 You're welcome back. You're still watching Plus Politics on Plus TV Africa. The presidency has chided the main opposition People's Democratic Party, PDP, over its comment on the economic situation in the country accusing the party of plotting to destabilize Nigeria. The presidency also said that Nigerians are not ready for another PDP misrule, not now, and perhaps not for a long time to come. The presidency was reacting to the statement issued by the People's Democratic Party through its National Publicity Secretary, Debo, or Logung Nagba, where it accused the president, Mohamed Abu Hari, and it's his all-progressive Congress of abdicating its duties amid hardship being passed through by Nigerians. Joining us to discuss this, we have two gentlemen, Dimeji Fabi'i, a member of the People's Democratic Party, who has been accused of plotting to destabilize Nigeria. And we ask him about that. And Shagun Shopiton, he is a political and his gentleman. Welcome to Plus TV Politics. Thank you very much. I'm happy to be here. All right. Let's tell you, Dimeji, what is the People's Democratic Party saying about the situation of things in the country? Because we read somewhere some days ago that they were talking about a violent uprising similar to Ansar's. Thank you very much. PDP is just playing his role as an opposition, and they're just saying it as it is. It's no more news. The situation, the country has presently found itself under the leadership of the APC. So PDP is only calling the attention of Nigerians to it, which doesn't necessarily means that they are calling for uprising or anything. All over the world, even at Trans-Democracies, the opposition parties, as it were, will look at issues, look at the conversation in the country, and then make a statement as a kind of warning to the government to up their game and rise in the defense and in the favor of the sustainable country. For APC to have said that PDP is trying to destabilize Nigeria, it's not only uncharitable, it's equally very, very ridiculous. Nigerians are wise enough to know what the situation in the country is. Is it in the area of security, is it economy? Very recently the APC had a problem not only to itself, but to the generality of Nigerians. So as far as I know, the PDP is only saying it as it is. They're just calling the attention of Nigerians and the government in power to please do something about the plight of Nigerians. This is not a better deal, this is not a good time for the citizens of this country under the leadership of the APC at all. Look at our debt profile for instance. At the end of 2021, debt profile has been to about 39.9 trillion. Now when we look at the budget for 2022, there's this deficit of about 6.7. It means that at the end of this year, debt profile would have been to about 45 trillion. That's not adding up, where do we take that? It means that the next president is coming to take over the leadership of this country who have a lot of work to do. He must bring in serious ingenuity to be able to get Nigeria back on track and help Nigerians citizens to feel the benefit of the good governance. So that's what PDP is trying to say. PDP shares in the pains of Nigeria. PDP is sharing because all of us go to the same markets and all of us know what's up. Look at aviation fuel for instance. Look at a petroleum pump price to about between 400 to 500 naira in some places. Look at aviation fuel, about 700 naira per liter. This is unacceptable and this is really what PDP is talking about. We shouldn't deceive ourselves. This government of APC has failed Nigerians. They even failed themselves too. So rising it and defending what is not defendable is most unfortunate and beyond the part of the APC. PDP is only saying it as it is and being on the side of Nigeria as they've always been. That's why we are telling them that Nigerians, look, you need a better deal. This guy, you have tested them. You have tested two wives in the 16-year rule of PDP. We knew what the records are there. It may not be perfect, but it's not as small as what we're facing under the leadership of in-depth government of APC. So my brother, Nigerians are better and nobody needs to spoil them into crisis or agitation. They know what to do. Okay, fantastic. Shagu Shopitong, what's your take on what he, the major and indeed the PDP are saying about the situation of things and violent uprising if things don't change? Well, so I think the first thing that we must note, especially those of us that are not necessarily partisan is that there's a lot of politicking going on and we're approaching elections. So you get a lot of this going forward over the next 12 months or maybe 10 months or thereabouts. In fact, yeah, 12 months until the elections themselves happen. We're going to get a lot of back and forth between these two brothers. And I think, and I call them brothers because it's very, very important for Nigerians to note that there really isn't much of a difference between these two parties. I mean, with all due apologies to my brother and my co-panelists, there really isn't much of a difference. The PDP and the APC are people by the same characters who have run this country down. Even if you want to be charitable and start from this democracy from 1999, it's the same characters. They just swap parties, they swap platforms as it suits their personal interests at that moment. And then if you want to go beyond 1999, it's still the same characters. You know what I mean? It's ridiculous. So, yes, I agree with a lot of the stuff that the PDP have said. Much of it is rooted in fact. It's a fact that the Nigerian economy is in dire straits when dire waters exchange rates wise, inflation wise. Just name it, interest rates, the productive sector manufacturing. Let's not forget the crisis that we're experiencing now with petroleum products and all that. We know that there is a global incident that is pouring or that is behind that. But look beyond that. I mean the Nigerian economy is not in good shape. Nigerians are not in good shape. You don't need to be reminded how the middle class, anybody that can afford an immigration plan now is living the country in droves. It's terrible, right? And that obviously is driven by the fact that the system is simply not working for the people they should be working for. The only people that are still staying behind are the people that can't afford to live. So yes what the PDP is saying is not too far from the truth but my problem is what their motive is. The motive is their motive to get the country to work. Is their motive to get the APC to do better or is their motive to create the impression that suits their own agenda so that they can also get back into power and continue the sham. What we have as governance in Nigeria right now is a sham and it wasn't better under the PDP before this government came and it's not any better now in spite of all the promises that this government made that gave so many people so much hope. It's been such a huge disappointment for those that vested so much hope in the APC but I think what has become very clear and very obvious to those that choose to be deliberately independent of thought is that there's no difference between these two parties so I call them APDPC. Fantastic. Because it's not the same group of people. Dimajia are you there? Okay he's there. Dimajia you've listened to your brother or your counterpart Chopiton he's simply saying in other words that the PDP's cry is simply a case of a kettle calling pot black. What do you say to this? Well that's not true as far as I am concerned and I know as far as some Nigerians are concerned. During PDP there were appreciable achievements that that government of PDP made and I'm here to see those appreciable achievements of this current government and I can tell you how much was Zola to Inera during PDP time, how much was a bag of rice, how much was a petroleum pump price at that time or was the foreign director at that time. Dimajia he agrees with all of this he's just questioning your motives and he's saying that you are the same is what he's saying. That's exactly what I'm telling you that we're not the same it's not the same even here we have some actors who move from one party to the other but the programs of both governments are not the same how many people were being killed on daily basis during PDP time did we see where people were being slaughtered on daily basis as we are seeing now what was the level of insecurity during the PDP time and now we can continue on like that even the corruption profile let's balance them within the good government so the truth of the matter is that I don't believe that you're saying you talked about corruption profile Dimajia Fabi and you were saying we should balance the corruption profile of the PDP side by side with the corruption profile of the APC so who is more corrupt? APC is more corrupt that many people were tried under APC do you know what I mean? Yes please go on let's do this a senate president of this country was almost sent to jail for corruption I mean under PDP how many high ranking government officials of APC have gone to jail how many? so let us be honest with ourselves what PDP is simply saying is that look Nigerians you're not getting a better deal on that scope okay so yeah are you saying that the PDP in the 16 years that it ruled Nigeria was not as corrupt as APC so is it now we are corrupt but we are not as corrupt as demo is that what you're saying? Corruption leaves today corruption leaves in the presidency leaves in the villa we know Nigerians know was it not there under the people's democratic party because we have cases to show I mean I'm sure if you open your case for a party's case file you would see that it's full should we go? should we start? like I told you bring it up do you understand? should we talk about Dasuki gate should we talk about the Desihani case should I go on so I mean are you saying that the PDP is corrupt but not as corrupt as the APC I ask you again I am just telling you that the corruption under APC is quite monumental and they are there for people for Desihani people want to know so for me not to dwell too much on that let me tell you this Nigeria now everybody knows are the precipices and we go to this point because we don't have a leadership that is ready to frontally address issues PDP raises the issue of N-SARS as if we properly address where Nigeria youths were maimed killed and all that the rest is history today this is not what we are talking about what did the people's democratic party do in its time to end police brutality can you tell us please in 16 years should I give you the cases of police brutality before 2015 you want me to give that to you my brother PDP has always been it's not only Nigeria what did the PDP do in its 16 years to end police brutality PDP did quite well by trying some police officers who were engaging because I cannot hear be telling you the details of it but we know but how many compared to what is happening the brutality under the APC government this is the reality the facts are there you are a journalist don't get your facts and bring it up alright let's go to Shegun Chopiton do you think that the people's democratic party has a moral right to refer to the N-SARS protests and talk about police brutality and use that as a yardstick to further its own it's a political point what they are trying to say that's what I am talking about well you know I am a believer in the freedom of speech freedom of expression is guaranteed for everybody and you know under normal circumstances one would have been happy to have another voice an opposition voice that is robust, vibrant and articulate and the PDP has tried to varying degrees of success to provide that voice in the past some people would argue that let's focus on the message and leave the messenger for a second so if we look at that then I would say oh well maybe they don't have a moral right because they were no better for these brutality issues that we are talking about just like you rightly said it didn't start last year it didn't start with N-SARS it's been with us for a long time so again let's start from 1999 so what measures did the PDP government put in place to improve the very obvious you know the issues of the police are obvious if you underpay a man you are paying him such an amount that is inadequate to take care of his basic basic needs and then you give him a gun it is an inevitability that he will use that gun to further his own personal interest it's just logic it's human interest and human nature so what did the PDP do in its 16 years in power at the federal level remember that the police is a federal agency directly controlled by the presidency and by the federal government so what did the PDP do in those 16 years to get the police to be better equipped to be better funded to be better paid to be better personneled with better quality human beings educated people that think well to be better exposed to modern policing techniques what did they do we all know the answer nothing right so if you want to talk about the moral rights of the PDP they don't have it but that's not to say that you know they don't they can't speak to the issues that are obvious and confronting us as a country today having said that I would like to say and this is more to Nigerians to anybody else that if come 2023 right it's very very very likely that it will be one of these two parties that will produce your next president and hopefully the national assemblies and the government houses across the states and the state passes of assembly and on the strength of the evidence of the last 20 23 years nothing is going to change I think we need to get this message and get it loud nothing is going to change in 2023 regardless whether it's a TICU whether it's TINUU whether it's APC whether it's PDP nothing is going to change if these guys are the ones that imagine 2023 so what do we need to do as Nigerians we have to come to get that to rally and mobilize the what madam obvious a question you called the government voted this we have a population of about 50 million voters that never participate and I think they're even more than that that don't participate in the voting the electoral process because they don't believe in it they believe that it's all rigged and it's all a waste of time I am saying to Nigerians that we've got to wake up and realize smell the coffee and realize that this guys that have been driving this boat or this ship or this car have been driving us in the wrong direction consistently for the last 23 years and it's not going to change so can we find a way to get an alternative platform to get alternative people for goodness sake we've got quality minds quality minds buying and sorry coffee buying and offering themselves across the various government platforms can we find a way to get them into office and kick these guys out kick out the APC took out the PDP we have to go a final word from you Dimeji Fabi I would have loved to ask you maybe Nigerians should come out and protest against the government what should they do against state governments including PDP states who are owing humongous amounts in debts you know I don't have time to go into that so final word from you well thank you very much I think Nigerians deserve a better deal and for them to get that PDP has made mistakes and they have realized those mistakes another chance for PDP will give Nigeria what the values desire I'm so sure about that Nigeria is a unified country because the country is in power shape and that's what people like Atee Kudai the man said cannot do it with his experience with his party thank you very much we're out of time Dimeji Fabi is a member of the People's Democratic Party Shaggy Shopeito is a political and he's a gentleman I'm sorry because of time we have to pull the plugs but I want to thank you very much for giving us a very robust conversation thank you Dimeji and Shaggy thanks for having me thank you alright so plus politics before we say goodbye let's quickly run you through our Voxpop segment of course we round up today's show with Nigerians telling us their thoughts as regards to People's Democratic Party and their ability to rule I'm Kofi Battels plus politics return tomorrow good night by the grace of God this country is for Nigeria and I believe anybody saying he will develop this country it's a verbal talk personally my opinion is that God is the only one that can put somebody that would make this country to be a promises have been made several times and I believe where we don't have anybody to say actually this is the person that will make the that will be the God sent or let's give any person a tryer because with a tryer it may even work out no if I remember that it's not all about the party it's all about a person and his own personality so unlike me I don't vote party but I vote People's personality so whosoever that wants to come in maybe as a PDP and if he believes that will not fail Nigerians he can come in there's no problem about that and what the masses need is for them to give us a good result we've given APC 80 years and for me as a youth there is nothing tangible that we've done so let's try PDP or if possible let's try any other party who can actually spring up with someone new let's try up new things for me personally I would say let's try up new things because we are tired of this old man we've been seeing since 1999 so let's try up new guys to me I believe in God choosing president for us it is only who God choose that can develop this country not ask anything to do whether PDP or APC even in another party let the person be God choosing candidate I think that is the best thing for us in this country