 responsibility, the evolution of corporate social responsibility. Here on Think Tech with Cisco, area sales manager, Isabella Yanni and Terry Yanni. They know each other really well. And he's a cybersecurity specialist with Cisco. And it's so nice to have him on the show. Thank you for joining us today, Isabella and Terry. Thanks so much for having us, Terry. It's great to be here. So as you may have noticed, the big news was is and probably will continue to be Roe v. Wade. And Cisco is in healthcare, healthcare data processing, healthcare of all kinds of nations. I remember when it went into that, everybody said, wait a minute, that's what Cisco did switches. You know, under the ground, under the roadway, now it's doing healthcare, that's flexibility. So Cisco does stuff that sometimes surprises you and for what, 15 or 20 years, it's been doing healthcare. So the question is, you know, learning from your experience and your perspective at Cisco, what can states like Hawaii, like California, do to deal with the becoming wave of Republican attempts in various states to undermine, you know, the liberal view of abortion? Who wants to go first? Isabella? Sure, why not? So I just want to caveat this by saying that while we're introduced, you know, with our titles and both working for Cisco, I want to be careful that some of the views I'm gonna probably let loose here are personal and don't represent necessarily Cisco as a whole. But one of the things that I love about working at a place like Cisco, and you'll see a lot of the big tech companies have come out with statements in the last week because of the Dodds ruling in support of individuals still being able to make individual decisions, individual healthcare reproductive decisions that are right for them in their personal lives, regardless of what this federal ruling changes for the state's ability to make those changes. And this is something that's deeply personal to me. You know, I'm a woman, we have a daughter who is, you know, about to enter puberty and a whole host of other things that come along with that and I think there are many women that are just reeling right now with the prospect that we're not just going back to a time that's pre-weighed, we are going to somewhere far worse because now women's personal decisions and what they do with their bodies is gonna be legislated much more than they were before the question of whether or not abortion should be legal was asked and answered for 50 years with the precedent of road be weighed, right? So it is a scary time. And I think that working for a big company like Cisco, the benefit is that our executive leadership team immediately came out with a statement to say, hey, as part of leading an inclusive community of employees, we wanna make sure that people can show up as their best selves and that you can feel supported in still being able to make those right decisions for you, even if you happen to reside in a state where access to reproductive healthcare and abortion is no longer legal, we're gonna support you to go get the right healthcare that you need, even if that includes traveling to a different state, staying in that other state for a while, we're gonna support you financially with the time that you need through your healthcare plan access, all of those things. And that is one of the reasons why after 17 years I still love working at Cisco, which in the tech world, staying at a place that long is pretty unusual. So sorry for the long answer, but had to give a little bit of the context and background too. Well, you touched me about Cisco. I mean, that is so kind, so nice, so touching. I actually get an emotional reaction here when you answer that question. Good for Cisco. We need a lot, we need them all. We need them all to step up that way and deal with this, that case is not popular. The reversal of Roe v. Wade is not popular. And we know also that major corporations in this country have the ability, both on the technical side and on the financial side. And for that matter, on all sides, to help people deal with impossible court cases like this. So what else, in the tech side for a moment, Isabel, what else can Cisco or other companies similarly situate and what can they do to help people, data processing? I don't know what, from your perspective. You know, I think about some of the other conversations that we've had in previous Think Tech episodes where we've talked about, you know, the idea of Big Brother watching what you're doing and how in some ways that's a good thing. Like if I am driving through downtown Honolulu and I have an app that shows me where there's an available parking spot, I like that. I like that part of Big Brother watching because I like to live my life efficiently. But there are other parts of it and especially now in relation to the overturning of Roe V. Wade where that gets a lot scarier. So I think a great example of that, and this isn't a place where Cisco necessarily plays, but just in general in tech, there, you know, we all, our lives are ruled by applications. Companies run on applications. We interact with applications all day, every day, whether we think we do or not, we do. And one place that this decision now is making a lot of women think twice about how they interact with applications is apps that track your menstruation cycle. So there are lots of apps out there that women use to be able to track what's going on in their, you know, in their personal health lives. And now we're finding that in, you know, the 20 or 20 to 22 states that are most likely to ban abortion immediately, using apps like that could actually put you in danger to have companies or to have people go after you because they're gonna say, oh no, you intentionally tried to stop your pregnancy or whatever the case may be. That is a really scary and dangerous area that we're venturing into. And there are a lot of warnings. There are so many podcast episodes right now talking about why women should be really careful about what they're interacting with and what they're using now. And to me that's a really sad state of affairs. And it also is a signal that for the tech world, companies need to be taking this seriously. We need to be thinking about how we're building applications to serve people's needs, but also not put them in danger for potentially being prosecuted for making personal decisions. Well, this is a perfect segue for Terry now. Cyber security, privacy. If I know that people who would like to punish me under some of these statutes in the 22 states or more wanna get information about my plans, my plans to travel, my plans to try to get an abortion in some other friendlier state, what can we do to keep that private, really private? Is it possible that the tech industry can step in and help us? I think the tech industry can absolutely step in with the tools, but you gotta remember the policy is what's important here. So I think from our perspective, we do have the tools to ensure some level of data privacy, data security, to make sure that information that's supposed to be private stays private, but there has to be policy around that. And unfortunately that policy does have to come from the government or from other organizations outside of the tech industry. So I think we should all be wary of, and this is where, again, I wanna make sure I'm representing my personal opinion. This is where elections matter. This is where your vote counts. This is where if you have something to say and you want to have some type of change or effect on policy, then you need to take action. Outside of that, absolutely. There are tools out there that we can leverage to protect your personal information and your privacy, but again, always, always reside on policy. Now that takes us to another major issue, this pending Supreme Court, the Supreme Court, such as it is, has already made some steps backward on voting. And a lot of people predict that we'll make additional steps backward on voting. And I was telling you before the show that what, five years ago you and I had a show about cybersecurity and online voting. And we talked about that. And I was watching that show, which I thought was really good. And I realized that in all this conversation over the past few years about, ballots and not ballots, April ballots versus absentee ballots versus standing in the rain ballots. They never talked about, in the last few years, they never talked about electronic ballots online. It seems to have gotten lost in all of the political conversations. But isn't that still an option? Should we be thinking about electronic balloting now when voting is in such contention? I think that's an interesting proposition. And I think about some of the security tool that we have in place. And when we talk about having our most secure elections ever, it would be interesting if you could vote from your phone using biometrics for multi-factor authentication to prove that you are who you say you are with several factors of authentication, one being a biometric either your face as your iPhone might do or your thumbprint. And then of course the information that you know, a username and a password or a profile that you've set up. I think that could be potentially even more secure. It would be a very interesting way to go about it. But I don't. Again, I feel like we're hamstrung by policy and that's something that does have to change. And you do hear a lot of buzz about we want to make our elections even more secure. I think this would be an interesting way to do it. And it would be interesting to have a test group of some sort that are well-known to participate in such a thing. Yeah, you hear that boys and girls? You heard it right here on Think Tech. Not only did you hear it on Think Tech from Terry Unnie today, you heard it on Think Tech from Terry Unnie five years ago. There's a continuity involved in all of that. Well, Isabella, this takes us to a larger issue. And it's the issue of this. Years ago, somebody from MIT came to Hawaii to speak and she was an economist and she said, you've got to follow the money. I mean, for example, you don't look at the global policy. What really counts is the money, the trade, the transfer of funds between one country and another. And that's mostly through global corporations rather than government. And so, you know, talk about Terry's policy. Policy on a global basis is more and more through major global corporations. And I would say that Cisco is one of them. But there are obviously many others. And I'd like to discuss with you the whole notion of these large corporations who adopt, you know, impact investors, who attract impact investors and adopt social responsibility policies because they can do more and they don't have to go through two houses, count them two, houses of Congress, in order to get, you know, policy decided. What about that? And don't you think that large corporations, multinational corporations, can and should do more to make a better world for us all? Yeah, absolutely. I think, I mean, I think we can't over, we have to be careful to say, well, you know, that we can affect all of this policy through Cisco. I certainly think that these large corporations are lobbying on behalf of very important causes and putting their money where their mouth is. Like, it is undeniable that when you have more diverse teams, you have better outcomes. There is so much data that shows that more diversity on teams will lead to better outcomes. And the reason that I share this is because my experience has been and our experience at Cisco has been that there is a strong commitment at Cisco to invest in the causes that will, that are supportive of minorities who don't have the resources to go out and fight some of these big fights on their own. They need a company like Cisco and all these other great big tech companies who have the resources to put into fantastic causes like the Equal Justice Fund, like putting quite a bit of funding towards historically black colleges and universities because a survey was done that showed that a lot of their tech was outdated and Cisco put forth, I don't remember the exact amount of money, but an incredible amount of money, both in funding as well as in hardware and technology to help bring those places up to speed. And this corporate social responsibility, I think, in investing in causes that will create more equality and equity so that more people have access to the right opportunities. That, I mean, that's what we're talking about when we're talking about a progressive future and creating an inclusive and diverse workforce is really supporting those things. And I think that's the same reason why you see our executive leadership team come out with a statement immediately saying, hey, to all of those people in our workforce who were born with a uterus and need to make healthcare decisions accordingly, we're gonna support you whatever your decision is, if you need to go do something like that. And I think big companies that have this power definitely are, most of them are putting them, putting that power in the right place. But the other thing that's so important, and back to Terry's point is, we have to get everybody out there to vote because it is so bizarre to me that we are living in 2022 when 61% of the country believes that all abortion should be legal in all or most cases. And yet we find ourselves being thrown back to a time when women truly are not equal anymore. But it is insane to me, it's mind boggling to me. So for our company to be able to do that, I feel very honored and privileged to be part of the company that where I get that kind of support. But really we need to mobilize and get everybody out there to vote so that everybody has that. You shouldn't have to work for a big company to be able to have access to something like this. We raised so many questions, go ahead Terry. Yeah, I'd just like to add a comment. We are definitely delving into personal perspective and some of the commentary here and I wanna make sure we walk that line very carefully. But I would like to make a personal comment about social responsibility of corporations. I noticed a fairly seismic shift at Cisco. I wanna say about eight years ago where they decided to take on some really, well navigate I should say, some really, really challenging rough waters. And it's been interesting to see how our executive leadership team does navigate those waters and take on that responsibility and try to make it a fair space for all. People do have different opinions and we wanna try and support all of those opinions and keep that as inclusive as possible. As Isabella said, the diversity brings better outcomes for us as a team, but it also makes you feel valued as an employee and that when I come to work, I come to work for a company that's making a difference. I come to work for a company where I can make a difference. And because of that, I'm a much happier, much more productive employee because I feel like I'm making a contribution to something greater than what we produce in terms of products. And what that says to me is that, A, some companies like Cisco and I'm thinking of Disney over the gender issue in Florida, do you remember? And they face down to the standards of the government. I thought that was really noble of them. And there are a lot of other big companies and not only tech, but companies like Disney Entertainment are capable of setting a standard, a social standard and we need more of that. And your point about setting a social standard that appeals to the best and the brightest and attracts and keeps the best employees is where you as a global company want to go because you'll do better with, the most important resource is the human resource. And if you attract the best human resources, your company will be more profitable. And it does affect the old bottom line standard for sure. And that takes me, Isabella, to the whole thing about 80 hours of service, volunteer services. Tell me how that program works and what it means to Cisco. Yeah, so one of the things that I think is really incredible is that Cisco gives every full-time employee 80 hours of paid time to give. So it's called time to give and you can use that time so that you don't have to record PTO time or take vacation days or take an unpaid day to go volunteer for a cause that you believe in. You can actually take that as time to give and go spend time giving back to a cause that is really important to you. And different people use these times in different ways. You can, we've done that as a team and gone to work at the food bank or work for my personal favorite is Habitat for Humanity. I really, really love just the thought of putting a roof over a family's head. And oftentimes the people who are going to be homeowners of that home are working on the job site with you. You get to know them and you get to feel this immense sense of pride that you're building a house that a family is going to live in that you've interacted with. I think that's absolutely incredible but there are so many amazing causes and that's the other thing you can use it for really any cause that you want to. You can also use it to volunteer at your child's school or whatever the case may be. And to be able to take two weeks, 10 work days to go and volunteer for a cause is I think another way that the company is saying we want you to bring your best selves to work. And we also know that I think for me personally in times like these where it feels like there are a lot of things going on in the world that are very hard to digest. One of the best ways to feel better is to give to others, to give back to your community and to engage in that positive kind of work. And so I think to me that's time to give is just another way that the company is saying, hey, we want you to bring your best selves to work. And sometimes that means not coming to work actually going and doing this other thing and we're still going to pay you while you're doing that. Which is wonderful. So Terry, what's the effect, the implication of that in a larger sense? Cisco's doing it. I don't know if any other companies are doing it but let's say for a moment that all of them do it, that they all follow Cisco's lead and they all suggest to their employees you can take off 80 hours and work for a charity. And they get a kind of honest response where people actually go and do that. And here we are in the country where we're kind of in an inflection point about do I care for my neighbor or not? Do I care for diversity, for kindness, all those good things? What effect does this kind of thing happen? Suppose I made every company or allowed every company, every employee to do this, how does that change the national ethic? Yeah, I think there's a couple of factors. I think there's the first one I would definitely mention is we're very fortunate to be employed in the world that we have and have a company that cares as much about the employees and their wellbeing as we do, but it gives us the opportunity to get back. And I think that that's extremely, extremely important when you are fortunate enough to be in this position, to have that avenue or that path to give back and to try and bring others up. Also, I want to, in the second factor, I think it's really important for your mental health. And I say that because, and we do have a big focus on mental health, but I think it's important for your mental health given the current circumstances. I don't want to say post-pandemic. I mean, tell me where we're at in the stage of the pandemic, but due to the several years of mental wear and tear that everyone's gone through during the pandemic, I think it's also very important to invest in yourself. And then an example I would give is, you could do great things like Habitat for Humanity to give back to help people less fortunate have a place to live. I think those are great things to do. Or you can also take maybe one Friday a month to work at an animal shelter involvement tier to take care of animals. If that's what really helps fill your bucket and keep you going. It encourages charitable giving of the first order, doesn't it? I mean, you put your time down and your thought process and whatever skills you have, you put them down to help the community. It's community is what it is. Okay, and that takes me to another question that you mentioned in passing and that is COVID. So Isabella, COVID has changed our world. It's still changing our world. And large corporations have adopted and then changed and then re-changed and re-adopted all kinds of policies that are working at home. And I'm wondering where Cisco's leadership has taken its employees, but also where we all should be going in the future, given the technology we have and which we have developed with Zoom and Skype and WebEx and so forth. What does the future look like in terms of working for home and where has Cisco's leadership taken it? Yeah, well, I think this is such a great place to highlight the fact that both Terry and I work and when we're at our full-time jobs, we work in a city that no longer has the Cisco office and we both work from our home offices. And it's not just you're working from home, it's really kind of working, having the ability to work from anywhere in a secure fashion and still be really productive. And I just, there's so much about this topic that has been also in the news, right? Companies are trying to call their employees back to the office and the employees are saying, no, why? I don't want to spend time on my commute. I don't want to have to wear real pants to go to work anymore. I like wearing pajama pants and a dress shirt and being just as productive from anywhere else. So I think it's a very, very interesting fine line because for 14 years, I went to the same office, I parked in the same parking spot and I went into the office, I badged in in the morning, I badged out at the end of the day and I was very productive. And now that we suddenly shifted in March of 2020 to the only working remotely, I can tell you with 100% certainty, my productivity has not changed. In fact, in some ways it might have gone up because I'm not spending time in the car, I'm not doing those other things. And what is undeniable is that the future of work is hybrid 100%. There will continue to be people who have to go into an office or to choose to go into an office and there will still be people who choose to participate from some other location. And when we say the future of work is hybrid, it means thinking really intentionally about creating meetings and interactions that work both for people in person and people who are dialing in over video. And that, I just hosted my first team all hands with my new organization. We're including about 35 people in this meeting, more than half of those people were in person but we had folks who were dialing in and who were participating over video and it was more work for me. It was harder for me to figure out, okay, how do I make sure the people who are dialing and are having a good experience on this and are engaging? That's one place that technology can make a really big difference. Cisco's WebEx is second to none with the type of technologies that we have to make the in-person experience and the virtual experience really great. But also you wanna make sure that those experiences are secured, right? That nobody's hacking into your meeting or Zoom bombing or doing whatever the case is to disrupt it because you want a really excellent experience but at the end of the day, every company out there has to accept that the future of work is hybrid, people want to work remote and the faster people can get on board with that, the faster companies can get on board with supporting employees like that, the better their options are for hiring the best talent regardless of where they're located. Yeah, and you, Cisco and other companies similarly situated have to see and examine and evaluate and project these changes because having WebEx or Skype or Zoom requires a different configuration of the switches and the cables under the street. We have to make sure we can serve as all these people who are doing those meetings. And also we find that these office buildings downtown in every city in the country don't need as much space. So things are changing and we all have to keep up with that. Kerry, I want to ask you one more question based on a couple of references you made to public policy. And so it's like, what can we do as employees, as stockholders, as managers of tech companies? What can we do as the elected representatives, I mean, to the extent that we are genuine in our willingness to serve the public? What can we do to make public policy that will proceed down these paths? The three of us have been talking about today. That is a very, very loaded question. I'm gonna start with a very simple answer. I think your voice is your vote. That's the first thing, your voice is your vote. But beyond that, to partake in organizations that can actually influence change. So if there's an organization out there that you know can influence change in a cause that you wanna fight for, I think that's something you absolutely have to sign up for and take the first step. Take the first step towards actually making a difference because one voice may not make all of the difference but combined with some of the power of the chorus of voices, it absolutely can make a change. And I think you see that across the country in all different forms. So I think the simplest answer is take action. If I had to just take action in whatever way you can and whatever way you're comfortable with. And I hear- I never thought of tech answer. But I hear the unstated word in the middle is take collective action. And collective action means so much more than individual and just me action. And so company like Cisco can help me do that. Can help me organize my collective action which is I think a very important part of tomorrow's America. Mr. Billa, I saw you agreeing or maybe disagreeing with what Terry said. You're free to do that, you know, here on Think Tech. What would you add to what Terry said? The only thing I would add is as a people leader, so, you know, I manage teams of people and at times felt like I have to be quiet about feeling a certain way about what's going on in our world. And what I realized is actually, you know, if I'm speaking for myself, I'm gonna be outspoken about the things that are happening right now and where I think we're getting it wrong. And I may lose some people, but it's also my responsibility to make sure they feel like people with differing opinions can come to the table and we can have a respectful conversation that's productive where we're hearing each other. But at the end of the day, what I've noticed is when I'm outspoken about those things, I have more people reaching out to me saying, thank you so much for using your voice. You know, the fake power that comes along with having a bigger title, some can be used for good. And part of that is inspiring others to also take a stand and to say, hey, it's okay for me to feel outraged right now. It's okay for me to want to go make a change. It's okay for me to go make my voice be heard and be part of that collective group that's gonna speak up together and make a bigger difference together. Isabel Yanni, Terry Yanni, members of the New America having an effect on the development, needed development of our corporate culture and our national culture. I envy you, your opportunities to do that. Thank you so much, Isabella and Terry. Aloha. Thank you for having us, Jay.