 Hey friends, this is Dan and Stephanie Burke. You're watching behind the scenes Divine Intimacy Radio It's a blessing be able to live stream to you out on EWTN EWTN's Facebook page and other places Wanted before we jump into the show. I wanted to tell you about a couple courses We have coming up at the Aval Institute. So if you want to grow spiritually and really be deeply blessed We have we have amazing courses. I wish I had all the time to take all of our courses myself But um, it's called the Chris one is called the Christian meaning of suffering according to st. John Paul II. It's a brand-new course. It's exploring his encyclical self Salvi Fiji Dolores and Just some reflections on his extraordinary life and what does it mean to be human? What are the sources of morality? I mean, it's really going to be a great course Simone Ritt doctor Simone Ritz Kala And I'm apologized her if I messed up her name. The other one is also. I'm very excited about is The mystery of knowing in the progress of the soul and st. Thomas Aquinas So that one is going to be about How does st. Thomas Aquinas's philosophy and theology teach us about the nature of the human soul? The faith how do we come to know God? I mean very cool stuff. Dr. David Arias. Who's a Thomistic scholar? And and a very good professor both not boring So pretty excited about those so you want to learn more head out to avala-institute.org avala-institute.org I also want to say one last thing and then we'll get get moving and that is EWTN's religious catalog they have a group of scholars in The theology department of EWTN that vets every book they have So if you're ever wondering, how do I find a good book on this that or the other? You're really not going to go wrong heading to EWTN's religious catalog You know as many of you know, I used to work I worked at EWTN for years and years and was deeply blessed by my time there But they take the faith seriously and they only carry books that are faithful from you know, publishers like Sophia Institute Press and Ignatius Press that sort of thing. So All right, ready to get into show. Yeah Well, I just wanted to mention that another place to get faithful authentic teaching blogs videos Everything everything that we offer is to subscribe to spiritual direction calm, right? So make sure you head out to that site so that we can always stay in touch with you because it's kind of if you know It's touchy on the internet Sometimes Facebook you see things sometimes you don't sometimes there's you have difficulty getting them the message out there So make sure you stay in touch with us connect with us there and subscribe to spiritualdirection.com You said that very nicely. I would just say this a little more forcefully That the cancel culture is coming after Christians, you know adds about the Eucharist on Facebook adds about, you know, Lent things like that books on Amazon The end as Stephanie said if you really want to stay in touch with us and never lose touch with us Subscribe to spiritualdirection.com and you can get all of our past shows and everything we've done on EWTN's out there as well Yeah, okay Shall we get going? Okay. Okay on your mark. It said go. This is Dan Stephanie Burke Welcome to divine intimacy radio your radio Haven of Wraths your hermitage of the heart your monastery of the mind Where we lift our hearts and minds to heaven to draw on the wisdom of the saints that we might understand how to navigate This very challenging life into eternity, right? Are you up for that? Yeah, and you know, I love that Line that I get to say in that is lifting our hearts to heaven, right? Which is the secret of the interior life. It's also the theme of our show today. It is Listen lifting hearts to heaven, right? All right. So we're it's a Q&A day So we've got a lot of great questions. In fact, we have them from our community asked the questions So we have folks out at an apostoli va.org and we put it out there and we got a lot of great questions from them Good, they're good folks. So This one's from Jim. He says I'm approaching a point in my prayer life where I think it's more about tasks to complete Rather than a relationship to be nurtured any advice on how to know When a tipping point has been reached in this regard hmm That's interesting, you know, I think I think anybody that takes their prayer life seriously that that makes that committed time of Sacred time Sacred space sacred attention and the spending time in mental prayer. There does seem to come moments Where you kind of say I feel like I'm Tasking or yeah, you know, maybe I'm doing too many vocal prayers or whatever. It's not it's it starts to feel a little You utilitarian I guess yeah, it's the word for it and I think that's always an invitation, you know, we talk about that a lot is that trials Even when they're little like that where it seems a little bigger than just little because it hurts a little bit and it's what's going on Why am I feeling this in prayer is an invitation? To a deeper call from the Lord, right? You think Yeah, I mean, I think you're you're on to something there It's you know, we we don't get to ask a lot of background questions or any, you know to to Jim about What he means by what he says, but I think this is more this comes more easily When you're doing a lot of vocal prayer or you know, which are prayers that somebody else has written a little more on the structured sign so It I think it fades in a good way when we're practicing Divina in the sense of just having a conversation with God focused on him not getting through stuff, you know We're recording this show. We just don't say when what time of the year it is but we're recording it during lent and We have a chapel and behind us behind the studio and We do the stations across Monday Wednesday and Friday and I've actually stopped I've minimized the vocal prayers in the stations of the cross Because I want folks to spend time on the reflections from St. Alfonso's Liguri Talking to Jesus thinking about Jesus's suffering, you know relating to him, you know Engaging with him at a more personal level rather than just okay. I I I kneel. I say the words. I I get up I you know, I recite our father then I sing the transit, you know, it's like, okay This is way too active. Yeah, and I think that is what tends to break down the more personal kind of prayer like if you and I Only interacted during the day on tasks or on an intellectual level Yeah, right rather than how's your heart? You know, hey I'm really struggling or would you pray for me or I really love this beautiful thing that I read this morning in prayer Or I love you. Yeah, you know So it may be just a moving away There's a lot of other reasons a person could come to this it could be it's a desert experience Could be contemplative eridity if they've been practicing mental prayer for years and doing very well But I think that's good enough for the moment. Yeah, I think and just to wrap this up on this question But one of the things that's important is to check yourself against the relationship. Yeah Is my prayer Relational with the Lord is this a place of intimacy that I'm communicating with him speaking to him or or Listening to him from the heart or is it words? Yeah, and that that's a shift That's a shift from the head to the heart and and it's also can be a choice that we make Yeah, in terms of how devoted we are. Yeah, well and also duty is not a bad thing, you know Sometimes people think I go to prayer. It's dry and whatever. It's like well, okay You know, you're human that means you're gonna some days feel great some days not feel so great And some days you're tired some days. You're perfectly attentive to the Lord other days. You're not He loves you anyway, right? He does anyway, right and yeah, and if you just show up I mean just showing up is I mean one of the most foundational Bits of advice you can offer to help people make progress in prayer and and get out of the Illusion that how you feel is the primary determinant of your success in prayer. Yeah, right now. Maybe an issue here, too Yeah, that's huge. How you feel doesn't matter, right ever, right most right, right? I mean if it's a surge of love then it certainly matters a surge of faith and hope Yeah, then it matters But if it's a contrary feeling that you know, I don't feel good. I don't want to pray I don't have desire, you know all those things there it only matters in the in the Realm of am I in desolation? Yeah, is this something that I need to fight right and renounce in his name and Then get back on track, right? Yeah, and if you're experiencing desolation or sloth the answer is, you know Fight. Yeah, just you know, don't don't be a wimp. Just keep rolling Mm-hmm and keep drawing near to God and you'll have better days in the future so be encouraged he does love you Jim and I I'm blessed that you are working so hard at prayer. That's pretty awesome. Yeah All right, this Dan Stephanie Burke with divine intimacy radio and we're talking doing Q&A today on Prayer the next question is is got some relationship To it and that is it's from Jeanette. She asked a handful of questions But one that relates to what Jim is asking is describe prayer from the heart Wow, okay Describe prayer from the heart This is one way I would describe it because I think there's a million ways that you can describe it, right? Yeah but as So so for the moms out there for or grandmas, right? that moment when your child or your grandchild runs to you and Just runs to you and They're all aglow and their face is like me ma or grandma or mama Whatever it is and and they're running towards you and they want to be held by you and they want to connect with you That feeling That's prayer from the heart. Yeah, that's this longing joy Maybe even sorrow because you haven't seen them in a while or your heart just aches to be with them Yeah, and you cannot get close enough That's prayer from the heart It can be a simple glance towards heaven of Lord, I long for you or I had a moment the other day. I was aching for a family member that's struggling That's that's kind of in a lost state right now. No not doing great and My prayer was and it was an interesting prayer and it came out of nowhere and the prayer was Lord Make sure this person knows that I love them. Yeah, and it was It was Exquisite it was such a beautiful tender prayer and I got a response like don't worry You know, yeah, don't worry, you know, that brings to mind something you did for me even recently In a marriage you can get I don't know into a routine, right? and You can say I love you and we do that regularly The other day you said I love you and Maybe you can describe why you said that but it affected me and it got in more deeply because I realize you were wanting to and You want it. You really wanted to break through the routine. I Mean, I don't I didn't ask you why you did it. So maybe you could talk about it, but There was something there about your deliberateness Yeah, well, it's the it's do you understand how much? Do you understand that these aren't just words? Do you understand that this is an ache of the heart? Yeah, and that I I want you to understand that you mean everything to me, right? That is also prayer of the heart, you know to the Lord. I love you Right, not just I love you not just thanks for everything good you do for me, but Thank you, you know from from from Your soul. Yeah, you know, I think that kind of prayer and and I hope you know, you can correct I think it's easier for women because if women are more attack better connected with You know, the entirety of their being is more integrated whereas men tend to be more compartmentalized and It did take me a long time as a as a Catholic, especially in mystical tradition, which is where I spend all my time dealing with the romance language in terms of prayer and Because when you have corrupted romance and then you go to holy romance in marriage or holy romance in Relationship with God it but the way you deal with it is practice. Yeah, you know, you do it a lot One of the reasons I love see an awful on this Liguri stations of the cross is he's effusive toward God in a very tender way I love you Jesus my love my innocent Jesus. Yeah, my tortured Jesus. Yeah, it's this this beautiful language that helps us understand Your you're important to me. You're precious to me. Yeah, you know and for guys, you did, you know, you just have to do it I remember when I first prayed Liguri stations of the cross years and years ago I was I was torn a bit about it because I'm very much oriented to where if I don't believe something I can't say it if it's not real. I can't deal with it. I just it's not I have other weaknesses But that's not one and so I would pray it and go Lord Please help me to actually believe this and eventually I did and you know, he he You know, he's the one that that draws us to him first He's the one that gives us the grace to respond to him. He's the one that you know, so so as you Live the reality that you desire and you orient yourself to God then he he will bring about That deeper kind of heartfelt love and prayer Yeah, and and isn't it even really that that what he says about I will take their Hearts of stone and give them hearts of flesh, right, right? That's what it is I think that was diverse was meant for men. I think so because you know, unless unless women are you know in sin, right? But I think that's what that is. That's the difference is your heart made of stone or is it made of flesh? Cool. So we get back from the break. We're going to continue to talk about prayer and keep answering your questions that have come in on prayer and The next question that we'll talk about when we get back from the break is when is prayer not really prayer Which is a good question related to Jim's question Jeanette's first question. I think it all kind of feeds in so okay We'll be right back 13 what do you want to go to? What is it? No, let's do this Let's do Well, are you okay? It's I can I remember the question. Yeah. Yeah, that's got it Do you so do you want to do it after you want to do it during well? Why don't we answer this question then we'll do that one right next so he'll pop that on the screen finish after this one Yeah, yeah, does that work? All right Okay on your mark set go Welcome back to divine intimacy radio. This is Dan and Stephanie Burke talking about Prayer and prayer of the heart and difficulties in prayer and great questions. We have coming in so Jeanette also asked what when is prayer? Not really prayer and and that just to set this up in my mind two things come to mind, but I want you to go first is Jesus when he taught about prayer and then Saint Teresa of Avila had something to say about that as well So yeah, yeah, so Jesus says do not babble like the pagans. Okay, so So you you hit on something really important because there's a lot of junk in the church today About non-Christian Eastern spirituality Buddhism mindfulness just absolute nonsense, you know Jesus doesn't need but Buddha's a created being Jesus created him. Yeah, he doesn't need Buddha right to help you to pray Right, I don't need non-Christian Eastern spirituality to help you to pray And in fact Jesus spoke against using prayer that is not in accord with with the tradition He said don't pray like the pagans pray, right? And then he said pray like this. So exactly right. What else comes to mind for you? What it when else is prayer not really prayer? prayer is You know if we are not connected to our prayer and I'm not talking about mindfulness But if you know the Lord says pray, you know Love the Lord with all your heart your mind your soul your strength with all that you are That's prayer right when we engage all of us because we cannot separate our soul from our body When if they're separated that's death, right? So we are we are soul and body So all of our feelings emotions everything we should to the best of our ability Engage all of those in our prayer. That doesn't mean we're dancing around even though I have prayed as I've danced But it's a it's a using all that I am so that I'm giving him all that I am it's very attentive So I I don't know what are you where are you going with this? Well, I I think There's this phrase that Catholics use have you said your prayers Oh, yeah, and I my quote a better question is have you prayed your prayers? Yeah, St. Teresa of Avila said that if you are not aware of to whom it is that you're speaking and who you are You're not praying right and I think mostly I see this when people are praying the rosary at this blazing speed I'm in affiliates the Lord with the bloods are down with a buzzer for love will do, you know, it's like it's not all one word folks, right? And I don't know how people do that I honestly don't I can't even pronounce words that fast and it's just like that's not prayer I know you intend it to be and I know that you're checking off a list somewhere that you believe that's a prayer It's not a prayer. It's not a prayer when you're working against the clock, right? And it's just spitting it out So I'm sorry that it just makes me laugh because I think of one particular person that I heard pray that one time before a Maths and I like a robot it did it was yeah, so that's not prayer folks That is those are words just going through the motions, right? Those are words and it's a race It's not a prayer or it's witchcraft, you know, it's like I'm gonna say this, you know, this Incantation and get what I want Rather than I'm gonna relate I'm gonna draw my heart to the blessed virgin or allow her to Allow me to enter into the life of Jesus or to draw me to God Yeah, if it doesn't have that relational component and this is coming from a doctor of the church We're not making this up and and it doesn't mean that people's intent, you know Right, it always goes back to it intent to me to some degree It's a lack of understanding of what prayer is. It's it's an immature prayer is what it is, right? It's impoverished. I guess is what it is So we want to go deeper than that We want to engage our hearts our minds to envision the Lord to speak and pray to him To invoke our lady to intercede for us or st. Joseph or whatever saint it is, right? It's a living relationship as real as you and I speaking right at this moment It's a relationship and and we need to have that at the center of our prayer. That's right Yeah, and folks I just created a mini course free course out an apostolate VA Dot org a POS to livi a Dot org and it's on Mental prayer so what it meant, which is what we're talking about So and it's based on my book into the deep which you can get at EWTN's religious catalog or Sophia Institute spiritual direction comm shop or EWTN's religious catalog either either place. I wouldn't go to the evil empire of Amazon Anymore as they're canceling good Christian books there, too So we need to stay closer into in the clan if you will yes support your Catholic organizations Good faithful Catholic businesses. It's important. So last question genie's asked asked a handful of them Okay, what is the best type of prayer during desolation and how to persevere in prayer through desolation and I What do you thought what is the best kind of prayer in desolation and not a persevere in desolation? Sometimes the best prayer is help me right the one you can pray is the one you can pray The one that comes forth right and we we also have one on Online somebody posted a live question that I think is also connected to this Oh, I forgot about right and the question is does prayer always need words? You know, do you always have to have words in your prayer? And so I go back to when you were in the hospital when you had been placed on the ventilator with COVID and I had just spoken to you. They had had me Say goodbye to you basically they said would you like to speak to him before we put him on the ventilator and We we both knew that this could be a death sentence People in my case nine out of ten die when they go on a ventilator Yeah, so I I was very aware of that, you know when I got to speak to you and when I hung up I I have to be honest. My heart was crushed, you know, I was I was aching. I was hurting. I was Fighting off any kind of despair from it. And so I came up here to our chapel, you know And what I did was I laid down in front of the altar I put my rosary in my hand and somewhere between my tears and The rosary there were moments where I just was at the Lord's feet. Yeah, there were no words You know, my head was on his feet Yeah, like Mary Magdalene just resting on him and just giving him my heart and Surrendering to him knowing Lord, you know, if it's your will save my husband But if it's not your will I surrender and I accept whatever you give, you know You you you have given me my husband and you can have him if it is your will to take him Yeah, you know and and that was so there were no words there But that was though I did pray those words but in between those moments it was just Lord, I love you. We are yours do with us whatever you will and that was a It was silence, you know, it was conveyed without words and it was just my heart and My life and placing that Near to the Lord and giving it to him at the foot of the cross. That's good stuff Hey, this is Dan Stephanie Burke with divine intimacy radio talking about prayer Questions and answers today if you want more of this kind of content, of course, EWTN is replete with awesome content You can also head out spiritual direction calm Where all of our previous shows you can find all of those out there in series We did like the father Gallagher on Disseminative spirits and then also if you're looking for a Catholic community, it's important during this time To join together with Devout on fire faithful Catholics who are all in for the faith or trying to be go to apostoli va.org And there's all kinds of content free content out there That we've produced and we we give free formation second and fourth Saturdays of the month Typically live online to people usually about 350 people show up from all corner 44 countries I think is last time I counted So it's pretty cool to be with all those awesome humans So I want to say one more thing about prayer. Oh, yeah, not not needing words There's also scripture that tells us that the Holy Spirit prays in us through groanings Oh, Romans 8 Romans 8 So I have experienced that you know at the depths of some agony and in fact it was at Rudaboc in France kneeling in front of our lady and that prayer was given to me and I say it was given to me because I did not initiate that prayer and It was a prayer of groanings for a loved one for a loved one that I was surrendering at that altar and And she promises that she will hear us, you know that she will intercede for us that prayer had no words And that was a prayer given and and we know that our prayers are given to us. They're they're from the Lord The other is that tears Sometimes all we have is tears and as long as they're not leading to despair That's that sorrow that we feel sometimes right That is also prayer and it washes away our pains the Lord uses it They can have a lot of grace in it. We actually had somebody Ask I think at our last marriage retreat. Is it okay to cry to cry and it was like, oh heavens Yes, right heavens. Yes, the Lord gave us our tears and sometimes we that's the only prayer We have and if that's it then we give him our tears, right? Yeah, exactly right exactly right So Next question we have is From Jose and he's asking and this isn't directly related to prayer, but it's kind of and I think it's the last question we'll do today How do you read how do you read John the John of the cross and the answer is slowly and over and over and over again My first word was slowly, right, right So if you're gonna you want to know the order to read John either spiritual canticle or living claim of love first no doubt Then the other one that you didn't read one of the two and then a scent of Mount Carmel and then dark night of the soul But that's the best order to read John. He also asked about don't start with dark night of the soul No, do not that's how you can you'll never want to read John again Impact of God by in ain Matthews if you just look up impact of God Matthews You'll find that union with God. It's not impact of God. No, no what there's two Oh, okay, when we brought publication was called Union with God by Saint Gabriel Father Gabriel Saint Mary Magdalene Oh, okay, that's what which is a great book by Sophia Institute Press, okay that I would pick up if you want to understand John and then He asked about Saint Teresa of Avila's work So that's easy because she wrote an autobiography the book of her life We're actually going through in our community now and then introductory texts for Saint Teresa of Avila a great one is fire from above Or is it fire from within by Thomas to Bay? I think it's fire from within by Thomas to Bay Yeah, and I know I'm fairly certain the WTN's religious catalog has that one So those are some ways you can dig deeper into prayer in the interior life Also, I teach a course foundations of prayer in union with God at the Avila Institute I mean really Avila Institute spiritual direction calm possibly VA eat a BTN I mean treasure trove endless treasure trove of Spiritual support for you. God be praised we get to do this every day and we're out of time or When with our life I should say we're up, but okay Okay, so until next time may the God of peace make you perfect in holiness May preserve you whole and entire spirit soul and body irreproachable at the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ