 Well, hello again, everybody, for another episode of Dr. Jill Live. As you know, you can find all of our episodes on YouTube, Stitcher iTunes, anywhere you watch, podcast, or listen. And if you're a listener or frequent flyer here, please do stop by and leave your review, because it does help us to reach more people and subscribe to the YouTube channel if you haven't already. Super excited to introduce my guest today, and I'll tell you just a quick backstory that I'll formally introduce him. We were just talking about the biohacking conference, which is where we met last year at Dave's VIP dinner. And it's so fun, because I'm actually, people think I'm this massive extrovert, and I can like be on the stage and shine and all that, but when I get like, small talk in these groups, I'm always kind of an introvert. And it was just fun because I met you and another colleague that does some amazing work and both those relationships have just been really, really neat connections. And just remember, like feeling immediately comfortable, you were so easy to talk to, we had a lot of commonalities. And I was really grateful because I kind of walked into this room, all these people, you know, that is, and maybe no one's like me, but I like I said, I'm kind of this like, I love watching people and learning from people, and I love like a deep conversation with one or two people. That's where I shine like copy and getting to know someone. But the mixers and the small talk, I'm actually really nervous, I don't love that. So you made it easy. It was so fun to meet you there. And like I said, now you were friends and I've kind of stayed in touch and we, I was on your podcast. So it's been a real pleasure. And this year you went to the biohacking. I wasn't able to make it, but hopefully next year I'll be back next year. We'll do it again. And yeah, I'm the same way. I'm the introvert that poses as an extrovert. But the small talk just absolutely kills me. And that's what a room of strangers usually is small. Exactly. It was wonderful. We got to connect, right? I felt the same. Most of them like that, that energy. We're like, OK, I think so. And it was fun to get to know what you do. So let me introduce you. Gasser is currently the president and co-founder of Innovative Medicine, a company dedicated to transforming health care through advanced and truly comprehensive form of personalized integrative medicine. His work in medicine has garnered the attention of top medical minds across six continents, including Nobel laureates, top CEOs, Hollywood royalty, and best-selling authors. In addition, he oversees New York Center for Innovative Medicine, a renowned medical center that attracts patients from all over the world. And I want to hear kind of where you're headed, where you're going. There's so much more I could say, but let's dive in. And I love story. So I'd love to hear kind of your backstory of how you got into this world and kind of to where you're at now. Absolutely. I'll share my hero story, which kind of started at birth because I was born into a medical family. My mother's a psychologist, PhD. My father is a doctor, conventionally trained. Anesthesiologists went into pain services after that at the hospital, but started getting frustrated when I was a little child. I want to say frustrated, just a little bit disappointed with the results he was getting, meaning he was helping people. But it was kind of like he says a revolving door. He gave the drugs. He gave the epidurals. He did surgeries and everything. And they would get better, and then they'd come back worse. And sooner or later, you're sort of out of options and pawned it off to the next doctor. Then you're all just down the line, someone else, because it would always be these different changing instances of chronic disease, how it spreads through the body, how it kind of interacts, even starting with pain, moving on from there. So it was in those late 80s when I was still a young kid that my father started to travel the world. And he started to say, what else is out there that can help my patients? What else can I put in my toolkit to really get better results and not just manage these diseases, but actually help heal people? And that's where I got to go as a little kid to the Great Wall of China. And I think I was, at that time, it was not too many Americans. I think it was in 92 or 93. And I had long, flowing blonde hair and all the Chinese young girls thought I was a boy bander and would take pictures of me, run up to me. And again, I was the introverted little boy that was sitting there shaking like, oh my god, stop taking pictures of me. My mom thought it was very funny when they mistook me for some kind of famous American. But I remember that. That was a great experience. And my father was learning about acupuncture and traditional Chinese medicine. He kept doing that. He kept just traveling the world. And I was blessed to go along for the ride and learn a lot of this stuff as if it were normal. I really thought every doctor did this. And all doctors learned about laser therapies and Ayurveda and shamanism, all these different things. And little did I know that wasn't what most doctors did. Actually, especially in conventional medicine in the United States. But as he brought in his toolkit, he saw better results. And he took it into a private practice and he expanded. And he just started seeing some tough cases and was able to help people through a personalized and functional integrative approach. And after I got out of college, so I actually didn't follow in his footsteps as much as he wanted me to and said, you should be a doctor and take this. You're more to kind of go into medicine. Oh yeah, yeah, yeah, I was, I was kind of, you know, set up to take over his practice and keep things going. And, you know, I appreciated it, but I wanted to carve out my own niche. I wanted to do my own thing. I thought that would be in finance. That's what I went to school for, finance and marketing and business. And then I got into finance and the real world and realized it is absolutely not for me. It was like right away. Like my first day, I was like, wait, I'm just hitting a button over and over and there's like 10 lines of people ahead of me and it's gonna take forever to get to even maybe a place where I could be just a little bit creative there. And I said, no, that's not me. I need to be free more. So I turned to what I knew. I knew medicine. I knew this kind of, this was different now. I realized that what my father was doing was ahead of its game, I thought. It was combining so many different things that were not yet even looked at in conventional Western medicine. And it was getting results. That's what really kind of brought me in. It's like, why don't more people know about this? How can I get involved from a business standpoint work alongside my father? So it was kind of like this beautiful story of like, hey, I'm not a doctor, but I get to work alongside my father in the same industry and hopefully make a bigger impact with him as well where he can spend time healing patients. We can expand this and I could help doctors from the management, administrative, operational side and everything so that they can focus on what really matters and that is healing patients. And that's kind of where we've gotten to nowadays is how do we transform medicine out of sick care to true healthcare and healing people and allow doctors to shine? Oh gosh, you're speaking my language because again, most doctors, as I well know and you well know, don't have a lot of business expertise and they wanna really see the patients, especially if they're heart centered, empathetic, they're not usually, it's rare, I should just say it's rare because there are some that are brilliant business people and also brilliant clinicians, but it's rare to have both. It's very rare to have both. It's like that mixture of like kind of design meets functionality, like Apple was able to do that. You're like up there, if you could do that and if you could be like a healer and good at business, it's like, whoa, but most are one or the other and we have to appreciate that and be able to say, do what you do best. If you don't market yourself, that's fine, don't worry about that. My father never liked getting in front of camera or being marketing or even speaking. He wanted one-on-one interactions with patients. That's what he wanted. And I said, let's give you that and you don't need to worry about marketing. We'll take care of that. Let me take care of that. I love that because again, like even for me, it's interesting, because I'm sure you read years ago, Rocket Fuel about, you know, this just versus the visionary. And like when I started my practice, I had to do everything and I could at the beginning. Everyone does. And the more I've grown and the more I do, the more creative I've gotten in. Like you've been mentioned with finance, use a lot of left brain. I did bioengineering background. So it was just like very analytical left brain. And then as I've grown, I've really, really embraced the intuitive right brain and I love that part. But I feel like I really can't perform in the creative intuitive place if I'm stuck in the details of management or the accounting or any of that. So I've never, which is probably a lot of doctors and a lot of doctors listen to this podcast too. So I think it'll resonate, which is why I'm spending a minute here, really feel like they are inhibited by that management of the business. So again, thank God for people like you. So then you got into the business of medicine. Did you start with just your father and his clinic and then grow or how did it go to where you're at now? Yeah, you know, it was, it was an interesting transition with lots of pivots. Like we started, me and my co-founders, a doctor, Dr. Mark Ivanovski, we started it out as how do we get, you know, the kind of general idea of like, let's say the dispensary. How do we at least get good supplements into the hands of people? This was before Amazon was really large or anything. And it was like, how do you take those, you know, good brands that now integrate of doctors know and start to distribute those at least so people have an understanding of these are what doctors use. These are the good ones. These are good nutrients, nutraceuticals, homeopathic remedies, all of them we saw. And we started that way and then we pivoted. Amazon came around, other things came around there. And so we pivoted into actually educating other doctors. And that was a big one. We said, right, how do we really leave a mark on medicine? You got to educate other doctors. And so we started doing that. We traveled the world, definitely educated people, but we also realized we weren't that in control as to their environment and everything else. So it was a lot of times it was very difficult to just have a weekend with a doctor teaching them all these new techniques and not actually being there to implement it. And so many doctors did, but, you know, to implement a large number of tools within your toolkit, it's pretty hard actually, you know, a lot of doctors already set in their ways they could add one or two new things, but we were asking them to add whole new modalities they had never heard of. If you don't know about energy medicine that takes some time, right? Acupuncture isn't just, oh, I'll just buy some needles and start doing it. Absolutely. So, you know, then we again pivoted and said, all right, let's go back to what we have the most control of and we could do which are the centers. And we started, of course, my father and we expanded the one I'm sitting in now, the New York Center for Innovative Medicine. And we're at this point now looking at other centers, working with other doctors, continue to branch out and create kind of these harmonious environments for healing and place good artists who are doctors within them to expand that way and provide not just the, let's say management side of it but the actual environment, the space to really conduct all this healing in. So that's what I'm excited about is to continue to do that and continue to allow more and more people access to something like this that is, you know, a unique medical approach as you know, that works so well. Oh, I love everything you've said and one thing that two things resonate and then I wanna hear your reflection on this I'm just coming at the doctor perspective with one clinic, right? One thing that you mentioned environment, I remember going pretty much every clinic I've ever built but for sure this latest where I'm at right now and you know, the white walls and the cubicles and all this stuff that we typically see actually I think creates PTSD in patients and you clearly, so the aesthetics really matter and I remember literally designing the clinic everything in mind from the lighting to the ambience to the real artists that were local art to literally have these wine glasses they don't cost any more than a regular glass but when someone gets a glass of water they get their water and a wine glass and it's something you see their face light up because it's me saying you're special and it's no big deal, right? But it's just a little tiny little detail that tells that patient walking in the door that they're like, wow, it's not wine, it's water but it's still like mean something special and all those kinds of details I thought through because I knew I wanted to create an experience because what happens is when a patient starts to feel welcome unconditional love, a healing environment and just even the warmth from our staff like you are so welcome here what can we do to make you comfortable? That's where the healing starts, right? And you know this but like it's so critical so I love that you talked about that what have you noticed in your clinics that you've incorporated that have really made a difference in the healing for the patients? Honestly, everything you've said there is so spot on it's the little things nothing could be bigger to a patient, right? The analysis of everything from the lighting to the types of plants that you have inside we really try and embrace a biophilic design with really trying to make nature as healing so make it as natural as possible as much natural light coming in through the windows of course, everything needs to be purified we have UV, special nerve like air purification all the rooms and everything Even air quality, right? That's one thing we need to do, right? Absolutely, air quality, light quality, energy crystals in certain places, soma vetics which I know we were both there with the array, right? You've got to look at every step of it because honestly, if you want to heal you have to be in the right environment we have to create the right environment within our bodies for healing but we ourselves have to be in the right environment so I never understood how hospitals could have these flickering fluorescent lights chemical smells everywhere because they're using so many cleaners we only use natural cleaners here we don't use any sense or anything if you find anything in the bathroom it's going to be an essential oil or something to cover an odor it's not going to be for breeze or anything like that you look at every angle of that the colors in each room and how they correspond to psychology the way things are positioned openness, large open areas that make you feel a little bit more open you can breathe deeper, things like that just putting on meditative music and things that bring down the sympathetic response because of course, usually coming into a doctor you're going to have some trepidation some stress, some, ooh, what's going to happen they got to put a needle inside of your nose all anyone's talk we actually did this recently, Dr. Karen Hanaway I think I got this out a little bit from you so I'll give you some credit here but we have a post-it notes and it talks about tensions and affirmations and they could scan and learn about the things but we asked them to write down I am healing or I feel greater I love my body as it heals and we put that on the IV bags and give it that intention that goes into that and people really feel good even if they say it's kind of silly I don't really believe in this stuff by the end when they're healing they believe in it because they start to transform and healing should be transformative it shouldn't just be about hey, let's get rid of your symptoms you'll be good that's not really healing that's pressing symptoms so you really want healing to be this transformative thing so education is so important we want them to go home and write more of those affirmations and things so all of that is incorporated into the design so you really got to look at what is the best environment a sanctuary we could create that fosters healing doesn't spike up cortisol levels get you stressed when you walk in isn't this sort of, you know everyone's coming in and out mercy, ruin, clinical it is when they come in oh, is this a spa? is this some kind of, you know you want them to be in a state of I like coming here this is where I really feel good and I can heal and then I take these ideas and hopefully bring them home with me hopefully start to create your own harmonious environment right there where you sleep, where you eat, right because that's so important so I feel like that is the blueprint for medicine in the future regardless of what type of medicine you practice you got to create the environment that helps a patient feel at ease and actually creates a healing response Hey everybody I just stopped by to let you know that my new book, Unexpected Finding Resilience through Functional Medicine, Science and Faith is now available for order wherever you purchase books in this book I share my own journey of overcoming life-threatening illness and the tools and tips and tricks and hope and resilience I found along the way this book includes practical advice for things like cancer and Crohn's disease and other autoimmune conditions infections like Lyme or Epstein Barr and mold and biotoxin-related illness what I really hope is that as you read this book you find transformational wisdom for health and healing if you want to get your own copy stop by readunexpected.com there you can also collect your free bonuses so grab your copy today and begin your own transformational journey through functional medicine in finding resilience in response Brilliant and I love that you're doing that and showing other doctors how to a couple of thoughts as you're talking one is you said transformational totally on board with that love that word and my thought was it's instead of transactional it's transformational right it's like that shift from transaction to transformation and I like that contrast and then second we know you just basically said the key to habits and lifestyle change and anything we want to change about ourselves so we want to eat differently or we want to go to bed earlier when it's all and you know whether it's Dave asked for a BJ fog any of our colleagues that have written about habits 90% of it is our environment because our environmental clues gives us the habits that we start to become our identity right so if you don't have just a house that's going to be an easy habit to break because you can't you have to go out to the store to get it right if you have like for me I have a bedtime routine and I have things kind of set up for reminders like my epsom salts are there by the bath just when you make things easy to do then there's no excuse or one thing I've done is instead of working out of the gym I have like a power play and a pull-up bar if you look at the doorway with the pull-up bar right there and so I put these little habits in my house just because what I do is I no longer do a workout I just go through my day and I'll do different things as I'm walking through my day I sneak in workouts and it's all about that environment which is conducive to have it so I love that you said that because I think that's whether we show people in the clinic or they teach themselves at home to do these things a lot of it is putting those cues and making it easy so that we don't have excuses to not do the things we know we need to do right absolutely and you think about it you only have a patient maybe a few hours a week in there to do that but what about all those other hours in a week what are they doing to continue to heal continue to serve as their own catalyst and their healing response and that's another big thing about this type of medicine isn't that the doctor is you know doing the healing for them they are doing it themselves they are just guiding them through the process of it and basically re-establishing a self-healing environment for the body sort of forgotten or it's become overburdened in many ways but that is our goal you know we always say we're not here to truly heal you and leave you like in a we're here to get you into a self-managing and self-healing state so you could keep doing this we want you out of here as quickly as possible in all honesty you know and that's that's also a unique approach to it because it empowers the patient they're doing the work you know it's all in there to do it and I think when you do that you they then also become very excited because if they have the power then they're going to continue to create the actions afterwards that keep them in a healthy state even once lost their health knows once you get it back it is such a precious treasure nothing else matters when you don't have your health and that really you know I think educates, empowers inspires people to take on the responsibility to heal so true so what have you found in your experience to be the most either surprising or transformative things that you've either learned or done in in this work with doctors and creating clinics in the last decade or so you know one of the biggest things I think even coming from a business background is that like medicine is a strange industry you know it really is there's there's so many doctors I think that have good intentions but the the whole industry is is a little bit kind of broken I would say in many ways you know and and the results aren't there it's kind of like if you went to a financial planner and you were just losing money every year would you be okay with that and somehow so many people are you know they just get a little sicker each year another medication they're feeling a little worse you know they're told it's genetics are just part of the aging but but the quality of life just goes down usually if you're already in that cycle and I found that really while that people are okay with that you know if you lose money people get really angry right they get upset they fight over it they'll take you to court they will bash you somehow in medicine it's become completely okay to sort of just you know slowly fail in a sense and your body gets a little worse and we've so normalized it that you know knowing what I know on the other side and knowing how so many patients that finally do leave the conventional realm after not getting better and go into the functional integrative realm and get better and say why didn't I hear about this earlier and it kind of is like yeah why didn't you and I know that there's a big business behind this I know there's a lot of old established ways to this going back to the 1900s and the Rockefeller medicine men and all that but still it's we live in a day and age where information is all around us you could find so many piece of information and again to me health is such is the most important thing in anyone's life it should be again knowing so many people that lost it and seeing how they suffer and then you know that that's not real living in a sense so I found that really really unique interesting that this industry kind of still goes on without changing too much and with a lot of this just kind of I would say comfort level to how it goes complacent right it's complete complacency and almost this well my doctor told me so so and yeah I feel terrible but it's like why would you say but there's no buts in this we should all be given a chance to live healthy and happy and not be told that it's not possible when we know it's somewhat possible you know there have been miraculous healing events for even people out paralyzing a walk now and that's not what 90% of people with chronic disease are even going through they're just going through a lower quality of life so I found that really interesting because again in business it's always about optimizing it's always the customer wants more and they you know on top of this and that and give them a unique experience and here we are and conventional medicine so many of my friends oh yeah they didn't even touch on diet you know the doctor just said take this bill they didn't say anything about exercise they spent seven minutes with me and look how expensive it is I mean I understand insurance covers it so you don't really see all that but insurance is expensive you know if you ever saw a medical bill it's like whoa your head explodes and the current part of the problem is just like our food from the earth when we used to grow all our food we were associated with the soil quality and the quality of the crop we grew and we like saw from seed to stomach what was happening and now we've become same thing we go the grocery store we get stuff that's trucked across the nation over two weeks time and all this stuff so we don't any longer assist our food with actual real soils and growth and all of that it's the same with our health and our insurance that separation which is why like I go to direct to the consumer I don't have insurance involved and I do that not for me even though it is a benefit to have less time it's actually the patient that gets the benefit because I am 100% about what do they need there's no middle person telling me what's right for them and I will fight for them to the end if I feel like some procedure or herb or medication or whatever I'm doing is right but it sounds like you're saying that actually disconnect has done a disservice because we've farmed out our health to the insurance industry which is not a health industry it's a disease industry right it's a disease management industry it profits as you stay diseased and as long as you're staying alive in disease that makes them a lot of money unfortunately because that's a very sad prospect you would hope but again I went to business school I understand fiduciary duty to stakeholders that is your number one you don't have a fiduciary duty literally a legal obligation to your customers you don't have that and your indemnity is probably up there you're making a lot of money they know how much they'll pay out in the lawsuits and they'll still profit so that is their duty to give that to all their shareholders so it kind of throws you in this well how can a health care industry first put profit and shareholders over sick people but that is exactly how the business realm works and publicly owned companies so you know when you learn those sort of things you say okay that's the legal obligation so yeah the dollars matter most and they are going to preserve that anyway because they have that legal obligation to millions of people but yeah it's a sad realization but at the same time it allows for opportunity to say let's go a different route you know I will never bash conventional medicine my father started there and it sounds like I may be I'm more bashing the business side of it I think antibiotics are incredibly useful I think surgeries are remarkable when you have acute injuries I think hospitals are absolutely necessary but when it comes to conventional medicine we need to face the facts this is not a winning you know battle we're going up against with just the conventional way but there's these there are these amazing opportunities within functional medicine alternative whatever word you want to give it there that are providing great solutions so to me it's let's stop battling each other in medicine I am right now I just could not agree more because that's where it's at and even for me as an MD I've been trying to say how can we talk and bridge this gap there's nothing wrong with conventional medicine in the sense of it is there for emergency stroke heart attack you name it but it's like how can we expand the toolbox right and how can we think differently about absolutely and if anything how can we work with the company to say hey guys the trillions are nice and everything but you could still make billions of dollars we could still have maybe 10% or so that are ill and require some kind of medications of course I'm not saying that let's ban all medications in big pharma maybe it could just be not so big pharma right and not be always looking at profits over people in a sense and marketing it that way even something as simple as every other country except New Zealand United States you cannot market directly to the consumer with pharmaceutical drugs and it makes sense that you can't go out and buy that you literally have to go to your doctor and twist their arm because you saw some nice commercial with people running through a field of sunflowers like well how is that allowed and I understand I would never like expect it to be and again big pharma should be okay with that they should say everywhere else in the world yeah we get it it's the doctor's choice here alongside the patient but you can't start giving patient some kind of medical information they really don't know too much about and influence the doctors just for money right that that and then of course I think expanding on the medical education system to incorporate more nutrition lifestyle things like that this doesn't sound unreasonable if you just break it down right right everything you learn add in a little bit of this that add in a little bit of eastern medicine some other things it wouldn't be too difficult we'd have much more well-rounded doctors coming straight out of medical school really helping people yeah I always say just that toolbox we just need a bigger toolbox there's nothing wrong with commercial tools so let's two things I want to talk about yeah one is you work with doctors and what I've seen over the pandemic especially even before but it's really exponentially gotten worse since then is this dissatisfaction of doctors with the system and wanting more as well so you're probably seeing more and more docs what are the biggest pain points you see with docs who maybe are still stuck in a conventional employee-based system and they're you know they're limited on time they're doing tons of prior authorizations spending a lot of time and things they don't love so what are the biggest pain points and how can models of integrated medicine in clinics like yours actually help doctors as well as patients yeah I think it's really difficult for a doctor to even visualize what it would be like to move away from where they are now it's a very structured and regimented insurance involved bill codes you know it's incredibly systematic the standard operating procedures are all there for them and they almost feel like they need to abide by them and stepping outside would be a death warrant that's that's what they're kind of told or that's their internal belief system almost so it's it's very difficult to find a doctor that's willing to really take that risk of going into something they're not too sure of something they were told wouldn't really work something they were told you know you got to stick within the conventional realm this is the only scientific and we know that now that evidence-based medicine is complete on functional side you know medicine side and there's so much science to it nevertheless I think that it really is the belief systems you know if you could change the belief systems and if you could have doctors just taking a leap of faith I remember my father was first you know thinking about opening a private practice and leaving the hospital his colleagues thought he was crazy they said Tom you're gonna be out of a job soon and I don't know how you pay for your kids everything you know we feel bad for you why are you doing this and of course that gets in your head you know my dad wasn't you know silly or stupid he had skepticism around a lot of this stuff being a conventional doctor and being very logically minded but he said listen there's something in my heart that says this is where I need to go you know don't listen always to your head it can be a little bit corrupt at times you got to listen to your heart and he took that leap of faith he went out of the you know insurance game and everything which was unheard of and he did better than ever you know and patients were happier and patients started coming from all over the world not just locally and they told people and he never advertised the single dollar and had always a busy practice that just grew more nurses more practitioners more everything and you know he doesn't look back on it now at all with any regrets but it took a leap of faith it took a changing of belief system it took a certain level of I want to do more and I can do more and so I think the best way to get doctors to do that is just keep doing what we are doing in this field which is getting people better it's always funny when you know patients kind of jump back and forth between the conventional realm and then come to a you know clinic like ours or yours get better and then go see that doctor what'd you do I mean the good ones the good ones become inquisitive the ones that don't have too big of an ego become I want to talk to this doctor I got to learn more about this the ones with an ego say no I couldn't have been that it's got to go back on your drug right and they get worse almost but I think you know more and more having that open mind I also think the young ones are a little bit easier you know when you're already a little bit older and entrenched in what you do it's hard to take on something you I understand that so I do wish that more and more young doctors saw this as a great opportunity and that's what I feel we're trying to do also we're trying to say hey you just got out of medical school like you know you got a tough road ahead of you somewhat in conventional medicine but you got a pretty good one here where you could super focus on patients not worry about any of the red tape urocracy whatsoever and keep learning because functional and integrative medicine is incredibly dynamic and there's so many changes happening new therapies new advancements that you're constantly learning and going beyond your scope of let's say specialty to keep learning more and more outside of that and that's what really I think a lot of practitioners that are in our industry and in the field of integrative and functional find really rewarding there is never enough to learn you're not stuck within just your anesthesiology specialty or anything it's not just about the CMEs and fulfilling it's actually about going to cool things around the world and adding to your toolkit which is a very rewarding feeling and then you get to see your patients do even better so it's kind of like this you know reward cycle for doctors that finally do and I do think nowadays you're seeing a lot of burnout you know COVID really took a hit on on conventional doctors especially right but what it did from a silver lining from the patient perspective it got them to say I need to do more I do have this chronic disease you know I never really thought about too much I was always on this pill and always kind of feeling fatigued and everything but COVID gave me a little bit of a scare I am in the high-risk factor I got to do more to turn around this and actually heal myself what can I do steps in you know functional medicine yourself other practices so we've seen more and more kind of open-minded people saying I want to go beyond what I'm doing right now and truly heal and optimize my health and I think that works for both sides you know as you have more demand of the patient practitioners usually follow and then if you have frustration and you have this ability to provide an environment where a practitioner could thrive they also see that so it's a win-win scenario I think looking into the future of this I do too I think it could and we never could have predicted the COVID effect on this industry and doctors but it really has opened a huge door for a need that was already there but I think it's like blown it open right oh yeah it really has I think that was you know unintended maybe a consequence of all this but actually a positive one yeah one of the thing I love that you shared about your dad was that sometimes they're called watershed moments but I remember sitting on the threshold I was in an integrative center but I was employed by a hospital and it wasn't working because it was still based on productivity right and there's this watershed moment where I literally could have moved across the country I ended up dead I moved to Colorado and I had no I just savings sold our house and it was completely starting over like you said and it was this I love that you share that because if there's practitioners listening I just want to encourage you I went for 18 months and lived on my savings and yet that decision was when maybe one of the best decisions I ever made in my life to put me to where I'm at now with the freedom in every way and an absolute love for what I do I would never do anything different so I loved and your dad had a very similar story but I kind of wanted to emphasize that watershed point it is freaking hard and again for me I made not enough money to survive I lived off savings for 18 months until it shifted and since 2016 I've had a five-year waitlist so there's plenty of patience there's like that but all that to say not to say anything about me just to say if you're a practitioner out there and you're listening and you're afraid because the fear is real if this is what you love I can almost promise you it will be rewarding but it's that threshold thing and it's not always easy on the other side of that for the first part of it now you've created systems where doctors could probably walk right in and be much more subtle than like someone starting over but I just want to emphasize that's very real but on the other side the rewards are so amazingly worth it it's so abundant and it really is all the doctors that I've seen that have made that leap of faith and gone through those challenges stepped into the fear absolutely have felt completely impassioned by it it almost reinvigorated that why they got into what they do in becoming doctors and practitioners and healthcare workers because you start to transform lives and I use that word a lot because I do think medicine and a healing process is transformative I don't think it's just take these pills call me in the morning that makes no transformation that does not change a person truly on that deeper level of body mind spirit whereas real healing does and when you hear those stories from those patients it's just you know it's such a touching moment for anybody for myself but especially for a doctor who's there and saw the whole thing through and can now give that person a new life and through that new life there's new appreciation they usually pay it forward they start going into their own healing journey as far as learning about it they become practitioners or start funds or write books all these amazing things trickle out of that out of the healing process and so yeah again for any doctor listening like that I gotta say like if you're feeling a little stuck burned out all these things I truly believe that looking at this field and trying to embrace it a little bit more and just seeing does it resonate with you I think it would and I think it gives that that real reward of helping to transform lives I love it and love it I hope there's doctors listening that are kind of because if I could be part of that transformation let's shift to the last few minutes here about you and what do you find your most powerful bio hacks habits health hacks what for your life has been like the top three to five things that are most impactful for your own health and maintaining balance right in the midst of chaos yeah there's so many ways you could take because for for a long time and like you know I post about this stuff on social media and everything like I'm a fan of the gadgets I really am I like you know lasers and I like I'm sitting on a PEMF red light you know thing right now and I have my infrared saunas and I've spent a ton on it you know I used to go to bottom bottom and I still do bottom bottom medicine week and just bring back things right different things of you know lymphatic drainage tools and this and that and but I will say this that with all those tools are wonderful if you don't have the foundations they don't mean much if you don't have the foundation like how you wake up to me is incredibly important like you said I think previously before you got sorry how we go to sleep right your sleep routine I think it's it's if you don't have the foundations down nothing else matters so really get your foundations down how you start your day what you put into your body quality water go to organic food eat it slowly with gratitude right I don't care so much about what you eat I care about the quality and how you eat more even and I think that's so important don't get stuck on anything don't feel guilty while eating ever even if it is something bad for you like what you're not you're not the one to say whether it's bad or not your body is but you saying it's bad is going to make it bad almost right so I found like the biggest hacks to be the bio hacks to be the ones that are the most easy to implement get into nature you know breathe well meditate drink lots of good clean water you know go to sleep and really and and be grateful for all that and then just tune into your body also one of my hacks is just to go on a walk and ask myself questions yeah you know and just how do I feel today what could I've done better like what am I happy about how can I be happier keep asking those questions and you will your body and your intuitive side your subconscious will answer and then just tune into it and do it and enjoy the ride and like you you could plug in all the extra you know gadgets supplements every the peptides the eggs is almost like all of it are great I have no problem with it but if the foundation isn't there the hacks just don't the bio hacks just don't work as well so I always try and let people know like you don't go to the gym and start doing some really strange isometric movement like just do some squats some pushups some body movement first like those are the great ones that really set up the foundation for them to you like you know for you to look at those really unique ones that'll define the like lateral you know doors and I think that's the main point of it is like biohacking is wonderful but you'll always need the foundation to biohack against brilliant I couldn't agree more so last bit is what's the future for Casper are you going to keep doing clinics or what would be your like vision in the next five years of the most impact that you would be able to make yeah for me like I'm really excited about expanding these clinics and getting more artists and kind of building that really providing a wonderful space for both practitioners and patients to go to truly heal and and provide this to access to more people that that's kind of my number one priority I'd love to write a book about all of this I'd love to get together with my father and write a book you know and we both kind of calm down a little bit and get there but those are things you know you got to share your story too and everyone has stories I know you have your wonderful book documentary and everything that's important to share that with others and I think it really connects on emotional side and I think that's one of the biggest things I'd like to do is continue to kind of push for medicine to rehumanize itself to not just be diagnoses and numbers on a piece of like you know paper from a lab but truly understand that at our court we are humans and we have to look beyond that sometimes and healing is a matter of faith it's a matter of beliefs and thoughts and energy and spiritual things and that's really really important because as much as we could do all the IVs in the world all everything if you don't have the belief you'll heal if you don't have the proper mindset you won't you know we could get you probably to a healed spot you'll probably get sick again because of that and so it's really important that I think medicine as a whole focuses on those things and reestablishes our humanity within us because I feel like that's one of the most healing things we all have love every word of that not only story but belief but it's funny because a lot of people say why did you think you overcame cancer and all the stuff you did and at the core I believed I would like that's the core right like there's so important all the other things in the right way or the runway but at the core I just knew in knowing this belief so thank you for ending with such profound words thank you for all you do in the world love your spirit and energy as well as all the beauty that you bring to physicians and to your clinics it's always a pleasure to talk to you thanks again you as well thank you