 Good morning, good day, good afternoon, no matter where you are on this planet. We are delighted that you've joined us for another episode of The Nonprofit Show. I'm Julia Patrick here today, without my sidekick, Jared Ransom, the nonprofit nerd. She is busy working with a client today, but we have in our presence with somebody we are so excited to welcome back, Ashley Bright, the message fixer. We could all use some of that, Ashley. Today, we're going to be talking about pitching your nonprofit programming, and it's really an interesting concept. I can't wait to get into this, because if you're not doing this, you're going to be missing out. Again, I'm Julia Patrick, CEO of the American Nonprofit Academy. My co-host, Jared Ransom, the nonprofit nerd, will be back with us tomorrow. We want to make sure we thank all of our presenting sponsors without them. We would not be here. Blumerang American Nonprofit Academy, your part-time controller, nonprofit nerd, fundraising academy, nonprofit Atlas, nonprofit.leader, and staffing boutique. You know, Ashley, these folks for the most part have been with us since day one. We're now in year three, and we are quickly coming upon 600 episodes. Wow, amazing, congratulations. Well, thanks, it kind of freaks me out. And if you want to get to any of those 600 episodes or so, you can find us on Roku, YouTube, Amazon Fire TV, and Vimeo. And also, this is a new thing, and we're super cool and super excited about this. We are now taking our broadcasts and putting them into a podcast format. So you can queue us up. We are on more than 22 platforms, I think, streaming platforms. So let us know what you think of that. Okay, Ashley Bright, friend of the show, welcome back. Thank you very much, it's wonderful to be back. It's such a great way to start the week. Well, hey, I have to show you, I bought these glasses, because you know, I'm like a total glass nerd in honor of you. Wow, those are amazing, I love it. I was like, when I saw these, I'm like, oh my God, we have to get Ashley Bright back on this show. I might just keep these on. Well, thank you, thank you in honor, I appreciate it. Well, you know, the sad thing is, I need these glasses. So they're not just fun. Well, I mean, you know, this is fun and it's good branding, but it's also practical because, hey. It's kind of where it's at. So Ashley, we've had you on a couple of times. We've been really, really interested in your approach and your work. And I think it's one of those things that I wanted to have you kind of frame up something that's happening more and more in our sector. And it's pretty frightening for a lot of people. And that is the concept of a pitch and a fundraising pitch. I'm wondering if you could kind of paint the picture, like what does this mean? And how are you seeing this new format going? Sure, so I started working with nonprofits about eight years ago. And I remember then there was a couple nonprofits, specifically like organizations that were starting to think about pitching. And so they would have some training and they would have, I mean, fast pitch through social venture partners is a pretty prominent one. And I worked with them for many years. And so there was the beginning of this, but it still wasn't something that I think was readily acknowledged in the nonprofit space. On the flip side, it's something that I was working with for-profit clients and startups in the tech space for years. And so I think in the last few years, especially with the pandemic, I think there's a level of competitiveness, if you will. There's dwindling dollars out there. And so I think everybody across the board, before it was startups and for-profit, and I think now in the nonprofit space we're seeing a lot more competition. And I think you're getting a lot of younger people coming into many of these organizations and they're starting to acknowledge the fact that, hey, being on camera, being sharing, pitching, presenting, being out there sharing your message is, it's no longer kind of a secondary issue. It's something that you need to have for-front and you need to have the right people that know how to do it. And you need to have everybody on your team being able to share the right message at the right time. You know, you said something to me that kind of was magical, but it gave me chills and made me a little uncomfortable, which is always a good thing. And then you used boldly the word competitive. And I think that that's like one of those things that freaks out a lot of people in the nonprofit space because we don't use that word as much as we should. And correct me if I'm wrong, but the pitch is a competition, first and foremost, right? I mean, is that the right mindset? Maybe that's the better question. I think it is. And I understand where people are coming from. Believe me, I've been in some of those internal conversations with some of these organizations and there's a lot of apprehension about the idea of competing. The way I look at it is that whether you're a for-profit or a nonprofit, you need funding, you need money, you need resources in order to, the way I like to think but as you need more money to do more are awesome. And so in order to do that, if you truly want your programs to be successful, there's a level of competitiveness. And I don't think that's necessarily a bad thing because if we look at the world collectively, a little bit of healthy competition is good because it sort of drives us all forward in the right way. And so I think that's true of the nonprofit space. And again, it comes down to how much do you care about your cause, your community, the programs you're offering? And do you wanna be around in order to keep doing that and keep having that impact? And to me, that's truthfully no different than a for-profit business that's saying, hey, we've got a great product that we wanna sell and we know people can benefit from it and we wanna be here in five years and 10 years and so on. And it's a tough one, but I think the sooner you embrace it, the better. You know, I love that you framed it up that way for us because that's one of the things that's really a stumbling block for the nonprofit is to say, oh, well, we don't do that because we're a nonprofit. And in that mindset is so, so shackling, if you will. I mean, if you don't look at some of these other things and you're out and about just off the board for the game, I mentioned this to you before in the green room chatter before we went live. And that was that I feel, and I'd love your feedback on this, I feel like there are organizations that totally get this concept down, get the pitch. They're like into cause selling, they're bold, they're fearless and they are just doing great. And then there are others that are just like so frightened by it that they don't even participate. And so those folks that have kind of figured it out are more and more out front and they're garnering more and more of those awards or wins. Do you see that? I do. And I think it parallels a lot of what we've just seen in society and the business climate in general. I think you've got organizations and individuals that much like we talked about, they're adapting, they're maybe not excited, but they're recognizing that change is happening and they're doing what they can to either learn and embrace that or they're bringing on people that can help them do that. And then I think there's others that, whether it's fear or status quo bias or whatever, they're resisting. And I think it's a very short-sighted strategy because the ones that are getting it, they're gonna not only are they gonna get the resources, but they're gonna continue to broaden the awareness of their organization and what they do. And I talk about the three things I do for my clients and the number one thing is help you get attention. Because I mean, if no one knows about you and you're working away kind of in the dark, unfortunately it's a short-term plan because people need to know about you, there's always others out there and you gotta embrace it. I love, love, love that you said that because to me what you just said, you're winning if you lose, you're already gonna win because somebody new out there is gonna hear about you and you're gonna increase your skill, you're gonna, you're winning already. You're winning already. I think that's a great way to look at it. And you never know nowadays because of the way our information is kind of shared organically who is gonna see it? And I always hear those stories of people, it was some sort of two or three or four degrees separated someone that found something out and that person became this vital kind of milestone whether it was through funding or advice or connecting a relationship or something that really brought about that next big change for an organization or an individual. So let's get into the weeds a bit. Give us some ideas like what to include in a pitch but first I want you to help us understand what's the actual time that somebody is gonna be on the stage or pitching? Like, is this like 30 minutes or three hours or is this like five minutes? Like what's the range? And that's the thing. I think we talked about this earlier. There are sort of formal pitch competitions that are going on. The last pitch is one that we know of. And in those cases, they're three minutes. Three minutes? Yeah, so they don't mess around. They don't mess around. And it can sound daunting, three minutes. I mean, what am I gonna do three minutes? But what's amazing is how much can be packed into that three minutes and not in a negative way like it's overwhelming but in a very precise, thoughtful way that's gonna engage people. And so that's the first thing is I think there are those formal presentations but more often than not, and I'm sure you've experienced as you're familiar with this is you may go into a situation thinking, hey, I've got 20 minutes. I'm gonna have a captive audience. They're interested in hearing what I have to say. I'm meeting with the board, whatever. And then you get in there only to find out that, hey, they've been digging through your information and they've only got five minutes and it's gonna be a quick impromptu. They're gonna ask you some questions. And so that's the side of the pitch that many people don't think about. And so when I work with clients, I arm them with not only, hey, here, if you have five minutes, you have 10 minutes, here's how we can talk about it and here's what we can share. But if you're blindsided and you only have three minutes or it's gonna be a Q and A and not a formal presentation or it's gonna be coffee, here's how you can address that as well. And a lot of it comes down to really having clarity on kind of what is your high-level message as an organization and then what are those sort of sub-messages that really hit home in terms of your program, your connection to that program? And I always refer to them as back pocket stories because you never know, is it gonna need to be told in two minutes or 30 seconds? And being ready for that is the key. You know, I love that and I love that you said something too. It was really interesting to me because I've been thinking about the pitches that I've been involved with, that I've been a judge for and that also I've just been in the audience. So three different levels. And I see a stage, I see an auditorium, but what you said something is really interesting to me is that this could be a coffee. So maybe you're saying the things that you include really could be for that stage but also for that one-on-one or Zoom conversation with a donor, it's not really that different, right? Correct, correct. And many times when I'm working with clients whether they're in the nonprofit or the for-profit space what we do is we essentially define that foundational messaging for your organization. It's usually sort of a founding or an origin story. There's probably then some customer or value stories. There may be some stories that get shared amongst the organization to kind of rally support. And once we have those clear then we start working with specifics. So what are the different audiences that you're routinely meeting with? What's their knowledge and point of view? And then starting to kind of tailor those things because we often hear about storytelling as being a powerful tool. Well, stories are graves, but you have to have the right story that is sort of drawing the connection between potentially the problem your organization solves and maybe your personal connection to that organization all wrapped into one really simple powerful story. And so if you got the right stories, it can be a breeze, but if you don't it gets a lot of chatting and talking that doesn't really go anywhere. Right, right. That doesn't really tug at the heart. Correct. And that is concise and really paints a picture. So that's a heavy lift for a lot of our organizations. I'm kind of curious about this next piece. Understanding what we need to be doing, how do we do it? But this is my big question is who is doing it? You know, we've all been part of families to organizations that have the storytellers or have the people that can do this. Are they the only ones that can do this? Or should we, is this something that we can teach that we can get people in our organizations to do this? Or is it just like, forget it, if you don't have a good CEO that can't do it you're screwed or give us a picture for this. Because this isn't going away. True, true. We gotta do this. I mean, I think ultimately it should be the person that is the frontline person that is leading the organization. I would hope that they would be in a position to either A, have a lot of this already or be very willing to learn it. Because I think they're gonna be the lightning rod for a lot of the conversations. With that said, I've also heard of many anecdotal situations where people have said, you know, this person on our team is actually the right person. They're not the CEO, they're not this, but they get it, they're charismatic, they can tell stories. And so, again, it's kind of like, what's your goal? If your goal is to get attention, get funding, then maybe that's the right person for the job. But to answer your other question, it's 100% trainable. I work with people all the... And this is what's so interesting is that we all, we're human beings, okay? We all have the ability to communicate, we all have the ability to tell stories, be empathetic, build trust, and we do that all the time. It's just that when you are in a pitching situation or you're the leader of an organization going out there in the community and meeting with investors potentially or funders, you have to be strategic about it. And that's why I often talk about those back pocket stories because they're authentic, genuine stories to you and your organization, but they are stories that you have learned well enough that depending on the dynamics of that moment, you can pull that story out and use it. And it's a great way to kind of break the ice, build that trust and open people's minds to wanting to learn more. Because nobody wants to hear about the numbers and the details and the stats and everything right up front, that's overwhelming. But a great story that kind of opens the door and well, like we've talked about it, it doesn't matter if it's a networking event over coffee in a meeting or a formal presentation. Being able to kind of open that door, bring people closer and then have that conversation is incredibly powerful. It doesn't matter what industry you're in, what space you're in, you've got to create that common ground and that's where storytelling comes into play. You know, Ashley, back in the day, now I'm dating myself, we used to call something like this, the elevator speech. And you had to think about, and in my case, growing up in the West, not a lot of tall buildings. So our elevator speeches had to go fast, right? You got four forms. I mean, imagine yourself in an elevator and you only have, like you said, to afford it to eight floors and you need to share something about what it is you're doing or what it is you're pitching or supporting. Is that still work or are we beyond that? No, that's still very relevant. And whether it's literally the elevator pitch or not, I think being able to share what you have in a powerful way and knowing what's gonna resonate. We talk about having the, I've always talked about sort of, you have that long format, shorter format and then super short. Okay. And that is just that top of line, catch their attention. I mean, and this is another thing that's fundamental sort of to human beings is we often feel like we need to say everything. Like this is my one chance. I'm gonna, you know, whether it's an elevator or whether it's on stage, it's like, I need to say everything. And I always point out that the number one thing you're trying to do is essentially create interest because nobody's gonna start throwing money at you right away. It's essentially you creating enough interest whether it's tugging on the heartstrings, hitting on some key things that you know this audience is gonna be interested in so that then there's a followup. You know, they wanna get together for coffee. They wanna have a more formal meeting. They wanna take that next step. And it's really that kind of incremental. And so I often talk about in my workshops, there's sort of the wow goal, which is, hey, we're gonna eradicate this problem. But then there's the now goal, which is I need to get approval from these three funders in order to kick off this program. And so how do you rally your message, your talking points to support that now goal with obviously expressing some level of what that wow goal is. And you know, that's a fundamental thing that I think is often overlooked just as human beings. We wanna say everything. Right. You know, I absolutely love that. I love that you said that because I can see myself in that spot. You amp up, you speak more quickly, you try and get everything in there and you just, you don't listen because you're just trying to get it all out there. I love that you said that and framed it up in such a way to make it more of an attraction. How do I pull somebody in for future? It's not just here, but it's a longer-term engagement. Exactly. And I mean, and with that as well, recognizing that it's not a one-way street, there should be a back and forth. And I've had a number of conversations with experienced nonprofit leaders that have been in the space for 20, 30 years. And they talk about how there's often, you know, organizations go in and it's a one-sided. It's like they're just listening and listening and saying and essentially saying, money, money, money. As opposed to being confident and strong and asking the right questions and getting a really clear understanding of why is this individual or this organization willing to support us? What do they hope to gain? What's the backstory? Why us and not someone else? And the most powerful thing is potentially saying, you know what, given what we've talked about, maybe right now isn't the right time. Maybe we should be doing this next quarter or next year or maybe when we do X, it'll be a better fit, which is, I think many people in nonprofit space would say that's crazy. But, you know, I often remember this statement that was made. This was actually an investor startup technology conversation. And the person said, when you take money from someone, you're asking them to share in your dream. And you better hope that you're aligned because if you're not, now you've got someone that's essentially kind of, you know, got their hands on you and they're gonna start steering the ship if you're not careful. And I think that the same is true of the nonprofit space. I mean, if you don't have a mutually respected beneficial relationship, you run that same risk, you know, of it becoming contentious or going away you don't want it to. And that would be, that's worse than not having the money, I would think. I agree, I agree. But it's tough. It's, I will fully acknowledge, it's tough to say, no, take all that money and let's save that till next quarter. Well, you know, I think in the for-profit world, there's such a thing as saying, you know, that's not gonna be a good customer, right? I mean, and I think that you can say that in the nonprofit world, that's not going to be a good donor for them, for us, for the community. And so yeah, it's tough, but I think it's more empowering when you just say, this isn't gonna be a good fit. And learning how to say no is a huge skill. And then the next big skill is learning how to say no with leaving open the opportunity to the road, so. I agree. Now I love that you're talking about the now versus the wow, I'm gonna take that and run with it because I think that's super powerful. If you're talking about working with, let's say a funder, a donor, a community stakeholder leader, I get that because you have those opportunities to be more in a dialogue format, even if it's through email or Zoom, right? But when you're doing a pitch and you're on the stage, and I'm seeing those coming back, the IRL in real life, I mean, people are feeling that like the pandemic is moving to a different phase, we're gonna start to see those, you know, live pieces again. How do you create that relationship where there are questions? I mean, do you just ask a question and hope that the people in the audience are reflecting upon it? Or how do you read the room, those types of things? Well, I think a lot of the fundamentals still play, which is really understanding who is your audience. And so if you're dealing with a more broad audience, you have to tailor to that and you can probably make some assumptions, educated assumptions. And then it's really about using language, terminology, situations that they can relate to. When we talk about stories, again, it's about how do you use a strategic story? And so if I'm using a story, I wanna have a main character in that story that is someone my audience can relate to. Okay, I could be telling a story about a community volunteer and what they did and how this impacted their lives, et cetera. And if I'm speaking to a group that I'm hoping to get some people to volunteer or they're in the community, that's gonna be far more powerful and resonant than if I'm talking about a professor who has his PhD and his doctorate and like nobody in the audience can relate to that at all. And so, I mean, it's very fundamental, really understanding who are you talking to, what are the things that are on their mind? And we talk about, or I often talk about empathy. Empathy is a fundamental core to all human interaction and communication. So having a level of empathy to say, okay, where is this audience coming from? What are the things that they're struggling with? How can I help them or meet them halfway? And that's, I've mentioned a couple of times this common ground. And so using empathy and sort of your earlier point, asking questions, you can ask, and they're not like, hey, I'm gonna hold you to it. It's more like, hey, how many people here have experienced X? People put up their hand like, what about this situation? And what you're doing is you're getting them A to think about themselves and seeing themselves in this situation, but you're also starting to break the ice because people in the audience are like, yeah, that's me or whatever. And it just helps create a dialogue, if you will. It is that sort of back and forth, even though you're in a formal presentation setting. Right, I love that trick. Yeah, I think you're absolutely right because it pulls people back into more of a relationship or participation, even though it's not a typical participation. I remember when we first had you on more than two years ago, I would imagine now, you said something that was really powerful to me. You said, you know, Julia, everybody in that audience wants you to succeed. They don't want you to fail. They might not give you the money or you might not win, but they want you to succeed. They want you to do well and they want to be engaged, whatever that means. And I remember thinking, you know, that alone would reduce an element of fear or concern or stress, whatever words you want to stage fright, you know, to think you're gonna go out in front of a group and they want you to do well. Yeah, it's a basic, I think, kind of fundamental human interaction that you don't wanna see people fail. You don't wanna see people struggle. And so if you are, I always, for myself, I always focus on the value that I can provide to whoever I'm speaking to. And I rest in the intention of that. I mean, I'm a human being too, so I have doubts, I have anxiety, I have those moments too. But the moment I kind of get in there and I see people responding, one of the things I do, and I just actually had a chance to do it maybe three weeks ago, was my first in-person talk after two years. And I did what I always did, which is I went around and started interacting with people before I was up on stage. I was going around and chatting and meeting people and asking questions. And it only took 15 minutes. But what I did is I essentially had 80% of the room, I've already interacted with them in some way. And so that alone has helped sort of bridge that gap, if you will. And the other thing I do is I'll always be, if someone asks a question, I'll refer back to that. You know, like, oh, earlier Julia asked X, Y, and Z. And I mean, what you're following up with is great. And so it's showing there's a dynamic where I'm paying attention, I'm listening. And I just try and get fully in the zone, if you will, in the flow. You know, I think that's a great tool. And I also think that it helps you read the room. You know, you might get some information that allows you to dovetail somebody's comments or attitude or concerns or, you know, wow, wasn't that a great lunch or, you know, I don't know what, but it helps you kind of make it more real and present for what the situation is. Because otherwise you can come on and be missing out on something. Yeah, you're coming on and you're just, you're not bridging that gap, creating that common ground. And I don't care how big you are or how small you are in terms of your status. I feel like people are there to gain something from you, learn something from you. And part of that is that give and take. And... Yeah, absolutely. Well, Ashley, I've loved having you on. Of course, you always give us something to think about. And this is really this pitch concept from coffee to, you know, a major, major auditorium, concert hall, we should say from coffee to concert hall. It's real and it's here. And if you don't understand how to use it as one of your tools, your organization and your fundraising is not gonna be where it could be. So thank you so, so much. I've got to ask a question. I'm thinking about somebody I work with. Do you do personal consultations for somebody who may not have like a specific pitch but they understand that they wanna get better at this? Certainly, yeah, I do one-on-one coaching. And so I do a free discovery call where we'll dig into kind of, you know, what's going on and how we can solve it. And then of course I do group workshops for larger teams to learn about storytelling or work on building confidence. And ultimately my goal is to empower you or as an individual of the group to be more confident in your communication because that's just the beginning. Once you've been able to do that now you get the funding, you get the program rolling and now you can get focused on the things you really wanna do and that you love. Okay, offline, I'm gonna make an introduction because I think there's somebody that I think I could introduce you to, so I'm really excited. Hey, Ashley, I love, love, love everything that you have to say. You inspired my glasses, I'm just gonna say. So I have not worn them yet. I was waiting for you my friend to come back on the show. Thank you, I'm honored, I'm honored. Hey everybody, we wanna make sure that we express our gratitude and thanks to our presenting sponsors, Blumerang, the American Nonprofit Academy, your part-time controller, Nonprofit Nerd, Fundraising Academy, Nonprofit Atlas, Nonprofit Thought Leader and Staffing Boutique. Without these folks, we would not be here day in and day out as the nation's only daily live broadcast for the nonprofit sector. Pretty amazing. Hey Ashley Bright, you are the message fixer. Thank you so much, sir. Thank you very much, have a wonderful week. Thank you, and you know the message that we send out every day before we sign off is to stay well so you can do well. We'll see you back here tomorrow, everyone.