 Call the order. Welcome everybody to the March 9th edition of the month. So your planning commission First order of business is to approve the agenda There will be no minutes on five. I'm trying to figure out why the minutes are Missing so okay, but I checked the online and we don't have them. Okay, so strike number five Yeah opposition to approval of the minutes with the omission of five Nope passed by an endless consent Next comments from the chair. I have none The fourth is general business comments from the public. There is no members of the public here We will move past that Brings us straight to number six Answer any questions on the final strikeout copies and draft map of the design review district for public hearing on On the clinic commission hearing on March 23rd So I didn't expect that we would have a lot of discussion about this I mostly just wanted to make it available and see if people had questions predominantly What Meredith and I did was we went through a final proofread of things and found a couple of inconsistencies So it looks like there's a lot of Changes, but there really is very little change of Intent or content and some of the primary changes we had were We had an inconsistency on Upfront it said if you are Making in-kind repairs Then you are exempt From design review and then later on it would talk about Evaluating standards for these types of repairs and so we had a question of whether those should be Exempt or not and what we decided Working was just to go and take them out of the exemptions and make them administrative permits And so really we really can't evaluate whether or not something meets it once it's exempt so the easier thing to do is to go through and say if you're going to and then we also had a question so You want to replace these windows and you're going to replace them in-kind in other words. I'm going to replace them with wooden windows Is that you know that that automatically becomes an exempt activity So as long as you're replacing with wooden windows and the question is is that what we want is that what we're expecting If you have wooden clabberts on the side of your house and you want to take those wooden clabberts off and replace them with wooden clabberts You're losing Architectural integrity or historic materials But you're you are replacing them in-kind so those were the questions that Meredith and I were kind of kicking around was okay Should this be exempt? Should it's not be exempt and what we said was if you're going to take things out and replace them in-kind for example an old window then It it will be an administrative permit But that can be you know that can be approved it doesn't have to go to hearing so as long as you replace a window You know, maybe it's a historic window as long as it's replaced in-kind in other words with another wooden window And but because it's administrative we can go through and make sure it's got the proper That's what it was gonna. Yeah, make sure it's got the proper light divisions that's a two over one so We can Relationship how far is it in set in or set out from the building frame? We can go through and make those evaluations because of the administrative permit. So the advantage of that is a lot of times if you can make Make the things you want to have happen make them easy for people Developers are more likely to choose the easy route So if we go through and say hey if you do that in-kind We will review it and it can be an administrative permit if you want to replace that with a fiberglass or a composite window You've got to go to the DRC and then they can decide whether or not, but if you're replacing things in-kind then We can do it and so that was the idea was and so it really didn't change the intent We think that was the intent all along But by kind of taking it out of the exempt pile because it was talked about in the exempt pile as exempt and then talked About with regulations later on we kind of had to fix that inconsistency and that's how we Fixed it was to go through and move it to an administrative permit rather than an exception Mike if it started out if it was originally a single glazed window and you wanted to replace it with a double glazed Would you still consider that in kind? We were Going to be considering that as in-kind Okay, all right. I'm just curious because yeah, you'd hate for them to have to go to the DRB even though In the added to because we're already one extra layer of glass But it looks like the same way. Yeah, but we went through a number of those little things. There are a few things that shifted around Where they were located? So this is the final Giraffe this will be the one that's going to be reviewed at the public hearing on the 23rd so two weeks from now we've worn the public hearing another public hearing for this So the red and and the other piece that was in there is a part of that So you can replace those windows you can replace roofing you can replace siding the only thing is Provided it does not destroy character defining features and we defined what character defining features are so in other words If there was a let's say a stained glass vestibule window We may go through and say yeah, you can You can replace those other windows this one is a character defining feature. It's it's really unique It's part of this building that it has this So they're apart like page nine has a little bit of the character defining feature and so that's where that was the other Other thing we should mention is that it wasn't that you could replace anything like if you wanted to replace roofing As long as you're replacing with this with a like material That's fine the only time that becomes an issue is if there's if it's gonna impact character defining feature so so that was as I said we We cleaned up a few places where it replicated things in other parts like demolition Limitations of Development and 4413 so those are a couple of places where we said look it's already talked about in other places You don't want to say it twice in the but in the bylaws you really only want to say things once so We had a couple of those Little things that we cleaned up, you know having rules that say the outdoor lighting has to meet the rules of 3204 Well, it already has to meet the requirements of 3204 so Those types of things so that was unless you guys want to go through these on a more careful detailed Point we were Asked we probably talked about this before but I'm page 10 It's talking about architectural features Me taken out on historic buildings because it's already part of this section, right? Yes, so entire section is on historic buildings. Oh, yeah, okay So why was The Basically the guts of architectural features struck out. This is Rowan over six one So it was arcade that what we did was The architectural features is already defined in In back so we it's so it's going to read now Architectural or character defining features prevailing on the existing building shall be considered in the alteration of a building Shall be considered Yeah, and that was the language that was already there before Because these were designers you thought that it was better not to enumerate them Yes Because it's defined later on and we didn't want to define it differently. So, right That was one of the things we're just trying to avoid Yeah, see if you look down at the bottom of page 10 There was a rule door door placement appearance materials in size shall be preserved on primary facades But at the start it already had exempted those So we had this inconsistency so we just kind of had to pull things together to so windows and doors that are not character defining Maybe replaced but such replacements must be compatible with the historic building style material and architectural features But that's now an administrative permit Okay So the red strikeouts happened after the public hearing after the public hearing Yes, and the blues are additions and the greens are moved in some words were changed because they didn't have definitions like historic building material So we just went to character defining materials So that way because we have a definition for that. So we did some adjusting so that way we were more consistent in our wording So again, these aren't really things that maybe technically change the the meaning but from an administrative standpoint if you've got words that Are not defined You might as well use words that are defined So so is that the reason to take out ADA design principles It was off that It's already going to be involved in other development in in other requirements in the regulations So that's a part of access as a part of your site plan requirements. You're going to be meeting those requirements Seemed a better place to put them over there. Yeah, and there isn't any there aren't any specific design review standards there So we might as well just you know if there was an additional level of Requirement then we could put it in there But if the requirement is no different than what you have to meet anyways And we also sent around in the email which I didn't print out were the changes to the rest of the unified development regulations Which were pretty Really benign Because we're change making changes here some of the references and some of the lines and other things especially in like this DRC procedures We just had to go and acknowledge that the administrative officer had some authorizations It's just to see and then define terms character defining materials Materials comma, I think all the others are that way and this was the final map There's any change any changes from when we last talked we had talked about what possible things to change And we didn't make any changes except for a little thing on Hubbard Street Goes about it. So we've got the final map There and these are all online for anyone who wants to download them from the Like you remind me why We don't have any rules at this point We don't have any any standards or any maps and I mean, that's a that's a really Pretty much the definition of what the JM golf Decision says is you if you're going to regulate something especially scenic or view sheds or vistas You can't just go and say we're going to protect scenic views You got to say what the scenic views are where they use from And so I think we can have And I think we do still include views of the dome But we don't have views generally and so we'll add those we'll add those Regulations back in once we do a study that goes through and says these are the views we want to protect Yeah, we need to be more specific. It's kind of like protecting open space, you know is protecting open space a Field or is protecting open space a bunch of trees because basically if you're protecting open space then anything not developed is Yeah Protected and you can't develop anymore Yeah So usually you got to go through and define what your views are that you want to protect anything else So this will be presented This will be the public hearing on the 23rd two weeks from today My trip to work And if anyone has questions anyone in the public or anyone around here has questions Can we shoot me emails? for the design review hearing and After this one it would go to if we approve it on the 23rd it'll go to city council And there will be another hearing with another opportunity public comment Okay, next is review of the draft aspirations and goals of the implementation strategy for economic development chapter So I didn't print out more economic development chapters. Do you want me to go for one out? Yeah, I'm sorry. I brought the wrong set of materials. I couldn't find it digitally either. Yeah I was hoping that I could it is short, right? Okay. Well, I can go print it out real quick. Yeah, and also Sorry, I did print out some transportation ones They're gonna be having a meeting tomorrow night to talk about aspirations and goals Before they work on strategy. So I figured I'd give you guys the heads up before they were had Let me go print out a couple economic. Thank you Thank you Yeah So I guess one of the first questions Was whether I mean we've we've been calling it economic development the city council has goals and they've Couched theirs in the term community prosperity. So I don't know if there's a preference for I don't think it makes a difference, but There's a thought we can always adjust this to be the chapter name is community prosperity and kind of build off that We have a development corporation, right? Yes My hope would be by the end we it's not structured around Like any so I guess my point is I don't know. Oh, okay. Yeah, how would you envision it? hmm, things structured around what that let's say There's like three And there are just components of all of these things Like when you read through these I'm sure they come up in other sections as well, right? So you're hoping to sort of tie it to it's but I mean, that's fine I was just curious like So we can as I said that was just one question that came out as I was looking through things The goals We had a we went through a lot when I was working with Laura who is the MDC director before To try to come up with some way of Capturing the aspiration and it turned out to be you know a little bit long. It's the Sentence plus plus the five bullets because we were just you know economic development means different things to different people So what did we want to see what's our future vision? You know robust economy strong job market living wages What rich quality of life and this would be accomplished through Educated work trained workforce flexible and efficient building stock managed by responsible owners and commercial landlords Business economic climate that encourages and supports businesses a strong sense of place quality built environment ample supply of necessary Utilities services and a high quality and affordable place to live for employees So those would be the five things that we would break into different goals and then break down further into strategies That was kind of where we ended up it was and then and then she left after we kind of got things going so we hadn't fully fleshed out each one of the Basically five sets of goals. There's a set of goals to maintain an educated and trained workforce It was felt that we haven't educated and trained workforce, so we really look at maintaining that And what would be the pieces that we would do to do that? The next goal was to improve our building stocks to make it more flexible and efficient well-constructed thought was A building stock is old It's not necessarily There to maintain its current condition, but we do need to make improvements Goal C to maintain and enhance the success of local businesses through attention expansion programs as well as supportive startups and entrepreneurs So the thought would we do a good job? We've got a lot of strong local businesses, but we need to You know you want to maintain that? They they felt or at least Laura felt it the need to improve our local business and economic climate Maintain and improve the sense of place quality of public built environment and to improve the quality of affordability of Montpellier's a place to live and work so a Couple of places to improve a couple of places to maintain or continue So remembering our goals are supposed to be Reflecting a status kind of a status update are we looking to maintain something are we looking to improve something? Are we looking to transform something so it's not there's no transformative in here It's really maintained and evolved and then we get into the strategies underneath that And how to do each one of those goals? I don't know if people had any thoughts either on the aspiration that we had come up with it's I had worked on this and in a number of different ways of trying to structure it we had Five aspirations, you know one for each one of these and we were kind of like it's just not working So we kind of pulled it together into one because there kind of was a theme of the robust economy strong job market livable wages That type of stuff, but these other pieces kind of get to those You know how we do that Yeah, I mean yeah, so basically eliminate the This will be accomplished through Stuff It doesn't follow the format of the other ones because usually we try to have goals that are Parced from the aspiration This would just maintain that consistency And then again as I said she Unfortunately left she was a really good person to work with really good partner on this But I think we got a number of good pieces in here I was going through after our last meeting and before this one I was going through and just I was handwriting in Priorities and weather a couple of these strategies when you do but I guess well if we get through the Aspirations and goals, then I'll go through what my comments were on the strategies. I thought I thought the goals and aspirations were We're good, but I'm always willing to On the ass great changes On the aspiration I like that there's a mention of a diverse Sustains of diverse community, but I wonder if we need of all ages That feels like it's caveatting like we only care about age of diversity We just dump of all ages or perhaps expand upon it But then I worried if we tried to expand upon it Let's whoever's lost whoever's lost out gets Of all ages seems a little unnecessary to me So there's one benchmark here for goal see to include benchmarks for other The other goals. Yeah, they never they never came up with benchmarks We tried to draw them out of the EDSP and most of the EDSP once fell into that goal see To add 20 new establishments The increased meals receipts So a little bit of history on the on the MDC for members of the public and members here the MDC and the eat the so the economic development strategic plan was adopted in 2016 Maybe 16 or 17 and then the Montpelier Development Corp was created after that and So what the economic development strategic plan said was The city needed to invest $100,000 a year for five years And that that money would go to support the MDC and the director and the director's job Was to grow the grand list grow our tax bases and grow the revenues coming in such that after five years We are basically taking in more than $500,000 in new tax revenue And therefore it would justify continuing to have an MDC That's a little bit of the philosophy behind what was going on So some of these goals you see in here are targeting meals and rooms receipts will go up by 30 percent Rooms and meals receipts will go up 42 percent one of the primary goals of the economic development strategic plan was and is the construction of the hotel and So this was back before the hotel was on the drawing board. It was We didn't have a location for the hotel We didn't know where one would go but their job was going to be to find a location Because the market analysis said that we are deficient and really could support another large-scale hotel So that was their goal. The advantage of the hotel is they're usually very good generators of tax revenue from a standpoint of property taxes, but they because we are a community that has The meals and rooms tax we get 1% meals and rooms tax. So we get those added revenues so Getting another hotel means generating a lot more revenues for our coffers So that's their big goal is to make sure we can get that hotel built That hasn't happened yet But that's so that's a little bit of where they're at so when you see these things of trying to increase how in the world that they can increase meals and rooms by 32 percent and and The other ones by 42 percent while that's just mostly from by getting a hotel and more people in the downtown It's missing in this Seems like maybe implicit but It's actually increasing the value So that was it that was there was a question that was presented to MDC And to the city council and one of them is and that it basically is what is your what's your metric? How are we going to measure the success? How does the economic? the MDC director know if they've been successful because you can Grow the grand list without creating any jobs or new businesses You can create new jobs and businesses without growing the grand list. You can you know, there's a lot of things we could For lack of a term say the GDP you could grow the GDP You have the same number of employees the same number of buildings. We haven't invested in our buildings We haven't grown the grand list But each business is doing 30% better business and therefore generating more for GDP. So, you know, what's our metric? What is what is success in Montpelier from an economic development standpoint and that was a hard thing for Laura and Folks to figure out and to get out of the city council because you know, what's our goal? Is it to get more businesses is it to grow the grand list because the tools? Like tax stabilization the policies we we have tax stabilization But what should those policies within the tax stabilization? Support if we want to grow the grand list and we really should be having tax stabilization That says if you grow the grand list will give you a tax stabilization if it's creating livable wage jobs Then we should say we'll give you a tax stabilization if you create livable wage jobs. So you want to go in So what's what's the metric and and believe it or not the growing the grand list didn't come up And that's why it's not in here. That's not to say I wouldn't have pushed for that. Yeah, I mean Idea that is one or the other Isn't it doesn't make sense to me and all of these things are basically trying to target increasing It's it's maybe seems like a crude or unromantic way of putting it but increasing the value of our buildings like making our It's literally increasing the value of our community And I think adding to that Looking at the the input like our how much are we spending in terms of public services versus? How much are we returning on on our grand list? So basically improving the yield of using our space more efficiently, right? so targeting those under under utilized areas, you know like that the pit or Just probably quite a few of them in town and getting a better Increasing I guess that We're going to measure it like the grand list in terms of with regard to the amount of public services we provide I'm sure there's the I'm happy to use the grand list as a metric and I think Absent a MDC director which we don't have right now I mean we may be more the planning commission may be more in the driver's seat of deciding what our metrics are going to be It just a little bit of perspective for some some things that Typically communities would look for that might not be appropriate for Montpelier Growing the number of jobs. I know we've got in here growing the number of jobs But Montpelier is actually the second highest jobs per capita in the state of Vermont We have a lot of jobs And I think the what Bill had told me was only Williston has more Jobs per capita and what that means is just you know, we've got a population of 8,000 and probably 4,000 people in the workforce 3,000-4,000 in the workforce, but we've got 9,000 jobs because of commuters because of the people that commute in so the question is Do we really need more jobs in Montpelier? I mean we're you know, we're Basically the more jobs that we create in Montpelier is Just more commuters that are driving it. We don't we need to create more population Need to create more population, you know, that's the issue. We may have more people live here So that way we have less commuters, but so we need more housing. Yeah, it's our goal is our goal more really more jobs Should we be benchmarking our the MDC and these other folks are creating more jobs? Here in Montpelier Or should it be that's great if the jobs are created, but we're not That's not what we're driving towards More state jobs Yeah, and we can be more specific about which one that happens and historically we haven't really been growing private sector jobs That was part of what the EDSP was looking at in our economic development person who came in Really felt that was a problem and we should be growing more local jobs But from 2008 or 2009 2009 to 2014. I think we had a 10 private sector jobs You know, obviously there's some that came from that left, but pretty much it was a wash Then we had a bump up in the number of state jobs because of Irene and then a bump down in the number of state jobs Once the repairs to Waterbury were done So we kind of had this bump up and down and then we've had some modest increase in private sector jobs, but By and large we're still right around where we were Maybe we've gained 80 jobs in the next five years 2014 to 19. So Is that good I think it's good we created some jobs, but what about the population housing was one of the keys that's why it actually is you know the In there is a high quality affordable place to live but really that comes out to building more housing As an economic development goal, and I think if you talk to city council, they would probably agree Housing they see housing as economic development Should it be stronger in here then we could I mean certainly these I made five bullets And we could certainly move these bullets around if we wanted to move them up move them down In in where we see I didn't rank them as anything more than just those were the five that came out I didn't think educated workforce is more important than Ranked them move them up put this as a primary Seems like we may have a lot of jobs, but the number of people who are coming here as commuters Are they helping our businesses downtown is the biggest question? Are they adding to business? Utilization, and I don't see that and I think it depends where so the most recent job additions Caledonia spirits yeah the armory building which is Passed the roundabout as you start heading out towards Agway that first the first right. There's that's the old armory What was what did that the Conner put in a? There's a medical building facility that's in that location there So we've added some jobs in there again good paying jobs But again as you start to look at where these new buildings are located It's not like somebody has come into the downtown and dropped in a another insurance company with 150 people with good paying jobs who are going to walk out and buy lunch every day and walk over to the Local store and pick something up on the way home Predominantly where we've been locating new businesses is is at our peripheries Which can't be that unexpected considering how densely we're built built up in the downtown a lot of this stuff That happens downtown are a lot of smaller Units you know did small office space those types of things rented out to lobbyists and lawyers and and those folks and They being downtown have more more of an opportunity to pay for those But they also you know on the other side of the coin They're also adding to the number of cars that have to come downtown because if we had more of those jobs downtown And the people are commuting in we've got a account for that so Having the second highest jobs per capita doesn't really benefit our downtown In a way to increase business If that's the idea, yeah, I mean increase at the value coming going to the grand list that increases the value of land in the downtown which increases the grand list and increases Well, there's necessarily a relationship there. There could be some really bad and efficient development true has a ton of jobs It's just a sea of parking It seems like a big bigger emphasis on population And certainly increasing the population has a lot of secondary benefits too So just increasing the number of people who have the ability if we went from a town of 8,000 to a town of 10,000 people who are residents the extra 10% of People that are you know, especially if the development is within a walking distance to the downtown is going to provide a more vibrant downtown More you're going to be more likely to be You know shopping in the downtown working in the downtown Recreating in the downtown just generally having more secondary benefits to the economy Just having people living here. All right. That seems like it's a pretty important goal So The the the reference here with high quality affordable place to live for employees Do you want to just strike the four employees and just go and talk about? It was one of the part of the aspiration the last aspiration Yeah So this kind of Who thinks of themselves as an who identifies as an employee? I think where it comes from I think where it comes from is when you're looking at the When you talk to the businesses so if you talk to national life They will talk about the reason why they have a difficult time getting people to relocate to Montpelier to work at National life is the inability to find housing for their employees so their employees Don't take this job here. They work at a different Location because they just can't find You know whether it's executive housing for people who are in that income bracket or the lower income management middle-income management I think part of this is really having an adequate supply of housing High-quality affordable place to live having an adequate supply. I don't know what adequate means As an aspiration, you don't have to be really specific We know we don't have enough right right now An adequate supply of high-quality affordable Well, we'll probably well probably the goal out of this that some of the goals and policies out of this Will be the support of the housing plan, but it's just important to connect connect the dots between these You know to know there's a very strong connection between the housing and what the housing task force does and what the economic development Future is just why in my head like John's I think it's a lot easier to look at these not in their own individual silos But try and figure out what are the connections between them? Which we will get to when we get to that point Yeah, at some point we've got to do a land-use plan which really starts to not only draw the separate chapters, but pull them into So we can have a goal that's really about housing, but also really about economic development at the same time It's the same goal because yeah, and when we're getting to our themes probably it wouldn't be a surprise seeing what the Strategic plan that the city council has talked about for years What's in the 2009 plan that we've readopted what's been consistently talked about is this need to increase housing and the issue of affordable housing So these things it's going to pop up in I mean housing will be in four or five chapters Right off the bat, so it'll be easy that that may end up a theme that gets talked about The strategy with the Code improvements, and then it lists out a number of tax credits Okay, so the goal To improve our building stock to make it more flexible efficient and well maintained So if our goal, you know, we're talking to economic developers. We've got some building stock They're they're kind of thinking of a little bit of remember there's a little more commercial than residential so we've got Housing stock that needs a lot of work and it's expensive to fix up What is available to help is Through the federal government and state we have historic tax credits facade improvement credits code improvement tax credits Technology tax credits and brownfield credits. These are all through the downtown program. These are all programs what we have is Kevin Casey who's our community development specialist is somebody who can write those grant applications for people now number These individuals who own these buildings are already aware of how to apply for these tax credits But not all of them do so a number of them come in and we help them write the tax credits and there's a lot Where there's a big proposed increase this year the governor's budget too And like this as a measure as well I don't know how I think there are they're all tracked in their relative. They may be relatively easy to Look at you know, we've taken Tax credits, it's a good indicator Me it's a little it's a little reactionary than pro proactive So it's sometimes tough to measure, you know successor failure can certainly be reflective of what's going on But you don't want to benchmark Kevin with making sure he does five of these Applications because you might not have anybody who comes in asking for them I guess my quick my question is a little more basic which is the strategy indicates that in other technical assistance for Visit for business for building owners who need work on code improvements such as oh Whether it's just strike the code word. No, I guess I'm sort of wondering like are there currently code deficiencies And I guess I don't understand like where we are today. What needs to be improved and how do we get there? It's just the way that the way that it's sort of framed right now. I don't understand Yeah, maybe maybe the word code come up could come out who need work on improvements because it's makes it sound like The bulleted items are code improvements. Yeah, right We want to invest in our These are a bunch of tools to do is the concern is that the current building owners are not adequately taking advantage of those tools We need to figure out ways to encourage them to do that through providing technical assistance or is there something else going on? I'm just trying to make sense of Why those are listed out and what we are not doing with those currently Well, we have been taking advantage of some of them. I think Okay And then the transit center and all of that It's still a reads poorly Yeah, technical assistance for building owners who need work on Improvements such as what the red bulleted items are is the technical assistance Not the improvements So it yeah, I think it just oh, okay. Yeah, see how it's reading is confusing Is it really just sort of coming down to that we need to continue to provide assistance in Taking advantage of these things technical Yes, you can probably fold in the growth centers and down to as well too like Continue to participate in these designated programs and right okay and provide assistance for any associated tax credits Still list the tax credits And well, I think it's helpful to see the range of tax credits That's why I put this such as with just to let people know this when we're talking about this This is what we're talking about Well that strategy seems way more manageable All right, so the it's not the improvements. So we'll just need to Mm-hmm So it will just read other technical assistance for building owners such as such as Okay, and again Remember at the last meeting we talked about reshuffling these so that way we'll pull all the continue to the bottom Yeah, we will By crack some of the ones that That Getting everyone else to use that now Bracking because I said put them in a parking lot and everyone said we don't put things in parking lots anymore We put them in by grace So it's spreading fast Are doing to do that We I mean we don't we don't have to the only one I had picked out so far was at the top of that page and on page two pages numbered but For the MDC to have to develop an outreach program that connects workforce training by partners including CCP Through the state that our businesses need to understand the community. I put that as a priority low I didn't know if it was needed That's one of those ones. I would probably stick in the bike rack Yeah, and it wasn't a priority I mean I mean we want to make sure we educate and train folks, but it We probably have the most educated workforce in the state. I would bet I mean it's really Crazy if you look at the statistics of your employee, yeah, 50 yeah 50% of people have master's degrees and above it's there are some Ridiculous word. It's weird. It's a ridiculous number This this bull is maybe like a when you think about maintaining an educated and trained workforce Is like is that really Our employers have Supply meets the demand whether people are education and workforce training with Appropriate Well, it's the end goal really to have people here educated or trained or is it like that we People they have jobs Employers who have jobs have the right people Yeah, yes, yes How to match That was where We came up with we wanted to focus on the on the worker as opposed to Framing the worker as a commodity was kind of what we were trying to do is to make sure you know We care about educating the people who are In the workforce As opposed to saying if we want the if we want to make sure we've got the right mix Then it might mean barb you got to go because we've got a better fit who's gonna take over You'll be like hey wait, I'm a resident of a pillion. It's like yeah, but you're not the right resident We need a better resident than you barf So that was why we framed it But knowing there's different you definitely have to peel it But on the other hand, then do we want to take steps to create more work opportunities for our highly educated work force And create more jobs So yeah, that's so that comes back to see I mean we talked about wanting to increase the housing And their focus was on creating new 20 new establishments and increasing the tax the taxes and John mentioned Texas Receipts receipts we want more people not we need to get more people drinking and eating downtown So I don't know Again these were where they had come up with from The 30% meals receipts and the 42% rooms and meals receipts is you were saying that that was sort of That was key to the construction of the new hotel. Is that an exclusively key to that or is there other? considerations that we It was key mostly to the hotel And I think there's one thing that there must be something wrong in here One says meals and one says rooms and meals there must be rooms because there should be I think there's alcohol It's the other one in there. So one of these should say Alcohol and one should be meals and rooms or something like that. It says over five years 2021. Is that five years after? That's because it started 2016 right so this needs to be updated Yeah, well that was like as I said when we were working on this that we were pulling out What was their their metrics knowing that we'll probably have to adjust it Yeah, it's just the reason why I ask this because like 42% is a pretty precise number Yeah, it is very precise because I think they were looking at a very specific target of hitting that hundred thousand dollars a year in Revenue, so I think they were looking at okay if we get them this this bite here in alcohol We get this bite out of rooms and this bite out of meals and Then we break our hundred thousand dollar target I mean shouldn't we have an idea Included in here with Airbnb there's an increase in rooms and meals. Yeah, so do we even know what that is from up here? I Don't know but again what they're what they what they would say is Doesn't really matter how we increase it We could go for the home run and just get the hotel and we're done Or we're gonna have to do this by a lot of little bites Yeah, I mean I guess we're gonna be just saying is it's not strictly the hotel. Yes, not strictly struck strictly just the hotel So we're already doing some of this, but we just don't know how much. Yeah Then again being without an MDC director. They're they're doing what they can through their board of directors At this point Ignite the fire that was what they called it that was and we can certainly know that she's not here We can always change that so the idea was we have economic development revolving loan fund and we worked with one of the banks on State Street and Someone and Another person to kind of come up with what you would need To help provide gap financing or some working capital or funds because sometimes banks are willing to provide $50,000 you really need 60 or 70 and or they're willing banks are willing to fund the capital improvements But in order to do the capital improvements you need to shut down for a month and you're gonna lose $10,000 so how do we come up with the $10,000 so they can continue to pay their employees and pay their bills while they can make these improvements while we can provide gap financing and The businesses themselves and the MDC director came up with these and this was just you know How can we get people who are just on the edge of saying I will be willing to invest but I just I Just need this to get through that and so they you know because we have the the revolving loan fund Funds that have been sitting there We said how could how could we best use $60,000 to help you guys and they said well being able to do these small loans Would be able to help so that's what it is is Can we get these small businesses? You know You know the onion River Sports or the whatever to go through and say we can you know we need to grow We can't grow unless we can do this and that's kind of the thought Night the fire Now we have to Yes, especially if there's some coincidence where that happens to happen Ignite the fire loan program in it shortly thereafter, but that's the idea Are there new programs There's there's public education at reach and training which are I feel like those are the poster children of New programs that get created in plants that like ever happened probably shouldn't it was just like We should probably do more training There definitely is a need for communications This is kind of So yeah, I mean there was one on the second page about development of the pit that's new They they an NBC was gonna take the spearhead that so I had that as priority a medium gonna be a cost high NBC would do it At the bottom of the page Establish guidelines for the economic development revolving loan fund That's a priority high cost low that's with Kevin working on that We have the ignite the fire loan program that would be a new program using those RLF funds Sports supports MDC to create business monitoring Learn of opportunities and threats I Had a question on that one whether that's continue or create I mean that's just These are some things that an MDC director should be doing anyways Kind of understand what's going on make sure they've got a pulse on things So then you were talking about the marketing or you got the marketing program Which I think they actually have Montpellier alive does marketing education and outreach I Think they wanted to make sure they MDC and Montpellier live to create public outreach and education to on the value of economic development to help Garner more Support for projects in the future Again, this was out of their their goals. They felt a lot of times when these projects come up They don't get a lot of support from the public They wanted to make sure people understood the value of it. Maybe it's just writing stuff in the newspaper it's Articles in the bridge. I don't see a lot of new projects not like a generic Economic development. Yeah, they're not looking to educate business owners, which of course is always a possible What is a possible thing to do? But most of these look like they were good things to continue doing Put in the NDA program. I think it's in housing, but we can put it in under Could be under E or F Oh anywhere is the strategy. Oh anywhere like kind of where designated downtown is put in So you're saying bring the designated downtown and the neighborhood Yeah, there's like it's just another designation program in it, and I'm not sure I think there are a few other benefits for housing So this one as I said hasn't been Because I finished it in December and was kind of waiting for the new director to come in We never quite finished it up, but I think So if you guys are comfortable saying that they're not going to hire they're not going to hire they're not reposting it So you won't have anybody else to work with on this then. No so we'll probably kind of work through and As I said, that's kind of a little bit of you know Kind of getting your your feel for where you think this was going direction-wise. It seems like it's going in Still has its clunkiness, but I think it hits the important points and talks about the programs that we do It's referenced in a couple of different places it was intended When economic development came up we talked about whether Montpelier alive should be our economic development Corp, and they were not interested in doing that function Which is why we created the new one so we kind of had three things we could keep economic development in-house and put it in my office We could Couch it into Montpelier alive, or we can spin off and create a new corporation and in the end It was the recommendation was to spin it off It can be complicated having it in-house because of government and FOIA requests and so people want to have a confidential discussion about whether or not they want to locate a business in town and next thing You know it becomes public record MDC doesn't have that they can Talk openly with people about what's your what your interests are are you looking to relocate? Are you looking to you know and not worry about having somebody for you that your business is leaving town? So that was kind of the advantage of having it outside and then you know should Montpelier alive be the The one responsible for it You know they do a number of things they do the the the vibrancy in the so you'll see them referenced when it comes to having the vibrant downtown in those beautification projects and Places like that and if you think there are more places we need to include them by all means we can add in more strategies but that's kind of where they plug in is the organizing festivals and events those types of marketing Marketing the downtown branding the downtown Yeah, it needs to go in a goal E goal E feels empty to me Which is the sense of place quality of our public health environment. I'll get more I will the sense of place peace feels a little bit. Yeah is there anything like from I'm gonna say things this alive, but We're gonna be like the gin capital Is there something that? That gives a sense of what what walk there is going to be aside from like Have a great sense of place And if we don't that's fine, too Yeah, I don't yeah, I don't know of any any Theme that we have for our downtown, but I mean I can I could check with Tech would dance you what what he may have there's something we can build into there Yeah, I agree we yeah, we we don't have a lot of In in here, and I'll try to see where where we can increase Montpelier alive's Connections in here for bureaucrats during the day So we decided that it was Okay, you're a decent place for humans That was a while ago Why can't we just Do the humans I think it was it was just a decent decent place for you What's the continued to plan for a project to upgrade the downtown streetscapes to make the entire downtown have a unified pleasant safe Appearance is also safe appearance. Yes, it also actually be safe. Yeah, actually just appear safe Is that a is that a plan that's ongoing or yeah I mean it's the the storyboards and stuff that are out in the hallway right now for the downtown master plan so that That's the downtown master plan project. Yeah, I think it's supposed to be a unified and pleasant appearance Perceptionist reality is that what they say now? It's true because it could be safe and you might not feel safe Well, I agree. There's I think it's too you should feel safe and it should also be safe. That's those little alleys Down this Berry Street where there's no street lights at night It is safe, but feel it All right, so I can go through and work on these kind of clean these things up add add the priorities costs and We can work on that a little bit. Yeah, I'll just say that the priorities and costs Piece it's really helpful the last time we did through the historic district. Yeah And if you know and again we can we'll have another stab at this one, I think just to make sure we can go through and Think about a little bit As I said, it's it's not as fully developed a plan as some of the other ones that you've gotten or will get so If you think of things that you're like when you're walking home or driving home and go and say Didn't talk about that that's missing Shooting email The highlighted piece these are things that we really have to go through and I've got to Clean up. I mean these are just here almost as placeholders. There's not really going to be in the plan. These are just to help Educate people as they're reviewing these to go through and say, oh, okay. I didn't realize But there is no director now. There is no director right now and is the Goal to eventually have a director or are they not even looking that far? It doesn't look like they're looking for one right now. So that may end up not having a director so The implementation of all of this then falls on who It will be their their board of directors and what they're trying to do is to either find people in house that can do this or They have the hundred thousand dollars a year in funding that they get from the city and rather than Take all that money and hire a Director they'll take that money and hire Contractors to do various pieces So so they're going to be a much more active board of directors than yeah, they'll buy they kind of have to Was that the case before or is that going to be a change for them? Well, it used to be that the board of directors would kind of oversee the executive director and kind of You know make recommendations and now because there's no executive director They they have to for example hire the contractor as opposed to telling A director yeah hire a contractor to do that So they're going to be Any of these strategies goals Yep, so we'll probably have to when we Finish this up. I'll probably work with kevin to go and meet with them because they meet early in the morning So we'll probably have Do a presentation with them because this is where we came So we need to make you know that they should then be mentioned as the Implementation Yeah, body anything else with the economic development implementation strategy Did we want to switch the order or and at least pull that last one up to the first one? and then reorder High-quality affordable place to live up top. So it's the goal a pull make goal f goal a We talked about maybe yeah Promoting it making it making sure it was Are we talking about the high-quality affordable places to Or do we not care? I mean, I don't really care at this point. I don't think you need to make this I mean the focus should And I just I just see a lot of I mean I went John's definitely with it. I feel like there's a lot of tie-ins here. I see with housing piece with other sections anyways, so I don't know that prioritizing in here is gonna That's fine get the content in and then we can yeah If you want to take a couple seconds and look at the transportation looks like we have a couple minutes 35 minutes 35 minutes so we didn't we don't have to worry about the transportation so under the under There's a there's a set of strategies in there just ignore those strategies because they haven't been working on them So what the transportation committee they have met already and they They came up with on their own with some help afterwards to massage it three aspirations for transportation So the first aspiration, uh, it's easy to live and work in Montpelier without a car There is an integrated multimodal system that prioritizes active mobility and meets the mobility needs of all users So that's one of the future aspirations Montpelier will have a built environment and transportation system That is safe attractive and contributes to a vital and fight in the lively community And the third aspiration is Montpelier's transportation system will be sustainable and environmentally responsible So they they went through because there's a lot to talk about in transportation. You not only have your walking biking and driving and parking cars and public transportation, but you have the impacts of those and You know having a goal of you know things being safe and attractive Um, so they had a lot of pieces and how they wanted to kind of you could you could put all those pieces together in different ways And this was how they decided to put them together one that kind of talks about the system Up top The second one kind of talks about more specifically the infrastructure and then kind of this third one that kind of gets into the impacts So like what they have so far. I don't know if It seems like hey says it off And then b and c are the result of the okay, well, we'll go through the goals and then see if we can You know if you think reshuffling it um, so the way they would accomplish this goal a Is Walking in Montpelier will be safer Easier and more attractive and then they'll have some strategies for how to meet that And biking in Montpelier will be safer and easier Mobility the third one mobility sharing options will be much more available I think we Oh, so mobility sharing is your car shares and your uh different microtransit and other opportunities like that Public transit that would be public transit is four will be more convenient and available And five is more housing in commercial development in downtown Montpelier will create a pedestrian core Where trips can be completed without use of the car So they kind of have these these five primary goals In order to accomplish that so this one didn't come out as As because they did a lot of this work themselves and working on this it was a little less You know the economic development the housing and the historic kind of were very as John John would say very clunky It's just kind of you know They they have a little less of these real connections But at the same time I I think it's there Because the aspiration Is talked about What they want to see You know a multimodal system that prioritizes cars and then they talk about the different modes of transportation walking biking driving And then I think the only thing they had been talking to me about at the last meeting when we talked was all right where does parking go And I think we're still I think parking ends ends up somewhere in b Where in the next aspiration b But that was their real thing was they wanted to get that aspiration That first statement And they actually reshuffled things to make put that up first that it is easy to live and work in Montpelier without a car So they're the thought of that is you know, that's the vision. That's the aspiration. That's what we want to get to It's not saying we're going to take away your cars. It's not saying we're going to be But what we wanted to do is to say it's possible We want to have a Montpelier where it's possible to live without a car And if you have a car great, but if you don't you can still live and work here just fine And we're going to do that by having things that are very readily walkable readily bikeable Have microtransit that lets you move within that system And public transport transportation that will let you move greater distances and You should be able to live and that's that's the value they're trying to set up and the rest of this is trying to fall into that So the definition of public transit is outside the city? That's it. I think they were just differentiating a little bit Microtransit and and some of these other ones generally are tend to be a little bit more last mile type stuff Public transit, you know, if you were going to Burlington, you're probably not taking microtransit Can't yeah, yeah, right. So you're looking public transit. Okay, right. So I think yeah, that's not Yeah, and yeah, there's some Polish that still needs but this is where they kind of and as I said, it's it's slightly different I kind of liked a little bit of remember how we were talking about maintaining evolved transform They made their statements for their goals more Implicit rather than explicit about that so Biking will be safer. That's their way of saying It needs to be you know, it's rather rather than saying which we would have said probably in these other plans improved bicycle safety They just threw out the words improved and said, you know biking should be safer and easier Will they come up with Strategies then for each one of these they actually already have a whole set of drafts Okay, so that's that's what hasn't shown up yet, but um Um They had been wrestling amongst themselves and what we've been doing is taking it a step in In january we approved the aspirations And or in february we approved the aspirations Tomorrow at the transportation will approve the goals And then we will finish filling in for the next meeting in april What all the strategies are so um this Manly feedback could be that less is more than this gets at all of it These happen if you do this I think there should be other things you could add in the sustainable and environmental environmentally responsible beyond Minimizing making it so people don't have to use cars So yeah, they're looking at under the in sustainable and environmentally responsible. They're they're going to be looking at storm water as well as climate impacts You know people can drive can we get people to shift from fossil fuels to electric vehicles? That's that's a different and again trying to capture The fact that you know two-thirds of our working population are commuters So But you're saying parking would go under I think parking they were going to get under b and I'm trying to remember Moving around Montpelier will be safe for travelers. So what b was kind of looking at was more of the design I can see where john's going where these a and b Those do yeah have a certain amount and I'll work with them But it integrates the built environment more Aspiration b does yeah b and and that was really when we when we had it and we were developing it What this was getting at was a little bit more of the The connection between yeah because on top we are talking about having a goal that is safer and easier and more attractive And so if we're talking about safety in a Why is it in b and maybe that's b is Talking about the built environment could be could incorporate things that wouldn't be touched on in a necessarily Because this a is really about transportation about mobility. I guess that would be Whereas b it almost it sounds as if they want to make sure that any development that happens Would Be easily accessible to Transportation Yeah, I think number three of the mobility sharing was also intended to touch on the The idea of an integrated system And maybe we need to add the integrated into that one and the integrated system really gets to the ability to ride your bike or walk to the To the bus stop and then you can Being able to put your bike on the bus you now have an integrated system You've got an ability to shift between modes because you're not just going to take the bus to work You may end up walking to take the bus or riding your bike to take the bus or riding your bike To Or driving a car to the bus station. Um, you're trying to integrate modes A park and ride would be a perfect example of a mobility sharing an integrated system where I think the focus on or the emphasis on mobility is good Because that's what transportation is about right Yeah, so I'll look at how maybe we collapse a and b together and I'll I'll see if that's Once we get into it. I know there are reasons they they have They were tough because they built so much strategies and then they're trying to fit strategies into pigeonholes. So it's a little bit of wrestling with what is working on an integrated system like our We have a complete streets plan, which is street typologies So it really goes through and says what streets should you know, what should East state have as a street type, you know, based on the amount of traffic and the amount of walking and the amount of biking and its topography Should it have sidewalks on both sides sidewalk on one side? And so we've got a typology map that goes through from a system standpoint What should be there and then you have the next level which is You know Maintaining maintaining and plowing those sidewalks and sweeping sweeping streets So that way bikes can use the bike lanes if you're not sweeping The bike lanes and you know, so you've got another level that's like, okay, we built it The system is here now. We've got this other level of Needs to make sure that it actually functions that Sidewalks are plowed or that storm drains are clear. So that way we're not walking through puddles and You know And they're strong Oh, I bet yeah East state was Like there was a member where they were being abandoned Only got this far, okay I guess the e-bikes are a little bit more reliable, but not as much fun So I yeah, I'll look at those. So, um, you know the built environment as I as I said It was supposed to be looking a little bit less at the At this at the system And so maybe there's a few words that need to get moved and shuffled a little bit Well, once they start to put the strategies in place, maybe it's going to become clear Why we need to because the next one was as I said if you look at the goals You know, it's supposed to be safe. We're supposed to be looking at how do we make things safe for travelers Is attractive in the first one and it is talked about in the first one But it's yeah, and I think this is where it's supposed to be looking a little bit more at some of the other pieces Um So they're still working on this they are still working They're working as I said they're working on the goals tomorrow. They're going to get the goals approved and then we'll work on some of the strategies But I think my my sense is they've done a pretty good job of capturing The big things that need to get talked about now how we can get them organized To make a lot of sense as these guys had five and then three and they had everyone come up with them And there's been a lot of shuffling and moving pieces and parts And then they'll move a piece and then they'll realize like parking parking doesn't have a home We really should have something on parking. So at least we can talk about, you know, are we going to use the man management? for parking are we going to Not have any parking in the downtown. We just need to have a place where we talk about what our parking policy Yeah, so that are we gonna come a goal do we want on-street parking or not on-street parking or is it just So they would add a goal for parking I'm not sure if it's going to be in in the goal If there'll be a specific one that talks about it, or if it's just going to be part of the policies that go into the transportation system The one thing that is missing and Doesn't necessarily need to be part of this Probably should be is I think we need to address the They don't need to come up with what the solution is But I think one of our goals needs to be we need to figure out What the plan is for you mean the one that's coming through the city not the one that goes to new york, right? Yeah, and I'm surprised they don't have anything There are a lot of strategies that talk about it and there's some debate and it goes into that goes, you know Somebody's integrated questions, you know if we had A commuter rail line, you know and the question is and we've had a lot of pushback that said look we've got the prices on that I think city council just has to make a decision You know should we just put put commuter rail to bed and say that that's not something That we're going to be talking about anymore, or is it something that we should say? We want to still pursue that because we still think there's value to it even if the state doesn't think so I think our goal should be that Leaving things status quo Probably isn't great for Montpelier That would be My sense. I mean we we have a rail line that's used Rarely I mean they're running a little bit of granite and they run an occasional train out To deliver fuel to some of the fuel dealers But it's an underutilized resource as far as I'm concerned It has opportunities there that we could take advantage of is it going to cost money to take advantage of those Yeah, but I think if we need to if we're going to keep the rail line at all It's going to need upgrades anyways, or if we're going to get rid of it. That's not free either. Yeah yeah right and and if We're talking about the real line that would go to berry as well, right? Yeah. Yeah, it goes between berry and the way It starts in Montpelier junction Um on the other side of the interstate and it runs through downtown And then it goes up on the other side of the river through berlin and it heads out to berry city Goes up past spalding high school and then starts to go uphill and then it has a funky switch back and it goes by the The uh race track And then it curls around and it hooks over and goes up to the berry Um granite lines It's originally a granite train But they don't run granite anymore Just tailings occasionally. Yeah, just grout for filling in. Um They could well, yeah It's expensive piece of infrastructure for running grout To build to build water. What is it water? Jetties if the state decides to move some of the bridges, you know, not repair some of the bridges Then it will it will become even less useful Is my understanding so yeah, but it'll run it'll be running those same granite trains around the other side Um through savings pasture instead Yeah, maybe not a good plan Anyway, I don't think we should try to tackle all of that But I think we should have a goal. Yeah, we should mention it Yeah, we yeah one goal in the next eight years. We should make a decision on what it is And I think you know, there are people who can make good arguments on both sides And I'm one of the ones who's more than willing to stand up and make a good argument for why Using working on Having commuter rail and some transit oriented design has a lot of value Hopefully, you know, we can at least have the conversation At some point So we should expect there to be a more fleshed out Not the next two meetings from the meeting after yes, they're going to um So unfortunately they meet the day after we do so the next time we meet I still won't have I may have some draft strategies, but I won't have any final strategies In two are you saying in two weeks in four weeks for transportation in four weeks Um Yep, I can make the economic development changes. Um We should in the next couple of weeks have another meeting on Parks I'm working with natural resources with The conservation commission should be in the next two weeks They have some drafts, but it's been slow Turning through them I think somebody else was working on one energy energy, thank you So energy should be going next. What do we just say next Tuesday? Yeah a week from tomorrow To to me act so we will see whether they are gonna have something They have a full draft. It's just up to the that was created by a subcommittee We just need the committee to approve it. So it potentially could be ready for the next meeting um My guess is the way these always work People like to talk about these. They're real really a lot of fun. So But if we get them in advance, then we can at least get them more full Yeah, I'll check with kate to see if we can get those done And the last thing I will mention on our plan before we I assume adjourn a couple minutes early is um, it looks like we will have a graduate intern working with us working in the planning office on the city plan this summer So my hope is that we will have somebody To really start helping me draft The plan chapters So that way we've got that first round through that people can start working and chewing on and Marking up so we'll try to build those out in the the Gis arc gis hub and that way we've got something that's there and Then we can integrate these into those and you know kind See what we can build together, but um I'm excited. I haven't had a graduate intern yet. This will be one of the first ones. So I'm where? Miguel Last item on the agenda is adjournment any Is that a motion Wow Anyone anyone