 I despise people. I care about myself more than I care about them. Do you think you're a bad person? Yeah, I think yes. So what pills do you need? No, I just go to sleep. You can swallow a chicken's dead body, but you can't swallow a little tabla. I don't care. Not going to affect me. Things look different when you have a gun to your head. And it's the oppressor's decision to kill you. Do you agree? Do animals deserve human rights? Yeah, we agree. You agree? No. What about cows? Do they deserve human rights? Well, you can't eat them once they have rights. You know that, right? You don't eat them? Of course. If they don't have rights, they don't have true protection. Just like human beings. If we don't have rights, nothing's stopping me from enslaving and killing you. And the same with animals. Are you saying it just for now or the entire course of history? What am I saying? That they deserve human rights? That they always deserve human rights or just now? They deserve, they always have. So you think they always... It's like we, have we always had? Yeah, but what about survival of the city? Yeah, does that justify killing other humans? Because I'm a lot fitter and stronger than a lot of people and children and a lot of women and a lot of small men. Can I use that as a justification to violate humans? Survival of... Okay. And why not animals? We don't have to eat them. Like, you could be food to a lion too. Do you want to live? You deserve to defend yourself from that animal and kill them to defend your life. Yeah, but you don't deserve to be food. Yeah. Yeah, but what I'm saying is you said the animals are food so we can violate their rights. No, that's what I'm saying. Okay. Now we... Yeah, I understand. But I'm talking about like a thousand years ago when people didn't... Luckily we're not there anymore. Yeah, you know. That's why I asked. Yeah, but... They always deserve human rights or just now? Yeah, they always have. Deserve them because they're sentient. Like we have always deserved them. But there's been horrible things that have happened throughout history. And if we had human rights earlier, a lot of things could have been avoided. But I'm also saying if a lot of humans would have died themselves so why are the animals more important than the humans? No one's saying animals are more important than humans. No. Yeah, but I'm saying they always deserve the human rights. Yeah. Then a lot of people would have starved if they hadn't eaten them. A lot of civilizations are based off of rape and murder. Not all of them, though. No, but the fundamental cornerstones of the world were based off of slavery. Like we built civilizations from, you know, invading and enslaving and killing and raping. Like a lot of civilizations happen because of killing, pillaging. I still think those humans deserved rights, you know, at that point. Yeah. Yeah. That's not what I'm saying. I'm saying what about the people that died if they didn't? Yeah, but what about you now? So you now you agree with me you should be vegan, right? Yeah. We're not debating in a time machine. We're not going to go back in history, are we? Yeah. Yeah. I said I agree with you. Yeah. Humans have always deserved rights. Yeah. Okay, but what about humans that eight other humans in survival situations happened a lot? It's happened throughout history. It happens on islands where there's cannibal tribes. It's happened in times of starvation. People have eaten other people, so they're food and they needed to survive. But humans still deserve rights in those situations. They deserve rights. Maybe they should have deserved rights, but... So now? I don't think the humans side is for that. Yeah. It should be the same, but like back then they don't understand the way they eat. You know, I'm saying animals are more important. I'm saying they're just more important than to be killed for a burger. I agree with you. Everyone should be vegan. Why aren't you? Because every dish is served with me. So same with me, Italian and Australian, Scottish, which... You name the tradition. You name the culture. They all eat me. Yeah, I know. Does tradition or culture... But they're like federal. No, but I mean now. Can you now? I don't think I can. You don't think it's possible? I'm sure it is. Okay. So it's very tasty. Because a being tastes good, does that justify killing them? Not exactly. So what can I do? You can be vegan like you know that you can. Everyone should be. You believe animals should have rights now because we're not in a survival situation. She's not vegan. I can't take pills. What do you mean? I can't take pills. So what pills do you need? No. You're not allowed to take pills? I can. Why not? Pills are natural. In farms, animals are fed B12 supplements. So you're already having a supplement? Okay. You can get liquid B12. It costs a lot of money. No, it doesn't. No, it's cheap. In my country it is. No, it's not. It's cheap. Do you live in Israel? Yeah. There's no excuses in Israel. No, she's talking about the liquid. It's cheap. $30. And you can get one injection every three months or you can eat fortified food. So when you buy a cereal... So wait a second. Do you think it's okay to get B12 from me? From my body? No, it's not. Do you kill me for B12? It's not. So if it was a choice between me and taking a tablet, what would you do? You would get B12 deficiency when you could just take a tablet. I just want to follow it. Okay, what about liquid B12? A choice between me and liquid B12. Would you kill me to get the B12 from... because I have B12 in my body. You have B12 as well in your body. I could eat you for B12, but that would be wrong. Wouldn't it? It is. So why do we get to kill animals and eat them for B12? Isn't that wrong? First of all, everyone would be a lot easier to kill. To kill? You can have a sanctuary. You could rescue a cow from the meat industry. But I'm just asking you why you're not vegan. And you said because of a supplement, a tablet. So everything that happened... Have you seen what happens to animals in Israel? No, not on a farm. In a slaughterhouse. Yeah, of course. So you see what the animals go through. You see them get slaughtered against their will to live. And is this okay because of... you have to take a tablet or a liquid B12? First of all. Okay. Because what it sounds like is you believe having to take B12 justifies or makes okay what happens to animals. The interesting... I know what you mean. You make it more humane, maybe. Yes. So that's all you would give to the animals? You just make them suffer less and then kill them? I just can't eat dead tablets. But you can eat their dead bodies? You can swallow a chicken's dead body but you can't swallow a little tablet. No, you're absolutely right. No, I'm just saying. What's worse, like killing a chicken and eating their dead body and swallowing that or having like a little tablet or liquid B12 or eating... You know when you have biserial? Soya milk. It's got B12 in it. They add it. Not enough. No. Or I would go to the doctor every three months... B12 injection. Boom. Done for three months. The animals don't deserve what we do to them for B12. I don't deserve to be killed for B12. You don't. Imagine if I said, you know what? I don't want to take a tablet. Sorry. We'll treat you nicely first. We'll treat you better, more humane. B12, though. It's not right. It's excuses. If you've seen what happens to the animals, they're bad excuses to do what we do to them. If they deserve rights, like you agree they deserve rights, they would be protected from you, too. Even if you want a B12 too bad, you're going to have to take a tablet. They have rights now. Do you know what I mean? Because that's what rights protect me from. If someone wants to rape me, if someone wants to enslave me, I don't care if they get pleasure from it. I don't care if they really want to. The law doesn't care. It protects me from psychopaths that want to harm me. What about the people that have the religion that's written in the Bible or Quran or whatever it is that they should eat meat? There's no religion that mandates meat eating. No religion. Not even Islam. Not Judaism. Not Christianity. Maybe they don't mandate it. But they support it. They support it, like in Islam. It's permissible. The Quran was written 1400 years ago. It's a different world back then. Prophet Muhammad didn't have an iPhone. Yeah. What's your point? My point is that we have moved on. We've got technology. We've got access to vegan food. We have supplements. We're not in a survival situation. We've got more than enough food to eat. You know, I may agree with you. But at the end of the day, I care about myself more than I care about the animal. Yeah, but no one's saying you have to care about an animal more. Yeah. Just more than your taste. Let me finish my sentence. Okay. I despise vegan food. So you don't need vegan food? It's just not tasty. I don't think so. You don't need bread, hummus, beans. You don't need pasta. You don't need vegetables or fruit. Actually, I do. You don't eat rice? I eat rice. Well, that's a vegan food. So how... I mean, you don't eat pizza without... No, it's not like a sub... like vegan meat. Okay. What if I despised animal foods and vegan foods? I only really wanted to eat people. Is that a good enough reason? Try to eat people. No, no, I'm saying is that a good enough justification to kill people and eat them? No. Why do you have a double standard? For humans and animals. You agree they deserve rights. But you're saying because you despise vegan food, it's okay to kill them for that reason. You think that? Do you think that's heartless? A bit. Yeah. Do you think you're a bad person? Not necessarily. But everyone can... If I said animals deserve to live, I don't want to kill them. I'm going to eat vegan food to save their lives and make sure they don't suffer and make sure they have rights. And then another person says, I don't really like vegan food. I think they should die for me, have their head cut off for me. Who is the good and who is the bad person? We are. You're the bad person to the chicken? Yeah. And who is the good person to the chicken? The one that eats vegan. You see, it's easy for us. You have rights. If you didn't have rights and you were a victim, you would know what it feels like. But because you can make a decision, I don't care. Not going to affect me. Things look different when you have a gun to your head. And it's the oppressor's decision to kill you. Yeah. I said I agree with you from the start. You don't. You disagree with me. You disagree with animal rights. If you think that because you don't like vegan food, it's okay to kill animals, we disagree. Yeah. You don't agree. You might say you do, but if you go away and eat animals, you disagree. But I guess I disagree. Yeah. You just waste your taste. You like the taste. I know it's like, rapist likes to rape because they like the feeling. Yeah. And that doesn't mean that violating human rights is okay. It's not for a taste. Not for a pleasure. If we like to eat someone because we like the taste, it doesn't justify killing them. Then why did they... Conditioning, cultural conditioning. They're completely disconnected from what happens to animals. They don't have to face what I see the animals go through every day. They don't go through the farms. They don't go in the slaughterhouses and smell the blood and see the fear. They're disconnected. That's why. I have seen. I believe so. You have seen? Yeah. Animal. In the baron, in the holidays. Yeah. In the mass. Yeah. Do they want to die? Probably not. When you've seen the animal die, did they look like they go willingly? Actually, they're killed in one day. They do suffer. They kill them in one slash. Yeah. I know. And they suffer for a minute with their throat slashed open and they try to breathe. They don't die instantly. It's the way they do it. They don't die instantly. This has been studied. They take about a minute to die after having been hella slaughtered. One minute of suffering. You don't need to do it as a Muslim. It's permissible to be vegan. But when you do suffer one and then you donate the food and in the baron it says when you donate food you get more like good deeds and therefore you get a higher chance to go into heaven. You can donate anything. You don't have to... No. It's not required to sacrifice an animal. It's not seen as required. It's mandated. It's not one of the... It's not mandated. It's like extremely supported and it's the biggest thing and it's what the prophets did. Yeah, but the prophet also didn't eat much meat. The prophet also didn't want to harm animals. The prophet also said if you harm even a sparrow unjustly, yeah? Yeah. You'll be judged. You'll face God. They may not mandate it but happen they eat meat and still save those things. Maybe the prophet thought they had justification back then. He said unjustly. But now you definitely don't have any justification. Have you seen what happens to animals? Factory farms didn't exist that back then. The dairy industry where they kill the cows after they stopped producing milk didn't exist back then. They didn't know fish were sentient beings that feel pain so fish aren't even included in Halal guidelines. They didn't have the egg industry back then. They didn't have business selling animals and egregious suffering in factory farms back then. Things have changed. Perfectly fine to be vegan and Muslim. I know plenty. And you avoid all suffering to animals. You avoid anything that, you don't know what's haram and what's not haram if you're not doing slaughtering yourself and not even then, it's needless to slash an animal's throat. It's needless. You don't have justification. But anyway, it's really nice talking to you. I appreciate you staying because I know it's uncomfortable, but I appreciate you staying because it was an uncomfortable chat, but it's not a comfortable topic, you know? So I have to be, I have to be honest. Oh yeah, so the woman before said she wouldn't take a B12 tablet because it wasn't natural but she was smoking a cigarette, had an iPhone and did little of these other things. She said she physically couldn't stomach a tablet when you have liquid B12. She said it was so expensive, but it's really not. And a packet of cigarettes is probably about 100 shekels. Let's look it up right now, actually. Cigarette price in Israel? 20 to 30 shekels a pack. All right. Liquid B12. So here we go. Fast as old. So she doesn't have to swallow them. 50 shekels. So about the price of a packet of cigarettes, packet of cigarettes might last her a week. That will last her three months.