 And now we are live, live on the metal voice and who do we have today? Wow, two great guests. The first, the new frontman for Alcatraz and of course Malmsteen and Michael Schenker, frontman, singer, Dougie White, a veteran. What's going on, Dougie? Good evening, nice to see you. Nice to be here, thank you for inviting me. And of course, legendary British new wave heavy metal, guitarist, lead guitarist, Jackie Chambers. What's going on, Jackie? I'm good at you. Good, good, good. So this is a cool show because I got like two great bands that I really enjoy thoroughly and two very talented and veteran musicians on the show today. Careful, careful. All right, you're not that good. I'm just kidding. And first, I like to say happy birthday. I know Giles' birthday and your birthday, so happy birthday to you. That was yesterday, right? Yeah. And also, I just want to sad note before we start this show is dedicated to my buddy, Luke Huvarez, who passed away unfortunately one year ago today due to COVID-19. So I just dedicate the show to him and it was very sad, but we move forward, we move forward. So guys, exciting news. Girl School in Alcatraz going on a tour package in UK, November and December 2021. Hold fingers crossed that it'll still go, right? Yeah, we hope it's up. Yep, so I guess, Jackie, you tell me first. I'll start with you. Tell me about this upcoming tour with Alcatraz and what do you think and a little bit about it? Well, it's a couple of the gigs we've done. Girl School did last year, just before COVID-19, actually. You've got to think we've saffold again. Everything needs to happen as we talk. We just did the usual UK tour dates, like the Bannermans and Trillions and Eleven and the Waterloo in Blackpool. It's a lot of places people are familiar with in the UK. The gigs that people go to quite a lot is the scene, as we call it here. So yeah, we're looking forward to a little package deal. It'd be just good to get out and play. We haven't done it for so long. I mean, it's like, by the time we get on stage, it'll be about a year and a half since we played together. So we're really looking forward to that. We're going to have to have a practice and everything. Oh, what's the name for it? What's the name? Oh, my God. All right, Dougie, you tell me, you know, going out on with Girl School on tour. I don't even know if you ever toured with them in the past, but, you know, what does this mean to you? No, I haven't toured. I haven't done a package tour before. So it's got to be interesting, you know, especially on the bus. It's, you know, because it's meeting new people. I mean, I don't, I mean, I've only, I've never, I met Jackie at Winter Storm last year. I think Neil Murray introduced us. And I know Denise a little bit, but that's kind of it really. And the guys from Alcatraz have only met maybe twice. You know, so again, we're going to be having a band practice or two to get up to speed because, you know, these are songs that I've never sung before. And then we'll have songs from the new album. And then when they were doing Alcatraz with Graham, they were doing some back catalog stuff from Graham's time with Rainbow and with Schenker. So we're going to be doing the same thing. And so it's going to be interesting just to see how all this sort of pulls together for us, really. Fascinating. We're going to be doing the same thing, you know. Nice and fresh. So Jackie, tell me, okay, we'll get into all the set list and all that, but in regards to new music, girl's school, have you been working on some new music? Fully, you should say that. Actually, yes, for the first time in years, we're actually going to record a new album, maybe this year, maybe next year, and we're not sure yet, but we are writing, as you say, right now. So what's the goal then? Like, what are you looking at? Like in a year or two years from now? Or is the song, what stage are they at? It never really takes us that long to do an album. Usually a couple of weeks in the studio, we just knock it out straight away. It's just nice and fresh that way, I think, rather than, you know, laboring on it for months like some people do. We just go in there two weeks, just get it down. So we're hoping for this year. Are the songs completed? I guess that's my question. We've got two or three completed and we're working on others at the moment. Literally, we're getting together this week. We're down to do it on Zoom and things like that, you see. It's all very new to us. We haven't actually got it together to get on Zoom to do it yet, but it's going to come together this week, we are hoping. But there's ideas, and I've got a little, sort of, like, studio logic audio here. So I just kind of demo a bit some music. We sort of swap between me and Kim. She gets some words. Then she'll like a little riff, whatever I've written. She'll say, I can use that for this. And we put it together like that and then bring the other two in and Trace is writing bits on bass and everything. So we're just trying to work like that. It's a different way of working, but it's what we have to work with right now. So we're making it work for us. So we're going to have a new album. It's six years, I think, since Gil Tres. Wow, wow, all right. Looking forward to that. Now, Dougie, new music for Alcatraz. Now, here's the big one. You know, like, I've heard, I've heard one demo of this new, and I was kind of skeptical, because, you know, I'm used to Graham, right? And I was kind of blown away. I thought, this is like, wow, this is like some serious, some serious music here. Tell me about the new music with Alcatraz, as you leading the charge. Well, Jimmy and Joe and I have been writing the bulk of the material. Not me, Jimmy. Jimmy Waldo. Jimmy Waldo. That would be awkward. And Joe Stump, we've been doing it. When I do an album, I like to overwrite for it. So we're looking at having 15 songs. 12 will probably make the album, and then the three that don't sort of sit in the pocket with the album will be as bonus tracks for something else. In the same way that people used to do, you know, when you only had 37 minutes, now everybody's wanting an hour. And I always feel that it's good to have, when you listen to it in its entirety, that you can say, well, that one doesn't sit with the rest of the tunes. It doesn't mean that it's not a good song because hopefully all the tunes that we're doing are that. Like you've heard, I don't know which one you've heard. I don't want to name any tracks. I don't want to give anything away. I don't want to give anything away. That's fine. But the idea, I mean, they're looking to have the album released before the tour. So that people have got a chance to hear me singing the songs that I've written for and with Alcatraz. And then hopefully they'll come along and they'll enjoy them the same way that they enjoy the classic Alcatraz tunes. That's what we're hoping for. That's the ambition. So you're saying there's gonna be an album released so the tour's in November, right? Yeah. November, December. So you're saying the album's gonna release right before the tour. Yeah. At least that's the goal. Well, I mean, when Giles approached me, and I mean, Giles approached me at the end of last year to see if I would do the tour with Girlskill. Because it was originally planned for, I think, March, April next year. And I said, I'll only do it if we do some original material because there's no point in going out. It would just be an Alcatraz cover band. And that is of no interest to me at all. So we agreed that that's what we would do and that's what we've been doing since the beginning of November. Okay. We've been knocking ideas back and forth. Prior to hooking up with Alcatraz, I had just signed a three album deal with Frontiers. And so I had that album to complete which I completed on the 30th of December last year. So I've been working non-stop on new Alcatraz songs since then. And we're up to 12 at the moment. And we'll get another three in the bag. We'll have 15 songs to choose 12 from. And I'm gonna ask you what the musical direction's gonna sound like, but now it's Jackie Jackie. Since you guys don't have an album coming out, what is your set list gonna look like on this upcoming tour? I mean, are you gonna be playing, you know, all of Hidden Run, or are you just the new, the old, or a mix of everything? Yeah, it's gonna be a mix. I mean, the last tour we did, it's probably gonna be similar to that one to be honest because it's like, you know, we were putting in new material and I don't think by November. So I've had time to practice it really. So yeah, quite a few of Hidden Run, the usual, you know, you race for the devil as well and that sort of thing. The things you expect from us, couple of guilty, guilty of sin. So you are gonna play the new stuff, you know, the, and it's good. I mean, you know. Yeah, I mean, the stuff that I joined we'll play a couple of them obviously, yeah. Take it like a band and guilty of sin we pretty much do every time now. Yeah. You know, Dukie, you've heard though, the latter or the later girl school material, but it's strong. It's just as strong as the earlier stuff. It's surprisingly strong because I'm used to the first four because I kind of grew up in that time period. But when you go to the newer material, you realize, man, the last four or five albums are really strong and I guess it's because of you, you know, your input there, right? So Dukie, what's the musical direction gonna sound like on this new Alcatraz? If you were to describe it, what do you think for fans? Meatloaf meets Kylie Minogue. Oh, good. Love it. Give me a good tour. With some Billy Joel thrown in there. It will be a surprise. Well, what era of Kylie? I want to know what era of Kylie. What's a Nana song? When she had the big cuddly hair. I should be too lucky. OK. Well, Robert Plant used to throw that in when he did one of his tunes back then. Joe's a shredder, you know? And I think when Alcatraz were looking for a guitar player, they wanted a shredder and Joe shreds with the best of them. So there'll be plenty of shredding in there for people who enjoy shredding. And Joe and I have written three or four songs together that are very strong and very positive. And Jimmy and I have written some other ideas. And the collaboration between us all has been very good. It's difficult to describe music really. You just, you know, it's going to be heavy rock music. And that's what it's going to be. And it's going to be my take on what Jimmy and Joe have given me. Plus a couple of things that I've given them with their take on it as well. So that's kind of how it's going to sit. There's no point in trying to replicate what has gone before because, you know, I'm not Graham. And the interesting thing was that, you know, when I had to sing Graham's songs in rainbow, I just, I can still see Richie in the band all laughing. I may not be able to do it. And isn't that strange? It's strange, isn't it? Well, he's got such a unique voice. And you either sing it like that or you have to find a way to make it your own. And I thought that was what was always brilliant about Joel and Turner was that he always managed to take anybody's songs and make them his own. He put his own, he didn't, he was clever enough to be able to work around about what's going on. So that's what I have to do with these more difficult Bonnet vocal parts, which I'm looking forward to another challenge for. It is. I remember Michael Shanker told me everybody from Rainbow's pool of talent just kind of moved over to his, his camp. It's like everybody kind of shifted over. It's strange. And when you think about it, it's true. It's like it was a training camp in Rainbow and everybody just kind of moved to Shanker. But, you know, people used to accusing me of that, you know, of taking, you know, Richie's castoffs as it were. And that's not really the case. Cause I mean, Tony, Tony Iommi's work with Ian Gillin. Tony Iommi's work with Glenn Hughes. Tony Iommi's work with Ronnie James Dale. You know, so, you know, if you want to cast the net a bit wider, there's a lot more people that have worked with Richie that have gone on to work with other musicians. I mean, there are two former Rainbow guys in Billy Joel's band right now, Chuck Burge and David Rosemann. You know, and they've been in the band for 20 years. Yeah, yeah, true that. Jackie, and we're going to get to Dougie on the same question. Kelly Johnson, you know, she's a huge, you know, iconic, right? Yeah. A masterful guitarist and sort of the face in the way of girl school in the early days. How is your transition sort of, I hate the word replace, but sort of take that role. I mean, how have the fans treated you over the years? You know, how do fans, you know, do they accept you? Do they, are they okay with you? Or do they think that you're doing a great job? Sort of. Well, when I first joined in 99, I think they all thought I was Kelly. They just saw this blonde woman on stage and just assumed that's Kelly. So I don't think anybody knew any difference until I opened my mouth. But I think I got away with that for years. Of course, when I first joined the band, I wasn't a lead guitarist. She actually wanted to leave the band long before that. And she sort of said to me, I'll teach you how to play lead guitar. If you join, then I thought, oh, this would be a laugh. Then here I am, 22 years later. But yeah, so she sort of taught me her solos anyway. So it's not exactly, I'm not exactly Shredder, more Chuck Berry than Ingrid Malenstein, but you know, it's just fun and I enjoy it now. But yeah, I think the fans have been brilliant, yeah. To the fans with it. Her style, anyway, kind of, we like the same music. When we first met, she came to my house and she went through my collection. And it weren't all, you know, typical heavy metal. There's a lot of rock in there, of course. But she came across things like Bill Nelson and you know, things like that. Big Bobs and Lopes. And she's like, wow, you like same stuff as me. So we got on really well. So when we were playing guitar, it was very natural for me to copy what she played. And it was very similar in style. So yeah, it was quite an easy transaction really. I think when someone passes, they accept the replacement a lot easier than if somebody who's just sort of, they quit or they're fired, even though she did leave before then, right? Yeah, yeah. But I'm just saying that it's not like she could come back now. That's what I'm getting at. So the fans have had, you've had a great transition over the years. Fantastic, yeah. Yeah, it's been brilliant. They're really welcoming, yeah. Not I didn't know what you were talking about. So kind of the same question for Doogie, okay? What do you say to fans? This is the elephant in the room question, by the way, Doogie. What do you say to fans who are saying, Graham Bonnet is the voice of Alcatraz. You know, that is the person who, you know, he is Alcatraz, that is the voice. So what do you say to fans that say that? I would say that I don't disagree with them at all. But if you want to hear Alcatraz, then it's going to be without Graham because, and Graham, I got a phone call when Graham was on tour the last time Alcatraz were in the UK. And Graham was in it. The band will come into Edinburgh to play in Bannerons as Jackie had mentioned. And I got a phone call, would I go for a walk with Graham? And I went down and I met Graham and we walked through Edinburgh and we went and had a coffee and a blether. And he didn't want to do this anymore. He told me he did not enjoy this music anymore. He wanted to go back to the Graham Bonnet band. And that's what he's chosen to do. Now, what do you do? Do you abandon the work that's gone before never to be done again? Or do you find someone who's willing to step in and step up to the plate and do it? And try something new, you know? When Ozzie left Sabbath or was kicked out of Sabbath, they got Ronnie Dio and when Ronnie Dio left Rainbow, they got Graham Bonnet and when Deanna left, they got Bruce in. Now I'm not comparing myself to any of these guys. But if the band wants to continue, they have to have someone. And if it's not me, it would be someone else. So why not be me? Yeah, well, you definitely got your vet in, you know? Like, I mean, you've got the experience under your belt. If anybody was to sort of replace Graham, or I wouldn't even use the word replace, but move forward with the band, it would be you. You know what? And this is not to like knock Graham at all. I love Graham. I love his voice. And I think he's great in the Graham Bonnet band, you know, and everything he's done. I think he's a great singer. I'm not trying to knock him. I'm just asking the question because there's a lot of fans out there. Graham and I have been friends for 20 years. We've toured Japan together five times together. We've done various things. I know he wishes me the best because he knows that that legacy that he made with Alcatraz is safe in my hands. And he knows that I will treat it with respect. And he knows that I will treat it with dignity and I will do the best that I can. And you can't ask any more than that. You know, I will learn these songs. I will write the best songs that I can and carry this forward. And the fans hopefully will like it. The fans who would rather have Graham there can go and see him in the Graham Bonnet band. If they want to hear these songs, you know, they can go and see the Graham Bonnet band and hear his tunes. You know, but as far as Alcatraz goes, for this album and this tour, I am the lead singer in this band and I will do my damnedest to make it worthy of the name and worthy of the legacy that Jimmy and Gary and all the guitar players that played in the band and Graham brought to the table. That's good. That's great. And just to tell everybody that for those who don't know, two of the original members, Gary Shea and Jimmy Waldo, are in the band, right, with you. So they're the ones who've always sort of, the music of the band, sort of the foundation of the band, right? Yes. So in... And Mark's an astonishing drummer and he's right in the pocket with Gary as well. And of course, Joe Stump's just, you know, he's one of these phenomenal guitar players. That he does the shredding and that's what he enjoys. But man, I've heard them play some of the solos in this album that he's put down are just superb. Superb. And it makes me happy. And if I'm happy, that's good. And I hope that... If I'm happy, then I do my best and then I hope the fans are happy as well. And I hope they like it. And if they don't like it, then I hope they're still happy. Okay. Great. That sounds cool. And Jackie, I know you probably get asked this question probably in every interview, but I'm going to ask it anyways. The evolution of women in metal. Man, I'm going to tell you, like going back as a kid, I remember seeing girl's school. I think it was all guys who used to go to the girl's school show, right? It was very few women. And have you... And you've been in the band now 20 years. So you've been in the band. 22. 22. And I'm even 22 years ago. Still the new girl. Still the new girl. The new gal. Have you seen the evolution in the last 22 years of more women at shows and being inspired and, you know, they're looking at you as inspiration to pick up the guitar and to do something. Definitely. I mean, there's definitely a lot more women in the audience. Definitely. We did one, funnily enough in, I think it was Sweden two, three years ago. It was just for women. It was an all women event. So guys weren't allowed in? No. It was the weirdest event ever. The guys weren't allowed in. After the songs, you know, the music... You're like, oh, it's just, it's very straight. Statement. I think it's called statement. I think that's right. But it was really unusual. But yeah, I mean, across Europe, we've noticed a lot of females coming along to the gigs now. And a lot of bands, a lot of young bands are coming up to us and saying, yeah, we took up guitar because we saw you play at Sweden Rocking too. 2002, whatever. And it's really encouraging when you see a young girl who's taken up an instrument and because they've seen another woman playing it and it's inspired them rather than just, oh, I'm playing an instrument, but boys won't let me join the band. Like it was for the girls. I'm singing bagg vocals back in like 40 years ago, right? Yeah, but Kim and Enid, when they first started, they put a band together because the guys won't let them join. You know, they didn't want them in the bands. So things have changed a lot since then because there are a lot more females. Not enough still, but there are a lot more. Yeah, it's interesting because the Gogo's, you know, they're nominated for, you know, the Rockin' Hall of Fame, but I think it's the wrong nomination. Should have been girl school instead. Because the Gogo's, they really didn't work for 40 years, cranking out albums and touring. Yeah, but not ignoring a lot. They just happened to have two big hits back in 82 and that was it, right? Of course, Kathy Valensheim was in girl school. Yes. Before they became girl school. But that was like real brief. That was like, what, two gigs or...? Yeah, she was playing guitar before Kelly, yeah. Before they became girl school, obviously. But yeah, they all come from girl school. D.H.E.J. account, right? There's quite a lot of people come from girl school originally before they were girl school. And, Dougie, you've traveled the whole wide world. How have you seen, in your experience, since you started, you know, you got the suburban guys loving metal at the beginning of, you know, metal and it's evolved into this national, multinational, multi-ethnicity, I mean, how have you seen like the changes of the faces of people who love metal around the world over the years? Well, I think it's been broken down into sub-genres now. It was never that for me. You know, when I started listening to this, it was, you were either a purple fan or a zeppelin fan. Yeah. I think I was never right, slap banging there in the middle of your eye heap. Everybody loved both of them. But there was always the, you know, oh, is Page better than Blackmore or is Blackmore better than Page? And I was never into progressive stuff. I play, you know, my first band, the keyboard player, clearly. He was into bands like Emerson, Link, Palmer and Genesis and stuff. And it was never my bag. I loved the guitars. That's where it came from for me. And it's gone into all these sub-genres now, you know. You know. Black dad's Viking medal. Well, if you, yeah, yeah, my favorite. I mean, I did a couple of these metal cruises and with Shanker, you know, and we were kind of the lightest band on the bill, you know, and there were folk going around dressed as elves and pixies and things. And it was brilliant. But it's an education. And I don't mind, so long as the guitars are there and it's done authentically and beautifully, then it's brilliant. I mean, I listen to the Arch enemy, I listen to, I mean, we've done festivals with them, Hammerfall. You know, these bands are all of a different generation from what I grew up listening to. But it's just magical. And there's some great singers out there as well. And I get drawn to them as well. There's some, if the music's good, I don't mind. And if what you call it, just so long as it's played authentically and realistically and beautifully. Yeah, okay. I'm going to touch on Brexit here and how it affects you guys, of course, being part of the British Empire. I don't know if you want to speak, you don't have to speak to this or not. I'll speak to this first. I find, I get why it happened. I understand, but I could see the restrictions and herding bands moving forward. You don't have to answer the question if you don't like, I'm not gonna, you know, I might turn into a ramp. But I find it's important, the education aspect of this and how is it going to affect girl school moving forward? It's a difficult one. Cause obviously Tracy, our bass player lives in Spain. So straight away, we were kind of screwed this year for doing anything anyway, because we couldn't get her over here without this quarantine rubbish. Then Brexit kicks in. And of course now we're looking at, we were looking at doing the tour, weren't we originally doing it in the Europe? It's supposed to be, I think it was August this year, it was supposed to be doing it. And that was just impossible because there's visas for Spain and Italy and all these places that you, you know, we just cruise through before like, now we've got to pay a visa here, a visa there, the truck situation, apparently you've got to keep hiring trucks and three days and coming back. I don't know, it's just different. Well, was this not just thought out about the bands in mind? I mean, I could see the importance. It's not into anything. Even the things that they thought, they thought out, you know, they sold it on new passports, blue passports, you know, we don't want the European passports, we want to roll blue passports back. The irony is they're made in Poland. Yeah. They sold it about being about fishing, we're going to get our own fishing, our own fishing waters back. The salmon sales to the EU have dropped 97% since January. Again, Dougie, I mean, if you don't want to speak to it, I don't want you to get in trouble or anything. I won't get in any trouble. It's a complete and utter clusterfuck. And it's the same way with this COVID stuff going down. Musicians have just been left high and dry, theater people have been left high and dry, we've all been left high and dry because the government really don't give a shit. All these theaters, all the musicians, actors, dancers, all these people completely wiped out. The venues, the promoters, the bands, every, they're rehearsing all. We're all rugged, man, you know? I mean, the big bands, the big, massive bands, the ACDCs, the Kisses, the Iron Maidens, these guys are all going to be able to do this because they can have a rolling thing going on. They'll be able to do their festivals, and that's great. Every single band in the rock business is going to be fighting for a, and get paid a potato and 20 pens to be only under part of that. Yeah. It's true, man. It's true. You know, it's interesting. We're having basically, this is what happened 20, 25 years ago with Napster, right? It was a shot to all the whole, you know, musicians and entertainment industry. It just blew away like 70% of all bands' income back then, right? And this is like, now, this new shot is just going to annihilate just so many, the industry infrastructure will call it. That's what it's, and the artists too. And already venues are shutting down over here. I don't know, it's like in Canada, but we've had venues shut down. Oh, same thing, same thing. You know, smaller ones, you know? It's just sad. Honestly, you can get a grant from the government. They just can't survive because they're telling them that you can only have so many people in because of the COVID restrictions. So with this and Brexit, it's looking at unlikely that bands are going to be touring from Britain unless they're sponsored or, you know, they put the fees up. If they put the fees up, then they have to put the ticket. Do you have to move? Do you, like, I mean, is it only logical that you'd have to move to, I don't know, let's say France? We used to be allowed to do that before Brexit came in. We can't do that now. Yeah, not now. You lost your European. We could go to 27 countries uninhabited and tour through all those countries. No problem. Now you can't do that. Now we've got to stop at every border, get off the bus, get back on the bus. It's like going into Switzerland, 27. I was going to say that as well, yeah, Switzerland, yeah. We kind of had, I'm not going to get into this, but we had kind of the same discussion here when Quebec wanted to sort of leave Canada. But you see, people get wrapped up in the sort of that sort of magic wand that will make everything, everything better, right? But when you have to really look at who it affects, the jobs it affects, the import, the export, the logistics of moving in and out, the negotiations, people never look at that, you know? And it's, you know, UK is just an example of, you got to look at the fine print, right? You got to look at the fine print. You got to understand the logic of it all. Nobody did. You just wanted to sign a deal and it just sold us down the river basically. Yeah. And you got some songs on the list, I think, there. Well, I hope things get better in terms of Brexit and they kind of find maybe they could find a loophole or you guys could find a loophole. I mean, you know what, Dougie, I watch Fish from Marillian, you know, ex-singer of Marillian and he's really adamant about this topic and how the money just doesn't make sense anymore to tour and he's just going to retire at this point because he just doesn't see a future for him, at least in the music industry. What do you both say to starting off artists and it doesn't have to do with Brexit, just in general, in metal today? So Jackie, what's your position? What would you tell a starting, someone who wants to start a band, 20 years old, want to start with, you know, I'm going to start my all girl band or... Yeah, still go for it. But I think nowadays you can have a backup plan as well. Don't go in it for the money, whatever you do, don't go in for it for the money, otherwise you're going to be very disappointed. I mean, I think it's your passion and people want to do music. You basically are a musician, it's not like a job, is it, sort of isn't a way, but I think if people want to start a band, still start a band, we need music. People love music. Don't stop because of the money. Just don't go into it for the money. Okay, what about you, Doogie? What would you tell, you know, here's this new band starting off, Doogie, give us some advice. How can we make it in this business? Is there such thing as making it anymore? I would think, I would think, keep dreaming. And if your dreams are too small, if your dreams don't scare you, your dreams are too small. This is not an easy ride. It was never an easy ride, you know? I'm here because I made choices and I made this life choices. And I was in the right place at the right time. I did certain things. And actually sometimes I'm quite good at what I do, but there was a lot of people who were my peers who got the girl pregnant, got married, did this, I never did any of those things, man. I just, I slept in sleeping bags on floors to get here. You know, I refried beans on dry toast and shared the house with 12 or 14 people to be where I am here, you know? Now, you know, I sat in marshal cabinets in the back of Sherpa Vans, touring up and down the country to get here, you know? But there was luck involved as well. You know, Richie Blackmore changed my life, but Richie Blackmore wouldn't have known about me had I not placed a cassette into Colin Hart's hands and Colin was good enough to give him it and he was brave enough to take the chance on me. My life could have been completely different. Well, that's just you. Follow the dream. Don't be tied to the one thing. If it's not working, move on, man. Move on. But dream big. I like that, I like that, that's a good answer. Jackie's rock and roll dead. Rock and roll dead? No, no way. No. No, it never will be. As long as there's some sort of social political issue, rock and roll will never die. Yeah, there's more to write about now than there ever was. It's like, you used to think, what can we write about on this album? We've got so much material now, come on. That's right, oh my God, this last, the last year has been like, you know. My friend told me the greatest music and the greatest art will be made in this year because people sitting around and suffering and what about doing, is rock dead? No, I'm still writing about girls and flash cars. Well, I don't know. And walking down Sunset Strip, you know. Yes, let me do something about Brexit and the virus. Can you, oh God, can you imagine how dreary that's going to be? Yeah. Oh, you know, the idea is not, you know, is to get through this and come out smiling at the other end. You don't want to sit and listen to some miserable sod saying, oh, back in 2020, I was a role. I couldn't grow out the house. I mean, you know, rock and roll is supposed to be a bit of enjoyment. I mean, I'm not fucking bono, you know. So I don't have, or sting, I don't have any political agenda here. I want to write rock and roll songs that make people smile or make people dance or whatever. You know, there are brighter boys out there than me that can write their political songs if they want to do that. All right, just so your folks know that there's, you know, people are texting as we're talking and it's difficult to sort of concentrate on you guys and at the text at the same time, but one question that, yeah, you can't see them. So one of the questions that keeps popping up is, does Jackie have any good Lemmy stories? So, I mean, yeah. They've been told so many times. It's every single time. That's why I don't want to go there. It's just because... I mean, obviously, the one that always comes to my mind is when we were doing the album and the boys were on it. So Lemmy was on it. And it was just, hearing Lemmy one night, we just rang him up and said, will you play on the album for us? So I sent him a text asking him if he'd play on the album. And he sent me one back saying, what do you want, harmonica, bass, vocal, or triangle? So I went back, triangle! Just triangle. But obviously he played bass. He played, he sang on it as well. But right at the end of the album, there's one little triangle right on the very end of the album. Bing! And it's like... All right, so a lot of people don't know this, but the album Legacy by Girl School, it has the guys from Motorhead. It has Ronnie James Dio on it. So, I mean, if you haven't heard that album and a lot of people haven't, they don't realize that there were these big guests on this album. Check it out. JJ, French is on it. Neil Murray. There you go, Neil Murray. JJ French is on it, right? From Twosie's Sister. So it's a great album and a lot of cool guests. All right, so now I'm gonna go to, let's see some doogie questions out there. I love your rainbow album, Doogie. That's more of a statement. Thank you. Where's the other guy from the metal voice? That is just because today is just too many people, it's too difficult to sort of coordinate. But next time, Alan will be on. Lemmy really went the entire way. I'm assuming in your statement. I heard Doogie audition for Iron Maiden. Please ask him about that. Okay, now just to give everybody context, I've already asked Doogie about this and he's, but you can give everybody a little bit of that. I mean, what songs did you audition for with Iron Maiden? If you want to just quickly go through it because I know a lot of people haven't heard the story. I was in first and I was in last. And the audition was about 12 or 14 songs from a real live one and a real dead one. And I got called back in for us, but I didn't get the job, Blaise got the job, you know, and Blaise did two brilliant albums with him and Normal Service has been resumed since 1999. Yeah, yeah, yeah. But the cool thing is you did audition, right? And to just even be considered for an audition for Iron Maiden just shows your caliber as a vocalist. That's how I look at it. Now, Jackie, have you ever auditioned for Iron Maiden as the guitarist? No, I just didn't. I just thought I tossed it up. You never know, you never know. Maybe it happened in the back rooms, I don't know. Let's see, it's a big honor they're saying. I'm just gonna go through the question and see if there's anything interesting. Doogie, have you ever, do you have any Lemmy stories? Have you ever met Lemmy or, you know, hung out with him or went on tour with him? No, I didn't. He was in the green room at the Hammersmith Audion on one of the nights I played there with Rainbow. But other than that, no, I never met him at all. I never saw him at all. I did, I went to see them. My friend Ricky Warwick was playing, he had a band called The Almighty and they were supporting Motorhead at the Hammersmith. And I went in and Lemmy was soundchecking his bass. I've never heard them like that and that was just bass. And I just thought that this is gonna be mental. It really is loud. We came on with us a couple of times to do, please don't touch, we only did it twice. I just remember him coming on, I could feel the floor. Oh God, the floor on the back of me was just vibrating the whole time he was playing. My cousin, I remember, told me, my cousin told me I've never heard a louder concert back in the 80s than Motorhead. It was just, your body's shaking, it's so loud. So on that note, well, okay, just gonna plug it again. So to summarize everything here, girl school, working on some new material, hopefully it'll come out sooner than later. Hopefully, I'll be probably next year because obviously by the time we record it and then we've got the tour, so probably next year it'll come out. What's the vibe like in terms of a sound that you're aiming for? It's gonna sound like girl school. Whatever we do, it's just gonna sound like girl school. We don't use any effects and nothing. We just go straight through. It's always gonna sound like us, no matter what. We don't try and find a formula, let's say. Got it. We got one. Doogie, your album's coming out. You said before November, hopefully, right? No, it will be before the tour. I mean, it has to be before the tour. Okay. So I don't have a firm date. The album is gonna be called, it's the digit, it's the letter V for five. V, victory, V for victory or visitor or piece. V for victory, victorious. Is it gonna be five? It's gonna be five. Vitality, yeah, I think it's the fifth album. You know, I haven't got all the album. Did you guys ever watch the miniseries V? Yeah. Do you remember that? Yeah, it's brilliant. Yeah, pull off the face of the lizard. Yeah, it's like, brilliant. You never saw it, Doogie? With, yeah. With Heather Menzitz, I remember Heather Menzitz. They remade it, they remade it not that long ago. They remade it, they remade it. And they were like eating the rat. Yeah. And back then it was like, oh, they're eating the rat. Wow. Like what did you expect these aliens to eat? All right, that's pretty much it. Doogie, thank you so much Jackie, thank you so much. So again, the tour dates, the package tour, and there's some festival dates too. Maybe you want to run through them. Yeah, go ahead. Can I just say that the very first gig I'm doing with Alcatraz is on the 11th of November, and we're headlining, we're headlining one of the nights at Hard Rock Hell. Okay, that's nice. So talk about being thrown into the fire. You know, I mean, somebody's gonna pay a heavy price for this. The album's not even released yet. Is it Giles' fault? It'll be somebody's fault. But that's the first show, it was a headline in show at Hard Rock Hell on the 11th of November. And so it's gonna take a week while to rehearse up these tunes. I better get started. So November 11th, I see November 18th is that's when the package starts, right? Yeah. Yeah. And I can't read up, but it's starting off, I believe in the UK and then it's flipping to Ireland, right? Yeah. And there are some, there's one date on the 26th where Girl School plays one show and then Alcatraz plays a festival. Am I doing well? Am I doing good here? We do Winter Storm, which is in Tune on the West Coast of Scotland, which is a great little indoor festival in the Town Hall in Tune. And we're playing with Vandenberg and Hardline and some of these new up and coming rock and roll bands that you've been talking about, UK rock and roll bands are just great rock and roll bands, metal bands, rock bands. It's a great festival, that Winter Storm. It's like record, isn't it? Yeah, it's really good. Is Girl School in the Guinness World of Records as the longest? We've heard we have. Functional. I've never seen it, never seen it, but we should be because it's 43 years this year without splitting up. And when I looked at the timeline between the Runaways and we're talking about all girl bands here, right? We're talking about the Runaways, the Go-Go's and Girl School. And it was pretty much, the band started off in the same sort of era, right? Middle, yeah. Well, we must have been before Go-Go's because of Cathy Ballantyne left to go. That's right. So maybe at the same time, roughly, I don't know. But they split up and then got back together how many times now, so. Yeah, it's been, yeah. I feel school have never split up. In the 43 years, there's been 10 different members and Kim and Denise have been in it all the time. So they're the two. Do you ever see a girl school when you're a young lad? No, no, I never. You never saw them live? You're gonna be sick of this soon. I know. I've been saving them all up for these four months. One of my own being shot. No, I mean, I was... They must have been right in your area. No, not really. I used to go to the Glasgow Apollo or the Edinburgh Playhouse and I would go and see Sammy Hagar. He didn't play with them. I would go and see White Snake, Ozzy, stuff like that. And it was always Magnum or Marseille who were the support fans. They were always the guys that were the support fans then. And when I went to London, I went to the marquee if I had any money. But like I say, I was living in refried beans and dried toasts. We didn't really get to go anywhere. Interesting though, in Canada, girls to school really made their mark early there and I think they went gold off of it in Iran. Hitting, huh? Yeah, it really broke the ban. And more so in Canada than in the US. And so I guess there's this real history and legacy of girl school in Canada. That's kind of why we're talking today, right? Because we kind of grew up with it, right? Even though they didn't play it on mainstream radio, maybe late at night on the big radio stations, right? And that's it. So I saw Doogie when he came here. Now, how's the longest it been, Doogie? It's been what, three years? It was about three years ago in the snow. Well, I thought it was quite strong. It came in the day after the lift. But yeah, it was then. But my wife's a girl school fan and she's got the first four albums in vinyl somewhere through there. All the red ones and everything. She's been educating me. Now I'm good. Actually, I got a last question for Jackie here. Does it, do you feel like, man, I really, I wish I was part of it at the beginning, you know, like, you've been part of it for 22 years, that's a lot of time, right? But do you always, you know, you're in these interviews with the other girls and you're going and they're saying, you know, you wish you were there, right? Like, you wish you started off with them. Yeah, it would have been nice. Obviously, I was still at school when they were doing it. So I'm just slightly younger, not that much younger, but a little bit. So I was just, I was in the punk rock back then in the 70s and early 80s. So yeah, different era. So it's always the right time and everything comes up at the right time for the right reasons, doesn't it? I wouldn't have been ready back then, I don't think. But I definitely wouldn't have been ready. But you know what I mean? Like you're hearing the ladies talk about, you know, the early years and you're saying, yeah, yeah, it just sounds like fun yet. Yeah, yeah, sounds like fun days. You got old days and you're like, you know, like the new girl and after 22 years, right? All right. All right. Great interview. Thank you so much. And everybody, you know, buy some tickets for the tour and look forward to the albums and we'll see you all when you guys come through Montreal, Canada. Yeah, hopefully so. Thank you very much. Cheers. Any last words? Get vaccinated so we can all get vaccinated. Get as old as you can. Maybe at your t-shirt booths, you should have like a vaccination like maybe like, you know, an Acatraz vaccine and a girl's school vaccine. Maybe people would be more inclined. The new merch line. The new merch line vaccination. I don't know. All right, guys. Thanks. You too, Louie. See you soon.