 Welcome back to Think Tech. This is American Issues Take One, and I'm Jay Fidel. We're going to talk about what does Rona McDaniels win at the GOP at the RNC. Tell us about the GOP and MAGA GOP. And what does it tell us about Trump? This is, in a way, it's about the Trump comeback, isn't it? And we have Jeff Portnoy on the show to talk with us. We'll be right back. Welcome to the show, Jeff. Nice to see you. So Rona McDaniels has won a fourth term, a fourth term as chairperson of the RNC. She was running against a California-based attorney, Harmie Dillon, and my pillow CEO, Mike Lindell, remember him. Our panel discusses the causes and implications of this election. What does it tell us about the direction of the GOP? Is the GOP moving further right? What influence did Trump and his base have on the election? I guess that also relates to what influence did Trump have on the election of Kevin McCarthy in the House as Speaker. Now, what does it mean for Trump's presidential campaign and in juxtaposition the campaign of Ron DeSantis and others who might want to be president? What does it mean for Joe Biden, the Democrat, and the future of the country? It's no small thing. So, Jeff, why don't you go first and tell me your reaction about Rona McDaniels. Is this an indicator? Is it a canary in the coal mine? What is it? You know, it's hard to really predict what it all means. I mean, all three are ultra-right crazies. I guess you can pick one of the three to be your favorite ultra-right crazy. I frankly would have liked the my pillow guy because he's very entertaining. And I think he would have been the final nail in the Republican coffin because even the crazies have to realize that he is a little bit unbalanced. By the way, I did buy his pillows a few years ago, not understanding his craziness. The pillows are great. You know, the more you read and hear about DeSantis, the more it reinforces what I've said on several of your shows over the last two years. Be careful for what you wish for because he is extraordinarily more right than Trump. And frankly, he scares me way more than Trump. I mean, what he's done in the last few days wanting to defund any university in Florida that teaches anything about diversity. What he's done with education in Florida at the elementary and high school level about what can and can't be taught. What he's done in firing prosecutors who don't follow what he believes should be their decision making. I'd vote for Trump in a second over DeSantis. The busing immigrants to New England. Well, I was just going through the first three that popped into my mind. So I mean, all these people that said, Oh, thank God, we've got somebody who potentially can defeat Trump. What are you guys looking at? I mean, I don't know if DeSantis is a crook or not. So there's no proof one way or the other. And we know that Trump is. But I'll tell you what, if you're looking at politics, Trump is he's not going to like this far more liberal than DeSantis. So what does it mean? It means that we're going to have a contest in the Republican primary. And who knows if Haley will jump in or, you know, some of these other loonies. And maybe they'll even be a more moderate Republican that just joins the party just to show the contrast. But, you know, I thought the fight over who would be the Republican chair was kind of a non-event. Yeah, well, maybe maybe that's so in the sense that the election's over. The 2022 election is over. And what can the RNC do now? How much authority does it have? Maybe it's operating in a vacuum and only only relevant through the 2024 election. And they can't do all that much in terms of the, you know, the action in the House. So maybe it's an exercise. Maybe it's maybe it's just a way to make statements and get on and get on the headlines and the press. And we're going to, we're going to hear about that, aren't we? We're going to hear not necessarily from Ronald McDaniel, but we're going to hear from the others at the at the RNC. The Republican Party is a clown show. Every time I think of them, I think of the little car at the Ringling Brothers Circus that all the clowns would run out of. I mean, and every day it's worse. I mean, what happened over in the House, what's to come in the House, their investigative committees, their chairmanship that they gave to, you know, 20 of the most radical loony people that have ever existed. I mean, I think the only good news in this and it is good news is I think that it's driving independence completely away from the Republican Party. The bad news is the Democrats haven't given a much to entice them to join the Democratic Party when it comes to voting. I mean, how many more things can Biden screw up? You know, it's beyond me. I mean, you know, it's awful if you want things to go in the way you want them to go. And then you watch him these things about the documents and his comments about the documents. And I mean, can he get any decent press? Maybe not, because I just don't think he's capable of getting it, even though there are good things potentially going on and there'll be good things going on in the Senate. You know, yesterday was reported that he said no fighters for Ukraine. And when you read the article in the Times, or was it the post, it was merely a one sentence interview where the reporter said, are you going to send F-16s through Ukraine? And he said no. And this became a very important statement in the paper because he did it off the wall. He did it completely spontaneously, thoughtlessly. And it has huge moment because right now we're at the end, hopefully at the end of the Russian winter offensive. And we're going into the Russian spring offensive. And they are using every kind of weapon they can muster. And the result is the Ukrainians are really being set back here. There's no big wins going on for the Ukrainian. And so the tanks, which a lot of people were advocating for, are going to be some time later. Germany has turned out to be the most active tank provider and other countries in Eastern Europe sending in the German tanks. And the U.S. has been very reluctant. They were reluctant because of what they claimed, the military, U.S. military claimed that the Abrams tank was hard to maintain. And because it was hard to maintain, they held up, Biden held up. I mean, all of this seems so lackluster, so un-spirited. And I think that if you left it up to him, Ukraine would lose. He's not acting fast enough. He's not acting with gusto and commitment. He's halfway all the time. And I suggest to you, Jeff, that what you said is right in the sense that the halfway thing that he does is not only about Ukraine. It's halfway about everything. Well, it's still early, right? We're still February 1, 23. We've got almost two years to go before the circus comes into town. But I don't see anything to be optimistic about. I mean, nothing got done when the Democrats controlled both houses of Congress. Now they only control one. Sure, the Republicans only have a five-vote majority in the house, but that's five more votes than they had the last time. And I don't see much hope about anything happening in the country in the next two years. I see total stalemate on anything that's important. Biden has already said he's running again. I mean, he'll be 106 years old if he wins again and lasts for four years. Kamala Harris is in trouble. It was a saying that she she really can't stand for another term. So I think Biden's going to have to find somebody else if he's serious. Well, I mean, that's a whole interesting thing, too. And not that it's surprising. But you remember two years ago, all the comments about she was going to be the most active vice president in history and was going to follow on Obama and Biden and how much power. I can't remember the last time I saw her name in the press. It might have been a year ago. I forgot she was vice president, too. You just reminded me. I'm going to be helpful. Do you think it's her fault or his fault? Well, I think she's just got so much baggage. I don't know why, but I don't know whose fault it is, but clearly she doesn't exist. I mean, I think her husband just went somewhere. I watched it on TV. They sent him to something. That's the first I remember that she was there. I mean, and again, what's going to be fun and I mean that is the Republican race are the debates. I'm looking. I can't wait for Trump at the Santos. Trump with his name calling and his inability to have a complete sentence and the Santos who's very smart and very evil and unbelievably conservative and those two going at each other. Plus, there'll be six or seven other clowns coming out of the Volkswagen. So I'm really looking forward to that. I mean, that that is must see television. Well, you know what? What strikes me about this thing with the RNC and the election, the RNC is they still haven't adopted a platform. They didn't have one last time. Why would they have one this time? Right? Exactly. And they won't. They won't between now and 2024. And they're not having any influence at all on the action of the GOP in the house on Kevin McCarthy. Who doesn't have a platform either? So, you know, between one and the other, there's no platform, except, you know, this kind of destructive thing they do, investigating the investigation that investigated and trying to impeach people and trying. Oh, the thing about the debt ceiling that is going to get to be such a crunch. They don't have a platform. It's just like stamping their feet, like where I'll teenagers. And I can't imagine how the country you talk about the independent. It's more is anybody on the fringe of the base, you know, anybody who's not actually in the base sort of starts to wonder about what is the platform? How can they help us? And what I find interesting, Jeff, is that if you put from and DeSantis on the stage, which one of them has a platform? Is it neither? Oh, no, no, no, no. DeSantis has a platform. Go ahead. I mean, he has a platform. All you got to do is read the paper every day about what he's coming up with. Well, use that on the national stage. It's dangerous. You know, Trump is still very powerful, no matter what anybody says, no matter he's Teflon. He's John Gotti of the Republican Party. For those who don't remember, John Gotti found a mob for a long time and he was called Teflon John. They couldn't touch him no matter what he did. And it's still the same way with Trump. And Trump doesn't back off. Trump just filed what a libel suit yesterday against the Washington Post or something. What was it? He filed some absurd lawsuit. Oh, against Woodward for releasing the tapes, claiming a copyright violation. I mean, he's a laugh a minute. I'm not kidding. It's not a three wing circus. It's a 20 ring circus. And he's still the ringmaster. This is after he got bashed on his dude against... He doesn't care. Would they find him and his lawyers, he and his lawyers, sorry, a million dollars? Yep. I mean, they don't care. I mean, you know, and then whenever he really does something, the Democrats find a way to screw it up like these papers, these classified papers. I mean, the last show I did with you, you kept going on about how he's going to get indicted. And I said he's never going to get indicted. And you said he's going to get indicted. What are they going to indict Biden to now? And Pence and George Washington and whoever else took classified papers? I mean, he's Teflon. The man is Teflon. And he will put up a huge effort to become the nominee. I don't think he will. But I'm telling you, he's a lot better than the alternative. He really is. Well, I thought about that. Number one is all kinds of press about how his influence is fading. He hasn't been, you know, as public lately. He did two campaign appearances just this week. He's trying to step it up. He's trying to have his old fashioned rallies for sure. And I guess the question is whether Teflon still pervades here, whether he can make a comeback, because that's what it would be, a comeback. And my answer, which is the same. I don't agree with you. I don't think it's a comeback because I don't think he's ever been away. He can't have a comeback unless you've been away. He's not, yeah, he lost the election. And, you know, and he entered into this crazy conspiracy theory, which has hurt him. I agree with rational Republicans. The whole election fiasco has hurt him. But I don't think it's a comeback. I mean, he's he's just playing his cards. And this time, he's got a formidable foe or two, which will make it interesting. Not those 15 clowns. Sorry to keep using the word, but that's the only word I can think of. I mean, think back to who was involved in the primary debates. Back in 2016. I mean, it's a joke. They're certifiably crazy. They may be smart, but they're crazy. You know what? What is wrong with the RNs? Sorry, the DNC, the Democratic. Is there one? Jamie Harrison is a guy's name. But nobody knows who it is because he doesn't speak for the party and he doesn't speak about the party. And the party has, you know, as you say, lost its brand. But couldn't they regain their brand? Couldn't there be some leadership here? Could, yes. Could, I agree with the word could. But that's as far as I can agree. They haven't shown any any ability to do that. They are the typical Democratic party. They're all over the map. They hardly can get organized, you know, when they need to. They take two steps forward and then one step backward. And, you know, yes, I don't disagree with you that there are some, you know, this is based upon our politics. There are some pretty outstanding Democrats out there, particularly in the Senate. But so what? I mean, where is it going? You know, I just... Well, what do you think should happen with Biden? I mean, we advocated for a long time, we here on Think Tech advocated that he should, you know, really consider withdrawing from the 2024. I guess he wasn't watching. I guess not. We have to get him to watch. But, you know, wouldn't that be the right move to let it go to somebody younger, stronger, more vital? Wouldn't that save them? Yes. But I don't think it has to do with younger, stronger, more vital. I just has to think about those are factors. Yes. But I'm, you know, I'm old. I don't think I should be pushed aside, although a lot of people do believe that. I mean, it's, I just think when you get to, you know, look at Reagan. Reagan's last couple of years, Nancy Reagan was president of the United States. And he was doing Alzheimer's. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, that's the problem when you, when you get to your 80s, you know, the predictability is that something will fail. Yeah, no, right. Something will fail. Yeah. And so, I mean, if you look, just look at Biden now, look at him walk and talk. He's not going to last. He'll never get through a term, even if he does win. If, if, if Trump is the nominee, we will have two folks running for president who are 80. I mean, that's ridiculous. Well, you know, it may be okay in terms of thought process. And, you know, they can still use their brains, but they're weak. They're weak. They're subject to Alzheimer's and dementia. They're subject to all kinds of physical risk. They won't, you know, the likelihood of them getting through, you know, just demographically is not that great. So even if they get elected, I mean, they're weak. And if they're weak and they fail, the country, the country is injured. And the country is injured in the eyes of other countries. It's not a good thing that we have octogenarians running for and, and, and winning for president. Well, particularly when you look at other countries who are electing, who are electing prime ministers who are in the 30s. Yeah. You know, and I don't, I don't think age is the definitive factor. I don't, you know, a lot of people make fun of Biden because of his slip ups and misuse of words. And that doesn't concern me. What concerns me is it just seems like they're rudderless. I, you know, I mean, it's February now. What, what proposals have they put forward? Since the November election? Well, could they, they'll never get the house. Yeah, but they should at least make believe that they have a chance. Obviously, you know, go, go out in the public and speak to the people and say we, you know, we're trying and they're not sort of thing. But the fact is that the Republicans are going to oppose pretty much everything he does. But see, that's, that's where I think they have dropped the ball. They ought to force the Republicans to vote on things like gun control, just using one thing on the debt ceiling. Instead of this mully, mully compromise and nothing gets done, let the country choose between two completely diverse philosophies. Pass gun control in the Senate. Forget about reaching a compromise by partisan bullshit. Excuse me. I think I can say that. You can say that. Forget it. Pass the strictest gun control law you can get through, although it's the Democrats. So who knows what mansion and others would do and then send it over to the house and let them put it into the closet or defeat it. Then at least you have people have the option of one or the other. Instead of just trying to reach bipartisanship, that's a Biden's thing. That's what kills me. Bipartisanship. What bipartisanship? I mean, you know, it's beyond me. And you know what? You brought up the debt ceiling. It's going to be a, I hate to use the word again. It's going to be a circus. And you know, eventually they'll work something out. But take a stand. Well, the stand he's taking is that I am not going to negotiate the debt ceiling. That's what he says. But sure, in the quiet of their discussions in the back room, it will be a broke wall. It will be the debt ceiling plus a lot of other things. And I'm sure that's what, you know, when I say Kevin McCarthy, I'm really saying Kevin McCarthy with a little thing in his ear from Trump, because I believe that Trump is telling Kevin McCarthy who had the backbone, you know, what to do. He sold out anyway. I mean, is there any question? Power corrupts. And, you know, he wasn't going to give up his opportunity to be speaker no matter what he had to do. He would have cut his left arm off if they had asked. Who is controlling him now? And I don't think you can name 10 of the 20 and you know who's controlling him. It's Trump is controlling him. Well, he may be. But I think, you know, those same people are Trumpers in the house. So he's got an intermediary. He's got he's got five or six or eight intermediaries. Just watch Fox News and see who's on there every night from the Republican Party. You know, it's it's, you know, McCarthy is powerless, powerless. He's just got a position, but no power. He's being controlled. And, you know, people were thrilled the Republicans only got a five vote majority. And I remember talking about that on your one of your prior shows saying be careful what you wish for. Yeah, well, you did say that. We might have been better with Republicans having a 40 vote majority because not all not all Republicans are crazy. Many of them are not. They're more conservative, but at least they're thoughtful. And, you know, they're not trying to change democracy. It's interesting that the Santas was was supporting Parmi Dylan, and he was opposing Ronald McDaniel. It's interesting. Yeah, well, you know, you want to take control of the apparatus, right? Because the fundraising, which is controlled by the National Committee, although now these all these other PACs and Senatorial Committee and House, you know, House election committees. But it used to be the National Party controlled most of the funds, right? And decided where they went. Now, now I think they just have a convention every year, and they sell pillows. You know, and it's bizarre. We talk about, you know, Trump and the Freedom Caucus having influence on. Yeah, the Freedom Caucus. Sure, Freedom Caucus, the ultramanism. We talk about them having, you know, some kind of influence on on Kevin McCarthy. But clearly does the party does Ronald McDaniel or any of the people in this party, which seems to be moving right. But it's hard to get a beat on exactly where they're moving. If they're moving anywhere. But they're really there really. There is a Republican Party. But there's a cult as part of that party. Is it part of it? Or is it different than a Republican? Well, I think it's part of it theoretically, but it's controlling it. It's a cult. Trump and his supporters are a classic cult. It's unique in my view of American politics. There have been followers before. I don't think the people that followed Robert Kennedy would have been considered a cult, maybe. But clearly, Trump is a cult leader. He ought to be giving out Kool-Aid and taking people to Granada. I mean, that's what it is. Yeah, it's Jim Jones all over it. Yeah, it is. To do the Puku over it. The question, though, is when you put it together with the Santas, and you made a statement just a few minutes ago about this, I suspect that you believe that Trump is not going to get the nomination and that the Santas will get the nomination. And they will be off and running in that direction, which is, as you say, dangerous, perhaps more dangerous. So why do you say that? Well, no, I don't know. I mean, clearly, the primary system is designed to give Trump the nomination. There's no question as to who comes out and votes in primaries. His cult will follow him into whatever it is he wants them to do. I think the Santos has a huge uphill battle if it winds up being decided in the primaries. Now, whether something happens before that, where the powers that be, whoever they are, can convince Trump, which I think is almost impossible, that the future of his party is better off in the hands of somebody else. But, you know, I know we're getting out of time, and I may change my view on this in a year, but I doubt it. As much as I hate Trump and think he is evil for my life and for the future of the country and for the things I believe in, I'd rather have Trump. Trump is not anti-gay. You know, I mean, he's a lot of bad things. He's not anti-diversity. He's just an evil crook. And sometimes that may be better than somebody who's going to try to divide this country in other ways that I just think in the hands of a smarter person are going to be a lot more difficult to overcome. And that's the Santos. That may be so, but, you know, Trump has done so much damage to the country. I agree. And we don't even know all the damage he's done. It's still coming out. It's really remarkable how many things have been revealed even in the last few months. So my question to you is, you know, this is not a happy picture. But frankly, Jeff, it hasn't been a happy picture in our discussions for a long, long, long time, even from 2017, you know, when we called this show Trump Week. And we covered all the shenanigans that were coming out. It's worse, much worse. You know, one thing to look at is Timothy Snyder's latest blog where he does fantastic research on how Trump got into power, how he worked with Putin, what he did when he got into power, how he worked with Putin, and how he worked with Putin in, you know, the midterms, and then in 2020. It's really interesting, the detail that Snyder was able to emulate. But here we are on, you know, the brink of complete chaos. The RNC with the election of Rona McDaniel is really saying, and she's Trump's girl, really saying we like Trump. We still like Trump after four years of her being the chair. She's still the chair. And I would have to say that he's still powerful. I would agree with you. The question is, and of course, DeSantis, he might win. Who knows that either one of those things is so bad. And then, of course, we have a, you know, sort of a non-player in Biden, and we don't have the Democratic Party strong enough to beat the Republicans. I mean, I think there's a fair chance of that. Where is the country going? You know what I worry about, Jeff, and I, you know, you're a litigator, and you're into the First Amendment and all that. I worry about replaying some of the things that happened in Europe, both before World War I and before World War II, where civil rights were dashed. You know, we talk, we have these conversations, and we think, okay, well, it's happening in Washington. It's happening on the front page of the newspaper. But it isn't going to affect me. And they're never going to do an inappropriate, you know, audit of my tax return. They're never going to, you know, haul me away in the middle of the night. They're never going to charge me with crimes I didn't commit. And yet I don't think that's true. I think if either of those guys gets in, we will find our civil rights changed dramatically, individually. Oh, I think it depends. I'm not sure I agree with that. I think it depends on who you are. I don't think the civil rights are going to be amended or catered for or white folks. I think they'll be fine. White heterosexual folks. But if you're a minority of whatever kind, whether it's race, sex, you know, any minority, an immigrant, uh, yeah, I think a lot of people here talking about half the country. Yeah. But the good news is the good people live on the coast. So just fly over the middle of the country. If you're in the if you're any of those groups, uh, you know, I'm not as pessimistic as you. I don't even know about, you know, I read about all this Putin stuff. I think he's given far more credit than he deserves. But, uh, we'll see what happens. I mean, there are lots of, I don't see it happening. There are lots of good people in politics, in states, in city governments, uh, on courts. As long as they have the rule of law, uh, we're okay. I just believe that. I mean, you know, Biden is replacing a lot of judges as Trump did. And, uh, you know, I mean, it's a crapshoot as to who you might appear before. And we all know about the Supreme Court and how unbalanced it is right now, among other things, by the way, wait till their decisions come out on affirmative action and related things that have been argued already. Yeah. And the thing about John Robert's wife, What's that? John Robert's wife, there's a bit of a scandal about him. Oh, really? Yeah. His wife was a recruiter for some of the big firms in the country. And, um, those firms were appearing before the Supreme Court, though she was in business with them. Um, and, um, you know, satisfying their recruiting and getting paid. No, it's not the same thing as Clarence Thomas and Ginny. Yeah, but don't forget history repeats itself. We can get back to Abe Fortis. And even William Douglas, who I love, you know, I mean, he did things that you'd never get away with now as a justice, even though we all love his opinions. I remember. So one thing, we're going to talk about this tomorrow in American Tech Two, American Issues. Oh, there's going to be a take two. I'm sorry, I'm going to miss it. I just wanted to get a little of your thoughts on it before we close. So the, the issue on tomorrow's take two is what's going on with all this violence, including what happened in Memphis. We seem to have a pension for violence now, more than before. And we're talking about, you know, mass murder, massacres. We're talking about shooting school, little children. The numbers are staggering. How many people are dying by way of violence to guns and beatings and, you know, police action of one kind or another. It seems like, you know, our public safety is kind of coming apart. It's one of those changes that I mentioned, one of those legacy points from Trump, it seems to me, that we just didn't have this when we entered into his, you know, first term. But now we have it clearly, it's in the paper every day. I'm not saying we never had violence in this country, the violent country, but the violence has increased and it seems to have increased on, on his watch and on, say the Republican watch. What do you think about that? And is that something like the civil rights issue that concerns you? Well, you've asked a bunch of questions. I mean, I'm not a psychiatrist. I read what you read. The country has turned completely violent, whether it's people shooting each other or police being exposed for unbelievable excessive police actions. I don't disagree with you that I think Trump was a large factor in turning the country more violent, but he's been out of office. And as you say, basically quiet now for over two years. And things haven't gotten better. They've, they've gotten worse and nobody's doing anything about it. That's the more distressing thing I mentioned before about gun control and gun legislation. All we get is the Supreme Court telling us you can carry a gun anywhere you want or states allowing guns on campus. I mean, Jay, I mean, this is where the country is going. It's going back to the early 1800s where everybody carried a gun and they just shot people out of the saloon in the middle of the street. I mean, there's no civility. I mean, there really isn't. There's no civility on the roads. I mean, you know, we're getting into, there's no civility in much of commerce. There's worse than no civility with people being killed every single day in mass shootings. And what, what do we do? We have four days of CNN and, you know, talking to the victims, families and bemoaning what's going on. And then the next day, there's another shooting and we do the same thing over again. And the next day, there's another beating and the same thing over again and 150 people march in Memphis. You know, what's really interesting about this last terrible police killing and you don't hear it because it's not politically correct. These are five African American police officers. Do you see the, the number of people who are out on the streets demonstrating miniscule, miniscule. Can you just imagine if they had been five white police officers based upon Trevor Martin and everything else? The country is just brutally divided. That doesn't mean, by the way, that these people should be prosecuted. And, you know, what they did was unbelievable. But, you know, what kind of police reform is there? Well, it's very interesting in this, anyway, this morning's times, there's a very interesting article, could be the Washington Post, a very interesting article about the efficacy of various programs who limit or terminate violence, gun violence and police violence around the country. And the, this article evaluates some of them in some of the cities in which money has been allocated for that, including a lot of federal money. And a lot of them are scams that turned into scams. The money is wasted. The programs are ineffectual. The country's filled with these ineffectual wasteful programs to try to deal with violence. It's not working. Well, we can get into a long discussion, and I'm not an expert in this, but I certainly have opinions to change me. Throwing money at these things is not even close to the answer. You've got to change the way people basically behave and are brought up and are taught. Do you know they don't even teach civics anymore in most high schools? Civics. Civics, you asked students in Hawaii who the last five presidents are, I'll bet you 90% couldn't tell you, or quote the bill of rights. When we went to school, and I'm sorry, it sounds like get off my lawn, when we went to school in the 50s, we started learning civics, the Constitution, in second grade. Now, a lot of it may have been bullshit. We may not have gotten the truth about what we did to the Indians and other people, but at least we were given something. Now, forget it. People just care about getting a job and math and science and becoming a startup multi-millionaire. But ask them the first question about how many years a senator's term is. They're going to look at you like, huh? That's what's wrong with the country, anyway. There's a great discussion there. As Jeff Fortnoy, first amendment lawyer, thank you very much. Opinion maker with no background. Yes. Lots of good opinions. We'll see you again soon. All right. Bye everybody.