 Welcome to Reader Syndicate 3.0, the next evolution of the look into counterculture that is Canada. My name is Matthew, owner of Riot Seeds, and this started as a one-man mission for strain history and breeding science. Over time, it's evolved into something bigger, better, and more of a team effort. We will be joined by members of the Cannaluminati and other friends throughout the seasons to hear their takes on grow techniques, breeding science, strain history, and more. Our mission is to combat the narrative that corporate cannabis and seed posers are obfuscating for their own financial benefit. Welcome to the Underground. We are the Syndicate. Hey everyone, I just wanted to take a quick moment before we enter into this awesome episode with more members from the Canada Command Act. Let you know our blue revolution is in stock. The blueberry encross that we've been working on for five years now has finally added what I feel is a great completion point for it, a true breeding line for blueberry scents and flavor. It was our most popular selling line on the original release when we released the first Bluebonnet crosses. I didn't make a whole lot of them because I really wanted to explore what was in them before I did a major release. We were at that point, and it was originally a DJ Short blueberry from DJ Short's early, early work where he would sell the seeds at different talks that he would do across California at Collectives. Buddy Resinlong picked up some packs. He gave them to me. I went through them and found the best representative of what I thought the most beautiful blueberry was like. But it didn't have the exact scent that I wanted. When I saw that in my mind's eye, as I would look at it, I would picture beautiful blueberry jam, terps of flavor and scent, just all of it, and they didn't have it. We made a mission the last five years to make this a reality and something where you could pop a pack of seeds and it would be almost identical for that terp profile. We're there. They are now released on riotseeds.com. The pre-order is over. They're already shipping out. We also have something called the Modern Blue that we didn't really release. We did it on our Patreon, so definitely check that out. Our 50-tier Patreon ended up getting the lion's share of these with their monthly package. It was the McDaddy crossed the Blueberry N-Cross McDaddy from a company called Out-House Genetics. My personal favorite out of the hype strains as it were that we are merging with some of this blue stuff so that we can bring it into the modern generation and get some of the new kids interested. The Sherb Cream Pie, phenomenally resinous, great hashmaker, great yielding, nice long high for a Sherb cross, which is my biggest promosher, cross to our Blueberry N-Cross, and we call that one Blue Cocky. Yeah, triple entendre there. We have blues for me because it's blast for me to use something like Runtz for me. At the White Runtz, out of all the Runtz stuff, I found to be the best Runtz cross with the most potent high. We did a Blueberry N-Cross cross to that, bringing heavy, heavy Blueberry Jam Terps to the White Runtz. We also have Trot Berry, which is the Dosey Trop, a Trop Cherry, I believe, cross to the Dosey Dose, cross to the Blueberry N-Cross. All of these are currently available on our site. When they're sold out, they're sold out, and that's it. I wanted to make sure you're all aware of that. Without any further ado, let's get into our show and welcome Curbside and some of his homies from the Cabana. Welcome to Breeder's Syndicate. I'm Matthew, and today I'm here not with my co-host. He's busy doing work, so today I'm going to be the one hosting it. And we have some of the other crew from the can of Cabana. We've got Oki, we've got Chris Vouse. How do you say it? Yes, sir. And Kirby, the man behind the new version of Can of Cabana. And today we're going to talk with each one of these guys about how they got into everything, what their specialties are, what they've done with it, the different areas they've traveled. And not only that, but the future for the Can of Cabana, because we really want to instill from the Breeder's Syndicate side how important Forum Culture was and is and will always be to keeping everything correct, straight, and keeping that part of the culture alive, because that's been a major part of the culture for all of us. So with that, Oki, you want to start. Tell us about yourself, brother. How did you get started? Yeah, I got started in the weed biz by pretty much not having any access to good weed in Oklahoma. I was tired of kind of the Mexican brick that I was used to getting, and I kind of figured, hey, I might be able to grow better than this. And so, yeah, that's where I got started back in 2002 in Oklahoma, in my closet. And after that, we moved to Denver, which is where all of us met and kind of gradually scaled things up over time. Where did you get your seeds from early on when you, or your first genetics? Man, you know, I think it was, do you remember, it was like Heaven's Gateway or something. Oh, Heaven's Gateway? Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, that one. I got some, the first seeds I ever grew were, I'm pretty sure it was Brother's Grim C99, and then it was a G13 Hash Plant Cross. Real nice. I mean, I was a shitty grower at the time, so it wasn't that good, but, you know, it was a nice place to start. Yeah, dude, I mean, it's like a different look from the Mexican brick weed, obviously. I grew up on the same, like I was a dead definite Mexican brick weed smoker, you know, growing up. And I appreciated it for what it was until I found real dank and really quickly realized there's a whole, this is a whole another level of weed, bro. So yeah, I appreciate that. How about you, Chris? Tell us some of your early beginnings. Yeah, I grew up in Florida. Pretty much similar story to Oki, you know, started growing in my closet when I was in college. I started smoking when I was like maybe 12 or 13, kind of on the regular, but by late high school, you know. And in college, I actually found myself like, you know, I went to a big Florida college like everyone party in and I couldn't like hang and drink like bothered my stomach. And I figured out that like cannabis was my social in it was my way to talk to girls and my way to hang out with people and, you know, because I couldn't hang on like pounding beers night after night. Yeah. So I kind of just became I think I started selling weed I started growing weed. And, you know, I met some good people early on that got to put me on got, you know, guys that had a bunch of grow houses going and just put me to work as like a grind, basically. And, you know, we just had the old speed trays with the Rockwell slabs and, you know, like early, early mid 2000s, you know, similar timeline, 2003, 2005. And, and, you know, I had a couple of spots eventually got my own little spot going cranking out and and then we all got raided. And then ended up laying low for a couple of years and, you know, spent a lot of time in Amsterdam's under Europe a lot. And, you know, and then went to California in 2009 was in Oakland ended up getting like Rob's and just everything fell apart. It was just like an Oakland story, you know, 2009 when things were just open. Yeah. And I had a cousin in Denver. And I was like, you know, Colorado is not that bad. And they're like legalized in like Calius. So I just went there and like kind of started life over in his basement. And he let me kind of run his grow. And, you know, within less than a year of being in Colorado, I had an investor, a warehouse, a spot, you know, just just meeting people. And, you know, it was a good thing. So what were some of the early strains you saw when you were first barely starting to grow? Um, the guys that I got put on with just were growing this hash plant, this Florida hash plant that, you know, I've heard the guys from swamp boys, a couple of people that were in that scene in that day talk about. You know, some people said it came from the sense he sees hash plant from Amsterdam, but nobody was really sure. Some people say it may have been the white before we called it that because it had that, you know, squatty. It was real hashy smelling like that mere scene kind of really cut through. And yeah, it was just about pumping that one plant out and it was super dank. But I feel like like I never saw anything like that again. I think that cut just disappeared like everybody got busted and this didn't make it, you know. Yeah. Florida had some dank, bro. Florida had all kinds of dank over there running around in different little circles. Pretty wild. Yeah. Yeah. The big indoor scene up until 2006 when the, you know, there was federal funding to like get everybody busted. But they said there was more indoor in Florida than in California. I believe it. Yeah. Yeah. They held down like, you know, the triangle push, the white, like you said, the gains go green. There's all kinds of stuff that came out of there that was just absolute fire. And, and changed the world of cannabis as far as I see it. Yeah. Okay. Kirby curbside. Let's see. Probably like mid to late 90s. I started smoking weed, swag weed that I was stealing from my dad. Yeah. Yeah. You know, so and he, he didn't have the highest of standards for himself. So it wasn't very good. For sure. Yeah. And, but then I had a buddy, real good friend of mine who had went to Amsterdam and came back with some seeds. Believe they were some Neville's Northern Lights number five. Oh, nice. He grew that and we smoked that for years. We called it Cleese brand. And that was kind of like, he was the first dude of our, of my friends that was growing weed had, you know, did it from seed, all of that. And I had another buddy, another buddy who was a big smoker who had a hippie friend who always had like the fire, like the best weed that we had seen at the time. And he had some strawberry cough one time. I remember yuck mouth from the loonies was in town and we got this ounce that we were going to go sell the yuck mouth. And he looked at it. It was like the best weed we had ever seen too. We were all just like, oh, we shouldn't even sell this to him. And then he takes one look at it. He's like, oh, this is some fruity shit. I don't want this. And we were all just like, what? Just like crying over here trying to figure out how we can get this weed back from him. Yeah. Right. But, uh, yeah. So we just started smoking. He was, you know, I started learning how to grow a little bit of weed from him. I was always, you know, hustling some weed on the side. And, uh, early on my favorite, uh, I mean, back in the day, when I think of like early 2000s weed, and it's still, I've talked about it several times, favorite weed, all time cat piss. It would stain your pipe. It would, you know, you, you'd be smoking something different and three weeks later in the resin in your pipe would still taste like cat piss. That's just so pungent. What area of the country were you living in? I was in Denver, Aurora. Were you born and raised there? Born and raised in Aurora, Colorado. Cool. Cool. Right. I didn't know that part. So, uh, yeah. That's, uh, early on, uh, right when Chris kind of moved out there, it was probably around 2009. Surely after he got out there, we linked up, um, online somehow. I can't even tell you specifically how it happened. I ended up working with Chris in his first warehouse that he even had up there in, uh, Boulder. It was, uh, behind a strip club called the bus stop. Um, it, uh, there was always some entertainment provided and standing out smoking your joint outside of work. You're not, uh, so yeah. And, uh, just, you know, Chris, he's so good at, uh, networking and meeting people and he travels around all the time. Like so many people that I've met and become friends with or, you know, mutual acquaintances with is from Chris traveling around, meeting everybody. And one of the best introductions that you could make, you know, back in the day in the weed game was like, Oh, I'm such and such from the cabana and it was almost like, you know, the locks and the doors just opened up and it was like, you were almost already kind of verified and, uh, so you already had the cabana stamp of approval. So a lot of people were more open to, uh, meeting you and, you know, talking to you and working with you and stuff. So that's how, uh, it started early on. Yeah, I did. I remember, you know, I think me and you first met, I don't remember who it was through, maybe Phil, Phil Rojo, but I remember we first met at a strip club, uh, uh, Shotgun Willys. Every 420 back in the day, uh, Kanarato would throw a big, um, event at Shotgun Willys and can't remember what it was. He had some kind of loose connection to Shotgun Willys. Yeah. Just a few loose connections there. Yeah. So somewhere, uh, they allow all of us to go in there and run rampant for the day. But yeah, there were, uh, a couple of really good years where we had a lot of people. I remember the stacks of two dollar bills, bro. Stacks of twos from Kirby. If you were there for the two dollar bill year, you were there for a good year. Oh yeah. I was there the year. I don't know if you remember this. Me and Joe Schmo decided we were going to start smoking inside Shotgun Willys. And the cops fucking pushed us all the way into the back and we're kind of surrounding us slowly, but surely because they weren't quite sure if we're going to fucking fight and what we're going to do. And all of a sudden, like a hooker backed back to Lamborghini up over a cop car. And that was it dude. Like they all build out the front. We were able to fucking scurry on out. It's just crazy because like events like that, man, just the six degrees of separation that so many of us have. You know, what do you call it? The Kevin Bacon theory or however. Yeah. Yeah. That's like for sure. And we, and out in Colorado, man, it was cool because there were several, uh, um, I got it. I might have a special guest for us later, man. We just mentioned his name. He actually just texted me here. So we can see if we can get Rojo on here, man. Oh my God. That would be killer, dude. It'd be killer. Um, where was that? I lost my train of thought there. Uh, just, you know, seven degrees of separation. Kevin Bacon, how we all kind of went through there. And. Oh yeah. I don't call it out. There was kind of like, you know, we all knew each other. We all had gone to, you know, motive, motive 303. He threw a bunch of, uh, Great dude. Barbecues and gatherings at his house. So we'd go over to motives. I would do some in my house. We'd come over to mine. We'd go to Skitty's house. We'd go to Bobby O's house. We'd be at, uh, Howie's, of course. That was kind of like the, um, the home base, I guess you would say. And, uh, but, you know, there were people that, hung out with, you know, Cobb and Paco and Rojo. Those guys kind of always hung out, you know, with themselves and then motive. And, you know, I might be getting, you know, getting things wrong and who hung out with who, but everybody had their own little clicks. And, uh, Yeah. Rojo and Paco and Cobb. Yeah. Yeah. Um, Cause they all used to work together. I think, um, I have a spot down here in Denver. There was also the Adam Dunn cannabis cup events. You remember those? Yes. Yeah. When they started doing those, me and Mitch originally had planned those out for an event we were going to do called the breeder's ball. And it suddenly got like co-opted into Adam Dunn's kind of gig. But those are kind of fun too. Cause like you'd have breeders that fucking wanted to kill each other at those events. And we would all just kind of put all our, our weapons down as we came in the fucking event and smoked. There was a period in time with the events probably. It's probably 10 years ago now where it's like 10 years ago, I'd say was like the height of cannabis events. And then, then they started kind of getting flooded. And, uh, there was too many of them and they were too expensive. All of that. They kind of drown themselves out. And then COVID came and, you know, nobody wanted to hang out with anybody. It's still, uh, it's still recovering now, I think as far as like a smoking cannabis scene. And it's, it's a little different. I mean, a lot of people are, you know, still, you know, just sit down and blaze with anybody, but I don't want to go to a cup and just smoke. Everybody's weed anymore. And I've had a cup cough. I don't want to. Yeah. We, we have events. We have events. And I've had a cup cough. I don't want to. Yeah. We, we have events for our group of me, CSI, Bode, a bunch of us out here in California. And I'd love to get you guys all to come out for it. If possible. I know it's a, you know, hell of a trip, but we do it out in the last time we did it out by Yosemite, rented a big ass mansion, crashed for a few days and just smoked tons of different kinds of weed from everyone. And it's, you won't have to twist my arm very hard, man. Yeah. And it was, it was in the, like, I really took it from like the nugs and jugs events, the shit Kanarado did and even some of the Adam Dunn stuff. Like it was all inspiring to me to be like, I think we can pull this shit off where even if people don't necessarily get along, we can get along for three days smoking weed and talking weed and being fucking nerds for a little bit. And it's, it's been fucking insane. One year we had like, you know, Josh D all the triangle guys come out, Irene crew came out. It was pretty phenomenal. So this next round I really would love to have some of you guys come out. I learned from the events that the booth is like the magic spot. You know, if you have the booth where, you know, and when I was working with the lazy lion, we would always go out of our way to have one of the biggest booths and have extra space so people could hang out and to have that social aspect of it. And I would always tell all these breeders, like you don't need a booth. You can come set up at my, at my booth and sell seeds, make money, you know, we can combine the traffic of everybody over there and it, it worked real well for a long time and everybody was always welcome and we made, I made some great friends that way and met a ton of people and acquired a ton of seeds, gave a ton of seeds away, you know. So it was good times back in the day and I hope the industry can get back to there at some point. There has to, we've got to kind of level out at some point. I think, I think like what we're trying to do with the show too is to bring back some of that culture, teach some of the younger dudes that this shit did exist, does exist, can exist. And if there, there is something deeper than just like trying to strain hunt the newest cookies and flashing and flexing your shit on Instagram, like you're some big baller, like there's a lot more culture involved in that and like love and brotherhood, very deep that lasts, last decades and span decades, you know, that they can become a part of and be involved in if they're good people. The newer generation too, I think they're spoiled in the sense that we gave them so much stuff that they didn't have to work for it all. Very true. Very fucking true. You know, these events, like they were kind of taboo for a while there and it was like, people were scared to go to cannabis cups early on because it's like they didn't want to be associated with them or seen at them or something and just the whole shift of how it's changed over the years and the dynamic of how people approach them and how they're utilized and stuff. It's interesting to see, you know. I miss, I miss how Emerald Cup was out here because we get a lot of you guys out here for Emerald Cup and like getting to see guys like Rado, you know, you guys and interacting and it was super fucking cool because we don't, living across the country, we don't get to see each other too often and a lot of that culture has been lost with the Emerald Cup, how corporate it's gone, not a lot of it. I was just going to say Emerald Cup used to be kind of the thing that everybody was, it was looked at as kind of like the equilibrium where it was fair playing ground and the best of the best was going to go there and then it turned into sponsorship dollars. Yeah, and seed companies would make like their money for the year there, dude. Like that's make a chunk there and it would feed a lot of people. I've seen, I've been at the booth, you know. Yeah, right. With people and seeing the well end of the six figures coming in over a weekend for sure. Those weekends, I don't know how many of them there are these days, but back in the day there were some good weekends. Yeah, dude, there really isn't anymore. I mean like, if you're not like a registered licensed company, you're not getting in and that's just that. So a lot of us just don't fuck about that part of it, you know. Not me, of course, I'm totally legal and follow every law. I thought Emerald Cup probably peaked in like 2016 and then after that it just kind of got like, you know, more just corporatized and more about the business than actually an event for growers because it was always good going out there because like as a grower, you know, you can go to all these other cups and you know, high times cannabis cup or whatever was going on, but you didn't really have access to like the genetics and what was really happening. But you know, Emerald Cup, whatever, I go see a doctor for five minutes right there in line to get in and he checks my arm and then I'm going in the back medical area and you know, and I get to like talk to the breeders and they have jaws of the flower and I can open it, touch it, smell it before I buy the seeds. Like you couldn't do that online. You couldn't do that anywhere, you know. So as a grower, it was the number one event because like you could touch and feel the genetics before you grow it. That's so, that's like, that was a game changer and when they got rid of that, I was like, there's no point in going anymore. Yeah, that's what I felt. I stopped participating myself. Everyone always used to bring their special drops to the Emerald Cup too. Like, you know, their big crosses and their big drops. Exclusive drops, bro. I mean, I used, my Emerald Cup budget was blown every year and far exceeded on beans and stuff that I'd come back with and then people were always gifting, you know, coming to the booth and dropping stuff off and things like that and just some the genetics that the Emerald Cup provided, man hands down the best event. Absolutely. There were some good high times cannabis cups and, you know, Denver and I was out there the first year for that and it was pretty decent. For the Denver one? Yeah, the very first Denver cannabis cup. Yeah. Those ones were good. I think I can't remember if if that was the year I brought Cornbread Ricky out. It was the year Karma actually won the cup. Okay. Yeah. His very first cup and it was like, fuck one of at the time I thought one of the good guys won but he ended up snitching on me so Karma did. Oh, yeah. Sure fucking did. Yeah. See my mouth. Yeah, right. That's the other hard part, man. There's a, you know, everybody has their list of people that they don't fuck with, man. Yeah. Whereas with the Cabana, I've been trying to make it a place where everybody can be friends with everybody. Yeah. And I've been trying so hard to make that happen and I have encountered a couple of walls where it's like, oh, so and so this and so and so that. I'm like, bro, grown man, this is the internet. Ignore him. Yeah. Yeah. It's not too fucking hard. You know, like, even for me who's a very aggressive personality and like really have our time shut in my mouth, like it's kind of nice to have the Cabana and like I've even dropped some beefs with people that I fucking hated since day one. You know, people that trolled the first, my first troll, bro. And we reached out to each other just like, dude, how old are we now? Let's just fucking chill, you know. It's been nice for that reason and it's opened up a lot of bridges for me, but like some of us grow over the years and get used to that shit. Like even with the karma thing, like, that was a big deal. But like at the same time, I'm past it is just whatever. Yeah. There's always extenuating circumstances. That was one of the benefits. That's not like it, but Cabana was that because you had to go through the invite process and they were more strict about, you know, starting shit that you didn't have just like trolls. Like, I mean, we were all on like I see mag and all these others like for that, you know, and, and you could just create another account, create another email, whatever, go on there. Yeah, yeah, yeah. You could talk shit about yourself as a way to hype yourself up as a seed brand because just to get drama started or whatever. Absolutely. That, you know, but you couldn't, none of that was flying on the Savannah because I got loaded so many times, right? Yeah. And it was you and you had to like beg, you know, beg to get back on there. Yeah, I did. You know, I'd have like long conversations, like three, four hours with, with Howie, with the admins and like, all right, I'm sorry. You know, yeah. Yeah. There were zero tolerance policies and then there were Cabana zero tolerance policies, man. And they took them to another level back in the day, but they were actually needed at the time. They really were. They really were. And it offered, it made the Cabana a place that for, I mean, for so many reasons, but that one specifically made it different than the other places, man, because somebody got in there and mouth and off like it was, it was deleted. It was reported. He was banned. Yeah. It was never an issue. Yeah. You know, and I never, I never held me hard feelings because I always knew it's like, that's an old guard at the Cabana. They don't put up with that shit. So I never held me hard feelings. I was like, yeah, probably fucking far on that one, you know, like it was good to know. You got to self-check a little bit, but they've always been, even after that though, they were always fucking cool to me. You know what I mean? So it's always been a place close to my heart. Even with the Cabana and me, you know, there was, I did a lot of things that weren't exactly like Cabana friendly activities. So I wasn't on there actively for a long time, but I'd still be bellyboating with Howie on the weekends and going fishing and add all the barbecues. And, you know, so I don't have many posts on the Cabana. I was never like the most active guy on there. But it's because I was working with seeds. Boom. I'm working with all these breeders. I'm doing all these things. I'm doing all these testers. And they don't like seeds. I'm, you know, growing weed for this giant dab bar where it's like a smoke facility. And, you know, we don't want to promote that to the, to the crowd. And so there's just things I was doing that weren't Cabana friendly, but I was still always around with the Cabana. You know, Skitty, I give him a ton of props because to this day, I still grow just my own version of Skitty tech. You know, it's all essentially the same. Kind of technique. I switch up my nutrients and I've done things, you know, tons of different ways where Skitty is pretty tried and true. And he does not deviate from his script very often. And still rocking it with tremendous success to this day. And Skitty was the first dude that I met like years ago. It's like 2011 where he's like, yeah, I only got like 3.1 per light on this round. You know, I'm going to do better next time. Everybody used to throw those numbers around on the forums and we're like, yeah, bro, whatever, but like, I had to, you know, I'd see his garden. I see how meticulous he was in his canopy. And I even went there just to trim for him a couple of times and just to see what it was. And I'm like, bro, he's really do way what he says they do. Like, wow. And, and, you know, he was, you know, like Kerb said, there's a lot of just consistency there. And, you know, he, he, he just was like, he just had his method. And I mean, it was kind of like early crop steering before he knew what it was because he'd be watering them a couple times a day by hand. You know, you know, you know, you know, but yeah, sometimes he's hand water four times a day, you know, so, um, and, and we didn't understand that then, like more water, more news equals more yield, but really like, you know, like, isn't it already wet? What does that matter? Yeah, right. You know, but, but yeah, he, he, he really proved that because yeah, because I mean, back in the day, like on the forums, everybody like said, whatever, you know, it was hard to prove anybody's real yields and everyone's setups were, it was primitive, you know, so it's not like we had de-use on the ceiling and like, we were just flat job and even even bigger, bigger grows hundred lighters. I mean, we're using residential ACs and like, we didn't really know what we were doing. And then, you know, from an engineering like design standpoint, at least. So, um, so it was just cool to have that open sharing of knowledge, but, but like what was different for the cabana was just, it was so genetic centered. And, you know, like, like Curb said at the beginning, like, you know, it was all, it's just like open the door, like, you know, like the gatekeepers had finally opened the gate to like all the hoarded clone onlys of the time that you only read about that, you know, we're like, we were like, ah, it's finally my turn to be the cool kid. You know? Right. And you can finally see pictures, good grows of some of these things that you'd only heard about. And, you know, I mean, when you'd look on ICMAG, you'd see people growing it. And it'd be like nine obviously different plants that weren't related. But finally on the cabana, you could see legit shit being grown. And that was something special, I think. And, uh, And it's, and it's one of the things I'm telling people now, like, why should you visit the cabana? Cause you can finally see that shit. You can finally go look and see all that stuff. It's there. You know, like this is, this is important historical documentation. I do encourage people to dig through these forums, man, and look through some of these old posts. And you will be shocked at who you see chiming in and discussing things. Oh yeah. Like back in the day when it was like, you know, ghost OG was the hot thing. It's like, I knew we had the real ghost cause how we got the ghost from ghost. Yeah. I mean, it was like, there's never any question about it. And the authenticity of clones when people really started like trading genetics, it was a blessing and a curse at the same time. Because you got the people who got the real genetics and we'll share them and get them out to people. And then you got other people who will take any old thing and just say, Oh, this is SFV. Oh yeah. And when you're somebody trapping out a 10 lighter or 20 lighter and that's your main thing. You got your whole garden riding on this, riding on this SFV OG clone or whatever it may be. And then it's, it's some boof shit. That's, you know, not the real thing. You know, even if it's good, but it's not SFV. It's like, you know, it was the hard part was confirming things, but the cabana, everything was like already confirmed. ICMAG, THC farmer, everything came like with a level of skepticism. There's so much fucking shenanigans on those places, bro. I can't even, it's not a lot good. I can say about those places to be honest. I mean, granted, I love all those places and I encourage everybody, man. I want every back in the day. I was on THC farmer, ICMAG, roll it up. Troll it up. I was, I was never on roll it up, but I've been from jungle boys had his own little forum like there for a minute. I can't even remember what it was called right now. Can a collective, I think. Oh God. Yeah. That was, that might have been a seed bank. I can't remember. That was the, after that, that forum pot pimp went down, it became can a collective. You remember pot pimp? Oh, the UK group. Oh fuck. What a dumb ass name for a forum. There was another one that like, like cornbread and a couple guys were on that was a bunch of Cali guys were running it like sway and those guys from Sacramento and everybody would always be in the chat room. What was the name of that site? I can't remember. It was another one. I don't know. It was like trying to be like the Cabana, but it never really took off other than the chat room. And the chat room is the people like late at night talking shit while their res is going up basically. Yeah. You know, like, I was always formally disinvited from these places, bro. Like, whether it be at icy mags, I wouldn't sell my seeds there and then logic in the farm. There's a actual, like when you Google Matt riot, the first thing that pops up is Matt riot is a total douche bag on the farm. Like, Yeah. They love, they love my ass there. Yeah. Man, there were actual like forum superstars back in the day and forum villains. Yeah, I would definitely fit the villain mold. Yeah. You might have been a villain, man. Definitely villains. Yeah. You kind of guess it like, you know, who's troll account you're interacting with, you know, right? We knew, we knew a few pretty infamous trolls or so. Kendo. We, we have a buddy who, he might, he could be up there and top trolls. Which one? On the forums in the game, man. Which one? Still too big, I think was his name. Still too big? Still too big. Yeah. He, he's a real life troll. And he's also one of the best dudes in the world. He would give you a shirt off his back. So, as trolls go, he was our troll. Yeah. For sure. Yeah. I think he disseminated more genetics that we're supposed to have. Respections on them than anybody I ever met. He was just like, he was like, what? I'm not supposed to give this to anybody. All right. I'm going to give it to like 50 people. You don't give them a cut with conditions for getting. Right. You have something in your garden with conditions. Like Oak, he was saying like, don't even tell him because the second you tell him, like, he can't have this one. That's the one he's taken. Yeah. For sure. He's going to do whatever. He's going to go down. Then he's going to come up the stairs and tell you, hey, I just stole that clone from there, man. I'm going home to root this up. Yeah. He's having his ear like a, like a pencil or a joint. He just had the clone there. He's out. So, I want to start getting into some of you dudes, like what your specialties are. Okay. What's your specialty? Like where did you take cannabis? Where did you find your niche in this, uh, wide world, man? Um, you know, that's a tough one to answer. Um, I think like, if I do have a specialty, it's just, uh, you know, being able to, uh, put a concept together and, you know, get people excited about it and then, you know, follow through on the execution. Um, you know, from a growing perspective, uh, uh, a lot of the stuff that we're working on now is all new to me, like the, the crop steering stuff, you know, all of the science associated with that. And, uh, you know, uh, we're all, uh, used to growing in the basement and then, you know, I had a brief, uh, a bit of greenhouse growing experience, but, uh, yeah, commercial stuff is like fairly new to me. Yeah. And how's that been for you? Oh, it's good. I mean, uh, the, there's a good and bad with it. I mean, I don't have to worry about anyone kicking in my door anymore, but, you know, going through, uh, testing, uh, sucks a lot. And, you know, uh, dealing with metric and just, you know, running a legal business is, uh, on a different level than, uh, anything legacy. How is, um, HPLV affected, uh, anything that you're doing? Uh, you know, knock on wood, uh, no effects so far, but, um, you know, we, uh, we've done a lot of our, uh, own Fino hunting. Um, you know, we try to, we try to, you know, uh, we're able to find out which genetics are really working in our facility, in our environment, you know, for the practices that, uh, we're implementing. So, and the genetics that fit your growth, dude, like that's something a lot of people don't understand is, you know, like you hear about the hype strains and you want them, for sure, you're going to make it work. And it's not always how it goes, you know, so you have to find ones that fit your grow, fit your environment, or that you can morph just a little bit to grow with the strain, but at a certain point, you know, you're, it's just fighting to try to make something fit. And if it doesn't fit, you must not acquit. You know what I mean? For sure. I mean, all we're doing right now is just kind of, you know, genetically throwing shit at the wall and seeing what sticks, you know, it's like, uh, we, we got to understand, you know, not only what is going to work in our facility, but what is there a market for as well, which isn't always easy to determine. So what kind of stuff do you find right now? What kind of stuff are you interested in right now in your facility that seems to be working for what you're doing? Um, well, I mean, we just did a seed run of candy fumes, which I'm pretty excited about. I mean, we're still waiting for testing to come back on that, but we've got several phenos that look pretty promising. Um, this next run, we're going to be putting in some, uh, we've got three different phenos of women, Maraschino from Swamp Boys that, uh, we're going to be committing a little bit more space to, um, and, uh, yeah. That's good to hear. I mean, like I, anytime you hear some of these old dudes like Swamp Boys getting some respect, I'd like to hear that and making their way into the, the modern market, you know. Mm hmm. Okay. It's been, uh, a notorious good phenoselector too. Over the years, whenever you pop some beans, you usually find something pretty good. So I need to send Okie some shit too. I wouldn't leave them off the list. Yeah. I know. Yeah. If you, if you're wanting to run through some insane blue Terps, I got you bro. Love blueberry. Yeah. Me too. I'm a blueberry fiend and I've made it my mission to make the best blueberry possible on earth. So I think, I think we're there. So I'm stoked. How about you, Chris? Tell us about some of your journey now and what you're doing now. Yeah. Um, it was up until like 2016, 2017. I was still in the, you know, legacy gray market, whatever you want to call it, because it's a different name every year, traditional market. Traditional. Yeah. You know, and a buddy of mine who's also from the forums and, you know, around older chat, kind of got me into consulting. And, uh, was always into a lot of the nutritive side of cannabis. Um, had been, you know, to making my own custom nude formulas, you know, dry salts and, uh, eventually kind of did a lot of stuff with soil, soil analysis, really thrown some science at soil techniques rather than just, you know, just guessing. Um, and, uh, you know, I was lucky through consulting that, I got to step into some pretty big facilities and start to learn, you know, kind of how to talk to talk with those people and, and gain some business acumen and, and, um, you know, uh, soon after that, like 2019, 2020, uh, really up until last year, uh, that whole period that, that, you know, four or five years, um, I spent in various just director roles around the country, um, at, uh, commercial facilities. Um, you know, nothing really stuck, unfortunately. Um, and, and a lot of places, you know, I was just grinding myself for the bone. Um, and it was either like, you know, it just wasn't a fit as far as the chemistry with the owners, or they were just like, I came in as their like fifth rower in the place of the mess. Oh yeah. And I, you can only fix this so much because they're broke or they're going through a lawsuit or, you know what I mean, that position to be put in. It is. Um, and, you know, and I met some good people in that world as well. And, you know, kind of learned how to manage people a little bit better and, uh, manage my time, manage, you know, tasks and software and, and, you know, just do other things that you didn't really do as a grower. Yeah. So, um, but always kind of going back to the nutritive side, always like focused on, um, efficiency is, you know, both Oki and I are both engineers, but, you know, academically, so it's like you're always thinking efficiencies and, and, um, you know, hopefully not the sacrifice quality, but just asking like the, the house and the wives of a lot of the things you're doing and, um, you know, and, and taken that approach. And so right now I'm working with Hortrow Coco, um, which has actually been great to being something ancillary, not running one of these facilities myself. And, uh, Hortgro. Hortgro Coco. Yeah. They're, they're based in Santa Cruz, Watsonville, um, and, you know, small company. I'm employee number two on the, on the US side. I'm basically doing all the, the product business development for the cannabis side of it. I'm working with a lot of growers. Um, back in 2019, uh, I was running a big place up in Washington and we were burning through a couple of different brands of Cocoa. You know, that's when like Cocoa, I feel like Cocoa was really blown up at that time. Everybody wanted to grow in Cocoa. It was like hype or legalization was spreading. Everybody's building these mega facilities. And, uh, and there was a lot of just fly by night Cocoa brands that were salty or had rude acids or whatever. Um, so, you know, so we all went through it and, uh, and that's, you know, I started applying different like lab analysis and different things to Cocoa. And, um, I always just went back to pork row. It's like, this is actually a really good product, small company. I could text the CEO. He'll make something special for me if I want. And just circle back to them and, you know, started just like working with them at MJ biz and some of the conferences, just the interface for growers and, you know, be someone knowledgeable for them. And, uh, yeah, just January this year, they asked me to come on full time with them. And that's been a total pleasure. And, you know, it's funny that my, my social media has like grown way more in the, in the cannabis cultivation community, like working for them than it is. That's like a trap guy with like, even with like all the breeder connections and everything I have, none of that mattered, you know. So, yeah, it's been a blessing. I'm grateful for it. Yeah, dude, I'm a cocoa fiend and we need to talk. Hell yeah. I'll get, I'll get you some samples. I'll hook you up. Yeah. We also got the Kibana code for anybody, uh, on the Kibana, you can go check out the hort grow forum over there. Chris will answer any questions you got and get a coupon code. So, if you order up some hort grow, you get 15% off. Yeah, dude, we'll do the same. If you want, we could do the same with breeder syndicate too and fucking pushing people your way. Cause a lot of people like to grow like I grow, and I'm a cocoa fiend, yeah, a purist. Yeah. And I get 100% vouch for hort grow. Uh, Chris and I were actually working in a facility out here in Oklahoma together last year or the year before I can't time flies. Two years ago now. Yeah. Yeah. Two years ago now and we ran the whole thing on, uh, one gallon expandable cocoa pots from hort grow. Yeah. And they were awesome. That's fucking awesome. Yeah. Yeah. That's what we're using right now. What's that? Uh, that's what we're running in our facility right now as well. The hort grow one gallon open tops. That sounds fucking awesome too. So, what kind of strange are you working with right now? What's your newest stick over there running? Um, I've got a, uh, a Fino of a triangle clean from, um, um, relentless genetics. That's really nice. Really, uh, really a triangle dominant Fino that just has like a little bit of cherry, uh, on it. Uh, we really like that one. Um, it's, uh, um, you know, it's taking a while for the market to discover it just because it's not like, you know, bright purple. Uh, but, uh, but a lot of people are discovering it. I think it's going to be one that we kind of become known for. Uh, we're going to bring green weed back in. For sure. Yeah, it's needed, but no, like relentless. I like that's one of the few dudes that came in after I did. And like, I really did a bad job of like keeping track cause so many people came in. Like, you know, when I first started, there was maybe 50 people doing it big worldwide, like selling seeds in that. Yeah. And now there's, you know, 10,000 seed companies via Instagram. And relentless was one of the few that I, I actually respect the dude quite a bit. Real super nice dude. I appreciate what he's doing and he's doing good work. All of his, uh, rotten crosses. If you come across his rotten cherries or, yeah, yeah. Um, rotten bananas or anything, all of his rotten crosses that I've seen fire, fire, right? Yeah. I've heard a lot of good shit about his work. So he's one person I want to collab with in the future, just because I, I like seeing the next generation take it to a new level. And he's one of the people doing it. Yeah. All right. So let's talk about some of the cabana stuff and where, what kind of stuff are you going to be implementing? How is it going to change from where it was? Uh, when I, you know, was on it for a while and then off and then on and then off and then on. And how is it going to go into the future? Most important thing for everyone to take in is that we are open to the public now. So you can go register right now, um, set up an account and you'll have full access to everything. There's no, uh, tiered memberships. You won't have to pay for anything. Everything is completely free to the community and a lot of old school knowledge on there. I'm trying hard to get the new generation to come over and check us out. And I think they'll find, you know, some educational things and some information that, uh, you know, it makes worth, uh, checking out the cabana on a regular basis. The link scrolling across the bottom of the screen for anybody watching, so you know, should be no question where you're headed to. The other things that we're doing is, uh, pretty much all the rules and old restrictions that were once there, um, are gone. So if you are a breeder and you are making seeds like, man, come tell us about these seeds, come post them up, come trade seeds with me because I might offer you, I might want, I might want some of those beans. Yeah. You got the good shit in your spook involved. Yeah. So I want everybody to know that, uh, it's a seed friendly community, man. You can sell some beans. We've got people hitting you up in the DMs, want some beans by all means, man. I want everybody to, uh, be able to utilize the Cabana as a tool and, uh, make it a valuable asset for them, man. And the great thing about the Cabana, probably more, maybe not just in just sheer numbers because places like ICMAG and some of these people have like so many registered members because they've been open for 20 years. Yeah. But, uh, we have so many breeders on the Cabana. And people who have just been making beans in their closet for 20 years and have, uh, a seed arsenal that would, you know, make most of a sweat if we looked at it, you know, and, uh, so I'm going to make it so those, those seeds are going to be available to people. I want to give the small guys a way to, um, get their beans out into the community and, um, so we're going to work on that. We're going to have a store coming. Um, stoked man. We got a lots of breeders already involved and the breeders that, uh, it's going to be easy to get more involvement from these breeders as we get more involvement from the community. You know, so some people are like, oh, they're not on there that much. Well, they will be if, you know, if there was a reason for them to be there, they'll come, you know, nobody's up on there just because I picked a company that I thought was cool. No, I talked to everybody, everybody's down with the mission and it's just a matter of getting our traffic up and, uh, you know, getting the vibe back to where it kind of used to be and how we get there and how we do that. I'm still working on it. We're throwing, uh, lots of ideas out. And so if anybody's got ideas or you got an idea that you think like, oh, this would be dope if the forums did it like this. I want to hear them. You know what I mean? Let me know. So like, I want this forum to be for us, for the people who appreciate the forum. Like let's make it so, you know, it's the best form it can be for us. You know, for a 420, I don't know if you guys are down for it, but me and CSI both worked on some diesel fans and, uh, my new blueberry shit. Let's give some away, dude. Let's do a little contest something. Let's do it. Actually, Inspector just sent me a bunch of gear and there were some diesel crosses in there. Yeah, that's part of it, dude. I'm going to get there. Yeah. And, uh, let's see other things. Um, you know, with the cabana being open to the public, it, it gives everybody a chance to come check it out and everybody can register and be a part of it, but I really like that. Even doing that. And we've added over a thousand members and stuff since we, you know, been open for three months now. Um, it still maintains like the old kind of cabana vibe. Everybody's being super respectful. You know, we don't really have any trolls. Um, if we did, like I don't really have, you know, tolerance, super high tolerance for Internet. No, I'm just, you know, delete it, move on. Yeah. Not going to be a big argument or scene about it. And, uh, that's what we've been trying to do and everybody, uh, everybody's liking it every day. Um, hearing from new people that, you know, I'm going to come back and check it out. Like, you know, last week I was having breakfast with cats. And, um, he, you know, he's like, he's got his own forum. He's got his own store. And that's the other thing. Everybody's got their own discords. Everybody's got. Yeah. Instagram. Everybody's got Facebook. Everybody's got. Half a dozen social media profiles that they have to maintain. And so we're just fighting for our space and we have to prove our value to, um, get everybody to come. But, uh, the old school people like we, we got them. And I think there's going to be a new appreciation for the old school and what they had and what they had to offer. Cause I think these exotics are kind of running their course right now. Everybody, everybody is kind of, I'm hearing gas and chem and diesel and everything that I like, everything that I like kind of making a resurgence. Yeah. Yeah. You know, and, uh, even hate. Yeah. Even haze, bro. Even haze. I don't want any haze, but think about it. You know, Phil, Phil Rojo had some killer haze crosses. I mean, this man had some killer shit. He probably still does. Let me fill this link, man. Let's get him in here. Yeah. Let's get Phil on here because this is the man that was in National Geographic. He was one of the, you know what? Honestly, he was one of the main reasons I went out to Colorado when I did. I really wanted to meet this dude. Um, who had done so much and made such an impact during those years in Colorado when he was really thriving. And I knew he was going big places. And like, I'm one of those guys where I really believe like attracts like it. If you want to be successful, surround yourself with people who think successful and are optimistic and taking themselves forward. And he was one of them, you know, and he always shared his time with me. Very respectful. Um, I have a lot of respect for that. Lots. Yeah. That's cool. Phil is awesome. And I don't know. Honestly, I can't even remember how I met Phil. It was through, through the forum somehow. But when I met him, uh, he was, he had a big warehouse over off a, I 70 in Denver. And I'd go over there. And I used to buy seat. I was buying seeds. Like, Oh yeah, dude. It's great. Yeah. I was buying seeds. No, it's not BHO money, bro. It was coming from somewhere. But, uh, I just want to interject. Curve used to give me crap when I wouldn't spend like at least six K a month on seeds. What are you doing with your life right now? Like what? And your money on seeds like that. But go ahead and continue. No one can ever say I haven't put my money where my mouth is when it comes. That's for damn sure. But I would buy seeds just to give them to Rojo. And so he could pop them. And there's big pops. And, uh, you know, he would let me store moms over there. And, you know, there's been, there's been some people who, you know, I don't really want to throw anyone under the bus, but, uh, it's been people have stolen a lot of genetics out of that facility that have gone on to start companies. Oh, sure. Yeah. And, uh, all of that. He's, he can go ahead and say Colin ethos. Yeah. Yeah. Egos. Egos. Egos. Egos genetics. Yeah. He, uh, you know, he worked over there for a while and he got some stuff. Then he ended up working over at my other buddy's, uh, facility new age medical and. Yeah. Got a ton of my stuff. Boom ethos seed collection was formed not long afterwards. Yeah. He's not well liked, bro. But Phil was always awesome because. He, he was the first person that I think he really recognized. He recognized in me at least that. Like I was about that seed life. Yeah, dude. Yeah. And one year from my birthday, he came over to my house and he popped up with a zip lock bag full of beans and they were all Tom Hill Hayes crosses. Yeah. Yeah. And, um, Boba Tom Hayes, bro. Yeah. Boba Tom Hayes, Skunk Valley Hayes. Um, I had so many. Lockhead Hayes. So many things in there. Yeah. I gave them away for years. He told me he was like, man, just, you know, I got it from you. Anybody who wants these, just, you know, get them in their hands. And I did that for years. I would do auctions to, you know, help raise money for various people on Instagram. Boom. I'm sending them 10, 20 seeds. Yeah. Or 10, 20 packs of seeds. Yeah. Um, one year for the cup, I gave a, I did these breeder bags and it was like 60 bags, 60 packs of seeds in them. I collected, I had a bunch of beans that obsolete, had set out a bunch of beans for me. Um, Yeah. I had a bunch of stuff from La Plata Labs. Yeah. He's a great dude too. Yeah. You know Joey. Yeah. Yeah. He's awesome. He's actually, Not far from me in Oklahoma here right now. Are you telling them I said, what's up, dude? Like he's always been really cool. I like, I will. And man, he's one of those dudes who I think is also super slept on because he was making beans and packaging up beans and kind of grind in on the underground state side scene. Like before most people were, man. Yeah. And, uh, he's got some great stuff, man. Yeah. He had a Durango OG, I think it was called. It was really good. I really had some white voodoo and some big white and lemon aliens and he had some good stuff back in the day. Yeah. Lots of respect for that dude. Yeah. He was a while he started getting really big, but I think he just kind of backed off a little bit from the scene and, uh, slowed down. But yeah, the respect still there definitely for him from, uh, I think he started doing, uh, some hemp stuff. And I know he was doing some stuff, uh, um, internationally as well. So good. He stays busy, man. Uh, he posted up some picture. He's one of those guys who can go away and you don't hear from them or see anything from them for like three or four years. And then he posts up some picture of like some mega greenhouse that's going 400 yards full of fucking. More than my ass. That's for fucking sure. Yeah. So he always stays with a project. He's a worker. Yeah, I did. That's cool. But yeah, so Phil would give me tons of stuff. When I went to the lion, um, Phil also hooked me up with a guy named Mike Finnelli. And, uh, he does a ton of, uh, um, like grow design. He'll get your room all set up. He was working with, uh, uh, man, kick myself. He, uh, these old controllers. What were the old controllers called? Before the troll masters, everybody had one of these. I can't remember what it was called, but, uh, he helped design those. And then he worked with a guy named Bo who owned chlorophyll up there in Denver, which was just like a nutrient, you know, just a little, uh, hydro shop. And he plugged me up with so many people that, um, just because I knew Phil took extra good care of me. Yeah. So I was getting the plug on nutrients. I was, I got the plug on the room design and the build out and stuff. I mean, these guys came down and they moved into the warehouse with me down in Colorado Springs. And we're like building this thing out 24, you know, around the clock. So they grind. And, uh, that just comes from his kind of his work mentality. Yeah, dude. I really think if you would have stuck with the black market scene, at least he would have been a much more on the CSI level and respect, you know what I mean? Um, but dip in a way, you know, a lot of people don't remember him as well. And I think his name deserves more respect and should be back out there. No, he's one of those guys too, who's always doing a breeding project. Exactly. Probably got like walk in freezers full of gear. I know I need to see that. I need to get up in there. I need to get my hands on it. Man, I've already been asking him, I was like, Hey, remember when you gave me all those beans? You should do something like that again. So, um, but man, Phil is awesome. He's probably one of my biggest. I mean, he's like somebody I actually looked up to in the weed like a mentor. Yeah. You know, he always did it big. And as I started getting into managing commercial facilities and, um, bigger projects and stuff like that, you realize like the undertaking that they actually are nasty. And then everybody, everybody can grow good weed, but can you do it at scale? Can you do it at scale? And growing it at scale is, uh, just bigger challenges, bigger risks, bigger losses, you know what I mean? Something goes wrong and, uh, you're four lighter. It's a lot easier to recover from, you know, a 40 light room, you know, with an issue. That's why you're looking at a bunch of bald guys right now. Yeah. Right. So yeah, and I don't think I probably would have had the confidence to do, uh, um, these bigger facilities. If I hadn't been able to spend the time asking questions and seeing Rojo's facilities and how the things that he was doing to, um, just make everything run smooth and just well-oiled machine. And that's what you got to have on a commercial level. Yeah. So I kind of got a question for you, Kirby. When we first met, you were curbside extracts, right? I was talking about some of that shit. I've always been curbside service ever since like middle school. And then, uh, and then I was curbside concentrates. I was always, I've always curbside service. Like my little brother gives me shit because I just do everything under a flag of curbside. Yeah. Always known as Kirby. Yeah. Yeah. So, uh, like, uh, you were the dude. I did. Back in the day, I got, uh, everyone started, my boy brought a five gallon bucket back from California and it had like honey oil in it, like BHO honey oil. We're talking a Home Depot five gallon bucket. I'd never seen anything like it. And I was just like, and nor had I smoked anything like it at the time either. Yeah. And I was just like, man, this is from BHO. This is like, I started doing all this research and on the cabana, there's a guy, OG legend. His name is Gray Wolf. Oh yeah. Yeah. If you've ever done any form of BHO extract, you know, I'm sure you've ran across some, something that led you to Gray Wolf at some point. Yeah. But he put me on game to this place back in the day called Glacier Tanks. And I want to say they were up in Oregon or Washington or somewhere northeast. And I started buying all these stainless steel tubes. And, uh, my dad owns a welding company and he's got a machine shop and stuff. And so like, when I had an idea, it was easy for me to execute like, oh, let's try this. Let's do that. And, uh, I would get these stainless steel tubes. And I had like 50 of them and three feet by an inch and a half. And you could pack them with a half pound of weed. And, um, I started ordering, um, end tane. And I was in Colorado. I'm pretty sure I was the first person. You had that license, right? That wanted end tane. Because when I was asking General Lair, which is like the biggest gas supplier out in Denver, across the country, like, man, I need some butane. And they were just for what? What could you possibly need? You know, a bottle of butane for. And, uh, they had to do some research to even find it to see if they could get in. And they ended up getting it from Texas. And I'd have to give them heads up. Um, when I need it. And then I started just telling them, I was like, here's your heads up. Like, I need it. Just keep shipping it up here. And like, you have me on a rotation. And so I had, I had quick connects and I just boom, turn my bottle of butane on, blast through a tube, fill it into a one gallon glass pitcher, pour it into a pie pan. And for a long time, I don't want to say a long time for a short time. I was getting more money doing 50, 50 splits with people than I was like on a regular crop. Someone would give me their crop and I was able to pay them more for their crop off of their 50%. Sure. Then they could even get selling 100% of it in flower. There was so damn much need for it at the time that market was an answer. And it was, there's not a lot of markets that I've hit at the right time where it's like, I got in like right at the right time. That was the right time. I wasn't one to, I was early. So not a lot of people had volume like I had. Yeah. Yeah. To this day, to this day, one of my best friends, he was out in Oakland. He was up on the hill 15 years ago. And he went out to one of Kirby's barbecues in Aurora. And when, when Curve had first built like the first closed roof and he was like, bro, even to this day, like my, my buddy in Cali will be like your boy, Kirby was like ahead of the curve ahead of everybody on the closed loop tech. Yeah. That's, that's the one thing I think you're pretty legendary for in my mind. Like when I think of Kirby, I think of all those like back trays, all that shit. Just never seen anybody do it so big at once. The closed loop tech to came from the forums. Yeah. And it all started, I can't, I can't remember who did it or the name of the, what even forum it was on. But it was some pressurized paint cans that I did my first closed loop out of. And I had a Harbor freight pressurized paint cans. And yeah. So I've done it every single way possible. Good ways and bad ways. So. Yeah. I did the bad ways early on, the open blasting and the fucking. And then it got to a point where it just, the science of it all outgrew me and these new guys with some of their closed loop techs and the things that they're doing to clean up the fats and the lipids and all, you know, all the things, it's amazing man. And one of my boys. I went the other way to rosin. Yeah. I went to rosin man. Breeze dried rosin bro. That's another Phil story. Another row house story is, I was going out. I was going to his warehouse and kind bill was working there doing the extracts. And they were telling me about this new thing that they had done, man. They're like, Oh man, we've invented live resin. And it's a, it's so good. And the tert profiles are this and it's just like, they started showing it to me and they're like telling me how to do it. And I was like, Oh, all you got to do is freeze it. And then just do it, do it the same way. You just got to freeze it before him. Like, yeah, I was like, well, fuck bro, I can do that. And so they were telling me to like, yeah, you got to, you got to get a cryo freezer and they're this expensive. I'm like, Oh shit, but they didn't even have the cryo freezer at the time. They were just telling me like they're going to get it. I wasn't even, I don't think I'd even started my car up from the parking lot before I had ordered a cryo freezer. And so for 500 bucks off eBay, man, I had a used cryo freezer shipped up here. And I started doing live resin and I taught my boy Lord rude boy how to blast and process material when we're at the lion. And he's one of those guys where it's just like, when the student becomes the master, because he just took it to a whole nother level. And he can do it all. He's a hash master. Can you real quick explain for me the definition of live resin? It's something I've never been able to. I know you were at the base of it. What is the true definition of live resin as it was originally meant to be? I mean, to me, it's just the preservation of the freshest Terps possible by freezing it as quickly as possible when you cut it down. I always assumed like they were taking the live plant still in the pot, like smashing it that way. And that's the only way I had no clue what it meant. Well, that's why you want the cryo freezer, because it gets colder faster. So you can cut your plant down and there's less wilting and things like that in the freezing process. How much of a difference does it make? It does make a difference because you get less condensation and you get less water buildup. But do the resins mature before you do that? Not if you're like literally cutting it down, putting it in a bag, getting it in the freezer. Does that make a difference to some degree? It's literally how fast you can do it. You don't want to cut it down, let your plant sit outside for an hour, two hours before it gets bagged up and put it in the freezer. It's like you want to chop it, get it in the bag, put it in the freezer, get it frozen. And that sounds like a forum argument already, though. You know someone would be like, no, bro, my shit's so dang, it doesn't matter. I'll leave it out for a day and it'll still make better hash than your shit. I think about it like with blueberry. A lot of the blueberries need to cure for a month before they get their blueberry turps back into the form. And I'm just wondering how different that would be with live resin and if it would be worth it to do with that. I think it's totally worth it to compare the differences between a live resin turp and a well cured turp. Yeah. Because they're going to be totally different. You know, if you're harvesting a plant on harvest day when you're cutting it down, it smells different than when it's smoke day after it's cured. Absolutely. Same principle with live resin. You're cutting it down with that turp profile that you're preserving at that moment in time. There was stuff like strawberry cream, though, that smelled like strawberry straight off the bush, bro. That would be perfect for live resin. Yeah. Oh man. That wouldn't fly. I had... Obsolete had sent me a bunch of his orange crosses when he had first made it. Orange juice bud. Yeah. The orange juice bud and I had, you know, the orange juice bud times sourdough, times ghost OG, times GSC. I can't even remember all of them, but that's what we were doing the dab bar down in Colorado Springs at the Lazy Lion. Yeah. That's kind of like what made us famous, man, was these live resin orange turps that we had down there because like people were kind of just getting into dabs and they would take a dab of, you know, some regular dab and be coffin and like... Oh, sure. It was almost a painful experience, man, but then like when people started like, you know, turps started coming through on dabs and, you know, the live resin and all of that, like it changed how people were smoking it. Especially with the orange juice, but that's just citrus as fuck from the jump. Undeniable flavor. It's one of those, you know, obsolete just posted up on Instagram that his orange apricot got voted like best turps. Yeah, they're still doing like the legend orange apricot stuff. Yeah. Yeah. And those turps definitely need to be preserved for sure, but unfortunately those original crosses, and I know OBS still has a few packs of the originals. I tried to get them off of them. And he's... Kicking down OBS. No, he needs to hold on to them. He needs to do something with them. But those turps, man, out of that batch, those were probably some of the best turps that's come out of a public seed release. And I don't even know like how public those were. I don't know if he really sold them or if he just kind of gave them. Healy and orange cookies was out there a bunch. Yeah. But man, probably some of the best turps that hit the market in a noticeable while. Yeah. Yeah, they were good, man. They were a real good owner. I just wanted to take a quick moment and thank everyone for showing up again Kirby and all the homies from the cabana. They're always amazing episodes. These guys are real passionate through seed collectors. And what they're doing at the cabana, we're really supportive of. Again, decanicabana.com is where you go to sign up. You can also go to riotseeds.com again to pick up our blueberry and cross stuff. There's multiple hybrids of the blueberry and cross. Also, for 4.20, which we're going to announce on 4.18, we got the high and lonesome's new mango haze drop. And we finally have Matt Elite's different ChemD i95 hybrids. I am so stoked. Been working on it for years. They are, in my opinion, the best Chem91 regular seeds where you can reliably pick out like amplified Chem91 turps along with a bunch of really true breeding through OG Kush seed lines and regular lines so you can make your own OG Kush seed lines with the males from this stuff. Matt Elite's stuff is above and beyond. It's why I've hounded him for years. There's only going to be a few packs available of each. He doesn't think there's going to be a lot of interest because he's missed the seed market the last, I don't know, four or five years. I know you'll love it. So please go check that out at riotseeds.com. We also have Riot Seeds Seed Co. Europe. We have Gurt by Seeds in Australia. And then, of course, Lifted Seeds in California. Takes credit card processing. Great guy. Carries Canaluminati members. Couldn't recommend him highly enough. We're going to try to get the blueberry encross out to Australia, possibly Europe, depending on how everything works out. Maybe Brazil. The Brazil drop is coming very soon. Very, very soon. We're going to have a bunch of our FEM stuff over there. And yeah, don't forget we have the diesel FEM stuff on the site. There's multiple different diesel crosses. Some of the skunkiest stuff you're going to find. We also have stuff from Sub Rob under Seed Trip in the FEM section. We have a Skank Dog and the SSS DH, which is his 98 Super Silver Hayes Cross 2 Sour Dub. Sour Dub is a dank fucking clone. If you miss it, you miss it. It's all there is. Again, I always say this. I can't reiterate it enough. When things sell out, people will ask me where it's at. They finally get into it, but their Johnny come lately, and it's gone. You have to go to other people's Seed collections and pay a premium. So go get it now. And if you're a member of our Patreon, you get an automatic 30% off on all the blueberry encross stuff that I'm doing. And yeah, we also have Goat Farm's new drop with some of his Blue Dream crosses, which are also available for 30% off if you're a part of our Patreon. So please go check that out. Join our Patreon. This weekend's UFC 300, and we're all watching it. So be there or be square. And with that, thanks for coming to the show. Thanks for watching it. The Cabana is really important to me. It's important to CSI. We want everyone to be a part of it. We want everyone to use it. And yeah, we plan on it being our sister website and in accomplishing the goals that we have set. We can only do this as a community, and it's a great community there. With that, lots of love, and we'll see you next week for part two. Want to sit at the table with a syndicate? Check out our Patreon and our link tree or description below. Our merch site is officially live. We have all sorts of shirts, hoodies and goodies to sort you out and shipping is super fast. And most importantly, the quality is top notch. I've been saving old designs for years for this purpose, so please check it out, syndicategear.com. We also have an underground syndicate discord where we get together and solve old strain history together daily. It's an amazing community of learning away from IG, and it's an amazing resource for old catalogs and knowledge. We hope you join our union of breeders and growers. Come check it out.