 Just before we dig into it, I'm Simon Clarke, I'm a member of the EGU in the EGU office. I was going to start us with a quick highlight of the EGU Code of Conduct. So as part of our Code of Conduct, the EGU values diversity and equality and sees it as essential to ensure a respectful approach to scientific research. We don't tolerate discrimination, harassment or intimidation and anyone who behaves in such a manner will be removed from this webinar. This webinar is about informing and also encouraging constructive discussion over implementing LGBT plus networks. So please keep questions within that remit and keep discussion polite and in good faith. So with that over, I'll just hand over to Anita if Anita would like to kick off the webinar for me. So I'm Anita Di Chiara, I'm a career scientist representative for EGU and I am postdoc in Rome and California in Palo Alto. Thank you. Hello, I'm Mike Pride Jones. I'm a postdoc at Cardiff University and I'm soon to be a research fellow in the new year. I've been involved with EGU pride for about two years on and off. And I'll be talking to you towards the end of the presentation. Yeah, yeah, it's me. Yeah, I'm Marik. I'm part of EGU Pride since the beginning of the year and I'm also highly involved in Apex Germany. And I currently finished my master's studies in ocean climate physics and now waiting to relocate to Finland to start my PhD. And we would then just start with the presentation. You see here today it's, we give a short introduction first or like short introduction on why we build a network and why LGBTQ networks are important. And then we have a presentation of tools and techniques and at the end we have around four questions and yeah, we can talk about also your experiences with networking and or your questions in regards what we experienced with the techniques we use now in each year pride. And if we continue with the next slide. Thank you. So just to maybe shortly outline why why building a network is important. The current state so the information from this slide is from the exploring the workplace for LGBT plus physical scientists and it was published in 2019 so it's rather recent by the Institute of physics where astronomical society and various society of chemistry in the UK. This survey is actually up for you like it's a PDF you can get the results for everyone it's really good made for either queer people or allies who want to get involved what they could do to change something in their workplace and it has actually it includes kind of like a to do list what everybody can do so I really encourage everybody to look into it. But for today I just wanted to bring you the statistics you see on the left hand side, and it's about people or LGBTQ people if they considered leaving academia or their workplace in research and science. In regards to discrimination they experienced and if you look at the left hand side there you see 28% considered sometimes leaving and then when we say like from overall or queer people in the study. And when we look in on the right hand side you see that from the trans people. 20% considered a leaving often signs or academia and due to discrimination. And what is great about that. About that study is that it's not only giving you the statistics what is actually the current state but it also gives you increased areas of increased action and one thing they really highlight is building a visible and welcoming community. And this is really important if stuff that LGBTQ stuff is visible that this is just helpful for the senior people but also for the new people coming in. And this is kind of like why building a network is really important and also building a network can be a visible but also an invisible like a visible place for the outside but also can be just like an area for support and connection. And we can go. Yeah, for connection and that is kind of like what we mean with welcoming and belonging that is kind of like the intermediate phase of that so we have representation matters that is also what the study highlights. And we often think about representation just in things which happened in the past, which is why we include here on the on the lower part to important figures from like career researchers and science or trailblazers, but also on the right hand side you can see this the logo of the campaign 500 career scientists it's basically a webpage where you can browse through active people in active scientists browse through. You can browse through location you can browse through what they're doing actually and see that there are a lot of people already out there. And that is really important for this welcoming and belonging part to see that you're not the only one, especially for early career scientists that part is really important. Yeah. And if we go then one further slide, another thing which is more like not in the part of representation but for the kind of like I think for their own self care or for the benefit of each individual part of the community is that it can act as a mutual support platform So, in our case, EGU pride has a discord server and we will talk about that later in more detail, but it can act as a safer place for exchange and support. And this is just like the speech bubbles are just examples of of conversations we had so we can stick with the one on the left hand side is actually something I learned so I will move to Finland soon. I figured that even in our small EGU pride community, there are people already living in Finland, and I could connect to them and just ask random random bits and pieces about moving to another country, which is not directly influenced by me being a queer person but it helped me knowing that this country might be a welcoming place and I could also ask you a related question for the country and how they deal with stuff and so on and that is really important. And it gives you more sense for a new country than just knowing you go there and googling stuff about it. The other thing we we also did or do sometimes is just like if anyone is interested in a coffee break and I think we all experienced some sense of loneliness sometimes during the last years and several different places and stages of Corona lockdown but I think it's also good to to reconnect sometimes in your work they just be like okay. You could sense a coffee break right now and sometimes it works sometimes not, and it keeps the community together. And the other one is just like you have a place where you can vent about homophobic experience queer phobic experience or stuff like that or just exchange and see like okay this happened can we do something about and do we want to put our frustration into action and something like that so this is kind of like everything which can happen under mutual support and is a good thing to do and this is the perfect transition to hand over to for what we actually did in Egypt pride. Thanks, Mark. Yes, thanks. If this is a great base that inspired us back in 2019 to suggest having a gathering just a very formal one junior general assembly and then we all move the activities of Egypt online so. So I'm going to talk about it in the next slide. The first did you pride was in person. It happened at the ECS every career scientist lounge, there is a space dedicated to a career scientist at the Vienna Center, and it was a socializing event to connect and and welcome people and next. And then the, then from the first pride event. We organized a second pride event that happened online on zoom. It was, it was socializing it was a very good way to connect to people and we, we started thinking of topics that we can develop and things that we can do together within beyond. Next, please. And I can copy paste here some like, and many of the responses when we asked but sit down that. So what was the experience in a academic career out of being queer scientists affected the career and the, the responses were of course some positive negative with feeding of isolation and difficulties in with finding role models, not knowing where if you can open up in your working place with your with your professor with your colleagues. So it can be scary is sometimes when you move to new countries and you don't know how that is going to affect how you interact with the working community. And sometimes it's actually a positive experience and finally when finally people can open themselves up. And the, so these are some of the responses structured and we also asked other questions but the feeling was that we wanted to, we wanted to kind of inquire more on how we can connect to the community that is existing within EGU. So, a work and we do together. Um, so in 2020 we, we run say meant me to ask you a question. And it's how how being queer scientists affected the career. It's, it feels not so safe to be on field work, maybe go and work and accept the job in in countries where it's not so very welcoming. And also, we, you know, you need, you also need support and support can come from allies as well. So some of the allies attended the pride event and say as an ally, I haven't had any effect but I know that some people can be affected in the workplace and beyond. So and sometimes it's also good to have to have a community around and making connection with the rest of the queer community and I feel that being online this is in a way a bit. It's easier, maybe, maybe I say, next slide. And so this year, we also run an event online. But the group has grown, and also EGU has more formal group, and they're dealing with equality diversity inclusion issues within the structure of EGU. So we felt inspired to coordinate the EDI committee members. And we want to actually start finally a new LGBTQIA plus group. So we connected with members and we finally did. I think next slide is yours. I'm sorry. And Mike is going to talk about it more in depth, but I want to say that we want to keep being involved in and find and grow the community that is existing. And we plan, we hope to do for next gen assembly, whichever the format will be, to have an online icebreaker where you can meet before the assembly and talk to each other, meet each other informally online. We plan to have a reception, if possible, to meet and then we're going to have the EGU Pride event and gathering and we're going to have a space at the EDI booth. This is all in progress. For next slide. While, when we first met this year, we decided we wanted to do something for the community. I was to try and make EGU more welcoming and more representative as possible. We went and asked ourselves what we want to do about it. And so we came up with a lot of ideas, but we, and we focused on a few of them that currently ongoing campaigns. And then these are three examples. For instance, we wanted to, to promote name changes in EGU journals. That would be very beneficial for, for people that want to change their name in their life due to marriages, to, to transitioning whichever reason we want to make sure that that is implemented EGU journals. We can talk about it later if you have any question about that. Another thing we want to do, we will try to do is to have a place where we can, we can have name pronunciation guideline for session conveners that would help to, to, to use the right name that you want for being presented introduced before your scientific session. And we want to generally right raise awareness for our community. I listed three of long term aspiration that we wish to, to pursue. But these are, again, more long term so we, you know, we can't promise much but we want to try and get gender neutral toilets at the physical general assembly. In the future, we would like to have pronoun budgets at the GA, we would like to work for a good practice guide for fieldwork and implementing as well, what is that the EGU, EGU current guidelines. I think these, the next slide is yours now Mike. Okay, thank you Mike. That's right. Sorry, I'm just going to find the right button. Thank you very much Anita. So yeah, having introduced the group and the kinds of things that we're doing. I wanted to. Yeah, I wanted to sort of talk about some more practical ideas and more practical tools and techniques that we use in terms of how do you start your own community. Obviously you're very welcome to join EGU pride. But there's what we want to try to share with some of the experiences of how you start a community so that if you wanted to start a community within your institution within your own country. In any circumstance. Here are some of the things that we thought about. And what I wanted to start by saying is talking about online communities versus real life. And that I would say that we found that both sides have real strengths and weaknesses, and that they complement each other very well so the value of an online network is it lets you reach people across a great distance it helps to bring a community of people who might otherwise feel quite isolated. But on the other hand in person meetings are more can be more congenial, you get to know people a lot more quickly if you meet in person. And so ideally you want to be in a situation where you can meet in person occasionally, and then maintain the connection online between meetings and that has worked well for us in terms as an EGU network with this focus around the annual conference, but also, I've seen it work well in other organizations. That's not to say that you can't do a purely in person or a purely online community, but having this kind of hybrid model works really well. And then for the rest of the webinar I'm just going to talk about the strengths and weaknesses and some of the different online platforms, and how you might think about using those online platforms for running a community. The first sort of simplest, oldest form of technology is that is the mailing list server, and the one I've shown here a screen grab from my email inbox here from cryo list which is a mailing list server for the whole of the atmospheric science community. And the wonderful thing about a mailing list is it's very low effort. It's very accessible everyone has email pretty much it's it's straightforward to use. And it works very well for posting announcements and making connections across the community. And it's less availability less good for discussion because everybody gets everything. So what you tend to find what we tend to find with cryo list is that they're the majority of the postings on it these days are announcements because there are tens of thousands of people on it I would say, and maybe maybe not quite that many but certainly certainly certainly thousands of people on it, and the, and you can browse it on the web but it predominantly comes to you in the form of an email in the form of your email. But it's a, it's a good, it's a good way to run a basic community and it has the advantage of being very simple and very persistent. So moving on a bit moving along the technology timeline a bit. The, the next technology I'll talk about here is web forums, which have been around really since the 1990s and are very, very mature technology now, maybe have gone a little bit out of fashion I think maybe there's newer shiny and things have come along. But there are loads of good reasons why web forums are a good idea. And as I said, the technology is very mature so they are built to host very large communities with diverse interests. It's very straightforward to split up conversation on different topics so that people only see the stuff that's of interest to them. They usually have moderation tools, and you, they also have kind of update an information tool so that you can get an email when a particular topic interests you gets updated. The other thing nice thing about forums is that you have a choice about whether you make them fully open to the web which means that they turn up in searches if people Google for a particular topic, then it will bring that forum page to the front. But you can also make them a closed community where people have to register and maybe their registration has to be approved by a moderator before they take part so you can make a completely closed community using exactly the same technology. One of the drawbacks is that they're not always that good at stuff other than text, a lot of them will take images but it can be a bit clunky. And I looked around to see whether there's a sort of good free platform for web forums there are a few around but there wasn't one that immediately sprang to mind and that makes me think we worry a little bit that some of these free providers may not be available for the long term. It's of course possible to host them on your own server or on a cloud instance if you have the skill to do that you have the resources. So yeah, definitely something to consider and they are obviously still quite widely used in a number of contexts and know a number of the professional institutions and societies tend to tend to use web forums within their own websites. Facebook groups. And this one I've picked picked here again because I've got a Christ very exciting background. This is the Facebook group for the International Glaciological Society where which is predominantly the tends not to be much in the way of discussion it tends to be postings or leads to journal publications, webinars, events that are going on tend to be advertised there. So the Facebook groups are very easy way to create discussion group and post items of interest but I would counsel a little bit again at the risk with Facebook is that Facebook really wants your real identity. Not everyone is happy with that especially in the LGBTQ plus community. I certainly find I use Facebook less and less these days and I would again think carefully if your audience is already on Facebook then Facebook is a good place to use it but I wouldn't necessarily start a new community on Facebook Okay, moving on and there is a one of the more popular tools at the moment is slack which is a commercial tool intended primarily for use within a single company, or within a single organization and it does get used for online communities but I would warn you a little bit against using slack for running a public online community, because it's not designed for use on the open internet it's intended for use within a single company. And so it has almost no tools for moderation slack have been criticized about this a number of times, and they say well this is a workplace tool so any penalties for misbehavior should be dealt with through the normal process of being disciplined by your manager. And so that means that, whilst I have seen slack use quite a lot for communities within academia within science. It works very well if it's a small typed group, and where you all understand one another, and I would not want to run a public community on it. The other limitation with slack is that the free version has a limited history on it so the history of what's happening disappears if after a certain period of time, unless you pay for it. They do have the option of an educational nonprofit discount and one of the organizations I'm involved with uses slack has been able to get a good discount on slack so that is worth thinking about. It's quite a good way to run the internals of an organization but it's not necessarily great for as a public community. So finally, I'm going to talk about discord which is what we're using to run the EU pride community and it's my current favorite. And it has a slightly quirky history and it developed originally as a communication tool for people playing multiplayer online games. So actually it's most basic feature is not the text based chat that you see here on the picture, but actually an audio call and actually this has been subsequently extended to make a video as well so you can use it like a zoom call. It lets you talk to people in real time and it supports screen sharing so in a more flexible way multiple people can share their screen and you can and any one user can flip back and forth between looking at different people's screens. But you can have multiple channels and switch between them very easily you can have text channels, audio channels, you can have different things going on at the same time. It does have nice support for images and video and emoji and stuff like that, and it works well on phones and tablets. What I, the main reason I like discord is because of its history in gaming and being on the open internet has really excellent moderation features and discord company that runs it, provide a very helpful guide to how to run a server and how to moderate it and how to encourage good behavior on a server. It is free. It's paid for by a company and the way their business model works is that you pay for bonus features and but they, the free version is certainly extremely usable there's always a risk of course that you lose the community if the if the company collapses but that's true of lots of things on the internet. The other thing I would like to say with with discord is that yeah it's, it's been used very successfully a few conferences in fact at each year 2020 I went to a poster session in discord which was run by Ralph Hutt from one of the companies, my apologies Ralph he's on the call I forget which rich institution he belongs to, but he did that very cleverly where he had an audio channel and a text channel for every single poster presenter within this discord community, and that meant that you could literally browse around and talk to the different authors, as if you were in a real poster hall and I was very clever I definitely put me on to the potential of discord within science. So moving on a little bit just talking about moderation. So, and moderation is something that's really important. And it. And so we have this concept within a community that there is an acceptable policy of what kind of behavior is acceptable a code of conduct, and that somebody needs to be able to enforce that and that is the role of the moderator. And my message really is these think about this from day one. If you're starting a new community, particularly if you're doing if you're going to post links to your community online, you will get undesirable people, one way or another and it's best to be prepared and have a process for dealing with it. Now we when we set up a view with the view pride discord server. And initially, because I created it I was the server owner and had power to do everything and then in the first week we kind of said okay, as a community we're going to choose some moderators. We're going to make and choose a set of rules and we, and we then did that and set that up. So now we've never needed more than moderation tools but it's, but they're there in case we need them so there's definitely something to think about if you're running an online community. I can't just expect that everyone will play nicely unfortunately. And then sort of finally, I want to talk about the risk with a lot of online communities is that they fizzle out that there's an initial burst of enthusiasm and then nothing happens, because everybody drifts away to do other things. And so it's really important, particularly in the early stages of community but also on an ongoing basis and I do need to get a little bit better doing this, that we create regular small interactions that encourages people to be on the online platform, and that we try and arrange for people to chat with one another that we put updates we post and in live in the community because otherwise you, if nothing happens then nobody will nobody will take part nobody will look. And so the other nice thing that we tend to do is to return to trying to arrange periodic synchronous events so we where we all meet up together whether that's online or in person. And that helps to kind of reinforce the community and break everyone back together and obviously with General Assembly as well, and being in a hybrid format now, we've got the opportunity to meet in person and online. And Anita was talking earlier about the online icebreaker. This is one of the things we learned from the 2021 experience of the General Assembly is that that was online that year over two weeks. And by having our EGU Pride meeting right at the beginning of those two weeks, that helped to create the community and get people to know one another in advance of the conference event. And so that's why we'd like to kind of take that on for the next General Assembly to have this online icebreaker, get people so that they get to know people, get to know a friend, get to know who's interested in their research. And then they feel that they're a bit more included when they actually meet up in the real event. So that's all we have for you in terms of the presentation. Just going to leave you with the point that there are the EGU Pride Discord server. I'm going to put the link in the chat very shortly when I close the presentation invitation link if you would like to come and join us on the Discord server. And also to remind you that tomorrow is LGBTQ by a plus in STEM day STEM is science, technology, engineering and mathematics and celebrating people working in those fields. And it's also pride in polar research, which is a LGBTQ plus group of people specifically working in polar research, which is my field and marics as well. Is there having special event tomorrow as well so keep an eye on your Twitter for that and I'm sure there will be lots of exciting stuff going on. So thank you very much and any questions. Yeah, so please use the Q&A box on the bottom of the zoom to answer questions if you if you would like to. While we wait for anything to come through I just want to ask, I'm going to ask Marik and Anita just to comment on the value of a local organization within your institution and versus the value of a an international network. There is a question of from Jenny, and maybe we can keep your question for the planet, at least active for later. Yeah, fine. Yeah, I will read it out loud. So as an ally, I'm not sure whether to sign up to discord server and attend events. I don't want to take up space from an LGBTQIA plus member or take over the same space but equally I want to be a better line here after the LGBTQI plus scientists. Is there a good balance. You want to answer Mike or I go. I can comment but I equally you can you do you want to comment first. I'll go first. Okay. So yeah I would say that there's a there's the balance with this is essentially your guest if you come into our space you're a guest in our space. And so the, you're very welcome, but you're, but you should bear in mind that you're deaf, you're definitely a guest in that environment and that, you know, that the you should, you shouldn't then attempt to then set the agenda and drive the discussion. And you're there primarily to listen, or, you know, to, to connect with people on a friendly basis but I'm interested to hear what America needs to think. Yes, I, I think the role of allies is very very important. And sometimes what it's me is maybe is just to ask a question that you never asked anyone to. So I guess the, of course, the, there is a code of conduct and there is, there is, it's, it's a safe place so we need to burn that in mind. But if one has a question I find it's very useful, because then you can kind of also represent that question and bring it outside the community and help answer doubts that you had or questions or anything. I would welcome allies and to join the groups, people can identify or not identify or come out or not and be just welcome in the community. Of course, you know, as you, as you want to support out to find out how to support the community, this core channel is a good place. And at the same time, maybe you, you, you, you want to stay there and look if it's, it's, it's good as well, but also interacting I think it's a good component of the benefit of the community. So I guess bearing in mind, there is a, is a community that it's focused on some topics that we just mentioned and, and it's a safe place. So if, if anything bad happened, then we have the moderator role, the writers role, sorry. So, Mark, do you want to add? I would add that I think it's just like a topic where it's like there's a lot of pros and cons on every side. And I think in the special case of the Egypt right server yet, as we haven't really talked as a serve like within the community yet so much I think it's like a good reminder of us to think about how we want to handle the discord server. So we're still in the process of setting it up in the step like not setting it up from the baseline but like establishing how we want to use it for what especially. And I think for the for the, there are parts of it which would be nice to have allies in for the, for the action part where we wrote now or drafted letters in the pronoun change that is something where it would be nice to get help. And where you don't want to load all the work in that regard just on the on the shoulders of the career people or career scientists, but in the other place like giving a safe space so maybe that's just a question we can't really answer yet because we haven't talked like we are just like three people kind of like blasting out their opinion so I think it's a good note for the future to that we think oh do we want to have a ally subgroup in that channel do we don't want like how to how to handle that and I think the general answer is it's it's it's their benefits in everything and if you want to support people I mean you're here today which is a good good start and also being to going to the events sharing the rents and announcements and maybe just like at the first having to look at what we what we announced publicly could be is a good start so but I think that is mostly the questions mostly for us to a reminder to think about that. Absolutely. Thanks. Yeah, thanks for the question Jenny. And I would continue reading out a second question so we got an anonymous question. How would you recommend going about setting up an LGBTQ plus network space within a university department, especially ensuring that the organization and effort doesn't just fall on the shoulders of one person. Maybe just bluntly say I don't have experience with that because I come from a really really small department as in we were sometimes less than 10 students per year. So, that was nothing on my priority list. So I would hand over to the other people who have maybe some more experience with that. Yeah, I would like to add that as for setting up a group you you kind of first want to find exactly some other people because it's at the beginning it's kind of a bit of an inevitable that one person starts it. But then, then by doing some socializing events. You can find the support in the community days there. And as Mark said is the point is very small, it could be that it's hard at the beginning, but that doesn't mean that it's not useful it can be really useful for people that are not that do not feel comfortable and they can find a good support, even if it's just few people in the EGU 2019 few people and then it's growing then we have a discord channel and the EGU, it's a, I would say it's quite a big community with thousands of members. Yes, I want to stress also that this group is a group and we are just three people expressing our opinions but of course we may not represent all of them. And then when you start and from a, I don't know, a coffee, a coffee, a social coffee or, I don't know, and then from there. You can start growing in your department, or also a university level, even if the department is not very big. Yeah, I'm just going to add so what I would say, I think it's a really nice thing to do within your department if you can get the critical mass of people and I would say that you, you really need two or three people as a minimum to get it going. And looking at some of the organizations that have done this well in the past places that I've worked or places I know where colleagues have worked. It's often possible to get your, don't, don't neglect your technical, your administrative staff and the teaching staff within the university. And certainly within my department, it's been really interesting to meet people and discover that, you know, several, several of our technicians are LGBTQ class people. You know, and meet them and build them, build a better connection that way. And so, yeah, try and get a small community. If you are worried about not having enough support, then go and if you can go and talk to somebody in a managerial responsibility, you know, maybe a head of department, maybe somebody who has a responsibility for pastoral care. In research institutions, I've actually seen the HR department often help make that work. So yeah, those are all places you can go but you start, yeah, start with a core group of two or three people who are interested in making it happen, and then try and grow it organically from there, but it will be a certain amount of work. And if it doesn't also don't be afraid to let it fizzle out if it's not going to work, and maybe combine it with, you know, a university wide network or, you know, go bigger if you need to, if you don't have enough critical maths to make it work. I hope that was helpful. I would like to add another comment on this. I think that it's, it's also important where, in which country, what the background is, because of course we would all hope that HR is helpful, but sometimes can be not helpful, if not the opposite. I'm not saying from my personal experience but I can really imagine in reality what it's harder. So then there could be other informal ways to find the community that is out there. And so if it's not, if it's not the formal way, then there is somebody in the, in the university that can, can join a community. And in other countries, in my experience, sometimes there is a kind of a stronger structure in the departments, lecturers, and it's different kind of structured lecturers, students, they don't connect and talk too much sometimes. But if that is not the case, then it's actually quite helpful, as Mike said, to find people in the entire department. It is at the beginning easier probably from your, so if it's a postdoc or if it's a student, it's probably easier to start a dialogue, but that doesn't mean that, you know, what I mean is usually you're not alone. Very much so. Any more questions or should we come back to Mike's question from the beginning, I need to tell you we're starting to answer the question from Mike about the online and the in-person communities and the benefits. I think if I remember that question right, it wasn't that direction. We were talking about the advantages of having an in-person community and an online community, this is what you're saying. So I would guess that it's the size also and how you reach the community. So if you can be in person, it's got a value that it's very hard to substitute with the online events, but at the same time the online gathering and communities would allow participation from countries and places where it's actually really hard to find a community. In my opinion, the benefit of having a physical group, it's invaluable, but now that we are all moving to more of an online life in a way that the social event are also online, I think it's really a great opportunity to connect to people that you will not imagine to me. So I would say the department outside your area of expertise or study, here we are, all our researchers and Polymunks is talking about things that, you know, you cannot imagine otherwise. So that's really a great value of this online communities. Mike, do you want to add something? Well, only very briefly, just to say that, yeah, if you can, if you can build a local network that provides, that supports you on a day to day, week to week basis with your colleagues, that's really great. And then, you know, you can end up being a member of multiple overlapping networks with different organizations. And, you know, there are, there are some networks which are tight and some which are broad. So, you know, there is, there are organizations in my field, there are organizations for people working just in polar research and then in geoscience and then in science and technology and engineering more generally. I think I've been involved a little bit with all with with organizations at all sorts of levels. So I think there is real value in a, in a plurality of networks and having the opportunity to take part in those networks really is really valuable. I think I just would like to add one point about online networks. So for me, like, I feel like there's no place or time where it's too early to engage in the online network of your research field. So like conferences are expensive and even for early career science or just for like for master students, it's really expensive to go to a conference, but it nearly costs you nothing to join a webinar or to engage in the early career scientists, researchers, however they are called groups from your research field. And I started doing that at the end like not each of your pride specific but I started that in regards to polar science at the end of my bachelor. And that was immensely valuable for me because I got to know how people do research and other places got to know other younger or like early career scientists. And it helped me ease into the feeling of going to conferences or like meeting with all the strange, not unfamiliar fancy people I know from publications or stuff like that. And I have the same feeling with each of your pride so on the next physical meeting I would be rather easy because I already know people and I kind of like experience in a safe online environment. And that is something which is incredibly valuable because online communities have such a low, low entry level. Also you can engage and get active if you want to change something I want to get active online communities are have a really low entry level because normally that's always somebody needed to edit a presentation to read through a text or you can collaborate so so easily. So I would encourage you just like not only for pride but also for other things if you if you want to get active in your research field or in your like in the small one in the in the geoscience field or in the climate field whatever the field is, there will be a place or community out there where you can engage and where you can push topics, and when you can have rather faster feeling of having an impact. And that is something I really enjoy about online communities. Thank you. That's really that's really insightful point. I think I would like to, I think we, unless there are any remaining burning questions I think we should wrap it up there. We've had our just over 45 minutes. It's been really interesting and thank you all for coming. And just a reminder to everyone that's a part that if you would like any, if you think that you would like the questions you asked. I think there was too too many issues with it, but if you would like any of the questions you last edited out of the recording, because it will be the whole webinar will be available on the use you video channels after the event. So let us know if you would like that if you would like that removed. Yeah, thank you very much everyone and yeah, we wish you a very good afternoon and hope to see you maybe on our discord server if that's of interest to you. Thanks very much. And thanks for organizing it and being in the background salmon. Yeah, thank you.