 Thank you, everyone. Thanks for being here. I'm Rula Khalla from the Financial Times, and our session is about the G20 agenda. In outlining the G20 agenda this year, Chancellor Merkel asked what fears and challenges are associated with globalization and what can we do to address these? How can we safeguard inclusiveness and ensure that the fruits of prosperity and growth are distributed fairly? These questions are even more pressing today. Two days ago, as you all know, Theresa May in Britain made clear the UK will be out of the single market. Tomorrow, a US president with a questionable commitment to free trade will be inaugurated. So to what extent is the G20 agenda in crisis? We have with us a fabulous panel that includes several of the key officials who have to navigate this brave new world. They have to strike a balance between balancing budgets and answering calls for bridging inequality and addressing the causes of populism. It feels like a tall order. I and this audience are hugely interested in what you have to say, so let's get started and let me introduce our panelists first. I think Minister Schorbler, Minister of Finance of Germany, I'm sure you all know him. Next to him, we have Nicolás de Jovny, Minister of Treasury of Argentina. Next is Praben Gordon, the Minister of Finance of South Africa. And at the other end is Mehmet Şimşek, Deputy Prime Minister of Turkey. Thank you all for being here. Let me fire up with a question that I'd like all of you to address. We talk a lot about inclusive growth. For the past three days, this has been the subject of this forum. Can each of you explain to me what you understand by inclusive growth and how do we get to it? Minister Schorbler? I think we should make some differentiation between inclusive growth on a national level and international or global level. For the national problems, I will not say much in this. We'll get back to national. We can back later on. But on the global level, we try to use our G20 presidency, as you have just mentioned, the statement of Chancellor Merkel, to continue the work in the G20 for sustainable and inclusive growth. We try to do it in continuity from the Australian presidency of the Turkish presidency, the Chinese presidency and now the German presidency and the following Argentine presidency. And therefore, what is important for global growth? We have, of course, first of all, we need sustainable growth for inclusiveness. If you look at the global problems, we need urgently growth. And therefore, one of the preconditions is to stick to free trade, even to improve free trade and not to limit and to engage in free trade. That is the wrong direction. If you want to get more inclusive growth, you need more free trade. That is number one. Number two is we have to fight continuously against all these temptations to abuse all these good things. That is what we are working for, financial regulation, to avoid what happened in the financial crisis eight years ago. Again and again, we have made a lot of progress, but it's not done. And with all these new technologies, there are new advantages and new risks. Therefore, we have made digitalization as one of the main points of our presidency. The advantages of digitalization in financial services to get inclusiveness, look at Africa for people to get access for financial services. The digitalization of financial services is the best thing to gain, of course, the dangers therefore for supervision, regulation are also very high, therefore in both regards. Then we have to work for resilience. What Chinese presidency relate on sustainability, we have to make the world economy and the different parts of world global economy more resilient against shocks. And the third part, what we did, what we try to do and what we are working for, is compact with Africa. Africa is in relation to the G20, it seems to be a little bit strange, but since everyone agrees that the biggest risk for global economic development are the so-called geopolitical risks. The most important thing is to have a common a feeling of common responsibility to help and to bring Africa, the African continent on a sustainable path and therefore we have started, we discussed it with our colleagues in the presidency of the G20 to bring Africa as an important part of the agenda of the G20 and we named it a compact with Africa, that's what we tried to do. Very good, thank you. Since we're talking about Africa, I wonder if I can turn to Minister Gordon. I think fundamentally we reached a point globally where as the theme of this web indicates we're either going to have a collective and responsible leadership which is frank enough with ourselves to say we are in a crisis of sorts where we need to do things differently. Secondly, that we have the ability to collaborate across government, business, labour and civil society to produce, if you like, a new economic model that will evolve over time where issues of distribution, of accumulation and the relative weight of different sectors of the economy might have to be different from what we actually see today. Thirdly, the key in all of this is and the lesson of the last few years including the more recent events that you indicated is do citizens actually experience life differently? Whether it's a milka kabral who's a revolutionary from the African continent or a matia sen more recently talking about social justice, people don't eat the idea of social justice. They need to see palpable change in their lives, better jobs, better incomes, the ability to accumulate assets, pass on something to the next generation of people in their families and have a decent set of conditions in which both themselves and their families actually grow up. So that final test for us in inclusive growth is are the lives of ordinary people different, the ones that we all represent in our respect of political systems. And we need to measure from day to day whether or year to year whether we are in fact making a significant impact. But the key is in the next year or so whether through the G20 or through other fora like this one, are we just going to talk, go home and carry on doing the same things? Or are we going to provide that responsive and responsible leadership that begins to change the way in which we manage our individual affairs? A point made in a previous session that we've just left some of us was that everybody here is subjected to elections. And so the elected finally decides whether we return to office as a political party or as individuals to carry on whatever we might actually have started. So credibility and legitimacy with your citizenry is obviously a key element as well. But are we just talking for the sake of talking? Or are we able to generate the actions and the execution that's going to be required to give ourselves credibility in this regard? You make a very important point about how populations perceive social justice. We may have a lot of slogans about social justice, but if they can't feel it and they can't see day to day changes in their lives, then they're simply not convinced by it. Can you minister to Jovnek, you've had a slightly different experience in Argentina. Do you want to tell us how you've gone about it? Our experience with the change of the administration, well, basically Argentina was for the last 12 years close to international trade. So we missed the opportunity of gain, the opportunities that globalization provides to the world. So the result was that Argentina increased its poverty rate, and right now we have to deal with one third of our population living below poverty. Our level of exports and imports is the same that we had in year 2007, 2008. The new administration is opening up the economy again, and we will try to join the world and to receive the benefits of globalization to generate more inclusive growth. But I would like to point some things. For a country like Argentina, it is very important if we want to generate inclusive growth and to decrease poverty to avoid crisis. So in that respect, the role of the G20 is fundamental because it provides global coordination, and the role played by the G20 in the last financial crisis was crushed in that sense. So we want that to be maintained. And at the national level, of course, we want to generate inclusive growth by many ways. One is to pursue sound fiscal policies. By pursuing sound fiscal policies, we avoid crisis. Every crisis in Argentina created a new generation of poor countries like Argentina that not face a permanent demand for its debt is fundamental to have a sound fiscal policy. We need to increase the share of expenditure in infrastructure in Argentina for many things, because infrastructure also is a way of fighting poverty, but also provides with more flexibility to the government expenditure so we can be more counter-cyclical in the bad times. We want to invest in human capital. That's the most important way of taking out of the poverty our population in the long run. In that sense, it is very important that in the next meeting of the G20 that will be held in Argentina by the initiative of our Minister of Education, Mr. Bullridge, who is here, we will have the first meeting of ministers of education of the G20 in a meeting that will be held in Argentina during the G20 meetings. And two points to finish. Another way of generating inclusive growth in Argentina is to put in place a tax system, an efficient tax system that allows to eradicate the informal economy. The tax burden in Argentina is so badly distributed that one-third of the population is working under no protection of any kind, with no social security, with no access to publicly funded health, privately funded health. And we think that if we reform our tax system, we will be able to diminish that so as to generate better opportunities to the people that are working in the informal sector. And last, digitalization. The fourth industrial revolution should be an important part of our agenda. So we want to take steps to anticipate to that. And, well, we are trying to make our first steps on that direction. Thanks. Thank you. You mentioned you're coming out of a crisis. Turkey, I think one would say, is now experiencing a crisis. Minister Shemsek, the pound has been tumbling. The lira, I should say, has been tumbling. I'm thinking about the pound in Britain. Similar. Sorry. Similar. Not quite, actually. The pound's been going up. Minister, within the context of the G20, but also within your own political context today, investors are losing confidence in Turkey. What can you tell them in order to try to restore some of this confidence? Well, Turkey is going through a rough patch, but it's not going to last. Fundamentals have not changed. How many countries can you actually count that have, including, of course, refugees that have population over 83 million with a per capita GDP that is still above $10,000? It's a sizable market. Geography seems like a liability today, but it will become an asset. A couple of years down the road, you may be talking about how to team up with Turkish companies to rebuild Middle East that has been destroyed and, of course, had a big drag. It's been a big drag on Turkey. But can I, if I go back to the theme, inclusiveness was actually one of the three key components of Turkey's G20 presidency along with investments and implementation of reforms. Now, inclusiveness in that sense, to me, actually inclusiveness means more sustainable growth because there is strong evidence that actually inequalities constrain global growth and its key. And I can tell you that not only it was a topic on our agenda, that actually we have developed a few concrete measures that have served us well. Turkey, despite recent traumatic experiences of the past couple of years, have actually been quite a resilient economy. Growth for the past 14, 15 years averaged to nearly 6%. Even post, even including global financial crisis, since 2008, it averaged to nearly 5%. So this is a temporary rough patch. So what I'm trying to say is this. For example, I was at another session earlier, we actually, for new graduates, inclusiveness means providing jobs for youth, we're providing one full year paid by government on the job training to address skill mismatch, but also to education is our top priority where entire from preschool all the way to PhD degrees is free, provided by the state. So on the job training is actually sort of follows that process. The other thing is SMEs was one of core component for us. Having getting SMEs to access finance is usually a key issue for emerging markets. We've just developed a scheme to both reverse the downtrend in Turkish economy, but also more a lasting one. Treasury now provides collateral, meaning kind of guarantee for SMEs to have access to finance. So we assume responsibility for 7% of MPLs providing 90% of collateral for SMEs to access finance. Woman is another key obviously segment of society in terms of labor participation of females is a critical one because we know that if Turkey was to boost female labor participation rate to let's say about 70%, we could actually have per capita GDP grow by at least 22%. So that's another key priority. So Turkey actually has not only sort of made inclusiveness a core topic, but is developing strong schemes. A new startup by a young entrepreneur has a tax exemption for three years within certain limits of course. So we've actually have very practical solutions to enhance inclusiveness and it's working for us. We've created 7.2 million jobs since 2007. Thank you for that. I'm sure the audience will want to come back to it. But let me turn to another very hot topic right now. We have the broad outlines of the Trump administration's thinking on fiscal issues on deregulation and taxes and possibly favoring a weaker dollar. A lot of business people that I've met here are quite excited. Do you see the new administration as being good for global growth over the next few years? I'm still waiting until the definition of the politics by the incoming new president of the United States. Therefore, I think it's a little bit too early to criticize the policy of a president who is only elected, not introduced. You don't have to criticize. You could support yes. Look, I will take an example. I think the president-elect has announced that he will continue or implement an initiative taken in the last months of last year by the outgoing Treasury of the Obama administration, namely to tax income of American companies which have made their benefits outside of the United States, until now they are not taxed. And that is the reason we have some 100 billions of not taxed profits by the biggest companies of the Western world outside the United States. And the guidance and administration of the Treasury have announced that they will be taxed as a reaction by the way of the decision of the European Commission. You can see European Commission matters because the Commission has achieved that the United States is changing this difficult situation. And the president-elect has announced that he will do this. That's a good way. And therefore, I will see maybe the gap between, in taxation, between companies, U.S. companies will not be reduced, will not increase, even in substance be reduced by this way. We will see what will happen. We have worked and we will continue to work on this in city 20 again and again. And I think it's very important, even for global inclusiveness, that we work on the BEPS initiative and all these things to reduce the instruments for using for global acting companies, the jurisdictions in the different legal systems in taxation. And that is what we are working. If we have to continue to work on this, otherwise we will, we damage what we have achieved and what we ultimately must do. Therefore, we will strongly argue in the direction that we will stick to what we have agreed in Antalya, in the G20 summit under the Turkish presidency in the BEPS initiative, I will tell the same to my British friends because the UK has always agreed in the G20 summit in Antalya that we will not use taxation companies as a matter of instrument for competition. That has been agreed. And if we want to be taken serious, we have to stick what we have agreed. But that's been agreed while Britain is within the EU, even if that's agreed on a G20 level. No, no, no, please. I got Prime Minister May saying UK will be a truly global economy. And that has been agreed not in the EU, that has been agreed in the global forum of G20 in Antalya. And therefore a truly global economy has to stick to what has been agreed globally, otherwise that would be a contradiction. And you can always count on UK. UK government is always very consequent and very strict. Therefore, I have no problem. So we can't turn into Singapore then. Can't turn into Singapore. We will, we will, Singapore is a, by the way, we, or this guy who's worked together in the G20, we know each other very well, and we know that our Singapore, a colleague is one of the best performing, best performing finance ministers. We all agree. I think, look, look at the reaction of the environment. And I think it would be a misunderstanding of UK to compare UK with Singapore. UK is something like different, like Singapore. Therefore, that is not, that is not the right thing. I think, you know, in Germany, as is saying, you never eat as hot as it is cooked. And that's my, that's my general feeling on all this announcement. And we will, but that's a very good one. I'm going to have to remember it. Regarding what we are discussing, inclusive growth globally, it is important that we know if we want to work for inclusiveness, we have to work in that direction. Regulation of financial markets, continuing to work for reducing tax avoidance and loopholes and so on, and that direction, and not in the opposite direction. Maybe you can make some short-term efforts, but even in regulating the remuneration of banking managers, we have agreed all that the short-term profit must not be the reason for getting bonuses and the long-term profit. And that is even for major economies, very important. We should not rely on short-term maximization, but on sustainability, and we will continue to work so, and I am quite optimistic that we will be successful. So not, you never need support, and you have seen the Chinese president has been a strong advocate of free trade, therefore things are going in the right direction globally. I'm quite optimistic. Excellent. As long as you never eat as hot as it is cooked, you never eat anything as hot as it is cooked. Keep that in mind. Administrator Jovnik, would you give us the perspective on the new administration from Argentina? On the U.S.? Yes, on the U.S. And what do you see, what is the impact of the new policies that we're likely to see from the Trump administration? Well, for you. For me, I will agree with Mr. Shoble. It's too early. We do not know what announcements will produce the new president. So we don't have a formal position until now. But every country is free to choose its own policies. In the case of Argentina, we will embrace globalization. We are very, very convinced about that. The results of an isolated economy, that was the one that we had in the last 15 years, or I would say maybe 50 or 60 with some exceptions in the middle, were dramatic for us in terms of growth. Argentina diverged in terms of growth, in terms of its capacity to bring the population out of poverty. And in my view, closing the economy was one of the main reasons for that. But the departing point for Argentina is such that we cannot criticize anyone, because we are one of the closest economy of the world. Still, for example, our share of imports of consumer goods in our consumption basket is less than one percent. So basically, Argentina is a totally closed economy today. We are opening up it. We remove almost all the barriers with the rest of the world, but still we have tariffs that are very high. So we are departing from a point in which we are still very close. So that puts us in a position in which it's very difficult to criticize other countries, which are moving from a very open economy to slight movements on the opposite direction. So we are very humble on that. But we really acknowledge that, for us, the experiment of trying to avoid competition, to avoid the process of openness that all the world was carrying after the Second World War was not good for Argentina. Thank you for that. Minister Gordon. Let me put it differently. It's too early to comment on tweeted policy. Why is it too early to comment? I mean, you know, we've got to tweet every five minutes. So let's wait until we see formal policy positions. But on the other hand, we can talk about expectations of the new administration. And in the G20 context, we all have the experience of what collective determination and collective action can do to lift global growth to save us from the Great Recession and to ensure that all economies benefited at the right time when needed in the 2009, say, 2011 period. And the world today requires the same kind of collective action and the responsive and responsible leadership that we are talking about at WEF today. As the biggest economy in the world, our expectation would be that the United States plays the same role, together with the European Union and others, to lift global growth, to give content to what inclusivity means, to create the right frameworks for the rest of us, for genuine inclusivity for citizens, as I indicated earlier on, and create the basis for all of the work that my colleagues are talking about on the financial sector regulation on infrastructure. We were just told about a whole lot of decisions we made in 2011. Mr. Shobla and others will remember that about what we would do as the G20, but it's still lying on the shelf. So there's work to do in that regard as well. The second expectation is that, I mean, even the UK's position, I think, if we can say so as outsiders in this battle between the UK and the EU, is more bargaining position than anything else. So I'm sure Mr. Shobla and his colleagues are going to have a lot of fun about what level corporate taxes should be pitched at. And they are the ones who've been telling all of us for the last 15 years or so, don't engage in harmful tax competition because it doesn't benefit anybody. Now our expectation as emerging markets would be people in the North don't engage in harmful tax competition. But more importantly, pay your taxes where they do. And I think that's the big challenge around the world in order to get the fiscal balances right. That multinational corporations and leaders in multinational corporations require to be responsive and responsible and make sure that they pay their taxes in the countries in which those profits are made. And that the practices of tax evasion and let's call it aggressive tax planning, which falls under the BEPS heading that we've all agreed upon at the G20, is something that declines. And of course, here you've got to include the lawyers, the accountants, the tax planners and others as well, who must be infused with this inclusive mentality and mindset as well. The third expectation, certainly from an African continent position, is don't damage trade because trading with the biggest economy in the world is important for many countries on the African continent as it is for other emerging markets as well. So as my colleague opens up the economy in Argentina, they would want to trade with the United States. And I think what we need, just as much as we want fair tax rules around the world, we also want fair trade rules around the world, where there need to be adaptations and changes because of a different philosophical outlook, let that actually happen. But don't damage the growth potential in developing countries, which is quite crucial to inclusivity at the end of the day by parochial interests in a very important part of the world. And those are the expectations that I think the new administration needs to hear. And I'm sure that in the G20 we'll create the opportunity for that. You raise a very interesting point. Do you agree, Minister Shemsek, and what do you think the impact of the new administration's policies will be on Turkey? Well, I do agree that protectionism is bad for global economy, is bad for emerging markets. Trade and globalization has been an engine of global growth. So clearly that is an issue if it is followed up, followed through. Secondly, some of the mixed signals seem to suggest that dollar may strengthen further, not that that's a desired policy outcome. And that would also be pretty bad news for emerging markets in general. As far as Turkey is concerned, EU 10 times matters more than the United States, as far as trading partner is concerned, because EU accounts for about 50% of our trade in our exports. US accounts for roughly about 5%. So for us EU matters more. And we're delighted that the European Commission has given, go ahead, the green light for upgrading the customs union, to expand it to agriculture, services, and public procurement. That could easily double trade volume between Turkey and EU over a decade or so from about $150 billion to $300 billion. It's good for EU. It's good for Turkey. So in that sense, we're not that concerned. Of course, in general, obviously that would be a negative policy mix. But we're not that concerned about the stated protectionist tendencies. What we would be concerned, of course, if there's clearly, raised to the bottom in terms of taxes and stuff like that, because emerging markets still need investments. We need FDI in flows. So essentially threatening companies not to invest abroad clearly is an issue in general for emerging markets. We just hope that that's not the case in practice. We can hope. So as far as US is concerned, limited trade exposure. But we are hoping that US will continue to be engaged with rest of the world in terms of combating terrorism, extremism. And Middle East is where really stronger US commitment, as well as European commitment is needed. Because it is a region that has been in state of chaos. And it has significant implications for global economy in terms of migration, refugees, in terms of global terror. I think there was by some international, whatever, terrorism database that terrorism is costing almost 18% of global GDP or something like that. Directly, indirectly, it's a big number. But so we're looking forward, actually, to work with the United States in a more constructive fashion in terms of addressing the problem that exists in the Middle East, in particular in Syria, Iraq, and elsewhere, which has been, again, a big drag on Turkey, on Turkish economy. Thank you for that. I'd like to turn to the audience and give you all a chance to come into the conversation. I just want, I would just like Minister Shorblood before to comment on Brexit. Theresa May issued what was seen as a warning earlier this week. She said, a punitive deal that punishes Britain would be an act of calamitous self-harm for the countries of Europe. What's your reaction to that? Are you seeking to punish Britain? No, I don't think that we want to punish UK. And the position of Germany, German government, has been from the very beginning, from the first day after the Brexit decision of the British people. So we will not punish Britain. I think we have not been happy on this decision. We are convinced that it's not in the interest of UK, neither in the interest of Europe. Therefore, our position is to limit, to minimize the damages for UK as well as for Europe. And that is what we, will be our position in the beginning negotiations as soon as they start. And I think I am not a friend of too much rhetoric. And of course, before you start negotiations, you make always, you show your muscles and so, okay. Since we know, since we know each other very well, we know we have to find solutions. I think we, we are, I got at the, at the calendar, we are living in the year 2017. And the world is not as the world used to be 100 years ago or something like that. If you, if we want to, to make our economy stable, which, and, and there is a link between open society and, and, and the market economy as well. And, and that is what, that has been the way even in, in the ongoing development in 2020 is that we have worked with, with all the difficulties. It was no, it was a different situation. But we all agreed that the direction must be to for, for more growth, inclusive growth and sustainability, which includes by the way, of course, a better distribution than to avoid all this exaggerations in, in, in any regard. And that is what we're going for now. And Europe is complex. And therefore the negotiation will be funny. You are totally right. But having said this, I, I don't see, we will, we will do the best to make the relations between UK economy, Europe economy, the relations between UK and Europe as close as possible. We will do our very best to have a good cooperation, even with a financial center, a global financial center in London, London is an important place and will remain an important place as a financial center. But of course, some, some consequences are given passporting to, to the EU, to the common market is no longer an asset. Therefore we have to work and that is a difficult work. And even if you rely on trade agreements, I often listen to UK voices or we have CTA office, Canada. The trade agreement doesn't relate financial services, doesn't include financial services. Therefore to negotiate, so the adequacy of, of regulations for financial goods and services and products and the financial markets is a very difficult and sophisticated thing and requires a lot of time. And therefore we will, we will see what will happen in the negotiation. But I think we should not start the negotiation in threatening each other. And we know everyone has his muscles, but no one muscle as strong as they would like to have the muscles. From a developing country perspective, can they do all this very quickly, please, so that we can, we can remove the answer. I'll make sure to get your message. Just a quick remark. I agree, but it's not only to us. Coming from Argentina and seeing this divorce from outside, I would say that it seems that something is going on in the most advanced world with unskilled labor. I think that most of the anti-globalization movements have a relationship with the very predictable results of Stolper Samuelson in terms of what happens in countries with abundant capital. So my focus is that if we don't find the solution in terms of investing in human capital to prevent the problem that we're facing with advance of technology and skilled labor, we will be paying in terms of globalization something that comes from technological improvement. So I would like to put that in focus. That's a very good point. Let me take a few questions and then we'll go back to the panel for the final take. Let's go ahead. Lee Wei from Tsai-Shin Media. So question mainly for Mr. Shoebler and Gordon. So do you expect President Trump going to the G20 summit this year? Even if he goes, will that be the case that the U.S. is focusing on itself to be more inclusive and more sustainable in its growth while the other 19 countries, mainly dominant by Germany and China, doing the cooperation scene? Thanks. Sure. Let me take a couple more. The lady here. Yes, please. Good morning, Isabel Saimano, Vice President and Minister of Foreign Affairs of Panama. I'd like to mention two things that have been said I think are very, very important from the developing countries perspective. The role that the G20 feels they have in preventing crisis and promoting stability around the world is very valued by developing countries. And as we understand the importance of collecting taxes to finance our own development and the importance of helping globally with that fight in Panama has taken many steps that can show in how we contribute in that direction. I would like to highlight two issues that have also been said and are very important. Companies and the necessity of companies paying taxes where they operate and how important this is for developing countries. And the second issue is the flows of financial direct investment and what BEPS can have as a negative consequence in that regard to developing countries. And I was wondering if the G20 would have these type of issues among their discussions as a way of promoting stability, not only in terms of regulating but in terms of what happens to developing countries if they are not able to finance their own development. Thank you. Let me take one more question and then we'll do a second round. There was a gentleman over there, please. Thank you, Yasir. You have high interest rate environment, stronger dollar, pressure and commodities, protectionism. Where do you see the growth catalyst? Where is growth coming from? Thank you. Thank you. Who would like to begin? Minister Shorham? Yeah. Maybe I should start in answering the question not what do we feel on this change in the U.S. administration for our G20 presidency. I think on the level of the working framework, and you know G20 is in the finance strike, it's an ongoing process. We are preparing, of course, we are always related to the summit, but the work has to be done in the finance and ISP will be done and ISP has been done in the finance strike continuously. We started already with the seminar in early December after taking over presidency from China to Germany and we are working continuously. Next week we have invited to a conference for digitalization and the influence on digitalization was one of the parts. Therefore, at the working level, the U.S. is remaining a very important part of the G20. Therefore, I'm quite relaxed. I think we will, of course, we have, in some regards, we get questions what will be the position of incoming president, but for the substance, we will continue. I'm quite optimistic. We have another problem, I have to be frank. The timetable for our presidency is a little bit limited by the fact that we have general elections in Germany and in September. Therefore, we will have the G20 summit early in summer, not only in autumn. Therefore, we will have the finance ministers meeting as a loan standing with central bank governors already in March. Of course, we will meet by occasion of IMF session always. We meet each other in the G20 several times a year. As finance minister, we meet normally five, six, seven times a year. And our deputies and our experts meet even often in continuous work together and United States people lying in, of course, included. And therefore, I'm quite optimistic. We will manage it. We will not face so much problems of it. Look, U.S. is one of the leading, very diplomatic, one of the leading powers of the world, politically, economically, and so on. And I got the president-elect that he wants to make U.S. stronger. If you want to make a world superpower stronger, you cannot reduce their capacity to lead the world. Otherwise, you would make this world superpower weaker. That is not what the president-elect has announced. Therefore, I'm a little bit optimistic and relaxed. I think that's it. I would like to come to the third question as well. What does it mean, BEPS, for developing economies? We have in any discussion between federal bank governors and finance ministers on BEPS initiative. By the way, BEPS initiative has been started years ago under Mexican presidency by the same British Chancellor of the Secretary and the same German Finance Minister who is still the same. The Chancellor of the Secretary has changed, but the German is still... We have launched BEPS, but in any discussion, we have immediately discussed what is the influence and the relation for developing countries, how we can include them. We have done it in a lot of regards, the automatic exchange of information and all that. One of the major issues is to assist, especially developing countries, to build reliable tax administrations. We have to help the developing countries to get revenues by taxes. That's not only a matter of legislation. It's a matter of the capacity to do ice taxes. We are working for partnerships, even for assistance program, because we have totally right if we want to make this BEPS initiative globally to really deliver good results, we need even for some inclusively for all parts of global economy. And therefore, we have to build reliable tax administrations, that is a precondition. And that is of course also a matter to fight corruption. It's a matter to fight corruption. It's a matter to finance national budgets in a proper way, in a way which can be accepted by the population in a social fair way. And that is a precondition to enhance inclusiveness in national societies. If you have now an efficient tax system, it's very difficult to do so. Thank you minister. Perhaps you could take up the question of where will growth come from? Yes. It'd be great if all of you could comment on it. The comment from the panel was what is going to be the catalyst because he mentioned that rates are high, protectionism is high and we have a strong dollar. And I would tend to disagree because even when rates are slightly higher than two months ago, well, real rates are at the lowest level that we've ever seen. I don't know, in the entire history of the last 50 or 60, I don't know. Since I know the data, we never had such low level of real rates. Protectionism where we are concerned about the rise of protectionism that still didn't materialize. So I think that it's too early to call that we are entering into an era of protectionism. While maybe we are going to face a strong dollar, we still don't know, what I think is that most of the world in the last 20 years implemented regimes and especially in the emerging markets of floating exchange regimes that make them very well prepared to cope with a strong dollar without facing a crisis while all the balance sheets of the emerging market economies turn to have a very big proportion of local debts on the balance sheet. So I think that the world that we will be facing in the next few years will not be as different as the one that we saw in the recent past. So drivers should be the same of the last few years, productivity, good quality of policies, transparency, corruption, fight, legal protection, rule of law, and those are going to be the catalysts because on the macro side, I don't see such big changes right now. I mean, in addition to that, I think we need to draw the relationship between investment and the climate for investment, both for local capital and foreign capital. Secondly, investment leads, if it's in the right quarters, leads to growth. Growth should lead to higher levels of revenue. Then comes the point of tax administration and the compliance culture that you have in a particular society. I think what we saw in the 2008, 2009, 2010 period is even in Southern Europe, there were countries that had, and this happens in many parts of the developing world, low compliance levels by the middle classes and the rich. And unless that compliance culture changes, you can have as good a tax administration as you like, but the taxes won't actually come in. And then finally, the issue of fiscal policy and how that begins to assist the right areas of growth in a particular country. At the end of the day, apart from the micro factors, it's about understanding the local economy, making sure that you become effective at both local consumption and trade, and inclusivity itself and the rise in per capita income will begin to generate a new class of consumers, which will have new demands, which will create or demand new production capabilities within an economy and itself become a driver of growth on a global basis, but within countries as well. Thank you. Unfortunately, we have run out of time, so I'd like to give Minister Shemchak the last word. Well, thank you. I guess if you look at aging population, high debt burden and this talk of protectionism, one would think that next 50 years may not be as good as past 50 years, but we are on the verge of a new industrial revolution. And what it really means, how quickly the world adapts to this new environment where people may not have to work type stuff. So, I mean, I know it's probably way down the road, but in the short term, global growth is already at around 3%. And this is the first year where IMF in eight years is not feeling that it has to downgrade their own initial guesstimates or estimates. So that's good news. That means we are at the bottom anyway somewhat. And I think where growth will come from, clearly, US is an important engine. If US can add some sort of fuel and grow faster, that should help at the margins. China sustaining its current growth rate is going to be critical, but low commodity prices does constrain emerging markets, dollar strength constraints. Last few years, we've seen significant outflows from emerging markets. If these were to slow, it would certainly help. So it's really a mixed picture as to whether we're going to be doing better than what we have been doing recently. And we're not doing that well. We're stuck in low growth, low inflation. So let's see how things work out. Well, that's a rather optimistic note. I'm happy to have heard the last word. I'm happy to have seen that it's a bit more optimistic. I apologize to those who wanted to ask questions. I'm afraid we need to be very punctual at the web, and we have run out of time. Please join me in thanking our panel.