 Religious extremism is a global issue that raises questions and tensions in many countries. In Nigeria, there is a known fact that religion has been abused in many ways to search the interest of some groups of people who consider themselves as custodians and defenders of religious values and faith. Apparently, the trend of violence in Nigeria is a sign of the need for thorough research and study about religions in tertiary institutions including universities, polytechnics, and colleges of education. Now, extremists use religion as a shield, either for political or economic agenda, and manipulate their gullible followers in order to impose their ideology on them. Now, the reality of this in Nigeria is a challenge to tertiary education to search for a lasting solution that will enable Nigerians overcome the problem and focus on the economic, social, and genuine religious progress. Now most of them students in the northwest city of Sokote on Thursday stoned a Christian student of Shilhu Shagari College of Education to death and burnt her corpse after accusing her of blasphemy against the prophet, Muhammad. Well, we are now being joined by a human rights lawyer, Justice Urwe Buu, and of course we'll try and get a technology to just do justice on all of that. So, incidentally, we have Justice joining us. Good morning to you, Justice Urwe Buu. Good morning, and once more, it is my pleasure. Yes. So, Justice, let's just dive into it. Religious extremism is not a new concept in Nigeria. Over time, students have actually been indoctrinated and they have lost the essence of which they went to school for in the first instance, and they tend to do things contrary to what they were supposed to do in the first place. Let's talk about this issue of blasphemy now in Nigeria. Specifically, what does the law say concerning it? Well, when you talk about blasphemy, is there any law in Nigeria that talks about blasphemy against any religion or any belief or whatever you think it is, your personal issue or that is not sustained? It's unfortunate that in this country the government is still trying to deny about some of the... I still blame the government. I still blame the assembly for some of these problems that have happened. Now, the constitution, as it is, the Nigeria Consulate has amended, especially stated that no state shall adopt any religion at its own religion. What are we saying? Why are these religious problems here and there, and the government is keeping quiet? When people have fractured the provision of the constitution, it is certainly in this country that people try to adopt one particular religion from states as their particular religion. And the government is not doing anything about this. That is why we have a government in the center, which is in Abu Dhabi. That's to make sure that you overseas for some of these things and make sure that the constitution is implemented, simplicity, to letter. So the problem is that because such things have been happening every time and nobody is doing anything, and that is why it will continue happening. It is super valid. Okay, but how then do we now explain this part of the constitution or the fact that the constitution provides a customary or that's a customary system or a secular system? And in that secular system, it incorporates the sharia law. That's what it is. And the customary system prohibits blasphemy by section 204 of the Niger's criminal code. And that section is titled or entitled, insult to religion. How do we explain this part of it? Now, what I was trying to explain, you talked about insult to religion. Okay, but the issue is that the constitution provides that nobody, and that is fundamental human rights to anybody's life, itself by a means, asserted by the law. And that is why we have freedom of religion. By implication, you are right and have every right to belong to any religion of your choice. And when you believe in any religion of your choice, it does not mean that you have to interfere with the religion of another person. Who believes in any other thing? We are talking about religion, religion. Is it because what of people that do not believe in anything? There are people that do not believe in Jesus Christ, there are people that do not believe in Mohamed, there are people that do not believe in anything. And, moreover, if it's, I have the idea, it can't even go through the Quran. I don't think there's any way that the Quran says that you should kill somebody. And when each genu, Islamic scholars and genu, they would tell me that Islam is not a religion of peace. So, where is all these things coming from? That's the question we're asking ourselves, and that's what the government should be looking at. So, it's an issue of hypnotizing people. Some people hypnotizing people, some people using people for, they have selfish interests and all the rest. If people go to school and get to where they've been, you see that most of them, they say, you stop, whether you're a Muslim, whether you're a Christian, whether you're whatever you believe in, these things will stop. But so, let's get back to the recent happening. I mean, the one that happened in Sokoto. How would you describe that in student of a student that was killed? What would you say this is, do you think it's a case of blasphemy here? Well, it's just the case of, you know, mother. Whatever the case may be. Well, I saw that I'm concerned it is barbaric. Because to me, it is a case of murder, because that action is barbaric. Killing in any way that will not conform with the legal process is barbaric and should be condemned in any part of the country, whether in the north, whether in the west, whether in the east, whether everywhere, is to be condemned in the first place. Even if somebody is said to have committed an offense, the Constitution provides that an accused person is present innocent on the proven guilty. And not guilty by the accuser or by people, but the lawsuit by a court of competent jurisdiction. So as you mean to somebody committed an offense, you do not take the person to court, you do not take the legal process and you just go and kill the person. It is murder. There's no other definition you can give to it or no other justification aside from murder. Because you did not hear me tell you. This is even a law that works for a traditional killing. When we even fight with the police, with the military, with the anti-gram law agents and all the rest, about against a traditional killing, not to talk of human beings, who are not even security agents. So what are we saying? They are not justifications. It is purely murder. All right, just Barista Umig, but just how far do you think this investigation would go? Because the police have come out to say that two people have been arrested. But we saw different reactions and counter reactions followed this particular development. For instance, the former vice president condemned the attack and he was quick to also remove the post on Facebook and Twitter just because he was threatened about his political ambition. Just how far would this case go? Will it see the logical conclusion? Well, I wouldn't know that. That's why I say that the responsibility is saddened is ultimately that should be carried on by the police, the DSS, the security agencies in Nigeria with the help of the executive. But if the executive that perceives that appoint these people and make sure that they do their duty before it will not definitely or eventually go to court for wanting or the other. It's unfortunate that in Nigeria, not only this thing that happened in Sokoto it's happening in other parts of the country. It's happening in the east, it's happening in the north, it's happening in the west. So whenever such thing like this or killings happen, and the police always come and say they're investigating social people who have been arrested at the end of the day, nobody will hear anything about it. And that is why it's most of the people calling for justice. Justice for this, justice for this, justice for that. So when we go from here, it's not enough to say don't you have an arrest. But the truth is this, if you want killings to stop in the country, I am using the word killing, not making much emphasis to this, because this kind of thing, killings are the strategic killings that have been happening all over the country. Not only this, I know what I'm saying and you will also understand what I'm trying to say. Sure, but the issue here is this, when self-incidence occurred, what is the police doing about it? Do we play politics with it or they're about? So if there are people anywhere that are to or that are culpable, they should be arrested and persecuted and made to face the law. And the moment you do it, it will stop as a lesson as a deterrent to other people. There's no to it about it. All right, we have the countrymen in Keduna State, Reverend Joseph Hayab joining this conversation. Good morning to you, Reverend Hayab. Good morning to you. All right, let's talk about religious intolerance, religious extremism, if you may, because it's as though a lot of people feel that they need to fight God's battle for him. Would you say that religion in Nigeria has actually brought us more harm than good? Look here, look here. The truth is that religion has helped to stop marches in Nigeria from lynching their leaders. But unfortunately, the larger percentage of those who practice religion in Nigeria are ignorant. And due to ignorance, you see this kind of high level of intolerance displayed every day. It happened once or twice at many times, but no action also from government to show that we cannot allow this. How can citizens take the law into their hands at the slightest misunderstanding hiding on their religion? And leaders have not called such people to order or bring such perpetrators to justice. That's why they continue to do it. This is the appeal people are facing in modern Nigeria, especially Christians. This case may be true. When we have 1001 stories that we are never true and these people were killed and nothing happened. That's why if you even go out on the street now and ask many, they will assume this is also another propaganda, right? It's possible that it is true. It's not that because justice has never been done. That's why this even continues to happen. So the height of religious intolerance has gotten to a large level, both among the masses, the leaders, our political class, and even the religious leaders because this action is supported by the kind of options that religious leaders give or preach to their followers. Literally, a video went viral that an animal in Sokoto preached and said that in Sokoto if you dare blasphemy the Prophet's death, they will not even take you to police death. So if such thing happened, that Imam should also be arrested because it was his preaching that led to this. Okay, but in the course of your response to this question, you have talked about another propaganda. What does that mean in this context? To me, it could be just not say a propaganda or just a blackmail to set you to court with enemies. But this case may be true. I'm only saying that we have had situations like this. That's why even when things happen like this, people will start doubting whether it was true, whether it was one of those blackmail or just cover up to kill whoever is their enemy. So we've had such cases within Northern Nigeria and government has never investigated it. If this is really blasphemy the Prophet, why don't they just add the police to arrest her? If you find guilty, persecuted and jailed, then you kill her, kill somebody's son. How many of them in Nigeria are talking bad things about Jira? How many of them in Nigeria because we want to show we love Jira? Okay, but in this case, according to the reports that we have that's been made public, is the fact that she had requested that in the WhatsApp group that they belong, there should be restriction of religious posts. They're not a particular religion. She talked about posting religious issues in the WhatsApp group. That's the report that we have. But how do we solve this problem now? Because this religious extremism continues every other time. I mean, in a case we know that the constitution, whether or not we want to agree with that, has incorporated the Shari'alu and of course blasphemy is a crime. So in this case where you were supposed to have the government taking action against all sort of this crime and people are taking action, well, how can we solve this problem of people taking the laws into their hands? Some of the videos that are flying in the case that we can see the cases of those who killed the border, sorry. So if those who killed the border can be traced, government should go after them, arrest them and investigate this deeply, prosecute them and let them serve as a deterrent to others whom they think they would do it. There should be an end to this kind of evil going on in our country. Because you do something wrong to me, I shouldn't have killed you. We cannot be as lawless, can see. And even when you read some of the statements that are coming, you're all coming without even this sense of reason to show that this evil is too much. So we're just making statements to build ourselves but we're not only taking concrete words but we're sure that we will not allow this evil to continue. All right, Baistar, just to sum up, let's talk about, you know, damage control. Let's talk about waste ford. Because as it is right now, there seem to be a bit of unrest around them, so-called to state with them, the so-ten and can and, of course, government calling for calm. You know, just what do we need to do to ensure that Muslims feel safe in so-called to as well as in question? So we don't have a beat of a reprisal attack. Justus, are you still there? We have a system, especially in the North, where the only major and only people that can come to this situation down is the religious leaders over there. And then when you have religious leaders that are proactive, that are sincere, that embrace peace, that are tolerant to every other person and every other religion that any other person believes in, all these things will stop. They're not worried about it. And also, the government must rise up, you can't fear of people to do the needful. There's a lot of killings in this country where there's insecurity everywhere and adding this kind of situation to our problem is not acceptable at all. We shouldn't continue this way. We're looking for ways to cope and unravel the problem, the menace we have in the country and this one is coming up again. So what do we say? What do we do? I think the government must rise up, call the religious leaders to order, call them for a meeting and talk to them and give them a mandate For any crime, nobody has the right to take another person's life without the permission of the cops. The only body, saddled with responsibility of prosecuting people, finding them guilty for one, a late offense or the other, is the law courts. Even in Sharia, you're talking about the Sharia law, the Sharia courts. So if they felt that I was filming against the young people, why didn't they take out the cops? So I mean, all these things should stop. Let's also bring in Reverend Yahaa. Let's bring in the Reverend now. Okay, I understand we do not have him back, but I'll just stay with justice now. Now, we also have an incident that happened in 2016, July the 9th, where you have Pastor Eunice Elisha that was killed at the time, beheaded for preaching the gospel in the FCT. And nothing really was done. Fast forward, there was also another incident of a lady who was killed, Bridget by the name, for also in Kanu, and nothing was done. She was beheaded. Do you also see this case as another case that would go unpunished? Well, this one happened in Amunja, this one happened in Kanu, and this one now happened in Sokoto. Well, they are of different jurisdiction. Let me put it that way. And I know that the team has everything officers here, they are all different people. So now it depends on the manner and the kind of person and integrity of the person and the will of the person who is piloting the affairs of that state to come up and handle the situation. That is what I have to say, because in as much as they are different states, but it's still the same country, it's still the same nation, there is a central government at the center that is also supposed to take charge of some of this and what we have is Nigerian police. For now, we don't have any state police. So Nigerian police is one everywhere. So I expect that things will not continue happening the same way it is happening. Because if you keep on happening the same way and nothing is done, if you keep on happening. So let us see what will happen in Sokoto state with this kind of case now, to see whether it can be stopped to some extent. All right, let's bring in Anislamic and cleric to join the conversation. We have Abdul Brahman, Adangba. Thanks for joining us on the breakfast. Good morning to you. Good morning. How are you doing today? We are doing well, glad to have you again. So let's talk about this issue that happened just yesterday in Sokoto state, specifically. What does Islam say about blasphemy and the students, did they do right in any way according to religion to take laws into their own hands? Yeah, it's quite unfortunate that it happened that way. One new religion calls for instant justice. Anytime, any day there is an incident it must be verified, prosecuted, before actions are taken. The jungle justice is not allowed even in Islam. So it's quite unfortunate and maybe has lost a life. But I want to state here that, are you with me? Yeah, go ahead, we can hear you, yes. Yeah, it's very clear now that what happened is the most situation. Nobody would be apprehended and taken to justice because they would say it's a mob action. The baby has lost her life. But I want to clarify and warn here that when you are dealing with people, you are dealing with people you are dealing with. You get in the first instance, most of them will receive anything that's famous about the process of the Quran in our speech. So actually it's on our speech is very, very, very provoking to be put to those people there because even in Islam we are talking about what is a speech that you should not take laws into your hands and act according to how your wishes are then they have done it now. You would not be able to be taken off and object the way they did. Even if they have prosecuted the baby, it will have been positively good for them because it will be known to the world that this is what Islam and most of them will not play with. So then doing what they did is just barbaric and I'm not the supporter of that. So going forward, now how do we begin to ensure resolution of all of this? How do we ensure closure, justice to the family of the deceased girl and of course some residents around Sokoto State just in the school has been closed right now? You see, my own thinking, please. We have to comment, the one more thing with people that they apprehend, that's not my word, number two, we have to learn to respect our different differences. We have differences. We have the way everybody thinks. Even the Muslims to the Christians, the Christians to the Muslims, when we don't call this terror, the lady Muslims have done it in the positive time. So, but anyway, in the way it is now, the Nairaq must now stand up and address issues that have to do like this because if other parties stood up to say they want to start fighting, then it will not give anyone about anything because we are going to be facing a peaceful protest and lots of harmony amongst us. So, if we want to give justice to what happened, the police should deal with the people that they apprehend, let the person that did that thing, we brought a book, that's number one, then let this government institute a committee that's going to sit and address issues that did this to our people. It is not good at all. I am not very happy about this issue. Very sad. All right, thank you so much, Abdul Rahman Ademba and of course, also a very big thank you too to Justice Urebu Human Rights Lawyer. Thank you, Justice. I didn't get that. No, I was just saying thank you for all of your thoughts today. I do appreciate the time and the insights that you have shared so far. I'm afraid all over the world, we just cover indifference. We will allow it to happen. There will all stand up and say we are crying to call me. But it happened in the first attempt. This is what we should have addressed before. I am afraid if the justice everybody wants to be done because I'm looking at these to join the committee that they will say if they want action. All right. Thanks for that interjections that you just made. Once again, thank you so much for your time. Justice Urebu Human Rights Lawyer, thank you so much as well. Thank you. And of course, we also must say a very big thank you to the Christian Association of Nigerian Chairman who joined us from Kaduna State, Natsum Rev. Joseph Hayab. Thank you so much gentlemen for all of the input on this particular sad and barbaric incident that happened in South Dakota State on Thursday night. It is still the breakfast in Plastic Africa. 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