 Good afternoon committee. State employees and teachers and Vermonters who are watching on YouTube. Before we start to take testimony today, I thought it would be good to review a little bit of the work ahead of us and why we're undertaking the difficult task of stabilizing our public pension system. All of us in the committee and throughout the legislature have been receiving emails from teachers and state employees concerned about this discussion and, and, you know, asking questions about some of the ideas that have been presented so far. I want to emphasize that this is the starting point of our conversation about how to stabilize the pension system and we are eagerly awaiting your input in this process. A few things first that I think we can agree upon our public pension systems are not in a good financial position right now. The reason we're here is because we continue to see a decline in the funding level and rise in the unfunded liabilities and the ADEC or essentially the mortgage payment that we need to pay each year has grown by $96 million just since last year. Historical actions, some of which occurred before any of us were elected have greatly contributed to the situation that we're in. And like a majority of state municipal pension systems, the Great Recession of 2008 really had a major impact. Realizing the public pension system is a is a very challenging conversation, but without action, I worry that we're jeopardizing the security for current retirees, as well as the promise of a retirement system for folks who are in our workforce right now. The opportunity that we have right now is that we were able to identify $150 million in one time money to put towards the different pension buckets. We're going to do the analysis, do the hard work, talk with your union representatives and other folks who are coming before the GOVOX committee to see where investing this money will give us our greatest return. This is a tremendous opportunity and we certainly don't want to squander that on behalf of our public employees and your pension system. There's a lot more that I could say here but we will be deliberating on this in in committee testimony over the coming weeks. We have added a second public hearing next week, I understand that it is already at capacity and so I would welcome folks to to write to us email the committee. If you want to share your remarks from tonight. I'll ask somebody on staff to put that in the chat so that you can get refreshed on the email address to send your remarks to. But we want to engage with you and and hear your thoughts as we look at how to solidify the future of our retirement system. Everyone has had a really difficult year and our teachers and our public employees are among the most critical people who've helped us get through this pandemic so far and I don't take lightly that this is a very difficult time to be entering into this conversation with you. It is challenging for me personally as well. But I believe we have an important moment ahead of us we have an opportunity, and I'm just inviting folks to make a good faith effort to join into this conversation with us. A few logistics. This is a webinar format on zoom. So right now the committee and a handful of staff members are panelists and you are all attendees. I will call up the next speaker and name the person who is on deck. Pardon the baseball softball reference but just seems easy that way. When it's your turn you'll be brought into the panelists room and when you're brought in you will be muted so please just keep an eye on where your unmute button is it's different depending on what device you're in. And we will start the timer once you are in and have unmuted and started your remarks. If you aren't able to get through all your thoughts, like I said before please send them to the email address where we're collecting written testimony. The countdown clock in one of the zoom squares and representative Dan and has another signal that he's going to show when when someone's time is up because I know that I know that sometimes it's hard to watch the countdown clock as you as you're reading from your prepared remarks. If you've reached that two minute mark will ask you to sum up your thoughts and you'll be moved back into the attendees list and you're welcome to either listen from there, or to jump over to the YouTube stream if you want to watch the remainder of the hearing from YouTube. And without any more introductory remarks, I'm going to say, I'll call up the first two folks we've got Karen Shay Deniston up first and then Peter Booth is on deck. Welcome Karen. Thank you for the opportunity. I'll speak in bullets to be concise. One, you reduce time for comments from three minutes to two minutes claiming to want to hear from more people. And that's suspect. If the speaker wanted to hear from more people more time would be added. It has happened before one example, the 2014 joint legislative committee on child protection. They traveled the state and listened to people all summer and fall to create a plan. If it matters you make it happen. The government structure proposal does nothing to address the primary root cause of underfunding for years by the prior legislators and administrations. There's nothing compelling proper funding levels in the future. Three, the plan design places the entire burden of the underfunding on the shoulders of employees. You are misleading for monitors to suggest that using $150 million and one time funding is generous. Given the amount of federal funding that is coming to our state and the price of new programs you're currently creating. Four, I have no time to detail the impacts of the individual parts of this disastrous plan. However, I will share that I am one employee who started working at the age of 25. Your plan would have me work in additional 11 years and cost me over $600,000 and lost benefits and continued contributions. One employee over half a million dollars. Would you recover from that. My husband is also a state employee. Imagine the combined impact and this isn't even factoring in the reduction we would experience from the reduced COLA extended AFC risk sharing. Would you want that for yourself for your children. Six, this proposal is already precipitated an unnecessary crisis for our workforce. The governor's proposed budget funded the ADEC to give time to create a plan. Instead you are doing this during your pandemic when you know state employees are all working more and working remotely and the state house isn't even open to us to show up to share our strong feelings. You are doing this from the comfort and safety of your homes under the veil of secrecy and darkness while we serve for monitors. Seven, you are misleading for monitors when you suggest that the ADEC is not a worthy investment of general fund dollars. The ADEC is the best investment you could make with my tax dollars because every dollar spent investment returns come back to Vermont that are spent in Vermont by Vermonters. Finally, eight, I have to believe that all of this means you really don't understand or appreciate the magnitude of the impact this will have on the workforce service quality quality of life for Vermonters on going and about to our state. So slow down and first seat to truly understand and give this process the due process it deserves. Thank you. Next up we have Peter Booth and on deck is Christina Sweet. Welcome Peter. Hi there thank you. So I wanted to, I'm a math teacher I've taught at the Woodside Juvenile Rehabilitation Center. I'm a professor I've taught at People's Academy at Morrisville and I currently teach at Champaign Valley Union High School here in Heinsberg and I'm a math teacher and an English teacher and I did some math and I calculated the amount of money, not contributed that was recommended recommended ADEC from 1979 to 2006 and that money totals $172 million that was not put in by the state. With each quantity being individually compounded through to 2021 that adds up to $923 million. So of the unfunded liability, which I believe is 1.9 billion, nearly half of that is directly attributable back to that underfunding I understand none of you were involved in that. But I think it's sort of been mentioned in passing that there was some unfunding in the past. The unfunding for the past is a massive piece of this deficit that we're in this unfunded liability. My other point was that to to this is not a teacher didn't make this happen I didn't make this happen. This is a problem that the whole state has and to put all of this financial responsibility on a handful of people and say you guys are going to have to deal with all this is just not attributable. The hit needs to be at a minimum spread across all Vermonters. This teacher didn't create this problem, and teachers shouldn't be asked to solve this problem. My last comment. I apologize for rushing is that I find this whole thing this proposal disingenuous. Beth Pierce put together a proposal, which people said don't worry that's just a initial bargaining moment. And you added the rule of 90 switch to age 67 retirement which I believe, which makes it catastrophically worse, and then allows you to then be reasonable and back off on that and tell teachers. You've gotten what you asked for you didn't want to work to your 67 we back off on that and then everything else that treasure Pierce put in position sales through so I really I feel the whole thing is disingenuous around we're trying to work with you. You've got to correct your your hard work. Thank you. I apologize for going a bit long. Thank you, Peter. Next up we have Eric Davis, and then on deck we have Eric Hutchins, I guess Christina sweet is not with us. So welcome Eric. Thank you for being with us. Good afternoon. I'm sorry, my video. There we go. Good afternoon. I'm also with the state of Vermont. I'm also a fiduciary the retirement system. I thank the legislature for your attention to this important issue. I have no doubt it's being approached with the best intentions. But the House proposal leaves me gravely concerned that we're headed down the wrong path. We must work together to strengthen the pension system, but the idea that it needs to be saved from the break of collapse is hyperbole. If we are to solve these issues, we must be forthright in their characterization. The pension system has only been discussed in terms of its challenges. We also need to acknowledge that we're at a point where a deck payments begin to make significant progress in paying down the unfunded liability that assumption changes have absorbed existing cost pressures, and that we sit on hundreds of millions of unrealized investment gains. The sky is not falling, but prudent action is appropriate. However, these actions must recognize a shared responsibility and be fair and equitable. Those are the principles that must guide us, not dollar figures. The House proposal fails to meet this test. Employees have an obligation towards the normal cost. Recalibration there is fair and equitable. The employer has an obligation to make payments towards the unfunded liability. Yes, costs have increased, but taking away earned and deferred compensation compensation because a lower a deck is preferred is a broken promise. A true compromise is one where all stakeholders, including the legislature and the governor have that shared sacrifice and are a little uncomfortable with the solution. The House proposal puts the burden only on the backs of public servants. We must do better. A personal note, I chose the state of Vermont to spend my career working in the public interest. I value my work more than the salary or benefits, but this was the first week I question the value that my employer put on that work and question whether it was the right place. Again, we must do better. Thank you, Eric. I have Eric Hutchins now and then on deck is Anne O'Hearn. Welcome Eric Hutchins. Hi, my name is Eric Hutchins. I'm a teacher at Lemolian High School in High Park, Vermont. I live in Johnson. I'm a graduate of University of Vermont class of 92 I believe the same year as the chair. So I want to thank you for taking the time to see us but and I'm going to throw out my notes here because it just two minutes is not enough time I just need to express to you how I feel. I find it unfathomable that this group of people would consider what they call stabilizing the pension fund, not by actually stabilizing it, but by cutting the promise pensions that you made to teachers and state employees, that additional revenue sources were not even considered in the initial proposal is an affront to all working class from honors. Many of you in this zoom campaign or run for parties that have platforms or issue stances that pretend to be for progressive tax structures, or supporting working class for monitors or being champions of the middle class. This plan is regressive. It takes a financial problem that the state has, and it puts that burden on a regressive tax on all educators and state employees who will have to pay more out of their pockets and future elderly retired employees who will get less and have to work longer. It is an affront to the sensibilities of what our state is supposed to stand for of what progressive shared burden politics has to stand for. I urge you to scrap this entire policy, go back to the drawing board and pick a plan that shares the responsibility and come up with something akin to Senator hookers as 59, which proposes a 3% tax on all the monitors that made over $500,000. The tax cuts provided the 5% of wealthiest for monitors with over $200 million in tax breaks in just the year 2018. The share responsibility belongs in those places and I urge you to scrap this entire plan. Go back to the drawing board and share this burden among all Vermonters, especially those most able to pay. Thank you for your time. Thank you, Eric. Next we have and Oh, and then after that, Joseph Sabataso. Welcome in. And if you can unmute yourself. Super. Hi, my name is and Oh, this is about. My pension. And I've been planning for my my career. And I've been putting aside my I've been talking to people. The Vermont State teachers retirement pension is one third I think of the stool that I plan to sit on when I retired. I expected it would be there when I started teaching, I knew, because my parents were teachers husbands parents were teachers. I knew that that was part of the deal, and that that was going to be there and that is part of what attracted me to working in the school. So I think for a proposal, it's really looking like less money for me and working longer. And I'm not for it. I think is I think a pension is an agreement that you pay because I paid and we entered an agreement about it. It is a promise and to make changes right now feels like the rug is being pulled out from underneath me. It feels dishonest and unfair. And pretty terrible. And even the average retirement amount, a teacher gets is around 21,000 at this point, and that's no pot of gold. I urge you to take longer like other people have said, and find the money from some other area. 15 seconds. Am I done. And I just want you to know, the teachers aren't a menace, you know, we're just people. And I want to know that you get that. Thanks. And Joseph Sabataso and on deck is Tom blog. Hello, good evening. Video. Good evening. I'm Jody Sabataso I teach at Rotten High School. I've been teaching for 22 years. And I've been looking forward to the pension in a time rule of 90. That puts me retiring at the age of 60. That puts me in a classroom for another seven years, if we're just talking about the age base. All these are a problem for teachers. We're in your community, we're people of your community, when we retire, we volunteer in the community on all kinds of sort of sort of levels. We're in your community all the time, and you're, you're taking away what we can give back. So, I put together a quick little scenario. And I just, since it's only two minutes I just based it on the age base retirement and changing to 67, even though there's an issue with all your proposals. It's not right now as 40,000 full time employees. If 5000 employees retire at the age of 60 versus the age of 67, it will cost the state in taxes $2.1 billion by asking those employees to work an extra seven years over that seven year time. That's $300 million a year. Keep the rule of 90 and let us retire at the rule of 90, which would be made the age of 60. And you hired new teachers, younger employees and put the starting way in the starting wage average for the same place $28,000. That means over the next seven years, that's about $1 billion. You saved the state a billion dollars in time. So if you put $400 million towards the problem of the state, you saved the taxpayer $600 million. And so, I'd like to say that you can't make these changes, you can't do this to us. And nowhere can you break our promise to us that when I started teaching at the age of 26 and making $23,000 a year and negotiating contracts, taking less money over all these years and I've negotiated five contracts now. And every year we take less money because we know we need to put more money into our state pension or school boards have to put more money to state pension. And so we take less money because our health insurance costs more and it causes school district more money so we take less money over and over. And now you're ripping a rug from underneath us. Thank you very much. Thank you, Joseph. Tom blog and then on deck is Laura Brown. Hi, good afternoon. I want to say first of all, I'm a teacher, and I am proud to be a teacher. I love teaching. I was formerly an attorney for 20 years in practice and I'm choosing to do this. The panel needs to understand that this feels like a gut punch, a sucker punch to the goodwill of the teachers who raise young Vermonters who educate young Vermonters and who make our society better. We work for you, but we are not beholden to the government. We are not beholden to the legislature and we demand as a group to be treated fairly. We are going to ask this committee to think about where this leaves teachers and SUs as they negotiate new contracts because if the supposition is that we're just going to sit there as a group and say, oh, okay, we're just going to take this. That is a very not not a great way to look at this because you can bet that when we sit at the negotiating table, we're going to be asking the other people who should be sharing in this burden to share in it by increasing our salaries each and every time to help make up some of this. I've heard some sound financial reasons from people and I have to agree. The world's not on fire here. You're choosing at the worst possible time when teachers have done so much to prop this state up and get people back to work at our own risk to our health, our own potential peril, and you're doing this to us or proposing to do this to us. It's not fair. It's grossly inequitable. Imagine working nine years, nine years into this and you suddenly become disabled. Well, there goes the roughly $30,000 to $50,000 you put into this pension system inequitable. If someone asked me three months ago, should I become a teacher? I would have said yes. If somebody asked me now, I would say, I don't know. Can you afford to? Thank you. Thank you, Tom. Laura Brown and then Nora Skolnick. Welcome, Laura. Thank you. Thank you for being here and my name is Laura Brown. I teach first grade at floodbrook school. And I've been teaching for 16 years starting in Brooklyn after 911 and I was a member of the AFT. I was also a local one member of IA. I am a former stagehand and I made a lot of money. And I chose this career and I came through in the teaching fellows program in New York City, which was an amazing program. And that program was created because they found that they could not staff high needs schools. And they weren't paying teachers enough money and they weren't giving teachers enough benefits and they changed all of that in New York City to make things better for teachers. And it worked. And they got, they got second career teachers who were knowledgeable and trained and did a wonderful job. And I include myself as one of those people. The teachers did not create this problem with the pension. It was created by legislators in the 90s who refused to listen to the expert actuaries working for them and decided to underfund our pensions. This was not a choice that I made nor is it a choice of any of my colleagues who are planning to retire based on the guidelines they were giving upon being hired. The cost of this pension plan was seen in the 90s and our state legislators refused to do the right thing for whatever reasons. Now teachers are being presented with a cruel plan not an unfair plan. We are the teachers who face the challenges of teaching in a pandemic schools closed and it was not principles who made the teaching happen it was not superintendents. It was not Dan French who made the teaching happen. We it was teachers and support staff who directly served our students we learned Google classrooms seesaw new approaches we gathered as educators on zoom and helped each other find the most effective ways to reach our children in Vermont. Some of whom lacked a lot of basics necessary to thrive in the middle of a pandemic. I asked you we did it and now you're presenting us with this. I'd like to say it's an option but we were not given a choice back in the 90s and we're not given a choice now. You were or your colleagues were and now you need to do the right thing and find a better way a new approach a new way of thinking outside the box just like we did last spring I have faith in your abilities to turn this around. My greatest hope is that you will care as much about our Vermont teachers as we care about our Vermont children. Thank you. Thank you Laura. Now we have Nora Skolnick and after that is Dave Bellini. Welcome Nora. Hi, thank you. My name is Nora Skolnick and I am a teacher at Randolph elementary school. Thank you for allowing me to speak today to say that the proposal put out by the house is unfair and immoral is an understatement. Teachers have been putting their lives on the line, and they, along with state employees are working harder than ever to help hold their communities together this past year. Students of gratitude for all that we do holds no value. They are made and then in the next breath we are asked to pay more and lose benefits in a pension system that is already rated one of the worst in the nation. Our thanks is being told to work longer and harder for less money. The legislature has ignored the financial problems and mismanaged our money for nearly 20 years. There are solutions to this that will not penalize those who kept their side of the agreement. Indeed, there are billions of dollars in federal money that can be put into the system and an expected increase in revenues from taxes, all of which can solve the problem without hurting a single teacher's benefit. Instead, it appears as if the legislature is looking for a quick fix on the backs of those who can't afford it. I don't know a single teacher who went into this profession looking to get rich. We know from the beginning that there will be long hours, sleepless nights, and that the rewards are mostly intangible. A grateful smile from a student, the excitement in class during a light bulb moment. The thing we thought we could expect was not having to worry about finances once we retired. This proposal is pulling the rug out from under us and doing it during the most difficult time in our professional careers. I have taught in Vermont for over 25 years. During that time, I have seen my benefits being constantly chipped away. I remember the last time a quote deal was made financial problems with the pension system on the backs of teachers. The legislature made a commitment to us then and is breaking that commitment now it is wrong. I implore you to do the right thing and reject this for any other proposal that cuts pension benefits. Thank you very much. Next, we have Dave Bellini and on deck is Molly Stoner. Hello. Hi, welcome Dave. Hi. Well, I've only seen the proposal for a day and a half. And I've got two minutes to analyze it. I will leave out the part about how I feel about it. You, because I think you know, I've been a state employee for 42 years. First, let me thank the committee members that have spoken in support of state employees and teachers. I think you let us all get right to it. I think you left out of your proposal, Madam Chair, what's the dedicated revenue source that you really need if you're serious about solving the pension issue. Everyone wants to know when the effective date is. I mean, why would you not tell us people have already retired based on what the treasurer said, and what we've heard you're going to do. So, we need to know that because I speak to a lot of state employees and some people, if, if your proposal goes through and I know you're serious about it or you wouldn't have written it. Some people would be better off resigning before the implementation date, which you won't say what it is, because you've said, if, if you really mean it, that vested terminations will be held harmless. Well, we need to know because some people are more advantaged by resigning now, if the effective dates July 1. It's based on their age, and based on their life circumstances. Do you think this through. So, they need an answer now, because they need to quit I will advise them to quit, because it's in their best financial and give them time to see a financial plan. And I hope one of the Republicans will call me at home just talk to me I need to talk to somebody that's saying. Thank you. Okay, I have Molly Stoner and on deck is Vicki Brown. Oh, Molly. Thank you. My name is Molly Stoner. I'm a fourth grade teacher in Dumberston and vice president of my local union I've been an educator in the state since the 1980s. Until Wednesday afternoon I had planned to retire in six years when my younger son is projected to graduate college. And that felt almost doable. Your proposal dramatically affects that for me personally. You see I'll be fully vested in five years and two months. That and those last there's no graduated release in your plan those last two months that I need will require I teach five years longer to the age of 67. I can't fathom that and this concern has been voiced by so many in my district. This year of constant change problem solving incredibly long hours has left me feeling akin to how I felt after seven weeks of radiation treatment. My commitment over and over again as a public servant in a pandemic. And while not every year is this hard. It is not a desk job teaching 67 other voices from my district. Allison is a young teacher who's followed in family footsteps. Recreate requiring us to teach until 67 is in humane this proposal makes me consider looking elsewhere for a job certainly not remit recommending working as a teacher in Vermont. May another young teacher is hoping to make a life here in Vermont but now says quote this will be on my mind as I look to purchase property and I know other young teachers also leaving the state. Tom a mid year teacher who lives in Massachusetts says he is starting to look at jobs there he calculates that starting over again in mass right now he would still work fewer years and have a better retirement package than staying in Vermont. He says I'm left so concerned for my family sure but more importantly for our state our schools our children how will we draw young people into this profession. How will towns afford the teachers so high on the pay scale and who will want to teach in Vermont. I know your job is robust and challenging and I feel such gratitude you're willing to do it much like I feel the gratitude for every single teacher out there. We've moved our entire industry to a new platform in two days call us to the table. We know how to be creative. Thank you. Thank you Molly. Next up is Vicki Brown after that is Marie Debendetto. Welcome Vicki. Thank you for giving me the opportunity to speak to you tonight. So I'm Vicki and I currently teach in Colchester school district as a special educator, and I live in the town of Milton. And I'm not going to talk to you about facts and figures tonight I think we can all agree that the reason why we're here tonight is that the pension has been significantly underfunded, and it's not educators that haven't contributed their fair share. So I spent the first 13 years of my teaching career working in alternative programs associated with mental health agencies. I recognize after those 13 years that I really needed to start thinking and planning for my retirement. So as much as I love those students, I did make the switch to public education. I joined Colchester nine years ago, and I am 19 years away from retirement under the current plan at age six, and I would be 65 years old. That's an important number 19, because while it seems like a long time, 19 years is not enough for me to come up with a plan to recoup the losses of the proposed changes that you make. I have made decisions for myself and my family based on the pension that was promised. Some of these decisions include how much mortgage I could afford, how much I could contribute to my children's college education. The decisions with the knowledge that I had a pension that was guaranteed have put me in a position that now that I don't have the flexibility to contribute to a 401k and try to recoup some of these losses. I am a lifelong Vermonter, I was born and raised here, I chose to raise my family here, and I'm very concerned that these proposed changes will make my plan of retiring in Vermont unobtainable. I'm fearful that I'm not going to be able to retire in the state that I work in love. In Vermont a place where teachers cannot afford to retire, not only impacts the state financially, as we would spend our retirement income here, but impacts the communities as well. Educators are community members, we have decades if not lifetimes ties to our communities. We're literally coaches, Girl Scout leaders, we contribute in so many ways. Changing the pensions that were promised to us partway to our retirement is incredibly unfair. We've done our part. I'm going to ask that you do your part to figure out how to fund and guarantee the pensions that were promised to us. Thank you. Thank you Vicki. Next up is Marie Divana Ditto and then Tev Kalman is on deck. Welcome Marie. Hi, my name is Marie thank you for listening. I am a first year special educator at CVU. And like Vicki, who just spoke, I also spent the last five years on working at an alternative school with students with severe emotional and behavioral needs and so I didn't have a pension plan there and part of my public school was to really feel like I had more security. I was told at this point being 35 that I should be close to having double my income in retirement savings. Because I've chosen to work with some of the most marginalized students that need mental health support. I wasn't able to get that head start so especially a year where my skills to support those students with severe or to bring my expertise to support students with social emotional needs to just pull our pension security that I thought we had just feels it's hard for me to speak right now because I just feel so so mad. And many, many other teachers my age still have student loans they're paying off. Many of my friends who are teachers aren't even close to being able to buy a home so I just want to highlight that that those, you know, increasing the percentage that we have to pay in and putting it on our backs is completely unacceptable. I also want to highlight that it also really deters highly qualified teachers from getting into the profession and it's also discriminatory towards single mothers who are teachers it's discriminatory towards people of color who might want to get into teaching and don't have the generational wealth that white Vermont people have so this isn't it's not just about teachers now it's also about it's also about retaining good teachers and diversifying what our teachers look like in Vermont to support students. Next up is Tev Kalman and after that Ray Werner. Welcome to. Thank you. Yes, my name is Tev Kalman I am a high school English and social studies teacher Randolph, where I was born. I'm a graduated Vermont public schools and after attending college out of state. I chose to come back here to teach because I wanted to invest my life in serving the school system the communities that had educated me. This proposal and the fact that I have to be here on the eve of Passover to beg for the right to be able to afford to retire makes me wonder whether I made the wrong decision. I really love what I do. I love my students I love teaching them American history I love teaching them to write. But this past year and especially the past 48 hours have made me feel so disrespected so dejected so pessimistic about my chosen career. My colleagues and I have put our bodies on the line to keep the public schools open and running during a global pandemic and a pandemic that has exposed the weaknesses of our public sector, and how financially precarious so many of our working families are. We know that there are hundreds of millions of dollars and on tax wealth accumulating at the top of the income period pyramid. We know there are hundreds of millions more pouring into the state and federal dollars. You would think this was a moment to invest in our public sector in our public schools but this proposal is asking us to work longer, pay more and live on less in retirement. I have too many colleagues in the first couple years after they retired, not to recognize that you are asking people literally to work to death. I reject the premise of this proposal this is not on us as you as you've heard we paid our fair share. Why the state didn't address these discrepancies earlier in the wake of the federal tax cuts in 2017, or really during the entire recovery since the 2008 crash that the chair mentioned. There's a plan that's a slap in the face of 20,000 essential workers, and it will drive experienced professionals away from our schools and state agencies when we need the most. And those most hurt by the proposal are our youngest employees already crushed by historical levels of college debt, any sensible college graduate will think twice before pursuing a profession with such low pay, such increasingly questionable safety, uncertain retirement and such low levels of respect. I know I'm over time but you can give me five more seconds if you're asking me to work 10 more years. Please seek this quote seek to close this funding gap through raising revenue from those who can afford to pay more in taxes, not on our backs. Thank you. Next up. Next we have Ray Werner and on deck is Charlie Dickerson. Welcome Ray. Hello. Yeah, my name is Ray Werner I'm 42 I worked for a OT agency a transportation out of district for. I'm pretty new to all this and I'm not blaming you guys I know a lot of this happened long before you guys showed up but I really feel that, you know, what in my department where I work and stuff it's feast or famine. We don't make a lot of money when I accepted this job a few years ago we counted on the pension. I don't feel it's right to change the rules in the middle of the game. We agreed to something and I feel it's your guys's responsibility. I think we've collected for these challenges to find out how we can fund this. We don't want to pay a dime more. We don't want to see our benefits change. So if we could just figure that out I have faith that you guys can do that and get that accomplished I do not support taxing the rich 3% that's something that you know why should they pay more either. I think that we need to find the fact when you guys need to do some trimming. I know the state waste a lot of money in areas that that could probably make up a good portion of this but I mean you guys are the professionals in your area and I'm sure you can figure it out and that's really all I have to say I mean, please don't do that let's we can't afford to pay more and we shouldn't have to pay more I mean you dance with the person you brought to the dance. And again, like I said, you know, we're in the middle of the game now, and we can't change it and I don't have the amount of time invested that a lot of these my co workers doing, and they're upset, and we're going to score you on this and I believe many Vermonters are going to are going to score you on this single issue alone and and that's all and thank you and I'm sure you guys will come up with an alternative. Thank you Ray. Next up is Charlie Dickerson and Noah death sir is on deck. Thank you. Well technical glitch there are five seconds for 10 more years that's pretty good trade. Two minutes for a Friday night public hearing with one day's notice is extremely disrespectful. This is the first time in my life. I'm going to agree with Bob Hooper. Take OPEB and throw it in the trash for now. It's noise. It gets in your way. It should not be conflated. The OPEB on the state plan was 1.1 billion that's with a B in 2004 this year it's 1.2 billion with a B. That's going to end right away. That should be handled separately and can be requires creativity some flexibility with regards to some ethics and Peter Anthony I agree with them that you do not have to do everything all at once. You can take the various principles parse them out. Deal with them separately deal with them with deliberation. The world isn't going to end unfunded liabilities been around for 40 years that I know of. The teachers plan has been between 40 and 60% unfunded for at least 40 years that I know of the world is not going to end tomorrow. Please, please, please take your time. Think back 12 years ago, when the Treasurer's Office came in and discovered that there was an unfunded liability of $81 million. My God, we have to cut benefits increase contributions and tag the legislature with extra appropriations. What happened 12 years later the unfunded liabilities gone from 81 million to 1.1 billion with a B. And so what makes us think today's fix is going to work. I suspect it will not. My time is up. Take your time do it right and quit disrespecting the workforce. Next up we have Noah Dexter and on deck is David Oliphson. Thank you Madam Speaker. I'm a teacher Milton high school and I want to speak about two things the pension plan and the artificially rushed timeline on this process teachers state workers and some members of this committee didn't get the specific changes to the pension plans until Wednesday at 1030. I want to talk about a gut punch pension overhaul in the middle of the work week while we were teaching your children with two days for review. That's absurd. You are actively rejecting many options for doing this right like further study this summer, the amendment you rejected earlier today, or a revenue path to fund this to name a few. Whatever you do you need to stop calling this painful you don't get to pretend to care about the pain when you're the ones inflicting it. The pension plan, which never would have seen the light of day in an election year, speaker Kroinsky says she wants all stakeholders to be at the table, but it's hard for us to be seated at the table when you've locked the door. She also calls her plan a compromise. It isn't because we gained nothing and we're not allowed to opt out. It's not a compromise when our futures are being held hostage. The furthermore teachers have already compromised by taking on high deductibles on our health care costs. We didn't like it but we took those on because we trusted you. If you have a pandemic during the hardest year of teaching that I or any of my colleagues have had, you're demanding even more higher contributions risk sharing more years of service and zero plan to ensure us against additional costs. You've given us no reason to trust that you won't cut even more down the road. If you vote for this plan you're telling me and every teacher I know that if we are able we should find a new line of work. Even if this plan is implemented there will still be problems. It will lead to a dramatic increase in payroll costs. Speaker Kroinsky's plan forces employees to stay on for years rather than retire and be replaced by lower paid new employees. It's bad policy, it's bad politics and it doesn't make sense, reject it. This vote is going to be a test of the character of every single one of you. And when it comes time for us to vote in primaries in August 2022, we will remember what you did today and in the coming weeks. There are ways to effectively reform the pension, but this plan is garbage. Your choice is clear. I mean either you support educators and state employees, or you don't. Thank you. Thank you, Noah. David Allison, and then Paul Sherrier. Hello. David Allison I'm a teacher at Mount Mansfield Union High School in Jericho and everyone's pretty well spoken here and I think we all know that no one's hopping on this call in support of this proposal. It's actually pretty insulting for anyone who's a teacher and beyond teachers in this state. I'm the kind of person that you want in this state. I came here by choice to go to college I graduated from St. Mike's. I stuck around I started small businesses. I decided to go into teaching, and now I'm about nine years into my teaching, and I have a family and I have two young daughters, and we're the exact kind of people that you want to have here. And what drew us here what made us stay was safety for our family and education system. No one's coming here for our business no one's coming here for our industry, no one's coming they're coming here for our environment and our schools and the people I know that have moved here have done that. And to do this to teachers to do this to police to do this to firefighters to do this to so many people that work in this state is is quite insulting, and it cuts a leg out from under the main problem we have in the state which is getting young families to come here and grow the public space. There are other ways that we can do this. This is certainly I understand a part of the process, but when you start at this point, you're going to catch a firestorm from people who feel scared. I'm a resourceful person, and I am actually frightened. And I'm, we're coming out of a pandemic and I am deathly afraid of this proposal, and what you are suggesting happens to my future retirement, and so many other teachers that I know and so many other people that work. We don't deserve this. We deserve leaders who can be more creative and find better solutions to these problems. And we expect you to do as much and to honor the commitments, just like we have by staying and teaching your kids. Thank you, David. Next we have Paul Sherrier and then Tom Benoit is on deck. Welcome Paul. How you doing. Paul Sherrier, I have been a teacher at Middlebury Union Middle School and Addison Central School District for since 1997. I chose this profession out of a passion to help children for the lifestyle and for the security it provides. I enjoy being a teacher. I thrive on the energy of my students. My passion is still there. I love what I do it shows. I try to bring that energy every day and according to my customers I do a decent job. For security, the promise of a pension was very important to me because I knew I was not going to get rich teaching, but that was part of my choice I accepted that knowing what I was going to receive in retirement. Working full time in the summer to make ends meet was part of my plan to be clear. I am not complaining. I made a choice it all felt worth it to me at the time. I trusted in the promise of my pension and that in the end I would be taken care of. I have made choices based on what I was promised. But to wake up today thinking that I will have to keep up my pace and my energy for 12 more years instead of six and pay more for less money in the end is disheartening to say the least. It is shocking that the legislature has not listened to many voices of concern about the changes in the pension system. I am being told I will have to work twice as long for benefit depending on and I have worked so hard to receive. I'm looking into buying years to retire early, but I'm not looking forward to it. It's a forced choice to do to not do what I love to do as long as I can do it because I simply cannot afford it. I just do not have the time to make up for the losses I would incur under the new proposal. I am a single income household and all of my eggs are in the pension basket. The changes to the pension system are turning my life upside down in the twilight of my career. Over the past year I've been thanked by many politicians. Some of you didn't call me a hero. These are hollow words to me now. If you truly want to thank me for my service, show me that you value what I have done and what I do every single day. I have not missed a day of work this year. Please do that by finding an alternative solution to the problem that was not created in any way by teachers. They do not make any changes to the proposed to do not make any of the proposed changes to the pension system. I appreciate your time. Thank you very much. Thank you, Paul. Next we have Thomas Benoit. And after that on deck is Susan Oliveria. Welcome Tom. Sorry, I'm a little technical difficulty. Can you see me? No, we can hear you, but we can only see your box with your name in it. No reason. Okay, there we go. Welcome. Well, thank you. Hello, my name is Tom Benoit. I'm 50 years old and I've been working for the state of Vermont for almost 22 years. I was a single parent raising two kids working sometimes two to three jobs total. This taught me how to budget spend wisely and go strategically without. I have the option to put money into a raw deferred comp or other retirement areas. Luckily I was legally promised a pension based on 30 years of service and an AFC of my three highest years until now. I'm a total shock and disbelief that this is being proposed with only eight years left until retirement. I'd never make up any of the loss of COLA changes to what I'd receive or that I'd now have to work until age 67. And trying to understand this I go back to my single parent budgeting. If I get my power bill and can't pay it. I don't call up the power company and ask them can you pay my bill. Can you reduce the amount of my bill or could the power company work longer to pay my bill. Yeah that's exactly what your proposal is doing. This proposal is trying to change the pension at the 11th hour, and entirely on the back of state employees. Somehow it's okay to ask me to get a second job, increase my contributions, decrease my pension, or make me work longer all while holding others harmless. No. Your proposal needs to raise taxes on those who have been enjoying the brakes. Use one time monies to jumpstart the recovery and create a dedicated funding mechanism to assure the pension stability. Your proposal has made me lose trust in the citizens legislature. It's clear it's for the entitled and select chosen only your proposal has soured my working relationship with the state of Vermont. I can't help but think what's going on and can it get any worse. Your proposal is and will have lasting negative effects on employee morale retention and recruitment. Thank you for your time. Thank you Tom. Next up is Susan Oliveria after that is Catherine McDonald. Hi, my name is Susan Olivera. I'm a school counselor living in Ferrisburg Vermont. During my career in Vermont, I had no idea what the automatic teacher retirement deduction on my first pay stub was all about. I had not enrolled in it, chosen it, or even known it existed. It was explained that I had no choice. And that this was for my retirement and that the state also contributed toward that distant goal. Each year until recently, I received a written Vermont State teachers retirement system brochure and it explained in detail what I was working on for my retirement as well as what the state of Vermont was committing to on my behalf, what it was promising. Since I began, I've already seen health insurance cuts as a retired as a retirement benefit. I believe that was in 2010. And those were just one year service more than I had earned, got to keep that higher benefit. They had 15 years in while I had 14. I had no loss, but I loved my job. And I kept moving forward. Now I'm at 26 years of service. And anyone who knows me would agree I had my share of hardships in life. But after all these years, I was just starting to feel like I had rounded some corners and could look forward to retirement law at the top of my professional gain, as I had always hoped, not hanging on to a job while falling asleep at my desk, able to pay my bills, my taxes and garden in the summers and perhaps volunteer locally. Now well into the game for me. That means after 26 years my government is confessing that you didn't pay play by your own rules. You borrowed from Peter to pay Paul, you stole for us. And to add insult to injury you're about to mandate that we pay for your losses. Please clean up your own mess, keep your promises and do not blame the victims the pain teachers of Vermont by making us pay for mistakes, our government made. Finally, I just must add after listening to everyone that I really don't trust that the retirement marker won't be moved on all of us again. Thank you. Thank you, Susan. Next up we have Catherine McDonald and after Catherine. We have Jill a bear in on on deck. Good afternoon. Sorry for the tech difficulty. My name is Kate McDonald. I live in Fletcher. I've been a Vermont educator for 1993. I'm currently a career in technical education special needs coordinator at Center for Technology Essex. Based on the rule of 90. I'm slated to reach full retirement in 2029 after working for 35 years in Vermont's public schools. We are entrusted by the public to provide a high quality educational experience for all children. It is a sacred trust that parents and community members enter into with teachers. And it is a compact that teachers willingly accept realizing that while salaries aren't commensurate with the level of education, emotional investment and daily flexibility that's required to do the job well. The entire purpose of building and maintaining a strong community through public education is a worthwhile and noble pursuit that our daily contribution to the greater good taken collectively can lead to positive change and strengthen communities. The same idealism that called me to serve in education led me to trust my elected officials when they promised that the pension system would be solving upon my retirement and the retirement of my colleagues with the plan put forth by this committee. It's clear that my trust was unfounded that I am in fact a Polly Anna for believing that my 25 years and counting commitment to the children of my community was indeed valued by elect my elected officials. Teachers have worked harder this year than we ever have. We paid into the retirement fund is directed without fail to renege on your commitment is to break a sacred trust with the teachers whom you claim to value. Those same teachers that were deemed essential to Vermont's recovery after COVID, the teachers without whom Vermont's future is bleak. Teachers did not create the pension problem nor should teachers bear the sole responsibility and the remedy. This plan put forth is a breach of public trust. Plain and simple a pension is a promise. We have kept our promise to the children of Vermont. I sincerely hope that you will keep your promises to the teachers of Vermont's most precious resource. Thank you. And Representative Colston hello to your daughter I was her VYCC crew leader in 1994. Very fun Vermont is a small state. Thank you Kate. So committee next up we have Jill a bear and on deck is Sarah Thompson. Hi there. Thank you. Good evening. My name is Jill a bear and I'm an educator of Vermont schools. I'm here to tell you I urge you to reconsider your proposal. While I commend you for taking on a seemingly Herculean task. I want to remind you that you may be acting like God's with your decisions, your constituents are suffering. It's not the contract that was promised. The impacts of these changes will be felt for years to come by not only teachers, state employees, all of our students, and yes my own family, currently on my salary alone. My family cannot afford to thrive in our state. I say thrive because we just barely get by on mine and my husband's wages. I have a master's degree. How is this possible. I've often discussed with my husband how amazed I am that in any other profession with a master's degree my children could have a bright future. I've openly joked to those that I work with colleagues and students alike that I would work for free because I love my job. So here I continue in this profession. It feels less like a joke and more like a reality. I've held on to the fact that I've been paying into a solid retirement plan for more than 15 years. I still have a long way to go towards retirement but I'm anxious that when I get there. There won't be anything left. If I have to pay more each month, I will be taking opportunities away from my children. Not just their future, but the lives they're currently living. After looking at your proposal, it appears I can expect to have to pay in over $230 a month. This isn't small change. This is more than two weeks worth of groceries, a month's worth of fuel needed to get to my job. What may seem like small percentages to you have huge impacts. If you step down from your clouds and visit a school for a day, you will find overworked educators who gave their all because they are passionate for what they do. You will be in awe of the conversations our students are engaged in and will be amazed at the possibilities that are ahead of them. I urge you to review your proposal and make budgetary changes elsewhere. It is the right thing to do. Thank you very much. Thank you for being with us, Jill. I appreciate that. Next up, we have Sarah Thompson and coincidentally after that will be Michelle Thompson. Welcome, Sarah. Thank you so much. My name is Sarah Thompson. Most of the students who graduated in my high school class that went on to college no longer live in Vermont. Vermont has little to offer in terms of diverse reasonable paying stable jobs, gutting these pensions will push more young professionals out of the state. I've been a teacher at Virginia Union High School for 16 years. I've been paying in and making my life plans based on a pension system that would allow me to retire after my age and years of service equal 90. I had no choice in paying into this account. And now you are changing the rules halfway through my career. None of my non teacher friends have held the same job in the same location for 16 years. None of my non teacher friends have a master's degree. All of my friends make more money than I do. But I told myself, it's okay, you have a pension teaching is a labor of love. It is exhausting. No one should have to teach for 45 years. If you're out of time, you just can't maintain the energy and effort required to work with children. Teachers burn out teachers shouldn't feel trapped by their pension requirements to work a decade past their prime. Students deserve better school districts deserve better, there will be less turnover as more teachers stay in schools to earn their pensions, producing the available jobs for new young enthusiastic teachers. School districts will bear the brunt of paying for these older teachers who will be at the top of the pay scale. I need to share a story from a friend of mine today at school, my friend told me in August I was the school's teacher of the year. In October I was a finalist in the state and in March I'm wondering if I'll stay in education. This is a shame. Please find a way to provide teachers with the pension they were promised the problems and funding started over 30 years ago, you can't expect to solve this problem on the back of teachers overnight. So, we have our end of the deal by supporting challenging, loving and educating your students and our own. We did our job. Now please do yours. Thank you so much. Thank you Sarah. Next up is Michelle Thompson, and after that is Andrew Emrick. Good evening. I'm going to a committee meeting from earlier this week and was struck by something that the chair said. Madam chair, you said that the exemption for those within five years of retirement is not a magic number. You noted that those people are making plans for where they're going to live. And what they're going to live on. And it does not make sense to make changes to those people planning their retirement. I can only be 32, but I am planning my retirement. I have been planning my retirement since the day I took my first job out of college. I made strategic and diverse investments early on to set myself up for an early retirement if I wanted to. Five years ago, I left my home state to come work for the state of Vermont because of what the state could offer in terms of lifestyle job satisfaction and benefits. I took a pay cut, but having a pension in addition to my other investments was worth that pay cut. I continued to make my retirement plans strategically based on the retirement group I entered into upon hire. I made life and family choices to move and grow my family in Vermont. We are taxpayers. My husband and I bought a home big enough to grow our family in. We have been making improvements to our home with the full intention of establishing and maintaining roots here in Vermont. Our daughter will eventually go to the school that backs up to our backyard. These life changes required planning along the way, which included factoring in how these life changes would impact our savings and retirement plans. These proposed changes undermine all the reasons I moved to Vermont as a young professional. Myself, along with my fellow state employees and teachers, all have made our retirement plans. We made these plans on our date of hire. Anything less than what we were promised is unacceptable. Thank you. Thank you, Michelle. Next up is Andrew Emrick and on deck is Sylvan Ross. Thank you all for being here. I typically use zoom with five and six year olds and yes they are experts on this platform. So speaking to grownups tonight, it's a little different. My name is Andrew Emrich and I'm a kindergarten teacher at Thatcher Brook Primary School. I grew up in Vermont, graduated from UVM and have taught in Vermont communities for the past 10 years. On Wednesday, once I get over the initial shock of the proposed pension changes, started to think about how this is going to impact me and my fellow teachers. I'm going to keep my income of 40% into the retirement system. With these proposed changes, that would mean over the next 35 years I would see about $40,000 less in take home pay. I'm able to keep the additional one and a quarter percent myself and invest it, even with a modest return of 6%, that $40,000 turns into $120,000 and compound interest is a wonderful thing. The teaching to make a difference in my students lives. I love seeing the light bulb go off in my students heads when they're learning, but that will not help to pay my utility bills and retirement. I accepted the teaching would not make me rich, but that acceptance was with the understanding that I would have great health benefits and can rely on my pension to help me live a modest lifestyle and retirement. Both of these systems are now under attack. This proposal would have me working an additional 10 years, trying to think about getting off from my classroom carpet after sitting crisscross applesauce at age 57, let alone 67 makes my knees and back hurt now. Forcing teachers that are at the top of the pay scale to teach longer is going to hurt taxpayers in the long run. This proposal will help fix the pension issues, but only because there won't be anyone left that wants to teach. What I love upon seeing this proposal is that ought to find a new profession or lead the state like many other young Vermonters. If anyone were to ask me if I think they should pursue a career in education, my answer would be a resounding no run in the opposite direction. This is not the first time the promise made to teachers about our pension is being broken and it likely won't be the last. I teach my kindergarten students that people won't want to play with you when you don't follow the rules and play fair, changing the rules halfway through a game isn't fair, yet that's what's happening. This system has major problems, but teachers should not be the ones responsible fixing something we didn't break. Implementing attacks on the highest earners in the state using more federal funds and responsible investing with lower admin fees are ways to solve the problem. Continue to insult educators by making them pay more get less work longer is wrong. Teachers believe education brings value to society, but it's so sad that society seems no value in teachers. I have more than two minutes to talk to you all about something that will impact me and others for the rest of our lives. Thank you. Thank you, Andrew. Next up is Sylvan Ross, and after that is Robin Bebo long. Thank you. My name is Sylvan Ross and I'm a resident of Richmond and the third year teacher was worked at Jericho elementary schools since graduating from Champlain College in 2018. I tend to be preparing my home for Passover, but I feel like I need my voice to be heard so I am here. I'm exactly what Vermont is trying to attract and retain a young professional who hopes to work raise a family and live here. Since I came to college seven years ago, I have had every intention of staying and teaching in Vermont until retirement. I represent the future Vermont teachers and Vermont's teachers and families. However, under the new proposal, it's just not worth it. I started teaching at age 21. After graduating college early, you are now asking me in order to fully fulfill my benefits to teach until I am 67. That means I kindergarten teacher will have to work. We'll have to teach for 47 years before I can retire. That is a significant increase in years that I have to teach in order to collect less benefits than I was promised all while contributing more. I am young and I can go teach somewhere else for a different pension, a better pension. The next year of teaching has been incredibly difficult. I have felt disrespected, depleted and taken advantage of again and again. If you decide to continue with the proposed plan, teaching in Vermont is even more unsustainable. I love my job, but I am not a martyr. Young talented teachers like myself should receive the compensation compensation we deserve for the crucial, highly talented work we do. You are asking us to pay for a shortfall that the state has made year after year. If you move forward with this new plan, I like many other young teachers will leave the state or find a different job. Highly qualified teachers provide quality education, which is key to economic growth, fighting our state's population decline and building a successful democracy. By disrespecting teachers, we are pushing professionals out of schools and leaving significant negative impacts on our children. This plan is telling us that teachers and state employees that they are not valued and unimportant. You need to do better. Thank you. Thank you for joining us tonight, Sylvan. Next I have on my list Robin Bebo Long and on deck is Jennifer Zoller. Hello, my name is Robin Bebo Long and currently I teach for the Two Rivers Supervisor Union, and I live in Rochester. I came to express the perspective of myself and some colleagues on this proposal and our relationships with the communities we serve. I could talk about how this proposal will discourage people from entering what I consider to be an honorable profession. I could wonder if you thought that making teachers teach until they were 67 was a remedy for our teaching shortage. I could talk about promises made to public servants that are routinely broken. After all, our healthcare benefits were greatly reduced recently. There are so many thoughts and paths that can go down in response to your proposal, and thankfully many of the speakers before have done that. But what I want to make clear is that this is another burden that is being passed on to the towns. Another pull in the threads that binds our communities, a thread that includes many years of telling towns to level fund their budgets, a thread that includes dismantling small schools in the name of efficiency. Now you're including the cost of this proposal. Now their highest paid teachers will have no choice but to stay. Now they'll be stuck covering the cost of much older teachers who are more likely to develop health conditions that may result in extended periods of sick leave. Now a state that already has one of the oldest teaching workforces in the country will lose the innovation and fresh ideas that come with younger teachers, you've heard them. They're strengths that come with cross-generational partnerships. Now you've empowered that guy, you know, we all have them in our town meeting that yells and complains about teacher salaries. Beth Pierce says that the changes would be painful. It doesn't seem like the state is taking much responsibility for that pain, particularly when you consider the money that just came in. The pain for teachers is to pay more, work longer and get less. The pain for towns is higher budgets. How much more can towns and teachers take before they unravel, be creative, find another source to fund and fix this mess. Thank you for coming tonight, Robin. Next we have Jennifer Zoller and after that is Patrick Lean. Hi, I'm Jennifer Zoller. I work for the health department. And in addition to my normal job, I've also been working on COVID-19 contact tracing team since the very beginning of the pandemic. I've worked overtime every week for over a year now. That's evenings, weekends, every single holiday. It is so disrespectful to me, my colleagues and teachers across the state that you are choosing now to gut our pensions. I also grew up right here in Vermont, and I chose a state school for both undergraduate and graduate education, as did my husband who was a state engineer. We both chose to work for the state because we believe in public service, helping our neighbors, supporting our community. We've been working for salaries well below industry standard for our fields, with the understanding that though we'll make less during our careers we'll be able to retire with dignity. That's the agreement we made with the state. We've been holding up our end of this agreement. The state should hold up theirs. The cuts being proposed would be devastating for my family. Even less than we already do, working a full decade longer than expected and receive less than we have financially planned for at retirement. Where is the dignity in this plan? To those who avoid support for us, I thank you. And those of you who put this proposal together, those that think state workers and teachers should shoulder this burden that we did not create, you should be ashamed of yourselves. Please thank the health department for our tireless work through COVID and then rip away our pensions in the same breath. It's disrespectful. Remember that it's the people that do the work. People teach your kids, people put vaccinations in your arms. You may think voters have short memories that doing this now far from an election will shield you. I'm here to say that I will remember. I will make sure that thousands of state workers and teachers will remember and I will make damn sure that thousands more of your constituents remember as well. Thank you. Thank you, Jen for being here tonight. Next up. I have Patrick lean and after that on deck will be Joe and Smith. Good afternoon. I'm Patrick lean and my wife, Samantha Mishka and I are teachers at Spalding High School in Barry. We have long planned to live and teach in Vermont for the entirety of our working lives. As young educators, we love it here. I grew up in Montpelier, my wife in Rochester, and we've always wanted to stick around in order to teach the next generation of students contribute money to the economy and participate in the community of this little state that we call home. However, the news of the recent pension proposal on Wednesday could not have been more disheartening. We are suddenly second guessing our long held goals and dreams. Like many other educators in the state, we feel cheated and betrayed by what is being put forth cheated because we have held up our end of the bargain by paying into this system and betrayed because we will now be made to shoulder even more than we did before. I come here out of anger out of worry out of sadness and desperation. This proposal means Samantha and I will either need to abandon the state we have always called called home or the careers that we have built since 2012. This proposal means our daughter of three months may not be able to grow up in the state that we have forever loved. This proposal means we now need to rethink our entire future. And that is just us. The impacts of this proposal will ripple throughout communities in Vermont for years to come. Older teachers will be forced to work longer. Younger teachers will stop coming here. Students and parents will see a drop in education and lose out on dedicated professionals who want to be here. 15 Sir. You're not rushed this proposal through the legislative process. Please listen to us, the middle class hardworking teachers who you say you support and appreciate. Please rework and make revisions that will allow people like my wife and I to maintain our careers, our happiness and our lives in this state. Thank you for your time. Thank you for being here tonight Patrick. Next up, we have Joanne Smith, and on deck is Mandy Alarcon. Good evening, everyone. Thank you for giving me the time. I believe this proposal, as most of us who have spoken here tonight, amounts to a fundamental betrayal of trust and demonstrates how very little regard you have for teachers and state workers and our commitment to this state and our children. I believe you can do better, much better for me and for all of the state workers and Vermont teachers. This is my first grade at Thatcher Brook Primary School in Waterbury, Vermont. This is my 15th year at Thatcher Brook and my 25th year of teaching in Vermont. I hold national board certification in early childhood language arts and a master's degree in elementary education. I have served on several leadership committees for the Harwood Unified Union School District and have mentored a dozen or more pre-service and beginning teachers for local colleges, universities, and my district. I have pursued these opportunities and served my district and my state because I am committed to doing my part for our children, your children, who deserve the very best start to their educational journey. I have been steadfast and supremely dedicated, working long hours on the weekends and through many summer days. I have traveled out of state to receive trainings. I have spent my own money on books and resources for my classroom. I have supported my colleagues and have tried to be the very best role model for my students and their families. Although it may seem that I am exceptional in my dedication and service to Vermont's children, I assure you that I am just one of hundreds, many of whom you've heard tonight. I am one of hundreds of teachers who care as deeply and as are passionately dedicated to their students and their schools. After a very long year filled with some of the most grueling work I have ever had to do as a Vermont educator, I am completely shocked that this proposal is being offered. It is truly an outrage and a betrayal of trust at the highest level. In the course of my career, I have made financial decisions based on promises made to me by the Vermont State Teachers Retirement System and now when I am nearing the end of my beloved career, your proposal would have me working longer, paying more into the system and receiving less compensation. At this point in my life, I can't go back and undo the hundreds of financial decisions that my husband and I have made for our family over the course of almost three decades of service. I shouldn't have to. Vermont teachers should not bear the burden of fixing a system we did not break. You must do better. Thank you for your time. Thank you, Joanne. Next up is Mandy Alakan and after that is Bob Morgan on deck. Thank you so much. Thanks for meeting with us here tonight. I had a great great great speech prepared. And as I'm listening here tonight, I'm realizing that I'm instead going to look right at each of you and ask that you know that I am one person of many that are sitting in front of you tonight. And who are in this situation. I teach fully remote this year so I'm well aware how easy it is to kind of zone out and you know not pay attention as I drone on and on. So, instead I'm just going to sit here and talk with you tonight. But no actually it's been a fabulous year I've had really great students and we've had a good year together. Really what I want to talk about today is, you know, for you to imagine that you were in our position. That you're suddenly told that your pay now and in the future is going to be cut because of the negligence of others. And how that would feel. How would that affect your family. Okay. It really feels like there have been bad bets made against my future, my children's future with my money, essentially. What I really want you to think about here is, if you were the ones in this circumstance that your pay is suddenly being cut even though you've held up your end of the bargain. Do you actually think that you, or any of your colleagues would suggest this plan that's been put forward. Do you think that you would propose that you, or your colleagues are in any way responsible for fixing this problem that you didn't cause. No, you wouldn't. In fact, that thought wouldn't even cross your mind. None of you would even entertain discussing this further. It wouldn't even be a starting place or proposal used to compromise, because you would know it is absurd. It's so insulting. And it's a common thread that I've listened tonight this is a common thread I'm hearing from people. It's I'm hoping I hope you're hearing that and you're paying attention to that. And my hope going forward is that you'll think about that, and that you'll support those of us that have been diligently supporting our youngest for monitors, and that you move forward in your thinking, and in your future proposals and in your voting, accordingly. Thanks so much for listening tonight. Thanks for being with us Mandy. Next, we'll call up Bob Morgan. And after that is Thomas payer. First, I want to thank the committee for having this hearing and taking the time to listen to everyone and also thank the committee for their work and tackling what is a very, very difficult issue for sure. I'm Morgan, I'm CEO of North Country Federal Credit Union. I serve on the Vermont business roundtable pension reform committee. And, as I believe many of you know the status quo with the current pension system is not viable or sustainable. It reminds me of products that were created and cause the financial crisis, including negative amortization mortgages, where you pay into something only to see the balance rise, and it leads to very disastrous. Making changes now will will, at some point, most likely in the near future lead to a negative drop in our bond ratings, and that will increase the amount of money that we have to use every single year to cover pensions and other state obligations and take money away from the services that for monitors need now and in the future. This is an urgent problem. Fiscal responsibility is really needed at this point the proposal put forward by. Treasurer Pierce will create a path towards sustainability for the system and that bill in the end benefit everybody. And lastly, the, this issue isn't something that was created today. People kicked down the can for the road for many, many years, and it's really fallen into your lap to be able to resolve. And again, I commend you for having the courage to know it's a tough issue. It requires clear leadership and action on your part at this point. Thank you for having me today. Thank you, Bob. Next up is Thomas payer, and last on deck is Amy K hopper. Hello. And thank you for having me here today and all of us. My name is Thomas payer. I'm a high school math teacher at Winooski High School. My wife is an English language arts teacher at Virginia Middle School. We live here in Stocksboro, Vermont. I was named the 2019 Bronson teacher the year. And with that sense of a sense of purpose and need to promote teaching within the state that I take very personal to hear what came out on Wednesday is proposal that doesn't even begin to compromise or really look at what is possible, but rather wholesale takes on the treasurer's proposal. It's just, it, it makes me wonder what is teaching in Vermont. And that's really terrible. I wonder who I am and who my, my colleagues are in this state and and how we're viewed. And I just can't say enough I am so sick and exhausted of being headed against my community over and over again for situations that we have no control over whatsoever between health care between these pension costs. This is this is not our faults. I want to serve my community and I want to be strong and that's, but I continually have to define who I am and and reach out to people in ways that that are just not supportive of the teaching of profession. I grew up in poverty teaching was the ticket to a stable life. And I just don't see that anymore. And it's really frustrating and and it's, it's sickening to me to consider that that I may have to give this up at some point. Thank you very much. Thank you for being with us Thomas. Because of cancellations and folks who didn't weren't able to get on the meeting tonight. For whatever reason, Amy Khofer is our last witness on the list so welcome Amy and thank you for sharing your thoughts with us. We're not hearing you hold on, let's see if we can figure that out. Okay, so here we go. If we see Amy appear back in the attendees list, let's make sure that we get her in to testify will give that a moment she may have just gotten disconnected. Oh yes, we can see you and hear you had to relaunch the whole thing but it was fine. I'm Amy Khofer, and I am an elementary school teacher at Thatcherbrook primary school in Waterbury. I have been a teacher at Thatcherbrook for 21 years. My first year teaching salary was $27,550. Obviously I did not go into teaching for the money. I became a teacher because I wanted to make a difference in the lives of children in our community. As I began my career path and signed that first contract, I remember thinking, is this the right career choice for me financially? Can I pay my mortgage, bills, raise my two children, afford a different decent lifestyle? My answer was no, not on $27,550, but my future as a teacher could. And this future included incremental salary increases, thank goodness, and the Vermont State teachers retirement system, of which I would begin to access at the age of 62. This retirement plan which our state government created has provided me with a personal statement every year outlining my financial future. This plan means everything to me. It's my financial stability. My teaching salary has not afforded me the luxury of setting aside much money for private investments. As the financial burden of raising a family, two kids in college take up most of my paycheck. I chose this career path knowing I could retire after 30 years of service with a pension. Almost 22 years later, eight years before I retire, you are proposing to take this away. You are saying to me that I have to teach elementary age students until I am 67 years old in order to receive the benefits of a system that were promised to me at 62. In addition, you are proposing that I pay more into this system only to get less out of it. The increase of 6.25 to 7% and then basing my final compensation on my last seven years of teaching feels like a slap in the face. Our elected officials must find another way. Teachers did not create this problem. We should not have to shoulder this burden nor make the sacrifice in order for this to be fixed. Surely there are other alternative solutions. Thank you. Thank you, Amy. I understand that Molly Stoner has some remarks that some of her colleagues sent along with her and since we have a few more minutes. Molly, if you have remarks and writing that you would like to share with us, I would like to invite you back in to share them. Thank you for sticking with the long hearing and also for bringing some thoughts from some of your colleagues. If you just remind us again where you teach. We need you to unmute. There we go. Sure. I teach down in Dumberston and I've collected some quotes from people in the whole wind and southeast supervisory union. So, like, I'm just finding them here. Rotina is a high school educator. She says the changes in the pension plan impact my level of fear and anxiety for my financial future. As a result, I'm currently considering early retirement and discussing this option with my financial planner. As educators working through a pandemic, we've been forced to go above and beyond with no additional stipend or comp time. Please don't take away what we have worked so hard for and deserve. And pardon me, I have to scroll up an email chain through each of these. I summarized that one in mind. One just says I would consider teaching in another state now. As a new teacher, it's very disheartening to read about the pension changes in Vermont. I was hoping to make a life here, but I'm seriously considering moving to another state that has better retirement benefits for teachers. This will be on my mind as I look to purchase property and I think the state would want to be attracting young professionals, not pushing them out. I know other young teachers who are leaving for the same reason that was from May. I think if we're going to be treated this poorly, this disrespectfully our livelihoods and futures treated this cavalierly. It's time to protest and that is from Melissa. Sorry, some of this is me replying. So I'm trying to get past this. And this news is very disheartening, especially since I'm currently going through some major health issues at the moment. I've been paying into Vermont State pension for 22 years and was planning to retire in 12 years at the age of 58. Given the new rules, I'll have to work for another 21 years before I can retire. And given my current health issues, I'm not sure I'll be alive in 21 years or what my state of health will be at that time. I was hoping to be able to enjoy some of my retirement in relative good health. But with this change of retirement date, I don't know if this will be a possibility. And that was from Joanna. And one, here's another one from Michelle. I've been a teacher in Vermont since I graduated from Castleton State College in 2009. I've been proud of the schools I worked in and the students I've worked with and felt like I had found a permanent home. I've been fully vested for several years in a retirement system that I thought was a gift because many people did not get such a perk from the jobs. Teaching is thankless and tiring and the small benefits we get, decent health insurance, retirement packages are slowly being taken from us. If we question these choices, we are told we don't care about the students enough. I've never considered leaving the state of Vermont's teaching system until I heard now, until I heard how poorly the retirement system was being managed. Adding approximately 10 more years onto my required service as a teacher who started at 23, we are being hurt the most by this change. This comes just a few years after our health insurance was gutted and we are all handed $5,000 deductibles. I'm finding it harder to justify the job as benefits are slowly being removed and expectations such as working 15 plus hours a day during a pandemic are only increasing. The state of Vermont should be less concerned with bringing in new teachers and more concerned when vested teachers decide to leave the state and take our retirement savings with us. Investing it myself would prove better than leaving it in the state's hands. The system is in a deficit now that will only be worse if vested teachers take their money and leave for another state. I believe that I got one more today. Or yesterday at the time all blends together doesn't it. That's COVID time. Right. That I think was just discussion of the particulars. Sorry, I wasn't necessarily prepared to do this part. I appreciate it given that we had 17 or 18 people cancel for tonight. It's nice to be able to fit a few extras in. Oh good actually there. Here's another one. Thank you Molly for speaking up on this for us this afternoon I don't know about you but I'm depending on that money as a ASAP in order to start the next chapter of my life. This year the demands are so immense that I question whether I can even make it to 65 from 59 to retire. I know 67 is too much. I love my students but the job leaves me not much left from my personal life. I've been watching all this pension conversation the last few months wondering if I should even try to buy a house. It just seems like teachers are not respected by our legislature. There's got to be other things they can cut to support us. At 59 I have to go the long haul. It's not like I'm a 35 year old teacher who can change careers at this point. They'll probably drive me out before 65 that she goes on about some other things. I don't know about you Molly but I'm exhausted this year for what it takes out of us. It's so hard. It's hard to have anything left for a personal life. Even on a good year it's hard to travel and see my family on the coast. And she just goes on to talk about the challenges of the COVID year which you all know and I'm sure experience yourselves. So thank you for listening to those other voices from Southern Wyndham County. Teachers on the border of two other states. So I think it's a precarious place to be. Thanks so much. Appreciate your time tonight for listening to all of us. Thank you Molly for collecting extra perspectives from some of your colleagues. And I want to thank all of the participants tonight and the folks who are watching along on the YouTube stream. It means a lot for us to be able to take this time and listen to our neighbors. And I very much appreciate that on top of all of the hard work that you're doing in the in the daytime that you are willing to come out and and engage in this in the evening. We have another we have another public hearing scheduled for Monday. In order to accommodate the large number of people who signed up for that public hearing we've extended it by a half an hour so it'll be two and a half hour public hearing. I'll probably committee members give you a five minute bio break in the middle because that's a long time to be glued to your chair. I also want to let folks know who maybe are watching tonight and signed up to to do Monday night is we're going to go ahead and send invitations to everyone who's registered so far. Because we found ourselves with so many cancellations tonight that we're actually finishing a little bit early so we're going to add more people than we think we can get to on Monday. And I want to apologize in advance if we add you to the meeting but we don't get to you in two and a half hours and again reiterate that anybody who wasn't able to sign up or, or maybe already testified but would like to send us their thoughts can do so in writing. And the email address is on our committee page where where our agenda is. That's just what I was going to share Sarah that if people feel like they have more than they could say in the two minutes, or if they're people who couldn't make it tonight. We can take written testimony and we'll make sure that gets to all the committee members. Yeah, I especially want to thank Molly for taking the time and for the work she's been doing as a fourth grade teacher. All right, thank you all. That is the end of our witness list for tonight and and I look forward to talking with more folks on the weekend in person here in my home community and on Monday during our.