 I'm sorry we are eight minutes late, but I will just quickly present others to you and I'll talk about Debbie and mid and after he does basically the Same thing what I do for medical care or schools on a much more advanced level and why They are much more at once and we in the medical care. I will try to explain now Just for the rumors. I'm not a doctor. I'm just studied physics and I'm Working in a medical Institute by chance and so I try to Make something which my people convince to start Linux in my institute. So What do I want to talk about? At first, I want to give some all of you How our custom given distribution there was I You see I will introduce you in the dark side and the bright side. So there are two sides in this project Then I want to say something about Things people are are thinking about this project. They often think well We just are doing some programming stuff to manage a medical practice, but we do not And then I want to give some Prospectors what we can expect from the project in the future. Oh, well, I hope to be able to manage So just for the history Well, people tend to have fun all the time you see it is that conf one greetings from four years ago Well, it was basically a similar event But it was in Bordeaux and so we had some very good wine It's not so typical for Finland and we enjoyed it. There are several deviant people But I think they are Different from I think I'm the only one on this picture who joined this event, but Most of them are active If you happen to know him and You see people are doing always the same first have some line and then start hacking and do something reasonable In fact, what is the condition of the relation to deviant meet? at this event, I had basically the idea to start because I took part in the medical Session of this event it was not only deviant conference It was plugged in into the pro software meeting and they did some user-related Sessions and there was also the medical session and I observed how some French people who do not really good speak English Tries to translate Installing instructions of the medical program and so I was thinking about what are these people doing? Why do they need installing instructions of a program? Normally, we do not have to read it because we have a package and just install this package and perhaps you need to read Read me the deviant or whatever, but installing instructions are crappy. You don't want Use you don't not have to translate some just translate the application to get the users work with it But not to have the administrator how to know how to install so after having some wine I was inspired and Prepared to talk for the next day because I had only eight hours left and I was quite late in the night Probably people were not singing at this evening and I was a little bit lucky so now For the history and now I want to say something about The things where we are good in Well, we have some Different topics in deviant meet. I'm trying to cover all topics which are useful for medical stuff and so the part of the genetics so how to Compare gene sequences or how to compare protein sequences is quite good and evolved in deviant meet we had some Package inside deviant once I started the project and so I just had a look at it and I Realized that they are basically orphaned. There was some guy from France who worked for a medical institute formally and so he cared for Biological stuff because I used it But then he switched his work and was not able to maintain this packages And that's why my first step was to take over this packages Updates the page and well, they are now maintained and we have no orphaned Biological packages inside deviant anymore with a kind of a to-do list what we have to include and I managed to get some application inside and after Some some months or so I was able to attract some other people's who are now Packaging the stuff they are this I got just one of these people has bones out Inside deviant and other two of them are in the new maintainer few Maybe they did not really reach the hug animal state if you have seen the new maintainer talk You know what I'm talking about so we have some quite important packages for biologists inside deviant and We have some other applications which are available as non-official packages for several reasons We have a deviant maintainer named in that hope who is also working in a medical institute who did very good work on very important microbiological applications, but he's quite overworked and so he was not able to to move it to the Debian tree and I tried to implement something like small groups to Work on these packages and move this a little bit forward the reason why we have So many packages on of microbiology inside deviant is just simple It is often developed by students and universities and they are doing programming of free software They got the idea and so we are quite good in this field It is quite of similar with a medical imaging We have some die-coms support if you are working in the medical field, you know, this is a format of the x-ray Images and so we are quite good here and we can have some kind of computer computer tomography simulator and also something to use the MNI medical image format if you want to know What exactly is the stuff? Please don't really ask me. I'm I do not really know it. I know it's important for medical stuff But as I said, I'm a physicist I try to care that people who are know what it is Maintain this stuff and that they are competent Now to the dark side well people Tend to think that they have made provides the practice practice management system and I have to admit Sorry, we do not have it now and the problem is we have one application at the horizon, which is GNU made and GNU made just released yesterday the 0.1 version it which is a better a very better stadium and their advice people not really to use it in production and To be realistic, it will last at least two years Until you can say well, this is fit for a medical practice. You can do it for your work. So the expectations are very high But free software does not live only from except expectations at least from work and people have to work first And then we have something We find a lot of Applications which claim to be able to manage a medical practice or even a hospital But if you look at the code if you look at the applications well They do not really work at least not in Environments like we would have in Germany. They are very strict rules. They are why There are laws how to How medical applications should work and so they did not fit this application do not fit this Rules and so we can not use it currently What is the reason for for this well You might know that Free software is basically written by users who just want to solve their own problem Oh, if I'm a doctor and I do not have any software for my practice. I Can either wine and sit down or buy something or I can Do something and start programming and some doctors did it But they forgot to write a really good program. You need some education about programming It's not enough to just study a php book and go for it but people tend to do that and there are some nice interfaces which are Translated in several languages. There's a for instance. There's this care-to-ics program and it was started by medical stuff in a hospital and It implements the workflow of this person and perhaps many people Like this program and I pushed it but then some Informaticians at the University of Ullum Try to enhance this program and they detected well we have to rewrite it completely because it does not scale for big hospitals and Also had a look at it and people tend to make the Following mistake they see oh, there's some kind of free software Just pick it up put it in our project picked another thing up and put it in a project So they did not get the idea of a Moderalized system so we would have duplicates of several pieces of software if you would Do it as the authors of the software want the worst example is this Tcl TK family practice. I've I've got this tower. It was 80 megabytes And I thought oh it was a very busy man who produced this this large program But what did he he just included a postgres server 6.5 whatever in source Objects files and compiled version in this tower. He take several other projects into this tower and everything I should Untoward to my disk and starts this program So it's completely useless because you have no no reasonable database set up and whatever all these programs are just Nothing space on your heart is so it doesn't work this way so One goal of Debian made is also to try to educate the authors of these programs to tell them well This is possible with free software, but this is not the sense to take it and put it in your project and fork and do whatever just try to get the sense and Make a modularized system So this was basically the problem of the quality of the upstream software and I do not know if we can solve this problem, but We just tried and The third problem is because people are doing this the way I described They cannot cooperate. There are several practice management system. I think kind of 10 or whatever and I asked them well, why don't you cooperate? Why don't you using the common database or so but a Common database needs some flexibility and some design which they haven't and so it's a little bit hard and It's just a problem that there are no so many not so many users if you have a critical user mess like for say file for So so everybody needs a browser and we have so many users and Among this much of users you find some skilled programmers and this works But it doesn't work for specialized applications and this is a problem. We have to face So how to see we deviant it Okay, at first I want to give some misconceptions about deviant mate. I Missed seven plus minus two rule just by one, but I think a top ten is also a good thing. So Please don't tell Enrico what I'm doing here Well, the first basic misconception is deviant mate is a practice management in itself No, it isn't The second misconception is it is only for doctors Well, as I said, I'm no doctor. We have many Biologists and chemists in our Institute and they're working for medical care. So it's a little bit larger this project and Because I was asked Well, you are doing this medical project and you are not you do not leave any space for Debian by a project Well, my answer was just start the deviant by a project and I immediately leave all the packages for you But this person who asked me did not start it So I just include the stuff as long as nobody else cares and if somebody wants it I have other things I can do Well Some people think that deviant mate is something different than deviant I hope I was able to make clear that the custom deviant distributions are completely inside deviant Because I do not have the time what I have not to have the power to make a separate Distribution with installs and whatever and security stuff So I decided to keep completely inside deviant and move everything I need into deviant and try to to change Deviant so that it fits my needs so People think often we as a deviant developers are starting programming. No, we don't we just build packages from existing software so Well free software some community effort we need helping helping ends we cannot do on our own and Everybody who wants to join the project Feel free to join us Once I had a talk For in an auditorium which was not really deviant related say well I'm from Germany and so in Germany Linux is equal to Susan They are running Linux 9.2 and Linux 9.3 or whatever So it's a little bit strange and so I was asked why don't you do this stuff for Susan? Well, this is the answer is simple And I'm not an employee of Susan I cannot influence the direction Susan is moving I can only do it for deviant and so if Susan decides to start Susan made whatever They can fairly use some ideas or try to do it. They can feel free, but I can't do Then there are people who think medical software Can never be free Well, I think any software can be free and you have to find reasons or or Means how to do it for free because the arguing is if there is some change in the law how to Do the Registrations of patients or whatever security things sometimes you have to be very quick in Changing your application. So my idea of deviant meet is we are doing it basically Not for the doctors or the users themselves, but we provide a useful tool For service companies the service companies could pick up all the stuff that they need from the internet Or they can could just use deviant meet and They will be much more faster to install the system and they could gain more profit if the system is Nearly ready for their purpose and they can support the doctors And if there is some change in the law or whatever these people are paid to make the applications fit for the changes for the changes in the Which which are needed So sometimes people think deviant meet is just ready Well, I think the software is never ready and we try to make our best, but it has to be enhanced and Finally diviant meet is a philosopher stone and can provide all solutions. I think never nobody can provide all solutions But we try to do our best What what we can do So he I know makes inverse slide to to inform people what what we really think about it And so I explained it in the first slide is just to to read it if some people Come by chance to the website and read this talk. Here are the answers. I've given about the misconceptions Here are the right conception how we see deviant meets fine Well, what's the problem for a free software in medicine a little bit? I told you about because it was on the scope of the Top ten misconceptions, but I want to go into the detail why we have some trouble more trouble than people who are programming web browsers or whatever and the main stuff the main problem is you have in Free software development kind of an evolutionary process the good the good ones survive and the bad ones Will buy more or less they will be off and But the problem if you have a special application is that you have only a very small user base and To to get Evolutionary processes working, you know need kind of a critical mass and this mass on one side is critical mass of programmers and If the critical mass of users is kind of small Well, this the programmers can grow up from two sides one side is they are among the users The other side is they are paid from the users Free software just starts out of the the user say and basically they will not get paid in the first place Later it might be so if the critical mass of users is quite low You can assume that's one one user per one Very good program was per one thousand users so you need a thousand users first to have a really good programmer and This is a kind of hard relation In gloom it it happened to be that Person who started the project just And Did some study of informatics first and when he finished his five years informatics study He decided to to become a doctor and took another study afterwards and now he's working as a doctor He's basically German that went to Norway about some other places and now he's finally running a medical practice in Australia and in the Nightshifts he just started programming through made and it's a nice guy Currently he is not so active in the project because he do some Well, say political stuff and so but others dropped in and now this project is evolving, but This project is quite lucky to have to was started by a person who has just Informatical skills and so this is kind of Singularity in this field. So the problem is you need more users okay, and Medical stuff is not really the stuff which is really educated in the program programming okay, so The problem is we as a deviant made project try to connect this Both limited sets to make the all the points on the world where our skilled people get connected and start working on one Common project. This is very evident and say several Programmers of these projects are very happy about this project because they say know about each other and say no Is that the users get informed? so if This deviant main project would not exist. I doubt that you people who are sitting here would know about this medical software so they we try to To export the medical software on the back of deviant to have several millions of deviant users in the world and they Will probably notice that there's also some medical stuff and princess idea And this is an important thing that we have large-scale project which is spreading our idea so in my opinion this is quite a basic thing we are the missing link between the users and the developers and several talks in the deviant conference Underlines is we are obliged to our users and we have to care for their needs that they Find a way to work with free software and not this other crappy stuff. Okay, how to be this missing link We we just try to care for the medical subsets inside deviant and We on the other hand have to have an And a good year on a good. I was what our users are doing. I'm Said I'm working in a medical institute I tried to find out what these people need and how we can do it with free for free software And on the other side we have to work with the developers and tell them well it doesn't work if your Application is not translated because the users of these programs are definitely not so good in English That they can work with it. I I found even on Developer conferences people's in Spain, which were not able to communicate about the weather or whatever and they attend international Conferences, but basically our users don't and so we have many countries especially developing developing countries where Nobody speaks English and so this we we raise a large user base if the applications are not translated and We we try to be the missing link between the JVN users and the JVN Programmers because if we would try to fork the deviant made from deviant We would miss a large user base and as I said it is very important So the basic idea is we do not make a separate distribution But we make deviant fit for the purpose we needed instead so here's a kind of an overview what we Want to do in deviant kind of our goals. We want to make an easy installation of Medical care stuff we we care for the administration like good configuration and we care for the Security inside these applications as we do with everything thing and they run Well, we try to Care for some easy handling of the applications with Which are important for medical care? I said to you about the bright side the biological software We are quite good in packaging this software But it's basically some command line stuff and while they the out of our Can use it perfectly, but we have to care for some interfaces or so So as I said, we want to support the developers to make better programs and this is an Important point we have to care for the documentation of the programs and the translation because we in deviant Just notice that it's very important But others didn't learn we have to transport this idea and so I want to make this circle around this different medical applications for different purpose and Everything inside deviant. This is an important thing that we keep closely inside because we we will absolutely Lose if we try to do something else because we are so so less people So what about the prospectus of our deviant work? Well, we basically did the first step we we just face reality was with what we have done and it's the Project starts running. It's not more. It is basically well people tend to say To tell me that the leader of the project. I just feel as somebody who initiated the project It's not about leading. It's just about starting and we now have to be Busy then that it keeps on running and evolves we have Parts which are quite usable as I told you on the bright side and People start to know the behind me. Then this is important just making some noise and doing some stuff as you know What is in the news? Bad news are good news. Even if people will say they were made the crappy stuff people here at this world and so it's important for us and People normally listen at the news there Just try to catch some buzzwords, but I think we are not really crappy We are not not so advanced as it would be nice But I think we did some some good stuff and we could make also some good news So let's continue with the work and I would be happy to Talk with you what would you expect if you want to know what? What we should do in the next step and where we need help we can talk about this It's basically a birth of the fetal session and we can now start over to the work well, if you want to see the slides again, I have this address you met also Google for Andreas Taylor talks it is a page which Google knows perfectly and you can find this stuff and even a written one and Well, I would like to invite you to meet in the room T3 and to discuss if you like And that's basically what I want to say is a session If you speak loud will will will hear you know any large institutions that already uses that I think people No, I know no institution because we we have no real Repot back system. That's I hope but I think More Applications are used and we know about Sometimes it's I happen to get a buck report or a private mail Which let me notice that we have some users, but say basically do not report. Yes, we are using KVM It's fine. What is it or so? No, I don't know Yes But then making some kind of a momentum and I think it's something something you can really make use of Yes, but the difference is the following In the custom deviant distribution fields quality knows is much more advanced and they will meet they have the installer City say they are providing these cities. We are not at this stage currently so we will make some cities which are ready and can be handed out but it is currently not enough to to put on and My problem is if we would make some noise now and people look at it They see well, it's not really what I want to have then they get the imagination Well, they were made is nothing for me I ignore it for the future and so I think we stood should be a little bit quiet until we have something which is really was presenting and Then we can start using explainer to make some funny circles where people are using Debian made and also they You it is easy to to count the schools which are using this, but it's a little bit harder to find out in the medical care because Medical stuff is some kind of secret area. I learned that I was sitting in around About this size or maybe half the size and the speaker told us well We have to be now from now on very open. Yes, so what what what the matter? I'm always open why should I switch anything but these people do not talk much about They are doing so some people may have reason even to hide that I are using free software It's a little bit different any more questions Yes, we have some applications in Java and It might come become more important for some Biological applications, it just happened that a person I wanted to sponsor had some some Java stuff in his build dependencies and I tried to rebuild his package and well I To say sorry, it doesn't build for me and what do I have to do and so this is absolutely a critical thing but I know the reason why you are asking it is not so critical as in In the Educational field, but if we would have a very good Java tool chain It would be nice thing to have anybody else Okay, so we can How many people want to to join some further discussions? one two three four Okay, so we can go to this special room and then this this 15 more minutes Okay, if you if you want to have it here, but yeah, we can we can do something here I Think I can switch over to the web pages and show you what I would regard as the first thing we could do I'll be marking. I'll be marking time So just stop me if I should stop okay until five to Did you record it my lovely? Yeah, actually I caught you typing I have this nice laptop from With its as immense which is not able to display both this one and this one, so I'm trust advertising it all all the time normally, this is a fine thing, but This is a really dropping Yes application or hospitals in Northern Russia? I think that you made some contact. I got this email from a Norwegian guy who tried to work with the Russian hospitals. Right. Yeah. So there are quite a few projects I suspect working with the hospital software. Yeah. And getting them all to work together with the team. Yeah, this was the question I wanted to ask you. Why are there are two projects working on this and not only one? But people normally ask me, why do you want to remove the freedom from these people to do their own project? No, I do not want to remove the freedom. But it doesn't scale. It doesn't work if everybody tries to make this own program. And I have a limited time frame to package projects. And so I have to pick. It is not that I would not like some projects. But I have to pick the project, which is, well, for me, the most valuable. And so I decide which one to use or which one to incorporate in Debian. And so it's not that I'm against these people, but it's my limited time frame. And I just did some, well, I tried to send patches to projects who provided Debian packages. Well, but basically it ignored what I did, because it seemed too complicated to import the patches. But it wasn't really. It was only removing the 20 or 30 LinkedIn packs that these packages had. And they tried to do something good. And they do not really know how to accept the help we can give. This is also a social problem, because they try to compete with each other, but it doesn't really help. So what I wanted to show here on the web pages is I was completely able to get rid of this web page making stuff, because one doctor joins the project and cares for it and did a really good job. And I wanted to show you something else. In the biology stuff part, you see quite good things we did, because Tobias Tertor, what is his name, did some very good work on the screen. You see this is light green. This is not so good we've seen here on the projector. So this is a list of packages we have included in Deviant-Mate. And then we go to the part which is marked yellow. If you look at on the laptop, these yellow ones are the packages where we have in-official packages, which are proceeding towards the official Deviant mirror. There are several reasons which they are not yet included, but they will be hopefully. You get a certain amount of packages. The last part is the red part. These red packages, I think we need a better beamer, a better projector. These are the packages on our list. We want to include this, but nobody cared about them. And so it's kind of to do this. If you hadn't to find the application which is marked red, just go to the web page which is here. You see the license listed there and you can build a package and include it. And if you are not a developer, just ask me and I will sponsor any medical applications. I think we can basically stop here at this point and we'll see. Thank you for being here in the early morning. Early morning is a relative thing. We will have lunch in one or all, but OK. Thank you.