 Greetings. This is the moment of mic check. Anyone else need to check the mic? Check, check, check. Charge. What are we actually doing again? Like the welcome back. Good to see all of you, Bob. Okay. That was just your moment of mic check. We'll hold for a few more minutes to be able to get folks in here. Please note that we have a different order today. So we have, we have flip things all around. It's very exciting. All right, I was holding to be able to see if we could pick up for him, but that's that's one not necessary today and two doesn't look like it's happening just yet. But today is going to be our normal tag updates. It'll be a good time. Greetings, dims. Everybody back here in heartbeat from coupon. I think I think the last people are now back. Yeah. All right, let's go ahead and kick us off. Welcome to our normal anti trust policy notice normal meeting logistics you are here you have made it to see a member's present today. This gets updated over in the to see tracker over on the public thing so here's our agenda today. I'll be chatting about the special election and then I'll hand it off to dims and everyone else be able to run through a tag updates note that new order that I talked about at the top of the call. So we have basically flip things run them backwards so with that. Oh, goodness. It is hanging here. There we go. That's what I was going for. All right. As you all know, we have had a to see members stepped down. And we have a special election open and these are open from your friendly neighborhood governing board. So, if you have someone that wants to be nominated here, governing board can do it. This closes at noon Pacific Day with the hope of being able to have this person seated by July 1. That is all that I had on this one. Any other questions. Okay, seeing no questions everyone knows how these go. Good, good. Good to see all of you. And we will now move on and tag storage come on in. It's been, it's been quite a couple of weeks, of course, because of cube con, but a couple of updates in terms of the projects. So cube fs is in the process of being voted for. If you haven't voted already. Just a quick reminder that it's, it's waiting. Feel free to ask any questions. If there are any. Open EBS. We had some discussions around the next steps. I believe we're still waiting for to see sponsor on this. So, I think we're we're pausing until until somebody from the to see is is able to put their hand up on this one and the curve storage system. We recommended for sandbox. I believe it's in the list at the moment. In terms of tag meetings, we're going to be following on with some of the work with the cartographers project. We're putting together some of the technical maturity model steps for the storage side of the world. And tomorrow we have a presentation from the project, which should be quite interesting. So, if anybody is interested in it, tomorrow is a time to join the tackle. And finally, I wanted to, I wanted to raise, I guess a question around the tag governance. When we originally set up the six and the tags, the charter called for a two year term on the chairs. In my case, and I'm sure this applies to some of the other chairs as well. We've probably exceeded our term by quite a bit. And I guess the and partly that's because of, you know, nobody else coming forward. And probably also a little bit of us not necessarily, you know, going out and actively looking for other chairs as well. But I guess the question is, how do we want to resolve that? Going forward, do we want to, do we want to, I guess, renew terms or do we want to fake what we don't want to do, I guess is have tags without chairs because that would be not great. But I'm looking, I'd love to hear from Tim's or Amy as to as to what what we think the way forward should be for this. I could be misremembering, which, which I do often, but I thought that that was a tag specific that those were that was decided individually by different tags in terms of the structure that like tag security had set up a structure I think for So, so having had the pleasure of writing the operating model for the tanks with Clinton, what we had put into the overall operating model, which applies to all the tanks is that there are three co-chairs. They're, they need to be approved by the, by the TOC and that each co-chair has a two year term, and that there is a level of rotation so that you never rotate out all of the chairs at the same time. That was the original intention, but of course, in some cases, the chairs haven't rotated or changed that because, you know, just finding enough volunteers, I guess, in some cases. So, yeah, that's basically where we are at the moment. There's, there's some comments in chat, which I think are relevant and worth being able to bring up because the ideal is in fact to be able to mentor a new chair and to be able to help like pull these things along. I also recognize that, frankly, due to lack of time and all of that, that probably hasn't been as available. So I'd kind of like to be able to do something, someone in between, as far as like yes, we can, we can definitely go towards like being able to say, all right, we can do new chairs and that sort of thing, but also being able to follow tech securities model of being able to have more tech leads that are available to then step up. And I might pass this like, if anyone disagree, yeah, Emily, that's exactly where I was coming on it. Thank you. Within tag security, we have set it up such that you do not have to be a technical lead to become a co-chair. Part of the deliberation in the security tags co-chair selection process was largely around the value that each co-chair brought to the tag itself. So we always had somebody that was very community growth and development focused. We had someone that was very industry organization aligned. So they have a lot of memberships and a lot of industry organizations to kind of like bring that community into the tag. And then there was another one that primarily focused on the organization and execution of the tag governance structure to include triaging. Now, that's not going to work for everybody. We do have a lot of active participants, but we also have a lot of ongoing projects and a somewhat documented mechanism to elevate individuals that lead projects into a technical leadership position and then nominating them. We recently ran through a study of the level of effort involved in organizing and executing our tag and versus how many folks in leadership positions are taking on that work and we had to increase the amount of technical leads for that group because of that. A lot of this is mentoring new individuals to become projects, project leads, a lot of it's going to be recruiting and making sure that they're set up for success with support and clearly defined goals and objectives for that project leadership. I would encourage everybody to take a look at the processes that we have. They're not perfect by any means constantly refining them, but this is an ongoing problem that exists within the community. So we're very aware of it. No, and I think that's really great what's happening in the security tag and I think you probably have a little bit more perhaps community interaction than some of the other tags. I think tags sort of differ in size. We've been quite successful in terms of adding tech leads to the storage tag, for example, and we promoted one of the tech leads to a co-chair as well as part of this process. But yeah, nevertheless, for example, my personal position is, yeah, I'm over my two-year term. So I want to understand if I should be standing down or if I should continue or how do we deal with that? So I would strongly recommend that when your term is coming up to an end, identifying someone in the community as a technical lead or with an industry that has an interest and mentoring them from a continuity perspective to showcase to them, this is the level of effort. This is the work that's involved. Are you interested? I'd like to get you to a position to be able to do this. That means showing up more to these meetings, participating and provide that clear path. Definitely, the earlier you can do that, it's always going to be better. Yeah, I just wanted to chime in from tag observability and say, you know, we're experiencing some challenges here as well, and I wonder if we might consider having sort of a shared calendar of all of these elections or potential place opportunities for folks to contribute and join all of the tags or some of the tags by having like a cadence, maybe quarterly communication from the TOC highlighting opportunities in the ecosystem of tags versus kind of maybe to augment the work that we're doing to try to find and source both co-chairs and tech leads for our respective tags. You know, the latter kind of relies on our personal connections or professional connections that already exist, and perhaps some communication at a slightly higher altitude, you know, kind of saying hey, opportunities are bound, that might help cross pollinate and spread more broadly as a proposal. I would also add that while communications to a larger audience are excellent, nothing beats reaching out to somebody in your Slack channel and one-on-one filing up with them and checking in with them. That is where we have had the most success and security tag is that one-on-one engagement. Hey, I see you joined our channel. Here are some easy issues. Could you take a look at this one? I'll follow up with you in two weeks to see if you have any questions about it or if you're able to contribute and then continuing to mentor that relationship forward. Ricardo, Bob, one of you want to voice? Yeah, I think in terms of tag runtime, I mean, we don't have a lot of participation in our meetings, so typically we have four and five, and typically they're different people that show up every time. I've been trying to reach out to some people, but it's not that easy to get interest on that specific tag. I think it's just not the more popular area of cloud native, so that's why I think it's also been kind of challenging. So, besides maybe having some sort of ambassador in the tag, it might be helpful if some other folks within the TOC umbrella or tag umbrella can help out maybe tag contributor strategy, help out with some outreach. And maybe have something that says, you know, look, we have these tags, you know, provide this participation, or, you know, have some Twitter type of announcement, like, you know, we need some tag, please participate. So I think that might be helpful. I'll plus one with general like social support for the tags. We did something similar in Kubernetes with the league, we literally have a upstream marketing team to help advertise this stuff. A lot of us was started by Paris a few years ago. The other thing, at least on the comms, or I'm saying on the comms. Like, I would say like six months to your term is up is kind of like the final point and be like, okay, I want to potentially stick with this for like another term, or I need to start really thinking about, you know, mentoring someone into to take my spot. And also, like, I will say from personal experience it's not always easy. I have like personally mentored a few people to try and take, take like my spot in as a contrabex lead, and they have all had to back out out of time commitments, and then finally, defining the role their responsibilities and creating additional roles to sort of distribute the load makes it a lot easier for people to potentially, you know, take on those positions or give them stepping stones to be able to you know eventually go up to those positions. Any other thoughts from the TSE members, Katie, Matt. Okay, yeah, I do have one thought real quick Tim's. You know, in all of this stuff, right, it's, it's a little bit of mentorship is culture as we go. Right, it's a culture thing that to identify when somebody shows up and encourage them to come back or encourage them in what they're doing. If somebody volunteers saying, you know, I might want to do this I haven't done it before, write down their name and figure out how do you help them take a next step. I think it's, it's a culture thing that that we can all probably learn to do. And the more people that we encourage that way. They have a good environment around the more people they'll tell about it the more people who can show up so that's on top of already being useful. But being in an environment where they can grow in learn skills engage in. It's about creating that tone I think. And that doesn't come naturally to me. And so I'm sure it doesn't to others. Thanks Matt. So I have, I have two thoughts I generally agree with all the forward looking positive set of things that we need to do, you know, over a period of time to cultivate for new folks. For the short term I would say, you know, two things one is, there is a list of to see contributors that I'm trying to redirect to tags. So, let me think about it a little bit more. I was chatting with Amy yesterday on what we could be doing there, how we could like channel those set of people who self identify that they are to see contributors and make it into attack contributors. So, people can add their names so we know exactly who to call on right. So that is one the other one is for those folks whose terms are almost ending or already ended. I think we should just renew what we need to do so. We should follow the process that we have already in terms of like notifying the TOC and getting, you know, plus ones from the TOC members and such to at least get everything back on paper, you know, restart the terms, essentially, and not let it, you know, just go as it is happening right now. It's a calendar for sure for ever. Yeah, so whether we want to maintain it at the tag level or whether we want to do it at the TOC level. I'm open to suggestions there, and Amy can probably help with that too. In the interest of time, I am going to move us on though. That was my next sentence. Yes. Thank you. Thank you very much tech storage. We now have another problem be able to work on and we could in fact spend another hour on this. So thank you Alex for for this. So, I will pass us off to security folks for whoever's going to be voiced for that. We may have lost them. I know that there was some conflicting issues that showed up this morning. Got it. Okay, so Emily, I will allow you to be able to be voiced for this there. So the secure software factory reference architecture paper is published. They had good community feedback. The next steps are to actually go through with the reference architecture itself. There was an open issue on the repo about being able to apply the reference architecture to CNCF projects. There was a lot of really great discussion during KubeCon around that and there is even more discussion on the issue. So if you're interested, go ahead and check that out. The cloud native security white paper version two is now available. We've got some key updated content in there to include ransomware because that is a growing topic, especially in cloud computing environments. So check that one out. We also now have a NIST controls mapping 853 rev five. There is a lot of work that is being done in this space. They have a version two deliverable that will be coming out that expands I believe beyond this 853 rev five and potentially looks at testing some of these capabilities. And then the cloud native security white paper version one dot oh audio recording is more or less available. It's not officially public, but you can preview it using the link within the slide decks. This was put together in response to a lot of community members having long COVID and not being able to read documentation. They're far easier for them to listen to the documentation. So it's broken up into small manageable chunks or if you've got a lot of time, you can listen to the entire file itself. It features voices across the tag security community. I know you had more so go ahead. There's a few up and coming presentations and this is just a list of some of them I've had folks reach out to me since kubecon that will be submitting for more presentations to the security tag. And we would like to welcome our new technical leads Michael Lieberman Marie, Marina more and Raghashree. They are fantastic individuals and we are happy to have them to help take on the workload of managing such a large tag. All right. Thank you very much. Actually questions anything else before I move on. I just wanted to ask if there are any shoes that we need to work on on the TOC side to help security tag. I think overall the tag is doing well. I think they have reached a point where they've generated a lot of their research and the paper oriented needs from the community. It's a matter of updating them at this point and sustaining them with the exception of the auditability portion of the Charter. That's where the controls group comes in. The next steps I believe that their group can be more largely successful in is a lot more of that technical implementation. So the reference to architecture partnering with the foundation to ensure all CNCF projects have the associated supply chain mechanisms that they need to provide a greater level of assurance that our CNCF projects were built in a secure fashion and then being able to attest that. So that is probably the largest next leap in those two areas auditability and actual application of the recommendations from our papers. Okay. Thank you. Lovely. Thank you. All right, tag runtime. Come on in. Right. So I have some updates in terms of projects and presentations. So the containers and runtime space. We have this project called bumblebee. And it provides ebpf in kind of like Docker. So kind of like a runtime. So they're going to have a presentation on June 16. And in terms of workloads, series of projects are present are presenting and have presented. One function is one of them. This provides end to end server less. They had a presentation on April 7. Another couple of projects that are sort of bundled together term buckle and pallet. They're from the folks in the open source community as sienna and they basically provide constraints to workloads on Kubernetes. So ability to constrain pods based on CPU memory and even networking. So they presented on May 5. Multi is another project that allows users to provision infrastructure to multiple cloud environments. Using a common language. So they use terraform underneath in third language is very similar to terraform. They didn't have a presentation in our last meeting this week. Sorry, last week. So if Ray and cube Ray two projects that go together Ray is distributed computing framework and cube Ray is it's Kubernetes operator, and they will have a presentation on July 7. So in terms of activities in the tag. Our batch system initiative working group continues to meet twice a month, and they're continuing they're continuing to iron out the details for their charter. We also keep calling you we had that tag runtime session. That's a good attendance. And finally, the Kubernetes IOT working group is working on migrating to the CNCF because they want to expand their scope so they're not necessarily want to focus on Kubernetes so they're want to expand the CNCF umbrella so that's in progress. And yeah and then I think the other aspect is done, you know what we were talking about so I like to go ahead and review my co chair term so I'll be doing that in the next few days. That's all for the updates. Any questions. I think that's probably the right for path forward as far as being able to keep continuity with tags and then also we need to be able to have a little bit more. Yeah, like mentoring groups, lots of conversation about that so thank you. Thank you. Any other questions anything else that people wanted to be able to bring up around tag runtime. All right. Observability come on in. Hello everybody. Happy post coupon. So, briefly recap the last couple of meetings we had, you know, the back in mid April, in our second Tuesday meeting we talked briefly about the landscape graph project, which is still nascent and could be useful to all tags really, as well as, you know, framing out what a sandbox tag annual review not not a formal review but just building a calendar of, you know, when when when folks are when different projects have entered different phases, starting starting with the sandbox and just providing some visibility and ability for folks to find each other within the domain. So, on the 16th at coup con. There was an in person meeting. Richie are you on the call. I think he's on vacation. I wasn't in attendance in Spain. However, there's a bunch of notes that are linked. There was no recording from that but it was well attended with a lot of lively discussion. I understand was spent on the observe k8s project which has been moving along in the recent months, and now has a fully working observe k8s demo. That's that Michael Hasenblas and Henry cracks, and some others have contributed to, and there's a link there for details. Obviously, our 17th may was canceled and our meeting today which immediately follows this meeting. The top of the agenda is well a recap of from Bartek of the meeting from coup con in Spain. But the big ticket item, if you will is adding profiling as a signal to open telemetry and provided some links there as well. There was a kickoff meeting that was very well attended last Friday with on the order of dozens of profiler developers kind of tuning in and contributing and there's an active discussion there that's healthy so we're going to devote some time to that. In today's meeting. As we briefly discussed before, we are looking for more tech leads and and or coaches to nominate and and I think sourcing the funnel if you will for us has been something of a challenge. And we'll follow up with some of the things we talked about today, happily. We are also looking at building out the schedule for the summer of project presentations and or webinars. So please do reach out if you have suggestions or or feel free to join us in the slack channel with any any proposals or suggestions. That's it. Are there any questions. All right, looks like no direct questions, not seeing anything in chat. Give it a moment. All right. Thank you Matt tag network you're up. Right. A couple of things since we last met I think I'm. We had a presentation from Iraqi mesh, whom I believe they've submitted their sandbox proposal. We have a proposal from Istio for incubation. Dave is helping organize diligence and hopefully they will get them scheduled to present as well. The most active working group within tag network is the service mesh working group, a couple of updates. Last time we met, which was just this last week. One of the participants from from Cisco was well asking an old question about details of deployment models and things around practices and those questions really fell into. Or that they were in context of the service mesh performance dashboard. Coming out of the service mesh performance project. And what test should the questions are like what test should be run what scenarios are typical what's what a good representative workloads and those types of questions. The CNCF has recently done, we're doing a survey, a service mesh centric survey not too long ago and that that survey tends to focus on level of adoption and where you can kind of derive most popular service mesh and that kind of a thing. There's a, there's a double click on that would be helpful to, hopefully to everybody about more specific more technical specifics about the way that these service meshes are deployed. Best practices around their use things that we useful input into the service mesh performance dashboard and so there was just a survey, a draft survey being or survey being drafted that the tag would like to work with the TOC or the CNCF staff on potentially getting out another survey to augment it to get in there. Part of the service mesh performance project at this service service mesh con you in coordination with a couple of the maintaining organizations of service mesh performance is a new formula being published called mesh mark. And I'll, I'll forgo a description of it, but, but that was an update from from that project since last we spoke so just a new index new way of measuring and characterizing the value of your cloud native infrastructure. I think it LFX and GSOC think they kicked off. So there's a number of the projects within within the tag that are participating. Lee, I was just curious, what kind of work do the, you know, projects, the GSOC and LFX projects. Folks end up doing. Yeah, that's a great question. So there's being familiar with a few of these, the one of the GSOC interns is working directly on that service mesh performance dashboard. And they just presented this last Thursday there, their update. So if you go to the dashboard you can tell it's work in progress. Because that's a good example. In the past, another had worked on like the SMI can SMI conformance dashboard and kind of the tooling around performing that performance. Another one is there's a, well, there's a, a play dot misery.io there's a the hope for a cloud native playground in which people can go and in context of misery and that project they can learn. They can deploy any number of measures and kind of walk through learning labs on understanding the capabilities of this cloud native infrastructure. And so that's another example of work that LFX sounds good thanks a lot. Yeah. Any other questions. All right, thank you Lee. Moving on we've got tech contributor strategy. Howdy. One, unsurprisingly shoemaker's children like, like many other tags. We are working on our contributor pipeline. The, and as a result, this last coupon was the culmination of an awareness campaign. I engineered and spearheaded by Catherine Paganini. This included multiple sessions including a keynote maintainer circle, maintainer session governance session and interviews. This already generated some extra interest in the tag. Of course, a big part of the goal is awareness campaign was to make the projects aware that there are resources and help available. And we've heard from some projects since then. The for recent activity around coupon. We're redoing how we document the templates. And the first one of those is the contributing template to make the documentation clearer. And all of the templates are going to be redocumented this way. I sent an email to the TOC mailing list today, requesting comment on a mentoring working group, this mentoring working group was the request of CNCF staff and contractors who are already supervising mentoring across the CNCF as well as planning new programs and they need sort of an official place within the CNCF hierarchy for that to live and tag contributor strategy was the obvious place. So please comment on that and then we'll take a vote after we're done commenting. As always, please encourage projects to reach out to our tag when you provide feedback and due diligence. This member recently did that for the flux project and they came to us asking for advice on writing new governance, which I think worked out for everybody. So again, when you find that projects have problems recruiting contributors, forming governance, having clear and transparent processes, etc. Please refer them to us for assistance in making that happen. Thanks. Any questions. Thanks, Josh. Especially thanks for the flux. I think we were, we unblocked it this morning and we actually had Matt for in a, you know, step up as a sponsor to so thank you. That it's what we're it's what we're here for right the whole idea is to move the projects along because most of them get stuck simply because they don't know how to proceed. No, this is great. Thank you. Questions. Yeah, go ahead. Yeah, that said, tag contributed strategy of course is looking for more people to be involved. Part of the idea of adding new working groups is to expand the number of activities that people might be interested in participating in. And among other things I have overstayed my two years as chair. So, I am looking for a replacement chair. Seems to be a theme of this particular call. So, thank you. I'm dropping towards app delivery. Come on in. Okay, I will. Yeah, I'll give an update. Thank you. Thank you. Yeah, welcome back from cubicle everyone. So, like, so we don't have anything last week because of the cubicle. No, sorry, like, like two weeks before. I will give an update on the just like what's happening in last month that the projects we reviewed and the work we have done, like, first of all, for the project, like a couple of projects that presented in our tag and also we sponsor one of them into to help them move into incubation, which is captain. It's in public voting period. So please roll your opinions. And other than that, we also have open feature and open cruise. Trying to get into CNN CF open cruise is trying to move to incubation and open feature is also being donated to as a sandbox project. And we also have missed the IO, just getting presented as well. They want it. So let me give a brief introduction what each project does like captain is a, like, CICD tooling or focus on security and and like, yeah, the SLO thing and open feature is a feature flag that that's an open standard that that that defy an API for products like launch darkly and those kinds of things and open cruise is is a Kubernetes workload workloads like like just like deployment but more advanced. And Mr. IO is very much like cross paint but with its own API. So if you're interested, you can join our meeting and also like discuss them with us as well. And other than that, like on the working group side, we have three updates. So first of all, we, we have the cooperative delivery working group have finished the ever had finished the evergreen charter in this in the slide stock. So you need to get in, get the slides and and put get the and collect the link but definitely those things are available in our meeting meeting like notes as well. So, so you can definitely find them in there as well. So, and other than that, we also have our planning a operator white paper version two previously we have published version one operator white paper. So like so much things have been, have been changing. Since then, like for example, there are new chance like multi cluster and also ability and get off those kind of thing, be in added to operators so we are trying to add those things and and and just refresh what operator does. And that's why we have stopped drafting a new dog for that. And we are also, and, and we're also like planning a multi tendency white paper. We are gathering people to discuss what what does monetizing means and what what problems it solves, because it's so important like like there are so many people just providing Kubernetes cluster on top of one apparent Kubernetes cluster. This is a very common pattern. We want to collect, we want to build collective intelligence, and, and just share our knowledge on that and build best practices. And for the upcoming meetings, we also have we have some projects going to present as well one is one of them is rule pack. It's a generic installable Kubernetes apps. And another thing is can K and funk. It's, it's something that uses bill packs and K native to automatically like like run your code in containers. So that's all the updates. Any questions. Okay. Oh, this is great. Thank you. Cool. Thank you to thank you at delivery. All right, coming in fine on time. This moves. Come on. No, too fast. We have our projects to be able to review and not sure why it's holding on us but I kind of want to be able to do a rundown here of things that are currently in voting, which we can see, but I know that we have a lot of projects currently sitting out there so I'm going to pass towards. We'll start at the top cloud custodian. I've got Ricardo on the line. That's me. Yeah, so custodian is actually ready so send the comment internally and then I think we are very close to here. And I can just serve manager as well. Sorry, can I break the order. No, that's fine. That's fine. There's not really an order it's just like that there is a list please go through the list. So for certain manager, we are very advanced in the due diligence and I'm now a user interview. So I think both will have a lot of work. Awesome. Thank you. I'm going to Dave, who is not on the calls that won't work. We will have to hold for being able to get the artifact hub updates in here. So, Kate cloak. Aaron, if you're with us. Hey, sorry, you were finding mute. Trying to find the mute button amongst all of the different tabs and windows. Yeah, I don't have an update on this yet I hope to by the end of the week. All right, that is completely fine. Yeah, and the rest are basically like Dave or in voting. So, unless any of the project's graduation have updates here. I am waiting on one final adopter interview for spiffy inspire the due diligence document is near complete just waiting on the results of that interview and be able to send it for review. Lovely. And I know there is one missing here flux got a sponsor this morning, simply because like that happened before like slides closed at the end of the day yesterday so now we have a new one. So thank you Matt. All right, dims any other items business that we didn't cover that we needed to. Yes. So, if you look at the CNCF to see mailing list you would have seen an announcement for or a request for people to engage in a code of conduct working group. So, please read that email. The idea here is, you know, currently the code of conduct process is run by the CNCF staff. So it would be really good to have a community oriented set of folks that are doing this in conjunction with staff. You know, very similar to how the Kubernetes code of conduct works. You know, similar to that where the Kubernetes code of conduct is taking reports and doing stuff and, you know, getting back with, you know, how to handle certain situations and and whatnot. So I think that we want to do something here in the CNCF level also going through some of the, you know, why we don't yet have one kind of discussions. We realize that, you know, it would be a good idea to actually have one of these, you know, at the CNCF Tuesday level so we can support our communities better. Than how we are doing today. So if you're interested in this work, please join up. You know, send an email to Taylor, you know, the steps are detailed in the email. But I'm just voicing here that there is a effort in progress and we had a couple of discussions during cube con as well. And if anybody is interested, we can update you on what has happened so far and where we are headed and things like that to on a separate call. Or, you know, we can do one on one or in a group setting as well. So if you're interested in this topic, please step up and, you know, help any questions here. That was easy. So essentially, this is a collaboration between CNCF GB and the CNCF to see because both of us have to sign off on how this is going to work. And this is the first time we are trying to do this in public. Usually, it doesn't happen. So that is a very good sign of, you know, how we are trying to do this. That's all I had. Thank you. I would like one plug for next to see meeting is going to be annual reviews. So any projects out there that have gotten things around getting your annual review in please do it. If you intend to do it this time. Thank you. So I have a question so what is the cadence of the meetings for this working group or I guess it hasn't been finalized yet right. The green final is yet the first step is to identify the people who will be working on this. And then, you know, hopefully we'll follow a community process similar to what we do elsewhere where people will, you know, swarm on a doodle or something like that to figure out what times will work and what cadence will work, you know, they can decide on the in their first meeting. So the real idea is to get a couple of chairs and the people who are going to do the work together and like unleash them to actually go to the things that they need to do in a community fashion. Sounds good. Thanks. Okay, thank you. Good question, we'd love to have an answer for it. We will. Yes. Yeah, I did have a question that was coming from the community around this working group for sustainability or green I mean I know there's a working group but there's kind of a push to be a little more formal about that and create a tag. What is our appetite for that since it's still pretty early stage, it seems to be getting momentum from every single vertical in the industry so is it something we want to look at doing the sustainability right. Yep. Okay, so the typical question I asked here is like not being attacked, is it affecting their day to day work right now. If not, you know, I would say, you know, get some, some initial wins on a well, and then come up with things that you can't do right now because you're a working group versus attack and that was kind of my feedback as well I just wanted to see what the rest of the TLC and community kind of things and Bob obviously you agree I see your comment. Emily, did you have some dad there. Yeah, when we had the initial discussion with them it was largely around scope because environmental sustainability is such a broad area that we wanted to have something a little bit more concrete and what the potential deliverables of the working group would look like and then based off of the determination of those deliverables, make a decision as to whether or not it's more suitable as a tag. So I agree and it's kind of one of those things like security I think you can agree where it's in every little part Emily it's not able to operate in a silo and I think that's why they were looking at the formalization but I think it's completely fair to say, you know, as many of these started from a white paper framing, what does that mean the size and the scope and moving it more into, you know, a formal tag of executing and interacting with these different ones so I'm fine taking that feedback back to the community. Okay, great. Thank you all. Anything else we needed to cover today. Not for me. Thank you. Then I will just send everyone back into their day. It's good to see all of you. See you for annual reviews next time. Bye.