 Hello everyone before we jump into this episode is short introduction. So I'm interviewing Samantha again And she came from now non-anabaptist background and for myself. I grew up in in the Mennonite Church. So This is going to be a slightly different episode Maybe a little more lighthearted about some of the cultural challenges coming from the outside Into the Anabaptist world and things that you know, maybe I would have grown up with that You just don't think about because this is how I've always done it Yeah, slightly different episode But I think it'd be very interesting and very valuable to try to identify what some of those I don't know if you want to call them blind spots But those parts of our cultures that sometimes we don't always see because it's what we're so used to so a little bit of Context before we jump in and hopefully you'll enjoy this episode So Samantha welcome back to the Anabaptist perspectives podcast good to have you on again So this will be the third episode we've done with you and for those listening if they haven't seen the others They should probably go check those out first because they might give a little bit of context for what we're doing here today But you and I were emailing beforehand and trying to figure out like okay How do we want to frame this episode and you came back with a really good? Really good chunk in an email and I actually just saved it and put it in my script because it was just really good and how you were saying Some of the challenges Or challenges are just interesting quirks that Mennonite culture has so I don't I don't have a typical script like I normally do I think it'd just be fun to jump into what some of those are and we'll bounce off of what you'd sent in that email And and see where we end up so as someone who came from Not growing up in the Anabaptist world or the Mennonite church or however you want to say it and Seeing some of these things from the outside be really interesting to hear what you have So what are some of the quirks you noticed and yeah, let's just jump in see what we find okay? Well Disclaimer this isn't to make fun of people We're not laughing at people Because there's things that I've mentioned to people and they'll laugh with me like I didn't know we did that like We just we just do it so this isn't really even Talking about theological things. It's just like Yeah, just cultural quirks or things that we do so it's just yeah things that as a seeker coming in it's like Oh, I didn't know you guys did that like that's kind of weird. That's a surprise. Yeah So yes, I was gonna open with something I'd actually seen on Facebook from a lady and she was a Anabaptist writer and she was just kind of gone about Amish novels And she was like, you know what and that not all men and I girls can identify with this But I can but for those of us who like do our hair up a certain way Or if we have a lot of it like your bun can get pretty big And so she was like, you know what I don't think these Amish novels are accurate at all She's like I have never read one where the Amish hero the midnight girl whatever smashes her bun against the wall to make it flatter She's like, it's just not accurate Yes That made me laugh so much because it's like there's a lot of us that do that Just random stuff like that it's like yeah start going to Bible school or things and you get out And you just like start seeing things and it's like what like Yeah, it's just funny Even just yeah something that Really sticks out to me as being kind of quirky just because Anabapt not even so much because they're an abaptist more because they're dramatic background people we tend to be Why well, I would be dramatic background too But like and about his people tend to be more mellow like our worship services are more reverent more chill Not very emotional or expressive and some people fault us for that, but that's just who we are as a people So it just really tickles me that I have never been in a midnight choir Where we didn't sing some kind of southern like folk song Yes, or some kind of upbeat like in African like or Yes, some kind of Swahili song or something why is that I've sung in a lot of men and acquires back in the day with Bible schools and stuff That is totally true and we love it. We're like, yes We get to sing an African song and it's like this is I don't know The only thing I can figure is like this is where we get emotional expression like we get to like jam out with these African songs It just cracks me up. That's just kind of there's nothing wrong with it. Obviously Yeah, we definitely sang Swahili songs and stuff when I was it yeah Because if you actually stop and think about how obscure that is Mm-hmm Actually, I think that was some of the language you used in your emails Like this is like kind of odd and very obscure like why do we why do we do this? I don't really know but it's just kind of part of the Cultural expression right and I think that would be more Mennonite than some other more conservative circles of Anabaptists because Like you're more Amish fires and things would do more like more your typical hymns and stuff But your men and I acquires like African music and they are so fun to sing and typically audiences love it And even I just had to think about like our friend who was in a choir That got together a couple times toured around and they sang almost strictly Moses Hogan like just all these like Southern folk songs and spirituals and I mean they were good at it. They had that southern slang. It just was so fun and like That's really that is really random Yeah Wow now now I feel like I should ask some people like where where does that come from because that's totally a thing and I can See how like growing up in it Literally never ever crossed my mind until I got your email last week and you're like, hey, have you thought about this? I'm just never crossed my mind, but you having not necessarily growing up with that initially I Can see how that would just be like that's kind of odd Right, you know what's what's some others that that you know some other things well Some of them are just funny stories Well actually when I thought about along the lines of music and this isn't across the board but there are a fair number of Men and I'm speaking more from midnight circles because that's my experience But there are a fair amount of midnight's who play accordions and harmonica's and that was super random thing the first time I saw it like all these people know how to play the accordion. I'm like I get the piano and the guitar especially the guitar and the harmonica cuz like they're portable It's great, but how did the accordion become a thing? Yeah Okay, so if somebody listening to this knows like leave a comment down there because I've again I never thought about this till I got your email and you said it in here Somewhere you call it men and I quirks and little dune tidbits. I think it was and yeah, and you mentioned the accordion and I Again never thought of that but as soon as he says like that really resonates. That's totally a thing So where does it come from somebody somebody comment? We don't know but But I think it's bad comes from you know, you just have Like our groups our churches, you know, we've been together a while and you have these little This whole network of of churches and you kind of develop these interesting trends and ideas I don't know over that it just kind of happens. I mean, I guess the accordion would also be somewhat Germanic So maybe it just came over in state. Well, so that's an interesting point that you've made about the Germanic Influence side. I mentioned this on some other podcasts, but I was in Germany southern Germany Which is where my ancestors would have come from actually back in the day and it felt like I was at home Like I don't know German. I can't speak the language or anything But like the culture was so similar to my experience as a Mennonite that it actually really shocked me I was really surprised the food the way people acted the way Stores were the way people interacted on the street like it it was so familiar And both my wife and I were like, man, we could live here. This feels great you know, I couldn't speak their language neither of us and I Maybe really appreciate that there's a lot of culture that comes from the fact that our people originally were immigrants again My my stripe of the Mennonites at least were immigrants that came over fleeing persecution or whatever in the 1700s And that cultural influences stayed with us. And so is this Germanic flavor this very German Maybe some Swiss Austrian. Yeah, that sector of Europe is still very very strong in our circles Which is kind of nothing wrong with that. It's a beautiful thing But it explains the other thing that I thought about what it is as you were talking like talking about the Swiss Yeah, because another thing that I've seen a fair amount and I enjoy it But it's also just super funny of how we have so many Mennonites who know how to yodel That is no yeah, but the Swiss influence would make sense for that. That's a really good point I never thought about that. Yeah, see and this is where I can see You know someone again coming from the outside and in the last episode We did was kind of this idea of seekers like those who want to join a Mennonite church or an Anabaptist minded church or something And some of the cultural hurt hurdles. I guess I don't know if that may be too strong But some of these things I could see coming in It'd be like these people are just different. I don't know how I fit in I don't did you ever feel that where it's like this is just different enough I'm not sure I can fit into this or was it never anything quite that extreme Maybe in certain communities, but not across the board. Okay But yeah, and like some of these things like the thing like yodeling It's not like we get together as groups in yodel like there's just these random people who are really good at it And I know a number of people who do it and they just enjoy doing it and we enjoy listening But it's just yeah, it's one of those random things Like I never thought of that that's that's so good. That's so yeah again kind of bizarre kind of quirky, you know Interesting. Okay. Yeah, what's what's a few others? Yeah, I guess it isn't so much Quarks, but it kind of comes back to the integration thing I just thought of some funny stories and I asked my sister for permission to share this one but When we were in that community with the rather conservative church with like I don't know if you call them black Bumper, but like where they're all black cars and like really conservative So she had gone to church by herself one day and she had made a dress to match them And but it was like a bright green and so she goes to service and here it's communion Sunday And everybody was in black black across the board and she's in this bright green dress And so she stayed but it was really awkward So that's one of those things I had to think about even for Yeah for our church when we would do VBS like we did it for years and we just all had our rhythm We knew what we were doing and then we had someone come in to help one time And we put them in charge of a group because they were willing to do that and at the end when we were debriefing He was like, okay, so I figured it out on the fly But I had no idea what I was doing. You just handed me a folder and then expected me to just make it work And we were all like we are so sorry It's like we're all just used to knowing what to do and we didn't stop to think the newcomer doesn't get it So yeah, that's kind of a give-and-take on both sides like Midnight people and about his people It would be good for us to try and be more aware of the things that the new person isn't going to just know and Then the new person needs to be okay with maybe feeling a little foolish sometimes because they didn't know because the lack of Telling them isn't intentional. It's just when something's a part of your life It's not you don't think about it being different. And so you don't always remember to communicate those things So yeah, it's kind of a give-and-take on both sides Yeah, this kind of graciousness, I guess is the word that came to mind. I guess that's right. We're yeah, right But isn't that what would happen with you with trying to join essentially any group that's been together for a long period of time? Because the Midnight's have been around a while like you know, we kind of just developed a way of doing life Right wrong and different whatever. It's just kind of just this is who we are culture Yeah, I don't know. It's kind of like whenever I do a lot of traveling internationally and it's really fun because every place I go They just do things a little bit differently and I find it really neat and kind of interesting But it makes me kind of appreciate all the different church cultures that are out there not just within the Mennonites But you would have that in you know different forms of the Protestants and the evangelicals and the orthodox groups and the whatever take You pick they all have these interesting ways they developed over the years of doing life doing church I Don't see those things as wrong, you know, of course, they just kind of are I suppose but it makes it Yeah, a little interesting for people joining, you know from the outside Yeah, grace is a good word to use because another story I thought of and this one I had to laugh at myself Which is also a very valuable Character trait to have when you're coming into like you said any cultural setting But we're talking about like coming into anabaptist churches where you're the odd man out and that's okay But there was one time same church because I think of that one because that was the most Drastic church setting that I've experienced as far as like really conservative We've rent someone's house for lunch and I was visiting with all the little children and they spoke Dutch I mean the children spoke English and Dutch, but like at that church They would have predominantly spoke Dutch or German how do you want to say it? And I was sitting with them and they're like, oh, we want to teach you how to say colors I was like, okay, sure And so they started teaching me some things and then we got to yellow and they said Lelo And so I said it and they just peels of giggles and I was like So they're like try again. So I said Lelo and they just laughed and that's I'm like, all right, you guys like what am I doing wrong? And they're like is Gailo we told you to say it wrong Like you can take that really really bad and be like, oh, it's so me, but I'm like, okay like So you really got to learn to laugh at yourself like Don't take it too seriously when you don't always get it It's okay and even just another one. I've thought about that. I've heard seekers talk about before is We'll just say minutes for the sake of simplicity, but we have memorized a lot of songs a lot of choruses simple songs that will sing You know at the end of service or at communion or I'm thinking specifically like fellowship meals There's like three different chorus songs that are sung at fellowship meals often And so as you're coming in as a secret it's like, okay, everybody's breaking out song. I don't know this So I'm just gonna, you know try to mouth it or awkwardly stand in a corner and it's like, you know, it's okay They grew up singing these songs and it took me a little while to learn them because if you don't hear them often But you can learn them and so yeah Just the thing of not taking yourself too seriously and just being real self-conscious and uptight like oh, I just don't fit in And I just don't get it Yeah, I mean you can ask someone for help you could have them like can you write out the words for me? So I can at least know the words and then learn the tune like if you want To quotes fit in like if you want to be involved Take steps to learn and give yourself time to learn like nobody's laughing at you because you don't know Because they know you don't know and it's okay But yeah, that was definitely when I thought about because even when we get together for small groups We'll often have a chorus book that has no sheet music with it It's just the words and people just know the music from it being passed down and just from memory And so you have to give yourself time to learn those things without being all self-conscious about it and just like You know, they're so different from me So I think our perspective really helps a lot with that and just being willing to ask for help There's as you're saying that immediately thought of it an essay that CS Lewis wrote called the in it I think it's called the inner ring or something like that and it's writing about this Now each person has this innate desire to belong to a group of some kind You could use the terms like community a religious group of some kind like why why is religion so big in the world? You know, not just Christianity take your pick of any major religion. It's because it's a place to belong and fit in On the flip side if you feel like you're not fitting in or you're missing a critical piece to fit into Whatever that group might be it. It's like a cognitive dissonance They could you it you something's off. You don't feel right and it can really Really be hard for a person and that's kind of how we're hardwired I don't I don't know why God made it entirely that way I think it's because we're not designed to do life by ourselves in isolation, you know but it can be really difficult it can feel like I don't fit in I don't belong and That's unfortunate because I don't think that would be the intention of anybody, you know in that case of They have the songs memorized and you don't or whatever. It's not like oh, we're trying to isolate you from the group. It's But I can see how that could be very Painful over time, especially if it is an ongoing situation like for you How long did it feel that how much time did it feel like you needed? To start saying hey, I actually feel like I belong here. I feel like I know how things work now Was that a pretty long process or did it come fairly naturally? I honestly don't remember because we would have Been at a couple of different churches over that initial period for different reasons and again Like I was a young person kind of like we talked about in the previous episode here So it was easier for me to assimilate So I didn't feel as much of that because I was learning faster Yeah, I could see how age could be a factor in that, you know that the culture herders Again, I do a lot of traveling internationally with different ministries and things that's incredible when a family moves to a foreign culture To do missions or whatever the the children are just a wonder to watch they simulate so well Like before you know it you turn around and they're like speaking the language and hanging out with their local friends And it's like no big deal and the parents are struggling to fit into the whatever culture it might be You know, it's just the way it is. It's really hard. So age I think may have something to do with it or may depend on how big the cultural gap is that you're leaping to I don't know I Don't maybe maybe that's what we're trying to do with this This episode is this that awareness of you know, there is there's gonna be some cultural Cultural learning curve, I suppose, right? I don't know. What's a few others? Did you have any others you wanted to mention? for one other cultural thing and I saw this more at Bible school and it just really tickled me, but even looking back at like Mennonite pictures from like, you know the 60s and 70s and 80s It's like well the worldly culture was having all of their hairstyles and all of their crazy clothes and like all their stuff Like Mennonites over that period and in the even than the Amish to like they had their trends Like, you know, you might have a season where all the women were elastic in the waist of their cape dresses Well now we're to belts or now we're to fitted waist and you know How they wear their covering or how we can't do a whole lot with our hairstyle under our cap But we're ever a veil or whatever But you know, you might have your hair down over your ears or like kind of the trend with young people now Like the generation after me is to like have a little loose hair around your ear Whatever like we can find ways to be a little trendy So it's like Mennonites and about his people are not immune to that Yeah, and if you're in it, you see those little subtleties and I just like it cracks me up right now certain Mennonite communities The guys are really really trendy hairstyles and some of them are pretty elaborate and it just cracks me up And I just asked them sometimes I'm like, you know when you're 80 and you look at back at these pictures Are you gonna feel like people from like the 1970s who like why did I do that? Like why did I have a mullet like So it's like Mennonites are not immune to fashion trends, but they just look a little different It's like a whole rocket science too of like trying to figure it all out It'll depend on like which Mennonite group and where they are in North America and who they're trying to associate with And it you know, I mean for the most part it's kind of like okay, whatever, you know It's not really whatever it is. It just is but I do find it kind of hilarious in its own unique way It's such a human thing Just humanity of just like how can we have self-expression? Oh, that's kind of cool. I like that Okay, so before we started before just before we hit the record button another one that your husband sitting here off-camera I think I think it was you who said it was it volleyball or who mentioned Maybe that was our camera guys It's something about like volleyball is like the thing for you know, especially Mennonite young men You know like volleyball and softball Well, the softball is very much of a southern in the southern and I'm sure yeah Goodness, it's a thing such a thing and I never thought about that Until it's like yeah, we just get together and play softball like all the time like we have yeah We will cross the nation for a volleyball turn it I mean some churches are stock staunchly against tournament because they're not they're not okay with organized competition Like they're not okay with that but yeah Well, but this is one way that Mennonite young people can kind of get around not playing in say leagues or right school setting or something like that Okay, yeah, whatever each church kind of has to figure out where they fall in that right absolutely some of these young guys are literally You know on weekends. They're incredibly good and they're driving You know six hours one way to go play a tournament You know, it just is like it's just a thing that we do apparently and it's a way we built like yeah It's why we play but it's a way we build relationship because yeah Like you said you go to these volleyball tournaments or you go to Bible school and you'll play volleyball whatever but oh Ceaselessly yeah, I'm not much of a volleyball guy. I look like a giraffe out there, but but but you know, but yeah It was actually I so I actually thought about that one because that one was one I didn't really fit in like as well like it's okay But it wasn't like my thing, but for some guys at Bible school like it was their thing It was a big deal and I always kind of wondered about that. It's like and if you don't fit in to that You said all the bleachers. Yeah, I can feel a little odd You know it can feel it and that comes back to that whole like all of us want to fit in Right, you know and it and this can this can be hard. It can be a challenge Um, but I think I think you'd said something like don't take it too seriously or don't Don't um, it's okay to be different. Yeah, there you go. Yeah. Yeah. I think that's uh, I think there's some truth to that You know, yeah, and kind of bunny trailing off of that Um, maybe I'm a little bit more serious note, but thinking about I guess I want to find a balance here between like the way Mennonites are as a culture is okay because it's who we are As a people just like any other culture has their quirks has their ways of doing things like it doesn't mean it's bad Just because it's unique to them but As a seeker coming in you're going to have a fresh perspective on it You're going to be looking at things and being like That's unusual or that doesn't make sense because you didn't grow up with that It's not normal for you and that can be really valuable not in a I want to change you and challenge everything kind of way I don't think that's the right way to approach that but just like curiosity and wanting to learn and that kind of thing But something I definitely thought about as far as what you were talking about with like kind of peer pressure Um, and we both know like there's there's some communities that are worse about this than others But there is definitely really strong peer pressure and the pressure to perform In a lot of our communities partly because a lot of our Um principles show up in externals Which isn't a bad thing like you know the principle of modesty or the principle of Cleanliness or orderliness because those are traits of god like god is a god of order and you know Those kinds of things and that we reflect that in our external lives. So that's not bad But then those can turn into You're not good enough if Or you need to measure up and I think as seekers coming in I guess striking that balance between There will be ways you need to assimilate Just because it is a culture But at the same time coming in as a seeker someone different You can come in and say I don't like to bake Or I don't own my own business or I hate volleyball like and that's okay If you can come in as a seeker willing to learn but also being Learning to be completely comfortable with who you are and not feeling like you have to beam in a night Like all these other things that we do that aren't really Necessary, you know what I mean like playing volleyball, whatever um Learning how to sew and those kinds of things like Yeah, I know a lady just recently told me she's like when I told her I was doing this interview She's like well, I just I don't want people coming in thinking well They just have to know how to make bread like she's like you don't have to it's okay So I think as seekers coming in we can maybe help Help bring perspective to that pressure to perform If we can learn how to assimilate but also be comfortable with who we are And saying no to that unhealthy peer pressure If you know what I mean Yeah Yeah, like well again, this was something Before we hit record what you're talking about. Yeah, all of us here and one of them was To be you know, okay back up a little bit one of the Mennonite culture Things, um, I think it comes from a kind of that german swiss background, but we do things right We are super productive. We're like, I'm we we get things done Again good things, you know, but that can push into um, you need to Be very economically prosperous, you know, you need to work hard Another one is you you should have a business. That's like super common, you know for Mennonite Guys, especially to have their own business And those things I think can very quickly Again, those are not wrong But that could push into some things that aren't so good because that can put some some serious pressure on someone coming in To feel like well to fit in. I mean, this is this is how I'm supposed to do it So I need to start a business too. Well, hold on, you know, you don't have to do that But that is pretty deep in our culture actually Which is kind of a quirky Thing, I guess. I mean, that's a it's a lot of work, you know, but it's just how we are, I suppose So that I see some of these things can just be kind of whatever You know that they are you mean you like volleyball. You don't whatever but um If it's something where you feel a lot of pressure of oh, man I need to be working really really hard and have my own business and blah blah blah like the whole list I don't know and this will vary from Mennonite community to Mennonite community, but some of those things I don't know. It feels like that could be a lot of unnecessary pressure not intentionally I don't think other The seekers coming in or whatever are being pressured. You have to do it this way but just by osmosis You feel like you should I don't know do you want to speak into that where these things aren't wrong things But it could put an unhealthy push on people to be something. Maybe they shouldn't right I think that's where Some of that conflict that comes for people looking out even if they're not interested in becoming an abaptist So like well, they're just everything they do is on the outside Because there's so much pressure to perform and like we're known for our worth work ethic which comes out of Like godly principles, but then that becomes can become not always, but it can become an overriding thing So then like, you know, if you have moms that are in a really busy state of littles and just like Their house is a wreck and so they can just feel like well I can't host anybody until I get all tidied up and then you just can't and then you never host like Yeah And even just that like something like hosting we can bunny trail a little bit from what we're just talking about But I know that's something that I've heard From people who've hosted a seeker visiting their church for the first time or whatever regardless of well Yeah, kind of regardless of their background, but often it's a non-churched background Um, it's not uncommon At all to have someone set up to host every sunday Like just have a schedule if someone in the church is gonna host if there's Visitors, whether it's you know out-of-town mininites or a local visit or whatever like to have someone in place to have Like a meal ready for visitors and I love that about our churches. I love that we are Involved in that way, but there's been so many times that and I guess I would say specifically an un-churched person because like we're in the bible belt We have lots of baptists. They do potlucks Like there's a lot of fellow shipping around food that happens in some other denominations as well But uh, so I'll say specifically un-churched people They'll get invited to someone's home for lunch and it feels really weird It feels really awkward And it's like I'm in your home. I'm at your table. This is your personal space and it's like What do I do with myself? This feels weird and for us it's just like it's normal because I literally don't think a thing of it. Yeah, that's so interesting because I have some local friends I'm like The the one had helped like with this house that that we built and it's like, hey come on over sometime I'll show you the finished product and like we'll hang out and I'll make you a smoothing or something I mean nothing crazy at all like and and uh, You know, that's that's just hard for some people to do because it feels oh, but this is your your space Whereas we're just like, oh no, like we just do this. Yeah, it's it's it's a very um I'm not really sure where that comes from actually now that I think about it. I wonder where we get that I don't know maybe because we typically be since we're more community minded we're just More open in that way because like we view people outside of our family as Part of our family like we just kind of welcome people in and I mean it's Again, it comes back to those biblical principles of like, you know show hospitality to strangers and like those kinds of things So like hospitality is something I feel like anabaptists do really well And I'm really thankful for that because there's been so many times When it's just left an incredible testimony of like it is Significant and I don't really understand it because I'm used to it now So I'm like it's not weird for me to go to someone's home Especially someone that I know fairly well just like, you know, if people come to my house I'm just like I can't hear the door just come in like it's fine And I have friends that you know if they come over lunch I'm like just raid the fridge and they know they can raid the fridge and like Yeah, so I think it I think it is unique in our american culture to do that And that's one of those things I really love like I love that about anabaptist culture So maybe that's a bit of a quirk, but that's like a really positive quirk, right? I would I would very much agree with you on that. That is a very positive thing. Yeah, and I guess it's not a quirk, but it's something we've held on to is just The thing of gender roles and I think one of the things that makes it easier for us to do that is because Our women are fulfilling those roles of like homemaker Which I know is going to be super controversial for people, right? I know the comments are just going to come for you now That's just gonna come It's like I'm not opposed like we have so many women who do part-time jobs or they're doing, you know work from home Oh my goodness the norwex and the lemongrass Oh, that's very eminent cultural phenomenon We won't get into that one. Um, if you're curious what that is you can leave a comment If you haven't heard of it yet, but that is definitely We have so many like norwex and lemongrass and tupperware reps like it's something they can do from home Yeah, it works. Yeah, so like I'm not saying women can't work at all or that our women don't go to school because like I know some women who have like pooled a load because they want a degree or for nursing, whatever, but I do think that is probably what helps us be able to host well because our ladies are embracing that Scriptural role of women being keepers at home and caring for the home So then we can you know prepare meals that are pleasant doesn't have to be complicated, but you know, we have The time to be home to prepare our home to receive people And so if we're never home, it's always going to look stressful Like it can be stressful sometimes even when you are home when you have lots of children We have things going on whatever but I think That makes us unique as well just how we have embraced Gender roles the way God intended so that we can Serve in those ways Makes us unique Yeah, yeah, there's there's very much this this um Style way of like communal Family oriented things like that like really strong Around centered around those things and again, I don't know entirely where that comes to obviously there's there's biblical Principles for that but it we have it extra strong as opposed to some other church groups I don't know if there's some history there Maybe because of the extreme persecution the Mennonites went through in history and they had to work together Really carefully like really closely to survive Who knows but it's part of who we are and that Yeah, I can definitely throw a curveball like I have a Friend who you know just works at a business here in town and I'm like hey come over We got we got a place for a hammocks if you ever want to just come chill like you can do that And she's you know keeps like I'd love to do that. I'd love to do that But you know it doesn't happen because it it feels kind of weird. It's like oh well that that's your your space You know so as an american In a mainstream americans culture that's like really weird and for me. That's like Not it's nothing. I don't really think about that And it's just it's just what it is, you know, but these things can be kind of throw you a curveball Like when you're coming in fresh You know and not part of having right up in this culture and so forth there was A men and I grew I say grew because it was a number of Local people they got together for I think it was Christmas or New Year's or something And so we're men and I we do food if we're together there will be food. It's just what we do another quirk We can't get together not have food. I mean we are sitting here with chai like we have to have some kind of Beverage or something. It's just how we fellowship, but um So yeah, there was this local lady from the community who was kind of alone She didn't really have a lot of friends or family and this midnight family had made friends with her and they're like Oh, hey come over you can join our party like they were having a number of friends over I think it was New Year's and this lady was like at the end of the evening She's like was there like was the punch spiked or anything because like I feel really good and they're like No, it was just normal punch. Like there was no alcohol anywhere and she's like but I almost feel that way She's like I just feel like relaxed and peaceful and just like like she had a really good time And she was just sure there had to be alcohol somewhere to feel so rest like relaxed and whatever and they're like No, like it's just It's it's just probably you know the presence of God and just the peace of fellowship and like We don't need the extra stuff for that like That is something Wow, so even things like that like if you go to midnight parties, there will not be alcohol If you're used to that you will not see it In our like at our weddings like our weddings are definitely not going to be what you're used to in your typical american weddings and yeah Yeah, but yeah, the cultural it depends on which Part of life you intersect with the magnets, but the the cultural Learning curve is very very very steep in some areas and in other ways, maybe not so much like, you know Yeah, you can get into all those but and again some of them are are really positive like hospitality and so forth Some of them I would view as you know, maybe not so good like maybe some of the pressure of you should have your own business You should I think another way you mentioned before we started recording you should you shouldn't rent you should buy a house That's a big one. I think that one's slowly changing actually But you know that could be a lot of undue unnecessary pressure on someone Just again not because someone's like you should do you know, but it's just that's what everybody else is doing So you feel this pressure to do that and maybe you're shutting you know or whatever You could argue that from all kinds of directions um Yeah, I think maybe all all we're doing here with this episode is just like The awareness that these things are there Because it is so easy for us that are in that environment to completely forget It's like the fish and water like you don't even know the water exists because it's just your culture And that's not wrong, but be at least aware of it um For people and I think people like yourself have been really good for me to help me see that because you'll maybe mention Oh, that's a little different You know or whatever because you're coming from a different background and that's healthy and that's good for us to see that So, okay. Yeah. What's what's a few others? um Now something even just in the community Probably especially in the community that my husband and I live in because we both would have grown up in like small southern church plants where there wasn't a lot of Community connections as far as your bloodlines and so the community we're living in now he has a lot of family history there and Yeah, just the way his family looks he's easily identified as being part of that family And that's true for some other bloodlines as well within the anabaptist church, but Anyway, so we'll be walking through our small town and it's typically an Amish person This random Amish person will come up to us and they never introduce themselves. So we never know who they are Because everybody already knows who they are But we don't because we're new to the community and he'll just be like, oh, you're a so-and-so and we're like Yeah, we can't hide it and he's like so and then he'll just go like Talk about things in the community or he'll try to like just really pick apart the generational lines and like so what part of this family do you come from and all this stuff, but Something that it would be good for seekers to know and not be weirded out by if especially orphan if you're in a larger conservative community like that where they do talk about bloodlines a lot and like your generational backgrounds It can feel really sketchy When like an Amish I'm going to say Amish specifically because that's our experience with people who do this the most When they will come up to you and be like, so who are you? Who is your family? Where are you from? Where do you live? Where do you work and all these things? And I have threatened so many times to just make up a business card and just be like here This is who I am and in the broader world that feels really sketchy It's like, why do you want all this personal information about me? And if it was anyone other than an anabaptist person it would feel really weird and I would totally not give them my information But an anabaptist circle is like bloodlines are really important because community is important and family is important So it's important for us to know Who you are from And that's like that's a blessing because we can trace it like it's not a problem But like for a seeker coming in it can feel Really weird for people to start asking a lot of personal questions about you and be like, okay. Who are you? There's a name for it, you know called the Mennonite game Yes, and some people really like to play the Mennonite game. The Mennonite game is a real Yeah, because like you go to bible school say or something and it's that's Practically part of the introduction process. Oh, you're so-and-so. I'm so-and-so Where are you from? Who's your friend boom and you just try to do you know? Yeah, do you know so-and-so? Well, do you know this person? Oh that church? I visited that church It's like totally a thing the network. Goodness. Mennonites are like the best at networking Because because of these the the community side is so tight and it's very easy You could go to about any Mennonite in North America and find a direct connection to them in no time flat just somehow Even if it's obscure. It won't matter. They will work until they find it no matter how secure You know and some people get terribly annoyed at that and just find it Incredibly frustrating. Some people think it's amazing. It's just you know, it just is it's just right. It just is Which there's a lot of cultures in in other countries where that would be very, you know, very typical You're known by, you know, your father or your father's family or whatever Yeah, exactly. And and what what village you're from or what what country what, you know region what all that stuff What ethnic groups, right? And that's simply what's going on here and it can be yeah very disorienting for a new person coming in and experiencing that and for a seeker coming in it can be It can make you feel like an outsider because it's like well I don't especially as a news seeker like the longer you're there the more people get to know like I have a lot of connections now So it's really from going to bible school or you know being involved with different ministries Like I have a lot of connections now. So now I can I can play the game Like I can play the Mennonite game, but initially it was probably initially it's like No, I I don't know that person and no, I'm not related to them. Like I'm not related to anybody Because you because the let they'll go by last names for example And you didn't really have him in a night last name now at that point. I mean it's at least german But they still struggled with that one like yeah Okay Oh, yeah, yeah, I remember I remember some of that being with your brother sometimes and like they're like, oh wow You know, I do I can't place for that one. Yeah, I can't place you in the Mennonite world You know and and again that can come across or feel very weird It can feel isolating. Yeah I just don't be alone because I don't have those connections and it's certainly you don't have to to fit in like it's okay To not have those connections. It's nice when you do it really is Because then you can feel more connected But I guess that's another thing of like don't let it Intimidate you or discourage you that you don't have those connections Because you simply don't and that's okay Like it's just another place where you just like accept those differences need to be willing to accept those differences And not let it go to you and just be like I just don't fit in Yeah Yeah, I think the takeaways I would have for this episode Which has been a little more lighthearted Some challenges in there challenges as far as like ways to challenge Mennonite background people in ways to challenge seekers Would be to just be like I said just be willing to laugh at yourselves Whether you're Mennonite or seeker like there's going to be seekers who are like not doing Things the way that culture says they should and just like being able to laugh at each other like you're really quirky Well, that didn't make sense and just laugh at each other and it's okay like Yeah, to just not take ourselves too seriously We need to give give ourselves time to learn to know each other and learn how things are and just giving a lot of grace to each other We'll go a long way Yeah graciousness humility I think these are these are some pretty foundational things that we should always have Especially in these cases because it's easy to think our culture is the best, you know Everybody should be like us. I think that's that's really easy because you find fault with it That just really offends me. Yeah. Yeah. Well, what if I'm just genuinely Wondering why like we're confused. Yeah, exactly Yeah, those are some really good takeaways and yeah, I think this is a lot for all of us to think about whether You know, whoever's listening to this whether you're part of a Mennonite church or or you're you're not but you're interested in kind of like what's it like on that side of things and And whatever people fall on the spectrum just there is there is always going to be a cultural element Like every church group Mennonite or not has there certain ways of doing things And yeah, it's definitely there and it's a thing and At least the awareness of it goes a long ways in again being gracious with each other and Learning from each other too. I think that's really important I think the Mennonite churches have a lot to learn from those that join from that haven't grown up in that And have joined I think we have a lot to learn from those people So yeah, I just thanks for taking the time to share this. Um, I will never think about Yodeling and accordions the same way ever again. So I appreciate that. Is there anything else you would like to add as as we wrap this episode up All right. Well, thanks again for coming on the podcast. I appreciate Samantha. Yeah, it's been fun Thanks for listening to this episode with Samantha If you enjoyed this we did two other episodes with her that you can find linked in the description below You can find all our content over on our website at anabaptistperspectives.org We also have a monthly newsletter that you can subscribe to there as well Thanks so much for listening and we'll catch you in the next episode