 politics in Hawaii with Dennis Isaki on Think Tech Hawaii. Today we'll be speaking with Richard Ha from the Big Island of Hawaii. Richard Ha is a Keikioka Aina. Well, he's not in politics per se, but at first met him while we were both helping Governor Neil Abercrombie. He is a native Hawaiian, a Vietnam veteran, officer. Thank you, Richard, for your service. A farmer and is involved with alternative energy and among other things. Take me, grew up on a farm. Richard, thank you for joining us. You've been on many shows, but please tell us a little bit about yourself, your philosophy, but not enough philosophy and studying with agriculture. Richard. Oh, yeah, thank you. You know, I was largely influenced by, I should say, my family is Kamahili from Laura Puna, and we had family land on the ocean and they were self-sufficient, between the ocean and what they grew. So I was heavily influenced by how they, their philosophy and how they treated the land and each other. So that's the main thing, but also when I was about 10 years old, my father told me a lot of stories and that particular time in life, I was real receptive to listening to these kinds of stories. And his philosophy basically was not no can, can. So we'd be sitting at our dinner table, which is basically a picnic table here with six kids. And he would tell stories that's impossible to do and he found the table that the issues were flying in the air and he would say, not no can, can. And then he would say, there's a thousand reasons, why no can? I want to look for the one reason why can. And then he would say, find two solutions for every problem and one more just in case. You know, so that kind of philosophy. And I was at the age where I was, you know, for three, 10 years old, I absorb all these things. And I didn't know how important it was to who I became until I, you know, I got to be about 40. And then now I'm 77, I became my parents. But it was really good grounding. And that's why I'm so concerned about young kids, elementary school kids, because they're at the point where they're very receptive to listen to interesting things, new things, imagination and stuff like that. Because as soon as you get to high school already, you're more smart than your parents. Yeah, yeah, yeah, but you started the farming, you had big farms, I grew up on a farm also, we had papayas, tomatoes, potatoes, bananas. When I went to the experiment station with that to make it get some cakey. So they're gonna give me six, or they had one pile over there, but they give me six. If they caught them off to the planet, he expanded to over 10 acres. And I wanted to get out of farming. So I went into surveying, but you had big crops, but then you got out of it. What did you get out of farming? Well, I've been out of farming, maybe three, four years, something like that. Well, actually it's more like seven or eight years, because what happened was the cost was going up so high that we couldn't compete. Because what we needed to do was we needed to replace the infrastructure we had. And then we'd have to go back and invest and it didn't make any sense the numbers wouldn't work out. Because the pluses always gotta exceed the minuses or you're not sustainable. So it didn't work out. But it was at the time when the economy was good and our workers could find other jobs. So when I looked at everything I told myself, we better leave now where they have an option. And so that's what we decided to do. But right about that time, I was approached by these folks that wanted to do a medical cannabis operation. And they asked me if, you know, I'd be interested in participating. And I said that I would under three conditions. You know, one was that the first one was my workers would have the first shot at the jobs. The second one was the neighborhood. The people would be as secure or more secure than before. And then the third one was, I would have to have a real job, not just be a cartoon caricature on a stick. So they said, okay. And so I went back to my workers and I said, you know what? These folks still came to me with a proposition. And I, you know, so I'm asking you folks, how many of you folks would be interested in a job working for a marijuana company? Everybody raised their hands. You know, it was kind of, they were very receptive to that. So, you know, and then I started working with them. And the reason they asked me to join was because I have background in indoor agriculture, controlled environment agriculture. So I understood what it, how to do that. And so I stayed there for three years. I committed for four years. But by the third year, I could see that they were well on the way and they were pretty well positioned. So I resigned, retired basically. So I could do the things I like to do now, which what I'm doing now. Yeah, I saw that you resigned from low Ola, you know. So, yeah, that, what is that, leaf of life or some what it means. Yeah, but yeah, then they changed their name to big island grown dispensaries, you know, 55, but other than to me, it kind of lose the wind definition. Yeah. So, switching, switching gears up on monarchy. You know, it has to do with balance of science, taking care of the land and spirit of land and the people. The politicians didn't know what to do with TMT, right? Yeah, it's a tough situation all the way around. But it's, I think we need to take a step back and try to see what will life look like for future generations. And then, you know, there's an opportunity to rebrand Hawaii tourism from Sun and Surf to science and quality. Because if we're talking about the 30 meter telescope, or if we're talking, if not even the 30 meter telescope, the fact that there is an astronaut there at the best location in the world, that's a place that we can see. The thing about astronomy is the resource is the stars and what you can see deep into space. And you don't actually affect the land or the roads or the infrastructure on the ground. That resource is basically free. So if we can ask ourselves, why don't we want our kids to be one generation from now, let alone, I mean, seven generations from now, let alone just one. When you look at it that way, it takes a different perspective compared to just today and fighting with each other about whatever it is that's the problem. If we look down the road, one generation, a simple way of looking at it is this way. This is a, what happens 25 years from now? Kid born today, 25 years from now is one generation. That's 2046. That's one year after we're supposed to be 100% renewable. Now that's the same life of a solar plant or a wind farm, some stuff like that. So at the end, when the one generation from now that needs to be replaced, will the cost of the infrastructure be cheaper or not? It's probably going to be more expensive because there's all these metals and compounds and stuff that you got to be going on for your country and bring it all the way here. So it's not going to be cheaper. And that's why we were talking about geothermal because geothermal, we're over the hotspot and we're going to be over the hotspot for a million to two million years. And the heat and the steam is free. It just comes out of the ground. If you have a pipe, it just comes out of the ground, spins a turbine making electricity. So whereas now we're mostly trying to make electricity out of natural gas, and we're trying to avoid the stuff that puts carbon in the air. And geothermal doesn't give off any carbon and it doesn't give off any noxious. So, and we don't have to go chase after it. It just comes out of the ground. So it's sitting here, we have it. We just all need to get together and talk about what we want for future generations. And that's kind of what that's one aspect of what we're about. Yeah, I remember I think it was in the 80s. I don't know if you were there. They started to talk about the geothermal energy. A lot of guys were against it. That time they say, oh, and I associate that with the sulfur smell. And there was a big fight that I guess you come a long way, you had to. There was a plant. I don't know if it was the one you're involved with, but the volcano lava flow damaged it, wasn't it? Yeah. Recently, is that back up and running? Well, it's coming back online. And we are not advocating for any more development there in the lava zone because of the risks primarily. But there's also cultural issues associated lava, fresh lava, and Kelly, and those types of things. So what we're advocating for is for something like why don't we do some exploration, evaluation of the geothermal resource on the five volcanoes that we have on the big island away from the East Lift. So we're not talking about the East Lift anymore. We're looking at other locations. And it has to be cultural, appropriate, and safe, and all these different things here. But we haven't done anything yet. So we really need to do something. Yeah, but some other volcanoes are really old, old compared to where you're at, right? Yeah, that's true. But we went on a tour to the Philippines with Mayor Billy Connoi. And when we went to look at the geothermal operation, he was sitting on a volcano that last erupted 100,000 years ago. So the first thing that came to my mind is, hey, Charlie, I wonder how long ago all volcanoes erupted. So when I came back, I asked, and the geologist said that the last time monarchy erupted was 4,000 years ago. So he didn't take a genius. I mean, yeah, that's new, I know. It's new in geologic time. Like I guess on Kauai, we had like 5 million years or something, other islands get 3 million years. So that kind of rules us out. But it's good for your island, Hawaii Island. But he talking about spiritual and all that. A while ago, I went to, I stopped the helicopter to purchase. So we flew over the volcano. And as we flew over it, other guys were taking pictures, a camera just exploded and the film came rolling out. So figure, there must be some energy over here. You know, more East than Mon. So it made a believer out of me. So where are you going with this geothermal energy right now? Where is it? Well, we need funding to do exploration because until you actually do the exploration and we're talking about surface exploration, you can send radio waves down and evaluate what is under there. And so we're looking at other places here, like Kohala mountains. We can look all around there. And then once you kind of decide where is an appropriate place to do the exploration and you do it, then you can whenever the electric utility wants to add more capacity, we already have the data. So that when people come to bid, they'll bid with information because the upfront cost is really the most risk here. The drill someplace that has no geothermal expert, I mean potential cost be money, like in the millions, yeah. Yeah, that Kohala side is a little older volcano also, right? It is the oldest volcano. And then the second oldest is Kohala-like. Kohala, here it is. The third is Monarchy. The fourth is Monarchy. What the Monarchy is? Third. Yeah, it's a while back in the 70s that worked on that old back, ocean thermal energy conversion. So they're using that, I know, for some other sea life they're growing there. But how is that being used for energy, if anything? Well, that's what the first we're looking at to see if they could use the different in temperature to generate electricity. But you know, it never turned out economically. So, but they had to become a subsufficient. So they started to do a lot of other things, yeah. Like bottled water. It's a big thing right now. Yeah, really. Big money, yeah. Yeah, and the stuff, you know, like algae, for example. Yeah. They do that. And clams, oyster, stuff like that. Yes. Yeah, you know, I know the energy, they did a project on Kauai, you know, I think it was funded by the military. You were gonna use algae for fuel. Military spent a lot of money here. Yeah, it's, you know, like you say, it's like on tap with that potential over there with the geothermal. So you don't see them drilling anywhere close to where, I mean, you don't have to be in a lot of flow, but in the more current areas, are you looking at farther away? Yeah, you know, around the base of Mauna Kea, they actually were drilling for water for the military. And they started noticing that the heat of the water started rising. And so they were, the amount it was rising, they could tell that if they drilled another 1,000 feet, they would be equivalent to what Pune Geothermal had. So that was something like 6,000 feet or something. So, and they have no idea that there was that much heat underneath that particular place. So that was actually driven and taking core samples and analyzing the different complexities of the water. And then they did surface exploration around the base. So what I was talking about was on the west side of Mauna Kea. So then they came around the side and they did around the east side of Mauna Kea going toward Waimea. And they picked up heat under there. So, but they haven't done enough exploration. They really need to do a lot more. So how, does it think conjunction with Helco? These, this wasn't in a Helco project. This was with the Hawaii Groundwater and Geothermal Resource Center, which is at UH-Mauna and it's a new, relatively new part of the university. And it does groundwater and geothermal assessment and analysis and stuff like that. Yeah, so that is a place where they can actually do the drill. They have equipment and they have the experience. They just don't have enough funding. Yeah. A while ago we met with local leaders including yourself about setting up a co-op like on Kauai, you know, which is a local electric company. But you need a willing seller. You know, it was successful on Kauai. I think you had set up something. Of course, you need the funding to do the drilling though. Yeah, we did, you know, and this is a result of, you remember we asked if you could come and give a talk? Yeah. Yeah, so you guys came from KIUC? Yeah. And right after that, we formed a co-op. Yeah. And the co-op is still in the existence and you're right. You know, you need to have a willing seller here. So, but what we thought was, we need to get prepared ahead of time in case there's a willing seller. You know, we didn't see that there was a willing seller. But the reason that happened was because you remember when next era came, we were looking to buy the utility. So that's when we decided that we better look into this. So you folks came and gave the presentation and right after that, we formed a Hawaii Island Energy Co-op. It's still in existence. Yeah. It still has money. It's just waiting for a willing seller. Yeah, probably, you know. We have the financing committed, you know, but at a certain level, yeah. So, yeah. Yeah, I used to belong to a national association for electric co-ops. As a director in Arlington, there are a lot of electric co-ops. You know, a lot of them are distribution owners. So you don't have to be, you know, everything like what we do at Hawaii. Some of them, you know, our plan, some of it's only distribution. They buy the power and then they distribute that. Still, you know, potential for something and will appear successful in the geothermal. But I don't know, talking about the military, it's kind of risky talking about military doing drilling and water and everything right now. When you think about Red Hill. Oh, yeah, yeah, Red Hill, exactly. It's, well, good luck with that. Well, I want to say one more thing. You know, the lands that we were talking about on the side, the slopes of Mauna Kea. It's Hawaiian Homes Lands. So it's a different deal here, Hawaiian Homes Lands. So it's not the military so much. And we're working with the folks there, the Hawaiian Homes Associations, because we're not the leaders there, but we're talking to them, giving them advice as what they can do, what the issues are involved and possibly what they could do is identify a place where it looks like there's a geothermal and at least the land. You know, like outside people come in, lease the land and then they pay the Hawaiian Homes so much. Well, why couldn't the beneficiaries do that? This is what we're telling them, yeah? So I think there's a big potential there. Yeah, it's an Anahola Hawaiian Homes Lands, the electric co-op made a deal with them, put a large solar farm there, you know, they get paid. And I believe after 25 years, probably about 20 years now, it then goes to the HHL or their association. So I think it's a win-win and all that. Yeah, absolutely. Yeah. So right now you're, you know, you go to all kinds of ventures, do something with a cultural center or? Oh yeah, yeah. What, you know, everything we're talking about, it's very important that we have a cultural component to this, you know, because the 2DB, the telescope, for example, they just had what they call a 10-year, you know, it's a decadal survey and that survey came out with Monokia, the 30-minute telescope, I'm sorry, combined with the Greek Magellan Telescope in Chile, they applied, and the National Science Foundation agreed that this looked like, you know, the number one project that they would be looking at. And but if it is, then it would come with conditions. And one of the main conditions in which we're really happy about it is that they require that there be a real close attention to the indigenous people's point of view. And that's what we've been advocating from day one, you know, that we gotta make sure we take into account the cultural points of view. And myself, you know, I'm going into the third Halau O'Hio, which is a, you know, it's teaching about cultural values that the old ancient Hawaiian point of view. And the ancient Hawaiian point of view makes a lot of sense to me, you know, once I got into it, because I wasn't really knowledgeable about it because I spent 10 years going to the mainland to the speaker conferences, and I've been to five of them. And so I knew from the western point of view, the numbers and all that kind of stuff to do with big oil. But I had no idea that how the Hawaiians were set up. And the way they're set up is that a long time ago, you know, if you look at the Hawaiian economic system in the old days, and keeping in mind that they didn't have metals, they didn't even have bicycles or pretty much. Their economic system was a physical science ecology economic system. Then they had a cultural system that was set up with the guardrails. And how they did it was what they did was considered with all living things, veterans of humans. So in other words, they really were concerned about all everything that they did. It wasn't a resource to be just utilized and thrown away because today we're operating a world of exponential growth on a finite planet. That is clearly not sustainable. The way the Hawaiians had it, it was sustainable. It was sustainable for a thousand years. And so they knew how to do it. And they're teaching, the classes I'm going to is teaching the same values. So the more I look into it, the more I realize that the Hawaiians actually knew what they were doing. And maybe we should learn something from it. So is that tied in with sustainable energy Hawaii? Yeah, absolutely. So we're looking at, we're gonna have a seminar in February 5th. And that seminar is gonna be focused on geothermal. But sustainable energy Hawaii is about geothermal. It's also about monarchy or using monarchy as a resource for future generations and taking into consideration and respect for Hawaiian culture. So those two things are very important. But the cultures and science that are about the clouds, that is set up to combine our culture with astronomy. So, and from there, you know, the four kind of early folks, you know, the, you know, the foundation. They, they, they have a like four was giving a class. And when I looked at her class, she said, you know, you know, you know, you know, you know, you know, and when I looked at her class, she said, you know, I don't grant for you. You don't grant for me. And essentially what it was saying is that I'm okay. I can say what I need to say. You don't have to believe it. You can say what you have to say. I don't have to believe it. And, and the reason that is, is because depending on your age, you receive different information differently. See, so like I don't know if I mentioned earlier on, but at the start, you know, when you're like in, in the fourth grade, you're very receptive. By the time you come to high school, you're more smart than your parents. And you don't want to listen anymore. And then you, as a Kupuna like me, I'm a Kupuna now. I look back and I see the folks, you know, at that age, I laugh because I was like that. So, you know what I mean? So, but that's how they looked at things, which is quite smart. You know, the Kupuna has the experience. Richard, we're running out of time. Thank you, Richard. Thanks for joining us today and sharing your insights and good luck on your future endeavors. You've been watching Politics in Hawaii with Dennis Isaki and Richard Han on Think Tech Hawaii, a 501c3 nonprofit. If you like the show, please tell your friends and help support Think Tech Hawaii and the wonderful staff and volunteers. Mahalo.