 Of course, welcome back to the breakfast. That was a little bit of history of what happened on this day When I'm moving to our first major conversation for today where we're of course, we're going to be speaking More extensively on the report that was put out by the judicial panel of inquiry Yesterday this morning. We're going to be speaking by one of the Ansar's protesters Rino Odwala who joins us via zoom this morning. Good morning, Rino and thanks for joining us Thank you so much for having me Absolutely. Well, um, I'm sure that of course emotions have been, you know flying in different directions since the report was put out yesterday But I want you, you know to start with, you know, your thoughts first of all before we go into details What are your thoughts? I'm sure that none of it was actually shocked into you in the first place But what did you first of all think when you saw that report? well I've been on the panel and I left so some details were not actually Eating to me regarding what the eventual Report was going to be like However, he the part that was shocking to me was The part that the chief pathologist of legal states Actually said they recovered close to 100 dead bodies, you know, all over the legal states from Yaba, Mushi, Alousa and Kejha and like During the protest and this deteriorated my point because I was always at Alousa and Kejha and then police officers Shotted protesters at Alousa and Kejha also on the 20th of October 2020. It just seemed like that news Was died down because of what's happening at the leki toge And then we say that this isn't a massacre I mean in in motion there were reports that over 12 people were killed on the 20th of October 2020 In Yaba our police officers were going on a rampage of killing people As if we were in we're in san risa forest or something and they were fighting with terrorists Negotiations were killed all over leegas. I mean we should ask the government It's important that you you talked about emotions. It's important that at times put emotions aside and ask the necessary questions What was the hand I'm in demanding for an anti-police brutality by young people The people all over the country are to be further killed I said yesterday that the use of today are the leaders of tomorrow, but then you've killed us us all off How do you expect us to be leaders when what has happened? It is important also that our media begins to ask the necessary question that do we think our policymakers are actually Focused on ending police brutality or focused on how to just shut down citizen voices I mean the the voices of young Nigerians are being silenced in this country every day I Was one of my speaking engagements and I said that Nigerian state has no intentions of ending police brutality It seemed like I was being partitioned because I'm enhanced as protester But then I didn't know benefiting from my indignity. I didn't know benefiting from my from my oppression for my immigration It's obvious that they're trying to protect their political interests It's it's it's scary to think that close to 100 people were killed just in leegas We're not even talking about the other states Just in leegas close to 100 people were killed and then the government came out and said there was no massacre And it was an expensive amount of cover up an expensive amount of work Put put him by state government to actually cover this up the federal government the state government The the the security operators the management of the lcc Everybody was involved in an elaborate cover up. We deserve some explanations for crying a lot All right, so let's get to you know eat again It's over a year of course and finally the report is here as One who was part of the protest. Are you impressed with the entire process the time it took? You know up until this moment I mean the outcome and even the decision that has been put the recommendation that has been put out. Are you impressed? Well, um, it's important to know that the actual reports that is how there is not the reports of the the the original reports submitted at the To the legal state governments. This was a leech report. I guess, you know, it's going to be a final edit or something It is The report. I mean something that's going to definitely come out and then people see that it is but then it's a final edit I guess However, I mean the panel has done extremely well and they should be applauded. I mean Personally, I think that the panel should be applauded because despite of All forms of gas lighting and white or should an harassment by the government They still stood their ground and made sure that the truth, you know came out and In fact, I didn't expect even the panel to also put it in that the the conduct of the Nigerian had Was exacerbated by their refusal to allow ambulances to render medical assistance to injured protesters Which we also saw On live videos everywhere on the 20th of october for me, um One of the recommendations that personally Personally, I I I didn't actually agree with was that of an apology. I do not think that Well, people may need an apology but then personally to me. I do not think that protesters need an apology I mean, what happened? I like it all get was planned and premeditated the same very government That's also the gas lighting. I always want to mention line moment, but then Keep that down today. That's also the gas lighting and smear campaign or not to make us believe lies Would they have would they be able to do the right thing? I mean the question that leads to be answered is Who will be resigning from the positions of this apart from the military operatives that actually made sure that they killed a lot of people At a peaceful protest who were persecuting the prosecutors? Somebody gave the order. We do not need an apology We need justice the people that have come together to commit this mass atrocities against young Nigerians Have to be brought to book and then people keep talking about popular puttapania and how The reports may be thrown under the table. I'd like to say that currently nine childrens are going to stand and demand Because these people are no ghost the people that have been mentioned in the reports are no ghosts They're not they're not they're not fake characters. They should be persecuted people cannot lose their lives in vain who will not allow One people people from from somewhere to come and tell us that oh the reports would actually be out in a few years No Right now and as of this moment people have been named those people should come out and they should be persecuted Because like someone I know say, you know the the law of the land is bigger than than anybody I didn't mean to hope however from the wonderful people in the panel. Yes. Yes. It is applaudable and I think that there's actually hope for Nigeria or renewed there's a Talk about a white paper and of course the chief of defense staff lucky rabble and A few others from the government side have said that, you know, they are inconsistencies with the report They are also expecting or waiting for a white paper to eventually be put out Concerning this. How do you think that this would play out? And do you think that? You know an endurance should also wait for that white paper before We get 100 clarity on what we're dealing with here Thank you very much for this important question. Um, I saw the chief of staff, you know Statements as well and I'd like us to review the state And their enablers who join hands and cast lights in us Starting from there to the general of the federation. Um, Malami who said that Woodlands wearing army uniforms may be behind He actually said that probably Woodlands may have been hired to create a scene going on to the Nigerian army. The major general John, um, He went on tv to say that the live videos were photoshopped and cropped the chief of staff at the time general Major general talker, but I insisted that there was no single cops at the leki tobe issues in in december Where is he today? He has been given a diplomatic position. There's been committing so many war crimes against Nigerian citizens Where am I coming to the fact that chief of staff has no right to say that? Um, uh, whatever has come out of the panel, um It is inconsistent. It needs to wait for the white paper as obviously there is a leech report And there was the the final report also muted the legal state panel I mean these people are state actors. What do you expect to say? They're going to definitely I mean, nobody's selling anybody not to criticize or look at what the panel has put out However, these people these very same people have shown themselves consistent In denying what happened during the ensar's protest. So they're partisan and and and that is clear. However, I agree with you that um The public should wait for the white panel I mean we've seen the leech report and the leech report has given us, you know An adequate, you know view into what the final report is actually going to be like. So yes I think that we should wait um for the white paper. However, I'm also thinking I mean the state government was enacted in the panels. So um, it's a bit unclear what their white paper is actually going to look like This is important not to not to meditate, you know, please Aside those in government, you know What are your thoughts to those? You know around us, you know, those on social media who have now, you know, are still looking for loopholes Those who have said where the paper, you know, the document wasn't signed You know, I'm still looking out for, you know different loopholes here and there On I'm sure, you know, you know on social media. You've seen some of all those comments um The document was in sign. Yes, like I said, that was in the report. I was submitted to the legal state panel It was a final edit um That was leaked out for the people that were on social media, you know, I I Clashes with them at times and then I wouldn't want to go into that today but What we expect of very simple people that have denied The killings of their own fellow human beings People were killed people. I mean, I just want to have them bad friends or Try to deceive ourselves. We all know what happened. I let you talk it We thought without the panel's report We didn't need the panel report to prove to us that a massacre actually happened It actually happened and then these people, you know That there are there's paid state actors They've been paid to actually make Nigerians doubt their own sanity Even frontliners began to doubt their own sanity regarding I began to ask myself Did I actually participate in the protest at all because of the way these people went on with, you know, Sponsored propaganda. So I have no Intentions of actually having with people that have been consistent in denying the deaths That I have been consistent in denying the cleavage of Nigerian citizens. However, um, I think that There's no to said one thing and it's not directly applicable But then you said that if you are neutral in situations of injustice or you keep quiet, you know, um, I know I have no, you know, our problems with those who have been paid, you know to actually Sponsor to what they sponsored better to attack the protest However, for those that are neutral currently for those that are keeping quiet currently in this situation That's one to to say if you're neutral in situations of injustice You have chosen the side of the oppressor and for those that are currently denying the deaths of Nigerian citizens We remember every one of you We will not forget your enemies because those that can sit down and deny the cleavage Of of Nigerian citizens of young people Innocent young people that were killed. If one of you your enemies and then we will not forget that We will not forget the primary popularist states can Nigerian soldiers killed Answers, protesters and removed corpses to suppress evidence. What more, you know, what more What's what's form of humanity can can this be and then I'm going to come to our popular minister of information I'm lying on it. The Nigerian media will actually do well by asking the minister of information to to Explain his job, you know to us over the last one year I mean they've been a total of over five times that like Mohammed has been quoted saying that There was no killing at the leki tongue issues and it surprises me That he has been one person in this country to always armor on fake news and that I think he said he can cause world war three We can say that the minister statements about of what is disabilizing this country is actually want to spread a fake news Other than spiritual to power. He is consistently That's lighted Straight fake news white wash and told also an ember as he lies to the world Regarding the killing the garden the trauma afflicted on young Nigerians by the Nigerian government. I said yes I think I should ask now. He's the minister of information not ember vast. I mean Leaders should be in love with humanity and not publicity like prime moment You know, we understand that many of the people that were killed many of even frontliners that were you know I'm talking about the exasperate. Well, mostly children of nobody But then the children of nobody They serve a chance and life too We do not deserve to be killed off why the lights were switched off singing our own national anthem believing that our leaders were going to listen to us waving our national flag Killed by the very same people who are supposed to protect us. I mean, let us even check the cases of police brutality in the in the country to the devising cases of police brutality ever since last year Last year the Nigerian young people stood in the streets both within the borders of the country and beyond to demand for an hint of police brutality The expulsion the profiling the advancements, you know by Nigerian security forces What is the situation today? It's a case that the cases of police brutality not increasing and quickly each day Explosions. I mean, I talked on TV one day that the average Nigerian police officers, you know They make thousands of dollars per day extorting young people. It is ridiculous the way The Nigerian our Nigerian policymakers have now ignored what exactly But young people out, you know to the streets last year And then they say that we should not all we should not protest, you know We should keep quiet. How do we keep when we are being killed off? How do we keep quiet when the police that are supposed to be our friends are actually the armed robbers? Thank you All right, so, um I would read I'd like to read, you know part of that report. Of course, we're waiting for the white paper But let's just look at this page 295 of the lego state panel on the leki tourgate massacre report says It was alleged and corroborated that the soldiers had the advance packed at the leki tourgate and removed as many bodies and corpses as swollen protesters Which they took away with their vans. The report had earlier said the 11 Nigerians were killed by Nigerian soldiers until date It is the killers that have been asking to provide the bodies and what have you now also to say that Findings of this panel had confirmed that 11 people were killed by And their bodies were cut away in the army van so, um Do you think that the white paper will answer some questions because there are some valid questions that Nigerians have been asking prior to this time Who gave the order? Because looking at the leak report the leak report has not stated who gave the order We've not been able to find out who actually gave the order for us to have, you know The soldiers the military at the tourgate and we're talking about the bodies. These bodies. Where are the bodies? Where have they been taken to? So do you think that, you know, the white people will answer the questions of where these bodies are kept? How have they been preserved? Are they preserved or they have been buried? What has happened to the bodies? What's the current situation of this bodies up up until this moment? So do you think that the white people would answer some of this question because there seem to be a lot of gray areas? Well, I do not think that the white paper would actually answer the question of who gave the order We actually know who gave the order Only that we want clear answers I mean who could have given the order to our own security military operatives If not the people in power if not the people that were elected into power and then I also read the panel report Finality leak report and then, you know It's it's necessary to state one thing that Even the panel's report was at the most, you know, very Limited considering those that came to the panel you talked about how the people who killed Young people at the protest ground are still the same people asking Where are the bodies? A lot of families were intimidated into silence. I I just say that we may not actually Ever know the true numbers of casualties at the Lekitoria because No, for a fact more than the number that were on that list were actually killed. We may we may not Be able to ascertain how many people were actually killed many were handed into homes when they were threatened The panel report said that as well how many families were threatened into keeping quiet into not saying anything Many were, you know, there were voiceless sent to people people families were called that they would kill them And nothing would happen if they ever come out and say that their child was killed, you know At the Lekitoria, so I think that the panel has done extremely well in stating the facts that actually As as as the factor of what has happened, right? It is now up to Nigerians knowing that no one I mean the Nigerian army came to the panel and said that They were on their way to a job to Riot that is what I was Unknown riots that was happening there and then they happened by chance to stumble To pass by the Lekitoria gates and then they they gave water and Food to protesters, you know, and after doing this They did not go on to where they were going anymore. They went back to Bonikam. This is ridiculous So we know that nobody nobody from anywhere. I mean the normal cities They would not call the Nigerian army to say go to the Lekitoria gate Obviously the people that I mean I don't want to do that on national TV today But then the people that we elected into power actually they want Who other Nigerian major parties including the Nigerian police force? The people said that that even after the Nigerian military left Our very own police officers that we were trying to ask for an increase in salaries for I Tries that, you know, there should be adequate provision for them in in their service to the nation Actually also went to the Lekitoria gate and kept on shooting our protesters Not just through that night, but in the morning as well they were shooting our protesters after They did not only kill protesters. They shoot at them They also try to cover all their actions by picking up bullets from the crime scene in a bit to destroy evidence So we this this will not be sanctioned. Um, I'm except except we're not in the same nation. I mean that's when Security officers can go rogue, especially the Nigerian army. We all know that they do not just go on operations So the people that we put in power the people that are in charge of these, um, security forces Nigerians should be asking them the necessary questions Nigerians Time the Nigerians stand up and begin to ask the necessary questions All right, we know what happened at the Lekitoria gate our own our police makers and leaders ask to answer these questions All right, Rino We have Additional gunlano who's a league council for the anti-protestors joining us But Rino just before we we speak with mr. Gunlano I want you to share on you you're speaking about Nigerians must go and ask questions in 30 seconds Please just quickly share. Do you think that there is enough anger? You know after seeing this report across Nigeria today Do you think that this is really for what you've seen? It's you know, mostly just social media, you know anger tweets here and there But nothing, you know more than that In 30 seconds, please Well, I think that many young people, um after watching the live videos, but it's It's with all their mind, you know and hope in their in their faces Um and and see what happened, you know, and then the smell like the smear campaign the gaslighting campaign You know the propaganda's started happening many spreads The better part of this year battling anxiety, you know panic attacks depression losing our minds over the fact that many of us were Terrorists by our own governments who were at the same time actively denying the deaths of young people, you know And it is obfusc I'd like to talk about myself as a 23-year-old Nigerian. I'm in shock and That shock probably translated to I'm in shock but young people holding the national flag turned into targets in a firing range You know, but the lucky to get was turned into some sufferers like I said earlier So I'd like to ask you think that witnessing the the death of young people like me and then having the government deny it Enables me to continue believing that my country means well for me What is the assurance that I will not become a victim tomorrow? Many young people they are saying humans She put issues in our country. All right. But we Are you tired of humanity? I think that the word expression is actually shock. Everybody is shocked All right, all right. All right. All right. Let's bring in Additional gulano whose lead council for the entrance protesters. I'm sure you both met on the panel. Mr. Gulano. Thanks for joining us. Good morning to you Thank you. Good morning I remember the last time you were here when you of course were in the studio with us The certain things that you didn't go ahead and say, you know, because you were waiting for the panel to be concluded So so now let's get your thoughts. You've read the report I'm sure that some of the these things of course you are familiar with even before the report was put out But what are your thoughts on some of these very very shocking findings on the report This well, thank you so much the The findings are not shocking The findings that are shocking if they were Unrestricted but for those of us who participated Before the panel who appeared before the panel as council who had testimonies who Are this evidence by way of witnesses of petitioners are all cross-examined Witnesses brought forward by the Nigerian army the Nigerian police the legal state government the Lucky concession company. We are not shocked. I've said before And I'm still saying what I said is that has to Fair garrison Plenty of that As to industry plenty of that that work only remain will be the courage whether the panel will find the courage To see the truth as you find it Messy fully enough because that and that's why they came out with the findings that they must necessarily Come with you. I'm not shocked The Okay, so I asked Renault this question and I'm going to you know, put it back now to you The panel for from the report that we have seen I confirm that Bodies, I mean persons were killed about 11 of them and the army actually took these bodies away in the van The question is this report hasn't be able to it has not established where these bodies are at the time And who the persons I mean where the bodies are what is the current state of these bodies because families We have actually interacted with you know One person. I mean there's a member a mother who actually lost Her son in the course of all of this and up until now they don't where the bodies are So we're hoping that the report we probably would have given You know definite answers to some of this question as to where the body is right now And if the bodies were cut away whether they keep them who even gave the order and all of that I'd like to share your thoughts on this Yeah, thank you. Well, let me see something Before that panel The the main coverage and the main accused body are going to be the military And you'll find out that the summons were served on them You know was served on the I remember on Bello Who let troops on or Manka or Mata Who came to Put a horse to the shooting These were eyewitnesses, but in any way They didn't call They haven't run away You understand the run away. They only brought one with a driver Who was not an eyewitness who came to do a bear job for the military? But he was a testimony not workshop, you know But what I'm trying to say is that the body I like to principally taking away Copsies was not available before that panel, you know the runway and then you remember that Ah That is that of the security forces of Nigeria portray that they behave like Oro You know, they say I get Oro normally Yoruba. You know that court used to disappear people You remember when the security forces visited recently this year July 1 the home of Sunday Goho They actually killed people and took two bodies away those two bodies I get to produce you today So that there's nothing mysterious about about these things. They wanted to disappear evidence I'm one of the ways to try to disappear evidence is to take away the bodies away and the if If you know our history now, uh, there was the famous piece of apalara the cleric Apalara was killed in 1958 by some Rival religious groups up to today. His body was never found yet It was tried and all those people were tried and the squad of them were hanged. They were convicted So the issue of a way at the but at least that's one body way That we pointed out that Was taken to a place in Zadamawa by the family. They took him away And that's the one about another so that the as it is if we don't have a very very complex our report because The bodies who would have opened up Did not complete fully with the with the panel. This is the truth They managed to put us the military just managed to conduct the cost care a panic when they saw the Fire press examination the panic turn run away now. They are suffering it And you see if I may say this briefly. I had Leo The chief of army staff say something that the general music version of where I was just laughing How professional are you when you it used to be subjugated sub substituted to civil authorities? I mean if you are a modern army, you must be under civil control a civil authority Issue you summons. It's not it. You didn't come now. Your company is here Which professional body Shoot at you shoot at people waving flags at you. Which professional body how professional are you to able to come When you want to disperse our crowd Okay, Mr. Goodlander Mr. Goodlander for the wanted time. Let me just quickly chip this in before my colleague Come through with his question So how then do we now dismiss police officers and military officers when we cannot ascertain Who exactly shot at this persons because we're saying the recommendation. How then we disperse Let me answer you you see That's all we call corporate responsibility Corporate ability There are our troops That was drunk there I mean what what are you looking for the name? Of the troop commander is known Left hand corner or whatever Bello or something he was known on back I was there I mean There if the middle if look let me say something a new regime come a year a day Our accountability will come. It could be 50 years will come You see these people were someone come and tell your side of the story you refused the police that came That will tell you a lot of lies Before the panel who are not been there since 14th of october to 20th of october yet When the some on the 28th said they were not there at all on 21st were not there at all yet The diary the submitting the diary that the arms diary of the station that they submitted before the panel He showed that out of 35 policemen on the 28th that were supposed to be at Maricopa police station only 30 or 14 of them were giving hands for that duty All that was posted out and yet is DPO and The head of operations in Lagos who come to the panel as though We were sick. We are just stapled in our in our in our Para cabin in our station the same thing on the 21st You see about 25 people were out armed. So let me tell you Well, as they say You are the one who have refused to be responsible and apprehended criminal Your son is not a laundry man and it's coming home It's not even a fashion. Did I come home with the package of clothes? See enough enough evidence has been adjuiced by the court and straight To accountability Or internationally. There is no evidence All right to identify and tie responsibility to certain officers All right, I just know what I know That this this conversation can go on for days And it would you know continue to be you know To you know unveil many layers that need to be spoken about the international community The anambra panel the mushing masakas. It's also being called. There's so much that we need to talk about but we're out of time We of course will have to extend this conversation to a different day and bring you in again Additional gulano. Thank you so much for speaking with us. Reenu Odwala Thank you also for your time this morning and for You know the work that you've done so far We're looking for looking forward to speaking with you again also All right All right, uh, we're gonna move the conversation to something else Now another very sad story the death of a nigerian itu babalola in cul-de-voix Let's begin this morning with journalist debirunde after the short break