 So, you tell me you're 1,750 years old. Why should I believe you? Because I'm Santa. I'm getting excited, though. This has got to cool. Okay. Here we go. I'm Scott Rouse, my body language expert and analyst. I train law enforcement in the military in interrogation and body language. Mark? I'm Mark Bowden. I'm an expert in human behavior and body language. I help people all over the world to stand out, win trust, gain credibility every time they communicate, including some of the leaders of the G7. Hi, I'm Chase Hughes. I'm an expert in human behavior interrogation. I train the public, military, and intelligence agencies around the world. Greg? I'm Greg Hartley. I'm a former Army interrogator, a behavior and body language expert. I've written 10 books on body language and behavior, and I spend most of my time in Wall Street and corporate America. Today we're going to do something a little bit different. Somebody ran into a guy they believed was Santa Claus and got ahold of Greg and said, hey, listen, man, I met this guy and I really believe he's Santa Claus. Greg, tell us about that. Yeah, a guy I've known 20 years and I trust said, I really believe this guy's Santa Claus. I want you guys to talk to him. We said, okay, we'll get to the bottom of it. Hand him to us. And so we have him. Yeah. So today we're going to talk to Santa Claus and we're going to make sure he's Santa Claus. All right. And he's here voluntarily. Yeah. Yeah. Hello there. How are you? I'm doing fine. Scott, Gregory, Chase, Mark, it's wonderful to see you all. Well, we're so glad you're here. We can hardly stand it. And I know that Greg got ahold of you and you emailed him back and we're going to talk to you about, and no offense, but the validity of you being Santa Claus because around the world, everybody asks that all the time, little children ask their parents. We ask each other. So that's all we're going to do is ask you a few questions and we're going to look at your body language and how you present these answers and we'll make it our decision about whether we think you're the real Santa Claus or not. Does that sound okay to you? Oh, yeah. Here, let me give you my baseline. Oh, my baseline is calling. Oh, well, it looks it. It looks it. So why don't you why don't you tell us your story? Why don't you tell us the story of Santa Claus? So. If you think about it. I started out. A long time ago. So two seventy eighty depending on which calendar you're on. And my parents, they passed away when I was young, about 10 years old. Back then it was a little village called Patara, part of the Holy Roman empire at that time. Well, it was kind of transitioning into that. And when my parents passed away, my uncle, who was part of a little known religion called Christianity back then, decided he was going to adopt me. And I fell in love with the religion and became something of a phenomenon at the time. And then because my parents had left me some money, I decided that at night I was going to go around and deliver gifts and do what I could to help people. And there was a father who had three daughters. And back then, if those daughters didn't have a dowry, bad things were going to happen. He was very poor. So one night I sneak over to his house. I throw some money in and he's happy because now he can marry off his daughter. I come back the next night. I throw in a little bit more money. Then the third night, when I come to throw in some more money, not only does it go right into a stalking by the fire, which started that whole thing, but he saw me. And he saw me and he said, Nicholas, Nicholas, I'm a gorgeous, you know, the wonder worker. And word got out. But the thing is, is because I've been coming back and dropping off the gifts and everything, other people started to do it too. And that kind of gave the origin of the idea of targeted anonymous giving, which is very important and kind of the core part of the ideals of Christmas. So time passes. I become, quote unquote, the boy bishop of Myra. I have several adventures. And then what happens is kind of a mysterious thing happened. I was kind of reborn up north. And when I got there, I ran into the elves. They brought me to a place called what is what was called Hyperborea. It's now called Klaus Valley. And when I got to Klaus Valley, you know, that was a place that a lot of the magical creatures that were trying to get away from humanity came to live. And when they came to live with me, they kind of had their area. I have kind of my area. And the elves kind of bought into the idea of what I was trying to do. And that is trying to inspire people with generosity to be better human beings. The whole naughty or nice thing. And I provide a service to the elves that they truly enjoy. And that is when you live as long as they do, they hate being bored. And so they helped me out and other creatures too. And with their help and our magical technology, I deliver to roughly about 500 million homes every Christmas. And we're still going strong in the message of Christmas about being a better person, the ideals of Christmas, a whole naughty or nice thing, inspiring people, creativity, play. I'm all about that. OK, all right. Well, right out of the gate, then let me ask you this. You you're you've got a lot of elves hanging out the house. All right. And at the I guess your shop, is there is it a shop? Well, yes and no. In Clause Valley, we have our own we have our own home. Mrs. Claus and I, because if you let people do everything for you all the time, pretty soon, you stop being you. And so Santa's watches, dishes, Mrs. Claus does a lot of the baking. I do a lot of the cooking, but, you know, that sort of thing. I mean, we'll take their help inside the house. But in Clause Valley, we've got workshops and design tech and all that toy testing, all that sort of thing. Well, if you're let, let's say, how old are you? One thousand seven hundred and fifty years old. OK. So at some point, obviously, you've stopped aging. Yeah. So first thing you have to understand is magic is a two way street. Magic affects me and what people believe affects me. And so when I'm traveling, how I look can change in some places. I might be taller, I might be shorter. My eyes may change color. I may my skin may be lighter or darker. It depends on what they believe. So belief kind of changes me. And as a human being who's been around elves, I still am aging. Just very slow. Well, let me ask you this. What about your wife? Why isn't she aged? Well, first of all, this is something you never inquired about with a lady. She's probably going to roast me for this, but she's only two hundred and twenty one years old. She's a spring chicken I was delivering to her house. She walked over and she was very worried about some things going on in the village. She asked my help. I said, sure. And she said, I'll see you later. And about 20 years later, I was in a farmer's market and she walked up to me and she said, hello, Nicholas. What could I do? So so I have a couple of questions for you, Sam. Yes, the first one you'll get in a Christos. Omosias, you know, you see us. Oh, we have a scholar in the evening now, Omosios. Well, your Greek is good. Your clothes look good. You look like what I think Santa would look like. Well, thank you. You tell me you're 1750 years old. Your wife is 200 plus years old. You live with elves. You've got technology we don't know about. Right. Well, or magic, you want to call it that? Why should I believe you? Why not? Why not believe in me? You see, one of the things that you folks are all about, in which I absolutely applaud is you're about truth. You're about helping people understand what is true. And that's really hard, especially in these days of the media. I'm all about inspiring people to be better human beings. You know, if I give the right slippers to a young boy, he may become the next British cop. If I give a chemistry set to a young girl, she may become the next Madame Curie. And the thing is, is we learn how to be good human beings when we play with each other. And that's really a short supply, especially nowadays. But when we learn to play and we learn to believe, we believe in the things that are that are critical to the human experience. Those things that are intangible in love, in equality, in justice, that's all a belief mechanism. And so the whole naughty or nice contract when somebody does something nice and good things happen to them, you know, that's the the underpinnings of society as we know it. We agree to drive at a certain speed in the sleigh. It's 8000 miles per hour. But if you're on the road 70 miles an hour, but you're agreeing that everybody else is going to kind of play by the same rules, that's how society works. And so what I'm doing is I'm out there trying to inspire society. OK, Santa, during the solstice in Nordic mythology, there is a God Odin who is pulled by a bores across the night sky. Isn't that just a little bit similar to you? Are you not just a reproduction of an old Norse myth? OK, first of all, thank you for realizing that the Christmas tradition comes from many different cultures and many different traditions. So, yeah, you. Odin, by the way, was not that big on the Golden War. That was Frey and a Golden War of sunlight called Gulenversy. And he, you know, would recruit fighters on solstice. Slightly different thing. As far as different traditions, sure, every lots of different cultures contributed to think of Christmas as being like a snowball and it picks up different things as it moves through time. And so, you know, mistletoe and holly and, you know, wasale and all these kind of things all come from different traditions. OK, Chase, what do you got? Santa, from a behavioral perspective, you know, we've all got your baseline now. I'd like you to just walk us through what it's like coming home, the entrance to the North Pole where where you live. Well, OK, first of all, there are some things I can't do. And I can't, of course, give you the keys to the kingdom of how to get to the North Pole. Understand that there are three magical north. There are three North Poles. There is the geographic North Pole that you see on the maps, the magnetic North Pole, which moves around and the magical North Pole, which is where I live, otherwise now called Clause Valley or Hyperborea. And so if you were approaching, what you would see is what's called the green flash. Sailors have seen it from time to time and something akin to St. Elmo's fire as it flowed past you. And then if you knew the right way, you'd eventually get to Clause Valley. You knew a little bit of magic to get to Clause Valley. Does that answer your question? Yes, it does. Absolutely. Yeah, when you see the green flash, that's a bit of magic. But when I was a little kid, when I was 10 years old, I lived in a house and the Christmas tree was in the center room and there were rooms all around it. We didn't have we didn't have a pause. It was a very small house. And yet there's toys in there when I woke up. How'd you get in there without waking any of us up? A little bit of magical technology, Santa's magic key. Every time somebody says Merry Christmas or happy holidays, a little of that belief energy goes and I can just point at a door and it opens up or a little quantum tunneling. I mean, magic, I can create a fireplace that will allow me to get to where I need to be. So this this energy, can you show me? Let me say Merry Christmas. And let me see if let me see what we're dealing with there. Merry Christmas, Santa Claus. Can you try that again? A little more spirit, please. Oh, sorry. Merry Christmas. OK. Right. And by the way, when you were younger, I have to tell you, you remember that time with the chewing gum? Yeah, it was hard to keep you on the nice list that day. Just saying. OK, sorry. Oh, and I believe one of you doesn't like chocolate with nuts. You're you're which one of you is that? Yes, yeah, I'm sorry about that. I sometimes Santa screws up and then the footprints thing and the karate kid. Right. It was me. Yeah. And then of course, Gregory, you remember the drum set, right? Oh, yeah. And I felt that, you know, and by the way, you're your younger brother being born on Christmas morning. How wonderful is that? I know it took a little bit back from you from celebrating the holidays, but you have to admit, he's a wonderful person to have in your life, right? Right. Absolutely. So I got a question for you, Santa. Yes. Some people I'm not saying it's me, but I've heard it from other people and they say that Santa is just adults dressing up as Santa. Now, that's a possibility, isn't it? That is a possibility that some adults dress up as Santa. Sure. And why not? You could go down to a store and buy a Santa costume. But I have to tell you, people seem to think that it's all about me. You know, they want to see me. They stay up at night to see me and that sort of thing. But it's not about me. It's about Christmas spirit. It's about the ideals of Christmas. However, the presents get there. It's it's not about me. It's about what we do to support and love each other. And so if somebody chooses to dress up as me and go out and share Christmas spirit, I'm all for that. I think they're wonderful, especially if they do that well. Now, if they're being a bad Santa, they might end up on the naughty list. So I got one last question for you and then I'm out of out of them. You're a lot like Bigfoot. I hear about you, but everybody's got a camera on them every day. Now, why has nobody ever gotten a picture of you? Well, a couple of reasons to do, you know, just do the math. If I'm visiting 500 million homes, you know, and doing it in essentially forty two hours, give or take, you know, in your time. That means I've got point three, three, three, three nanoseconds for each home. And so I am in and out of that home so fast, you don't even see me. So if you did have a camera, all you would see is essentially, you know, depending on the frame rate of the camera, probably just a flash of that. Well, how do you pull that off? How do you get it out so quick? How do you how do you deliver all the presents on one night? How do you get around so quickly? Well, we have we have some magical technology, misaltonium, ultonium, hollytonite or red fairy dust, white fairy dust, however you want to call it. And then, of course, you know, I have somewhere around here, I have a time splicer. But, you know, essentially, I can stretch time a little bit. That whole wibbly wobbly, timing, whimmy thing. OK. OK. I got I got I got one last question for you. I can understand, you know, something of the science that you might be using here in the new technology. And but I don't have any insights into that. But here's what I do know is naughty and nice is very much a contextual thing. Yeah, that is actually one of the biggest challenges. And so a lot of people don't realize that Mrs. Claus is actually in charge of the naughty or nice things. She has a magic telescope that allows her to look in on problem cases and things. Every villain thinks they're the hero of their own story. Bill Gates, for instance, you know, if you would ask me a few years ago, was he naughty or nice? I would have said, yeah. But then now, you know, I look at all the good works he's doing. He's absolutely on the nice list. And so, you know, I think Santa Santa is a very big believer in third or fourth chances. You know, I think we we all want a chance to for a little bit of redemption, a chance to be loved and give love. And, you know, this year in particular has been a rough year for folks. And so, you know, anything that we can all do to help one another to to share that life, that's a good thing. Well, it's just one last one last thought on that. Do you think you've ever made mistakes? About him guaranteeing he was nice? Yes, absolutely. If you study the lives of saints, you will know that we were not all perfect people. You know, there's a historical account that I supposedly went over the table at the Council of Nicaea and punched Arius in the nose. You know, what can I say, you know? Santa can get a little feisty at times. And I've delivered the wrong presence to people or I've missed places. And so, you know, the first part of the year is all about make goods and, you know, trying to up our quality assurance and make certain everybody gets what they need for for the holidays. So we work very hard with that. And I have an amazing team at North Pole. I've got, you know, just setting up this web meeting, my elf, Nicole Angela, who, by the way, is a big fan. She doesn't understand much about humans. And so she loves watching your show because you give her a lot of insights. But, you know, I have a really wonderful staff that helps me make things happen in my sleigh when I'm traveling on Christmas Eve. I have an elf named Spike. He's a stocky little guy with a mohawk and gauges. And but, you know, he is absolutely wonderful at dealing with animals. And so, you know, if there's a giant rottweiler down there that's going to eat me else and spike in and not a problem. So what's the average lifespan of an elf? Oh, well, first of all, it's very hard to tell because an elf can look like anything they want. And when they get tired of something, they just change and become something else. Or do the elves have specific jobs like one makes this, one makes that? Or does everybody make everything? They tend to specialize. So, Santa, when I was nine, you got me a laser tag set. Oh, yes. I'm guessing that you don't have a laser tag factory or how does that work? How did the brand get on there? So we have contracts with most of the major manufacturers, toy manufacturers, what have you that allow us to essentially duplicate what they have. I mean, my elves can make pretty much anything. And so if we come up with some technology, we might share it with them. And then, of course, they share stuff with us. But because we don't want to flood the market with because I'm a toy maker myself and it would be unfair, we ran stuff with their tags and everything so that it is not you know, going to bring down their their profits and stuff like that because, you know, they have workers, their workers have to make a living too. What makes the reindeer fly? Well, essentially, the reindeer are superheroes. They're mutations. Each one develops a certain abilities and we breed for them and have been for a while. In the when it comes to Christmas, I send you a letter and we have this and you get the letter and we have this unspoken agreement, unsaid agreement that you're going to bring me what I want. I know that agreement. You know, you're aware of that agreement. And then when and I'm expecting you to be there on Christmas Eve and you're expecting to be at my house on Christmas Eve, I'm going to try. That's for sure. So why is it that when you get there? Why don't you want me to see you? I know you're coming. You know you're coming. We both know you're coming. What are you going to see? First of all, as I mentioned earlier, I'm moving so fast. I'm in and out in less than a second. And so if you're up and moving around, I might accidentally run into you. And at that velocity, it could do some real serious damage. So I need you to go to bed on time so I can deliver. And then the other thing is, again, because I'm moving so fast, you know, the cameras aren't going to capture me. And of course, depending on what your belief is, I may look different depending on how you see me, you know. So cameras are just not up to the task yet. Chase, what are we going to ask? Yeah, Sam, I've just got a final question here. We see as many questions as you want, Chase. Thank you. You know, we see in all the movies where there's like a spirit meter, where there's like some meter that powers the slay that impacts Santa. I wanted to know if any of that is true, if that stuff is palpable to you. And if it is, I'd like to understand what that experience is like. I, first of all, if you ask me, why is it you live as long as you do Santa? I couldn't give you an answer. You know, if you ask me how I do everything I do, I would say, you know, with the grace of God and the help of the Elms and everything. But I will tell you that belief. And Christmas and the belief in the ideals of Christmas, the very, very tangible thing, you can feel it. And to give you an idea, I mean, think of this time. This is a rough time for people. But humanity has been through rough times before. I've lived through the Black plague. I've lived through Typhus and cholera, you know, the Spanish flu and all those sort of things. But at the time when it's at its darkest is when a candle has a chance to be its brightest. I'll give you an example. World War I, the Christmas curse, you know, Christmas. The Germans and the English are fighting in no man's land and, you know, trying to kill one another. And yet they hear Christmas music coming from the trenches. And they get up and they cross that blood-filled land full of barbed wire and mustard gas and they shake hands with each other. And they learn that there's more about them alike than there is different. They show each other pictures of their dogs and their families and they play soccer and exchange gifts. That one brief moment, that was a chance for that spirit to shine through time. I'm all about those sort of things. And so when we do something nice for somebody, especially if we do it in secret with no expectation of reward, we have a chance to really help one another. And that's my goal. People ask me, Santa, do this, do that. You know, can you bring me this? But they often forget that Christmas is about giving, not getting. And so when we are our better selves, then Christmas spirit fills the air and it gives me energy to work with and helps me complete my mission. Does that answer your question? Yes, thank you for that. Excellent. Well, I think that's pretty much it. I think thanks for answering our questions and meeting us. We really do appreciate it, Santa. You know, in case I haven't said it, first of all, I know you guys don't believe in me and that's okay. I'm used to it. This is not my first lay right, as I've said. But you know what? I believe in you. And I believe in you for all the good things you've done. And I believe in you because you are loving, gracious people, taking good care of your families. And I believe in you because you take care of the people who follow this podcast and everything. And so, you know, even though I'm very busy, it was truly my honor to come and join you and to, you know, maybe share a little Christmas magic. Thanks for coming, Santa. Yeah, I think you did. You are so welcome. Have a wonderful holiday. Please, everyone, stay safe. Don't congregate unless you have to. If I may add, wear your mask. And what if somebody wants to send you a Christmas list? Oh, well, of course, I hope if you're in the United States, you know that all you have to do is go to the post office and they can get a letter to me at the North Pole. If you wanted to, you know, stop by and maybe arrange a visit with me, you can stop by JingleClause.com. But that's really not that important unless you want. What if we wanted to email you something? JingleClause.com, that's an easy way to do it. But Jingle Clause, just like it sounds. But the thing I was going to say is there are many different ways to contact me. It doesn't matter how you go about doing it. It will get to me eventually, I promise. And oh, and just so you know, I can't deliver world peace. Believe me, if I could, I would have done it already. All right, well, listen, thank you so much for your time. We really appreciate it because we know you're busy as you can possibly be. We really do appreciate it. Thank you so much. All right, I'm proud of you all. Keep up the good work. Thank you. All right, now let's go around the room and talk about very quickly. Let's sum up what we think about what we just saw. Mark, you want to go first? Yeah, so I'm going to let everybody else take any of those kind of body language, behavioral pieces there. Because what I want to focus on is that moment there where he was talking specifically about Spike and Compass Rose. He was dead on about that. There is no, you could see the intensity that he had there, the detail he had around that. Everything was lined up. You don't make that kind of stuff. You don't make names like that up. These are clearly real elves that really exist. And then I just want to say one more thing. Towards the end there where he was talking about the spirit of Christmas and you could feel the emotion there was palpable, he was at that point the spirit of Christmas. You only get that if you're really Santa. So here's what I don't know what you guys think, but I'm going 110% on this one. He's real. That's Santa Claus right in front of us today. Chase, what do you got? The man on this video just told me what I received for Christmas when I was eight. And apologize for leaving boot prints on my living room carpet. I don't need any more body language than that. I know my parents have been talked to him. But from a behavioral perspective, we have eye accessing, the storytelling, the showing, not telling, all of the things that need to be there are there for storytelling and for telling the truth. I am at 110%. Scott? All right. I didn't see any adapters. Not one, not one. His illustrators are right on point and he did illustrate a lot. So and when he was breaking eye contact, he was doing it at the right time. And when he would say something, you could see him look away and thinking. Most people are in the impression when you break eye contact, you're being deceitful, not at all in this case. I saw nothing. I saw zero on this guy. I think that's Santa Claus. I give him 110%. That's Santa Claus. Greg, what do you got? Yeah, so a couple of things. I'm, you know, I'm eye movement guy. And his eyes, when they were moving, he was going to visual access. And when you're asking him questions about Compass Rose and you're asking him questions about Spike, you get visual eye accessing. He's remembering those things. He did not adapt at all. He illustrated. We expect when someone is lying or making something up, their illustrators drop. The only time his illustrators dropped is when he was trying to talk to you about feelings and looking you dead in the eye. Pretty powerful stuff. And I'll even take it a step further. He said he's 1750 years old and I ask him a very pertinent question in Greek about his theology. And he responded with the answer I expect from St. Nicholas. I think this is the guy, 110%. Okay. Well, it's the first time this has happened then. We all give him 100% over 100%. Yeah. So no question there at all. That's Santa Claus. We good? Yeah, yeah. Yeah. Yeah. All right. All right. Well, there's one in the can. I'll see you guys next time. Next time. Next time.