 Good morning, and welcome to Moments with Melinda. I am your host, Melinda Moulton, and my guest today is Chris Cleary. Hey, Chris, how you doing? I'm doing good, Melinda, how are you? I'm fine, I'm so glad that you agreed to be on my show. I have so much I wanna talk to you about today. Let me share with my viewers a little bit about you. Chris Cleary is a fourth generation Vermonter. He is a sculptor, artist, performer, influencer, wizard of the four elements, entrepreneur, and a Renaissance man. I think I kinda nailed it, don't you? Sounds pretty close to the truth. That's pretty close to the truth. That's really true, and my friend, and my friend. So, Chris, let's begin. And let's talk about your growing up in Vermont and about your family. I know that your father's business helped to inspire you to follow in his footsteps. Talk a little bit about growing up in Vermont. Yeah, so my father was a kind of a bullet yourself for her. He was a stone mason by trade and then started a stone company. And so for years, I would follow into jobs and play with stones instead of playing with lumber scraps. That was what I did. I played with little stone scraps and made little stone castles and stuff. And then my family really always kind of pushed the arts at me because I was a really hyperactive little kid, you know? So we just had a really, really fun youth, if you will. Anyway. And talk about his business, because I understand that he owns one of the largest rock business. Yeah, he owns a stone company. Yeah, he owns a stone company in Richmond. He started out in Williston, at Taft Corners. And now he's acquired two quarries over the years. He just bought one this year. It's pretty neat. So yeah, stone is definitely in my blood. And it was a neat business to watch evolve because nobody else was doing that at that point. It was like new, landscaping was new at that point in Vermont and he kind of seized the opportunity and went with it. And my wife and I actually, we're gonna take the business over at one point. So we both worked there, it was very neat. That is so exciting. Now, back in the day, your parents encouraged you to get into art, to become an artist. Talk to us a little bit about that. In what ways as a child were you doing art? So I used to do a lot of really detailed drawing. I had very finite drawings. And then I got into sculpting with clay, but like the plastic clay, the Crayola clay. And I would make all sorts of models. My science teacher actually had my digestive system model for I think it was 13 years I talked to her after. So, and then, so that was most of like my childhood art, but then my father kind of promoted or pushed me towards the stone arts because it was part of the family business, you know. Right and Chris, you attended the West Rutland carving studio. And shortly thereafter, that's when you started your own business which has been a smashing success. But you actually went off to carving school. Yeah, that was a great experience. I always said if I was a trust funder, I would go there for every month because they have courses every month and they have the best food there too. And it's just a great environment. You're around all the old quarries there. And everything is a stone there. It was definitely inspiring. It's sort of the crepallu of stone sculpting. Did you, and so I just think that's so incredible because people don't know that there's, I bet you a lot of my viewers don't know that there's the West Rutland carving studio and they're still around, right? Yeah, it's actually called the West Rutland. I wanna say it's called the Sculpture Center or Sculpture Studio now. They do so much more than stone there. They do metal, copper. They even have, you know, all sorts of courses. It's not just stone. It's really, really inspiring there. So I know that it's in your blood. I know it's in your DNA and it comes from growing up with your father's business. But what is it about stone that captures your imagination? Because stone, when we see stones, they've been here for millennial. Talk to us about that for millions. Talk about what captures you in working with stone. It's such a permanent structure. It's such a permanent element. And I've always been like a historian or a historic boss. And to me, being able to put a date on a stone or words on a stone and know that somebody in a thousand years might find it is fascinating. I love it. So it's like leaving your mark on the earth and trying to, you know, respect that and do the best you can. And you're doing that to all my viewers when you see the stones, you know, that have these beautiful words in them or drawings or whatever, I would venture that a lot of those come from you, Chris, wouldn't you say? Well, I like to think so. I know that other people do this, you know? I'm not the only one, but I usually can tell the work that I've done and just we have a different style. My wife works with me and she does a lot of the design work for the lettering and all of the words. And we have a certain style and you can almost always tell it, but yeah. You and Kim do have a special style and you have such a powerful and wonderful relationship and marriage where you work so closely together. Talk to us about your art working with stone and about your own special techniques that you developed after you went to carving school. Talk to us about that. Yeah, so at carving school, the reason I went there is I really wanted to learn more about the old style, not necessarily hammer and chisel old style, but the pneumatic style, pneumatic chisels and bar relief work. And I was able to learn how to, my teacher there was named Michiko and her specialty was medallion work, making things pop out and being a special bar relief aspect and casting shadows fast and working small areas. And so when I came out of that, it definitely propelled me to do more stuff like that, more larger scale sculpture, actual sculptural work instead of just carving into stones instead of doing portraits into a stone. I was taking a raw block and turning it into something which I love it, you know. And you use sandblasting, right? To do a lot of your work? The sandblasting is for the carving, the relief carving. And that's how we do all the lettering and the memorial work. I do a lot of memorials for humans as well as pets. And then I do these things called work gardens which are also sand carved. We call it sand carving, but sandblasting, yeah. It's the same. Sand carving is much more gentle for you, absolutely. Sand carving is much more appropriate. Well, I have one of your benches. It has my grandchildren's names in it and it's a treasured piece. And I know that we have a couple, a piece of yours up at Main Street Landing too of your beautiful fish. And so folks, so my viewers can visit your website. It's called OnTheRocks.com. So let's move into your other artwork. You also sculpt in wood and you create large sculptures. Most notably recently was the huge champ that you created for the waterfront fireworks on New Year's Eve. I think you did that twice. And I just saw, yesterday, last night, I just saw one of your sculptures at the Isham Farm. And they're large, they're beautiful, they're message bearing and unique. Talk to us about those large sculptures that are getting so much attention, Chris. Yeah, we started those in, it was for my 35th birthday. Can't remember exactly which year. And I had been to Burning Man before, but I wasn't able to make it back because artists can't always afford to go to Burning Man. So I decided to make our own Burning Man here. So I started out, they started out raw and rough, basically scrap pallets and whatever wood we could find, hops, vines, you name it, you know, thatch. And then they just, I got hooked on it. It was just so fun to get people together and see the look on their face as you burn it and to, you know, put some gunpowder in there or some fireworks. And it was just, it's a form of community art that is kind of taken for granted. You know, everybody owns that sculpture the same. It's not mine, it's not his, it's not hers, it's everybody's, you know? And that's what I love about it. So I kind of got hooked on that. And within the first three years, I think I was already at a dozen of them. And they're all burned, you know, so you can't really ever see them again. Occasionally I have some like letters and words that I'll build for people that are still around. But it, you know, everybody asks, how can you burn something like that? And that's, I already answered that question. It's just a form of community art that you can't, you can't replace. And also fire is a form of art that you can't, you can't capture, not in photographs, not in paintings, not in sculpture, it is a true form of art. So by creating these things that are meant to burn and, you know, placing accelerants in certain spots and weak points so that they collapse in a certain way is, it's like the opposite of the stone work that I do. It's impermanence, it's one of a kind and it's gone, you know, instead of something that you hope is gonna last a thousand years. So it's, I don't know what you wanna call it. Well, Chris, it's a gift. I mean, you're giving that gift to the community. And I don't know many artists who burn their art that they work so hard on, but it is a gift. And that's what you're giving to your community. So Chris, what are you working on right now? Right now I am working on a stone bench for my grandparents who passed away 10 years ago and they, my family bought a plot. They're doing a trail network behind the Bennington Library and they bought a plot for a bench for my grandparents and they worked in the community for about 20 years. No, much, much more than that up until they were 98 years old. Anyway, so I'm doing a big Celtic knot on it and then words around that. It's a gigantic stone, it's about the size of a sofa. So it'll be cool. And then we've been hosting a thing called Fire Theatre here where we get upwards of a dozen fire performers and we have a backstage area set up in our backyard. It's kind of like a little bit of a carnival feel. And so we've been hosting that this summer. So I've been doing a lot of working on the infrastructure, building like circus panels and setting up stuff like that. So that's kind of on the side, that's what I'm doing. Well, Chris, you've got to get me on your mailing list because I know that my son-in-love and my grandson have come over and attended your events. You need to get me on your mailing list so I can see what needs are happening. Because they love them and Rowan in particular, he just goes nuts for it. Now, your sculptures, whether they're stone or wood, they are dotting the landscape of Vermont and elsewhere and you won a Seven Days Daisy as the number one sculptor in the state. That's a terrific accolade. How do you feel about that, Chris? Because you're a humble man, you're a humble man. Yeah, I was humbling, honestly, because I don't go after old words. I'm not looking for any of that. I'm just looking to make people happy. So it was really nice. It was a high honor put it that way. And you had some tough competition there. And I was just so thrilled for you. So congratulations. I was surprised, honestly, because they were all very talented artists. Indeed. So let's move on to the element fire. You work on earth with stone and wood and you also work with fire. So talk to us about Cirque de Fuego and your collaboration with your wife, Kim. Give us a detail about what that is and let our viewers know how they know about this and how'd you get into it? What inspires you? Yeah, so as I was saying, we started doing the burning sculptures. You know, when I turned 35 and we were looking for ways to light them on fire. So we kind of kept researching that and found a school, if you will, a camp called Wildfire in Connecticut. And it's a three day retreat where you basically, all you learn about is different elements of fire. There's advanced intermediate and beginner classes. And so I decided I wanted to learn how to fire breathe onto these sculptures. That'd be a really cool way to ignite them. And Kim fell in love with poi in the beginning. And... Oh, I'm sorry, I cannot... Yeah, poi, which is a true translation is fire on rope. So it's spinning fire. Yeah, there's so many different elements of fire spinning. There's different props. So you have fire staff which people have seen like Hawaiian dancers do. There's fire breathing, fire eating. Those are two that everybody's familiar with. And then there's fire fans and palm torches, staffs, dragon staff, et cetera. So we basically started performing in front of friends and family at weddings or get-togethers and then decided to turn it into a business because it was really fun for us and we were working together. You know, it was... So my wife left her quote-unquote real job in 2010. She was working for the MROC Fresh Network. We left the family business in 2001. And then so she joined forces but she had a job, a sustainable substantial job. And I was basically an artist at that point. And so when we started this, it was great for us to work together and have fun together. And so we do a lot of partner acts like that. And so we started a community of fire arts in this area from what we had learned in Connecticut at Wildfire basically to keep the fire arts number one sustainable, number two safe. And back when we started it, Vermont wasn't too friendly on the fire arts. So we had to basically go to a lot of people and explain what we're doing, how we're doing it. We even went and got our New York City fire performers in a card, which is the only fire license, if you will, fire performing license you can get in America. So because New York's very, very strict about it. So we went to New York City, we went to the fire department there in New York City and took the test and got certified. But essentially we kind of started the fire arts in this area to make sure that everyone was safe and not competing against each other and didn't ruin it for everybody else because it's such a dangerous, dangerous thing. But when done properly, it's not. So we like to think we're like the grandparents of the fire arts in Vermont, if you will. You're too young to be the grand, but you are definitely the leaders in this. So can you share with folks where the wild fire retreat is for anyone who might wanna get involved with the fire arts? Yeah, it's in Connecticut. I can't remember exactly what town it is. I do apologize, but it is if you Google or look up Wildfire in Connecticut, you will definitely find it. It's really, really neat. And it's worth it. So my viewers should Google Wildfire Retreat in Connecticut if they decide they wanna join Chris and his team, his group, his tribe with the fire arts. Now you used to be a fire breather, but you had to give it up because of its effect on your lungs with chemical pneumonia. Can you talk a little bit about that? Yeah, I can. So I started fire breathing again and it's working fine. Now you are. So you're doing it again now, okay. So what? Yeah, I had to stop for quite a while. It was about a full, not a full year, but about a full year. I had a whole month and a half spell of chemical pneumonia. So that's the most dangerous thing about fire breathing. I mean, obviously inhaling the fire is horrible, but it's the non-burned particulate that you get if you breathe it back in. And I was doing it in high winds and I knew I shouldn't have, but I did anyway. And so, but I made it eight years fire breathing without chemical pneumonia and in our trade that's saying something. But yeah, it's kind of weird how you don't wanna give something up even though you know it's dangerous for you, but. Well, it is dangerous. And doing anything with fire is dangerous. And you, but you're using it as an art form as a performing, as an art form. Let's talk to us about Burning Man. I've always wanted to go to Burning Man and you attended Burning Man. Did you take, did you create sculptures for Burning Man and talk a little bit about what Burning Man is for my viewers who might not know what it is? Yeah, so Burning Man is one of the world's largest art venues, if you will. It's a temporary city that's put up for one week but it takes a month to set it up. It's out in Nevada in the desert on federal land. So, but it's an entire government run, essentially a government run by just burners themselves. So like we have our own rangers which are kind of our own police department and so many volunteers and first aid and everything. But it is some of the most magnificent interactive art you'll ever find in your life. And it totally changed my art style forever. I went there and I was like, wow, everything is art and it should all be interactive. You know, like bringing the people together, let them play with it, let them see it. People climb on everything at Burning Man. People, they're shenanigans everywhere. It's so much fun. But it is all about the art and the beauty and there's 10 principles in Burning Man which is kind of like the 10 commandments for us but a lot of them are like gifting, give people gifts, radical self-reliance, bring everything you need, just do it. You're in the desert, you need to be able to survive in the desert for a week. But that doesn't mean that somebody isn't gonna come and offer you food or beverages just because they want to because that's their gift. So it's a really, really neat community and it's really inspiring. You can talk to the artists about what they've made. You can, they're happy to share their trade secrets and how they do what they did. And I always look at it as almost like an education instead of a party, if you will. And anyone can go? Absolutely, yeah. You just have to get tickets. That's the hard part nowadays. When I first went to Burning Man, it was 2009. I helped a sculptor named Homer Wells, a great sculptor, build a thing called the Time Cycle which was a 20 foot Ferris wheel that drove. So I had two wheels in the back and two gigantic 20 foot, actually 20 foot eight inch wheels that drove and you could drive it in reverse but the Ferris wheel would go forward or vice versa. So that literally had an independent mechanism inside, we call it the planetary gear. That would run the Ferris wheel. So we could give rides to six people while they drove which was really, really neat. It was new. I mean, it was like nothing Burning Man had ever seen in an art car. So it was really, really cool to see how they enjoyed it and how we kind of made our mark as Vermonters and that it changed my life that way. That's extraordinary. Well, thank you for sharing that story with us, Chris. Talk a little bit about your workshops. You host workshops, right? Yeah, yeah, we do kids workshops for making ornaments, stone ornaments. I make these slate ornaments out of reclaimed shingles from old buildings. So I let people set up and cut the stones themselves and then lay out the template for the rubber resist and create their own design and sandblast. I do the sandblasting myself but I let them do every other process, part of the process. And then we do a thing called sip and carve. And so we do that for adults. And it's like an evening, you know, just fun, learn how to carve stone, have fun, drink some hot cider usually. I would love to do that. I need to, I would love to do that. And people can find out more about this by going to your website which is ontherocks.com. So to all my viewers, go visit Chris and Kim's website ontherocks.com. So on your website. I think it might be ontherocksvt.com. Ontherocksvt.com. I might be wrong but. Well, you would know. It is ontherocksvt.com. Yeah, so I'm kind of a dinosaur. I don't use computers just to let you know that. You don't use computers. That's why you have all this time to do the creative work that you do. I like to. That says volumes. I mean, that says volumes about your mind and your soul. That's what gives you all the time to do this great stuff is you're somebody who's not into computers. Bless your heart on that one. I've spent too much time on a computer. Now, but let's go back to your website ontherocksvt.com. I apologize for that. No, I apologize. On your website, you talk about come visit me. It's like come just stop in. So you've opened your home in your studio to the public. Just to come visit. Is that, is that the case? Yeah, well, during COVID, we kind of did what you know. So, and then I've been renovating my house. So now it's not, you know, it's not as welcoming as it used to be, but I am always interested in having people stop by. I just had a kid stop by yesterday from the VYCC and he would just have to stop and tell me that he loved the love sculpture out front. And I gave him a 45 minute tour I dropped what I was doing. And, you know, I love to share this with people. Absolutely. So, because any time with you is special. I've been there. I've gotten that I've, I wouldn't call it a tour. It is a tour, but it's more just a delightful experience. Your gardens, your sculptures, your, your studio is phenomenal. Now talk to me real, real quickly about 420, the Stoner holiday history with the legalization of pot. You felt vindicated and proud to display your six and a half foot high 420 creation. And you did state in one of the articles I read that 42 is the answer to the ultimate question of life, the universe and everything. Talk to me about that and about the sculpture that you created. Zen burn farms in Waterbury. They're friends of ours. We made two giant cannabis leaves and burned those for 420. About four years ago, David Zuckerman actually led the procession up to the burn and then we burned these gigantic cannabis leaves. We actually choreographed a whole show to cannabis songs and then burned the two leaves. That was two years in a row. And then since then they've commissioned me to make non-burning art. So we have the word kind on a trailer in front of their place in Waterbury as you go through Waterbury. And then he had me do 420 for 420. It was really fun to see it in the war and parade on a trailer with a band playing around it. It was a riot. But it's really neat to see the cannabis industry supporting the arts. It's a brand new industry. So seeing that happen is really cool. That's wonderful. Talk to us about 42. 42. The ultimate question of life. Talk to us about that. I'm very curious. So it stayed 42 in my back, in my front yard for a while because the zero took a long time to build. And that just became a topic of conversation in our neighborhood. And I heard every part of 42 from everybody and it was just neat, you know? It's also Jackie Robinson's number, I think. Right, right. But the answer to the ultimate question of life, the universe and everything. I just love it. Well, you know, we're coming to the end of my show, Chris. And I wanna talk to you. I just wanna tell you that you are a gentle and loving person and I've enjoyed getting to know you over the years. You and your family have contributed so much by bringing art, performance, community, building, expression. And it's how we need to sort of live in the world. I wanna wish you well in all that you do and all that you are. And I really wanna thank you so much for your time here today. Is there anything else that you'd like to share with my viewers before we sign off? If you're a young aspiring artist, always believe that you can do it. You can make a living as an artist. You can make a living as an artist. And to all my viewers, I really encourage you to go to ontheroxvt.com and visit Chris and Kim's website. And thank you so much, Chris, for your time. I really appreciate it. And to my viewers, thank you. And to my viewers, thank you for joining me and Chris Cleary and I will see you soon. Have a beautiful day.