the beauty that is presented there by a group of people who know what's the truth and what's the beauty. Of course it's a bit like a white bit. That museum doesn't hold any longer because people want to get in society wants to get in the meaning of what's happening there is constantly changing and the last year we grow to a new kind of museum and that is much more an open place where people has to feel welcome that is about inclusivity that is about reaching new publics that is about looking critically to your own collection and in short a place that is connected with the world around it and the people who live there and it's important to realize when you are designing a story because if you can say very simple a museum has objects those objects represent stories about the founding of my country about the work my grandfather did about the history of my town and those stories mean something for me they tell me why I'm a Dutchman or they tell me why I'm proud of farmers that worked here in the Netherlands for instance and very easily said if you put those objects with those stories behind them in the in the meanings that we present together you have an exposition and this whole exposition of this whole museum also tells his own story and his own meaning and you put a nice border around this is the museum but the new museology learns instead that that's no longer the way it works because people want to get in and they want to connect with those stories and that are people from all different kind of backgrounds and this this this museum lives in a world that is changing constantly and that is constantly looking for new meanings for new stories so if you are designing a story for a museum you have to take this into account you have to understand that the things you are telling are connected to the people you are telling it to into into the place in the society in which you are telling them and we think there are two things two keys to make those connections between your public and between the society in which you are operating and those two keys are emotion and meaning and that is what emotion design is all about that is to make very explicit in your story that you are telling what is the emotion and what is the meaning of your story so that is what in our opinion content design and emotion design in the heart is what it's all about it's also in the heart of our own philosophy and of our own vision because we think that people need meaningful stories to help them understand the world that surrounds them and we think that museums are places and museums are the keepers of those stories and they have a very important role in society to tell those stories with all the care that needs that needs that those stories needs and the second thing is that if you want to connect to a story emotion helps if you if you feel something you are more open to to the story and to the meaning of the story and you also remember the message better but what what does this mean that the meaningful emotional our museums and meaning what what does it mean well we think that museums are meaningful places sometimes we say it are the churches of the modern age the cathedrals of the modern age and or the new new churches and if you look at the buildings itself it almost looked like this it is almost spiritual architecture in which you can have a kind of yeah almost spiritual experience come to yourself experience things that that you cannot put into words have feelings almost like you have in a big church and sometimes it is really deliberately put to it why why is there a pyramid in front of the of the Louvre it's it's a it's a bold choice to have such a mystic addition to an old building and and right at the bottom it's almost as if all the tourists are worshiping this one piece of art like like it's it's it's a thing in an in a cathedral in the church like the bones of an holy man and you see that in new and emerging countries in the in the Middle East for instance the most money is spent the most care goes to the building we worked for the building at the right bottom in in Qatar the new national museum the collection that is housed in this building could also be in a in a very small building that's just in a provincial museum but the building itself tells a story this is important this is who we are this is this is what we want to tell the world what what we think is important and the building shows it like a big cathedral in in an old middle-aged town but what is this meaning that those museums want to tell or want to show we think and of course this is a bit simplification but it's interesting to go along with this for for for for a little time we think that all the stories that are told in museums can be brought back to three basic questions and it is the big question of identity who am i or who are we or who are you and do you belong here or do you not belong here do i belong here the second very important question is what is what threatens me and what threatens you and what threatens us so that's a story about fear and anger and the third is stories about love the things that make life worth living so three big stories that you can see in in almost every museum for instance identity um i told you already about the museum in Qatar that's all about who are we the Qatar people in a nation that does not uh it's not so old it's a young nation so they need their identity expressed and they say well our identity is in combination of history and nature we are part of the of the big desert and that is why they've come big projections of the nature that is surrounding them really big projections and in this the collection is shown and there is a special place for children to also experience the identity of the country they live in and you can also see it as not as the identity of a nation but maybe the identity of humankind itself so a lot of of of um um folk and kundige museums etnological museums uh are about uh we who are we and how are we connected to our culture um very nice museum in bergen in norway the university museum they uh are an uh natural history museum but the first thing you see when you when you enter the the museum is the showcase right at the bottom and it is a model of a woman holding a baby so the message here is who are we we are animals we are part of the biodiversity of nature part of the animal world and there is also a moving showcase and in the showcase there are all natural uh objects and one of the objects is a sleeping child so this is a very powerful way of storytelling and of telling the story of who we are we are animals um a lot of museums also use art to tell who they are here in the Netherlands Amsterdam the Rijksmuseum is a very good example of it and what is also nice to see left is the um the the museum is built in a Protestant country but the architect was a real catholic man who built over 19 churches in the Netherlands he also built the Rijksmuseum and he built it as a church it's it's uh at the end at the end of this big gallery you see the night watch made by Rembrandt and it is the most beautiful thing we here in Holland made so it's present itself who are we we are this beautiful art that is who we are so this is also a story about identity you could say totally different kind of story is stories about fear and the first thing you think about is of course the the holocaust a lot of museums in places in Europe tell the story of the holocaust and of course the big message the big meaning is never again just by showing what people can do to each other you also say well maybe it's a good idea to never do this again and especially today's society that sent a message that I think is keeps important and is is still very important to keep telling but of course more general war museums tell also stories about what we are afraid for and sometimes that is also a bit interesting and it has two sides some museums take a different angle to make the story interesting it's still a story about what we are afraid for and what's sentences war but this museum is told by children the the war in the Yugoslavian states is told from the perspective of children so you tell the same story but with a very different angle so it comes yeah it really comes to you in a very very hard way but of course you can also make stories about what is what threatens us that doesn't have to do with war but death is something and this is of course a very commercial exhibition about the body but it also shows yeah dead bodies and it's very frightening but also very fascinating like you see the two boys right at the bottom look fascinated to these dead bodies and there are of course new stories that threaten us the climate apocalypse is getting more and more a place in the museums and a lot of art is made about it and it's a story that is of course very urgent at the moment to tell but a big story that that we that we see is our stories about love what makes life worth living um the Valdes museum in Leiden here in the Netherlands is a museum about nature history natural history and they decided to not tell anything about the climate change to not make it complicated but just to show the beauty of life so when you enter the building the first you see is the picture it's left and it's a very big nice almost parade of of animals and all nice animals with fur hair they look nice not bones just animals that you did you almost would touch sometimes people also climb on it and they touch it and it's a very approachable story and a lot of people can relate to it and this museum pulls a lot of visitors that normally are not tended to go to museums so they talk new groups by this love story for the beauty of life and they say well once people love nature they also are willing to protect it um but you can also do it on a more abstract way this is a museum in our own museum island in Japan and this yeah it's almost an installation it is one building with one artwork in it and it's all about experiencing life and nature uh in a in a very uh oh yeah almost uh in a meditation way you see a fairly small drops drops of water emerging from the ground and you have an open contact with outside and the whole story here is experience what life is and what is beautiful about life and there are more museums there that constantly make connections between art nature inside outside and there is not a lot of information given it's an experiential museum that lets you let you feel what life is about um literally museums about love this is a very nice museum in Zagreb made yeah it's a project in which people consent in objects that have to do with a broken relationship and in that sense it's about love and what love means for people so it's a museum about love via broken relationships um yeah and um uh of course I say there are three stories but a lot of museums sometimes tell two stories like here in in Paris in the Musée Nationale d'Histoire naturelle at the one side you there is life and the beauty of life and in the other side you see death you see bones so of course you can combine those stories but it's a nice exercise to look at your own museum to look at museums where you are going to see what what is the what is the big story they are telling you so that is the the the meaning that's behind the story and then the other thing is the emotion and um you can also call it genre and that is a very normal thing that is always used in films and in books in music um and uh especially in in films and books the dominant emotion defines the genre so it's a thriller you will be afraid or you will be in love and it's a romance or you can you can have a love and then it's a comedy or you can get thrilled it's an adventure um museums don't use those kind of genres they mostly are divided by the subject or the or the or the even the kind of objects that says that the shows have got art museums history museums science museum natural history museums um but they don't use a lot of emotional genres um but it is possible and we think it's very interesting because this emotion helps you to connect to the story um the genre that's seen very very often is of course the documentary uh in uh louvre relance is a very good example of it and I think it's a very very nice museum um it shows a very simple but clear way the the development of art throughout time and throughout different cultures um without a lot of storytelling it's very clear uh uh in a documentary style you can also make a drama of the story this is an exhibition we made about matahari that the the woman spy in the first world war or she wasn't actually a spy and she was executed so a very dramatic story and we made a real dramatic story about it in which you uh have a big flashback and you discover why she was executed and what happened and we used very dramatic means uh almost as if you were watching the play uh a lot of light some simple um scenographic means and um what we saw that people were really drawn into this story and in the end were very touched by by her story by her personal drama you can also make a a museum like a big adventure that is what we did in in katar in the children exhibitions we made there and uh for instance in in the section about the sea there were no objects but it was one big adventure how the kataris in early days went to sea to uh to find um uh um how do you call it the pearl pearls pearl diving that it they did it was there one economic thing they did they used special ships for it and aboard of those ships you had to cook for yourself you can make fishes so every element is about this adventure of going on a ship um and together um yeah it tells the story of who kataris are of identity in the form of this pearl diving but the children can really go on an adventure action uh can also be be a genre that you can use to do the museum in danmark the terpitz museum in in which you are really part of the action of uh of of the war uh it's very immersive surrounding and it's as if you are on a big movie set almost you can also use a meson satis there there uh to to try to to to show what the musical of elixatis is about they made all kinds of yeah almost comic installations that uh that that evolve around his ideas in his music so it's a very lighthearted comic experience and one that that is used a lot as uh as a good example is the musée de la chasse uh a museum about hunting in in paris and yeah that's of course a subject that that is a bit out of time and out of date to talk about but they had a big collection of of stuffed animals and what to do with it and they used humor and absurdism to tell a story about well our relation to nature and to uh to to hunting and they asked artists to be uh to do residences there and to make a kind of building in which you fall from one baller into the other why it's important to to to use emotion in in telling your story is that people can connect to your story and they can uh um yeah this is what on chelou says uh people will never forget how you made them feel that that feeling and emotion can make an experience unforgettable the thing i felt when i i went down first the first time in the louvre through the uh and so the big space there that is something i will remember and um the smells i smelled in the open air museum when i was in an old farm with the fire that are things that i will remember because i felt it and it was not told to me on a big text uh label or it was not told by me with in in my ear like i was really part of it but that's why emotion is important but how do you do that how do you get meaning and emotion in your story well what we try to do is to be very very very explicit about it we try not to be shy but we try to really pinpoint what is the meaning of the story and what is the emotion and we do that by dissecting the story into four layers and the thing is that the facts layer is almost never a problem because museums are very good effects i think they are the almost the best in the world effects they know their collection is very good and now all the stories connected to the to the collections so that's not a problem and mostly they come to us and they say well i've got this and this and this i want to tell here is uh are all the papers in the object list goodlap or they come to us and they say we want an VR experience because that that's nice for children so they looked uh at a how so those two extremist effects and how that's what mostly is seen first in the story but we think that the heart of story is in the middle and that is the meaning and the emotion and what does it mean effects you can say that are the things that you will learn when you are in the museum but the important question is why do i have to learn it why do i have to look at those objects why do i have to go into this museum what does this mean for me so it's very important and we try to do it with also the museums we work for to keep pushing this question why do you visit does your visitor have to look at this why do why do you does your visitor have to listen to what you are telling or to look at what you are showing in the second thing we want to ask is what do you want your visitor to feel do you want to to make you visit afraid of things or do you want to uh we once had an uh as a client my museum is about the love that i feel for the for the place that i live so i want to let the visitor fall in love with the after that is the place where she lived so we made an exhibition about falling in love uh on the after and when you can pinpoint the emotion in the meaning uh and you know the effects the step to the how is mostly not so very hard because you know what you want to tell you know why you want to tell it and you know what you want to let you visit a few so the next step is well what means do you need in the museum that we want to let people fall in love we made a big swing you can sit on a swing like and and the youngster feeling in love and uh and in in sin while while swinging you can look at all kinds of movies about surroundings um well of course we work a lot of the time together with museums and then we say well the the the facts that is really the thing that the museum is called that the how is mostly the thing of designers of mostly external specialists who can make movies who can make showcases who can write perfect audio tours and the the middle the meaning and the emotion is something you have to do together because that is in the end the heart of what you are trying to say um well uh we have some time and so I would like to show one example of a project we did and I would like to show the emotion design behind it so that it gets a bit more practical um and to be uh uh to understand what the project project is about I would like to show a little in the summer of 2017 the Mauritshuys decided to no longer be in the faillette zone a few months later this was made for upheav we were talking about a twitter storm the museum would have a national health of its footprint and as a museum we had to do something with it it is the task of the museum to ensure that the facts are correct how the interpretation also moves in the exhibition this popular image is the daring concept with which we go together with the visitors to Joan Mauritsch we have invited a diverse group of people to share their stories at the art work in the exhibition in total it is about 46 different authors who can share from their expertise their background perspective at the art work and all those contributions, texts and opinions are to be read on iPads a visitor who can read, look and think about what he is a lovely girl from the 17th century or a luxury product produced by slaves a proud leather leader or a smudgy slave trader the exhibition is about image formation and image interpretation as designers we wanted to make a visual statement this is the Mauritsch house made of sugar already in the time of Joan Mauritsch the sugar palace is called a reference to the colonial background of the origin of the building capital and with a large amount of storage space 300 pustes we have the twitter storm the exhibition inside we had a difficult question how do you tell as an art museum a story about a national hero with a slave leader who is also the name-giver of the museum and that is why it is undoubtedly connected with the institute you know of the Dutch hero but you often forget the dark side of the hero because it is important that we as Dutch people know this kind of thing I think it is especially beautiful that the museum gives a reaction to what has all happened in the media and also a good reaction a strong reaction the exhibition is a success no new twitter storm but good conversations and for us the starting point of a deep evening research project to give our name this is a project from a few years ago and I believe just before the pandemic but it was an important project for the museum the Mauritsch house because there was a lot of well it was a lot to do about the not the founder of the museum with the founder of the house Joan Mauritsch and he started the slave trade in the Netherlands the trying or trade with Africa Europe and South America so yeah the building was was was founded with money that was earned by the slave trading the long time of history that was a story that was not even really told was not important but of course his kind of stories get very important so the Mauritsch house was was looking for a way to talk about it so we came together and we had a lot of books about it and we used our emotion design method and one of the things that they said that they really didn't know know a lot about him so they missed a little bit on the facts because it was never really explored this subject the research was not done very good so one of the things they did they started a research program it's it's it's now finished but they worked for a few years on it and the second thing that they said well what we find very important is that nowadays a lot of people are shouting everything and that is the twitter storm they were even almost death threats to the director of the museum and they said as a museum we think it's very important that people understand that you are fixing your opinions and that it's important that there are places where you can base your opinion on and where you can have the freedom in the space to to think and to well to understand the perspectives on for instance the past can change so we wanted to make a space in which you could reflect and could think so that they told us a bit about emotion it has to be a reflective thing and that helped us to to make this exhibition so the the emotion design could be the facts were the life of your knowledge and a small selection of paintings from the mountains house that were from this period some paintings were even that young marriage was that were made in South America and Brazil in the time that young marriage with them and the meaning was that our image of history is constantly shifting and you have to realize that but it is also important that you keep basing that on facts and that you respect nuance and that you respect each other in it so like I said emotion contemplation awareness and in the end we made a layered story in which we made space for these different steps to experience so we made very fact-like elements in the in the exhibition an objective timeline in which we only said in this year this happened this year this happened and we tried not to be steering but we tried to what to lay down effects so we didn't use pictures in it we didn't use color in it only black and white and on the walls action in which we show things that happened that we know that happened in the period we are talking about so for instance this is a big war in which young marriage was entangled and where we lost his brother for instance and we showed this with texts on the wall and we showed visuals that that also showed things about that time period and one of the things that this painting of this African woman was a final painting and we also showed two studies that the painter made and in one study that was also in color see her her nice fruit basket was not a nice fruit basket it was just something and her skirt was more a rag that she was was wearing so the final painting is made much more beautiful in the first sketch of this woman we saw an an an mark on her arm with the initials of young marriage so they deliberately did not show that on the on the final painting so they felt that what they were doing maybe was not totally yeah correct so to say they felt that there was some tension in this and by just showing those paintings you could already think for yourself what what's happened um the twitter war we showed just by showing those tweets and and when you just show them you see what yeah what what what heavy and what idiot this is this is shouting at each other without even any uh any knowledge of what actually happened but more important is that we used art collection to show the public that literally uh your your your vision or your perspective or past can change so we asked different scholars and different opinion makers while informed opinion makers uh with mostly scholars in the Netherlands um so three per artwork to to maybe ask them what do you see in this painting and um this is the middle is amazing i don't know who it is but it is an uh an uh important woman and there is a lot to tell about this woman but other scholars said who is this uh black boy who's standing there and they did research and they know in the end who it was and the first art historian historians they told more about the nice elements here and that the color of this uh servant is the same as the color of the drapery here so there is a nice diagonal um so it's even not a person and an other scholar showed that this is a real person that has also history so we showed that uh perspectives can change um and people could read this in those uh iPads and we didn't make a kind of hierarchy in it so you could swipe through all different angles that were given and we saw that people really get into it and really start thinking about what am i seeing and if he or she sees this and he or she sees that what what am i seeing and what do i think of this subject and in the end we made a nice uh more artistic statement and we made a pic that the marriage house of shuker because it was also in the past already told the shuker palace because of those slave history um it was an important exhibition for the marriage house because it was they were a bit traditional before this and uh very um yeah exclusive almost for the elite of the hake uh it was nearby the the place where the prime minister uh is is is working um and this uh by by telling this story and by looking at uh if they're selves like this the the institute reopened up um and they really took this this story very personal uh and um they deliberately searched this position and Emily Gordon who is now director of the van Gogh museum she said well there is a big gray area and we as a museum want to be in that gray area we want to ask questions we want to invite people to to think and to to we we don't own the truth we are part of the searches for meaning and for uh where we are and um well the the institute really changed after this exhibition um and yeah we helped with with making this with helping them with making this story and by uh making the meaning of the story in the emotion explicit so we think that that can help to make stories unforgettable and with that also make experiences unforgettable of course the story is not the only part of a museum experience also the building and also the media and of course the objects that are all parts of of the whole experience but the story is is one of the elements that you as a designer have influence on and that you can stare um so content design is a way to create meaningful stories and unforgettable experiences because museums are meaningful places you must be aware of that so you have to pinpoint what is the meaning of this story that i'm telling because if you're not doing it you are like the boy i showed at the beginning you are in the museum you think why do i have to look at this why am i here i'm going to look on my phone and wait till i can go away um museums can tell very emotional stories and they can have a genre and it's make use of that try to pinpoint what is that what do you want your visitors to feel and when when they are in your museum and when they are leaving because what you feel stays with you and you can use emotion design to divine this meaningful story and emotion and um well of course we can help with that but what's very important is that it helps you to place your institution in the middle of your public and your society and it is that also makes make make it it makes you vulnerable because you are opening up and you are you are saying why you are important so um making a story is a very personal thing and very um you have to be a little bit brave to do it because you have to take a stance you have to say i think it's important that you listen to me because this is what what what uh the story can mean for you and by doing that of course you have to understand your public and you have to understand the society where you are living and you have to be very open and and it's very important that you talk a lot about it and what we see a lot a lot of time in when we are when we are working for for museums and we do a lot of sessions like this and we take the people of the museum all around the table and we talk for half a day and we just ask simple questions for who are you making your exhibition why are you making your exhibition what is it about uh where is your exhibition where is your exhibition by answering those simple questions we get a conversation and we get a kind of atmosphere in which people all of them can say well i really want to feel that people fall in love with with with the art that i'm having or i really want to i really have a message because never again this would and um it is important to talk to each other so what i want to that's the love thing i'm gonna say is just when you are designing an exhibition be clear about what's the meaning of the story you're telling and what's the emotion and talk about it and dare to speak out because the more explicit you are the better your exhibition will be that is our experience um that was it thank you thank you thank you very much for paying so we had more than 160 people from all over europe and beyond listening to your talk about emotion design the emotion design approach thank you very much and we had uh i have a lot of questions and some are quite long and deep i think um uh yeah i can redirect them to you pepe later on maybe through linkedin or via email maybe there is um a place for one question that a lot of people were interested in about this again big topic of um ai gen i i know but maybe you can just give us a small insight of about if um if you're using it in your work to create storytelling in the museums um and um how to connect this technology with with the visitors this was something um people were interested in yeah i know we don't have a lot of time but maybe yeah um yeah we actually did a project uh in which we uh it was the project i showed the beginning of the film museum i and there we used ai in a very uh early stage we started the project three years ago um and during the project we used more and more ai um what we used it therefore is to um uh to get a new angle on a collection so what we did we analyzed uh all the move the moving material all the films all the digitized films um the museum choose chose a thousand films we all uh let the computer analyze them and um we let the computer make um kind of comparisons so the the ai said well in these shots there are all circles for instance or indeed these are all shots in movies that are red or these are in these scenes are all cars or here are all close-ups and we make a kind of new uh collections so to say of of short scenes and short short shots that um that were made by the computer not not by people so not by a curator who said well this is an important movie because it's about whatever uh but the computer made the the the the collections of the shots and of the of the presentation um and um the we projected them around you and you could use you could choose as a visitor the different collections and you get totally new um yeah a new perspective on the collection because you you were shown movie fragments from movies from all over the world all over the time but they all were red does that mean something maybe maybe it are all movies of love or maybe it does mean something else but it was a very good starting point of exploring the exhibition and we see that people really dive into and use it as a starting point so that was a very early early use of of AI we are now exploring it to to use it on yeah more smaller tasks in which we can can use it for instance by making mood images we made an installation in which we want to add we had a certain image in mind and we used AI to to come up with this image and we modeled it after AI so that's there's also very little or a way of using AI but of course we can also use it to make texts shorter or to to help we do a lot in English as you hear my English is not perfect so when we are making English text and communicate with the clients over the world we can use AI to make our texts better you'd say check check the English so you can also use AI for very small tasks not for the big idea but for the small things so that your work is more efficient so we are trying on a broad way trying to to see where we can use it thank you maybe one last question remaining minutes so we've heard a lot about the museums how they should tell the story and about the design what about the visitors the personal visitor stories what is a good way to to listen to them and to implement those personal stories in this whole design yeah it's a very big question three minutes I think the museums are still there can be you can make a lot of profit there is a lot of space to explore in one of the first things is a lot of the time museums don't are afraid of choosing an public so each commercial company can tell you that they choose their public even the biggest the IKEA chooses for young people who are going to furnish the first home and you think that is a very small target group yeah it is but they are the biggest company for for furnishment so it it it helps if you choose very deliberately a target group the Naturalist Museum and Nature Museum in the Netherlands chooses for a target group that doesn't know a lot about nature that chooses between the museum or amusement park so all the experts were angry on the museum because they missed the collection of little insects but they say what insects are not nice we only want big fluffy nice animals and of course that's that's almost like cursing in the church so to say but there are now half a million visitors per year and they are really loving the museum that are not our colleagues so to say but there are people who otherwise never go to a museum so it's very valuable so I think the first thing you have to do is try to really understand what your public is and what your public wants by simply asking them observing them choosing for a target group seeing what they really like and not thinking of yourself a lot of the time we heard also museums say yeah I like this but it's not interesting you are not making it for yourself you're making it for your target group so that is the first thing of getting your visitors in and of course the museum of the broken relationships in Sakep that is a very nice example of crowds crowds yeah almost sourcing stories and of material and they have a very specific question sent in an object that has to do with the broken relation and they well the whole the whole concept is built on this so that is very important that you that you make it if you want to make a place for stories of your visitors really do it don't do it just decide with a sticky note but really make it part of your experience and that is also if you are going for instance incorporate certain groups or minorities in your city where you're making a museum just don't ask them to to just make a little thing but then give them the podium and give them the room to make make such a thing so also that yeah choose choose choose choose that is a very important thing and speak out and if you say I want my visitor to be part of it let it be at the other hand I believe Fort said it that if he would ask people they still drive horses and you are also as a designer you are and I think museums are also designers because you make stories and exhibitions you are also kind of front-runner and you are making something that people cannot make themselves I'm also going to a restaurant to eat but the chef made not what I make myself because I know what I can make for myself if I really want to eat go to a restaurant and I ask the chef please give me the best you have and so yeah sometimes it's not always the way to go to to incorporate the visitor but if you think it's it's a part then just do it for 100% it's your work thank you very much thank you Pippin for this hour it's always too short I just hope for every one of us that we that our next museum visit will be very emotional and yeah all of you here you see a lot of thank you from all those people please get in touch with Pippin if you have further questions or with us and thank you very much all the best thank you too thank you bye bye