 Thank you for joining us for this session on shaping a just plastics economy at the World Economic Forum Sustainable Development Impact Summit. I'm Catherine Chaney. I'm a senior reporter at DevEx, and I'm delighted to be moderating this conversation. The first half of this session will be on the record, recorded and publicly available afterwards. And the second half of this conversation will be held under the Chatham House rule. So now to set the stage a little bit in terms of the problem we're discussing and hopefully the way forward. So we're all familiar with the problem of plastic pollution, but today we'll explore how it affects people from around the world in different ways. In a moment, I'll introduce some of our expert panelists, but first I'd love to get a sense of what each of you think about the topic we're tackling today. So I'd like to introduce our first slide, Opal, which you'll see pop up in the chat. And I encourage you to click and answer just so we get a read of the room here. We hear a lot in the news about how certain marginalized groups such as those living in poverty, migrants and refugees, indigenous peoples and women are disproportionately affected by plastics pollution. But we hear less about their participation in solutions to such pollution. So the question posed in Slido here is in which of the following segments of the value chain do traditionally marginalized groups play a critical role in the transition to a circular plastics economy? Product design, production, use and consumption, collection, or maybe you're not sure. And multiple selections are possible. So as we see those responses come in, I just want to talk a little bit more about how to use Slido. That's going to be where you post questions if you'd like to pose any questions to our panelists. And we also encourage you to post any comments in the chat for those joining us here live. Just to talk a little bit more about what we'll be discussing today, we all know that this current take, make, waste, linear approach to plastic production and consumption isn't working anymore. And won't work moving forward. There are high costs for people and our planet. And the Ellen MacArthur Foundation, which has been a real leader in this space, provides a really useful definition of a new plastics economy, one in which plastic never becomes waste or pollution. And three actions are required here. First, eliminate all problematic and unnecessary plastic items. Second, innovate to ensure that the plastics we do need are reusable, recyclable, or compostable. And third, circulate all the plastic items we use to keep them in the economy and out of the environment. The plastics value chain can be thought of to include both upstream elements, like product design and production, and downstream aspects like use, reuse, collection, and recycling. And in that poll, we'll get a sense of where you see inclusion being most critical, perhaps in one part of the value chain or across the value chain. And we'll dive into that topic a little further in just a moment. As I mentioned earlier, the plastics economy, as it is today, has a disproportionate impact on people from traditionally marginalized communities. I want to note something that I found really useful in understanding these impacts from a United Nations Environment Program report on the environmental justice impacts of marine litter and plastic pollution. And it notes that women are more likely to be exposed to toxins from the use of plastic, which is predominant in domestic and feminine products. Improperly disposed of plastic ends up in marine ecosystems, where it threatens the livelihood of those who rely on fishing to survive, and threatens the health of those who consume it by mistake in their seafood. And in addition, people who make a living waste picking are disproportionately exposed to its toxins. So those are just a few examples to really ground us in what this means for people every day and how they can actually be part of the solution. That's what we'll be focusing on in our conversation. I want to note that this conversation is convened by the World Economic Forum's Global Plastic Action Partnership. So one of the things I find really exciting about this conversation is we're not just going to have this conversation and move on with our day. These insights will really be used, fed into the partnership to inform what they do moving forward. And this GPAP partnership basically breaks down inclusion across the plastic's value chain, thinking about regulators, policymakers, decision makers, market actors, so business owners, leaders, entrepreneurs, workers, both informal, informal, consumers, and community members. And when GPAP, for example, considers women workers in the plastics economy, that might include what does it look like for women workers, both in the formal and informal economy when it comes to their access, their power, their decision making, within existing structures, and how might that look in the future. So again, this session is part of GPAP's commitment to integrate diverse voices across the partnership. We have some of those voices formally included as panelists in this first half of the session. And then we want to hear all your voices in the second half of the session. So get ready for a really action-oriented conversation. Before we dive into our panel, and I'd love to take a look at that poll if we have our results here. Can we take a look? Did we get more responses coming in? I might return to this question later on, so let's see. I'm going to see if I can zoom in. All right, use in consumption and collection. So it looks like when you think about segments of the value chain or traditionally marginalized groups play a critical role, it's in use in consumption and collection, not so much these other stages. So we'll see if those perspectives change over the course of the conversation. But I want to go ahead and introduce the Honorable Jean Dark Mujewan Maria, who's Minister of Environment of Rwanda for some opening remarks. Honorable Minister. Thank you very much, Catherine. Distinguished guests, friends of the environment, greetings from Kigali Rwanda. It's a pleasure to be part of this important discussion and thanks to the World Economic Forum and the Global Plastic Action Partnership for convening today's event and for the chance to share Rwanda's efforts in addressing plastic pollution. Around the world, awareness is growing that plastic pollution is not only dangerous for marine life, but all living things, including the humanity. This is something environmentalists have to know for a long, have known for a long time. In 2003, almost two decades ago, Rwanda conducted a study on the impact of plastic bag pollution. It showed an overwhelming negative impact of plastic bags on both natural and man-made environments. The case for action was clear. The campaign to educate about the danger of plastic bags started in Rwanda in 2004 through our Masri Omoganda Community Works Initiative. Wonders in all corners of the country were courage to correct all the plastic waste they could find in the nature. A huge amount was collected and kept for recycling. Furthermore, I can share that his excellence, the present of the Republic of Rwanda, President Paul Kagame, used to go an extra mile. In addition of participating in such community works, he confessed that he randomly stopped on the road to correct such waste, plastic waste, while driving to or from his office. This event helped citizens as well as leaders to see the problem of plastic pollution with their own eyes. If the president can stop, why can't I? Decision makers began thinking about how to reduce plastic bags and a ministerial instruction was adopted to limit the use of or the manufacturer of plastic bags in Rwanda. Then, ladies and gentlemen, in 2008, the parliament passed a law banning plastic bags. 10 years later, we went further and revised the plastics law to ban all single-use plastics and improve the efficiency and effectiveness of plastic recycling in the country. Today, we have an extended producer responsibility system in the press whereby a private operator importing plastics must contribute to a fund to manage the waste produced from their products, which we call environmental ravie. Rwanda's efforts to beat plastic pollution would not have been possible without the daily work of sanitation workers. Every day, hundreds of cleaners walk tirelessly to keep our city-kigali clean. Rwanda's strict enforcement of the plastics ban has also created opportunities in our informal sector, whereby people correct plastics waste and send it to the recycling companies. So for our communities, no waste is wasted. Today, we have a robust plastic recycling industry as well as a new waste recycling sector that is positioning Rwanda as a regional hub for turning trash into treasure. The number of used waste startups in the plastic, the proposing give us confidence that we are on the right track. Recently, Rwanda and Peru joined forces to propose a global plastic treaty that will reduce plastics in our environment. Turbo-charge the cycle economy for plastics and improve the health and wellbeing of all life on earth. It is logical and practical next step in our efforts to address the dual climate and biodiversity crisis. It is only through this kind of action from the global community that we can transform our plastic-addicted economies to be cycle powerhouse that not only deliver socioeconomic prosperity, but also restore the natural world. The global plastic action partnership is playing a critical role to achieve this and Rwanda is proud to support this work. So we have to be the change we want to see in the world. Ladies and gentlemen, let us go to action. I thank you very much for your kind attention. Thank you, Honorable Minister. And I really appreciate that you emphasized the approach here, not just the actions you've taken, but how you've taken them and what lessons there might be for other countries looking to do the same. So thank you so much for your time and insight. I'd love to introduce our panelists now. Joining us from Brazil is Sonia Diaz, Waste Specialist for Women in Informal Employment, Globalizing and Organizing, which is a global network focused on empowering the working poor with a particular focus on women. We're also joined by Marcus Horher. He's the Director of Sustainability and Public Affairs at Borealis, which is a provider of innovative solutions in the fields of plastics, chemicals, and fertilizers. And finally, Joshua Amonsem. He's the Founder and Executive Director of Green Africa Youth Organization, which is a Ghana-based advocacy organization dedicated to environmental sustainability and community development. So I'd love to start with a question on why social inclusion is so critical when it comes to working toward a circular economy for plastics. Basically, why is the topic we're tackling today so critical and so urgent? And Sonia, maybe we can start with you. Thank you very much. This is such an important question. Yeah, I think we need to start by acknowledging that waste has been a resource for the urban poor for many centuries. It's how they have earned their livelihoods for many centuries, and it's still so today. So if we think about today's waste speakers, we have around one to two percent of the urban population working on waste speaking. And by waste speakers here, we can consider those that collect, sort and or process household, commercial and industrial waste, be it on the streets or in cooperatives, in recycling facilities or in open and controlled dams, which is actually part of this reality. Most of the waste speakers work in these places. So waste speakers have been contributing actually to curbing plastic pollution in our oceans and without proper recognition from governments and from the industry. And waste speakers contribute in so many ways to reducing plastic pollution. And I'll mention just two here because, yeah, they extract organic materials from unlined dump sites, which stops toxins from seeping into groundwater and into our ocean environments. And they provide collection services that prevent open waste burning, which can pollute the ocean. And sometimes they are providing the only waste collection systems that there is in some cities. So waste speakers collection systems, whether they are recognized and or included as service providers by municipalities or not, they provide raw materials at low prices to recycling industries and thus they do contribute to resource conservation, they contribute to pollution reduction and to climate change mitigation. They thereby perform an environmental service and it's about time that we acknowledge their contribution circular systems. Thank you, Sonia. Yeah, so it sounds like they are already part of the solution but not necessarily recognized as such and that's what needs to change. I really appreciate your thoughts there. And I wonder, Joshua, is this something you might want to comment on sort of why this topic matters to you, making this value chain not just circular but just and inclusive? Well, thank you very much. And I think Sonia gave a very awesome beginning to the conversation talking about sort of the role that informal economists play in the question of the circular economy and just a transition in this context. I think what I would like to mention is that in addition to the role they play, that role is significant and can only be enhanced and can serve a better purpose if the question of social inclusion not just in the circular value chain but also in the context of health, in the context of well-being, in the context of livelihoods, if all of that is integrated. And I think that is something that I'm very, very concerned about because during the COVID lockdown, we saw in certain cities and communities that informal waste workers were not able to play their role very well and that is because of the different restrictions that were there and they not being able to go out and clean the city. What that means for other people and other people, I mean those living in sort of slums and other neighborhoods where you don't have the upper class communities, what that means is that all of those people were at a higher risk because of the lack of capacity to informal waste workers being able to play their function. And if you look at different city circular economy strategies and waste management strategies, typically the data behind that is focused on the formal sector because that is where you can measure, really measure how much of waste goes into them, into the bin, how much goes into a material recovery site or a landfill. All the work that is done by the informal economy is not there. And if you look at social protection policies social protection interventions, you are using data to produce these interventions and policies and if you cut away the work of the informal economy and the work of informal waste workers, that means that all those interventions are not fit for purpose. So it is really important that we look at social inclusion but we should look at it also from the angle of not just the informal waste workers themselves but in a city and in the community, people who are low, not low income people in the community they are really going to be at a higher risk if informal waste economy players do not are not able to function well. So that is what I would like to add to this bit of the conversation. Thanks. Thank you, Josh. And Marcus, I see you unmuted earlier which I encouraged our panelists to unmute and make this a conversation. What about you? Can you talk about what a just and circular plastics economy looks like for you? Yeah, and thanks, Sonia and Josh for your comments. I think I just want to build on this. Inclusion for me is really broad because I think it's a joint responsibility. I think no one can solve the plastics issue alone. I think it's a joint cooperation of governments actually providing the right legal framework. It's us as plastics producers who need to work on innovation bringing down sort of say the CO2 footprints making sure our products are more sustainable. It's the packaging producers who need to work on lightweight packaging. It's the brand owners who need to accommodate it but also to potentially avoid packaging or make it light at least and sustainable. And it's the retailers who also need to provide the platform that people can select and have the choice. And at the end it's also the consumer who has the dramatic power in selecting products which are either not packed or sustainable to avoid unnecessary plastic waste and coming to the inclusion of waste speakers. Of course, there are many countries where there's kind of official formal waste waste collection systems and are well established. Even there we need to build on people actually sorting the waste and making sure that the waste collection works efficiently. It will help the whole recycling chain to get out with good recycled products. But we also have to where there are quite many regions in the world where they're quite remote. There's not a lot of infrastructure and I think here the informal waste speakers they play a very, very important role. So I would see them as complementing all the efforts that we're all doing helping us to make our planet more clean and they do play a very important role. Thank you, Marcus. I want to return to each of you now what are some projects you're taking on to tackle this issue? And maybe we'll start with Marcus if that's all right because I know you're working on Project STOP which is all about creating a more circular waste management system globally in emerging and developing regions in particular in order to stop ocean plastics at the source. So can you tell us more about Project STOP and then other panelists feel free to jump in in terms of the specifics on what you're working on to promote not just a more sustainable plastics economy, but a more equitable plastics economy. So we'll start with Marcus. Yeah, thanks Catherine. So I think thanks for the opportunity to share what we're doing here. Several years ago we took the responsibility being a plastics producer. We are aware that we have to kind of make our contribution so with our partner systemic we established kind of a project in Indonesia. We started with actually three cities. We're building up a waste collection system which means that we work together with local governments to actually help them with our expertise and systemic expertise to set the framework where we can actually collect waste. We do some funding also with sponsors who help us with funds to build up an infrastructure to actually collect and work on the waste. The other thing is of course awareness and training of people and by that we avoid that waste actually meets the ocean. That was the ultimate goal to avoid littering to the ocean but of course it has a primary effect that waste in the cities becomes less and to give you some numbers in the three cities we have served over 200,000 people who now live in a much better environment because it's less waste out there so it's all collected and used and we've collected 14,000 tons of waste and there are 2,000 have been plastic and this normally would have actually entered sooner or later into the sea and we're all aware of the issues that it creates there. So this material has been avoided to meet the sea and it's used for something for recycling and I think one important topic is we've created more than 200 jobs because it's not our intention to employ our people so what we do we create jobs for local people because at the end we will hand over the whole system towards the local community so it will need to be sustainable. We help them there's a slow release until they can fully own it but the intention is to fully release it into their ownership and then we can move on to the next city so it's actually a kind of open source system where we also learn of course with our partners and from the local communities but we can actually replicate this whole concept to other cities in Indonesia and that's a great learning opportunity we partner up with other companies it's really something working the talk so of course it's a very hands on project and we're quite proud of it of course this project alone doesn't solve the plastics issue but it helps us to set a signal and to motivate others to also contribute and we're quite proud of it but actually it's creating jobs I think some of the informal waste speakers have found jobs here so we can also create a more stable environment and also give them a good frame to have a good living and also for the families cleaner cities for sure will increase the quality of life. Thank you Marcus. Sonya, Josh would love to bring you into this and hear what you're working on within your own organizations but maybe how you're linking up with corporates, governments other actors on this issue whoever would like to jump in, go for it maybe Sonya? Yes, thank you. Thank you very much. Part of wego's work is on documentation research and statistics about informal workers at large and particularly waste speakers and all of that for us is to strengthen the voices of the workers based organizations cooperative movements iterations unions of waste speakers with and also to support visibility in the global arena and also at national, sub-national and local levels. So in this sense we have different programs one of our programs which is for more inclusive solid waste systems at the local level is the focal cities program and we have cities in Latin America Asia and in Africa in which we have dedicated wego stuff working alongside governments and other players important players another project that I want to raise attention on is the reducing waste for coastal cities and this project we are particularly addressing the total contribution of waste speakers in curbing pollution at our oceans and we have developed a calculator for assessing the contribution of waste speakers in the reduction of greenhouse gas emissions also we have a whole line of work in terms of the strengthening the technical capacity and also the internal democracy of this organization another line of work is our work with alliances such as the ocean plastic leadership network the circular capital initiative and the circular action hub among others in which we sit on the advisory board of these alliances with the goal of highlighting livelihoods as a central issue in this debate and contributing and devising frameworks for assessing their contribution so I guess I'll stop there. Thank you Sonia. I'm looking forward to soon transitioning to what you're working on some of the successes you're having challenges you're encountering but first Josh can you delve into some more specifics on how you're working to tackle this issue? Thank you very much and I hope you can still hear me because it's raining cuts and dogs outside here. In terms of works that we actually do on the ground specifically it's very in line with what I said before I think what we're doing is working together with municipalities district assemblies in Ghana also in Mali and the core of that work is for them to formalize the work of the informal sector where formalization means not making it too complicated but that means that putting them together being able to document with workers put an identity to the work they do because the reality is that when an informal with worker works to a home to take waste the way they are treated is very different from when a formal company comes to their truck and packs in front of their house and says we are here to pick up the waste and this is sort of a fundamental part of the work that we are doing to make sure that the waste workers when they go about every day doing their work there is dignity to the work they do there is value to the work they do and they have self respect to the work they do because this is important for everyone else and if the formal side of the conversation do not feel they shouldn't have the same challenges because it's the same way so if someone in a uniform works to a house and people pay their money and load their truck and everything goes smooth we do not expect that when an informal worker works into the home they get insulted look down upon or get comments which are really downgrading so this is the part of the work that we do giving them that identity registering them putting documentation behind the way they do making sure that they have access to health insurance particularly during the time of the COVID we realize that contracting is very important for the work they do such that when there is any destruction in the flow of work in a community in a city they are protected they have a contract which still gives them a basic access to income so that they can still have a livelihood and they have that social protection in terms of when there are sort of disasters or any chaos happening on the ground the other part of the conversation that the work we are doing with the informal workers is giving them a place where they can meet and work this is very important when you look at the formal site there is an office there is a place for people to meet and discuss to strategize, to plan and if you look at the informal site it's really sort of individuals maybe they meet on the road, they meet at the landfill site they are picking, they are talking but that environment is not conducive for a group of over 100 people to really sit and have a conversation about pricing so that is very important and that is the kind of work that we are doing but this is not something we can do as an NGO it's something that we do with the local government that it designates a site where we can bring in resources to develop that site to be conducive for them we can offer for instance some of the training we are offering is around management, people management how do you manage people in the informal sector it's very difficult for them because the communication is on different levels the understanding is different level they want them to bring a particular documentation information which is difficult to gather that and we are training some of the formal counterparts on how they can work better with the informal economy at the same time training the informal economy on some of the standards and practices which ensures safety and working conducively with each other's colleagues and also how to engage better with the formal sector and the municipalities and the local government officers thank you very much and I will pause here thank you Josh and I see before we continue our conversation with our panelists I see that the Honorable Minister has raised her hand which I love to see so Minister Mujawal Maria did you have something you wanted to contribute we'd love to hear from you thank you very much Catherine I wanted just to add on what Joshua has said Joshua has said even now in Rwanda we pay the workers to come and collect our waste household waste but from now on at least starting by January let's say May next year those cleaners or those companies that are in the recycling industry we start paying us not we paying them to come and collect the waste they will start paying us because the waste that we produce in our homes in our household will be a basic material for their industry so this we encourage families to do the sorting at the origin of the waste those who we want for example plastic waste we become and pay us per kilogram because we are giving them the material for the functioning of their industry and from that we will be encouraging our population not only for sorting and we will be encouraging our population to go to nowhere is wasted at the same time our population will be encouraged to saving having an account in a bank where the recycling industry will deposit the money for you and of course a clean city will give us a green country from those money our people are receiving they will buy seedlings to plant trees and to increase the forest coverage in our country let me tell you what we are fighting now for is to have alternative source alternative packaging because we have banned plastic bags but the industry of creation of alternative packaging for example for meat I mean for weight product we have to find alternative packaging that's why we are calling investors to come and invest in Rwanda in producing alternative packaging for our population and having a clean city or a clean country does not require financing it requires determination and the resilience to have a clean community to have a clean city to have a clean and a green nation and we can do it we have to be the change we want to see in this world and we can do it by fighting plastic pollution and I'm sure if we are from all the corner of the world we say no to plastic pollution we can't say no to plastic because we have all items like chairs we have to say no to plastic pollution no to marine litter plastic marine litter but what we have to say is no waste should be wasted everything should be transformed I'm a chemist and I know in chemistry nothing is wasted everything is transformed so as a human being we have to protect humanity by fighting plastic pollution I thank you very much I'm sorry I have to leave for another meeting I understand thank you thank you for sticking around and thank you so much for listening and for that powerful call to action we really appreciate it looking forward to following what you do in this space thank you Honourable Minister I have a few great questions coming in from the audience so I want to move to those and keep them coming in the chat or on Slido and I want to note it's noted in the chat that Slido is anonymous if you prefer to ask your questions anonymously that's a great place to do it let me go ahead and move to some of these questions so I'll close the first and panellists I would encourage you to unmute, jump in and let's make this a conversation here's the question the informal sector is automatically associated with low income low educated individuals how can we work to disassociate those prejudices who'd like to jump in on that if I may sorry let's go ahead when you said the question that came to my head was we can jump this and move it to a different conversation if we actually first of all acknowledge that there is a gap so saying that they are all out of low income I think that is what we need to acknowledge acknowledging that means we can make better investments into the work that they do into their livelihood and to upgrade that the second part is really seeing it as the way you would organize executive leadership training, executive MBA executive whatever courses for the formal sector we need to tailor different programs different training capacities for the informal economy as well so we can upgrade them so we have a lot of plastics and circular economy innovation challenge that has happened over the last two years and barely do any of them target the informal economy most of them are really targeted towards tech related innovations or innovations that are really sort of government led or company led and if you are being honest with ourselves if the informal sector is not organized in the form of a company that has a registration automatically we have these opportunities so there are many initiatives that are coming out that are supporting sort of the just transition itself and the plastics economy we need to make it just by having dedicated financing programs that target the informal economy that acknowledges what sort of the areas where they cannot compete with the formal side upscale them towards that level and be able to provide support for them this means that you do not expect them to write a proposal to get funding this means that you dedicate someone who works along with them put that on paper and be able to finance them because we cannot put them on the same scale and say that oh there is funding for circular economy and everyone has accessibility to it and acknowledging that is very important to make sure that we are providing the support and ensuring that there is a level in assessing these resources and pushing the sector and the individual towards the next level. Thanks Thank you, Josh. Marcus I see you have your hand raised. Go ahead and jump in. Yeah and I just wanted to build on what George says. Actually I think what's important and I think that's maybe that's a provocative statement but I think I want to drive also some mindset shift because how I see waste is at the end you can see waste as a raw material just being at the wrong place right and how we do with seed with the whole level of circularity actually in future we all need to we all want to actually stick to the Paris Agreement and there's no no way actually to we use fossil in the plastics industry and the way we also see the circularity actually we should as much as we can reuse only then what we cannot use a mechanical recycle because that has the best sort of say life cycle footprint and then go towards chemical recycling and only what cannot be chemical cycle in future will be other routes and whatever then sort of say is left in the chain, ideally we top up with renewable feedstock so the long-term vision should be actually to move away from fossil and have this full circularity and there's one element and that's where the element I want to build on what Josh says actually. I think we need to mindset why I've moved away that this is something negative and it's not well paid actually waste collection and recycling will be one of the value streams in future and we need to find the way how we actually found it and there three areas I would see actually we all need to come need to come better actually one actually paying for the waste because it's a raw material I think that's already and we try to establish that in Indonesia there's one element which is a plastics credit where that's what the programs where those who actually recycle they will get money for this recycled material which will help them to create more jobs and actually expand their recycling equipment and plants and the third element is the EPR which is the extended producer responsibility where all the ones who produce plastics and we are committed to that should have a kind of subsidized or not so found actually that waste is actually collected and actually is recycled so everyone in the chain needs to have a contribution and ideally this kind of value the money we put in the system because actually we make out products out of it so there needs to be value of this waste it should go down in the chain down to the pickers because they are the ones who normally get the least but they do a very important job so we need to make sure by establishing the right systems that the money we put in for this raw material which now we call waste is really reaching the pickers because we need them and it's an important work Thank you Marcus and Sonia I want to give you the opportunity absolutely I know you and Josh both jumped in initially so please jump in Yes I think one thing and I think it builds actually from what Joshua mentioned one key thing is investment in building formal workers capacity to deliver in complementarity with formal solid waste systems and to that end you know one concrete example is the example of my country I'm Brazilian and in 1998 we initiated a little species of UNICEF Brazil a program called the National Waste and Citizenship Program this was in fact a mult-stakeholder alliance with governments, waste speakers organizations, civil society and industries represented in this mult-stakeholder forum and we started a major capacity building program in which we not only build capacity for waste speakers to get organized into cooperatives but also to change the mindsets of the government representatives and industry because most often government officials and the industry think of modernization of solid waste that something related to capital intensive use technologies waste to energy and they don't build from what already exists which is the informal systems so you know building capacity in a program that is comprehensive that involves mult-stakeholder actors that not only encourage the formation of organizations of waste speakers but also create funding lines for them to access resources that enable them to buy equipment and build sorting places and address occupation and OHS issues is fundamental so just in a nutshell is what I wanted to add and the example of Brazil is well documented I have many papers about it for those interested to follow up on it Thank you Sonia and yeah the chat is a great place to include those resources and build connections for follow up I just want to note I see some fans that are raised and in a moment we'll be transitioning from this recorded portion of the conversation into a conversation under the Chatham House rule and we'll get to more of those voices we also have a couple questions that have come in that we haven't had the chance yet to get to we will get to them those questions include one on plastic credits another on increasing representation of vulnerable populations in decision-making processes within the plastics value chain I just want to thank those of you who are here with us watching the recorded portion of this event for your time and thank you to our panelists and we were tasked today with talking about shaping a just plastics economy what's already happening and what further action is needed and I think you all have provided us with really helpful examples and insights from around the world so again that concludes the recorded portion of this event now we'll transition into a conversation under the Chatham House rule where we can bring even more voices into this discussion so thank you so much and for those of you who can please stick with us