 All you do is complain. I'm tired to be honest with you. You sound quite I feel tired my brain was like Swiss cheese I expect to say something totally retarded sometimes and I'm gonna blame you. Oh, you're gonna use that as an excuse Yeah, that's basically rape Yeah, I think so. Well, you know, I think I think I think that's better. Well, um, cool Oh, hold on. We're almost there to press that big blue button when it goes blue Any second now Come on. Oh my god. Oh, no Yeah, uh, how is Wait, uh, why am I a shadow vest? Have you guys met before? I don't know No, I think so Nice to meet you sir movie sucking sir. You both review stuff because you're weird That's that's how I introduce you million plus sub club Um, sorry, I'm just making sure of it. I'm I'm unlisted rather not unlisting now So it is in the public realm. You're listing it. Yeah, that's the way I was looking for I'm a little tired So you're listing have to do all of the talk. We're enlisted. Yeah. Okay. All listed. All of it. Perfect Ultimately, oh, oh beautiful. It's all done. I don't have to do anything else now. I can just go to sleep. You guys take care of the stream Wow, it's like a fap It's like an e fap Why isn't the stream in full bar three? What's wrong with you? Well, yeah, this is my vision now I have Didn't mean to insult you're not a fan of the arts So, yeah, I guess because Everyone is now just saying hello. Hello chat. I guess we'll start with uh, we are here today to discuss Good ol Zach's night of justice league movie Um, and I guess we should do a little like oh, well, we might have meme repository in fringy at any moment They are both late because they're both australian shad is clearly trying to pull their weight here. So thanks for that Oh Is it boring? Um rags is unable to make it I feel like I'm gonna have to say that every half an hour because people gonna be like, wait, where's Maybe I should put it in the description. That's probably a good idea Just put rags can't make this one Just change the title of the video Yeah, just take out why no rags today names. Just just yeah, take out why message at diversity and say, uh, Zach centers justice league without rags rags is dead Uh, so I have to put them down What I'm I figure the best thing to do first is is so everyone here has seen the snider cut has every Like I think it makes more sense to say who hasn't seen Justice league because I I can't remember if me So I I had the only pure experience watching The snider cut. Well, so I don't think I don't think anybody else can even say they watched the same movie True I got an entirely unique experience because like the entire the entire Conversation surrounding this is like a comparison, right? Pretty much like it's so much better than the first like wow, what an improvement But no, I got like I got the pure experience. I saw it in that case Good lord I think I agree with you because I I have no idea what my feelings would be about the snider cut if the bar wasn't set so low by the justice cut And sorry. I think that's a truth. I don't know what I would really feel about it. You're right. Um In that case, right? We should probably just I want to get why this is it is thoughts as a whole on that movie then Untouched by any commentary about justice league. All right go for it. What did you think? Uh, I I thought it was kind of stupid. Oh, no, um it's uh the It's it's weird because like the entire conversation surrounding the movie is You know, there still is the conversation about joss wedon's cut um, but also the conversation about like Artistic integrity and what that means and how much influence a studio can have and what they would do and all of it seems to be a bit self contradictory and I guess I'll get into that in a bit, but I guess just As it is as a film, uh I don't think ben afleck works great as batman in my opinion um I think that the flash is the most annoying character in the entire movie and Like was was one of the most painful experiences was just the flash character Who is not only So irritating and unfunny Clearly trying to be funny, but also just breaks the entire movie because nothing makes any sense with the flash existing and You you have to ask way more questions than you could possibly get answers to just by the sheer existence of the flash and The inconsistency of like what his powers are what he can do Why he wouldn't do certain things at certain moments or why he does and blah blah blah and yeah, it's uh Did you like the fact that uh when he was saving the the chick from the car crash that his like his Shoes got shredded but his clothes were totally intact. Yeah, because like I was having um I was watching it with my roommate and he he's more into the like comic book lore stuff than I am like I have no idea Um, and so he was explaining like oh, yeah, he needs the suit because his clothes would get vaporized I'm like, didn't he save the like he he didn't have his suit on when he saved the girl in the car Yeah, I don't know. It's weird already. It's it's hulk clothes logic. I guess I don't know I don't know So I think what we should do is Go around for everybody and try and like just do a blurb, you know We're not going to start up any discussions yet on any particular topic. We'll just your general thoughts So since uh, we got we got well, I think shad going next makes the most sense because uh, the other four Why does that make sense because the other four here know exactly what the other four think? So we're very interested to hear it what you guys have to say first Yeah, I think my viewing experience was tainted by the justice cut because My opinion I hated that movie so much and seeing any improvement at all I got an inordinate amount of joy from I ended up enjoying it And And even though the characters because I'm a bit I'm a fan of the justice league the actual characters themselves And especially when they're got some of the when you read some of the really good comics and stuff When they're portrayed there to their best level Like one of the really good ones if anyone's interested is there's a remade version where our super girl comes to the world and Batman and Superman basically have to save it from dark side and And they and Wonder Woman teams are that a man is a good comic book and they do the characters so damn well in that one and so Seeing the characters come closer to that even though they weren't true to what you know I feel the height of these characters can achieve but seeing you even betrayed close to that brought me joy I was I was quite happy that Batman wasn't the butt of jokes like he's like Something something's broken something's definitely broken like But he wasn't still perfect, but the fact that he improved I appreciated um I felt that there were better Set ups and payoffs even if they were done imperfectly but because again, they were better. I was happy about that But having said that there was so That was a lot wrong like I there are there are plot holes large enough to drive truck crews at some point where it's just like uh Going on All right, I suppose Who wants to go next? Okay, I'll just go ahead and say it Zach center's justice league is Several leagues worse The than justice league as it has become to be known Spicy it is not close at all when we finish the movie We thought that it might be close, but further examination. I mean I haven't been speaking much with mauler about it. Um, or anyone from the group. I've been speaking with some other folks Uh, marcus the guy from the tazm 2 debate and jeb. They're uh the guys from ecum We've been talking a lot about every single day. That was the sentence. Yeah. Yeah those guys um jeb actually put together a handy little uh Little document comparing the snider cut to jossus league on google drive And um read through it rewatch the snider cut and jossus league and can confirm um for every little improvement that is in Zach sniders justice league because there are elements of zack centers justice league that are better than jossus league um, it introduces I want to say like 20 new issues that all break the story in their own individual ways and um, what technical improvements there are in the visual effects in the lack of stupid terrible comic relief whether it's from the flash with his Stupid bat cave line or falling on wonder woman's boobs. Um, There are way more substantive issues the kinds that we like to focus on here at efap In zack centers justice league than there are in jossus league because zack centers justice league, uh, I think has 70 percent of jossus league in there So all the story issues in jossus league are in zack centers justice league as well Barring okay the really stupid scene with batman and the parademon in the opening of jossus league fair enough That's that's exclusively jossus league stupidity. Okay but Most of the other stuff that's in um in zack centers justice league is also in jossus league And it's really bad Well, and actually I would say that jossus league has improvements in their reshoots like joss when when rewatching this, um When watching zack centers justice league, I was just like wow. This has really recontextualized jossus league I understand what they were trying to do Uh, I'm probably gonna go lost because I think I'm only gonna slightly edge out southpaw in the hot dick department. So I'll let uh Metal or uh cap go go next either of you want to go I'll go next. Uh, I thought it was uh, I thought zack centers justice league was a massive pile of horseshit I thought it was terrible I I really didn't I didn't think anything they added Was better. I think both films are terrible I think zack's niters justice league is worse than wedon's cut They're both terrible though I could be convinced that one might actually be better than the other But they're both terrible and so anyone who thinks it's really great. I have a hard time understanding because It's it's really baffling to me that anyone thinks either of these movies is great so We'll talk more about the specifics But it was trash and I hated it All right, metal Oh, I guess I'll just keep it short. Uh, yeah, it's not a it's not because Dock shit as I put it on my stream. I mean people who watch my stream already know my my take on that I guess uh, but yeah Just like as other people said already a couple of things that improved like cyborg getting like anything I guess it's like by default a little bit better, but introduces many more other issues Uh, and just the the ratio of movie we get to what gets better But on the same time gives us more issues Is so fucking broken This wasn't worth the weight. It was a waste of effort and money I it's I it's I wish I wouldn't have watched it Oh day Oh the bloat the bloat too. That's probably Something worth talking about So when I watched it with you guys, I was like, mm-hmm. It was bad definitely bad, but like You know, it was a bit of my brain. I was like, it's better than uh, Jocely, right? You know, you think Jocely you immediately think uh The gearish colors and the the incredibly fast pacing and the lack of context for so many things I was like, yeah, I'm pretty sure I started thinking about it writing down notes doing a few comparisons I was like, oh So like in truth Jocely is way better and it does more for basically all the characters except for cyborg But he ends up even more broken in Snyder's cut than he was in Jocely That's my odd take Spicy yeah, um, but they're both terrible. That's the that's the thing everybody wants to clarify Oh, and I find the fans of this film and Zack Snyder far more insufferable than the fans of anything that we have criticized in the past I mean, uh, these people have been passionately defending The movement as a lot of people call it while we're more interested in just What was the story like, you know, um I it's it's pretty clear to me that uh, when you compare them, it's kind of cool actually Honestly, it's it's a little bit of fun when you compare the two stories Um, as I think south pole mentioned, uh, there's so much evidence of Joss having cut things out of Snyder's to improve continuity It's some of like You rarely get a chance to see this there's rarely two different directors cuts of a movie that you can see Which one of them was trying to do what at which point and I would say like What was it 28 minutes of slo-mo? Was it was that the uh 10 10 percent of the movie is what I heard. Yeah 24. So yeah 24 minutes is 10 percent of the movie a lot of that was cut. He loves it. Yes. Yes what um What I my my kind of weird gripe is like I'm not even Sure that the weed and cut is actually weed and cut in the first place because wasn't wasn't his cut like two hours and 30 or 240 and then Warner brothers made him trim it down To be like, okay. We want it just too. That's why it's like literally on the two hour mark Well, this is the thing. I think there was like a happy medium somewhere Like I don't know like Joss was mandated to get that movie under two hours So if uh, Zach center was also still in the direct in the director seat back in 2017 He would have had to trim down a lot of the fat too So the only reason why this movie is as long as it is and as Substantive as it is as the fans say is because this was released digitally and they wouldn't have to worry about Uh, like theater showtimes being four hours long and only getting like three showings a day but I mean like also, I don't know the fucking Uh, infinity war an endgame or one story in two films kill bill got split into two movies Like if there are other options to this without like cutting it So much that it starts to feel like I don't know. I haven't seen the cut But like I don't know. I've heard that it feels like kind of disjointed and janky Let's think of it this way, right? So, uh, man of steel comes out. It has mixed reception It's it's turns out to be shit by the way Batman v. Superman comes out Everyone agrees that that's a disaster and then you've got people a few years later saying no No, it's actually masterpiece. It's not then suicide squad comes out everyone agrees to this day that movie is a piece of Shit, it's a disaster Then one woman comes out and because it's not as shitty as the other movies They're like holy shit and actually good dceu movie That's the only thing that has drummed up really any hype for uh for this film And so for Justice League up ahead of time. We're at something like avengers endgame That's 10 years of buildup with like they're delivering consistent hits on like the uh entertainment It's a it's a bad plan. It literally like the universe started with man of steel You introduce Batman in the Batman v. Superman movie No Batman movie before that except for Christopher Nolan shit and then suicide squad and then Wonder Woman is the same year that Justice League is released So it's like it's I don't understand what their plan is like the implication is that things have been building to this moment Right, but it's not It's not what happened So it's it's just a bad plan like they don't know what the fuck they're doing They were all I applaud them for for redoing so much now. They're redoing the suicide squad in justice league again So it's like oh, well, they're they haven't given up yet. You know like fucking dark universe gave up in a heartbeat They'll come back dude. They'll come back Give me time if if they were all at least just reaching the The oh so incredibly low bar of tolerable superhero movie. This could have been an Avengers level hit It's not Um, you know people really are enjoying it more like like the general consensus I've been seeing from you know most reviewers is that everyone is thinking it's better And I have a theory as to why I think a lot of people are perceiving that because I know for myself I enjoyed it more And when I try and break down why I think I enjoyed it more Um for two reasons really and when I also look at audiences I find audiences mostly judge a film by Uh, their emotional response and how much they enjoy it and then if they you know, if it ticks those two boxes They'll generally say yeah, it was a good movie Um, and so in my opinion, I'm thinking that one the tone was far more consistent in the Snyder Cut versus the Justice Cut um and the setups and payoffs were um Clearer to see even if they weren't done, you know And they might not it might not even done being done very well at all But they were clearer and more noticeable and discernible for and you know The audiences to kind of get the emotional payoff at the ones that of course come to my mind most is with um The flash and cyborg, but a couple of like I know Uh Well, actually when the payoff for the flash one is it's it's built on toothpicks That aren't even there because the reason why the flash needs to do what he does is retarded. Um, but I don't think the the casual audience isn't going to be discerning so, you know specifically Um, if the justification for them doing these things Is valid they're just there along for the ride and because that has kind of like that, you know, emotional payoff They are gonna my theories that they respond to it much more In that sense. So that's that's what i'm thinking at the moment I wanted to say something quick about the tone. I'm not actually convinced. It's a whole lot more tonally consistent So one of the things going into this cut that I was pretty sure would be better about this version Is that it wouldn't ping pong back and forth between the sort of Typical zack snider grim dark And just wean's quippy fun. Hey, we're making jokes. We're making light of things But there was a lot of bad comedy in this movie Especially compared to man of steel and batman v superman which have almost no jokes in the entire movie So this is something I find really interesting right because all this conversation about studio control We don't know that when snack fucking all when zack made the first uh, sort of cut or the the script whatever He may have been told you need to lighten this one up He was like a lightened zack film looks like what we just saw in this night of cut. I think and then when he Was taken over by joss. He was probably told when he came in make it even lighter even more comedy Because this isn't the line of so I don't even know but what we have is zack saying no, this is my vision This is what I wanted. There's no like, uh, there's some jokes in there that I didn't want But I had to put them in there because he was He apparently the last scene is like changed too. He almost like quit the Snyder cut over it He didn't even what he was gonna do a fucking green lantern or something. Yeah, and he had to So it's not even like it's literally not even his final vision. Well from what he said, that's the only thing Apparently, but you're right. But if we're gonna be specific, it's not even The point anyway One thing two things whatever, you know, I yeah, I have to disagree with you capital oh I think that the comedy in zack standards justice league is great that moment when the woman The the Icelandic woman is singing and she starts sniffing aquaman's sweater was hilarious. It was incredible on that note Adam did you think when you she started singing near the beginning of the film that there was context you were missing You're gonna have to remind me the specifics to that. There's a was in the prologue, right? Yeah, yeah when aquaman starts swimming away like the people they just start like doing a doing a song thing and then she Sniffs a sweater. Yeah, I I wasn't I I I didn't question it Interesting Yeah, I just I don't even because none of us knew what the fuck was happening. We were all just like why why and it's like What it was like genuinely now what is because I watched aquaman Well, that's the thing this is before that so but I would imagine you might have thought that would be helpful So Correct me if I'm wrong, but in aquaman like there's many Conversations of the characters talking underwater without having to go into the air bubble, right? Yeah, yeah, so Introduces the school making dolphin noises Well, because it's like I think it's it's just so weird what DC is doing Because there's so clearly it's so such little communication between Films and directors so like James one was like, oh, yeah, we'll just have him talking underwater and Zack Snyder is like, I don't know how to do that Just on that note or maybe just we didn't I don't know which one So it was responsible But it was funny how in the middle of the fight she brought in an air bubble and was like Just to say like a one-liner and then Also, I just want to add that Zack Snyder is an executive producer of aquaman. So well, oh, yeah So what I want to say was like, um, according to James one his movie aquaman is a sequel to the Snyder cut not to Jostus league because The including Patty Jenkins They are unhappy with what Jost did to Snyder's movie, right? That's that's a common sentiment What Jost did they repeat there's a top comment on this like little video that goes over all the elements of the film That I I was watching when I was trying to come up with some more like just discussion points and stuff And the top comment is like to like this is almost a crime like what Jost did like it should be punishable This is fucked up. I think Warner Brothers did it. I don't know if Joss Whedon's responsible Well, this is so this is the thing that's also interesting about the whole subject is uh, we treated as though it's Zack versus Jost, but in reality, it's a lot more complicated on both sides. I would imagine Yeah Because you know that if he had full control from the big like like he wasn't off the project at all And he had released it in 2017. It wouldn't look to anything like what we've got today Um, oh, yeah, and yeah, there's Warner Brothers wouldn't have let it be four hours or four by three aspect ratio Like those two things you can kiss goodbye like even if just just not like Warner Brothers would have Well as a Jostan so Jostus league is terrible. Okay I'm gonna I know I'm gonna have to say the whole bunch of times in this stream and that's fine It's terrible. So Can I just jump on in on the point that you guys are making just now is that Zack is also working off from the benefit of hindsight and everyone is assuming that every change in the Snyder cut was Something that he changed from Jost's way and is like no no He could change things that he first would have thought would have been great in the film But now I mean with hindsight when people reacted to it. He has a You're right and there are references to this There are things that zack was going to put in the movie but with the reaction to Jost's cut having them He was like, I'm not gonna put them in there now people don't like them. Yeah, exactly You can cast the blame exactly like Joss Joss Whedon got me, too. Everybody can blame him for everything If you're a zack Snyder or anybody still working with Warner Brothers You're not even gonna pretend like Warner Brothers is Slightly responsible for the Joss Whedon cut You're just gonna toss all the blame on to the me tooed guy Right and it's fine because nobody cares about him anymore. No It's uh persona non grata at this point, uh Which you know, it feels bad because like if you were given an incomplete Uh zack Snyder base plate to convert into a movie that's a completely different tone with a completely different storyline I say completely different storyline a meaningfully different series of events, um That's a nightmare like to try and do that and on the point of the Aquaman stuff, right? Um in zack's version they do the the noises and points That's not in Aquaman. I don't know why that's happening, but Joss cut them out and he doesn't uh He doesn't really doesn't have them in the in the cut so it makes more sense with Aquaman then you've got Um, uh, isn't it names mirror, right? The mirror mirror Yeah, her parents died according to the Snyder cut. They are Her dad is incredibly important to Aquaman storyline. So that doesn't make any sense But then if you watch Joss's cut Uh, the camera pans away from her and instead of saying my parents died in the war She says my parents fought in the war like, oh Oh Like even though the film came out ADR that long ago It was I'm assuming you could have been Joss could have been whatever But they were trying to account for continuity where they weren't in Snyder cut And a lot of people said well, yeah, this director's vision And it's like well, what does that mean when you've got a shared world though? Like I don't understand Yeah, um, can I also add on that point? I've heard a rumor that Sack didn't even watch the justice league cut which I'm not sure I believe And even if he didn't I think a lot of people around him did and would give him information And even on top of that, you know Oh, yeah Yeah, yeah, there would be other points of hindsight that he would be reacting to like the other movies Like the point you just brought up more. I mean, for instance, I noticed that um The talk between Bruce Wayne and Wonder Woman about her having you know disappeared for so long and not done anything Is conspicuously missing from the Snyder cut. So now it fits in better with that horrible dumpster fire 1984 Um, is that the right one? Wonder Woman 1984? No, yeah, that's the right one. Yeah, it's the Orwellian movie. Yeah. Oh gosh Um, but yeah, so uh that scene was is not in the Snyder cut anymore And that's not necessarily your action to uh, the justice cut that was a reaction to the Wonder Woman movie That was made previously in my in my thoughts Well, no, because I think you're right But the problem was that that that means it's out of continuity now with bbs because at the end of bbs She's like it's been a hundred years since I've done anything. It's like Yeah, which I mean Zach Snyder directed that one too, right? Yeah, so Zach saw that patty ignored him and then he was like, I guess I'll just follow along Because this is the last chance I have to make anything the superhero fucking thing I'd rather side with her than not with her if you know what I mean Um, but the thing is that's not like joss is like people are like I've seen the claim that like uh, joss is out of continuity with 84. It's like no 84 is out of continuity with joss like that's not fair He didn't know she was gonna make that movie Nobody knew she was gonna make that movie Um, awesome. Hello meme repository. Hello repository. Welcome. Hello. Our technology is wonderful Uh, yes, since we've all done it and you've just arrived. Why don't you give your blood? What is your take on not only how good the Snyder cut is But also how good it is in reference to joss to sleek say whatever you want mother fucking sesame seed Oh this fucking movie this Fucking piece of shit this cunting piece of horse radishing fuck This is one of this is an absolute turd of a film An absolute abomination Joss Whedon you've done some bad stuff for buddy. You tried You had nothing to work with and you still tried to fucking salvage this mess of a piece of I have in all my years never had a more Unpleasant time watching a film that I have sitting through this abomination a fucking celluloid fucking So I didn't like it. So you like that. Yeah It's kind of hard to tell Super price um Well in that case it's already become clear for chat that uh, the majority of the cast Which is a minority of the world think joss's cut is superior I know crazy times how Are you all right I'm excited to see joss's cut well Because I know I it's like a shorter version anyway. So it's like dude. I'll watch that with you Yeah, I've already seen the yeah Um, like because yeah, it's a it's a bad movie for sure. It's awful But it's kind of amusing. I I uh, what we finished it for our sort of dc arc I already said like it was my favorite out of all of them for like entertainment value It came just above 84 which kind of that's bizarre right the listings like my favorites of that and 84 When she wrapped her lasso around the rpg. I was in love. I I had found the movie for me Snyder cut is a lot more um dour and slow And again to make it clear again They're both shit Let's remind everybody periodically. It's fine. Yeah So to answer meme repository's question about how could anyone think it's better? I think it's because general audiences value Certain aspects much much higher than other things and when there's a to them when they see a minor improvement um That can have an inordinate inordinate effect on their ability to judge it and enjoy it much higher Then the other aspects that were done worse that they don't care about as much And to I think the largest takeaway is that people are perceiving that the characters are done much better And the tone is better the as I mentioned before Well, what's like the biggest Is it is it like so like your your biggest issues are like, I'm gonna be ranting about that when we get to it because that's um But but that's something that I reckon casual audiences. They will just brush off But in terms of the character like and this is this is true in like, you know in writing, right? If you can and I'm not saying they did this in the in Zach Snyder's thing But just writing generally if you can nail the characters in a story That story can people love it and people will love it really really well Even if a lot of the plot ends up being a mess like a total mess and even the world building fails and stuff Also, I think I said it before in other places. Uh, most people probably didn't even watch the The justice cut before that again Like they probably watched it when it came out and then they watched this one and then they thought This one is better Just to account for the people you'll piss off. I know that angry joe watched the old one right before He said that in his review. Yeah He watched the weeding cut watching back to six hours of justice league Plenty of plenty of people did watch them back to back and concluded with ease that the Snyder cut was better I just you know The conversation will have to go on, you know in terms of talking about the connections and the differences because I You know, like the claims have been have been laid bare. Who knows what happens next Um, I don't even know what what we should talk about first or in general. Well What's your biggest issue? Is it the Like it's the consistency between other films and plot holes Is that or are those two things like the biggest problems with the Snyder cut? Well, uh, I would say just just torn apart by inconsistencies and conveniences like, yeah Yeah, uh, the the stakes are finished by the way in this universe There's there's no stakes anymore at all in Snyder cuts universe, but that's yeah, I'm not gonna get any more movies I think right that's the idea Precisely, so yeah as a film on its own if it had any sequels it would have fucking destroyed them But it doesn't yeah, so it won't yeah Um So yeah, uh, we could start with um One of the biggest I think in the movie but everyone else can sort of you know We're gonna have a chat about it But um, we have unlocked the ability to undo mistakes at any point for our team with the flash with no cost So that's like I my roommate told me that was like also in the comics or something I don't know. He just like from what I understand that needs to be Repercussions Right when anyone does this in any stories if you reverse time It's like there's got to be a repercussion for that though, right because otherwise you just do it forever You'd abuse it. So what are you doing? It's like there isn't one you're like, okay Yeah, he got like really tired doing it though. It's so weird because he goes like before everything I was like Oh, I didn't I said I'd never break that rule against like what rule and then it just goes back in time And I was like, okay, what happened next? Oh movies over. So you have to break the rule, Barry Just this one time Okay, what rule what does it do you explode? Like does your head fly off? Like what happens? Yeah, well, you need to eat some pizzas after because of the calories like what That's what I mean There's just a basic one and a lot of people are already in chat saying it's in the comics like guys I don't care if it's a comic it's not this movie God sick of it. Well, wait meme reports are actually comic sentinel. So Yeah, I don't think there's a single thing as a concept that's not in the comics It's funny Comics for for marvel in dc. It's like i'm never surprised to hear some crazy thing like oh Fucking spider-man His girlfriend cancer by coming in her Yeah, that's in the comics like, okay Suggesting you would watch that movie Well, we're criticizing how this stuff affects the stakes, right? And it affects the stakes in the movie and if it's from the comics it affects the stakes in the comics too Yeah, for sure. Um, maybe it's just been this way for so long that a lot of people haven't questioned anything about it and that's totally fine, but like this is something of a Significant issue and if it were in any other property that we're okay with shitting on like everybody wouldn't be saying it's in the comics even if it was Also flesh reverses time twice in this movie He does with the box with the mother box as well and no one gave a shit there Uh This is the thing sorry usually Oh, sorry What? I'm just wondering what do you think the fans of the snider cut would say in defense of the time travel thing? Because I there's a couple defenses Well, yeah, we'll see I think some people might say that no no he could only reverse time to the amounts of it You know that he can Maintain that speed which is like so that means he could only reverse time by Five minutes ten minutes at most or something like that now I'm not saying excuses it But these are the excuses that I think people would come up with Trying to contextualize what happens in the film and saying oh, there are limitations You're just not being fair when you you look at what actually happened and stuff Well, the two that I know about and these aren't necessarily defenses They are responses one of them is that it's in the comics and then the other one It was uh shared in the group chat we have but um The the idea that like this is his power Okay, the villains have to defeat him By overcoming that kind of limitation and that's what makes the drama interesting or something like that That's just like I I don't understand yeah I have the same issue with dr. Strange by the way um It's he's unbeatable and then uh, what's his name chicilius? He pulls himself out of re being reversed, which is not a thing you can do by the way Also, when did when did the flesh do is it the time travel for the first time? When he has a rule for it, he must have done it some time before that Even though he said I only do like I only do like this small stuff before because at least is that so does x9 cut? I had this all a mush Because he said like oh, I never did like this whole alien beating big boy thing like I only did like small burglary thingies or whatever Like what did he know he said something different? He told the truth about using time travel all the time and then they judged him for it So he used time travel and then went back and then said what you said Oh, fuck Stop it flesh I don't want to be in a position where I'm gonna be running um devil's advocate all the time but I half wonder if I because I I always want criticisms to be done at least fairly or at least account for what The defences that people will say because I think Like a limited version of time travel or time reversal can be a power That could work with limitations and could be employed in a story And so I'm not necessarily I don't necessarily think that that can ruin everything As long as there's right rule proper rules was placed around it And it's done right because I mean a good example of the fact that time travel can still make things difficult It's when you're playing a video game and you're save is essentially a time reversal thing where you lose or you're you die And you have to go back to a previous save That's like a minute or whatever behind and you can play in your play yourself into a position where The last point you saved or the point that you can return time to essentially is really still a really really hard position to resolve And sometimes you put yourself into an impossible an impossible decision position that anything yet you do because things are so bad You can't fix and so that's the kind of thing if if if the flashes make that time reversal is limited by length That it doesn't break everything There are still enough limitations that you could still work with it in a sequel sure But like it's in this movie. That's all we've got to work with and it's the biggest drama The end of the world is just solved because he can do that. It's like, oh, okay. You can do that I guess well technically it's only solved because he has the he's able to act within the space of time That he was able to give himself to prevent it happening So what does that mean? What does that mean? It means say if he needed more time to well Let me just say the whole thing that the uh, the mother box needed a massive burst of electricity to allow cyborg into the Unity is arbitrary garbage They pulled out of their rear end. So the flash can do something and and so I'm not just I think it's garbage All right, and maybe maybe not just so he can do something But so the time travel mechanic doesn't seem like it just came out of nowhere at the very end of the movie They popped it into the the resurrection scene, right? That's that's the setup if you will Yes at the same time And I would argue zack had him circling around and doing fuck all else because he didn't want him Basically dominating the whole fight because that's that's what you have to do with the flash You have to keep him busy because he would just he just win the day on his own Yeah, cyborg. Yeah, there was like a weird moment step and wolf like when Sorry There's gonna be a lot of talking over each other. Don't worry about it. Just uh, Oh, I was saying that flash and cyborg could have easily defeated step step and boy affair determine that for a second step and wolf Without any problems. Oh, yeah, flash doesn't need to fucking run circles Even when he's not running in circles, they like put weird nerfs on his abilities Like there's the part where the rubble's falling and he's he's like, uh, I got this one got this one got this one And then another one is just falling after that point and he yells. No, it's like, well, why didn't you get that way? Like nothing I don't know why you didn't get that last one But all of a sudden he goes no and I think it's cyborg that blows it up and it's like, oh Thank you. It's like what you could you could have done Like you're so much faster. Like this doesn't mean anything The length of time it took him to say no, he could have raced in there and saved him all the time Yeah, like there's he could have he could have nonchalantly walked to it But also for people who bring up my comics, by the way, um I've never seen the flash be able to control time with this level of precision Which is kind of a huge issue Like I've seen him like run so fast that he accidentally goes through time or I've seen him like go Roughly to a point he wanted but one there's usually like a butterfly effect from that So it's not something you want to do because you can stop one catastrophe But then holy fuck suddenly an even bigger one comes as a result of you doing that and actually there's a quote I really like from the flashpoint paradox movie. Um, you break the you break the sound barrier sonic boom You break the time barrier time boom. So in that movie remember Him just going through time caused ripples from in both the past and the future To just ripple forward. So that was a huge consequence of him trying to do this thing by going through time um, so Time travel should have these huge throbbing consequences that make it really fucking impractical to use in any kind of Uh, meaningful way. I am. Oh, yeah, totally agree and there should be severe consequences Like just make sure you're not on island though chat. Uh, there is a what you were talking about You're you're like sort of reference to games and ideas stuff. There is and I forget the name of it I'm sorry. It might be called next. I'm not sure someone chat will know. I think it's next There is a movie Where he's got a like a checkpoint loader is his power basically but it only goes as far as five minutes I think or is it 20 seconds or something it's some limit and um He You know the the drama in the movie is can he ever be caught in a position where we're winding that much time won't save him And it can happen and I haven't seen the movie in fucking ages probably a bit flimpy But uh, you know, yeah, I agree with you that it can be used well, but I don't think it was used well at all in this movie Yeah If he goes that fast then his clothes shred too and not just his shoes. So we wouldn't want that He like he gets like a big nosebleed He goes back in time too many times and that's embarrassing I think we talked about at some point. Oh, I think it was with me I was talking about but uh, just the idea that because this is he said it's referenced There's a comic that has it but like one of the repercussions potentially is to age him up fast the longer he uses it so That's an easy big payoff, but of course you couldn't do that in the first movie he appears in That's just gonna be like oh that didn't stop them from wasting dark night returns and death of superman in like the second movie So true They could have easily I said that before I don't know if wasn't efeb or anywhere else I forget but they could have easily just timed it That they get all their payoff movies After marvel finished their ones So they could all to do all the character work while marvel is doing all their big payoffs Everyone can get nice and comfy with those characters and when marvel is done you get your big three four movies After there's nothing else to watch in the superhero thing quote unquote nothing to watch But you can just do it then and there was like oh, there's another one. It's like yeah, you could But they were expecting the superhero genre to be a fat They were expecting it to have like no longevity. That's why they had to like cram in justice league So that's an interesting because they're like well, we got to do it now Like it's got no one's going to watch superhero movies after end game. So We got to do this now And that's an interesting topic and I don't know I don't know how much time we should spend on this one But it's just a sentiment I saw in two of the many reviews I watched the film Uh people saying that this is the proof that the superhero Genre is coming to an end and that much like uh noir or westerns is gonna die I don't think superhero genre is ever gonna die. Um, it'll the western isn't dead That's the problem with this analogy. Well like superhero. So the concept of like a hero. I don't know That's a tough one to to kill like this superheroes are just fun fantasy sci-fi on top of just heroic stories. So like I don't see it going anywhere. Honestly. Um, it might not be as popular at certain points I don't see any other genre unseating it right now. Yeah, and let me also just say if it becomes unpopular That's only going to be the result of crap writing and crap moves that come out in the genre that people aren't watching If they consistently make good stuff People get all like I'm always sticking around like well the funny thing is genre I've loved my whole friggin live in comic books and everything The superhero so like the mcu and and the dcu are both big combos of sci-fi and fantasy and then different timelines different multiverse So like there's really no story. They can't tell for the most part Um, westerns are quite limited compared Like this this is not some huge breath compared right like I still admit there's a there's a bazillion stories you can tell about Gee, I don't know more though. What about aliens, huh? You know, I mean, why were aliens versus cowboys? Aliens versus the snider cut Have we done that? Um, yeah, well, that's the thing. Uh, I just um, I just superhero stuff has been around Since you could you could you argue Achilles as a superhero? Could you could you? Well, a lot of the gods from mythology end up becoming superheroes in these Universes like Thor for example and her Achilles is also a hero in the in the marvel universe actually It's funny. Um Like you could actually argue superheroes go back as long as mythology If you're technical about it like demi gods could be considered the first superheroes How about like samson from the bible the guy was like super strong as long as his ear wasn't cut or jesus Yeah, yeah Yeah, I didn't want to spend like too long on that I just I just found an interesting concept that likes the snider cut as evidence that we're like and the the current sort of situation We're in for how yeah, I don't see how yeah, I'm just like, I don't know give it once once the cove is stuff Basically goes away or at least gets damp and uh, this probably is gonna the gears will start turning again Who knows what's gonna happen? Well, they're filming a whole bunch of the next crop of superhero movies right now. So they're not going anywhere I mean, I don't know like One division just came out people a lot of people watch that it was all over my twitter. So did you watch it? It was terrible. No, I didn't we hated it Okay I'm very good You I could fucking I could guarantee you will not like it that last episode nobody fucking liked it Like there was like one or two people out there You won't it's very very evil. Uh, but I'll be right back. I gotta take a phone call. Hold on. Yeah, no worries And so yeah, uh The surrounding content for superheroes right now is a little dry and so the snider cut was like a huge well and Um, I don't know some people have come away saying saying like, um, this is proof that the snider needs to take control again of the dcu and other people are saying it's the This the obvious proof that uh, it's the death of superhero movies that no one no one really cares anymore If he got his Further two films and this like behemoth trilogy, they would each get longer every time, right? There's no way he would cut them down. So the next movie would be five hours and the one after that would be six I mean at lowest flame would get pregnant via bruce wade and bruce wade would kill dark side with the anti god god And then lowest would eventually reveal to to clark kent that oh this child We berth was actually bruce wades. Let's name him bruce kent And then bruce kent would grow up to be the new batman. I'm not joking. These are the lead to the fucking story of boards Conferred to be official. Fuck What would do I found out that some people consider that to be amazing. Some people are incredibly excited about that timeline I will never watch who are you people? Slider I like the fact that the The stutter cut even has the um, the pregnancy test and loathe's apartment to imply sort of like that A little remnant from his uh, original draft Well, then uh So we did the time problem stuff unless there's anything else anyone wants to say on it We can move on to like the next big significant flaw because there's so many to get through No, go ahead. I don't have we gone to the yodeling yet Oh, uh That that comes maybe maybe some of the significant stuff Um, the the movie opens with superman screaming and that awakens the mother boxes and um, I'm kind of unclear as to How this fits in with suicide squad because suicide squad takes place sometime after superman's death, but This movie would have us believe that superman's resurrected like within A couple of weeks. It's unclear, right? They're not definitive about it Yeah We don't we know that they were awakened awakened quote unquote like straight away, but as for summoning Steppenwolf, which by the way, I'm saying all this stuff as if I understand it I don't summoning steppenwolf that happens at some undisclosed time after which could be as long as You know months. I don't know if there's room to say that. I feel like there probably is Oh, we're talking about the span of time between superman The only reference we have is calling for the queen of the amazon's to come check it And then she says any changes today meaning she's checking it every day, I guess or yeah So that's the wiggle room you have with with that Because initially I thought that was a much larger floor than it was but then I double checked and the dialogue does allow For a little bit of wiggle room there. Um, I think It's hard to keep track of that, I agree Yeah, it is it is because My lord this film It's a small thing but in regards to that opening Was anyone else a little confused at the fact that zaxnider doesn't seem to understand how sound works So superman is yelling really loud and it's rippling out across the world and it's going In waves and I don't understand why I mean that goes into the ocean as well. It's magic sound It's super magic sound is a wave magic. No, but I mean be that but Yeah, it's not a I don't know how Think of think of it. The challenge is a filmmaker is like, how are we going to visualize and make it clear that like this is what's happening? I guess Well, so that's where the problem That's where your problem begins the idea. So you're like, how do I visualize this and you're like, so what am I doing? It's not it goes. Okay, so When superman screams his scream is heard basically all over the world and it wakes up three mother boxes and you're like Right, so I'm already very confused Oh good And if we just want to go into the physics of that, I mean people will say I'm nitpicking but I like doing that type of thing the amount of pressure That would have to have been in place at the point of origin to have enough force to send a sound wave globally Would just there'll be a newt going on. So no, like something insanely stronger than a nuke Like a sound like seriously. Yeah, there's a type of pressure wave. I mean That's what has to be a magic sound wave for it to be the same resonance while it actually Increases in size and not lose it's bullcrap, but so it's like if you want to go to the physics Well, here's the thing superman screaming so loudly that it destroys metropolis would be consistent with his hatred of Metropolis and lack of care for everyone's well-being there, but this is the dcu consistency is not it's not its thing. Okay I just like that it goes So Service to the math and apparently the amount of sound he would need to generate might actually create a black hole Oh great I'm a little confused about something in the plot. I'm wondering if either you can help me or Maybe film that it's stupid go right ahead So like there's the three mother boxes. They had a war way back when the the alien People brought the mother boxes to earth to turn it into A fire planet because they like fire right um, and there was It only like the time it takes for the boxes to sink is like not that long Right. It's like most half a day something like that. I don't know half a day. Okay. Okay It doesn't really matter how long it is because I know you're going with this and you're right the carry But yeah, the um, yeah, there was like a whole army there already, which is weird But anyway, I guess they they could have shown up. I don't know why they would have like told them That's what they were doing or how they would have known but my bigger contention is with the um the fact that like Dark side and the other dude Didn't even know that earth was the planet that they tried to do before but it's like but they knew the boxes were there Oh, I can't explain that. Yeah, they forgot please This is uh, yeah, but why were they looking for the boxes there if they didn't know This is called to them. Okay Superman woke him up and the boxes said hey We're here. You can now take the planet because the kryptonian said even though there was thousands of years when he wasn't even here But sure now I come genuinely, right? I'm gonna try and really quickly lay out a world map from the pov of stepham wolff and dark side Okay, so 100,000 planet. No a million planets Okay, and dark side's like you can't come back in my bedroom until you get me 50,000 of those and stepham was like Oh man, okay, and then uh downstairs in the kitchen Um, their their mother makes mother boxes regularly every day. She's just popping them out And uh, sometimes stepham wolf will take them to a planet to terraform it. However, if a planet And the mother box is on a planet call to him, which apparently can happen sometimes You'll simply go there collect them up and then unity and then terraform It's like two different ways of doing it. This by the way is is just what I've gathered from looking at defenses online And so it happens to be that this one's calling him. He's like, yeah, I'll come in I'm gonna have a look and it's like, oh my god. This one happens to be that world. Remember that world dad from ages ago But like the whole the whole point of their being weight to that world was that like, uh, We lost to that time and I'm like really mad about it That was like before they knew that it had the fucking equation Death I don't remember They found that equation Um He was just he was just mad that that was a planet that he lost to right so like well What other reason would there be? For the boxes being there other than what's not just lost to he got like a nearly fatal wound from the god of war himself Oh, so he loses a lot He's just particularly mad about this one. I'm like I'm like chatting wolf in the original kind Yeah, yeah Jocelyn weedenwolf you could call him he uh, he was pulled away from the fight desperately trying to kill more people uh, snider side was Uh, cruel carried away as he bled the fuck out and fainted on his own ship But yes Exactly it does it undermines the menace that dark side Yes, it does He just sees total a bucket kicked and it's supposed to be this tough almost impossibly, you know Yeah, invincible enemy and in the beginning maybe we just see arrows can hurt him apparently I was like, okay Yeah, they like I was actually annoyed how they did dark side in this because dark side when it's done Right can be a really good villain But this uh, he's clearly supposed to be a brute who's really intelligent like that's neither of those at this fucking movie It's terrible I'm gonna grind your bones into dust and that's and that's all he and he's all talk and no But he didn't find the anti-life equation the first time as well because we see the shot when Just like that's what I was gonna say. That's what I wanted interjected So he doesn't only forget where he lost. He also forgot where the anti-life equation is What he's searching for To make a fucking sticky note. It's like oh, let's go to this planet again It's also strange. Yeah, like They didn't lose the coordinates to the planet at any point. Did they like why would they I would stick a satellite in orbit and stare down primitive rock I can't explain. Yeah, they just don't they don't have maps to anywhere. They're just flying randomly. I can explain this I've got a quote. There's a quote from Snyder himself. Okay, because someone was asking about this a lot of people have Apparently some people can't just enjoy a movie. They have to be like So Zach was like that was his quote So Zach was like we have to understand is he lost real bad in that fight like really bad To the point where when he went home to apocalypse, which i'm pretty sure he spelt wrong because it's spelt with like lips lips, right? Like the pocket. Yeah, the pocket libs. Okay. Oh lips He went home to apocalypse and you know because this loss was so cute He like lost a lot of the the position he had like he wasn't as high up So he was a lot lower down and so it took him like ages We're talking all kinds of years to get right back up there and you know every single person except oxide who was in that fight They all died So no, they were they were slain they all of the people in that fight who made it out of this So they all of their knowledge of that planet died with them, you know, they were slain everyone and that That fully explains it. There's no other things needed to be explained now. That's You might think a spacefaring Multiverse traveling system of ships might have some kind of like a logistic system that can kind of keep track of planets But it or the written word they were slain the books were slain the machines were slain. Okay It all makes sense Can I also just highlight that in the weed and cut the boxes were waiting for the darkest time on earth to activate And in the snider cut they they don't activate until superman dies because get this they were afraid of superman so in all the thousands of years that passed between dark side getting nearly killed And uh superman dying. I guess the mother boxes were just afraid That in the future some guy From krypton would come to earth And it would be their protector Yeah, like there's no accounting for why they don't call out earlier than before like like from before superman comes to earth I suppose you could call that the first and foremost improvement joss has over snider Snider says the boxes wake up because superman died and he screamed and they heard it and they were like, aha Your protector is dead. It's time to bring in the backup, which creates major problems at the door Yeah, no problem. Uh, that creates major problems for the history of the world Because it means why the fuck when the boxes have called anybody up till now that makes no sense However in joss's it's not great But joss says the boxes wake up because there's a there's a huge amount of fear around earth right now from humans Humans are experiencing more fear right now than they ever have and it's likely a likely explanation would be That their alien defender is dead and he's the one that saved them twice from horrible monsters that could destroy the world So with him, I think that's a there's a line of logic there Right, if we all had this one dude who would save us whenever some horrible cosmic threat came in and he died on the latest one I think we'll be like fuck if the when the next one comes we're screwed Can I actually offer a possible pushback here given? How callously superman handles the um Uh, the whole metropolis invasion Wouldn't the like the world be kind of fearful of him to So the problem with that is that it's The film's ideas versus the reality of the films So like right um, and I think there would be if we hated superman, right? Let's say me and you were in that universe We saw all the footage from metropolis and we talked in discord every day about how Fucking hate that guy like He's a terrible super superhero And blah blah blah and then we see the footage of doomsday and we see him Like or at least we're told whatever that he killed doomsday and was killed doing it. I'd be like All right, okay, apparently he was kind of Okay Like it's hard to criticize that Um, but at the same time I'd be like even if I hate the guy if he was stopping a Horrible world-ending threats from getting us I would prefer him to not having him I guess Yeah, that's fair Still an asshole. So Yeah, yeah, the the fact that they could forget where the planet is is Unbelievably done. It's just like it's next level stuff and they could have been a fix Like it doesn't take too much creative energy for them to and it like it would have been big So you need to justify that they could only have done it once that all the gods harness their powers And then they got the power from the mother boxes or something or they're able to use them temporarily or something like that to Transport the planet to another part in the galaxy or something like that I will I will hand you that would be better. Yes Yeah, and just hide the planet somewhere because we're dealing with powers of gods and other things So you can justify that level of insanity And then if they are just able to you know with any vein of logic to explain why it was a one-off They could only do it once but now now the planet's hidden where dark side thought it was is there It's not and then he spends the rest of the thousand years looking for the stupid thing That could have worked and it's not too hard to you know, but no he just he just forgot guys I mean they've got literal gods on their side You can't tell me they can't they couldn't like cast like some kind of ritual to just obscure the planet Another better idea that this would have worked in continuity Zeus was there Zeus did the thymus scaring invisibility thing over the Oh nice nice Yeah, just any kind of acknowledgement You know like there's a billion ways you could get around it like if if you wanted that to be your plight, but No, he dark side just forgot because now dark side is a freaking idiot That could be killed by an axe and has no menace or threat at all and is angry and uncontrited like dark side is being ruined Oh my god, and the implication of of this being like Unrestricted uncut down over four hours kind of works against it because it's like okay You had no excuse not to include any of this But you can't even pretend like it was for for pacing or time constraints So you just like Snyder forgot so It's not also having the mother boxes recognize a death scream from a regular scream because Superman has screamed in the past Why did that not ripple across planet earth? He was like more hurt than usual The obvious question. What if he died via his head getting chopped off? What happens? Yeah I don't know Isn't isn't he like like covered in like kryptonite when he screams? So I can you do a power yell when he's covered in kryptonite. I don't know You think you think he wouldn't be able to do a power yell at that point, but hey, yeah, I just Maybe that's why he's all the way through I noticed this because of the beam meme repository post because there's green everywhere It's like how can he do a power yell when he's like weakened Can I point out? Um, so you you had a green lantern in this battle monkey green Worst green lantern ever and we can get to that shortly But I question here's the thing so the green lantern core exists in this universe. They've existed for thousands of years Don't you think that if they gave a shit that they would have like come to earth? Um, you know probably because they're one of their warriors fell there. It's like so these mother boxes We can't have them All coexisting on the same planet. We're gonna take these things and we're gonna move them to separate sectors of the galaxy basically Fuck moving to oa the the guardians would like you could have an army of green lanterns guarding these things But they don't they're useless. It would be impossible to invade oa basically And they did very very difficult so dirty in this movie. Good job And then they like forgot where one of them was it needs to be said right green lantern in snider's version fires three lasers And then gets killed He gets killed because a bug flies into him and knocks him to the ground and then uh dark side finishes him off In weedon's version He flies up hits someone with a hammer that he creates with his imagination Because that's the cool thing about green lanterns And then we cut to him later that he's already on the floor getting executed meaning we don't know how he died But he was defeated by steppenwolf. Which of those two do you think is superior? I'm also the second green lantern. That's just dead I don't know. I just I feel like that's already two points for joss. Just saying yeah Green lantern is really fucking cool guys. Isn't there a second green lantern as well every c die I think that that's that's in the um the nightmare of future flash thing. I think the nightmare That's killer walk by the way. They they they just killed killer walk just in the future flash Just randomly. Thanks guys that iconic character Because green lantern is like one of the one of the few ones I know of and I was like, oh, like imagination. That's that's cool And I saw a green lantern. It's like, oh, shoot. It's gonna do like the hammer thing. It's like pew pew pew Like oh, okay. The lasers the I can't think of anything labor. Like yeah the laser like It's like one division Yeah Um, sorry before we move too far away from dark side Can we talk about his plan because I'm a little confused as to whether he wants to turn all these planets to dust Or whether he wants to terraform them and rule over them because he says both Yeah, I don't know if I was confused when they were talking about the free will Thing because I thought at one point that they were gonna mind control people But I don't know if that's so when you was actually the plan when you engage the unity it turns The current planet into his home world, which is apparently a very dusty planet Which is what you could argue He's me he means when he says to the dust and secondly it'll turn everybody on there into para demons And so he controlled para demons. So it is kind of like mind control thing So does that mean that they were unable to create any para demons for a few thousand years? Well, he was he was doing it to a bunch of other planets, right So they had other mother boxes. Well, that's what yeah, he would so this is the really It all falls apart like I said mother dark side is making her mother boxes in the kitchen Right and when they discover. Oh my god earth is is the the anti-life equation, right? This is I'm sorry This film is so bad So that is the key to taking over all life in the multiverse, right? That is the just oh that is that's top tier That's like Excalibur times Uh the infinity gauntlet. That's just oh, we're winning and so You've got the ability to teleport you've got a huge army of para demons. You've got mother boxes Why not just teleport to a distant area in earth that no one's at and just do another unity Yeah, that's what I was thinking for the first battle. Am I so he could have done it for the first one too But he's released it like a shadow. Were you uh, did you survive watching the battle scene because I don't know That's just so bad I was too distracted by dark side being a pussy They literally have four factions When dark side is done, right? Is this unassailable always composed Insanely powerful villain who's and he's got his arms behind his back and he's got his like uni beam things and and Like the justice league are barely holding on to keeping up with this guy and is not even breaking a sweat That's how dark side is usually done and then when they actually get dark side to break his composure You know like whole crap stuff is happening because he is so powerful takes such Extremity to get him to that point and it's usually the final boss Yeah, you could even approach it and in this he's getting his absolute rear It's really fucking bad He wants to Destroy all life and terraform these planets so he can rule over them But who's gonna be here and why would you want to rule over? Paradamans it's um, it's the classic dare I say it's like the base It's the first motivation you come up with it for a bad guy like he just wants to control everything Like okay, yeah, but he wants to can he wants to turn everything to dust and then control it Like why really likes it like when you want to take over like a city in like, you know a war you don't Destroy the entire thing because you want to control the city, right? Am I great? I mean like okay? Like if you're trying to conquer something What do you destroy all of it? Am I missing something? So how do you lose any battles? You have like millions and trillions of paradamans by now, don't you? is We have the boom tubes like everywhere Even in the end battle when the unity is about to be like completed and dark side's just looking at them And he's like annoyed even then i'm like dude pylon Up pylon right now Should your omega beams? Um, and yeah, it's just like nothing about it works in any way shape or form A lot of the criticisms of it apply to joss's vision as well But less apply as far as I can tell from uh Going through them all the dark side stuff getting removed Makes it a lot more Clean and there's no oh, I accidentally forgot the most incredible thing that I will ever know about in my entire life Also, this is the place where I almost died. This is the place that the only places they ever defeated me They've got my they've got my mother's boxes I'm very precious And then you drive away And then you're like, oh fuck. What was the name of that planet when I'm goes? Oh Fuck Smurf It's funny because um, you contrast this with Lord of the Rings and um, at least When when aragorn takes the palantir and shows sauron Like the sword And it's like this is the sword that you know severed your fingers and separated you from the ring And so like sauron has a better memory of the exact sword the hilt of the sword that defeated him Then dark side does of the fucking planet That has the mother boxes and the anti-life equation where he was almost killed It's so funny because that's all unnecessary additional shit Basically, like you don't the anti-life equation stakes aren't needed in this movie whatsoever. We don't need it. No, they're not Um, yeah, and yeah, you have this sequence where step step wolf is like, oh my god What is the mother box showing me? This is the planet and he hits his thing down as viewers. You're all like What what is the symbols from earlier? I guess and then he's like I found the planet And you're like what what what do you mean you found the I am so confused What's happening? It's more important now. I wonder did that what did make up? Jesus christ Was that sensible for comic view comic people who knew about this like does the anti-life equation look like this in comics? No, like a big To my knowledge he like I had never read a comic um that he had actually found the anti-life equation Final crisis. He finally did and uh, oh, did he yeah Um, and basically like anyone who hears it instantly it basically he's the only will in you almost You can't see only will in the multiverse because anyone who hears it immediately just Um becomes another um subservient to his will basically um And the the life because like anti-life refers to like when you have no free will It is you are no longer living while the life equation is the source of free will And I think it's like I think something to do with the source and the Uh, um and all like there's a lot of complicated stuff to do with dc cosmic mythology, but they don't say any of that here Yeah, what you just said was infinitely more interesting because with no context It's a a movie you're going into it thinking the guy who makes these movies is very edgy Okay, what's like the most important thing the villains after oh, you know the anti-life equation Oh It's like it's like the opposite of life. Yeah, man. It's like the other thing It's like against life Yeah, which is defined as free will um, but so they don't like go into anything like how can mathematics like Define life and death like there's so much here that they have not established So you just hear anti-life equation. It's just like wait. What the fuck is that meant to be? We missed a few steps here. You're like, what the fuck? I know that he cares about it a lot Does he take a photo of the symbols and then put it into like a thing and then it's like you get coins And then you eat them and then you get little empty. I don't know I'm assuming he didn't find it on earth in the comics. So there was this He did not And and there's this thing in the DC universe. I forget what it's called But it's this like this wall made of corpses on the very edge. The the source wall was made of death Yeah, and like I thought he was staring at the source wall to try and decode it there. Um But anyway, I'm pretty sure I'm pretty sure that anyone In the comics like most people who solve the anti-life equation become part of the source wall because it's like a power No one should have so that's like an instant like you get this you die, but then dark side overcame that somehow I don't know. I haven't read I've read final crisis But I need to read like the stories that lead up to that just to fully understand how we got it because final crisis In of itself is kind of convoluted as fuck, but I guess my point is the fact that it's just on earth. It's tattooed underneath for some reason It's just yeah, it's like in it's really anti-climactic. It's like, oh, okay. There's the anti like it's just been uh, Okay, sure. Um, do you want to tell them about what you told me about the mother boxes as well? Like what they were and what they are Okay, so here's the thing turning the mother boxes into these doomsday devices these terraforming things is like making a Tricorder a doomsday weapon like these things are not meant to be these big terraforming Monstrosities, they're basically just supposed to be living computers that it happened to the source They kid they have certain abilities, but they've never been used as doomsday weapons as far as I'm Consider at least nothing that I've been able to find like I did some research to make sure I hadn't missed something huge But no whenever I look it up. It's just like yeah, yeah, I can do this it can heal people It can you know, it can bring up knowledge and stuff like it's basically a living computer and the thing is it's it's not Even apocalyptic and it's a new it's this is new genesis technology. They don't even bring up new genesis in this This is we just they just took the edgiest parts of this Much larger mythology that jack Kirby created and just vomited it on through the screen as this edgy grimdark Fucking bullshit It's I don't know It's just they they needed to have the infinity stones thing. I guess or What was it? There's like there's like boxes and transformers. I didn't see that What I'm confused about is like there's like So cyborg's dad Uh, or whoever that's who it was. Yeah, who uh used the laser on the box. Yep. Yes And he wasn't trying to destroy it. He was trying to Make it super heated so that they would see the abnormality on a satellite With thermal imaging. Yes Even though where it wound up going was like their fire base that they had just created with the first two boxes Or it's like this they they had this gigantic like fire force field already. It's like Seems like you probably see that from thermal imaging like This is supposed to be a completely abandoned area. Why is there like this gigantic neighborhood of fire right now? They um, they they scan for like unique systems in joss's vision, right because they don't have that hotline So they they say like we're gonna look for you scanning all of the satellites for like a unique signature from the boxes to Discover the place and then they have their character scenes and then he's like, oh, we found it. You know that sort of thing um because because yeah, uh, I'm not convinced that Silas killing himself was originally intended to be Um that he was putting a tracker on the box I'm more convinced that originally he was supposed to be trying to destroy it and that it failed because he was Hoping it would work and it didn't and then as time went on zack was probably like oh man It kind of fucks his sacrifice up doesn't it when it's like oh, he was just wrong and he killed himself. It's like, uh Maybe he had to make it a bit more like noble. It's like I actually sacrificed myself Yeah, and the idea that Silas is somehow fully aware that this laser will apply such heat to it that it couldn't first of all 3.5 million kelvin, um, wow I Don't think they have any clue what they're dealing with with that. Do you do you know the little glass container that stepper wolf punches through? It's like that was containing 3.5 million kelvin. Yeah We've been a glass on the back crab by the way I'm just thinking like, um, couldn't he have activated the laser from outside the glass cage Wait, sorry. What do you mean? That would make sense from like a safety standard in this building That's like a lot of scientists operate in wait. Sorry. You said Shouldn't it prevent it from activating with anybody like in the room? Is it no? No? No? No? I'm saying it shouldn't just be possible for Cyborg's dad to put the cube in there and then activate the laser from outside the cage like oh The logic was that I'm just trying to remember how he activated it He got in put the thing on the yeah, he goes to leave He sees steppenwolf and then he backs up like the idea is too late. I'm mostly okay with that, but I actually think like a smartphone like what did he do from inside to activate it? He has a little controller. He picked up. It was very quick. Yeah. Oh like a wireless I guess so. Yeah Um, step over immediately picks up that mother box So he's able to withstand something that's got that kind of heat on it, but he can't withstand superman's heat vision True Oh, well, um, yeah, he does just kind of grab it doesn't I would I would I would I would like to introduce Something of a large criticism. I kind of a who'd be a knows about this one. I know meme knows about it. Um I guess I'll I'll just do it the way I did it with me. I feel like so we know that um Cyborg cares quite a bit about his dad, right? You could all agree with that He's he likes his dad. He's he's on good terms a bit of a thumbs up less. Seems like it. Yeah um One of the problems people like to highlight with this film is in terms of the final climax with the weaponry needed To get past the dome as well as just nuking all of like the parademons Cyborg could have used his abilities with missiles to do it. It's saving the world, right? So it's not going to be like a big worry that I don't know the usa has a few less rockets or whatever I was like, dude, but you know the world's about to end. You're still in Russia as well Yeah, yeah, are you still from anywhere? Um, we know he can do that Because his dad gave us a very long explanation of the limits that cyborg has now These these powers cyborg has are incredible And there's so much we can extrapolate in terms of the issues it causes throughout the entire movie But I'm aiming for one right now I'm I'm hoping Anybody who doesn't know where I'm going the second they realize that I've just I've just got to wait for them to say it But uh, we we discover the cyborg has the ability to essentially control Almost everything they show us like a submarine Like a phone network a pylon in scanning through all these different things that apparently he has full control of like the entire network of earth And it's all a range. You can just do whatever he wants to everything his dad says We is like a people are fully influenced by almost like everything technology And so if he controls that and they control us then he controls us like and that says, you know The challenge for you is going to be about choosing what to do as a hero I find that all very fascinating. I think you're gonna make a really good movie out of it I don't think they do a very good job in this movie but right he has Full access and control to machinery As then can uh, basically reverse things exploding No, no, no, no Even more basic than that. Are you saying that he could have piloted on batman's ship? No, no, no even more basic Even more destructive Yeah, it's correct. Wait Our laser is technology. Is it not I think it lays this technology. Yeah. Yeah Hmm. Hmm. I'd say a door is technology. Oh my god. Yeah, there you go He could have prevented that probably But he's not as fast as the flash. He's like still using dial up Yeah, what if the laser didn't have a network connection and it wasn't you don't you don't even need one from the looks of the internet All electrical grids you can control. Yeah, the dam was able to control it wirelessly, right? Otherwise, he wouldn't have been able to do it from inside it, right? Thank I would have to see that scene again to Basically just he's connected to basically everything. Um, obviously not like grass, but any electrical for sure I don't even think because like With with how many security cameras he was looking at at the beginning It's like it doesn't seem like it needs to be on wi-fi like not every Camera is connected to wi-fi. Maybe more now. Chelsea rewinds the tape recorder So, um, not only could he have switched it off to save his dad, which he absolutely would have done But he also could have switched it back on when steppenwolf stands in front of it He would have killed me And steppenwolf is stepping is is in front of this thing crotch first by the way So he could have given him the most severe case of crotch rot this sign of outvisintory just gonna point that out That's the one I like He did fix the tape recorder without even touching it like he's He's as as rayfisher said he's essentially dr. Manhattan So, um, that only makes it worse Makes it a lot worse because That's one of the biggest payoffs in the living mother box basically I like how he felt bad for that woman at the beginning and made it seem like she won the atm lottery but it's like I don't know the irs is probably gonna fuck her over So true As soon as the next taxi isn't having like she's she's not gonna get away with that She's going to jail Did he materialize money or did that money come from somewhere else? He he I guess he like took a penny from everyone else's bank account or something I was about to say even if he moved so if he created money, it's gonna be trackable And if he moved money, it's gonna be trackable. Oh, yeah, like it's always the irs Yeah, there's a record of it in her account. Otherwise, it's not in her account And the fact is like she won a lottery and they're gonna like there's no proof of her entering it So they should be like where this money come from and if she doesn't report it she could get in serious trouble Yeah, and there's no such thing as a atm lottery from your bank She's gonna tell one friend the next day like I just I went to judge my money And I won through the bank machine and they're gonna be like, uh, police Hello So much bitcoin and just why that So what I agree. I agree the whole thing about um, the laser thing I I reckon people's attempted defense would be and I'm not saying it's good But this is what their defense would be is that man, he was just he's still learning his powers. Okay, and he wasn't He was he wasn't even On on on the ball that he could have he was able to do it and he was too slow to realize I would I would understand you but I would actually argue that in the reverse I would say he's so passionate. He would like possibly Do something harsh to the laser like Destroy like reach out instinctively to stop the laser. Yeah, like I would argue was emotional It's like, uh, what's the name star lord in infinity war like you'd be like fuck that laser So, you know how like like when he does things in his hacker mind There's like this weird visualization or maybe it was just like a metaphor when it was like You control the world's financial systems and you get the golden bear And the In that I think when when his dad was getting lasered I think he was hacking into it and then like inside his head Do you see this like big this big panel that he that was blocking him and it says prove You're not a robot and there was like one of those checkboxes, but he passed it And I think that's probably what happened Just click on all the pictures with bicycles, but he was like I don't know Which of these images have traffic lights in them. It's like some of them kind of half have them. What am I supposed to do? Oh guys, I tried Yeah, well, I just want to point out right that Fairly odd parents has a more mature and grounded approach to To just poofing money into existence than zack's night is just asleep because timmy turner Can't there's a rule in the because of course you have rules as to what wishes you cannot can and cannot make in that show And one of them is that you can't just wish for more money Because that money has to come from somewhere meaning that if you wish for money you would be stealing from someone and stealing is against the rules so cyborg giving woman to it's the consequences of Of poofing money into existence is better handled in fucking fairly odd parents Than it is in zack's night is just league But when he wishes for a giant chocolate milkshake does that chocolate milkshake have to come from other chocolate milkshakes? So are you stealing? No, no, no, you just magic that I don't look. I think it's like you can't add money into this Circulation Also, I want to point out that In the standard cut cyborg says I speak to intelligence This one's saying she can't fly because of the software issue referring to the Big ship that batman is working on but I can fix it with a little time That doesn't require an internet connection. It's in the weed and cut where He requires an internet connection to be able to like access electronics Yeah, and um, you actually see him starting up to fix it in tonight's cut He's just standing somewhere and he just starts like doing thing like it was like Screens come up and it's just like yeah, he can just do whatever he wants whenever he wants He's uh, he's really overpowered and so we talked about how flash can essentially destroy the stakes someone else can too But mauler mauler listen. Yeah flash flash fell on wonder woman's boobs in this one shot That means that that movie is worse than this. Well south of the russian family, you know, did that happen? Well, he yes It's the same joke as in age of ultron where someone falls on on like their head on their boobs area And then they're like, oh my god, that's so awkward and then they go. Yeah, that is so awkward and then they move on It's it's a really shit joke. I don't know why Was it a studio was it joss been like, ah, no people love it But you can't notice why a casual audience would notice one issue far more easily than the other issue Oh, I mean transformers were super successful, right? Audiences have all kinds of thoughts and feelings. I'll never understand You're an interesting bumblebee which I would consider the best of the live action one because it has some really solid character work in it That made the least money. So what do we know about kino? You know Hmm But when it comes to characters like cyborg everyone the the consensus seems to be oh my gosh, they did You know, they did right by him in this movie. He's incredible but when you But I feel like so many of the characters in this movie Are the same in that they're like I'm just so like I didn't ask to have this responsibility. I didn't ask to be bored like Cyborg is given another chance at life and he's doing the mopey frankenstein thing Which to be fair is the same as the justice league The jossus league that is But I don't find him relatable as a character at all The problem is we needed a movie for him. We didn't not this is so yeah They just made justice league too quick. And so I think most people when they see this cut, they're like, no I actually like we actually get a bit of Backstory to this character is what my impression is. That's what I've heard anyway. I mean, it's really rough But he's not in his own movie They established really quickly through flashbacks as well, which is a little painful to me sometimes like in terms of just Ah, man, we just got to get this done. Don't we because we got to catch up Which is like, yeah He was a star athlete His dad wasn't always there for him because he was busy with his work And then they go into an accident And then he kind of hates his dad because he feels that so if he were there the accident may not have happened And also that he worked really hard to bring him back to life. But he's now It's hard to swallow the monster part because you're thinking in your head like death Or awesome cyborg body. You're like What would you take? Yeah, and so you I guess you needed more We needed that relationships Timeline and I honestly think if we had a cyborg movie prior to this it may have made it work excluding all of the fucking logical bullshit, but like Those two's relationship that could have been a whole movie And they tried yeah, or like, I don't know if the You could you could make like a fucking special and throw it on hbo max if you're going this road anyway Doesn't even have to be successful. Yeah, and I was gonna you could go as far as like Initially, it's not as awesome as he is in this movie Like maybe at first he actually like it's kind of a painful and limited experience And he almost wants to die and his dad won't let him You know, yeah, they could have worked with it much better to make it More traumatic for him like what if he couldn't have any like he can't feel anything when he touches something and and it's like his Dead because he's lost so much physical sensation and it's really traumatic for him to adjust to that could have worked Um, but we're not given that we like we're just kind of showing your Because being alive, you know, all those powers. I mean it's like that's that's pretty cool Well, what if he did he is he able to taste still he's a kid eat a burger? I know he can't in teen titans Can you make himself a penis? Of course he can't be able to A long dong of the cyborg I mean, well Wouldn't cyborg able to uh, like activate um, like vibrators remotely How many settings the cyborg have? Dude He can't control when he's scared. What is what you can't control if he's horny just runs around Oh, yeah, you walk around He launched a fucking rocket at superman and he didn't he couldn't even control that Where did he get the replacement rocket? Like he has to replace that at some point, right? I can explain that they needed to piss superman off There you go. Yeah, that was stupid. That was really my auto defense system But never okay Yeah, joss actually uh, see so this is the thing that's that's an example, right? When you when you saw josses on its own it was like, oh man, that was shit These auto defense system which had come up prior in the film get shot at superman. We're sitting there like no It's not very satisfying but fine, I guess and then sniders reveals the truth, which is that's what joss had to work with So joss tried to add a scene to at least set it up and then pay it off. So neither was just like nah, fuck it It's his auto defense But it's too bad. It's not a threat. It's like he was scatting us. That's good enough. I guess he was like angry I could see his eyes. He was chill. He was looking at his his statue and shit It was only he was only angry once they'd fired the rocket He was really good. Oh, by the way, this is actually leading into another criticism So to be honest with you the more you interpret him as angry the more it adds to another criticism I think most people here already have which is what the fuck superman Yeah, this is like his natural state he forgot who he is so like If if he wasn't influenced by like a loving family or something like he was he would just be an asshole Yeah, it's not like jason born where he's confused and just trying not to get killed This this is his default setting Is destroy everything and he's one dead lowest away from being a force and let's we cannot put enough emphasis on this worse than hit low He kills He tries to kill all life on earth the dark side guys once lowest dies Um, I gotta I gotta head out pretty soon. There's uh groceries that got delivered to my door. I'm gonna Give him get him put away and uh Start watching some movies that I gotta go through but thanks for having me on. Um, Well, is there anything else you wanted to say quickly before we go about the movie? Yeah. Yeah some final comments of note I guess uh, I love The uh, the the editing for the musical score Where every single time Wonder Woman showed up on screen Like it was such a punchline And it was like as the movie kept going it became more and more frequent It's just like even the point where like Steppenwolf's head gets cut off. It's like it's just it didn't stop And then I love I love the uh, that joker got marketed to shit And not only does he not say we live in a society in the film But he shows up in a dream and that was his whole thing in the movie and it's just like Oh, he just showed up for a scene that didn't happen. I guess good old connect Oh, yeah, and then they gave flash a cg mustache at the end, which was weird because I thought I don't know It's like poetry rhymes. Yeah, exactly. All right. Thanks for having me on that was fun. Okay. See you later Bye everybody. See you later. Uh, watch my kimber review if you're listening. Bye. Bye Everyone do that Yeah, and unfortunately I'm gonna have to head off in about 10 minutes too, but I can still hang around for a little bit You able to return after that? Maybe I don't know it depends on the day goes because unfortunately some unexpected work did it just pop up yesterday And I'm gonna have to jump on too. Yeah, that's okay Um to add on to what you were saying meme about how he becomes hitler basically because uh, Lois dies it reminds me of um It reminds me of this uh, this other back like, um, it's not bright burn. I'm thinking of Fuck I was I was just Um funlander, um not homelander it was um Fuck I lost my train of thought. I'm sorry guys Sure, it's alfred. Yeah, it reminds me of the alfred. Yeah, it's the only thing that alfred would do This movie's really fucking bad. Yes, um, I know you I mean Well, I was gonna say because we kind of touched on it there. Uh, just the Superman thing So it's it's it's very worrying that um, he does all of that at a base level And so only once he's given time that he's like, oh, yeah, I guess I do kind of care Beings don't get killed gray worm gray worm is what I was thinking of from game of thrones turns into an asshole Just because they killed uh misande. Yeah. Oh, yeah true Uh, oh, yeah Yeah, well good. So for anybody who's confused What we're presented is the when lois is dead or gets killed or whatever Superman decides, you know what dark side's got a point. Yeah really bad And also lois dies in the back, okay? sorry That happened in this movie. Yeah, lois dies in the future. Yeah puts his hand on superman's shoulder Superman Right, so this could be the dark side does a some kind of mind control or whatever But the problem with that is that the movie doesn't share any context in that regard It just makes it seem as though if lois dies superman gets so upset that he becomes evil That he becomes hitler. Yeah now super hitler This only happened in what the injustice series of comic books in the video game where superman goes evil. Um Am I correct on that one? Yeah, though in that one he also had metropolis nuked and even then I would argue becomes cartoonishly evil Because he like but he doesn't just become authoritarian He's like he kills he kills heroes. He starts killing hero heroes really casually And there's a point where billy batson finally stands up to him and he ice breaths his mouth shut so that he can't say shazam Um, and then he melts his brain with his heat vision meaning that he just kills a child So it's just like even in that I consider him way too evil considering And I I've never liked that notion that you know If it was just I superman going evil because it's so So contrary to his character, but with you know injustice that was like a what if scenario wasn't the main timeline or anything It's like oh, they're just having fun with that one over there. Um, yeah and and yeah, so The fact that they're introducing this idea into main kind of continuity Really annoys me because it's so contrary to his character and and it makes him like Ah So all your goodness was just you know intrinsic on Your relationship with this woman. You don't actually have any true Standards independently of that It's just yeah, and we see when he wakes up that his default state is murder everything with laser beams As a small little thing about the scene where he you know comes back He's fighting them all right and wonder woman goes to do her bracer Super boom thing whatever you want to call that her power move her boss move And he grabs her hands before she can do it as if he knows that's what she's about to do And that just reads to me like someone who knows what her power is and what she's about to do with it Because she's just putting her arms together He like grabs them to stop them and it's like oh he prevented the boom from happening But how does he know the boom's gonna happen if he doesn't remember who they are That's a good point actually. Yeah Well, people would say he's working off base Instinctual memory um because he reacts aggressively towards batman when he sees him and stuff I like how he walks to him like the terminator like he just does not have a mind outside of murder You just have that blank expression because at least in the joss cut he's just like oh I know you and there's actual like thoughts behind those eyes. Well in this one He's just got that blank stare of murder time. Yeah, like in Snyder's he wants to murder but he wants to super murder batman in joss's cut. He's like Attacked and is confused and then is like you you're the one that wanted me dead and now you're dragging me out of the grave I fucking hate you like thus seems to be like an attempt at trying to mend this because i'm sorry How do you fix that scene? Any ideas? Um Literally like it would have to be some sort of pet cemetery type curse. It would have to be something that you would have to um I don't know. There's some weird. That's a change from the reason as well They dropped the whole idea that like oh, we shouldn't bring him back because he might come back different Yeah, so like two points to weeden one being that they push back on it Which they should and the second point being a lot of references to how his brain is all fucky Uh, as much as people say pet cemeteries are like a cringe line. It's like guys It's good though for giving context to what the film is trying to tell us about the current state of superman Like they were they were comforted There's horrible things that may have happened as a result bringing back through the mother box and lois is able to Calm his mind. Maybe in a future movie you could add more to it. Like he's The portions of himself aren't the way they used to be. I don't know I feel like this movie is the time to do that and they just didn't I would just say like the issue of lois being the one that kind of resets Superman and makes him all right. It's bad in both cuts. It's worse in snider cut. Do we want to explain why? Um, oh, yeah, because he's just randomly there as opposed to actually being called Is I was gonna I was gonna say I'm not sure which wouldn't what how are you tackling that go ahead? Which which what what way? So again, I would say like a way to fix the scene is there's some sort of pet cemetery Monkey's paw type drawback to using the mother box to awake superman And there's some secondary step that they have to do after they reanimate his body to get him back to normal Okay, they have to like somehow detain him. They've got I don't know They've got a kryptonite jail cell that they can use to fucking Detain him while they try to set him straight um But in both versions of the movie He's uh, he like goes back to normal because he sees lois lane and so um You have in one cut where Batman is um, I guess being somewhat cautious at least has a semblance of a plan even though He doesn't use kryptonite, which should have been their plan a to begin with but that's beside the point He's like we'll have lois uh on her way here You know just in case That happens Whereas in center cut really they had no plan at all and um, if it weren't for lois showing up at that exact time They all would have been toast And on that point I have seen tweet I think one of you guys might have sent me it where they said it's like super awesome That martian manhunter was the one that got lois to turn up in that place When if you watch the movie, it's the reverse Martian manhunter is telling her to move on and go back to work meaning stop fucking going to that grave site every day Well the statue every day and stop being journalism girl again And so he's visiting that place one last time and it's the day that superman is resurrected Pain absolute pain And she's walking away as it happened like she almost misses him as well Can we also just mention that that martha manhunter scene is way worse than the scene between Between martha actual martha and lois and jossus league Can we just say that? Oh, yeah, so it's another point for joss as far as i'm concerned. Yeah Yeah, martha manhunter makes it so oh, there's no actual character interaction between martha ken Superman's mother superman's grieving mother and lois lane. No, it's lois lane with a guy pretending to be superman's mother I got it by the way Well, like we've only known him as as swan wick And then like we've never actually gotten much development with that character or martian manhunter But there's plenty that we at least know about martha in comparison to to him I like to think that motha was martian manhunter the whole time raised superman But you know fringy had been saying this all along that he's going to be martian manhunter And it's going to cause all sorts of problems like why didn't you do this? Why didn't you do that? I kind of thought they wouldn't ever do that Because it would cause so many problems, but they did they did it Martian manhunter appearing in noise the hell out of me because of all those reasons. Uh, it's just And again in jail in the justice league animated show the first time we see Martian manhunter apparently he'd been standing guard on mars this entire time So that's the explanation and when those invaders he was standing guard against got loosed and went to worth to terraform earth His immediate instinct was fuck i gotta go to earth to warn them And the only reason he took so long is because he immediately got captured when he got down there So, um, what what what is this martian manhunter's response to a terraforming alien force? Oh, yeah, let me let let me just remind you all of what this guy can do Super martian strength Hang on hang on Metabolism and durability super martian vision, which has martian vision heat vision electromagnetic spectrum vision microscopic vision x-ray vision night vision I'm only halfway through genius level intellect shape shifting invisibility intangibility regeneration Extended longevity flight martian nine senses telekinesis telepathy pain inducement and astral projection guys Do any of those powers sound like they would have been incredibly useful in any of the potentially world-ending events between man of steel and bbs Or suicide squad when you said pain inducement. Do you mean he like makes you feel pain with his mind or something? Pain presumably because he's telepathic so he could like make you feel pain Like could he gives out a major migraine and he's just like oh that hurts a lot and you're like, yeah stop being evil probably yeah The way they balance martian manhunter usually is that is Weakness is way more common because he's weak to fire I this it's I it's either psychological or physical depending on the interaction I prefer to be physical because that way you have this You know he makes him a bit more of a glass cannon because fire man that is like so fucking common You can make that with a box of matches, you know Yeah So the fact that martian manhunter has been around and has decided to not help out at all Up to this point is like they've already character assassinated martian manhunter and he's barely had any scenes He's had two scenes. They've already implicitly character assassinated martian manhunter from the very beginning of man of steel Some people have called me the martian manhunter Not really very beginning of man of steel. I mean like from the beginning of the bceu with starting with man of steel Yeah, yeah, it was just they were trying to shoehorn in a cameo without even thinking of the consequences Um, it's time Yeah, and apparently this wasn't by the way guys. This was not snider's vision He saw a fan theory on vero apparently and was just like, hmm. I like that theory I'm gonna I'm gonna slot it into my film and just see you know, because I I want to respect the fans wishes The original 2017 recordings and cuts would not have had A swanwick and then martian manhunter martha that wouldn't have happened. That was a new recording Is added in because fuck it. It'll be really cool Because he's flying by the seat of his pants and so all this talk of like, oh his true Initial artistic vision that he had the whole time is complete horseshit He's like means go ahead No, it's just that I am so sick of this particular, you know Around the movie that oh, this is what he always wanted to do and just wasn't able like guys He's making he's making so many changes up at the last minute because he wants it to be as different from the other one as he can And all these different factors going into it. It's not his pure undiluted original vision. It's nonsense And I've got I've got another point to drive home So moller you pointed out that what uh, martha manhunter was telling lois to do was to move on And that's that motivates lois to visit the memorial one last time, right? Which means that the original cut was there's no scene with martha manhunter meaning that Lois is just on her regular morning routine We don't know when she's going to stop doing it As set up earlier in the film Which means that the reshoot Actually made the movie worse Wait, how they reshot a scene to follow you're saying it's worse because having marshmallow there So the idea was Originally you have they set up lois. This is her morning routine. She visits the memorial every morning, right? Then they shoot the martian manhunter scene. That's like one of the the new Scenes right the newly shot scenes cool and what that does is this is it basically gives that That scene where lois shows up And superman comes back that is uh, that's basically saying yeah This would be the last chance that they would have had of lois showing up here You know, it makes it incredibly more lucky that that happened this morning The martha scene existed originally where martha told her that so she would have been turning up for the last time Regardless, what's added on is the exiting of the apartment and turning into swan wick and then turning into martian manhunter Wait, that's what they added. Yeah The point so the point is okay that martha Was martha and then when he was fucking around with everything He was like, what if martha was martian manhunter just so I can have a scene with martian manhunter in it Because there was no fucking reason Martian manhunter would have done what he did if anything he nearly fucked everything up Like sorry, so I was under the impression that like the martha scene in there was also a reshoot. Sorry So, yeah, the scene where she talks to lois is honestly I think when we were watching it, uh, we acknowledged that we had talked over it And that it probably was a good scene and to be honest with you it's a solid scene like Then they ruin it Yeah, they do Hey guys, I'm unfortunately gonna have to be out You son of a bitch. How could you do that? How could you do that to us? I wish I didn't have to it was me to pleasure as usual have fun tearing this Of course, there's a lot to go into Uh, well, thank you so much for hanging out Hey, we'll catch you around. I'm glad you enjoyed the movies I did enjoy it. I like that's the thing. Um, some of it's the the more noticeable things I was able to get a decent amount of oh, yeah, you know See Um, but oh wow, there's so much broken in it Especially you dive into the details. So have fun guys. I will see you around. Yes. Bye To the loo now your title is fake news everyone that's in the call is part of the efap league Yes, and yeah, all right. Yeah It's in the description. So I figured the justice league Rags couldn't make it today. He is on a vacation and uh, Bringy doesn't have that excuse. He was supposed to be two fucking hours ago But it's all right, we'll survive without him though. I will say Sad news for the I I come if I told you guys or not I told metal and and chat I was about to find out but this is going to be a short man I only have another Two hours before we have to end the stream. Um, so it's probably going to be spent doing as much talk as we can about Well the cut the both cuts um But it's okay. We still got two hours It's it's a good thing If there's a ticking clock, that means it's good writing. Yeah now everything's more tense It's a good thing like that Kara made capital Oh flash instead of fringy because that would have been incredibly ironic. Otherwise Yeah The flash is from now. That's only 1 a.m. For me. I could do some streaming myself Oh my god. Oh my goodness. You weird are Just shot up. Yeah, so I feel like uh, we've already blown enough holes in the um, Sandrica is better narrative as I was gonna say yeah, I feel like It wasn't necessarily structured to do it that way But I feel like we've made a pretty strong case so far chat How are you feeling about the whole snider versus justice? Uh out of curiosity post your honesty. I don't care if you mean to us. It's okay. I'm just curious. It's the cat's conversation You know, we're all chill just having a chat Um, both terrible. I hope we all agree on that. Maybe they don't and that point We just need to talk more about how everything sucks One of them is more has betrayed us Take over the efet metal We'll stop in the stream as soon as the clocks go back. It's got nothing to do with the clocks going back There's not some kind of british magic that has to take place and I don't think my clocks go back to the night. Talk about dark side not going through the portal. Oh, I think we did that Oh, yeah at the end. I'm not using omega beams not sending his parrot even through not You know, you just kind of stares and the justice league just kind of stares And it's just kind of like superman could have like zipped in there and like ripped his head off potentially I don't know how strong dark side is it's very hard I gotta take superman's ass usually Yeah, this literally you mean outside of this movie. There's still uh, you know The scale is kind of fucked right now. There's still plenty of uh, sniders is definitely better. So Apparently we've not done our job, but that is okay Uh, I don't expect us to make a full convincing argument. It's sometimes hard to remember all of the arguments for that but Um, true true. Oh, and what's funny is that I'm running the movies in the background and uh justice league is over Justice league ends with superman walking to the camera with his red and blue suit under his clothes as it should be Sort of the fucking lame black suit that they don't even give a reason for him to use the black suit in this movie It's just there for comics fan service Yeah, I thought maybe they'd try to make it more meaningful, but no It's just a metaphor, bro Don't you get it? Fuck this not a cut a complete breakdown my ass. This is pot one Uh, maybe it is. Maybe it is Austin. Maybe we're already planning to do another nighter stream, all right This is the initial I've seen um, I've seen brown table high top and cosmonauts videos and they're all horrible I started I started brown tables and I cringed into oblivion It was it was a change to his mind, but Look, we are with the sander cut. We are gonna milk this sucker dry So this is a gold mine. We have stumbled upon a gold mine of content because this movie is It's fucking horrible, dude It's like something that's something that this this fucking horrible has this devotee of a fan base that has this Many people saying oh, it's actually really great is mind-boggling depressing that anyone Even remotely compared it favorably to lord of the rings causes me physical pain. Like, you know what? Let's go let's go over and let's let's do let's do rankings. Okay, so Whoa, whoa, what what that's like a thing for the end? I mean, well, we could also rank it just based on the fact that we've actually seen it, but sure It's It's just me we could we could do it. Let's do it like right in the middle. I don't know What is what I'm sure there's more to talk about moller give us a new Oh, I'm the topic as a roller that sounds Yeah, you got no kind of I've only seen it the once um There's loads of fucking luck throughout the entire plot and this is applicable to both films because i'm not necessarily Gunning to just spend the stream talking about how jossus is better or any shit like that. I was like no They both suck um the timing on like loads of different things with those different people is really annoying so one easy example is um Aquaman is told by This change is dependent on the cup is still a problem. So willem de foe is like yo Aquaman there's these people stealing our people and the mother box might be in danger and aquaman's like I don't care because I don't care about anything because I'm so cool Drinks his bottle and you're like, all right. Yeah, and then later on he's like, you know I might mosey on over to the mother box. I guess it's like. Oh my god. My mirror is about to die I'm literally a split second Like it was any later and she would have been dead. It's just like wow um Who aquaman? Well, the funny part as well as the the the snide cut totally shits all over aquaman like I don't understand at all how Like anybody would have liked this if they had made the film aquaman because Oof like the idea that they they argue that king orm the guy who is obsessed with like becoming the king Full king and leading the world to the point of possibly taking over earth Doesn't care that the item in his kingdom that can destroy earth has been taken like, um Yeah, no, I don't agree. I was like, oh, he's dealing with rebels. Like, what are you dealing with rebels? What are you talking about? and That just ties into how they needed to get man Amazonians and atlantians out of the fucking story They we can't be having them So This is what I essentially concluded when thinking about it. You got the atlantians Don't do it because they're dealing with petty shit The amazonians don't do it because they're too stupid to leave the island They don't know how instead they shoot arrows at man and hope that they notices and then man Man man has no clue. It's what's going on and so When you guys think about the theme of stronger united We have the race of man. It's completely ignorant to the fight The race of amazonians are too stupid to like use a boat and then the atlantians are too petty to even consider this war Like what a great representation. It's like, well, no, you don't understand It's the it's kind of good right because like the those civilizations should be co-opping with each other It's like, well, wouldn't it be better if they actually wear it? It's like, no, no, no, no Because it's their representatives that do you we got the amazonian the atlantian and Batman's like the world of man, you know is strong united I feel like it shits on itself hardcore with that. You know again applies to both cuts. I kind of hate it Yeah Oh for sure. I thought of something that You know, this might come as a shock to some people But a a line of comedy in the joss weedon version actually improves the film slightly I know call me crazy, but there's the scene where batman first meets aquaman in this version Forgive me if I get the line not exactly correct, but Aquaman says something like uh, the strongest go alone And then it just is left at that but in the weedon version He goes the strongest go alone or strongest alone, right and goes I'm pretty sure that's that's the opposite of how it goes. That's that's not the saying at all It's like, uh, how funny line, but you can tell joss weedon heard that line and goes Wait, that's the opposite of that's not how that works. Who would ever say that if you remember now If in our coverage Aquaman says that and then rags is like what no, it's the other way around and like as he says that bed athlete goes Yeah, the opposite of what it's just like hey, that's nice It's a bit. Yeah, it's a it's like the closest thing you get to like That was an interaction I guess like aquaman's kind of an idiot and an asshole because what who the fuck says that But yeah, you know the response pretty good and then you find out in the original cut that That wasn't there. He just it's so awkward He says ever heard the saying strong mannered strong or alone that he goes batman's Super bad died while fighting next to me. He goes my point exactly like Okay, why did it's like batman wasn't even listening to him and then And then there's like cyborg bailing out of the backcrab and in the joss cut flash goes Hey, did he just bail and and in the fucking snider cut? That's just what he does like there's no awareness of the fact This is a very strange thing to do just While everyone's still hanging on for dear life on this fucking war machine It could have sworn Yeah, like it came across as weird even in the joss version And flash saying that at least you're like, oh well at least the characters feel the same way we do Like that was odd and it's like, oh, he went to get the box. Okay, but in the snider cut It's just like he went to get the box and you're like all right, but you could have Left a note I'm just a song you're a snider man butcher these characters tonight. Oh my god And lowest lane ain't all right All those names ignore me Beautiful you got to do something to keep your brain from melting, right? It's so weird to have to compare these two as well because they're just so awful I was gonna say like as far as I can say a joss like blows sniders out of the Water, but at the same time you zoom out of the scale and they're both right next to each other Yeah It's a whopping three versus a two or something like that. Yeah I probably can see that it's a two. Yeah, there's enough that breaks the will it could even be a one I'm not actually sure yet. That's when we definitely go over um Reconstructing matter at will at distance. I don't know man That's the feeling we're in trouble. We're in lots of trouble for for what that means Uh And of course the Time travel stuff, uh, I think you could try and fix that if you made a sequel to this Feel like you have to apply some limits immediately that also don't fuck with the previous movie I mean you could just put it into your story pretty much like things like suddenly Changed like things not all the same and Flash like my one and that didn't happen like what was happening? Well, um, everyone has cancer now Is it oh no What if the film opened with whatever you're doing for his character and stuff? But you know in in and around it he coughs up a little bit of blood And you're like wait what and then he gets checked out and you know Damage was done to his system in some way shape or form But it was the first time he probably did a significant one and that's why it didn't hurt him too much But maybe he's confused as to why that's the case until he does it for a second time in a casual sort of setting with Some normal crime and then stops the criminal from having shot, you know a civilian or whatever And then saves them and then he coughs up a lot more blood and he's like, oh shit And yeah, I can't do that too many times. Yeah, and then you you you fixed it you you Because because I just think it's really unsatisfying when um You have a character that essentially just has an option to Save the entire world at no cost to himself and he chooses to do that And it's considered one of the greatest payoffs in the history of anything ever Like the videos I've seen praising that scene Kind of blow my mind a little bit because I don't get why that's an effective scene beyond the CGI I'm like, yeah, it looks pretty cool. And it's like oh, it's so meaningful for his character It doubles back on what his father told him. Remember he's like, I just want you You know, you're one of the best of the best Barry and Barry's like, you know, you would you were right dad One of the best of the best Like that's not um, no, you're not that's not anything. That's two sentences and they're the same one The fact that this is happening is all his fault because cyborg was more than ready Yep to receive his blue goo and he just didn't And so I'm left very confused because it just chat for reference, right Remove all of the splendor all of the effects and everything and just sit flash in a room with a button that says If you want the will to end press this and he goes, I'm not going to press it Not going to press it and everyone claps Like, okay And that's what I would say is the what's happening underneath the scene Uh in a script sense while on top It's this incredible sequence where the world is reforming as he steps on to each piece By the way, how does that work? Um, I didn't want to question the time Stuff too much because I know people are going to be like this is this is cringy Why are you going into so much detail about these things? It's just magical bullshit. I was like, I don't know I just He rewound it to the exact amount of time he needed. Did he have control over that or was that just luck? And then the steps he's taking seem to be recovering earth faster than the main recovery of earth if you know what I mean also, um when he's uh talking doesn't it seem like um It's like he's moving in slow motion, but he's able to talk essentially at normal speed I I don't understand how any of it works. I don't this is part of the problem, right? It's not just that I don't care that one of my heroes my superheroes decides not everyone should die I'm like, yeah, that's You know because someone might be like, what do you mean these happens all the time? It's like no no no what usually happens is the superhero decides My life is worth everyone else My life's worth giving up for everyone else. That's usually what the stakes are This time it was everyone is should live. Yeah It's like Why doesn't flash just go back to the events of bvs and grab the spear off superman and stab doomsday at superhuman speed Um Thing is as we said earlier the flash destroys everything already It's kind of if ever there's a you know a gorilla that's supercharged by whatever he's smashing through things like flash Parallel him Yes, like flash has to throw, you know A steel box at him really fast Ah, it's like his organs are everywhere and flash is like oof That's uh Down he goes and so yeah the flash the flash breaks everything in a lot of other ways too not even just with the time travel because He he touches things and interacts with objects while he's going at the at his max speed or close to it And it's fine. It doesn't do any damage to him So he could just vapor like he could vaporize people by running through him and he just never does that like You have Dark side and step em off and then this army of parademons from a hundred thousand wheels that have all been converted It's like oh It's all you need to do is have them pouring in because they are desperate to Use unity right and who can take them out? Well, you have batman knocking out maybe all of the technical defenses and then Trying to organize the team in a captain america type of way Flash his main job is to keep stopping all of the parademons because they're super duper fast Like um, I Oh, that's interesting. Um if flash is too too soon in bruce's flashback that would mean he can't control it or Can't control it definitively right it would be wonky Well, it's implied but then he does it really fucking precisely in this film which gives me Pause for migraine. He just got worse. He just got worse at traveling through time as ten went by Um, but yeah Think of the action scenes you can have with like ten parademons per second coming through some kind of portal Where the flash has to beat them all in different ways while super fast Just you can keep When you're bouncing around the different characters doing different things You have him dealing with that and then you also have him realizing that there are other things happening He has to take care of in different areas like to overwhelm and challenge flash You have to basically like create really difficult stakes from to deal with But at the same time you know other things going on because the team have got a matter Because the problem with both films is flash can just dominate each probably should have But at least in joss's cut he's shown to be doing that He's shown to be saving people shown to be attacking things in sniders He goes in a circle for ages and everyone thinks that's better And in in in snipers he runs up a staircase and runs down and runs back up to motivate people as opposed to just Escorting them out Like they don't even bring up the calorie thing again Like you would imagine that oh he is his speed becomes more limited the less he get you know the less food He has on hand and in given time So that's how you slow him down to a reasonable degree because you know He needs to be in like peak physical state because Obviously you would burn through everything like a motherfucker if you were going that fast But they just bring it up as a throwaway and it never comes back in a meaningful way And they never come up with any meaningful way to challenge him Like you look at flash's villains like they're specifically designed to counter his speed in a creative way While this is just like yeah a bunch of bug people a bunch of Warlords that don't really have anything that would make anything a challenge for a speedster And they don't have any limitations for his abilities that are Even introduced in any meaningful way. So he's just like I used to say garbage character in this Yeah, yes And what what joss tried to do with him In his cut is not good either because they're like, oh well He's just really nervous and he doesn't know what he's doing and he's scared And that's his sort of way of excusing all the things that he probably should do It's not good either. I didn't like it the first time I watched it But it is you look I don't know. I want to say marginally better. That's what you look back and you're like, oh Okay Right because if you had full control that's lame But if you don't have full control you need to justify why the flash isn't dominating you're like what if he's green What if he doesn't really you much fighting at all? He may have looked confident in that camera footage But let's just say that he pushed the guy over and that's all he knows how to do is push people Very it's very new to all of this He doesn't like to fight people and they show him get freaked out by The comment of step wolf makes about how he's like, why does everyone keep saying they have family? Like oh my god So, um, that's what I mean. They it's it's uh, it's not something that anyone really likes But um, can you actually make a criticism of it? That's more than that Daddy step and wolf You will love him You will love him We gotta see step and wolf's ass guys. That is an automatic superiority We didn't see the new step and wolf's ass. I was expecting it to be all spiny and spiky Um, yeah, and the thing is he does strip for dark side. So it was a missed opportunity Is uh step and wolf better worse or about the same in zack centers justice league Hmm I guess like there's a little bit more of a motivation for him than he has in justice I don't know that uh that we could say that that's necessarily true Because the motive difference. They're kind of just different. They're not necessarily better or worse or more detailed like in jossus he is a uh exiled Powerful entity and he's been waiting for his chance to regain it. He has to Unite these three boxes take over earth and at the same time rise to godhood Something that's what he wants in this one. He's uh, he wants to impress dad So he has to take the and you might be like, oh wow, that's not really fair what you just did I'm like, no, I'm conceding that they're like, I don't know which one's better out of those two But I can tell you which one's more entertaining and more fun to be around Someone in chat saying everyone's compelling me that someone in chat said in jossus. He is a giant mama's boy But he's a daddy's boy in this one. Yeah I don't understand. Why is that better? Yeah, and then well, it just seems very Transparent to me that is like, oh well, here's the villain from joss's version I'm gonna make him a minion to an even more evil and bigger villain But then you're just passing the buck because dark sides motivations and his actions are Also bad, you know, like he's just shifting it up a rung It's not really improving much of anything in my opinion. It's like a lateral move at best Well, I'm assuming we'd all agree that when you combo up stephen wolf in joss versus stephen wolf and dark side from snider That's where the snider one definitely loses because like everything to do with dark side is terrible And you have to actually account for the fact that stephen wolf forgot about the planet too Yeah, which is again a huge flaw that jossus doesn't have and I have to believe that joss was like Maybe we cut that And also how chadley was um jossus stephen wolf in the flashback. I mean that was a man right there He had to be dragged back onto his ship to concede defeat while sniders was just well sniders dark side Was just like oh, I'll just go I'm dying though See this is it's just the sort of thing where you realize that jossus league was a disaster because Joss was brought on at the 11th hour to work on a film that was going to be a complete disaster and I don't know man for for how bad, um Zach Sanders justice league turned out to be I have to say I I'm looking at justice league And I just have to say this was a valiant effort on his part So he's tried to hell a lot better The words that he added I mean, but uh, this is evidence of him trying to fix stuff and some of it I'm like, oh my god Oh my god, I have found the holy grail I'm terrified of what's happening What look at it It is spiny Spiny He doesn't have any buns. There's no crack See and this is another reason like jossus league stepham wolf. It's superior. He has a fine ass He does a fine fine rear end. It's quite picky. It just looks like skeletal from behind It's kind of gross Um, it's guys. It's not a meme. It's a it's a 3d rendering. It's yeah. All right. It's on screen now Look I want all of you to look at it. Don't make me those bonus fingers as well. It's just like Hey, hey, you know what? This step and wolf he can count to 14 with his hands. Okay unstoppable Yeah, gnarly, um Still, like I said, the main plot lines are in both of them awful The funny part is that joss we didn't seem that he added with the batman in the beginning of his the I don't even know why he did what he did the bug exploded and splattered three boxes on the wall. Like what what? What were you thinking with the lazy way of setting that up for sure um I don't even actually want to know how was it. I want to know how his mind got there as I mean Yeah, I guess it's just the only alternative like he could somehow come up with for a superman Let's have these giant sonic screams that uh, or super sonic screams that Awaken the mother boxes like he needs to find a different sort of inciting incidents For the mother boxes awakening or whatever. I suppose the problem you want to solve is Batman needs to find out that something is coming But the pro is see because for me it was like he could have just been assembling the team anyway Um, yeah, because in batman v superman he's like just a feeling Yeah, and so that's actually a part that joss fails out that snider doesn't um Snider had him assembling the team regardless of the threat that's coming Which is what he should be doing that joss had him only assembling the team once he knew a threat was coming for some reason Yeah, I agree with that for sure. Well, see that's just proof that that zack centers justice league is is better now So we're done There's one thing that it did bear that that means it's better That's something to bring up. Um I've definitely talked to me about this, but so We find out Uh in the opening, of course the boxes wake up and they call in steppenwolf and he jumps in through the little portal onto Themyscara And so that tells us as an audience We're like, oh So he can just jump to the boxes pretty op by the way and so it's just like damn. All right Side note imagine the first box he went to the first one that called in was silas is and so he just got that one for free Because nobody was defending it And then he got the next two with ease because they're barely defended too like the film fucking is over if he gets box first Um, but lucky for us. It was the amazonian one and so as like again visually as an audience member We can just be like so he's just going to teleport to the other two eventually That just seems to be how it works. There's just essentially on a timer Then the film is is like they kind of activate and call him At different times depending on different things I don't know what cool like like why these things happened But the film wanted to give us an explanation It was like only one of them called to him the other two have to either be woken up or or found And so the second one is because they smell and they have to track down the scent Well, yeah, so it joss's vision and well both versions. Yeah, that's like the they they generate a sort of aura that the the bugs can follow But uh zack is like no no no i'm gonna i'm gonna do something better than that. Okay, so He knows the atlantians have it and so he starts capturing atlantians and interrogating them And so we get the scene where willam defo basically tells uh aquaman that he's like Dude weird shit's happening. We've defended the mother box for like a billion years But now some of our gods are disappearing and the mother box is possibly like, you know weak That scene sets up Well three things i guess one he doesn't want to be king or whatever which we already knew To the people are getting taken and something is happening with them But you can infer interrogation obviously pretty easily from the scene we get later with the interrogating the people And then three that uh the mother box needs defending We went over how the stupid with the mother box him He just happens to go there just when mira's about to die and all that shit Imagine he turned up and everyone was just dead and it was gone to be like Damn um More importantly We are we're told that atlantians are getting kidnapped and interrogate right and then later on we're shown The the atlantians have pulled out and then thrown about And then he picks one up and he's like yo, where's the mother box? And the atlantians like i would never tell a disgusting creature such as you Get thrown And he's like i will die before revealing any such secrets that he puts a little bug on him that gets him Oh, i forgot about that No, yeah the interrogation spider It takes so long to do that scene and all it told us was what we got told by william defoe It's it's an and the scene makes itself redundant when if you had a machine that gets you the answers out of someone's fucking brain Why would you ask so many questions in the first place? Yeah, just throw that thing on his face Yeah, i was watching i was like, oh, we could have cut this whole fucking scene like why didn't we? Oh, there's a lot of that but also i find it really funny that he throws a meat cracks his head on the rock Blood is everywhere, but somehow he's still alive But then he puts the little mind reading spider on him and he believes that this guy even though he just had Major brain trauma There's reliable information He comes out all goopy and there's like an image of some four Chad like The thing and he's just like, i don't know. I was just browsing bad like why are you scouting through my brain? It's just for me It's just a dinosaur in world war two killing nazis or whatever like nothing excents like Hey, actually, I have a question. Um, this is another contradiction between this cut of justice league and And aquaman, right? Um, don't they establish an aquaman that only like royalty are able to uh breathe um Like out of water Oh, yeah, it fucks with aquaman. You um, you have to at least be mixed right mixed or royal Unless yeah aquaman's mixed and then mixing the races But these uh, these atlantician soldiers can just be dragged out of the water and uh, they're still breathing fine They fucked that up too. They fucked up a lot with aquaman. Even uh mirror's accent was from british to american So someone in the comments and i've seen this sentiment a couple times so far said you're bringing science into magic The movie does that this whole universe does that they have something magical like kryptonite with superman And they try to explain it where they show it under a microscope and they go Oh, it's destroying the cells or like the little spidery had didn't seem like magic that seemed like technology Right, I mean unless you're gonna do the arthasie clark quote But you know what i'm saying the movie tries to combine The science and the magic that tries to give a rational explanation for things and it always are Most often does a really awful job of that So it's not like we're trying to project logic onto something. That's just magic. Just go with it, man Repeat after me internal consistency will always be important Internal consistency does not care about the fact that it's not real What matters is that it is real within that universe and follows a set of rules Please do not use this argument again. You fuck Um, I don't understand the emotion in the snide cut is far more effective than the cynically made justice league I actually I have a question about the uh The thing with internal consistency and regretting um movie silencers. This was I know this is off topic But I was thinking about the other day, um, you know how movie silencers. They're always going like You know, they're they're very very quiet. Um, is that okay as long as it's internally consistent even though it's not realistic at all Well, I think that the criticism would be that we're led to believe that this is our world for all intents and purposes Yeah, that's that comes under the whole it has to be stated that it's a different technology or it's explained to be a new technology You can't rely on our understanding of guns and those particular makes and models And then go oh, but they don't work the way that you know them to work Like it's like the that's to me the train safety on spider-man 2. I brought it up this time. Look at that Hey, why do you guys keep bringing up spider-man 2 stop bringing up spider-man 2 go back to my bad last Jedi every podcast I apologize back I'll do something else subway station scene of john mc2 Who's a john mc2? john mc2 Um, john wick donald Yeah You know the whole uh, he's talked about hat and thing as well Because it's just as the images fly by on my screen of like joss made it so that um At the very least as much as he would be powerful by the end of the movie cyborg had to get there He was developing his suit was like Loopy flampy like he didn't know what was happening. He said he uh learned to fly like for overnight Because it's they're all developing and upgrading on their own sort of thing. He's a Mother boxing carnage doesn't know quite how to control it yet It's like to me that just seems like the most basic normal thing you would do instead of making him go from zero to one Just instant superpower Um, but if you're going to do that then the story would surely be about this overwhelming sense of knowledge and control Over everything like what do you do with that and the film actually explicitly states that that's the case and then does nothing with it crazy A little bit of a shame I can't believe he has a mind-rooting spider. That's uh Well, yeah In relation to the bloat because that's what I would use a Thinking for that when we were watching the steiner cut that It opens with the tower and it's panned up and we see sylas coming down with the two bugs holding him They drag him across the little bridge And then they take him up and over and down through the the grating to the all the other people are interrogating Drop him and I think we get a close shot of him just being like, oh my god This is terrible and then next scene. I think rags was like. Oh, well that was needed We couldn't have figured out that when they took him that they took him like what the fuck was the point it's um It's really fun to watch the movies And compare how much joss just chopped that didn't fucking matter at all like So many extended see one of my one of the fun comparisons is the uh, the shooting of the arrow of artemis um Joss cuts to oh, yeah Joss cuts to a lighting it and then firing it snider has this whole ceremony of ceremony Opening guys. You're in a rush. There is a world ending threat happening to speed in the law No, what do you think they have super speed? Do you think there's three people in the team that have super speed? You're crazy By the way, I just wanted to uh, could we say yeah the um, your your answer to the uh, um, hollywood silencers, uh, I think makes sense to me. Um, yeah, um How will we talk about uh Something that got me in a ton of shit on twitter recently go for it. Oh good god So superman has brought back to life in zack sniders justice league There's a point where uh, you know, it plays out mostly the same way in this as it did in jossus league There's a point where he um, he's about to kill the flash. He's about to like heat vision him to death And uh, there's like a couple of armed humvees that are close by you know military humvees and um, some national guard soldiers are shooting at superman with these turrets and uh, superman goes over and uses his heat vision on these two humvees and blows the two of them up so I think that it's reasonable to infer that the um, at least one of the gunners In the humvees is dead because we see him get off the humvee and he's standing literally right next to as it explodes And that's gonna fuck you up People tried to insist. No. No. We see him in the shot when batman arrives. He's like behind the first humvee No, it's not because uh, that guy has a A rifle slung around him and but the point is superman doesn't give a fuck after it Um, yeah, what you were describing whether or not a life was taken. That's more of a law Uh discussion That's not really my concern whether or not he should be punished under the law for x amount of time I'm more concerned with the character of superman Having laser to the point of he could easily have killed all those people and he wouldn't have given a fuck And he never talks about it and no one ever addresses it with him Yeah, exactly Yeah, when he wakes up with amnesia his his base state is evil instead of confused and scared or something You know what I mean? It's very strange You would think you'd be very you think he'd try to run away or something If there are people trying to shoot at him if he you know came back to life and wasn't sure what was going on Well, it's just uh, it's funny because you you've got um winter soldier You got bucky in the mcu and uh, he was brainwashed into doing the things that he did that were all bad And once he got his mind cleared up and everything now He's trying to atone for his sins that he did when he wasn't even like lucid He's just ashamed that it was his hands that shed blood, right? Meanwhile, you've got superman who um is kind of in a similar situation We can grant oh, he wasn't in his right mind, but I would still say that's um, that's not an excuse for him Basically just not giving a fuck afterwards About he almost killed people Yeah, and then he's back to normal like a scene later I that's just so garbage Yeah, and if you wanted like if your job was to try and repair it You have to like you need that scene where he's still zombie clock And then lois you have to the dialogue's gonna have to be so good This tough scene to write and as the scene goes on and he gets more and more of himself back He eventually starts to get really guilty suddenly and you're like wait one. He's like those people those soldiers Oh my god, and then like Lois is like you didn't know you couldn't have known Then and then and then he could like look up and be like I have to be better And you just like already tried your best to be like we have to recover we have to But I think uh with joss The he had to redo Exposition in the cornfield because the different plot line and you have to actually like bring it back. So like I don't know They had the time I guess I suppose you could have tried to cut something else out, but yeah, uh, hello free. How do you do? Oh, I've wringled Hello, my my alarm didn't go off Mine didn't either right? It's it's great technology worthless australians Yeah, sorry, uh, but yeah So what what what what I miss what what do we what are we talking about? Well, first we reveal we've revealed to chat that uh, we think the joss cut is superior And we've just been going through loads of scene comparisons. Yeah Um, they've not taken it as badly as I might have expected But a lot of people absolutely disagree and I I don't know you're wrong Okay guys, you're wrong You're wrong, all right I'm sorry that you built your personality around the release of this film But yeah, it's it's really it's really awful It's kind of surprising that a film that's twice as long as the theatrical cut Is somehow worse and not even like by a narrow margin like it's it's definitely worse What a what a strange journey it's been Like the dce you we got like this How many films that there are like eight or nine films and and they're all somewhere between two and three Like we're trying to distinguish between like a point one decimal place between each of these films except the one doesn't work It's fascinating. It's incredible. I saw someone in chat asking if this is the worst dce you film And I'm gonna just say no, I still think 84 is worse However, I will say as sort of a combination between entertainment value and craftsmanship. I would I would prefer to watch Wonder Woman 84. Um, I think I would this is the one I would least want to watch again. Yeah, like this is in terms of my entertainment value This is my least favorite Um, whereas justice league is my favorite Oh, yeah Like justice league, like I don't say this lightly. I don't say this like Casually, I could you gotta emphasize I gotta emphasize. I hate this universe. I hate everything about except for some of the casting choices um Justice league A lot of it. Thanks to the snider cut is slowly turning into this bizarre guilty pleasure for me because It's so endearing to see humanity in these characters again and it's fascinating to see where Joss Zagged where snider did a huge zig in the opposite direction and just trying to repair this mess. It is an absolutely um Captivating experience once you have that full context of how much he had to fix Okay, so now then I actually have to to um push back a little bit against you here member proctor. This is me playing devil's advocate. Okay so We're all about consistency here and not just about whether or not you you like things more And yes, we do like that these characters are are more likeable in justice in justice league But can't you make the argument that they are more consistent with how they're characterized in zack sniders justice league with Go ahead. All right. Go ahead and give me the fight reasoning. I'm not. I'm not sure It's not a fight. I'm I'm I'm literally I I literally am just asking a question. It's a prompt. It's a conversation prompt I'm not arguing this fucking point. I am not going to that Have we have we already talked about wonder woman in terms of our in terms of what what her deal is here We haven't done the lack of character. We actually haven't done the bank scene Wonder woman is kind of like the most significant way. Is that hold on uh, so wonder woman go for it Basically, I just go for it Wonder woman is the most significant character in the dceu. She's had like the most screen time, which is hilarious um But what what is what has her journey been so and as we as we learned in in her first story she uh got recruited to her the the first side that she encountered in world war one a very morally gray war and uh Gleefully killed a bunch of uh, german 18 year old german conscripts And then she realized that she believed in love and shot a laser through her brother And then we jump ahead a bit. Uh, she's been very active in the world and um What but the main thing that we see is it in 1984 she is going out of her way to not kill people I don't think she I don't think a single person dies in that film um Yeah, she she goes out of her way not to kill people And then we jump forward to just sleek where she bursts into a room filled with children And like a bunch of terrorists start shooting at her and she starts punching them so hard that their their skulls crack And like all of their bones break in front of these kids And she's so negligent that she punches one of these people towards the children And has to sloop over there to grab him and then throw him into the wall And then there's blood all over the wall. I was going to say it head first Slapping his brains on the wall Yeah, um, and it's it's kind of funny. She burst through the room. She burst through the room And like all of the debris flies towards them and then you know the the icing on the cake where she blasts the dude on the other side of the room and Josh Whedon was wise enough to cut cut away. Yes Cut away from the massive explosion that said tons of debris raining down on the police officers on the other side Now someone said I kind of like brutal wonder woman. Um, it you may like that That's cool with me But it's a little bit weird for this hero to blast debris onto a bunch of cops on the other side of the wall But no They canonize my joke. They canonize my joke. I was joking when I said they're all dead. God damn it Don't don't forget that they um Like all like the people inside are gonna be breathing in all kinds of particles and shit that won't be good for their lungs Well, so yeah, there's the that's this three So what Fringy said damage to the cops what you said damage to the children from the debris and three the property damage The unnecessary property damage to a public So unnecessary to use your strongest fucking move You terrorist guy, it's like what the fuck is in chat with a dick or something I don't know the fuck is in chat who are in the real world would be like Hey, what would blue open a bag or whatever. It's like that's chill. It was pretty cool. Um Remember 84 isn't canon to this movie. Um patty jenkins said that we all ignore justice league So it is canon says it's zack snider's just slig Yeah, I mean this movie. We have no reason to believe it isn't canon other than the fact that it doesn't make sense 84 isn't canon. Yes, it is stop lying to yourself Well, yeah, it's not sider works with patty jenkins for one woman 84 what patty jenkins said that It's also I was just gonna say quickly. It's not canon in the same way that rise of skywalker isn't canon It's like well it is i'm sorry. It is that's the problem It is like we wouldn't talk about it being so bad if it wasn't canon Also, I love the just the dissonance between Per brutally killing those guys and their the brain matter is splattered all over the walls and then the girl's like Can I be like you? And then she's like you can be whatever you want just like those terrorists were being whatever they wanted You know those terrorists those terrorists they were stronger united Ashtag That was the beginning of the yodeling There is no objective canon on a philosophical basis Look strict it's not a jesus christ Well, I mean it's I mean to be fair uh zack sniders justice league isn't canon to this universe. So, you know It's not guys But uh, if you want the universe to have more continuity you need to canonize joss and decanonize snider That's like the which is what our water brothers are already doing. They are moving on. They are god. They're flying away from this They got dr. Fate, which is really cool. They're doing all these other movies suicide squad actually looks pretty good They're just moving on They got starro. Um, so I'm I'll sum it up there in chat that I kind of like like just as a it's just thought it's not like a huge flurry But you know when she killed aries and he does it he does a big death scream and then the mother boxes activate and one Woman finds out You laugh but like it would make some sense. He's the one that nearly killed dark side Yeah, it'd make more sense than superman. Yeah, it would make more sense. That's what I reckon. Oh my good god Uh, it kind of seems to me like they're just throwing crap at the wall to see what what sticks because it's like they uh They all they just want each movie to exist in its own Separate canon and they're just trying to see okay, which one's gonna be a hit this time And then this will be the start of the new new dce you It's like Because uh, they tried green lantern and that failed and then man of steel and that that's a better than green lantern So it's like, okay, we'll we'll build off of this one But now it seems like they're trying to find a new movie to build off of Um and just erase everything else that came before it Yeah, there are there are shambles right now because you can't ignore the success of aquaman And so it's like well, of course, there'll be an aquaman too and it's like well, what if we reset in this universe? What how does that tie in? It's like I don't fucking care make aquaman too and you're like, oh Oh, everybody likes shazam. So I guess we should do that again. It's like, oh, we got like james gun That's probably gonna be really good. Well, that's the thing they've got They're probably gonna want to generate another justice league But alongside that the suicide squad second attempt is happening and if that's super successful I wonder if they need to focus on tying like we need to get them connected sort of thing Wow um from what I've read The flash movie is going to reset the dce you it's going to be like I think they're going to use that film as their excuse to keep the stuff they want and delete the stuff that they don't like um, that's uh Someone in chat saying stephen wolf slaughtering the amazons alone makes it better than joss version It's the same in both versions Uh, no, he slaughters them and in fact him polluter is more retarded because she fucking looks her own temple with the soldiers inside I was going to correct you there southpaw The amazonian queen as I hire kill count than stepham wolf in sniders version She's a fucking moron try to sleep with the blood of your sisters Trying to trap slash drown somewhat in a stoned cage that has a teleport ability. Good job You all the amazons jumping on stephen wolf with his spike armor Yeah, I will say they avoid the spikes One of the more enjoyable little moments in the snider cut for me was when stephen wolf grabbed the horse and threw it The way he picked it up was really goofy and he really did like that always me quite a bit. Yeah stephen wolf is a big ol goose factory I I wish you were more goofy because I just that's where I'd be like Joss this league just plays into the nonsense Why does everyone keep saying that We we were criticizing uh, how stupid the amazons security was like So what's your plan? Where are you planning on taking that mother box, right? And yeah watching that for the efat movies on uh, jossus league before we recorded our standard cut reaction And then we watched that scene is like guys. It's the same scene has the exact same issues I was I was quite surprised how many scenes were in both. Um The whole bank heist with wonder woman I was sure that was a Joss edition because it only really accomplishes that hey, she saves people and she's wonder woman doing wonder woman stuff But then it's the same scene except longer and worse I think that's kind of the thing you discover throughout the whole film. It's like fundamentally. It's the same film Like it hits a lot of the same beats except worse because Again joss was wise enough to cut out the dark side forgot the location of the anti-life equation Or the part where a superman tries to kill soldiers. Yep. Yeah, well um If you remember the closest they get to it is the laser deflects off of cyborg shield thing into police cars or something So it's like yeah, there's a there's a lesser connection there, but you could still argue that superman should have some Moment of like oh my goodness like that whole whatever i've done. Yeah, it was but at the same time um There's more of an effort in joss's cut to argue that superman was literally like not quite him And then he was him because he got his memories back while in the other one I think Yeah, um like it's coming back partially Like I said the pet cemetery line and uh bruce saying if you guys remember bruce says uh the world needs you and then it shows Superman's face like he like looks down. He's like oh shit Like like realizing who he is and what's happening. It's like. Oh my god. Just that alone He's like thank you for that one fucking look and you know what people say is like, but that's a jelly lip face You're like guys. I need you to focus I I miss jelly lip superman. I miss jelly lips for man. You know what? I love you Yeah, one reason I feel like people are definitely thinking this is better because so many of those Superficial like there's still problems, but those superficial things like the jelly lip And the color grading honestly, I think the color grading is worse in the Snyder cut. I'm going to say it I think there's like for example, I'll give you a quick example I got a high looks to get a fly off my screen Uh, first one is good. God. You guys can't be satisfied with anything. That's interesting Second one is I love how they spent the last hours defending a known pervert What guys this has nothing to do with joss weeden as a person. This is about the quality of his art Fucking separate the art from the artist. You guys really need to Now i'm not sure i'm not sure if anybody's done it uh here like in the chat But I am super disappointed in the fact that like there have been people who When there have been people just talking about the fact that they don't like the film That then throw in those people's faces that zack smart his daughter died Is really fucking concerning that people would so willingly be doing that Uh, yeah, well and of course just being like, why would you want to talk about any pluses in the film that was made by a pervert? You're like I didn't even I thought we were just talking about the stories. I don't know talking about the movie Yeah, we're we're not talking about like zack about joss weeden being such a good person It's like well, he tried to do a better job with this movie We're tried he tried to uh salvage something from this movie, which he did Yeah, and i'm gonna do the opposite now Like I I think zack snider like from what i've seen and from what how people seem to talk about him I can believe that zack snider is a nice guy. Great to have great to be around Yeah, you could grab a beer with him He makes awful art and I make that separation between the art and the artist when I talk about him just in the reverse direction So we have to be consistent with this guys. Come on Um, and yeah, I thought we all agreed on that though, right like art from the artist. Yeah No, I don't really I believe zero percent in death of the author The whole like you guys don't love anything thing always gets me because I'm just like First of all, it wouldn't even matter if that were true. It's just our arguments that matter And secondly, you really think like we got the bad taste vibe when we didn't like the snider cut like Jesus Christ The opening hour of this stream was shad yms And uh, well, I guess all of us just just going over basically like all of the ways it absolutely destroys itself Significantly and there was like six different ones Like most movies don't even have one of those or I say most Uh, you know screw that a lot of movies have them But like most movies that we talk about that we consider to be like a five or above They don't have a World and plot and just just universally story destroying element Nider cut has several of them Also, something can be a five out of ten on a consistency scale and still be really enjoyable Dude people out there are gushing over the snider cut and They enjoyed the shit out of it But then you had certain people who were like no, I didn't enjoy it But look, it's it's like the creative vision. All right, and that that that matters more than anything else I mean it's part of yeah It's what it's the job we're supposed to perform is to talk about how much sense these films made Uh when shoved against each other Like if chat wants to know how much we all liked it We've already said that uh, we thoroughly enjoyed Wonder Woman 84, but we also think it's the worst in the dcu Yeah, so It's funny like you've got this comment here where it's like have you seen Jurassic Park recently? It's pretty devoid of logic and has too many contrivances to work if you're watching it with a so-called objective lens The whole setup is rigged. Why would you ask paleontologists to give a seal of approval to your dino park? like that's a terrible question because If you have a dinosaur park, yeah, you would want paleontologists to approve your park Um, they have never seen the living dinosaurs. No one has so would you rather get a random Joe Schmoe off the street or a guy that's studied dinosaurs his whole life Um, they can't be authorized sources to decide whether the park is safe I don't remember if that's like why they were pulled in exactly The real seal of approval would be the security levels which have to keep dangerous creatures closed behind bars, blah, blah, blah Also, Hammond breaks the law by taking two people to an island full of dangerous animals But doesn't tell them what they're about to see weird house lawyer friend It didn't tell him that I'm just thinking like I don't know if that is actually illegal to do what Hammond did I think he basically told Grant and uh, Ellie Like this sort of the the circumstances, but he Left certain details up to be like a surprise And so I'm just I'm looking at this and it's like why are you? Bringing this up exactly because first off these arguments are terrible. Secondly So what if they were valid against Jurassic Park? Then I would go. Yeah Jurassic Park is not as well written as I thought it was If all of you guys said, oh, we're watching Jurassic Park Do you want to come and I'm like, oh, I can't make it today and then I come back the next day and you all go Jurassic Park is not good, dude. I'd be like, all right. Yeah, maybe maybe I uh, I haven't seen in a while I mean, I remember a lot about it that I think is good But it could be a faulty memory at this point or just not Quite as absorbed I'm more than willing to accept that any of the things that I've watched As late as like many years ago For a recent time or whatever that could could be much worse than I remember Or could be much better than I remember What's so fun? My favorite character in Jurassic Park is the hand that presses down on the raptor's tail when it's about to fall over When it enters the kitchen that's that guy MVP Um, I'll just see in the video on stream of superman lasering the fucking hubby I'm sorry that gunner that jumped off. He's dead. I am so sorry Absolutely Viable man. Batman just sneaks from behind the hubby like I'm in this scene now. Hello What? Um, do you remember there was a thought I can't remember if it was anyone here who said it It was one of the calls we were in it was like maybe batman didn't show up Uh, when he probably should have but basically like what the fuck is batman doing? Everyone arrives and he's just not here like cyborg didn't help him get here He did he seemed to take 10 years to get here. It's like what's going on Then there was this thought Maybe batman is staying away because he knows that he might trigger superman. It's like, oh, that's that's like an idea But then he just turns up anyway, so Doesn't really work Oh I'm guessing that it's already been mentioned right that the scene works a lot better in justice league because batman Got lowest lane there whereas the only reason lowest is here this time is because she was getting coffee nearby At the right moment in the morning Five minutes earlier or five minutes later. I guess superman would have just killed everyone There are many instances of that in this film where it's like if you were a minute later This whole film couldn't have happened. You would have lost mera. For example Yeah, mera would have had her head decapitate. She would have had her head chopped off And these things are major one second late. Yep Like the lowest turning up prevents possibly the entire justice league being executed and the end of the world Thank you. Lois. He had a strong effect. Nobody can stop him because he's so powerful Like they didn't even stand a chance Stupid fucking Hypergauntlets that alfred made from yesterday They just Oh, yeah Like I forgot about that Like in in the snider cut and sorry in the justice the justice league cut and bvs does alfred make tech for him Yeah, yeah, he he seems to have some interest in it. He we the first time we see alfred I think he's testing out the uh voice mod modifier No, I'm and I quite like the idea that alfred is engineering a lot of the the tech that batman uses It's a very active role. The problem I have of course is what an insanely useful piece of technology to have been invented so close in proximity to what it was Wow, and what did joss do he had superman hit bruce instead? also, um It did it really remind me of the uh the scene in mando where they reveal that um Mandalorian's armor a dinge jaren's armor, whatever can um deflect lightsabers Wow It's really handy. It seems a little um Unbelievable kind of that superman's heat vision. Uh, it doesn't just break through batman's gauntlets Oh, well, you see how far it does, but it doesn't for both of them Like one of them just holds on infinitely longer than the other one. It's weird Uh It's always like oh, so he's a he's a he's a butler and an incredible engineer. Okay. It's like Why why is that impossible? You could be both of those things Especially if you fucking you're looking after batman like I don't know Well, why I don't see why that because people saying like oh, he's comboing up alfred and lucius fox. It's like you could do that You could have them be the same why not Um, yeah, especially in a world we have so many other characters to take care of in one fucking movie or two. I guess you could say Actually one good line, which was this is alfred. I work for him That was I that gave me a tiny little giggle something Wait, when was that? Oh, that was like a joke they made when they first arrived in the back cave and they all meet alfred So bruce introduces him as I this is so this is alfred. I work for him So it's just a little little funny bantery moment, you know could have used more of those Um, but you know something aquaman described alfred as badass. I was like, hey There you go. We like stuff No, yeah, there we go. We balance the scales. Yeah now back to the one shitting on it Um One of cosmonauts criticisms of joss's cut uh that I just Applies to both of them is how long they take to actually start saving people in the uh the tower portion of the film Remember they arrive and they see people being interrogated. They don't do anything Um in joss's well, that's the thing you can say in joss's cut that flash is too scared to save everybody As much as you can I don't this is the complicated thing about this discussion that I'm not sure where I stand on this A lot of people complain about that like significantly. They're like, that's ridiculous. That's stupid. I hate that and I'm like um So that's who he is apparently and we have nothing to contradict it So what what like what's can we really complain that much about it? I don't know Um, and of course, we know it was joss's attempt to nerf The flash like I said, I don't like it either, but like I don't know that we go beyond that as a Christmas because um I think I can't remember which one of you was talking to about this, but like Superman, uh, sorry spider-man is really really op Um, and so yeah, you're gonna make a load of movies with him You're probably gonna want him a little like kind of shit in his first view So the lower level threats can actually have high stakes Um, and I don't mean shit in terms of he's got lower strength for no reason I just mean he's he's just not he's gonna fail in ways that a kid would they just don't know They're not street smart enough or they don't anticipate things the same way an adult does All that sort of thing and so making the flash a little skit because by the end of the film Flash is fucking knocking the shit out of the aliens. He's gotten over his is fear So it's up to the next writer to try and you know apply limits and stuff um But like yeah, the only argument I I'm assuming people are gonna be using is well That's not what flash should be and I should be like all right I don't I don't want to Did you all love how he just runs around the staircase giving moral support as the humans slowly Trudge their way up the town. Yeah, what a useful use of your powers. Good job flash high five I like that part where he grabs all the debris that's falling down And he sees another one falling down and instead of just grabbing it he screams no Like he doesn't grab any of the people as well Yeah, just doing anything I mean as we see at the end of the movie when there's an explosion everything slows down you can just rewind time Why would you never? You know, oh gotta break the rule. It's like what's the point of having that rule? You're always gonna do it when you need it. So it's not really a rule at all God guys, uh, if you're max announced wait, hold on. No, I'm sorry. That's uh, no, that's uh, that is uh, that is a fake That is a troll account. That is a troll Yeah Very briefly I did yes The the clue is uh, HBO map is not a real I like the idea that there's a hb or map and it's just like a map to hb or You know what though? Thank you. Thank you hbo map for trolling the Snyderverse Snyder fans, I thank you just give give them hope please Also, I think he means rule like a law of physics Why no he does not what do you mean? No no no no no no because obviously he Did it fine. He didn't have to break any laws of physics I mean, that's though. It's a personal rule. He has for some reason. I'm not really sure why well Yeah, I was gonna say that's still bad though, right? If he was saying it in reference to the idea like I shouldn't really rewind time just because You shouldn't really rewind time. I should be like that's not anything very You have to do better than that Like damn, you know because I think we brought this up earlier. It was just like uh, did barry ever tell any of them about this? Do you think? Like I rewound time and saved all of your lives by the way. I just saying No, no biggie. We can get me later It'd be it'd be really weird if he didn't I feel I feel like that It's it's really hard when we first watched this movie to try and organize your thoughts on it Oh, yeah, oh, yeah, like four hours of just pure concentrated agony Do you said that as it said part six something darker? That's one of the things to oh The the the film's aspect ratio was incredibly annoying and it's it's very obvious the scenes where it was shot in four by three Which are not many of them right now the scenes where oh, yeah, look at that head space. Look at that head space It's almost like the film wasn't shot to look like this Yeah But you could see more of the area above the characters you love and isn't that amazing We can look at the sky because that's more interesting because remember when I when I was like You can see it in The shots like with dark side and decide and any basically any CGI shots and the nightmare sequence Everything's framed correctly. Like there isn't all this empty space above everybody's heads But then when you look at like oh, oh, shit. Um, there's just empty space inside their heads. Um, yeah Like That's so good All right, there we go now. I'm better bring you three water empty space above their heads It's just really annoying And it's funny because the only reason this was done was because it's meant to be cool and edgy and like seven samurai It's the only reason he did this Well, I'm gonna give him a bit more credit than that. I think he just likes the shot That's like he decided that not at the beginning because you can find quotes of him when he was still attached to the project early on That he said he intended it to be 185 so 1.85 to 1 which is very very close to 16 by 9 It's like the little little tiny black bars on the top, right And then he decided later like ah, I kind of like, you know, the bigger square look So I'm just gonna do that Like it's not it's not pretentious. It's just it's it doesn't really add I'm gonna give him no no no no because there's nothing inherently pretentious about the shape of the screen No, no, no Hang on wait, wait, wait, you wouldn't argue that it's inherently pretentious You would argue it's it's pretentious in regard to society and culture which it is Yeah No, I don't think it's inherently pretentious to shoot your film in a box here Yeah, I don't think it's pretentious in the context of our culture to have a film In a four by three ratio. Are you sure about that? No, yeah, I don't think you were shot in a box Are you sure? No, I don't I don't think that's pretentious. I don't think that will release a Justices gray edition like So to clarify right it's not I wouldn't call it automatic Um, for example the one that everyone's going to bring up is lighthouse Lighthouse makes a really strong use of the square like it's the oh for sure So many of the shots are properly like framed Look at the film I imagine is much more of a consistent consumption with a square rather than a widescreen I was very impressed when I was watching it with so many of the shots where I was just like, oh Shit, they made that work really well with the the the limits they have sort of thing as well as adding to the claustrophobia of the whole like experience, however I see no fucking reason for Snyder cut to be a square at all Oh, I agree. Oh look all I'm saying is I don't think It inherently means as pretentious, you know implies That he thought it made this film more artsy or more intelligent than it actually is. It's just I think you might as well I I don't know because well when you watch this film the color correction is so Desaturated it just I get the vibe that this is just what he thinks looks cool Not that he thinks it makes it More intelligent or more high art than it would be otherwise. He just thinks it looks good This is the same guy who has all of the the like the deeper Biblical references as well as like other literature references then does like the Gods come from he is pretentious. Do not get me wrong I'm just saying from above Then I don't like his choose his choice is stupid and incompetent because a lot of the shots weren't framed to be that way I don't I don't know. I just I don't see all right So to clarify you think he made the decision because he thought it looked cool Rather than he thought it would make his film look more like it made by a clever person or a artsy person Yeah Yeah, I'm more willing to err on the side of uh, he was trying to make well So this was the thing I meant to say when we start this conversation I don't believe necessarily it's either those beyond I think he's desperately trying to move his movie away from weedens as much as possible to prove That it is an entirely different film Which how many oh, I agree with that how many people you guys seen say that where they're like, oh my god These films are like entirely different. It's like Yeah They're really not actually like if we're gonna be Because this is the thing in some ways they actually really are but then in the most significant meaningful ways like oh Well, no way. No, they are kind of just the same film though like Yes, it's so I agree with that. I think I think a lot of the decisions where he wanted to make it visually distinct from Justice so even though Even though the theatrical cut is in the ass is very very close to the aspect ratio He intended all along he decided to change it because he was like, oh, I you know I kind of like the square and I want it to be different 4 by 3 black and white 4 hours long to me All choices to push it as far away from weeden as possible Yeah Let's not forget how this looks for ultra wide monitor users Jesus Christ at the half the screens of black bars Oh, there's another there's another mistake. So this is a very specific thing But so if you watch the film on hbo max on any screen that's taller than 16 by 9 Like I have a macbook laptop that's 16 by 10, right? So it's slightly taller Now if you watch it on that it doesn't actually go to the top of the screen. Hold on. Just I have an image There you go It doesn't actually fill the entire screen Because whoever whatever file is being streamed on the platform is actually 16 by 9 with black bars on the sides Instead of just native 4 by 3. So it doesn't even fill the entire screen lull Like that's what it looked like when I watched it on my Oh, that's Yeah, it's an amateur mistake. It's something that amateur filmmakers is something I made with my first Short film I instead of cropping the actual video. I put black bars in the timeline And it's a rookie move. I don't know who did this or why it's very strange Disney plus is the same issue where if they have widescreen content It doesn't actually fill up the ultra wide like it's meant to it's just like turns into a little rectangle Oh Glip said full by three I max filmed in 35 millimeter not 70 millimeter idiot. He's an idiot Capital O is being wrong. Oh damn Wait, what about me? Uh, I'm not 100 clear. I think it's scrolled up too far now. Fucking hell. He says capital O is being rongo Yeah, for what? Tell me how I'm wrong everything I'm sure he'll post it again, and then I can read it out to you about I max is 65 millimeters. Usually I did not talk about the film format. I'm just saying What are you talking about? Yeah, he was saying that it's really weird to put that black bar in the video file Yeah, and that's what it is because otherwise it would fill up the entire screen It would go to the top of the screen. So we're just posing chris stuck, but likes it. Okay Um Chris duckman is not an authority. I'm sorry to say Chris alone. He liked rise of skywalk of vaguely. I think I'm saying while my mistake is that the file that's streamed on hbo max is actually 16 by nine It's not four by three or else it would fill the entire screen That's the amateur mistake. The point is that it should fill the entire It should fill to the top of the screen on whatever size screen it's on Yeah, the bars that uh cap is talking about at the top and bottom not left and right Yes Um, it it's like yeah reduced a little bit. It's uh amusing But maybe maybe glib is responding to that. I can't quite tell he said the movie was I don't know. It's it's not a big point. So I know it's retarded all right Um So, uh, yeah, then um the The parts of the film that I think that uh, you'd have to change if anyone was to make any cut of it is kind of just being like Shit, man Nobody's got any character in it Like cyborg's the one that gets a decent amount of scenes in focus Which by the way a lot of people keep referencing that as why Weedon's is absolutely the worst. I'm just sitting here like man Cyborg is so much better off without all those So many payoffs and development of the aspects and actions he could do that make him so frustrated as a person to watch And but he's not as powerful in Weedon's cut I mean some people will listen to that and just be like are you serious right now? It's like so I sucked a Manhattan. It's the whole uh You know, I'm a monster, but uh, I have to learn that not only am I not alone with my fat and my parents having died And not only am I not broken with having lost my body Uh, I am also going to do the right thing and and and potentially sacrifice myself to stop the unity It's like how could you not appreciate the shit out of that arcs like oh, it's all the connective pieces. They're all terrible unfortunately And we hear over at ifa bonia Uh, don't tend to celebrate an idea if it's all flimpy in execution We're usually like oh, yeah, and I can see what you were trying to do And um, yeah, it's it's been done a million times before and I'm not saying that's a bad thing I'm saying go for it if you want to do the whole Look discovering a new new lease on life frankenstein Trying to get his heart back in order blah blah blah I um We went over it earlier as well But like the other aspect I think is a problem is that they never really give us any reason to think That he would have a harsh existence. He seems to be relatively happy They didn't even do the obvious of him like having headaches Or um, he gets angry because he can't fucking deal with the amount of information that's passing through him at all times Like just anything Or random nose blood Yeah, you could always do that That's like I left a cheat code to show that somebody's not doing well It's pretty pretty good. It's it's what it's like a writing tool. It's just it's really solid Like um, I think I mean your brain is bleeding when you you know, you're watching a film That's gonna be sad or tragic and the character has a dog. You're like, oh no No, no But never a cat You don't see that as often Yeah, they don't typically kill cats. You're right Remember how one woman can't make tea Yeah, she's only had a hundred years to practice That is kind of strange actually I suppose you could argue It's just the fact that the british guy's gonna know how to do it better. I guess Like she seems to have She lives in the didn't oh wait. No, she lives in france or whatever wait. No She lives in the uk sometimes too She was in london in the beginning Well And recently been learning about tea. All right Ah, right. I guess you tea Do there are tea on themaskira. I feel like, you know, they would have like um, what else what else they drinking? Yeah Yeah Mountain dew It's kind of funny that everybody's meant to be presented. It's really nice, but I wouldn't want to live there Like there's no air conditioning. There's no heat. There's no electricity. I can't watch tv. I can't do anything except like feed cows and stuff You consumer Hey, yeah, I would rather consume than and plus that I mean the great that is for amazon suck like Oh, we're a supreme fighting force with bow and arrow and swords and Dude the german will war one germans killed them honestly Yeah, and and just imagine if it was world war two like soldiers Someone on that beach game over and now it's like 2020. I was gonna say a mom like mom just soldier going on to that beach with uh Just like, you know, he's standard sort of rifle and having cover Man, he's gonna take out a lot of them Exactly It's why it's funny that they're presented as though admittedly the atlantians proved even more incompetent like how how do you fail How how a steppenwolf better at moving through water than you guys that's like your thing and that's all you do Well, because steppenwolf need to breathe actually like well, how can he just exist under there without any He's holding his breath well, but he's but he roars, but he roars underwater Imagine steppenwolf like he can't jump out of the water until he sinks all the way to the bottom So he can propel himself up and so he's just slowly sinking and it's pretty deep And he's just waiting because he can breathe underwater or whatever. I guess and he's just like Come on He's like he beds his legs down. He's about to go. He's like every order at the same time. Okay, three Two oh, it's gonna surprise it. I swear to god three It's gonna be so funny So he's actually baiting mera into making the water bubbles just so he can breathe again so he can take another Yeah, she does it. He's like, oh no, you got me He like he just fucks everyone up in that scene and when he gets to her the person who actually affected him By the way, she knocked him down. So he's got more reasons to knock her out grabs it by the throat. He's like He says what does he say something like there's no use in fighting or something or the Can't escape. I think he says some some some generic villain line here Yeah, or your soul will be mine It's standard your soul is mine. I will eat your family and you're like, oh Yeah, I like that line too. There's a whole book of them Someone you can rely on for these course pieces of dialogue is the the villain in ant-man. He's uh, I forget his name. Yeah Yellow jacket. I will destroy everything you love You're insulting to me Scott He's got some of the funny shit dialogue at the MCU And he has actually more of an excuse than the step in wolf does because at least his brain is going gloopy Like it's not much but it's like it's more than step and wolf's genericness because he's just evil for no reason Well step and wolf is one of them like we don't He he talks to decide and decides like you got to get 50 000 more worlds, which is I I don't think the film realizes how many planets That's half of all the planets that dark side has ever conquered that's going to take him like thousand years He's your mistake green. Okay. It's special. It had defenders Remember the big thing that destroyed dark side in his whole army was that the planet he attacked actually tried to stop him They were like, hey, don't as opposed to all the other planets. They just did well There was just uh, if you guys played Dyson Sphere program. They're mostly empty. Nobody on these planets So you land a step in wolf and you're like, oh, it's some other boxes and they're like, we're over here, man Nobody's here. I don't know. Yeah, it's not that interesting For a bit. All right unity it detonates the whole planet changes and then decide is like did you did you do it? And he's like, yeah, did it he's like, all right scratch one One Yeah, and I imagine just Devin Wolf's life has been boring as fuck and he's just been like, oh What am I ever remember he was up more than 50 000 because that's how many has left So he's probably like a hundred and then he got all the way down to 50 then he comes to this planet And he's like what the fuck there's all these like fish people And we met evil people. Oh, suddenly a horrible super person lasering my horns off. Oh my god. This is like this Docs I'd help please remember. He keeps his special cream inside those horns too. Oh no special red special cream That's what my hands they get so dry all the time Yeah, to be fair most planets are empty. I'm not joking like This is he could have conquered like all the other planets in the solar system and And the moons as well because we have moons that would be planets if they were not orbiting around another planet So he could those would be worlds. He could he I guess I'm curious like what is what exactly is the objective in just turning planets to dust Like why are they doing that? Very good question. Why would you not? But power demons are not going to be on the empty planets power up demons Mola do you like any movie Batman and Robin fucking epic? Yeah, we love Batman and Robin here Yeah, why do people keep saying that do you like anything? Do you not like anything or is that? Oh, people don't You're allowed to like everything. That's cool. If you don't like everything you're a bad person Guys like half of my like most of my favorite stories If I were to break them down probably aren't that well written We make a distinction here between the quality of writing and how much we how much enjoyment we get out of them Those are two separate conversations Well netto trilogy fucking hell. Yes Uh, uh-huh. Fantastic. Yes That is some good There's no need for us to like list all of our favorite things. It's like this is why we always fight it bizarre Because from their pov it's like you really do hate everything from our pov We're like we're in this because of how much we love storytelling and loads of movies. So we're like, wait, what? Uh, for instance, we love the Snyder curd Wait a minute getting pushed back on that. Oh, no You you you have made a powerful enemy today. I will find you I'm gonna do it you bitch I uh Well, that was what I was gonna say by the way as much as that man on the wasp villain Uh, we bit over this before his his dialogue is terrible people justify by saying the yellow jacket Goop makes you kind of nuts. It fucks with your brain. And that's why he was saying those those tis me things um Meanwhile The the villains in the dcu say the same stuff, but they don't have brain tisms I mean Well, you say this shit like that so Yeah, we all assume they have to have a brain. My my favorite is when they're like What do you mean? It doesn't make sense for uh, zod to like kill everybody on the planet He's a soldier without a wall. He's got to kill someone Oh my what do you think war is a fought for friend? What do you think they thought to kill? So Yeah, could happen any day like tomorrow governance like man, we want to just fucking kill people just fucking do war Let's do it. Let's go Do war do war Let's do war fellas call arby boy number three on shortcut seven Tell them do war mr. Freeze from batman and robin is a bigger threat than stepham wall true Yep, dude. I would love superman to be like i'm a big fan of justice and then mr. Freeze goes cool Justice you served cold Dice age Oh what a legend we need him back We need to see we need a batman and robin sequel as a solo He could show up in batman's movie It's a freeze was behind it all if if joffin made a deal to like have Another flash sequence where he just fucks with the multiverse and he brings in arney mr. Freeze like that Oh, and he joins them. He's like no, I had my whole awkward robin. I'm a good man. I'm gonna join you guys So what's your power? It's like I shoot things and they make me like they die Like it's my whole thing but with coldness. It's pretty fucked up actually Well in batman and robin they survive they have to be thawed out in 11 minutes I think is the uh, yes, is that based on anything in real life? Like can you be frozen for an amount of time and live? No, I was gonna say I feel like I feel like that's just a future robber thing Because the issue is like if ice crystals will form in your cells and those are gonna tear your that's gonna tear You apart on a um microscopic level. That's how um like rocks and metal and different things can get torn apart Right when you freeze water, it's like it becomes bigger and so it fuck it can like break things open and stuff Yeah Balls of water you freeze them and then the tops can pop off and you're just like oh shit Yeah, it's why flash freezing meat is much better for it than like slow freezing it because the ice crystals will not have The same amount of time to form and thus they will not like just completely turn it to shreds. Um Fun fact Why when you make your sci-fi shit you have to call it, you know Omni freeze like what's that? Yeah, it just means you can get frozen and then not die Sweet yeah hyper sleep Yeah quantum freeze Anti-free you guys remember when Superman was like a split second away from executing the flash and a Fucking brave soldier put his life on the line to prevent Superman from executing a superhero Yeah, what a legend. Yeah, man. If I was the flash, I'd be like, thank you so fucking much I don't even know who you are, but oh my god. You saved me and that soldier was probably like all in a day's work Buddy with one of his arms lays it off Hey, listen, they don't show they don't show his body that means that he's fine No, the the camera like his hands so that you just can't see the arm nub It's just to the side As we learned right those those three buildings that superman crashed that ship into were probably empty We didn't see anybody at him. So Oh, we needed that. Yeah, like uh, when it was like zoom, I didn't you like laser those guys and he's like Those guys were probably holographic What they're probably a figment of my imagination, you know, I was pretty delirious I just woke up like, uh, you know, I don't know what's real He's going to take the bbs. I would like the dceu to be a fever dream in canon. That would be nice You go to like Batman just wakes up What are we doing? What are we done? Our superman comes in is everything all right bruce. We got it. We got to take bbs the next level You know those awkward lines. They just go it's no population in this area Whatever Batman is looking at all like the flash and corpse of different soldiers While several of them are crying and screaming and he's like oh my god And then he looks at superman superman looks at him and just goes uh, there's no population in this area What those bodies were abandoned This this place is abandoned. There's no life. I can see that there's people here bad. He's like there's no one here There's no one here. It's all it's all an illusion and then he just like I don't know gets a stack of cards And does weird tricks with them. See this isn't reality Nothing that you're seeing is real I think oh my god the world's about to explode ring ring and government goes. It's okay. It's abandoned It's okay. It's barely habitable Somebody just typed out zaks not as justice league greater greater greater than end game. It's not that it's not that transparent I'm not sure when I put above the other yesterday. So I don't know yet I don't know they both fuck with times. It's kind of hard to pick the loser, you know Yeah, I mean I would much rather watch end game than watch sacks night as justice league I get a lot of I get a lot of subjective joy from end game even when I think even though when I think about it I get a massive headache about how it doesn't make sense. Snyder. He doesn't have anything going for him fucking I'm a big fan of justice gives me more joy than anything that zaks nighter has excreted onto the screen with these characters I'm a big fan of Yeah Fortnight, yeah, I know I know that's that's categorized in cringe though Like Thor playing fortnight isn't actually like this is the thing if I was to break down end game I I don't know that I can I that that section would just be strictly like Oh god, this was just horrible to fucking watch But I don't know I can't say anything beyond that and I don't know if I can count that as criticism at that point Like is it out of character for Thor to be playing a video game? It was like, I don't think so I don't know I just wish he never did because again Watching end game like 10 years from now whatever you'd be like. Oh my god. Remember fortnight. Ew I mean it was you in the cinema. I remember being like Oh, why did you do that? Yeah And just like when hulk was saying dab. It's like, oh my god Stop it. Hey jay defends that dab actually Alpha witch That dab is not no, I don't That movie's not that funny. Jay will fight you aren't much springy versus jay the dawn of dabbing Don't dabbing There is a lot wrong with end game like make no mistake. Like I said, I really watched it yesterday Lot was wrong with it. Well, maybe maybe that will make people feel better that the ones who are listening to us like Oh god, like Marvel shows like no end game is awful. Okay Awful, um, but I would much rather watch end game because like end game does have characters in fun moments It's not really fair to compare them in that sense because to have characters is a big benefit to a story I think I think so. He doesn't have Do you like how Superman only has five lines in the Snyder cut? Or well, not literally filing but it feels like Like the amount of dialogue he had is so minimum. Yeah Actually, some of the reviews I watched that were very positive about the Snyder cut Would have the criticism sort of section and many of them mentioned like what the fuck Where was Superman in this movie? Like he was marketed like yes, he was Yeah Is less in this than in Justice League and of course you could be like well I hate him in Justice League because he was too wholesome. I'd be like, all right Oh, I'm okay. I I like the part where they 80 yard in the line. Hey, is this guy giving you any problems? Boom go Superman. Yes Save the building And actually earning his reputation as a great hero. That's a really nice guy That's that's just we can't have that. Oh look the scene on screen right now Batman was hurt when he was punched by Superman What are the odds of that? Oh my goodness Yeah, this I think this is the the best addition from Joss as far as I'm concerned this scene Um, oh definitely does a whole bunch for Wonder Woman and Batman. In fact, it turns Wonder Woman from nothing to something and it turns Batman from Uh thin to thicker but not like amazing because Batman in Snyder Cut is I would like to make a team Because that's what Clark would have wanted and that's what we should do as superheroes and at the end he goes I did it Yeah, it's not really good for anything In this one He admits to the idea that he's willing to take it so far that he would be willing to die for Superman to come back Like that's how much he believes he's good for the world. It's like, oh damn. That's quite some progress since uh bvs And there's plenty to show in terms of events that would make him think that Um, I imagine if it was all written well from the start Then oh you that's what we all get very sad about. Um those clips that you uh, you threw in meme for the Default movies just Batman and Superman talking about each other with respect for the things that they do. It's like Man, would that be neat? That would be neat We're very cringe put it away No cringe stop That was my best friend and you just killed him. Oh fuck you Lex Luthor But we're never gonna get that now Yep, you guys remember Yeah, when aquaman in Joss's vision is smashing the ball and it's like And you and you sort of sitting there like Man, all right, you know, and you might even smack because you're like, what the fuck that you go to to Sniders and it's like Some weird indie songs Doesn't match at all. It was like two minutes to get him into the water It seems like the music cues all around were pretty shit in the Snyder cut Yeah, it's a case of uh, whether or not the songs themselves are any good They are used in places that are so fucking disjointed. It's like, what the hell Um, I don't know. Yeah, I kind of like the yodeling Well, this is yeah, that's insane man. It's a pattern. It's not a point There's loads of soundtrack choices that are fucking bizarre Well, like the techno music and flashes introduction the heavy metal that just is supposed to be the team coming together But we didn't really get that motif anywhere else in the film Well, what is happening with that soundtrack? That's again a problem thematically by the way What you just said about like why is everybody a part of this team? It's like wonder woman Do the right thing batman Do the right thing superman Do the right thing cyborg Um, do the right thing. I guess the flash you wanted to have friends An aquaman, I guess, uh, he was told to by willem de faul Which is amusing right because the Avengers see you see avengers was wise to have the team sort of fracture in the middle of the film And they come back together at the end. It's a really good way to just have that payoff Yeah, and and loki's villain role in that film was to Steal the resentment. He wants them to break apart to be less bonded and that like realizing that and then fury Using colson's death to be like, oh man, colson, uh, you you collect trading cards of cap You like you're a hero to him and stuff It's all this invigorating stuff and then obviously iron man regularly showing he doesn't care about colson He wants him to go away, but when he's dead, he's like furious And it's because that's tony. That's that's his whole thing doesn't show his emotions typically, but he'll uh, He'll definitely feel him and so it's like Don't i'm i'm pretty sure iron man just fucks off. He's like i'm gonna go get my better suit And uh caps already finding a way to get to new york without like being sanctioned and isn't fury just like yep It worked. They're all going yep Avengers is Phil colson Avengers is a good movie and it's upsetting to me that people are just Disregarding that fact because they want a shit on joss weeden now I'll tell you what man It felt weird for a moment there that I was like citing like why events take place based on character actions that have histories like whoa Yeah, like you look at the scene where they go to the tower And when they're first doing something kind of as a group and you're like why though And it's like well, they kind of just like bruce found them was just kind of like let's just go It's like yeah, I guess It's not like they wanted that avengers money But they completely missed the fundamental point about why avengers was so successful And that is like you have individual fan bases for a meet to these universes and you allowed these Um characters to grow um in their own right and then you get to put them in a blender together And see what happens when these fully developed characters bounce off of each other No one in this film is developed before this film and they're not really developed in the film either So you don't get it either way Yeah, we we don't we don't have any conflict We don't have any meaningful conflict in this film because none of these characters are very different from one another Which is funny because they tried to inject conflict into justice league Between like aquaman and cyborg and stuff and and they tried but it's hard to When there's so little time Yeah To fix it and when the characters coming in are already so flat Whereas like iron man was suit was already pretty well developed by that point captain america was like a pretty clear Well, oh Movies are object. We go to bad yet yet loves the writing and attack of the clones That's not true Didn't I shit all over the back of the club? You do You did Saber dot man I feel like I have a memory of me shitting on it and attacking it with someone on the stream defending it No, you love it moller. You love the attack of the clones. You think that that's a great well written movie Okay, like guys again like the like slash dislike is not the same as good slash bad We make this distinction all the time. What is so hard to understand about this? I think what's happening is what's happening on the boy's stream. We've got new people in here Sometimes I completely fucking forget that there is the possibility of someone surfing the internet and I would have thought we wouldn't have that many new people because they get put off straight away They'd be like, wait, you think the joss cuts, but fuck you guys I'm sorry Like we love batwoman here. We don't think it's very well written Yeah, bat. Batwoman is swell and batman or robin moller likes batwoman, but also says the bad No, it's fucking masterpiece. How dare you? That's what we should all strive to be This is something as good as batwoman We've said before Both ryan wilder and cate cane are further characterized than captain marvel and ray Um, they're both just really awful people. That's the problem Uh, yeah, that that'll that'll do it, you know, just have them be terrible people Yeah, of course the problems But um, we never really got a blurb from uh from ufring We've had everybody deliver this sort of like overall Thoughts of the situation and then the quality of snider cut and then compared to weeden So if you want to do a little speech on her uh So what so just the the broad summary of this film. Yeah Okay, all right This film frustrates me so much everything about it. I hate There's so much that I find annoying about the film itself and also the context in which it was made um, but fundamentally What exactly is zack son is just asleep? It's honestly It's so clot. I don't like to say that there is such a thing. It's a bad idea But like god damn, I don't know why you would do this Why you would want to make like a justice league film where all of the characters are flat and miserable And everything is awful and there's no optimism and there's no hope or anything like that at all It's just a really sad dower miserable experience It's a little annoying that for some reason with this film Everybody has totally disregarded the arguments that they made for like mcu spider-man sucks He's not like the comics meanwhile batman's nothing like he's supposed to be and superman's nothing like he's supposed to be And nobody really cares because it's you know, this is like a new direction. This is a new vision This is a new take on the characters and you know what that's fine. That's totally fine That's okay. You can do a different vision for your batman and your superman. It's fine. It's totally fine It's shit. That's the big problem with this fucking movie It's awful four hours and it's what You know before we started this dce uark. I never knew I never thought that we would be coming out Saying that like justice league is the best one And that this is actually worse at the beginning I just assumed that it was a foregone conclusion that this film would be better, but it's worse and you know Uh, maybe maybe the moral of uh, zaks night as justice league is you got to find the silver lining You got you got to find like the little You got to find the good in the bad and the good that I found in this is that I can't trust any of my Perspectives on films before I watch them because god damn you watch your movie You don't watch it for a couple years and then you come back And then you find out that it's awful and way worse than you ever could have imagined What a fun. I I hope that there are no more films in this universe. I want them to just move on I don't want dark side coming back. I don't want the nightmare sequence. I don't want this I want to just move on move on reset do it all over again, which they're not going to do But hey like I would still take if they just do whatever it looks like they're going to do now Where they just like move on and try and reset and forget it. That's what I want. I don't want any more of this I hate it personally I really don't like that we have A batman who kills people and as an asshole and a superman who isn't optimistic and hopeful Um Well, I say that but it's like you think about all the missed but oh, yeah I think I think that's um, what's the most disappointing thing about uh, this film we have This was the first chance that they had to do a live action justice film and um You blew it. You had it all and you blew it. That's how I feel about it. Oh, yeah, it's just you You can't do it again. Like you can't get the this again this opportunity. It's gone And you look at it and you think like man endgame is really bad But like isn't it cool that we at least got this You know that we got this this spectacle or this like moment of having all these things happen and we're never gonna get it now with uh DC we're never gonna have like all of these characters coming together to fight a big bad. It's done. Um, That's super disappointing. But uh, you know I I guess uh I don't and I don't know how much I care about the whole idea of like well fans like made this happen It's like, oh I wish it was a better film I wish it was a better film Don't we all Yeah, um It's it's really bad. That's that's all i'm trying to say Yeah, and the thing is if they had so much less to prove than marvel as well like this is like this should have been a slam dunk Yep, you had everything you didn't have to make your cinematic universe without spider-man or without the x-men or without fantastic for You didn't you didn't you had everything you had everything that you needed um, and you had the fact that you you've already been shown a formula that You can follow and get decent results and you can soak up the audience Yep. Yeah, absolutely. You you know the mistakes that they made and you can do it better If I ask my dad has he seen the movie where aquaman and iron man fuck up, you know, uh homelander He'd be like, i'm not sure Yeah, as opposed to wait, what are you talking about? Yeah, just because it's just like a lot of the Normal people I could see plenty of people watching just like him being like his iron man in this one And you're like, no, I honestly think the reason why ackman was so successful is because people thought it was a marvel movie I mean, I've never really truly understood how aquaman did what it did Ah, yeah, yeah That movie's hilarious though, uh, efat movies for that when the dc arc slows the fuck down because Holy shit It's a weird sort of climax, isn't it because like The whole reason we started the dc august because I was like, oh, let's start a couple come out wouldn't it be fun to not only talk about all the dc films like Extensively, but to to see how they rank with how we tend to sort of place films these days Compare it to the mcu compare it to each of the individual films as they come out And the fun fun bonus. I think as as we started I was like rags has seemed like none of them So it was like, which by the way for those who are like always rags, uh, we're likely going to do A meme fab next week will come out Um, because everyone's going to be doing the easter stuff and then the week after that We may very well have another snider cut stream But we're going to check out some people's reviews and rags will be back and he will be able to tell you What he thinks and I'm pretty sure rags Would be a lot more curt about how Snider cut is really bad even more so than fringy. I think so that's probably what you think Good lord Hey Female relatives of mine went to see Aquaman from a mowa only wow never seen a DC film I just didn't realize that was You know such a thing Like I get that it's a thing but that much of a thing Hey, Jason mamo was in it. Wouldn't that be nice to watch this film? Yeah, I didn't know that either Um, I wonder if he's getting a big old pack I I wonder how many people like man amber herds in this one. I really got to see it Well, they're filming uh Aquaman 2 now, right? This year. Yeah, there was a there was someone that tried to compare us covering the snider cut to Johnny Sorry amber herd covering A movie like with Johnny Depp in it. It's like I'm like so here's the thing You're like you are referencing amber herd in a negative light, but um, zack center is the one that just gave amber herd more work How's that? How does that make you feel? Me certainly put her in more of a film. I don't know if all of that was record. Oh, no, wait No, he because the the nightmare stuff was new so She didn't have to be in the nightmare sequence True and even if you desperately for the sake of continuity had to show it because she's there in the you know The actual you could have just had it. She wasn't in that particular scene. She was she was really far back She was picking up some stuff off the floor. Okay Don't need to see her Yeah, he popped her in I've not seen many people talk about that at all Despite the fact that it's kind of weird, isn't it right when Aquaman 2 comes out people are going to just start shitting on it again Because they'll probably boycott it I'd imagine a lot of people you're not going to boycott this because again you cultivated your personality around it So it'd be real awkward to You know, it'd be real awkward to abandon this one. Hey, look, all right. I don't know. It's just kind of amusing That's all that it's just sort of forgotten about That's When did we decide that Zach Snyder was this visionary filmmaker if the world makes made sense a few years ago? We were shitting on him and rightfully so Why are we demanding this? You know the um the room Analogy I make not the room the movie the room is in there's a big room with everybody in it Who talks about the thing and everybody who fucking hated it left the room because they don't care While people who love it stay. Yep. I think as this drummed up more and more Sort of just just I don't know Surrounding controversy slash discussion more and more people were walking back into that room But one by one and they were met with a room filled with people saying it's amazing And so you kind of just sort of go, um, hmm You know, I guess I'm kind of feeling it. Yeah, I'm kind of feeling it honestly and uh You know, when you get told this is a guy who got extra years the 70 million extra monies Filmed new things to like strengthen it got to have his own vision back and then you watch it I think If you have your phone And you look at it when you get bored and then you look back when the story happens You might be convinced of yeah, you know what this is working out. This is I'm thinking this film is pretty good actually And then the reverse happens with jossus league whenever anyone mentions it. It's like And by the way rightfully so but that should be applicable to Snyder too So I don't understand what the fuck happened it's it's like, um A collective sort of just like it is good though, isn't it? And you're like, I don't know let's talk about all of the story beats and how the all of them are broken It's like, yeah, but I liked it. You're like, oh, it's longer. So it's gonna be better, right? It's like, well, I thought that too, but then I saw it Well, it's what we said There's a narrative that like, oh, there's the artist and then there's the studio and the people financing it That are always against them that narrative is really strong for people And I would like for someone to or like for those people to come to the realization eventually that you know The artist can be wrong and their vision can be stupid Well, this reminds me very much of uh, I think I think bioware is the best example of this A lot of people like oh ea sucks. It's bioware and then the more you learn the more you're like Oh bioware has been making some really bad decisions as a company Because of course, it's not always the full like, you know, it's it's funny, right? Just put yourself in the position of the financier for i.e. you know a game like anthem where it's like Okay, you've had seven years and like a hundred million dollars. What do you have to show for it? Well, you know, we've got like a little flag demo and uh, we got some like early proofs It's like no, no, no, you got it. All right. You got to release it We got to like pull the trigger on this that's kind of the same here, right? You've you've made these films people are not responding well to them and so it's twofold Not only people not responding well to them, but they're also performing poorly at the box office Something's got to give if you want to keep making like these films and is and also to be charitable to them Are we going to seriously suggest that nobody who is like a studio exec or a producer has any opinion on film at all? Like they don't even realize that there's nothing in their head that says there's something wrong with this film Like actually I just can't put my finger on it one of the things yms had sort of in the beginning was one of the talks he really wanted to talk about was uh the concept of creative vision and he was like We know the zack filmed a green lantern scene and he was forced to remove it from the snider cut And so therefore the snider cut is not his vision Like definitionally And so he's like so when is it oak with the line? How does that work? And then of course Why don't we apply that for joss right because creative vision seems to only apply when you come from scratch Rather than taking someone else's thing and making it your own Apparently you're not allowed to do that and have a creative vision And then why can't three people making something have a creative vision together and then one person Uh also have that and you might be like well, they can it's like okay. What about five? What about 10 then it's like what if 15 board members decided? Hey, I think superman should say I'm coming to save you guys because you're my friends Yeah, you know that's all shit and then one guy goes no he should say piss You're just like oh, that's I don't even know what that is Is the you get to the point we are like wait, so What are we valuing now and creative vision to me just seems like a a weird smoke screen Where it's like the focus should probably be on Uh hoping for good right because there was a narrative for ages that it should be the writer director gets full control And then we had ryan johnson fucked that up and so we're like all right We're gonna have to we're gonna have to think about this again now. What do we actually want? We want good writing. That's what we want when you find out the movie you think is really well written Had like 17 writers on it. Does that mean it's bad now? It's it's more just be surprising. Yeah And that's the thing I completely agree And I if someone was like do you want to watch a sequel? Let's say spider-man uh no way home. Is this what it's called, right? Uh, yeah, if you said either it can be written by two people or 17 people I'd be like I'd two please But uh, you know if it turned out in those two universes the 17 writers one was actually really good Because you had like three mains and then four people working on like all the dialogue Every day with the main beats and the rest of them just doing touch-ups and focusing on will building or something It's like, oh, wow. I don't know. Maybe they're a really good team Yeah So, uh, that's the way whoever vetoed the green lantern scene with john stewart as snider's cut. Thank you Gg well played Yeah, uh, and that's not to say though that it wasn't neat that he got his chance to make this movie and like a Creative freedom says but at the same time. I just don't see why this wouldn't apply to everything Why didn't we say this about ryan johnson's the last Jedi it was his vision That's right. What's his vision? You just didn't like it and people hate what they don't understand Oh, no It's really it's Hey, yeah, it's it's fun when people say that to you is that you don't understand that it's really fun Isn't that a great way to have conversations about films being told that you didn't get it? Oh my god So they've just defeated steppenwolf in jossus league for the second time And uh in sniders, we've just started the nightmare sequence and i'm curious which one reaches the credits first Not that this is a fair thing. I don't even know where I started them both, but i'm just amused by We're still doing establishing shots for the nightmare sequence Come on little buddy. You can do it Run jossus league run I'm pretty sure jossus league's gonna win because you get that whole fucking chat with the joker about jerking him off or whatever so yeah Dude when I saw people saying like that was the fucking best conversation seeing batman and joker have is like, okay Whoa I come down That is embarrassing. All right, you should I just notice Hold on so in jossus league does um does the ship that batman was flying into the dome thing come back in jossus league at like once they save the day Does it show up again? Well, I couldn't you couldn't you argue it's alfred sending a second one in or whatever What oh wait no you couldn't right because they're special it's like one ship one Yeah, they don't they don't foreshadow. Yeah, we've we've been working on two of these things Yeah, because he crashes the ship in both cuts But does it does it come back in jossus? No, no it doesn't Oh, that's sad Is that the same ship or is that a different ship? It's the same ship The big like bat carrier thing right? Yeah, because that that well you're right that was destroyed as far as I knew It was so it stays destroyed in in jossus league, but it inexplicably comes back in the sider cut Well, I just remember you guys have to understand. All right, there's a lot wrong with this from no I'd like to imagine joss weeden doing all the reshoots especially for that ending in just screaming off camera Smile smile. Damn you smile more More Joss why are you such a mean man like I'm just trying to get happiness Um, well, like I said, I actually have to go within like a couple minutes now So I figure what makes most sense is for everybody to say what they're up to and what they're doing And then we'll probably end the stream around this so We go left to right right to left. I don't know Um, sure Fuck it left to right go cap do it Hello, I'm still working on review of devs. It's an awful show. It's really fun to talk about how awful it is and um Yeah, more videos to come. Maybe uh, maybe a snyder cut video. Who knows? We'll find out You and I will find out at the same time. Anyway, uh, yeah, you can check out the channel. There's some good stuff there That's all I got. Thanks for having me Absolutely, and um, I was gonna do links for everything everyone's gonna be talking about in descriptions already all there click away Copy paste. It's all wonderful. Bring you. What are you up to? What have you done recently? What did you release recently? So the crash video is finally done. It's been out for about a week. The response has been very heartwarming. Thank you all for the kind words and After a little bit of time thinking about what the next video will be you might have remembered a few minutes ago I mentioned that I've rewatched uh Avengers Endgame um Yeah, that movie is not good. Um So, uh, it's very bad. I think I think it might be worthwhile. So I have a little wee chat about uh Avengers Endgame So, uh, yeah, uh, you you'll see that in like four months. Um, but in the meantime I'm working on the free comic the first page is up I think it's up on the patreon and uh, but but yeah It'll be like probably a month away and then we'll start getting released weekly once I've got more pages done Uh, and then streams, but otherwise. Yeah, that's that's what I've been working on Uh Metal what are you doing? That's me. I'm here doing efap. Uh, no, uh, I started by work makeup on the journal week two video Uh, I finally finished merging all my notes Uh, I think it's like 17 pages of notes. Uh, there's no script yet. So it's probably gonna get longer Uh, it's gonna be a chunky boy because that movie is really bad Uh, so yeah, that that's gonna come out someday Uh, I mostly have only time to work on it on the weekend. So It's not as fast as I want it to be but I'm doing my best Uh, other than that, I'm just I'm just basically streaming after work On the totally twitches. What are you playing lately? What's the cool new game? Uh, I do cool new game Dark Souls remaster Hmm classic one. No, I just Fucked around. I'm actually Figuring out what I want to play next, but uh, right now I'm just fucking over random games pretty much And see what's fun. Let's see the most of the fellas here is just hanging out on stream as well Just talking about things and bibs and bobs All that good stuff, uh, I like bibs and bobs. Yeah, um, I'm I'm I'm I'm actually I'm a big fan of bibs and bobs. Yeah. Yeah, we don't hate everything. We like bibs and bobs. Yeah, bibs and bobs are pretty Yeah, they'll probably start a stream of right when we finish up here. So If you want to hang out, I'm gonna Gonna stream There's uh, there is a link to that in the description go and grab it. Um, uh Mr. Southpaw, what are you doing? Well, still working on my script for last was to it's uh, over 100 pages long And I'm trying to do the best I can to Uh address every issue at least every major issue in that game Uh in depth, but also being relatively Concise to the point um, and of course I'm I'm here in Partaking in the dc eu arc on on eFavids. So incredibly fun Um, and on that note, I I just want to say, you know, we we talked about this And I want to make this clear and you know, we're we're really not affiliated with zack standards justice league as far as I'm concerned And in light of recent events, we we really, you know, if eFap teaches us anything It's about coming together to criticize shit writing and that there's no room for bad takes that is all so true Um and the meme repository. What are you up to? Okay, well, um I'm obviously still editing the me about movies for the dce eu the next one on the chopping block is Uh suicide squad just so I can get that all out of the way So that's not hanging over my head for the rest of time and then immediately going on to snide a cut after that I've also obviously got my channel going on. Um, Hopefully I've got all the audio recorded for a Mandalorian video. Um, so I'm hoping I can get that out once I have a little bit more uh time to jump between the eFap movies and the My own content just trying to figure out that balance and of course eventually working on the rise of skywalker video And eventually, uh, so I'm you know, this is this is still early days But I'm also trying to get a feature film off the ground. Um, and I'm getting concept art commissioned for that So I'm hoping at some point in the future I can talk about that With it with a little bit more detail once everything sorted out But yeah, I'm just keep an eye out for that as well That's pretty sweet. What have you got as a video ideas for the future? I wonder like, uh Topics you want to take because you did the boba fat one. Have you got anything like that? We are like people are wrong about thing Uh, well, uh, the Mandalorian one is about how people are wrong about stormtroopers. So that's kind of so that's kind of what Um, so that's what that's about and I've got a I've got a video I've got actually um, like a like a draft of a script written that's like how you would make a really good superman game as well So I also want to eventually Uh, get that out and how you could you you could not only play as superman But just clock can't as well and kind of have like a Reporter kind of mode in there to kind of add a bit of variety to gameplay So I'm I'm excited to uh, I'm excited to talk more about dc because I think well I think there's a lot of misconceptions about dc that I would like to Dispel with my videos. Um, so that's something I also want to push forward in the future Yeah, yeah good stuff. Um Links for all of this in the description as for myself the boys Kicking on with it as per usual. Oh and something of course is a super chat. So I was unable to get to them I will save them and uh rags myself will Be doing catch-ups as per usual And uh, you know in whatever catch-up that is you'll be able to get more insight on what rags thought However, uh part of the reason why Uh, there's a short efap as well as being relatively exhausted And um, actually no progress on the boys since last we spoke Freshest efap audience Is because other things have to be worked on sometimes, you know Like gadelb as someone's mentioned in the chat there gadelb On its way a legendary episode possibly filled with references as new as recent efaps. Who knows damn The moopa cut of gadelb But that's actually not what I've been working on. You gotta you got something coming soon. Okay, you disgusting creatures and uh, I suppose You know, there's no reason not to mention maybe the The title of said thing you see when you only sleep for about six hours each night for the past like 10 days because you you're desperately trying to put something together that you think People might quite enjoy and you are supposed to get it out Like yesterday and then today and then you're like, no gonna take a few more days. Unfortunately Um, you still have a little bit of hype for it and it's still pretty clear what it may have been already, but um No point dancing around it too much Basically something that is going to be pretty interesting probably something of a video that might change some minds might not who knows called Zach Snyder's Justice League An unbridled rampage Oh my god You