 Ah, we're back, we're live, it's the four o'clock rock, a few minutes after four, and this is our flagship energy show, Hawaii, the state of clean energy we've been doing for, gee, three, four years now, and it really is wonderful. And we have, of course, our negawatt moment with Lisa Harmon from Hawaii Energy, and she's here to make a special report on what kind of new things they got going. They always have something new. It's like an endless cornucopia. We do. Yeah. We have a lot of ideas over there. Yeah. You knew two o'clock in the morning. What do you got now, Lisa? Well, Jay, I want to let you know that Hawaii Energy, in addition to offering incentive funding for people that purchase energy efficient equipment, of course, that's our main objective, but we also offer technical trainings to help the workforce of Hawaii increase their skill level. And we are offering a building operator certification. It's September 15th through December 15th is when it's going to be offered. So it's offered in conjunction with the Northwest Energy Efficiency Council, and it's delivered in Hawaii by the University of Hawaii Minoa Outreach College. It's classes. Yes. It's a course. It's a series of classes, so it's an eight-week series of courses, and it focuses on all different types of things, HVAC, lighting, controls, things that a building operator should know and increase their knowledge of to become more energy efficient in how they run the building. So I get three possible constituencies come to mind. One is the building owner. He should know this because there's a lot of money involved, and his ROI is going to depend on how efficient he is being on his building. Number two is the building manager. This is going to be primarily his job, and he needs to understand the engineering of his building. And the third, of course, is the engineer himself. The building operator. Who's on the firing line right up there working the machinery and tuning everything, making sure that whatever best practices are in place, he's going to implement those practices. Yes. It's a textile type of course, and it's aimed and directed at those building operators and engineers, the people that are actually running the facilities, so they can learn better skills in, like you said, running the equipment and making the building more energy efficient. You know, it's a moving target, this kind of thing. In other words, you know, on the mainland, you know, they talk about it a lot. They do a lot of this, and building owners association, NIOP also, all those real state organizations that are involved in managing, you know, big properties. Right. We don't necessarily get that here. We've got to get it here, and we've got to be just as good as they are on the mainland. We've got to be trained. Education is everything. It's so easy to sluff off and do what we did before instead of what they do now. That's right. Well, and that's why we're offering this training. So it's a great subsidy as well. This is a $1,600 course, and Hawaii Energy is subsidizing $1,400 of the cost of that. So the copay for the participant is only $200. Wow. Yeah. Wow. This would be really attractive. I have a feeling I'm going to fill up the room on this one. We are. It's going to fill up quickly. So we need all the applications by August 18th because registration closes on August 26th. So anybody that's interested, if they could go to outreach.hawaii.edu backslash boc and they can find all the information. Very good. Very good program. It's one of those two o'clock. I know you guys. That's when we got the idea at two o'clock in the morning. Good. But I mean, not only is it good for you, it's good for outreach college, and it's certainly good for the building owners, managers, and engineers in our community who really have to, you know, be at the front end. I mean, we have a lot of energy efficiency in other parts of the community, but we need it in big buildings, commercial buildings, office buildings, retail, big retail, and that's what you're going to reach. And I think there will be a measurable result here when they get to know the best practices you're bringing from them. Exactly. Exactly. And there are a lot of courses that cover, again, a variety of topics, be it building controls or their HVAC system, their pumps and their motors, and think of all the office buildings that are here, the AOAO condominium properties. Some of those are quite large. A lot of that. That's true. They're at 18,000 condominiums in the state of Hawaii and they're all, you know, potentially your clientele on this program. That's right. You're going to offer it more than once? Probably again after January in the next calendar year, but we just started our new program year on July 1st. So this is one of our first kickoff training events. It's a winter. It's happening. Yeah, it's a winter. We're very excited. Lisa Harmon, Hawaii Energy, doing fabulous things. Thank you so much. Hey, thank you. Nice to see you too. Oh, come back soon. Come back next week. Okay. We'll do. Aloha, everyone. I'm Maria Mera and I'm here to invite you to my bilingual show, Viva Hawaii, every other Monday at 3 p.m. We are here to show you news, issues, and events local and around the world. Join me. Hey, everybody. My name is David Chang, and I am a new host for the show, The Art of Thinking Smart. I'm really excited to be able to share with you how to get the smart edge in life. We're going to have awesome guests in the military, business, political, nonprofit world. So no matter what background you're from, we have something for you. Please join us every other Thursday at 10 a.m. at thinktechhawaii.com or on the art of thinkingsmart.com. I look forward to seeing you. Aloha. I'm Kawi Lucas, host of Hawaii is my mainland here on thinktechhawaii every Friday afternoon at 3 p.m. Start your powhuna weekend off with the show where I talk to people about issues pertinent to Hawaii. You can see my previous shows at my blog, kawaiilukas.com, and also on thinktech's show. Sorry. Aloha. Howard Wigg. I am the proud host of Code Green, thinktechhawaii. I appear every other Monday at 3 in the afternoon. Do not tune in in the morning. My topic is energy efficiency. It sounds dry as heck, but it's not. We're paying $5 billion a year for imported oil. My job is to shave that, shave that, shave that down in homes and buildings while delivering better comfort, better light, better air conditioning, better everything. So if you're interested in your future, you'd better tune in to me 3 o'clock every other Monday, Code Green, Aloha, and thank you very much. You're watching thinktechhawaii, meeting people we may have not otherwise met, helping us understand and appreciate the good things about Hawaii. Great content for Hawaii from thinktech. Hey, you stand-in-the-energy man here. I know you're bored this summer. You're just sitting at home, figuring out what to do, go to the beach, spend some time with thinktechhawaii, spend the time thinking about how you can contribute to Hawaii and make it a better place to live, and start watching some of the programs on thinktech, including stand-in-the-energy man. Well, you'll learn all about everything energy, especially hydrogen and transportation. So we'll see you every Friday at 12 o'clock noon, stand-in-the-energy man here in thinktech, Hawaii, Aloha. Aloha, everybody. My name is Mark Shklav. I'd like you to join me for my program, Law Across the Sea, on thinktechhawaii.com. Aloha. Aloha. I'm Chantel Seville, host of the Savvy Chick Show on thinktech, Hawaii, and I'm going on tour. I'm taking you around the world. We're going to Canada. And then we're going to, well, we're in America. Then we're going to San Francisco. So keep staying tuned. 11 AM every Wednesday on the Savvy Chick Show. We'll see you next time. Bingo, we're back. I told you we were coming back, and we came back. But something's different. What's different? Well, this is a private check is here. And that's the Hawaii Procurement Institute. And guess what? Next to her are my favorite people in the world. Oh, gosh. OK? Rachel James, not only from the Hawaii Procurement Institute, but also from Stan Osman's office, HCAT on Cook Street. OK, and a guy that I knew and loved back about, what, 15 years ago in his other life, his previous life as a representative from Maui, under the Lingle Administration, you're Republican, weren't you? Kiko Bukowski. Thanks. Thank you all for coming down. Lovely to have you here together. Now, what are you going to talk about? We're going to talk about procurement. Government contracting is a hot topic, particularly in the energy sector. And I'm hoping that Kiko can share with us some lessons learned and information from the construction sector. He served on the state procurement task force, and that's something we watch closely and have a few issues to talk about there. And Rachel has been serving as an extern with the Hawaii Procurement Institute. So I'm hoping she can help us illuminate some issues as well. OK. Yeah, extern is different than an intern. Indeed. Yeah, extern, you're outside, but you come in an intern, you're inside. But maybe you go out, you're not sure. Oh, no, externs get credit. Interns just get credit. Oh. There's never more to come than experience. Much more realistic, much more practical, OK. Kiko, so I really like the idea of bringing knowledge and best practices in from the community, business community, into government and into certainly energy, which is a sort of a community of everyone, government and everyone. So what would you offer from your advantage on how energy can better use the magic of procurement? Well, I think in the last legislative session, there were some bills that were being considered. One, I think what might be interesting through the energy sector is the special innovative procurement. I know that was an item of discussion. Private public parking. Is that an Archie moron? Innovative procurement. How do you make procurement innovative? It was trying to think a little bit out of the box more towards your public-private partnerships, P3s, which I think energy projects might fit more in. So those were items of discussion in the last session. Mm-hmm, OK. I think one of the goals and why we wanted the Procurement Institute wanted to come and talk energy with you is that we want to foster innovation. We want to use the tools that are already in the existing procurement code. But we support some of the initiatives that Sarah Allen at the State Procurement Office has made to educate procurement officers and the private sector about the tools already in the procurement code. And I think one of the things that Kika worked on just as a former legislator and on the procurement task force is trying to get that engagement with the community and get some good conversations around what changing the procurement code would do or should we keep it the same? Yeah, OK. That's a question. You know, I mean, there are people out there in the community. It's not going to surprise you too much. You don't like the procurement code. Or there are people who think it works better on the county level than it does on the state level or on the federal level. One reason why they think it doesn't work well is there are a number of exemptions in it. And so sometimes when you see more procurements going under the exemptions than in the actual code, you kind of like wonder what's going on. And I think Rachel works in a program that actually manages some of the exempt procurements very well. So I think there are arguments on both sides. Rachel, is it fair? Is it fair? I think particularly in a time when technology is advancing faster than legislation can keep up, exemptions definitely serve a purpose. But I can see how some would feel that that just throws the code right out the window. So I put this to all three of you. Do we need to change the procurement code? I think you said no last week. I think my overall outlook in the Hawaii Procurement Institute is the procurement code itself has a lot of opportunity and vehicles for government contracting officers to use. And it's not necessary to be constantly changing it. Can it be tweaked here and there? I'm sure there are bills that we might see in the future that we could support. You know the problem with Pandora's box. Right. You tweak here and boop, the whole thing gets tweaked. So I think businesses need certainty and we definitely want to see clarity and certainty. And I think for construction contracts, that's one of the primary goals. I think the Special Innovative Procurement Initiative that was discussed in the last session was an attempt to try to be a little bit more flexible to address some of the projects that are a little outside the box, but yet kind of keep it within the procurement process. And I would tend to agree with Melissa as far as the procurement code, having a lot of options out there, not necessarily all of them used. I think we're starting to see a little bit more of some of the processes used. I think we're starting to see multiple, the two-step process being used by the DOE in response to some of the bids coming in for the heat abatement, which drew some attention recently. So, but all in all, I think the procurement process is good. I think the task force was a tremendous opportunity for various stakeholders to come to the table, although that particular task force was pretty much geared towards construction. I think it's something that should be continued. I believe it's sunset, June 30th of this year was a sunset. What does that mean? It dissolved. So we were brought together for a specific purpose and we actually, it was extended to discuss past performance, but we never quite got off the ground. What strikes me though is, I'm just being Mr. John Q. Public here, that the procurement code causes bureaucracy and slow down on the one side. The other side is that there's rules and whatnot and you have to go down the path and it's hard and some people don't feel it's fair. And maybe it's because they don't know it very well. And at the end of the day, on construction projects and on energy especially, at least as far as this show is concerned, we have to move quickly. We have to move definitively. We have to move in a fair manner. Everybody gets a shot at it and we have to avoid controversy, okay? What do we need to do to achieve those things? Well, I kind of smiled when you said that it's slow and difficult and all of that because the minute that we get a bad procurement. That's what it's all about here on Think Tank. Go ahead. Okay, thank you for the permission. I think that the procurement code is set up to ensure that we have fairness, transparency and it can be much more quick if we do it right. And so I think a lot of training, having good procurement so that we're not, that's part of training, isn't it? No, actually, I think the procurement task force was set up to address prompt payment initially. So that's another aspect. And I think a key thing we haven't talked about yet is this, what is procurement? Is it just the putting out of an RFP and awarding it? No, I think the Hawaii Procurement Institute, we look at procurement and so does the State Procurement Office as the entire spectrum from coming up with an idea, the budget, all the way to completing the project. So the entire management of the project and so. The engagement with the government, that's the whole thing from beginning to end. We need clarity, transparency, quickness, speed, innovation, all of that, training, how to do all of this. People have to be up close on this, they have to talk to each other about it, they have to learn the best ways. And then, you know, they won't be surprised and they'll have a better experience and they won't go in bad mouth to procurement code so much. I wouldn't say bad mouth, but you know, talk stink about the procurement code. Get projects done and get them done. Get projects done. So how do we train all the people who need to be trained? Rachel? Well, that's what Hawaii Procurement Institute does. So that is one answer. But I mean, definitely the procurement office is doing that and there are other organizations, private sector and public sector that are doing that. But getting back to the task force that Kika was on, you know, picking these sections of the array of the whole procurement process and trying to address any problems with it, that's an important solution. Can we talk about the problem of getting paid? Yeah, so. That's a problem. I've heard that many times where you know, you have a contract with the state and you could whistle. I think what Melissa's referring to, I think there was a bill in 2011 that I think set up a prompt payment task force. And that wasn't your bill? No, it wasn't necessarily. I think if I. You weren't there. That was. You were not. I was not there. I wanna be clear about this. Oh yeah, he was out of the legislature by then. So then there was subsequent to the prompt payment task force, which ended up focusing primarily on human services payments, which is a different procurement code. Yeah. We could have a topic for another day. I'm gonna talk about that today. Right. But you do cover that in the procurement institute, right? Absolutely, yes. Okay, well we're gonna shave this down to energy today. Then Kika's task force took off. And then it morphed into this past performance task force. So we've had many conversations. I think the main overriding goal was to try to understand and to get everybody from various areas that touch procurements affected by procurement from the business sector, from the agencies, various agencies. What we've done actually with our procurement is we've actually decentralized it. So each agency actually has their own chief procurement officer. There's been some discussion to maybe try to consolidate that and bring it back. I've heard that. Actually it'll show earlier today that there's different practices and different agencies. And as a result, you have to be skilled in how each one operates. And I don't think it would be better if they were running on the same uniform basis. I don't know. I mean, I don't think that's intentional. But one of the things that came out of the task force is that it was identified that there are some inconsistencies on how one agency might interpret the same procurement. How do you fix that? Get together and talk and try to come up with a consistent. Need a bill? Possibly consult. I don't think you need a bill. I think it's just talking story, keeping such task force open. So you have that collaboration and getting everybody on the same page. And I think that's what the state procurement officer, office is trying to. They're on board with it. They're attempting to do it. Because they're the other side of this discussion. I mean, you guys are the, what do you call it? Where the rubber hits the road? Yeah. You see both sides. You're kind of in the middle of it again. Between the people bidding and the people who take the bids. Take the bids. But you got to have everybody on board in order to make an improvement. Absolutely. And I think finding ways to get on the same page or understand what the procurement says and what can be allowed. So I know Rachel and I were recently at a program where we talked about cost and pricing and what is allowed. What can be charged on a change order? How much flexibility the government contracting officers have and that's really important to understand to make sure that. So Rachel, you know, you've been listening to these guys and our colleague we hear, that's a law firm kind of word. It means conversation. So how much of what Melissa has said and Kika has said, do you agree with? I agree with much of it. I couldn't point to something. No, I mean, I wouldn't point to anything that I disagree with. But I think in a very basic way, just in the public engagement with government programs and processes is a space where there can be a great deal of education. I mean, there's great opportunity for people to learn more on both sides. And procurement is one of them because it touches so many different industries and agencies and companies. And I mean, even just departments throughout the state government. So there's definitely a great space of education and having conversations and task forces and having institutes that promote workshops and provide opportunities for contracting officers and contractors to have a conversation and to collaborate. I think that's important. So I feel like that's what both of you have been saying. One of the reasons why I thought it would be so great to include Rachel in this conversation is she does wear another hat. And you mentioned it earlier on her other work with HCAT. And I think there's a lot of opportunities to intersect and to bring the energy. Certainly at the intersection of energy and procurement. So what does HCAT do? Just take one organization. It's part of HTDC, which is a D-bed attached agency to D-bed. Where does procurement fit in its world? So it's interesting. HCAT has actually exempted. Well, HTDC has many exemptions. And so much of our work is covered under the exemption that HTDC has, primarily because it's a high-tech development corporation. And so we're meant to move quickly. And oftentimes, because of the work that we do as research and development, sometimes you don't necessarily have to get it right at the end. It's going through a process and understanding something that you didn't recognize in the beginning of the process. And that's something that I think the procurement code can address. And there are elements within the existing code that can address that. But I mean, it's buried. And to have someone knowledgeable about that, I don't know that they're everywhere. So if we can broaden that. You know, the point of curiosity, how many pages long is the procurement code? That's a good question. We'll bring you the book. We'll bring you the code section. You need a truck. No, absolutely not. It's a section of the Hawaii Revised Statutes. It's not a volume. Yeah, I wanted to kind of back up a little bit. There's a couple of school of thoughts. There's a school of thought that says, well, they want a little bit more expedient, a little bit more streamlined, more flexible, ability to move quickly. And then there's the other school of thought that says, well, if we're too loose, then it might allow for some improprieties, some unfair treatment, some subjectivity. And what we're really talking about here is the use of public taxpayer dollars. And we have to make sure that those taxpayer dollars are used in the most efficient, effective, fair, objective manner possible. So I guess I come from the construction industry as far as representation on the task force. And there's some concern there that we don't necessarily want to throw out the process in exchange for expediency. Because sometimes you have to find a balance. If you exempt too much from the procurement process, then you may open it up for improprieties and unfair use of taxpayer dollars. And we've seen some of that abuse of the procurement code. That's why I picked it. And Rachel and I were talking earlier about less is more in terms of exemptions. And even for there are exemptions in the code where certain agencies still have to follow a procurement code-like process, even if they are exempt. So you still want transparency, accountability, and competition. And my understanding is the special innovative procurement process that was being discussed in last session was an attempt to provide that flexibility and the ability to move a little quicker. But still keep it within the confines of a process. Yeah. I want to digress on the point quicker for a minute. I've been studying bureaucracy and slowness in state government and city government that matter. And I've come to a conclusion that we could move faster. This is not going to surprise you. But how can we move faster? Well, I think if we train them and we say, look, you're in a mission-critical place. And if you let that application document permission languish in your in-basket for a month, you're doing everyone a disservice. You can't do that. You have to have alacrity in the way you deal with a paper that crosses your desk. It's not excusable that you let it sit there for a month or two or three or four. What do you think about that? It's OK. You can speak Canada. Nobody's listening. Honestly, one thing I think is that the government contracting officers, we need to recognize their role as acquisition professionals. We need to recognize the time, the skill, the investment in learning. Is the month acceptable? No. There's a lot of training that goes involved. And they are constantly upgrading their skills. And I'm very encouraged by what's happening at the State Procurement Office in terms of training the professionals who are there. They got to be trained, too. Absolutely. So you guys can form task forces. And you can do like what Hawaii Energy told us they were doing. They get together with the Outreach College Engineering. And they have a three or four month program where you can come in for cheap and get a very detailed discussion of exactly building engineering issues in that case. But you can do the same thing with procurement. But I don't think it's somebody sitting on a piece of paper or it's at the bottom of their stack. I think one of the things people point to in terms of slow is the protest process. And I know the protest process is there for a reason to ensure that the procurements are done correctly and that the awards are made properly, that the request for proposals are written well. I think we have to treat protests very carefully. Because after all, this is Hawaii and the state of protest. I don't think so. I think that the state of protest. So it's not the state of protest. You're letting me contradict you today and I'm taking every opportunity to do so. I want you to do that, Mother. I think that there's a perception that maybe we shouldn't protest or that we might have a black mark against us if we do protest. And that's not or just delay. But the protest process is part of the procurement code. And so I don't think we need to be afraid of that. So the thing is, if I'm a contractor and I protest, so I'm slowing the other guy down now for a while. Next time around, he's going to slow me down. So the result is we all slow each other down. Hopefully the next time around, we won't have the basis. I think that contractors should go into this fully educated about the implications of a protest. It's not just their silo. It's the whole system is being affected by what they do. I think protest is a big issue with construction and procurement. And there's discussions every session about how to address some of the more, the issues that wouldn't necessarily affect the bid. But that could be maybe allowed to be corrected either prior to bid award or that type of thing. Okay, Kika, we're about out of time. But I want to offer you the opportunity to take that camera over there, number one, and tell them all the ways in which you think I am wrong about all this. No, I think as I mentioned earlier, I think it's really important to continue the discussion with organizations like the Hawaii Procurement Institute and engaging not just the state agencies but the stakeholders as well, the contractors, the organizations that actually go through the procurement process. I think it's really important. And I know that the state procurement offices is attempting to do that right now. So I'm pretty optimistic. Thank you, Kika, Kika Bacowski. Rachel James, could you tell the people all the ways in which you think I am wrong? I actually don't think that you're wrong, Jay. But you're welcome. We get along good. Thanks for having me out. No, I think education is important. And for people to make informed decisions, they need to have the information. And so if we can facilitate more opportunities for people to have that information, I think that's a positive thing. And the State Procurement Office and HPI and people like Kika involved in tax sources, we're doing those things. So let's look it up. Okay, Melissa. I've already told you where I think you're wrong, but I have a different question for you. How much of what Rachel and Kika have said, do you agree with? Everything they said. I knew you'd say that. But I did want to say one last thing, and that's HPI is funding some internships. And so we're going to get some government contracting interns placed with government contracting offices. Excellent idea. There are so many possibilities. This is a good time. You guys are in the right place doing the right thing in the right way at the right time. Who said that? Thank you, everybody. Kika, Rachel, Melissa, thanks for coming out. Thanks to you. Thank you very much. Bye-bye.