 host of Books, Books, Books, a live streaming series through Think Tech Hawaii on Oahu. Here is where we'll talk about books, about reading them, writing them, and everything in between. Tonight we have a special guest. He is a former award-winning legal affairs journalist, a former New York City attorney who now writes essays, short stories, and children's novels. His name is Peter Aronson. Welcome, Peter. Hello, Elaine. Nice to be here. Thank you. Thank you for being here. Your book tonight that we're discussing is Mandalay Hawks' Dilemma, the United States of Anthropocene. It is a mouthful, but then so is the topic. We're talking global warming and climate change, right? So how did you decide that you would write it as a children's novel? This is a pretty grappling subject. Well, it is, Elaine. So we have to go back about five, six, maybe seven years. I was practicing law, writing on the side, always looking for a bigger project. And I had two middle grade daughters at the time. They were, I think, 10 and 12, Mabel and Maisie. And they were reading Harry Potter and other dystopian-themed books. And that's all they wanted to read. And I thought, wouldn't it be nice if they read a book, an adventure book, about a real-world problem? That was my idea that was percolating in my mind. And so I began thinking, well, what are the big problems in the world? We've got world hunger. We've got other things. And then I thought, well, really global warming is the biggest problem in the world because that encompasses everything. So this was 2014. And I told my wife and I said, you know, I'm going to write a kid's book, a novel about kids fighting global warming. And at the time, Barack Obama was president. The world was moving in a pretty good direction in terms of trying to deal with the problem. Unfortunately, after that, the world went in many different directions, you know, through now we're in a third presidential administration. So there's been a lot of ups and downs. But I decided at the time to just pursue this topic. It was the most important topic. And I'm glad I did. I really am. Well, I'm glad you did too. I read the book. And I also read the Kirkus Review, which said a scathing work and an essential blueprint for youth battling climate change. I have to agree with that. It was a pretty epic journey that these children went on to battle climate change in the midst of the adults who had failed them or had failed the world actually. It was a real adult problem, but it was put on the shoulders of the youth of a generation later. Not unlike it's being done today. Would you like to talk about that? Sure. Well, you know, as we know today, most of the youth movements are led by 20 year olds, 25 year olds. We don't have, you know, as in my book, we have middle graders. So, you know, as I was writing the book, researching and writing it, I was dealing with a shifting events when, when I began writing the book, Greta Thunberg didn't exist or she didn't exist in the public eye. And of course, we know what an amazing young woman she is and as well as many of the people working with her. So I was encountering this issue of writing a book about kids fighting global war. It's happening in the real world. So I decided to sort of shift my focus a little bit because I saw that when they were doing incredible things, it wasn't quite enough. So I shifted my focus to young kids, 12, 13, 14 year olds fighting global warming, which I actually think if that movement were to start, I think actually that possibly could shift things today. So I was trying to write about something that was, I was making up in my mind was something that I also truly believe in, younger kids getting into the fight. Yes. Did writing this novel present special challenges for you? Well, just to pick off from where I was, when I was just talking about immense challenges, because the picture, the real world picture was changing right in front of my eyes. You know, there wasn't a Greta Thunberg before it started, then there was. Okay. Barack Obama was president. We're moving in a good direction. And then Donald Trump became president and we're moving in the opposite direction. Now we're Biden and we're stuck in the middle here. So at some point, I just said, I just threw up my hands. I said, I've got to finish this book. I'm going to do the best I can with the world events. And you know, the book is a novel. So it sort of stands as a metaphor for what's going on in the real world. I make up stuff in the book, like in any novel. But it stands for a metaphor that we do have this immense problem, not nearly enough is being done to stop it. So who's going to step into the void? That's the question. Right. Did you have your daughters in mind when you were writing this? I don't want to get personal at all, but I'm just wondering if you had your daughters in mind or, you know, their group of friends. I mean, because you're trying to educate them about a major problem that as you bring it out in the story, outlines everything that we're all going to be facing. Now you put your story in 2030. And that is eight years from now. It's not that far, you're right. Actually, it was originally set in 2025 because I began the book really writing it in earnest in 2015. And then I was like, keep going forward. The time kept moving on. I thought, well, the book can't be set in 2020. That's too close to the present. So I shipped it in five years, five years future. So you asked me about my daughters. Well, I always think about my daughters. They are my inspiration for everything I do. And I love them dearly, like a father, right? And so when I'm writing about kids, I'm thinking about them, not so much thinking about what they would do, but I'm just thinking about what I think kids should do. And maybe if the kids don't listen to adults, what kind of kids they would be and really pushing. So they're always inspiring me for a lot of my work. Yes. Fantastic. I wonder, because this book is for middle grade children. Yes. You can read for the listeners who are adults. Sure. Section out of your book. So they can have an idea of how you're presenting this rather complex subject to a middle grade reader. Yeah, I'm happy to. I just want to give a little bit of just two second background here where we are in the book. It's about a third way through the book. Mandalay and her friends are studying hard to learn the subject so they can, you know, make an impact. And Mandalay is a single child and her father is a single father. So it's just the two of them and they're very close. But now she has to withdraw from him because she feels this is a kid's problem, which needs a kid's solution and she can't tell him what she's doing. Okay. So and she, they met with journalists to try and get them to write about it. And so that's, so now it's the next day. So I'll read for a few minutes. Mandalay got up early the next day and went online to see if Johnny had written anything about them. She scanned the Sunday day news website on her dad's mind machine looking for something about their plan to shake the powers that be. She clicked through the stories. Nothing, not a word. Shart, a frustrated Mandalay said softly, mostly to herself. What did you say darling? Her dad asked alarmed. Dad, come on, give me a break. A frustrated Mandalay shot back. I said, Shart, S-H-A-R-T. I remember, I'm a teenager, not a kid. Mandalay had gone from a motor mouth. A kid who would tell her dad almost anything in years past to a frustrated and intense 14 year old with the Save the World project who had clammed up, shut her trap because her dad was showing way too much tough love. Then to top it off, her dad just blurted out Mandalay. Do you have to plan the details? This is not some fantastic novel or moving where Harry Potter raves a magic wand and saves the planet. He said this because he sensed even though Mandalay had not spelled it out that Mandalay and her buds were nearing some kind of event, something without a clue or a plan. They not thought about obtaining a permit to hold the rally, not plan any of the details for large gathering which is a loudspeaker system or portable toilets. What if a kid has to go to the bathroom Tom Hawk finally said, dad, Mandalay shot back with her own frustration. She shook her head and took a deep noticeable every breath. Dad, you know I love you so much. I hate it when we argue or fight but I just have to do what I have to do. Mandalay paused and moved closer to dad and looked him straight in the eye because dad, if I think too much, if Goode, Jasmine and I think, sweat and plan every little fucking, clunky, stupid detail, we'll defeat ourselves before we start. Do you know why dad, Tom Hawk hated when his daughter acted recklessly as she was but he did love her intensely. You can never deny that. No, Mandalay, I don't know why because dad, we're just winning it. We're going to have an encounter with the powers that be the mayor, the governor, whoever shows up. But beyond that, we have no money and we're doing it without any adult help. We focus all of our time on studying the science of global warming. We know it's cold, pardon the pun. She smirked for a split second then resumed and getting the word out about our encounter. We got that covered. The word is out, trust me. Lots of kids say they're coming. Why don't you tell me exactly what you're planning because you'll think we're crazy. That's why. But I'm your father. Sorry, this is a kid's thing. We have to be on our own. We have to do it solo and we have to be different. Mandalay's dad took a deep frustrated breath and shook his head in despair. And this is the reason why dad because we're not doing what's already been done. Those climate strikes and huge protest rallies with all those millions of kids and talking heads years ago, they all failed. All the scientists, all the environmentalists and all those amazing kids who did a great job about 10 years ago, they all failed. We have to do something different, much different. She paused for a few seconds, took a noticeable breath. It's 99 degrees in dimmer, bummer summer. We're swimming year-round in the Hudson River. Southern climate refugees are flooding into New York and the city now is housed like Venice. The Bronx, it doesn't exist anymore. And the southern part of Manhattan is underwater. In 20 years, the entire city may be underwater. And this is just New York. What about the rest of the country, the rest of the world? We're living crazy every day. What has been done to stop global warming? Treaties and laws coming go like clouds blowing in the wind. The government denies man-made climate change who just doesn't do enough to stop it. Rallys are how the movements fizzle out. Companies just want to make money because they don't care. If we continue down this path, half the world will either be starving to death or be forced to migrate. Worst in our past will look like dart-froing contests compared to what's coming in the future. All this why? Because climate change is rampaging, galloping across our earth. So I'm going to sweat a lot, but I'm not going to sweat the details. And we're not repeating what came before us. Mainly it said what you had to say. I mainly had listened and heard. I'm sorry, and Tom Holk had listened and heard what he had to hear from his daughter. Despite his fear of her failing, of her getting in trouble, he believed that her, believed in his wild, very smart, articulate and precocious 14-year-old daughter. He really did. And she believed in herself. Sweetheart, you heard this even crazier weather coming down in the next 24 hours, the day of your event, right? Your father had to ask, it could be kind of serious. Yes, of course that, I know. We'll deal with it. She said, lying, because she did not check the weather report. She was just too busy studying and handing out flyers. She felt ready for the encounter the next day. That was a good excerpt to read, because you bring up three very critical things in that section. One, the fact that the children and she as the leader of this group that she's going to collect along the way, basically, they're not prepared, right? They're going to try to let things work out on their own. They'll figure them out as they go along. And you know, it's kind of like how kids are sometimes, right? Right. Well, I try to make it as realistic as I could within a novel. So, you know, studying they can do and they can really learn the material. They didn't have any money. They didn't want to ask parents or adults for help. So I just sort of like, you know, when you're writing a novel, as you know, sometimes you just sort of go with the flow of your consciousness and that consciousness, just to get this point, frankly, just felt right within the context of the book. Well, what worked well was the fact that Mandalay had such a strong sense of mission. And typically around that age, the ideology of things is greater than the ability of the world knowledge that they have. Now, the world knowledge of the climate change because obviously they were very versed on that by this point. But I mean, in the facts of how they were going to actually get from New York City to, you know, to the Washington on foot. And what about the bathroom and all of this, but it's all addressed. And I'm not going to give away any reveals. So leave that at that. The other one was the second thing was you brought up a lot of words I had not heard before. And Anthropocene is one. I mean, you know, I could be down by the Latin root. But so why don't you explain what Anthropocene is, and then shard, dumber bummer summer. Or worse order. So Hey, it cracked with a K. Right, exactly. So dumber bummer summer just made up. So I, you know, I want to just, could I just suggest one thing that you said a moment ago about the whole idea of not preparing for the rally. So when I was thinking about this book, actual rallies were going on around the world. You know, we had climate strikes, we had rallies in Washington and New York and overseas. And so I couldn't write what was going on. I had to come up with something different. And again, just felt right that younger kids would feel we're playing less, we're playing the details less, that's the thing. So dumber bummer summers. I just came up with that. I wanted to come up with something that explain, you know, in my book, it's 90 degrees in winter. Okay. And people are swimming in the Hudson, that cleaned out Hudson in December. So I just again, you know, your, your creative mind, your novelist mind just takes over and I thought of dumber bummer summer and rhymed, rhymed a little bit. So that was that. You asked about crap. I just wanted to come up with an acronym that was kidlike, you know, kids revolt against adult power. And crap, kids love to use psychological humor or things in that direction. So that was that. Anthropocene is, you know, Greek, you know, Anthros is Greek for human. And we're in the human period of time, human period of time in which we are creating the change. Okay. Before we go back millions of years, before there were humans, we weren't creating the change. Other biological matters were creating change. So we are now in the human period of time. And in the last 250 years, as my book explains, the humans have begun to destroy the planet. So yes. And thank you for the correction on Greek versus Latin, like, you know, that same issue every time somebody says octopus, you know, octopus is an octopi. So yeah, difference. Mandalay does not do this alone, of course. She's got two hands who are by her side to the whole thing. And I especially love Goetgeberg. He created a graph. And I pull that up. And I want you to explain it because this was in the book. It was in the novel. And I want to know what this was based on, what research it was based on, and how this came about. Is it fictitious? Or is there some fact to this? Well, it's partially based on fact and partially fiction because it goes into the future. So first of all, I want to tell you, it's handwritten, because Goet, just to give a little background for the viewers, Goet does not involve himself at all with technology. He put all that literally in the dumpster, and he uses pen to paper, no phones, no computers, no nothing. That's his style. Didn't they? They made a pact. They made a pact. And even in the book, unless there was an emergency, no devices, no electronic devices were used. Again, 20, 30 devices are a little different than what we have today. But they were all shelved for the most part during the book. One more time. You called something a dweeb. But now today, a dweeb means something else. Well, a dweeb is just a more modernized version of an iPad, just a thinner device. I just tried to move things 10 years in the future. We don't have regular phones anymore, but I won't give that detail away. To go to your question about remind me where we were. We were talking about the graph. I want to know what's fictitious. Yeah. Okay. Well, the graph talks about the emissions into the atmosphere. Okay. And how hot it's going to get. We all read about it. If you read about global warming, we read that we can't go above 1.5 degrees Celsius warmer than it was before we began warming the planet. That seems to be the magic number. We're now like 1.1. And Celsius not. They always use Celsius because I think that's used by more people. We obviously use Fahrenheit in America. Anyway, so the graph projects into the future. And it shows that the warming has increased by like three to four degrees Fahrenheit, which would be a disaster. Okay. So I'm predicting disaster in 2030. Again, it's a novel. Okay. I'm trying to use as a metaphor for the real world and to sort of shake things up. So it's a projection of emissions and temperature into the future. Well, your book has pages of research and articles and books that you read yourself to support all of this information. So it is very credible. And the things that you say, the third thing we never got to the third thing that that section you read was the setting that you place us. For instance, like in New York City, where the Hudson is now a series of rivers throughout the entire area. You know, the heat is excruciating. I can't even imagine. It's actually food become scarce. You know, and it paints a very dismal picture that adults have, have indeed failed. And they have failed that generation that has to come up and fix the problem, hopefully. Yeah. Well, you know, I tried to paint a picture that was visual. Okay. It's a mix of fact and fiction. Okay. I don't think New York City in 2030 is actually going to be carved with canals like Venice. But I just, you know, I just imagine I know we have a, we have a flooding problem in New York City when a hurricane hit here six or eight years ago. My old office, the water in lower Broadway came right up to the door of the building where my office. Okay, now the water receded. But at some point, the water is going to, maybe it won't recede. Okay. But I wanted to mention something that I think is very important. So, well, I'm mix, mix fact and fiction. What is fact is that we're really heading towards towards a disaster. The UN issued a report just a few weeks ago, and I can read to you. Can I read to you a sentence? Yes, almost at a time. And I still have more questions for you. Go ahead. I'm sorry. I'm sorry. Well, I'll be very quick. It says here that the, this is the, this is the last sentence in this UN report. The cumulative scientific evidence is unequivocal. Climate change is a threat to human well being and planetary health. Any further delay in concerted anticipatory global action on adaptation and mitigation will miss a brief and rapidly closing window of opportunity to secure a livable and sustainable future for all. So they're saying it's a disastrous way to happen unless we act right away. It is pending. And you did point out Zayton, Adorama Zayton traveling around on his canoe during Hurricane, after Hurricane Katrina hit. So there's an example there. I wonder if you saw the latest IEA, the International Energy Agencies, 10 point how to save on oil because of oil prices now going up due to not only Ukraine, but also climate change and all that. Only because we're out of time. I'm just going to skip all that. I just wanted to get that out there. What do you have something wonderful coming up? I do. I've just written a trilogy of soccer novels also for middle graders with a fantastic former soccer star, Shep Messing. He was a U.S. Olympian. We've collaborated on these three books. The trilogy is finished, and we're just polishing and getting ready to move them into the marketplace. So we're really excited about those books. They should be out there hopefully in 2023. Yes. And Messing was part of the Israeli, no, the Pakistan attack during the Olympics. When the Palestinians, he was on the U.S., he was on the U.S. Olympic team when the Palestinians, yes, in Munich. Along with Mark Spitz and I think 12 other athletes, I think it was, that needed to go into protective custody under protective care because of what was happening. Yes. What would you like to leave readers with this book about Mandalay's hot dilemma? Okay. Well, I'm just going to leave you with a very simple thought. This is really a simple one, and I don't understand why it hasn't been implemented. And that is for kids starting with kindergarten all the way through school, including in college, while they're all not studying the impact of global warming. It should be a subject like English, math, science, history, global warming. It's more important than all of those subjects, because it's impacting our world every day, and we need to learn about it so we can come up with solutions. Teachers need to be trained, and students need to be taught about this essential subject. I agree 100% with you. Sorry. Peter, I was going to say your books can be found where, I was going to just say it for you, but I'm going to leave it for you. Amazon is the best place, also, if you're a librarian or a teacher, Ingram Spark. Ingram Spark as well. Very good. My books can also be found on Amazon. I'm going to put that out there. In closing, Peter, I want to thank you for being here with me today. I want to thank the technicians, Michael, and the staff of ThinkTechKawaii. Jay Fidel, our producer. We can't go anywhere without him, or especially the viewers who are watching, and mainly our underwriters. Thank you so very much. Peter, it was a joy talking to you. I wish we'd had more time. I really do. So much to talk about when it comes to climate change and writing books and writing for children, because they are the future, right? They are the future there, and whatever problems we've created, we've left for them to fix. We'll be in actual lives with them. Yes. Thank you to everyone. Mahalo, and we'll see you next time. Thank you so much for watching ThinkTechKawaii. If you like what we do, please like us and click the subscribe button on YouTube and the follow button on Vimeo. You can also follow us on Facebook, Instagram, Twitter, and LinkedIn, and donate to us at ThinkTechKawaii.com. Mahalo.