 Okay. Good morning everyone. My name is Doug Sims. I'm with Natural Resources Defense Council and I'm really happy to be here this morning with an exciting panel about climate justice. So what we're going to do is we're going to be talking to three illustrious leaders, which I'll introduce in a moment. We're going to run through a quick discussion that I'll give about the overall topic and the updates on the federal, what's called the clean energy accelerator program. Then we'll have questions from each of our panelists to each of our panelists. And at the end, we'll have questions from the audience. So please feel free to use the chat for any questions or the comments in the Q&A. I'll be monitoring both of them. So let's just get started. So thanks for coming everybody and thanks to the SOCAP team for putting this panel together. So our general topic is how do we finance climate justice in this really important and difficult era of opportunity and also crisis. So we have here is three illustrious guests. We have Kerry O'Neill, who's CEO of Inclusive Prosperity Capital and also was recently named the Environmental Financial Advisory Board of US EPA. Bravo Kerry. We have Kathy Mann, CEO and president of Inclusive, a network of CDFI credit unions, or CDCUs, excuse me, and also itself a CDFI. And we have Omar Blayton, who's CFO at Sunwealth. The bios of the speakers are actually are in the chat, so if you want to get more details, please go there. I won't go into any of their illustrious backgrounds, but I'm going to get them there. So general topic, intermediaries of various kinds are key, delivering on climate justice. And climate justice intermediaries come in different formats. They can be public like green banks or development banks. They can be non-profits like Inclusive Prosperity Capital, non-profit private non-profit. They can be cooperatives and like credit unions. They can be private for-profit companies like Sunwealth. All these are critical for moving the commitments of the finance to realities on the ground and communities. All seek to scale through creating innovative and tailored products and platforms and developing project pipelines. And critically, all need a supply of the right kind of capital. Need to blend different kinds of capital, concessional, non-concessional capital. And more importantly, need credibility on the ground in communities. We cannot access climate justice from top down, must be bottom up. Need aligned developers to bring projects. Need a clear understanding of what communities of the communities are trying to serve. So as background for this discussion, there's two key things are happening right now. One is the Justice 40 initiative, which is a whole of government approach that Biden administration have launched to work with states and communities to make good on Biden's promise to deliver at least 40% of the overall benefits for federal investments in clean energy and climate to disadvantaged communities. This is a critical commitment, but again, it's a commitment. It's not implementation. So one key possible tool to provide the kind of capital and expertise that will be needed to really drive this commitment at scale. And in a time frame which we, which we, which is consistent with the need for climate and for communities, it is something that's called clean energy and sustainability accelerator. This is a proposal that I've been involved with for a very long time in RDC for essentially a federal green bank, which would provide long term low cost capital, both to these green banks, which are specialized intermediaries designed for climate and clean energy, but also the community of community development, mental institutions, MDIs, and other mission driven lenders and investors. So this is a really exciting proposal. It's actually, I just checked it on the last night. It's actually right now in reconciliation still at the $20 billion level. And of that $20 billion, 40% or $8 billion is required to go to disadvantaged communities. So it would be a huge insertion of capital into the market. What we're hearing that also is that it's not a program which we expect senators who are dragging their feet on climate to resist because it actually creates a lot of jobs and opportunities all around the country. And it's also it's a great mix of public-private partnership. So we think that the senators of all kinds will be behind this proposal and to survive this process should it be successful. This is a couple of details on it. The House has passed this legislation three times in the past 16 months. The general concept is that the federal government will deposit funds an independent nonprofit called Accelerator. The president endorsed the concept himself early in his administration of $27 billion level and scaled back a little bit. Over the past few months, with reconciliation, there's been some changes to the program to fit reconciliation. So the program, instead of being creating a new nonprofit, it must be created through existing programs. So the existing program that's being used under the current legislation is called the Greenhouse Gas Reduction Fund. And that fund would allow the EPA to make grants to fund nonprofits to fulfill this role. There's also a separate $7 billion fund for LMI solar, separate from the Accelerator program. What's really exciting about this program is that this money can flow long-term, low-cost capital, both to the network of existing green banks around the country, which is growing, and also directly to CDFIs and other community lenders. So very exciting. So this is an important topic as background for this discussion, because one thing we know is that without having the right kind of capital, we won't be able to deliver climate justice to communities. So I'm going to, I should say one more thing about this. It's really a critical element of President Biden's Justice Board commitment. It's hard to see how he's going to be able to get this through about something like this that really catalyzes the market in a profound and comprehensive way. It's also a big part of delivering on Paris agreement commitments. So we're going to turn to the intermediaries now for some Q&A. I'm about their different perspectives on the market and the Accelerator opportunity. So I'm going to start with a question for all of you. So we'll go through what, why, and how in our question. So this is the first reason in what question. So for each of you, a private non-profit green bank like Harry has also worked at Connecticut Green Bank, the credit union, and a private impact focused solar development and financing firm. What role do you seek to play in the market to advance climate and equity? What opportunities do you see? What challenges do you face? Let's start with Kerry on this first question. Great. Thanks, Doug. And thanks so, Cap. Great to be here in conversation on this great topic. So the role that Inclusive Prosperity Capital plays as Doug said, we're a not-for-profit private intermediary. Think of us as a boundaryless green bank. We actually spun out of the Connecticut Green Bank. And we work at the intersection of community development and clean energy finance and climate impact. And we work through partners on the ground who need the kind of financing solutions that we can bring to the table that are made possible by mission-aligned investors who are investing on us and want to drive capital into these communities. So we really are looking to take some of the innovations that we did at the Connecticut Green Bank and learning from others and bring scaled solutions into the communities that need it most, as you've been talking about, Doug, those that have traditionally been left behind and not a focus of clean energy and clean energy finance. So in terms of opportunities, as we spun out of Connecticut and our roots in New England, we have just been struck by how there is demand everywhere from communities all across the country who have not traditionally been part of the clean energy, you know, revolution and transition. They want climate solutions. They want resilience. And we see an opportunity to standardized approaches to better serve these communities, which kind of speaks to the challenges. These are communities that before the pandemic were stretched, before the recent economic upheaval, and Kathy can speak so eloquently to this. I'll let you speak to it even more. But we need to recognize that it's challenging to serve these communities. They have a lot of needs, not just climate needs. And so how do we help them and bring these solutions to bear? And then from our intermediary perspective, another challenge that we see is getting the right cost of capital at scale so that the accelerator would be amazing if it gets passed. That would be transformative, we think. And another challenge for us is just the investment in product development that needs to happen to address these markets. Let's go to Kathy then a little more. Great. Thanks. Hi. So inclusive has a 40 plus year history focusing on financial inclusion and equity through our network of community development credit unions and just a real quick, you know, community development credit units are financial cooperatives and their community development because they have a primary mission of community development and are generally organized sort of by foreign of low income people in communities that have historically lacked access to capital. So we kind of come at it from kind of a slightly different vantage point from IPC, but met in the middle, so to speak. Because in recent years, as our members have been increasingly experiencing in their communities the impacts, the negative impacts of climate events. There's been a real interest in a real growing interest in sort of designing initially sort of resiliency solutions and now kind of really leaning into like how do we use our capital as a community and a community institution to be driving solutions around clean energy, around climate action. And so, you know, in that way, we've sort of come from the, you know, the equity space and move towards, you know, this is a critical defining, you know, set of challenges for our communities and it's something that our credit unions really want to understand better and be able to use their capital to address the challenge, the challenges. And as, you know, Carrie touches on them so well, you know, there are a lot of challenges and opportunities when you're thinking about that intersection between, you know, between racial equity, between financial inclusion and climate action. You want to think about, you know, when you're thinking about the types of products that you want to design, you really need to think about kind of the existing way in which borrowers in those communities can manage debt and manage credit, right? So, you have to think about the structuring of the terms around, you know, clean energy financing tools really need to be adopted to what the needs of the community is and the needs of the members are, the needs of the residents. So, there's a lot of, you know, really trying to figure out, like, with the community, with the membership, with the target market, how do we think about structuring these loan products so that people can, for example, be able to purchase electric vehicles, so that people can be able to, you know, look at doing energy efficiency retrofits on their homes. They can be thinking about solar on their homes. They can be thinking about different ways that they could be investing in energy efficiency and for for their homes, their businesses, you know, and in their communities. And a lot of that is really thinking about how you structure the terms. So, I know we'll get into a lot of that, but you know, it's going to be longer terms. It's going to be a heavy focus on energy burden and understanding the current energy burden and helping people really think about kind of the way in which this could be a solution for their own pocketbook as well as for, you know, as well as sort of good for the community and good for the globe. There's a lot of sort of culture shift that's starting to happen that needs to be accelerated around, you know, it's very easy to see solar or energy efficiency, clean energy, green products as kind of a luxury item, a boutique product, so to speak. So, even our members who have, you know, early adopters of clean and green products, they found that it was their higher income members that were taking advantage of that. And so, I think really matching it up to like what the solutions are for individuals, and that's where CDFI's really come in, because we kind of know how to tweak and, you know, manage and revamp products to be as useful as possible for the population. And I'll just say it's never going to be one product because everybody comes in with different sets of needs, and so you really need to be thinking in terms of suites of products, you know, a whole range of interventions that a household, a business, or, you know, a local organization might be needing to use. So, I'll turn it back to you, Doug. Thanks, Kathy. Omar. Thanks, Doug. So, Sunwealth is, you know, purely a for-profit entity, but a mission driven one. And so, very similar to Kerry and Kathy, I think, you know, what we look to do is catalyze investments in areas that have been traditionally overlooked by large institutions in capital. And, you know, the way that we do that, however, is, you know, we're really trying to shine a light on the perceived risk in these areas, and, you know, kind of bring into your proper alignment kind of the risk-adjusted returns that we're really talking about. So, you know, we focus on the solar market, and we focus on the small commercial scale. So, we put products on small businesses, not-for-profits, as well as in communities with low, modern income residents. All these places have plenty of creditworthy customers, but they're just not credit rated. And so, in order to really, you know, drive investment in that area, we have to kind of upend the traditional proxies and things that are used in order to, you know, deploy, you know, large capital from the major banks. And so, you know, we have done about 500 products so far to date, almost, and still kind of fundamentally underwriting at a local level, partnering with local developers in order to kind of proliferate and amortize the benefits that solar can provide, you know, at the community level. That's really exciting. Great, great first round of who you are and what you're doing. Let's pivot over to, we're with the investment community today, and I think a lot of folks here are looking at both financial returns and social and environmental returns. So, let's talk about what kind of returns you're generating in terms of social and environmental returns, and why are these communities the right place for mission-driven investors to focus on to invest through your platforms? What are the impacts you're tracking or seeking to impact with your work that would be of interest to investors trying to generate impact and returns, financial returns? Let's start with Omar at this time. Sure, so on the impact level, obviously we track, you know, carbon reduction as well as job years and job creation. We want to make sure that, you know, we're creating local jobs through our projects, and then of course, savings to our customers, our off-takers, so, you know, the economic benefits and how they're being spread to customers and then as well as to the local developers. On the investment side, we're tracking, you know, the rate of return. You know, we're proud of the fact that we feel we don't necessarily need concessionary capital, but, you know, we're, you know, market, obviously, market rate capital given the proper risk assessment, not not the perceived market rate capital, and as well as our payments. So, you know, we've been around since 2014, we've had zero defaults on our payments and met all of our targeted returns, all of our investors, and, you know, we're proving out a track record, like I said before, we have a number of projects at this point and a number of fund advantages that, you know, are coming to maturity, so we hope to kind of keep proving this out to go forward, but that's that's what we present. Thanks, Omar. Kathy, what's your perspective? Yeah, I mean, I would say, you know, I love how all this complements each other, you know, in terms of impacts, I think our starting point is really around, you know, vulnerability and around energy burden. You know, when our our movement kind of got started shifting into climate action, you know, as a result of natural disasters and, you know, we have a large membership segment from Puerto Rico, and that really brought inclusive into the space. It's starting, you know, immediately following Hurricane Maria, when the grid in Puerto Rico went down, you know, there was an immediate recognition that there needed to be rebuilding with resiliency, and that included solar, and that included solar on our branches, right? So the network of credit units needed to have they need to be up and running. You know, within 48 hours of Hurricane Maria hitting, every single cooperativa on the island of Puerto Rico was up and running. They were handing out cash to keep people basically, you know, being able to meet basic, you know, basic needs, and they were doing that without power, and now, you know, there was an immediate pivot to say, we need to at least have solar operation, you know, solar capability so that we can be managing our branch operations and serving our community as we, you know, as we go through these kinds of events, and then it kind of grew from there, that we want to make sure that our, you know, our members are rebuilding their homes and their structures with, you know, as energy efficiently as possible and with solar capability, right? And, you know, same is true with our members now in southeast Louisiana and along the Gulf Coast, right? Because those areas are increasingly targeted. There's a recognition that we have to be kind of focusing in on that vulnerability focus. That's our starting point. And then really, and tracking that, are we getting, are we doing better during some of these, you know, hardest climate events in being able to make sure that service remains, that people are able to get access to their, to their cash and able to get access to small loans and be able to keep their basic needs of their households going. And then from there, how do we help people to really think about reducing, looking at, understanding, analyzing some of that energy burden that they're carrying, and really understanding that as part of a broader conversation around financial counseling and coaching, in which we really help them think about, this is also a budget impact. So how do we kind of track the ability for people to be able to be better off in their household budgets as a result? So that's sort of the space that we're moving in in the, in the climate impact and then hoping that the additional impact benefits can be tracked as we go. And then on, you know, financial returns, these are actually, you know, a CDFIs who are always taking risk and always sort of pushing the envelope and trying to dig deeper in our markets and dig deeper in our communities to make sure we're reaching people who need it. These are actually really good, these are good loans. And I know Kerry can talk a lot more about that in terms of the data that she's been able to amass, but these are solid and, you know, these are loans that repay very, very well. These are loans in which people actually can benefit from syncing up the energy reduction and be able to sync up their repayments to that. So not only are they good returns for the financial institution, but they're really good returns on the household budget. Yeah, so I'll just say, you know, yes to all of what Omar and Kathy are saying, coming out of the Connecticut Green Bank and at IPC, we are data hounds and we do a tremendous amount of tracking, but maybe stepping back into that broader like the why of what we're tracking, you know, these are communities that are having outsized disparate impacts from climate change. EPA in September put out a really, really terrific report that I'll drop a link into the chat in a moment about on, you know, the the outsized impacts, you know, climate change will impact everybody, but it's going to have greater impact on a set of communities that are low income, that are frontline, that have had, you know, you know, suffered through environmental degradation due to where we're placing our power systems and and what have you. And so, so part of the tracking too is thinking about what where are there, you know, ancillary benefits around health outcomes, like asthma, because of indoor and outdoor, you know, air quality issues. And where, of course, you know, jobs is a big one in the economic development and the energy burden reduction, the ability to, you know, change the dynamic of your pocketbook or your church's pocketbook or your social services pocketbook or your municipalities pocketbook, what have you. That's a piece of it too. But I think we all have an opportunity to think about the why and the where, you know, so where we're focused and why we're focused are connected. And the financial system has a history, a pretty rotten history, right, of redlining and racial disparities. And so, you know, as we're engaged in the financing realm, the opportunity to you know, create solutions that can become part of changing that dynamic on the record, you know, the restorative and repetitive nature of things is another thing that we can track through lots and lots of different ways that, you know, Omar and Kathy talked about. Thanks, Kathy. Thanks, Omar. Thanks, Kerry. Great understanding of the impacts. I'm going to move to some specific questions for you guys now. I'm going to start with with Kathy again, since we're thinking about the accelerator, talking to impact investors. We know we need to have a land and cost of capital that works for the borrower, for the member in your case. What we think about the capital stack in this space, what is the ideal capital stack from your perspective for these kinds of these kinds of loans? Yeah, and I think it's a, you know, a great question for, you know, for a panel, you know, at an investor conference, because I think one of the most important things for impact investors to be thinking about is, you know, you kind of are always sort of trying to figure out your own like risk return kind of calculations. And one of the things I think when you see the growth of CDFI lending in the climate justice space, it gives you a lot of options around kind of that the capital stack and where you want to be with your own investing and lending in that in that space. So, you know, as community development credit union, so we're the network, a network of community development credit units, we're also at inclusive a CDFI intermediary. So, a lot of times what we'll do is we'll sort of build a capital stack with a number of different diverse investors who have different levels of risk tolerance and different needs for returns. And, you know, one of the things that, you know, the sort of equity capital, which is certainly something we will hope to see from the accelerator, you know, the ability of the accelerator to deliver just sort of that basic equity investment into on-the-ground community lenders is going to be really critical. That equity comes in and in the case of, you know, community development depository institutions like community development banks and credit unions, that equity comes in and from that you can sort of, the institutions can take that what we tend to call in the credit union space sort of that primary capital, you can take that and leverage some secondary capital, which is usually a subordinated loan. It's a little bit higher risk loan with a bit, you know, with a significant return and sort of you can then take, you know, use that to sort of bring in, you have got a nice primary capital cushion to be in first position before a secondary capital investor who's willing to take some risk if there's significant losses and is going to get a return to justify that. And then as depository institutions with that kind of combination of primary and secondary capital you can go out and raise deposits, whether it's from your community and your membership or whether it's, you know, in the investor's space with non-member deposits, you can raise up to 10 dollars of deposits for every one dollar you're bringing in in primary or secondary capital. And so we think a lot about kind of what that appropriate capital stack is. Deposits are, you know, for somebody who's new to this space and they're just testing the waters and they're not quite sure, you know, whether this is the right space, a non-member deposit is a perfect instrument because it's up to $250,000. It's fully insured by the federal government just like, you know, FDIC insurance for credit unions is called National Credit Union Chair Insurance Fund, but it's federally insured funds. So you can kind of figure out where you're going to be. We actually at Inclusive manage a deposit platform, a social impact deposit platform. So we can work with sort of large investors that come in with say a $10 million deposit, you know, where they want to break it up into deposits and we can through our platform have that sort of shaved down to about 40, $250,000 deposits each. So it's all completely insured going out to multiple different institutions. So, you know, that's kind of an easy way for investors to get started. It's deposits though, you know, so just look at what your bank's return is. It's pretty low. You're not going to get a significant return on that, but you know that money is safe and it fits, you know, comes from an endowment or an area, something that you're not able to risk. That's something you can, you know, get started with. And then you kind of see how those kind of overall that kind of reporting works and how that lending goes. And you can get a little bit more flavor for kind of going sort of deeper down into the capital stack. So, you know, this combination of like for us, the beauty of an accelerator is it's that kind of initial catalyzing seed investment. There's other ways to do it too. We have a number of investors who've done things like credit enhancements that bring in other type of slightly risk funds that enable us to continue to build up that capital stack. But there's a lot of great opportunities to be making investments in this area that are really going to reverberate and leverage a tremendous amount of capital on the ground. Thank you, Kathy. So Omar, this is a bit of a trick question because we've never been able to talk before. So, we mentioned a little bit earlier about how Sunwell has focused on perceived risk. So, how does Sunwell's generate returns by investing in the riskiest part of the commercial solar market? Yeah, it's done. So, to start, it's our general approach to the investment. While kind of impact is core to our DNA. I mean, we're not just B-Court certified, we're B-Court by the Charter. That's with the state of Delaware, our corporate Charter is a B-Court. The capital we seek isn't necessarily always mission-aligned. We have a lot of mission-aligned investors and we love them and they're fantastic. But some aren't. And so them being the lowest common nominators, how do we appeal to them? And there, we have to prove that this is a market where, I mean, there's almost an arbitrage opportunity where, you know, there's a perceived risk, but that risk is way lower than, you know, what you're actually, what you're actually taking off. And so, the way we do that versus is through fundamental underwriting where a lot of institutions, because they have to put so much capital at one time and we're dealing with like small localized projects, they're going to use proxies. Well, proxies aren't necessarily the best verge. Using a proxy that you use for certain type of projects aren't going to apply to the projects in a market that you've had attacked before. And so, you really have to kind of be locally very granular about how you look at how these different entities and people fit into these communities and, you know, whether they're their assessed risk is the same as what the perceived risk is. Again, it usually is not. The second part is using historical data. Like I said, we have almost 500 projects under now, which have been operational from between, you know, six months to the last, you know, six years or so. And, you know, we're able to really tease out what have been the drivers between any kind of hiccups. We haven't had any real defaults, but, you know, delays in payment or things like that. And that allows us to be, you know, creative in our structuring and innovative and kind of looking at, you know, not just the person paying for the power, but what, you know, state incentives are involved or what ways you can take, get site control in order to come up with creative default options in the case of if there is a default. And so, you know, the recovery, you might have a default, the recovery is going to be three quarters or 80 percent, and that's going to be state back in some cases. So that's another way to look at it. And then finally, and this is the most important piece is, you know, we have a flexible and opportunistic capital. Like I said, it's not always mission aligned, but it always has to be flexible. You can't put these traditional constraints, particularly around closing costs or, you know, you can't apply the same kind of underwriting criteria to kind of a small commercial deal that's, you know, 50, 150 kilowatts that you do to a yard utility scale deal, which is like 10 megawatts, where you might have 85 advisors looking at a deal, in short, it's only going to be, you know, it might be, you know, $100,000, but, you know, on a 10, $20 million deal, so what? On a, you know, $150,000 deal, it doesn't happen. So, you have to, you know, you have to have capital that's willing to kind of look at what we've done so far and what we have proven out and say, hey, this, and think about it, and just really kind of, you know, be contemplative about, you know, what risk are we really taking on? And once we were able to kind of do that, we're able to convince a lot of people that this is a good deal, and especially, you know, once they've invested, it's in the reinvest, because, again, we keep making our payments on time, so they're happy about that. So that's, now, you know, the trick question part is it's not the riskiest part of the stack, but, you know, how do we show that it's not the riskiest, and that's how we do it. Thanks for that detail, Omar, that's great. So we're going to do one more for Kerry, and then we're going to sort of mix in some audience questions and other questions in the last 10 minutes. So, Kerry, I know, I know you, you read the Green Bank and not your IPC, and just want to explore, you've seen sort of the life cycle of some of these companies that have been involved in this space for a while. And can you talk about how in this space, as one of these mission-driven lenders, Green Banks, you've seen companies scale business models serving these communities and demonstrating the success at different stages of their development. Yeah, yeah. A softball. You let me talk about my favorite success story, which is our partnership in Connecticut with Posigen, which is, it's a for-profit but mission-oriented company that offers a lease for solar, as well as an energy efficiency package. It's targeted at low- to moderate-income homeowners. And the company got started as part of the post-Katrina rebuild down in Louisiana. And as we were looking around in Connecticut, figuring out like, how do we get more solar in the low-income communities? We had done a lot of analysis. We had a lot of low-income homeowners in Connecticut, which was like, you know, a surprise to us. We didn't understand that until we looked at the data. And so, we looked to attract in Posigen into the state to really allow us to focus in on this market that was so dramatically underserved. So the rate of solar penetration back in 2014 in the low and moderate-income census tracts was like 10 times lower than in affluent census tracts. And in Connecticut, income and race correlate, so that also meant, you know, communities of color, like one-to-one overlap. And then we brought in Posigen. We attracted them in through an open-arrophy process where we said, tell us what you need. All you solar financiers out there focused in residential. And Posigen came in with a proposal that said, hey, we want to co-brand with you because your credibility as a quasi-public in these communities, government agencies, really important because, you know what? This, you know, go solar for no money down sounds too good to be true and that's like a huge barrier. So that trust is a big issue. And by the way, to come into a new market and to focus on this market, as Omar talked about, the perceived risk is a huge issue. So their capital providers, for them to scale up was going to be inordinately expensive for them to bring in the capital to come into Connecticut. So Connecticut Green Bank stepped into the position of being, you know, the subordinate debt piece in a broader capital stack that attracted other Connecticut and other, you know, outside Connecticut investors to create the initial fund that allowed Posigen to come into the market. And then we, you know, co-branded together municipal-based campaigns. They went, they opened their offices in Bridgeport, you know, a very poor city, one of the poorest cities in America. And to this day, I think Bridgeport, you know, across Connecticut probably has the largest number, like sheer number of solar installs in low-income census tracks which is just phenomenal. And so we did community-based campaigns together, you know, leveraging, you know, youth sports leagues and schools and houses of worship and city council members and all the things that we know work when you need a trusted messenger. And they hired from within the community which was also phenomenal, so bringing jobs in. And we were able to turn around that dynamic in, I think it took us three years to change the dynamic in terms of the rate of penetration. So Connecticut is now a beyond-parity state in terms of having, on a pro-rata basis, more solar in low-income communities of color than in white and affluent communities on a pro-rata basis. That doesn't solve all the problems. That's not helping home renters. But in that little market, it showed how you can use blended capital stack and intermediary strategies to partner with private companies whose business model is to go where nobody else goes, like Omar's business model is to go where nobody else goes. You know, the next round of this is block power. Block power is doing this with heat pumps and other clean energy in the urban core. Similarly, mispriced risk from the capital provider side of things. And IPC was the first credit provider to block powers. They stood up a heat pump leasing product. And behind that came other capital that said, oh, wait, okay, now I see there's an opportunity here. So intermediaries, like all of us, pay a really critical role to help these companies who are trying to be part of the solution get going. Thank you. Thank you, Kerry. So I think it looks like the questions in the side have been addressed. So I'm going to use a question about grants. I think Kerry, you addressed that. This question about preserving and creating new affordable housing. Is someone going to address the affordable housing question? Yeah, I did briefly in the chat. So Seth, totally agree. Yeah, that affordable housing and climate justice are, you know, this goes to the redlining issue. This goes to where the disparate impacts are. I will just say, though, it is complex. The capital stacks are complex. The variety of building types is complex. So the solutions you need for affordable housing for two to four units and five to nine units is very different than like your 50 plus unit buildings. And so and the capital stacks are different. And the owner profiles and their own capacity is different. And so it's a complex space, one in which we all have so much work to do. It is an opportunity to do a lot more work on the standardization and productization side of things. And that somebody asked where philanthropy can help, you know, philanthropy helping to fund the product development because we're all small organizations. This is hard work to do the product development. But also that early catalytic capital to test out strategies where, you know, because we're not always going to get it right the first time. We know that from Connecticut Green Bank. I launched in my team 11 products in five years and like we had three bombs, you know, this. So and we learned from that. And then the next time around, you know, you do better. So that's super helpful. So we got about, I think three minutes left, if I have this correct. So let's do, if you can squeeze in a lightning round. Well, I'm going to do a little different. I think we kind of cover some of the some of the questions about hurdle rate and proxy. So let's go to the question about technology. How important are digital platforms or fintech generally to your businesses, financial inclusion and climate justice? What opportunities does digitization decision making and finance uphold for investors? Let's do a lightning round keep your comments to about 45 seconds. Let's start with Kathy. Okay. Just overarching, you know, scaling requires sort of a movement or technology and platforms and digitization. Just across the board and all community development lending, we have a really critical moment happening right now where the more that, you know, institutions are automating, if we don't have automated solutions and algorithms that understand a low income consumer and marketplace, we're going to be shifting our institutions away from our market. So it's critical that that investment is not in sort of off the shelf solutions. It requires additional investment because we have to be building it from the algorithms and designing our own algorithms based on the history of community development lending. So real quick, we're super excited about a partnership we're doing with IPC in expanding their smart e-loan program which is a platform that can enable us to like build in products that are tried and true in the community development landscape and be able to have some of that, some of those automating procedures and processes at least enable us to standardize for the right marketplace. Thanks, Kathy. Omar, who's a quick take, your quick take. Yeah, I kind of agree with Kathy. There's two parts of it. So one, from a marketing outreach it's going to be fantastic but then you have to make sure that the people you're trying to reach have adequate access to that technology or bandwidth to even see it. So it's one piece. And the other end is using algorithms to kind of enhance and speed up your timing around underwriting or products. But like any model it's garbage in, garbage out. So if you make the wrong assumptions or you're using insufficient data points and outside of the communities that you're focusing on your answers you're going to get on the recommendations are not going to be useful. So I think those are two things you've got to keep in mind. But on the surface, obviously technology you can always need to improve the technology and kind of think of ways to apply that. Yeah and I would just to build on that say really quickly that these communities that we're serving the transaction size tends to be lower and transaction costs are higher. And so as opposed to being focused on automating the underwriting we're very focused on streamlining the entire process of technology enabled digitization of the document collection the underwriting package and what have you so that we can be as efficient as possible and scale because these transaction sizes are smaller. So there's a huge role and we've invested a lot in that. Well I want to thank the panelists it's been a really great session got locked under 45 minutes. Hopefully they'll be recording I'm guessing we have the contacts that were in the either in the system here or in the LinkedIn thanks for joining and reach out if you have any what can you discuss with any of the panelists or myself. Thanks so much. Thanks.