 They were back were alive. This is community matters and like in the fullest extent, you know, what is the community anyway, it's a group of people that have some, some sort of common bond, who live together and enjoy things together and suffer together and they have their life experience together and the community is like the, the essential group for humanity. I haven't thought about it, but when I'm with Hema Kubera, I think of things like this, that more specifically is Hema Kubera del Barrio. Buenos tardes, Emma, how are you? Buenos tardes, Je, muy bien. You have a Spanish last name, at least for me, I always say Fidel. Okay, in the Caribbean it was really important. Yes, I think it still is. Anyway, Hema's a filmmaker if you didn't know that and we're going to talk today about pathways for filmmakers. You know, I was thinking at first pathways to the stars, but the filmmakers are in their own way the stars, you know, that's the point. So we're going to talk about pathways for filmmakers here today. So first, a little bit of background. Emma is from Madrid originally, am I right about that? Yeah, small town north of Madrid called Medina del Campo, but yeah, around that area, the center of Spain. Yeah, and somewhere along the line she became fascinated with creativity and filmmaking and of course, at least for Hema that that means taking a different view of life than most of us. So let me just get right to that Hema, your view of life is different. How is it different? What is it? Can you articulate that? Well, I see life with a lot of filters. I have a picture of mine when I was like six years old in my father's hometown. We're in the sunglasses. I love the picture because it informs me about how I needed glasses and lenses to see things even when I was a kid. It's very difficult for me to see reality. I live kind of a little bit in a fantasy world sometimes. Well, no wonder that I choose to make documentary films because it's all about reality, but still you tell the story through your lens. Well, what is reality? Reality is different from different people. I suppose there's a continuum there. Well, there are absolutely realistic and boring. Sorry. And there's the ones who are out there in a fantasy world interpreting reality in a kind of organic way. And I would put you on this side. But I suppose there are people in the middle who can appreciate both sides of it. At least some of the time they can be a little in the fantasy world. The beauty of film is an documentary is that reality to me is connection. It's connecting through emotions, through sound, through ear, through touch. And I am not very successful at doing it in my personal life sometimes, but I think I have kind of like a little bit of a gift to do it through film. Touching people through film. So, I mean, do you want to send the same takeaway message each time, or is it different each time? How would you like your viewer to react? Would you like him to come into your reality, your fantasy world? What would you like to change in him? So every time I find a story that I want to dive in, and for me it's a deep dive, because it takes me whatever it takes me to make a film. I consider each film like a universe. So I go in and I have an idea sometimes of what it might be. But what I love about what I do is that it forces me to be flexible, to be in constant connection with reality with if I'm making a film about you, I need to find out who you are. What is your essence? And then with the collaboration of my team, not just the characters, not just the people that I interview, but also my editor, my cinematographer, everything that happens. The people that facilitate the story, I need to be really adapting and being flexible. So I feel like film allows me to kind of like work on myself, you know. You invited me to talk about the path in filmmaking. I was talking to my mother in Spain today and I said, oh my goodness, the path to filmmaking is, I would say that it's like there is this expression in the Bible. I think it is like the ways of God are mysterious. I just felt like, I could say the same thing about film is like the paths are so, you know, there is a business side to it, there is an art side to it. There's a language of cinema that is there, but the paths are so very different for everybody. And to me, I feel like what I do helps me see reality. Even though I express it through a medium that is a lot about dreams and about, you know, the magic of cinema. Indeed, it is magic. So, so how would you like to change me by your movies? How would you like to open my consciousness? How would you like me to see the world differently, you know, by watching your movie? You know, sometimes people ask me, what kind of films do I do make and I said, I don't know, you tell me. I think one of the challenges that I've had in hindsight and when I talk to some of my friends is that my films don't fit easily in boxes. And that has been a difficulty that I face, because I get a lot of rejection also because of that rejection from the, you know, festivals from funders. They're all wrong, you know, they're all totally wrong. No, no, it's just how it is, you know, they are like things and they're important things in the world. And sometimes for me, I think I make films that are very, I love the stories that I tell and the people whose stories I tell. But I think I like multi-layer stories for me as successful comment after somebody watching a film is like, oh, the film stayed with me for three days. Oh, I woke up and I had a dream about that film. Oh, I thought I hated all fighting but then after I watched the film, I just didn't even know what to say. I'm not a filmmaker that is going to give you answers. But I hope that when you go to see the film, your world will open up to something that is already there, but that you get to experience it through emotions. And through the beauty of the language of cinema, I am very lucky to work with really amazing editor is fantastic only the composers that I've worked with. Everybody that I work with, I'm very like. How do you select them? What are you looking for in them? Sensitivity, flexibility, a skill, of course. And more and more as I go, as I grow older, they're good people. Because I've had all kinds of experiences. There's a lot of ego. So if you give me, okay, somebody that has really good intention, maybe not, doesn't know everything about something, but it's going eager to learn it, I will pick that person. But I'm also with my team, I always expect the best, you know, I work with very talented people that add to my craft. You know, my films, I'm finishing now a feature lens film that I've been working on for eight years. It is a lot to them. I'm very difficult sometimes because I'm very much of a perfectionist so I would not give up until I will make any change I need to make. And once I finish the film I never touch it ever again. How do you know what is finished? I know it. You know, it's like, I know it because I have maneuvered it so much like I have been like so much going through it, going through it, going through it, we've tried every single thing. But at some point I know like it's what it is an amazing feeling that I've had with all the films that I've worked on is that when I start the film is like, I sense a story. When it ends, it's not the same story. But when I watch it in the big screen, it is the essence of what I wanted to say. I don't know how to explain that. But it's an amazing film, amazing feeling, and that happens because of the people that I work with. For instance, today's been an amazing day because as I said, I've been working on this film that has been titled Homecoming that now we're going to title the island in me. I haven't announced it yet. The island in me. And Todd Sikafus, who is an amazing composer, just finished the last cue. And now my editor is putting it there. We're finishing the credits. And my films are where they are because of also all the beautiful collaboration of the people that's that hanging there. And we thought I was like, we're talking about music and I was just giving him like my what I like for the ending credits I want something that I don't want something like the beginning I want something that will just be the memory of all the experiences that you've had through the end. And I just had to say that to him. And in less than a day he just came with came out with something beautiful, of course, is brilliant. So, you know, I work, I look for people that are never going to give up that have sensitivity, of course, a skill in the craft. And they're good people, because I think good people in the sense like that they have integrity that they can express their opinions I always say you tell me whatever you have to tell me I will always decide, because I'm the director right producer blah blah blah. But I want them to tell me because if you give the best in you my film is going to be better. It strikes me that when you say you want them to be good people. There's another dimension to that. And that is, living your own life. You want to be surrounded, especially in your work with people who are good people. It's a, it's a question of taste it's a question of what makes a better life for you and maybe self interested in that sense. You don't want people who are not good to be around you. You want to be surrounded with goodness. Interesting that sense because I want, I want them to have the freedom that they need to find, you know, their muse, but also the intention is to make the best film possible. Right. So, and hopefully everybody will benefit out of that, you know. So you got something in the mail today Hema do you want to share with us what you've got in the mail as a surprise today. So last time I was with you we had just premiered the Hawaii International Film Festival, then the pandemic hit right about now I was in Spain, went to Spain, premier there, then the film our actual speaks has continued to travel through virtual film festivals is gone to. We got an award at the Ocean International Film Festival in San Francisco it was fabulous. Then the film went to one, the one International Film Festival. We received the grand jury award for best documentary short. And today, I thought like I want to check the mail because I knew that it was coming and since you invited me I was like maybe we'll be lucky to share this. It arrived in the mail I don't know if you can see with the reflection but this is the best documentary award from the one International Film Festival. And I see the title of the film there in large letters are a total speaks now. Yeah, it's a film that is about. There you go conservation practice the beauty and power and strength and resilience and wisdom of the Puka Puka people and in terms of. Sure, the island of Puka Puka we spoke about it. And the film has also, you know, been to continues to go to virtual fun festivals and one thing about this rear is that is always changing I mean live reality so we change it but so much with the pandemic when we hit. A lot of things were canceled and others had to make the decision do I wait, do I just jump into this virtual world and see what happens. It was an experiment and it's been a really beautiful surprise. The film has gone to Tahiti, the FIFO Internet, Tahiti Film Festival, and also which is premiering Australia and of course I couldn't go to any of those places I hope that I will be able to go with my next film, but the beauty of the pandemic is like with Australia we premiered at the Melbourne Women in Film Festival and I couldn't go. But then I thought well there is this beautiful Puka Puka family that is from Melbourne and that they can go in for for me so I invited Lina and Malina to go to the premiere and they represented their film. And so anyway, another thing about filmmaking is like, I mean, this is nothing new but just we have to always be open to what might happen. In that particular film you found a gem kind of a little tiny precious gem in the middle of nowhere and not everybody has a chance to go to Puka Puka or even know about it and you chose that because it was I guess at least in part because it was largely unattainable by mostly most of us. And you shared that there was a sharing thing you found the essence but you also shared. And you know I find that really a big part of at least the way I perceived filmmaking to happen to be of value. But I want to, I want to, I want to tell you about something I did in preparation for our discussion today. I went back to early days of think tech really early days. And friend of mine put me in touch with a film named Fred Weissman WISEMAN Weissman is an acclaimed filmmaker. I'm not sure that it's documentary probably is. He's a law graduate he went to Yale law school, and he taught law after that and one day, he decided he had to go to his next chapter and find more. So he became a filmmaker and one of the early films he did probably. He's kind of senior now. One of the early films he did was something called Tittacard follies. And it was just an absurd name for a film about an asylum for the criminally insane. And they let him in. Nobody could get it. He got in probably because he was a lawyer and all that. And he spent weeks and weeks and weeks interviewing people they let him do it. And he had clips everywhere. This is before electronic films clips everywhere. And he spent a year year. No, I should say many years evaluating each one of these clips and trying to put those elements together into a meaningful film and he did, you know, he won awards with it. And I wonder what the comparison is between that kind of approach what happened to Weissman. He's made like 40 films. But what it is with with you, I mean, do you do you go to, I guess you do in going to Puka Puka, you go to a place nobody can go. And you take a lot of film, and then you develop a concept that you take the film and you put it together in such a way so that it represents politically what you personally have found. Am I right? What's coming up for me as we're talking is, yes, I totally connect connect with what you're saying. And in this case Puka Puka is called remote island. You know, we're all connected by water so the concept of remote is very controversial because we are connected right but, but when you said that I thought I always enter remote islands, even even when it's like we'll fight in, for instance, it's a world that has not been treated with film. So, and there is an immersion that needs to happen. What's happened to me, my first films were films that I found in the news. You know, and I am trained, I'm a trained journalist. So I know all about the ethics and that helps doesn't it. So I love coming from journalism. But the shift that I've seen in me is that that my last three films have not been films that have that I found in the news. When I did automatic cake. I knew auto, and of course auto is very popular in Hawaii, but I have to spend go and spend time with them and I work on that film for like five years. This was the cheesecake man. Yeah. So it was like, you know, I have to get to know him. I don't know how, you know, and not every filmmaker is like that. There are some filmmakers that go. They know how to cut a scene, there's like three clips, you know, 30 seconds, two seconds that that that that. And I have some friends that I'm like, why don't you do it that way. I don't know. I have to go and be with auto and just film for until is the process is everything for me in the process. The story arises for me, and then my editor bless her heart, you know, is like helps me with putting together the story. Puka Puka, there was is a film is a is a place in the world that has never been documented in film is hardly in the newspaper, Google it, you can even find her to get there. So I got into the story because of a very personal connection you'll find out when the island in me comes out. So these two beautiful women Johnny Frisbee who was in the show and Amelia Borowski, who I know very deeply and personally that's why I got in there but when I got in there. The first five weeks I was there. I realized. This is not enough for me. It's not enough for me to be here for five weeks the place was so rich that in two years later I had to go back and live there for five months and really get it in my body. I would always be an outsider, and that's okay. All my life I'm an outsider. I'm an outsider in Spain. It's like, but they really welcome me like in such a generous way. And I will go there. I live there. I even got injured there. They took care of me. It was amazing and out of all that. I think that is reflected in the film for me is the film about you. I will be in the film too. I never thought I would but now I must see it. It's about Amelia and Johnny and Puka Puka but I had this kind of moral question like I have a very intimate connection to the place and when I go to festivals sometimes it's like what is a spanier doing here in this specific a panel. And I'm like, well, I got there because of love really I went there and I fell in love also with the place. And you know the beautiful thing is that when people see the films they the comments that I'm getting is like they see the love in them. And to me, it's not a rational way of doing it. But it's my way of doing it. I don't know. Maybe, maybe from now on I'll do other films. I'll be hired by Netflix and I could just do films that are. But I'm up until now is just this process of yes, like the filmmaker that you're talking about emerging, submerging myself. Taking this deep dive and see was there. in the end, I'm a journalist, right? So I work with objectivity, like with balancing the stories, all of that. But in the end, it's through my lens. Yeah. It's almost as if the clips of film that you take over that period of time are your paint. They are your paint. And you mix them up, and you put them on the canvas, and then you turn them around and turn them around and turn them around until they finally meet your the lessons you have learned in taking them in the first place. You know, I love talking with you, Jerry, because you're so deep. And I don't mean that in a, I really mean this, you know, when I this this film that is coming up, you'll see that I'm in the film, but it's really never about me. I think I do watch every film that I've made. It's about somebody else, right? It's about this film in Matadors. It's about automatic cake, and his rollercoasters and his cheesecake. It's about puka puka. It's about these two women. But they are reflections of me. It really is, it's like, it's kind of an amazing thing. It's, we're all mirrors, you know, like I'm not a female Matador, but I am, you know, like at the end of the movie, when when Carla Gutierrez put in the film this quote, well, because when I interviewed Eva, she said it's like Eva gives up at the end, we'll fight and she says, she's painting. Then she would, she says, I will, I will keep fighting other balls. Yes, I will. That's me. Yes. That's you. I get it. I get it. I get it. So, you know, but so I do, but it's also not about me. It's about something larger. I think film helps me to transcend things, experiences. The larger part, the larger you and each film is a, it's kind of an expansion of your own life experience. So you made a lot of films. It strikes me that, you know, the subject is always way different. There's two of them that are really alike in any way. And I suppose that's the sort of a mission of yours is to explore the corners, different corners all the time. And the question now, this is a hard one. Now are you ready for a hard question? Let's try. Okay. Which one is your favorite? Oh my, I, you know, I love, I love all of them. I really do. When you watch a film that you've worked on for 10 years, five years, seven years, eight years. I mean, because I get to work with beautiful people and I get a product, I think a piece of art, whatever you want to call a film that is just like, I don't want to change anymore. You know, I feel like when I watch them again, I go through it's like a memory of that life, everything that happened, you know. So I really love, I don't say this, do not have to choose one. I really, I watch, I guess I'm at a recently on a Zoom event that happened here in LA with the Spanish Council. And Maripat was there on Zoom and they asked me, would you change anything 12 years later? And I said, no. And Maripat, they asked Maripat, would you change anything 12 years later? And she said, no. That's a statement. So I really love every film that I've made, you know, and but they get more layer, more layer and change. Well, I was gonna add, for example, you know, you have a character in a film. And you know, I mean, I observed this a lot in my television watching these days is too much. But that's COVID. So I forgive myself. But you know, the best ones are the ones where there's a dynamic where people change as they do in life. And you can see it and enjoy it. And you can put yourself in the shoes of that person who is changing as you are. And so and so you change, don't you? Yes. Yes. Everything changes, right? Like reality is always changing whether we like it or not. Now we've had a really good test of it with a pandemic. We started as a film, you have an idea, the idea changes, the character, the lives of the characters change, your life changes. When you get it to an audience, the audience will make it their own is no longer yours. You know, the impact of the film is beyond you. Yeah. And of course, the thing we talked about a little while ago is, what do you want to achieve? Well, in some tiny perceptible way, you want them to change. I want them to be inspired in a way, like not through me and my work, but like I want them to be like connect with another human, you know, like when you watch automatic cake and see auto and you see all his values, you know, and just his creativity and his ability to be happy and enjoy himself. I want you to be like, oh my God, yes, you can see life with that glass full or empty, you know, I choose to see it full, you know, and he's like, yes, I think I can learn from him, you know, with the El Matador, you know, I'll keep fighting other bulls and I want to make a contribution to the world. Like Mari Pat says, I do we want to do that? You know, it's like, it doesn't matter what you do, you just don't have to be able to fight, you don't have to be a famous person as a celebrity. But I want, I think, I think inspire somebody that you will see some story that is so human that you will be like, you know, that's okay. I went through, she went through that really hard time. I can connect with her because I was there. I want to humanize stories. Does that make sense? Yes. Find humanity. A noble, a noble commission. So where are you going, Emma? Well, where am I going? I hope to continue in the path that I am. I, in terms of my films, I hope that they continue to reach an audience. Yes, El Matador, just screen again after 12 years. Arato speaks, I want to do an impact campaign, take it into the school system that is available widely in the education system. Big idea, but little by little. Now I'm finishing the island in me. I hope it also has a life. And for me, I really, one of the most important things for me is personal growth. Like if anybody that knows me personally or lovers that I've had or like, it's like, it's kind of a pain because I'm always at this thirst for growth. You know, sometimes it's a little bit like limitless. But then, you know, I get like a lot of, I have to deal with a lot of challenges. So I hope things, I hope I continue to do what I'm doing professionally, but that it gets a little bit easier and that I continue to enjoy my life. I really think that regardless of the obstacles, my path moving forward is to keep working, doing beautiful things. And hopefully, hopefully, you know, just enjoy my life. I mean, it sounds very subserving, but I took it away from you. Suppose I said, look, starting on Monday, no more films, that's it. Oh, could you develop in the same way? You know, I've tried to give up because I've been in moments that I was so frustrated and it was not easy. And I'm like, is this a sign that I should give up? It hasn't worked yet. Okay, forget that idea. Well, it hasn't worked yet, but you know, life will tell me. Yeah. I hope, I hope I can continue doing it. I hope, you know, a few things with fundraising get a little bit easier so it doesn't take me years and years and years and years. But I really, you know, if I had, sometimes I said, like, God, in my next life, I want to be a, just make bread, you know, have a shop, make, get up in the morning, make bread, sell it. I'm not minimizing making bread. It's hard work. But it's just something that would be like more immediate, you know, more necessary, you know, like essential. Because sometimes this filmmaking business is just very, very difficult. So I thought about putting it up. Yeah, but I haven't, I don't want to really. I got it. I suppose now, I'm a young, aspiring filmmaker. Maybe I have a little experience. I mean, a lot of people do with the technology these days. And here you really have been around the block and you have found so much in it and you have created so much with it. So here I am, seeking your advice here in our half hour of intense conversation. But it's your advice. My advice, you know, I've had the opportunity in Hawaii to teach when we're community college in some of the classrooms of the University of Hawaii. And I always say, directing is overrated. Don't give it up, but learn a craft, learn a skill, become a camera person, an editor, a sound person, learn the craft so you can actually pay your bills, make it functional, you know. Also, when you're telling your stories, find things from the heart, things that you can, that will feed you regardless of what happens. Because filmmaking, somebody told me years ago, it's like every culture. And it's so true. And at the beginning I was like, what do you mean filmmaking is not agriculture? It's all about the technology? No, it's like you never know what, when you plant your seed, what's going to happen. It could be wasted. It could like grow and be shiny and very fruitful. But in the end, regardless of what happens with the external world, if you're happy, if you're happy, I always ask my students, are you happy with it? Like, and I don't mean in a shallow way. I mean, like, could you live with it? If you can live with it, that will sustain you. So for me, it's like learn a craft, don't give up on tell your stories, find time to tell your stories. And also surround yourself with other beautiful things in your life. It's essential. You know, it's just don't expect, because this world is a lot about external recognition and it's crushing. But if you surround yourself with things that you love, that will feed you and that will sustain you. And if it's meant to be for you, it will be. You know, and if not, you will enjoy it and it will not kill you. Yeah. There's always nutrition there. So, so, where can I see your films? Give me at least an opportunity to see some of them. Where can I go? What can I do to see your films? Um, you know, I am in the process right now of putting all my films on the web on talcual films. They're not there yet, but I'm working on it. One of my films, ella es el matador, is distributed about women made movies. So you can go to women made movies and it's on bimeo in their channel. It's also on my talcual films page. You can just go to the page and you can actually go to the link there. Um, Otomari cake. Um, I, and our Attila speaks, I, I need to put them on my website. So I would say just talcual films, sign up and then as soon as it's up, you will be able to know. Um, the island in me is, I'm now waiting to see where it will premiere. So maybe I can come back to you in a few months and say, Hey, this is how you can watch all these films. Oh, okay. I want that. Let's talk. I mean, what means as it is, it's a sweet expression. It's been, I could say, oh, Jay is talcual. It's just natural. Kind of like it doesn't have a mask. It presents itself. It means as it is. You know, we've met a couple of times before on think tech. And, you know, we talk about how people change and all that. And you do. And I'm always more overpowering than I was the last time. But I'm reminded of a French, a friend, old French statement, you know, plusage, which you are certainly changing include the man, which you are. You have a foundational solidarity, which is why I like you so much. Thank you. Thank you for having me. Thank you for having me. Thank you. Aloha.