 Hello everyone, welcome to Mind Pump. In the first half of this show, we talk about the most important thing to look for when buying supplements. And no, it's not the cheapest price. Later in the show, we talk about our friend, the liver king, his big lie and what we think about it. In the second half of the show, the guys coach three live callers on questions such as my workout is making me feel beat up. What should I do about it? What is the best way for me to learn how to program workouts for my clients? And how can I choose the best fitness goal for me as the circumstances of my life change? Finally, if you've been watching the show for a while and you haven't subscribed to Mind Pump Clips, what are you waiting for? Go over there and subscribe. All right, enjoy the show. All right, check this out. When you buy supplements, one thing is more important than all the other things. One factor you should pay attention to the most. Does this supplement company provide third-party testing? Is it regulated through a third-party company? If you don't have that, the odds are it's like a 50-50 chance the supplement doesn't have what it says it has in it or it may have heavy metals or toxicities or other crap. By the way, this isn't just me saying this, study after study on supplements shows this, improves this, supplement companies cannot be trusted unless they provide testing. You think it's the most important? It is, because if you look at the data, whenever they do studies on supplements, I'll mention two of them. There was one done a long time ago on protein powders and heavy metal toxicity. And it was like seven out of 10 of them had potentially toxic levels of heavy metals in their product. Then there was another study where they took, I think it was 10 or 12 bottles, random bottles of supplements at, I think it was Walmart or somewhere. And it was like nine of them either didn't have what they said they had in them, didn't have as much as what they said or had other undisclosed random weird ingredients. And it's like every single time they do a study like this, it's not like, first of all, 10% would be terrible. Imagine any other market where 10% of the products you're gonna get are lying to you. It's like, it's always like 50% or more. So it's like, it's rampant. So regardless of all the other things you need to look for in supplements and I'm not saying there aren't other factors that are important, but this has got to be one of the most important for sure because the odds that you're getting something that's got stuff that's bad for you, doesn't have what it says in is it's basically, the odds you're getting ripped off are pretty damn high. So look for that third-party testing. Would you say as a rule of thumb that it is dangerous then to buy the cheapest supplement? You know, because of the third-party testing, like there's no way. I would be more skeptical for sure. There's no way if you were doing third-party testing that you would be able to out-compete the people that are not. Yeah, because. So if you take a product like protein, creatine, some of these basic branched-hand amino acids, whatever, and you are shopping on Amazon and you find the cheapest one, the likelihood that they're third-party tested, I would say is probably not likely, right? Yeah, there's this false perception that the supplement companies have kind of created and it's partially driven by consumers and that is that product A is exactly like product B and the only difference is the price, right? So it's like, it's not like buying electronics. Like if I get an iPhone at this place or an iPhone at that place, they're identical. It's the same model, same everything. Then I'm just gonna look at the price because what's the difference, right? And supplement companies promote this by saying like, we also are whey protein or our pre-workout also has these same ingredients or we also sell this medicinal mushroom mix or creatine or whatever. But look how much cheaper our product is. Look at the servings, look at the price per serving. So why don't you just go with us? That's quite false because you're right. Getting this testing, like if a company wants to have third-party testing that certifies that it is indeed free from synthetic pesticide. So it says organic, but here's the testing that shows that for sure is organic. Here's the testing that shows that it's glyphosate residue-free, which is a whole nother level of testing. Or here's the testing that says that our products are free from impurities or heavy metals, which seem to be pretty prevalent. That costs money to do that kind of stuff to test these batches. So it's probably gonna, it definitely will make your product more expensive. Now, would you say in terms of like a quick cross-reference of these companies like examine.com, is that like your best bet in terms of like being able to see whether or not they did the testing and you're terrified? No, I don't think so. They don't do it on there? No, examine.com is a great website, by the way, if you haven't, if people watching haven't been there. But examine.com looks at examined studies based off of ingredients, but it doesn't say this supplement company, but the supplement company itself should provide this. Oh, they will. If they're third-party tested, they're doing any of the other tests. They'll usually market it that way, yeah, because it's expensive. And if not, you can contact them, send them an email and say, hey, who tests, you know, what regulatory agency, what private agency regulates your product? I mean, isn't that part of the reason why OrganiFy is on the higher end as far as, because they're doing multiple like third-party tests, right? So you have the regular third-party tested to, to back check. It's organic, then it's glyphosate-residue-free, then they test for heavy metals and that kind of stuff. So yeah, I mean, that's gonna make something more expensive because by the way, I'm not advocating for government regulation. I think that's, you know, because sometimes people think that the alternative means perfect. No, listen, this is the best way to do it. If you're a consumer and you don't care and you're willing to take the chance and, you know, to save $5 on a product that that's in there in a, in a super risky, unregulated market-like supplements, then by all means go for it. Or you're willing to spend the extra five bucks to make sure that you're getting a great product. Then let the market speak. Do you know, there was another study where they took libido-enhancing pills or whatever quote-unquote boner pills, right? That help you with your erection. And on the bottles, you'll be like, oh, this has these herbs in it. And then they tested them. Do you know how many of them had? They had Viagra in it. Like medications had actual pharmaceutical medications in the pills. And people didn't even know about it. Someone may be thinking, well, that whatever, who cares about that? No, no, no. Those medications could, they could have interactions with other things that you're taking, other medications that could cause problems. Like you want to know what you're taking says that has what it says that it has, especially if it's something you take on a daily basis. Like we're talking about heavy metals. If you take a one or two scoops of protein powder, five days a week, let's say, and it's got higher levels of mercury or lead in it than it's supposed to, you might not notice for a little while, but then all of a sudden, after a year or two of supplementing with it, you're getting anxious or you feel like shit and you don't know what's going on. You go to the doctor and, you know, a doctor isn't going to write out the gates, do a heavy metal test on you. They just typically don't do that. So now you're going to the doctor, like I'm anxious, I don't feel good. They're like, okay, let's put you on an anti-anxiety medication or let's put you on an antidepressant. And you kind of feel better because you're treating a symptom, but you're, and you're still taking this protein and you're still building up this toxic levels. Wasn't there a pre-workout that got busted and popped for the like speed of being in there for like the last few weeks? Yeah, there was, there was some. There's a huge risk. Yeah, I know what's funny about that is there's some people who are like, ooh, I want it more. Yeah, of course, of course, you know? But I mean, I'm telling you, when you look at the whole supplement market, and there's a lot of factors that consider, there's a lot of supplements out there that do nothing, even if they have what they say they have, it's like a waste of time. But, you know, every single time, it's like, I remember the first time I saw this, I was shocked. I'm like, oh my God, that's terrible. And then another study came out, another study came out, another study came out. I remember what company it was, it got busted for amino acid spiking because they said that there was 30 grams of protein per scoop, but it was actually 15 or something like that. Now, knowing what you- And just more and more, I'm like, oh my God, this is super rampant. Knowing what you know about supplements today, do you think that if you had all that same knowledge and wisdom, if you went back to your, you know, 15, 16 year old self, do you think you would have not spent the money on supplementing? Totally. You would? I would have been more careful, and I would have spent it on stuff that was more efficacious. I, you know, as a kid, I just fell for every single promise, every single, you know, ad that I read, and the more it looked like it could like pack muscle on. I mean, I bought so much crab. Oh, I thought multivitamins did a lot for you, because of Hulk Hogan. Yeah. Take your vitamins. That's how you got so massive. Yeah, I mean, it's obvious. You know what? You bring up a really good point. Yeah. And that is that, and we just, you know, it's funny, it's like- The power of association? Yeah, like, if you talk to somebody, and you say, hey, if a super rip-looking or, you know, beautiful-looking person who's obviously either genetically gifted, like crazy genetically gifted, or on tons of performance-enhancing drugs or whatever, if that person is telling you to take this because that's why they look the way they do, like, take our vitamin C supplement, and then you'll get 21 inch arms like me. Everybody's gonna be like, yeah, that's full of crap. And yet, it's with cell products. It consistently sells products. And so, you know, I tell people all the time, like, don't base your judgment because the person selling it to you looks super crazy shredded or jacked. Like, that's not really a good way to judge. The crazy part about it that's, I think that's interesting about human psychology is the fact that you could still know all that and yet still get rationally, logically, like your brain like processes it like, there's no way. But also, dude looks impressive. Well, look what I think, I mean, I predict is going to happen with the liver king. What's up, everybody? Welcome back. Here's the giveaway for today's episode. Maps and Ebola. This is the maps program that started it all. You can win it for free, but here's how you enter to win. Leave a comment below. The first 24 hours that we dropped this episode, subscribe to this channel and then turn on your notifications. Do all those things. And then if we like your comment, we'll declare you the winner in the comment section of this video. Nowhere else. And that's how you'll know you won Maps and Ebola. We also have a sale going on right now. It's the at home holiday bundle. So we took our best at home workout programs, put them together and discounted them massively. So check this out. Maps Anywhere, Maps Suspension, Maps Prime and the NoBS six pack formula altogether, which normally would retail for $338. You can get all of them for $99.99 right now for the at home holiday bundle. If you're interested, you wanna sign up? Click on the link at the top of the description below to get set up. All right, here comes the show. You have somebody who, you know, blatantly- I was shocked when that came out. Let me tell you. Stupid. None of us were, by the way. The reason why we didn't talk about it very much is because it's just like, come on, you know? But the part, see the, now the part that I think is so interesting or that I do think is fascinating to talk about is that he's on him. He blatantly lied tons of times and I still think that he is going to massively benefit financially. He's still going forward. So you think it's not gonna hurt him at all? Oh, no, absolutely it will. But if you were to go about, okay, so- So his trajectory is gonna not be like what it would be. Okay, in 2009, these are just made up numbers. I don't know, I don't have his exact P&Ls and no, but I know that he has touted that he makes over $100 million a year in supplements. Although I will say this, do you think he might have been lying about how many millions of dollars he was making? I definitely think he's lying when he says that his new persona and character has minimally to not affect his business at all. That's full of shit. Because he said that, you know that. But what if his numbers are crap? What do you believe about him and what he said? Yeah, you're right. He could be making up the numbers because $100 million supplements, what do they sell? Well, that's irrelevant to my point. Sure, so let's just assume. Yeah, that's irrelevant to my point that I'm making. So let's say it doesn't matter if it's 50, 100, 10, it doesn't matter what it is. My point is that he increased his percentage of revenue by so much by becoming this character. Okay, so let's- Oh, for sure. So I'm gonna say, I'm gonna say he 300% increase in revenues by becoming the liver king. So let's say he had lots of success even before, then he becomes this character who goes around lying and does all these gimmicks to get all this attention. And I'm gonna say his product is now selling 300% plus more. I don't care what he says, I'm sure it is, more since he's created this character. And I absolutely think he'll take a hit, but the hit's gonna look like 30%. You take 30% from it. So you're saying overall. So overall. It was in terms of the revenue, it was positive. Not to mention something about us, we love redemption stories. And so he'll take an initial 30% hit of people that will feel lied to and cheated and mad, and they'll stomp their feet and then go buy from somebody else that they get sold to. And then they'll never get those customers again. But then there's a percentage of people, one who won't give a fuck, and then two, there's a percentage of people that, and I see it if you actually look at his apology on YouTube that say, I like him even more now. They like him more now. So, and I think he knew the entire time. I think he went into it when you read the emails that the correspondence back and forth with the guy that he was inquiring about. By the way, do you know that the guy? There's nothing authentic about any of the redemptive side of it though. That's the thing. I just look at it as a reflection of where we are as society. Well, I mean, I agree, Justin. There's the same thing for every Marvel story and made-up thing we watch on television, yet we all line up to sit down and watch all this stuff. Did you see that the person, the coach, or whatever that email came from came out and said it was me? No, I know that. So I got sucked in. I cannot believe that I watched an hour of this, but I was so intrigued by the story from what's Derek's last name, from more plates, more dates, whatever his last name is. Johnston, is it like that? No, it's not. Derek Johnston. He's gonna make this a spate of a fucking day. Just a common name. Schmidt. He puts out really good content. And he did like a one-hour video on like he broke down every email, but he had it all blanked. He protected the name of the actual coach. So you're saying the coach came out. That guy came out. Oh, I didn't know that. So first of all, what makes me laugh is he find it for me, Doug. I didn't know that. The funny about this is the space. Why does everybody have a weird name? So we have liver king and the coach that he wrote to, his name is vigorous Steve. Okay, no it isn't. I swear to God. Doug, look up vigorous Steve. We got Joey Schwoll, and then what was the other? Devin Fazique. Come on, man. We need names. We fucked up. Why do we have nicknames? Super lame. We're so lame. Yeah. No wonder we're not as popular. I'll be Sportsball Sal. Woody Adam. And then Casey Justin. Really cool names. Uh-huh. That's because we're making fun of the whole thing. Did you find this guy, Doug? Yeah, I'm seeing he has like a YouTube channel. He does. He's actually a really smart guy. Talks about- I imagine he has enhancing drugs. Okay, so did you know, I think this is really funny because, you know, more plates, more dates Derek, right? Was, has been following this whole thing and he's been reporting on liver king since the beginning of him. And like, because everyone wanted to know, because he talks so much about it. God, I hate the gossip side of fitness. I really do. This is so painful to talk about. It really is like a who gives a fuck kind of a thing, but there's, there's just, I mean, he's making money hand over fist. And so you kind of have to acknowledge it. Well, the only reason why, I mean, because we didn't talk about it before, the only reason I want to talk about it now is because we have enough people that I actually want to hear our opinion on what he thinks about it. It's like, we are not the type to, to jump on the bandwagon of like, you know, this title is not gonna be- Who's Natty or not? You know, like- No, so let me tell you another thing that like, I mean, I hesitated to even bring it up, you know, for as long as I did, because what it also annoys me is, and we have friends in the space that do this, is that as he's going viral and trending, everybody is making videos- It's the freaking tabloid side of fitness. It's so annoying. It helps nobody. And so I don't, I don't like that. So I mean, this is the guy right here? That's vigorous Steve right there. Yeah, so he's, and he, the guy, I mean, the guy is really smart. I've seen some of his stuff. And vigorous. Really, really smart, I don't know why they call him vigorous Steve. It's kind of cracking me up. Interesting. But yeah, I hate this. So, I mean, I guess we could tell people, like when, when liver king was making his rounds on every podcast before this all came out, like we had opportunities to go after him and go after him on our show. Yeah, they reached out. We said, no. We're like, yeah, no. It's so dumb. It's just the sideshow. I hate the side of fitness. I hate the caricatures. I hate the gossip side of fitness. Now that being said- This helps no one. It's garbage. And you know, I want the consumers, I'm trying to get consumers to stop judging a product because they have someone that looks in a particular way saying, this is great because that's, that's almost never the case. It's almost never the case that that's actually what's happening. Liver King obviously doesn't look the way he does because he takes desiccated liver tablets or whatever else supplement you ever want. I mean, but it's been the formula since the beginning of time. I mean, when you look at every, you look at all the biggest, most popular bodybuilding magazines. And you know, most of the pro bodybuilders make a majority of their money peddling supplements that many of them don't even take. No. You know, you go through a muscle fitness magazine and I guarantee you'll see at least a handful of branched chain amino acids with, you know, paired with Mr. Olympia. Yeah, I think it just reminds us it's never going to go away. Like especially with like the waist trainers and the pills, the diet pills and like all these things that they're just always going to resurface and it's like a cyclical thing. Like somebody else will like pedal it in a new way and pretend that this is all the result of like some magical- What is it about us that wants- Well, let me ask you guys this. So, cause this, I'll tell you what the most powerful, I guess, selling or the most powerful tactic that I encounter by far is a personal anecdote. If Justin comes to me and says, hey, I took, you know, bull testicle extract and bro, I got so strong on it and I know that that is garbage. I'm going to be very, very compelled to try it cause it was Justin, cause I know Justin. So that's super powerful. The social element of it. Yeah, especially if you know the person. Then there's the anecdote online. That's obviously very powerful. There's a reason why Mime Pump has almost never, I don't even think we've ever done before and after pictures of, we got a lot of before and after pictures. We got lots of people who followed our programs and have transformed their bodies, but we know that it will kind of, I guess what it perpetuates and what it pushes. And it also feeds into the part of the fitness space that we hate, part of it, which is the, you know, hey, look at this guy. That's, this is why you should buy this product, but it's very effective. It sells like crazy. So now I'll tell you what, when I was a kid, I quickly moved from the buff guys telling me to take this to, and they still would sell me this way because it wasn't a real scientific study, but there were ads where they pretended to be scientific. This is how this protein breaks down. And then I would get sold on something like that. But yeah, I wish people would just, I wish consumers would change a little bit because then this would, the liver king wouldn't exist if everybody saw him for what he was, which is just- The interesting part is that he, I don't know what his exact numbers were, but he was successful before all this. I mean, he already had multiple companies that were, yeah, I don't know to what level. I mean, obviously he claims that it was making a lot more, but I mean, he had enough to afford a huge ranch and a lifestyle where he could come and go as he want. I mean, he's got a nice place. So he wasn't broke by any means. I mean, talk about though, the level of greed that you have to have to have already created that kind of success, probably doing it the right way at this point. Imagine being his kids, you know what I mean? Like, oh, there's pooping in the backyard again. He said he would do that. You ever hear him talk about that? Yeah, uh-huh. And then he would wipe. Wearing a lion's mane around his head with no shirt all the time, picking me up from school. Yeah. Imagine that. That would drive you to my dad. You imagine if he was your neighbor. Like, oh, God, there he is again, he's so. It's, you know, when we did the live event and people were talking to me about our business and the things that, you know, that we all do, you know, like each one of us outside of the podcast, what we like and what we don't like. And I tell you still to this day, my least favorite thing to do is to talk to the camera, whether it be through Instagram stories or through YouTube and to pretend like I'm talking to millions of people when I'm only talking to a single, you know, video kid standing across from me. And the part that I find so difficult is if you've done this enough, you quickly realize that the more animated, the more you project and act. The more unnatural you act. Yeah, the more it's received on the other side, on the other side and I've seen. It always plays better when you're like, when you overly present yourself. It does, it really does. Those people remember you. And it sucks because it's so inauthentic. And, you know, being your authentic self in front of the camera like that, it just is not entertaining. And it doesn't get eyeballs. And so. It's always been that way, right? I've had so much resistance doing that because of that. Because I know that firsthand, when I see any of these characters that are viral, that have millions of followers because of this persona, I instantly know that either one, this person can't be like this. They're not like that all the time. And if they are, they're stuck in that character, i.e. like Elliot Holtz and people like that that we've met that couldn't turn it off, right? It couldn't be normal. It's like, dude, you're not recording a YouTube video. We interviewed him and then we were done with the podcast still talking like that. You know, this is why I do what I'm like. So I actually, so I now, we turned down originally Leverking, but I actually reached out to him just recently and invited him on because I want to fucking see if he does that. And if he does that, I'm going to call his shit out on the podcast because that's what annoys me. It's like, I'd have more respect if you act normal and you tell me like, yeah, this is a complete character. I've created this person. Like when he, like he puts on the like lion's mane and then he becomes a character, but he takes it off. He's like, hey, what's up guys? How you doing? Right. Yeah. You know, my name is John Smith or whatever his name is, you know? That I would have way more respect. Yeah, I'd have way more respect if we could have a real conversation and you admit that like, yeah, this is a persona. This is a character. Yes, I'm acting on this. No, I'm not like this. Even if there are some truths, right? I'm sure the guy does. What's funny about this is that I think, you know who proved that you can do that? Back in the 80s, there was everybody speculated that wrestling was quote unquote fake in the sense that it was scripted, right? Everybody speculated. And then it came out that it was indeed scripted. In fact, God, what was his name? There was a reporter. I can't remember his name off the top of my head right now but he actually went backstage. Jimmy Hart. No, it was a putt. I remember who he was. I do. Who he was. John Stossel. Doug, maybe you can look this up on YouTube. John Stossel gets slapped by a pro wrestler. He went backstage. This was in the 90s, early 90s. This was when he was like a reporter and he goes up to, I don't remember who it was, was big wrestler. He was like a real reporter. He's not. He's a real reporter. And he goes, hey, you know, people are saying wrestling fake, it's fake. It's totally fake. And then the wrestler looked at him and he goes, is this fake? And he fucking smacks him. Hard, knocks him on the ground. And John Stossel's like, oh, and apparently he suffered like permanent ear damage. But anyway, my point is it came out that it was scripted. It stopped being kind of an open secret and they didn't lose sales. Their tickets still crushed. By the way, it's scripted but they're still hitting each other. They're still jumping off shit and landing. So my point is, like, Jujimufu came on our podcast. Did you just lean more into the entertainment side of it? Yeah, I remember Jujimufu came on our podcast. He was like a normal dude. That's why we liked him. Yeah. We liked him because he's like this. He wasn't like that. He's the perfect version of that. He's the perfect version of that. Nerdy dude who is like totally normal. And then he puts on this character when he gets on his. Well, he's genuinely excited to do these crazy feats, right? Like he's like, you know, he gets like pumped up about like, you know, setting it up and like shooting it and trying like to push himself to do all these like crazy, like superhuman things. Who's that wrestler that's not- Is that Ted DiBiossi? No. Is that the million-dollar man? No, no, no. Doug, you couldn't find it on YouTube. I'm looking for it. That is, oh, the wrestler's name. Is it Ted? No, it's not. Yeah. It's bigger than Ted. It's not the million-dollar man. Dr. D. David Schultz? Yeah. Is that right? Okay. Did you- I mean, okay, so along these lines though, Sal, like, so, okay, so like, what do you think of somebody like The Rock? Right. Oh, that he changed his name to The Rock? Well, no, just, no, just, okay. So he's loved by so many people that I mean, I believe he has a chance to run for president at one point. But I also believe that that dude is in character still. Oh, for sure. Of course. For sure. He acts like it. He totally acts like it. And so, like, we just think about millions of people that are in love with him as a person that we would probably vote him into presidency, and we will. Yeah, but hold on. Let me tell you why that's not a good comparison, because- What do you mean? Acting to politics to same shit. Oh, yeah. Yeah. All politicians are acting. You know what I mean? I mean, yeah, no, that's like- Hey, watch. It's David Schultz. So David Schultz is that big- I don't remember who that guy was. He was a big- What was his name in the- That guy right there. Oh, yeah. Now watch this. I remember this. You were watching- I remember this. Boom! Look at Max's ass on the ground, dude. I remember. He doesn't get it. Watch. Does this look fake? Ka-Chao! On the ground again. Terrible. He runs away. Is that fake? He runs away. I don't remember how much he was sued for that. A lot. Yeah, yeah. A lot. Because I guess he'd suffered from permanent, like, because I remember- Every reporter had, like, the best mustache back then. You know what I'm saying? Yeah, they did. We had somebody at our event that had a hell of a good stash like that. Oh, yeah. Your mustache covers your lip. Yeah. Like, you should get a prize. That's what I think. Yeah. You have that capacity. I could do that. Yeah, you got good mustache genetics. That's it. I don't. My mustache naturally separates- You look like Luigi or Hitler. It's like opposite. Wait a minute. Wait, opposite. I can't do that. Bro, he has a little- He said Luigi. How racist is that? He said Luigi. He said Luigi. How racist is that? Speaking of Hitler, I- Oh, Lord. Kanye, I tried to defend you for a while there. Hey, he's lost it. He literally lost his mind. Do you remember what I said about him being in a manic state? He's clearly manic. Oh, I can't. I can't. I can't. Well, okay, so- I know there's a conspiracy theory just about- And this is not defending him. This is not defending him, but maybe he's not manic. Maybe he is- No, he's manic. Well, so the other theory is that- I'm no doctor. He is just saying outlandish shit to try and get attention. Intentionally saying outlandish shit because it's what's going viral. Bro, you give celebrities so much credit every time they do something stupid. You're always like, They're doing it to get famous or make more money. I think they're crazy. I don't think it's giving them credit. I think they're so narcissistic. They know how to play the game better than anybody. Are you kidding me? Yeah, that's not a bad point. Yeah, I don't think it's- Kanye does fall in that category. Huh? He is a bit narcissistic. Oh, my God! Yo, who's saying it? Doesn't he call himself- Yeah, Jesus? You're gonna say a fucking guess, bro. I mean, I really believe- I mean, you want to talk about people that have been smelling their farts the most. Like, nobody does that more than celebrities do. And if you're really good and you're at the top, you know how to play the game. Yeah, well, he was diagnosed with some mental disorders before. That was disclosed. And he does exhibits. I'm not a doctor. He made- he made Alex Jones look nervous, dude. Bro, how do you do that? That was hilarious. How do you make Alex Jones- Alex Jones is gonna come back and be like, like, condemned basically everything he got without his show to talk about. Well, he was on the show. He's like, I say some crazy conspiracy shit, but nothing like that. This is ridiculous. So let me ask you guys this. Let's create a conspiracy theory right now, right? So Kanye already a little off before. And I'm not talking about right now. Now he went full. He went all the way on the deep end. Every human being has something of value that they brought to the table, especially Hitler. Always a little off, right? But maybe- Is he a plant? Maybe he was saying some shit that was a little bit like it was kind of like irking, you know, the people- the puppeteers, people pulling the strings. And someone like that, it's not hard to push him over the edge a little bit, right? It's not hard to like, when he goes to pick up his medications and give him the wrong medication. Or send him- He keeps messing with them. Subliminal messages or just press him because you know he's gonna break. You know what I'm saying? Yeah. So what if that's what's going on, Jesse? Well, I mean, look, the last thing I dropped about the video games. Like, look how easy it is for them to just put those subliminal messaging and things within what you're watching. Totally. Now, what if he- what if he's just trying to get as much crazy attention so he can bring light to some other crazy shit? Like, what's going on with Blinciaga? What if- If you don't need to bring light to that, it came out. Yeah, it didn't come out if it wasn't for him. What do you mean? The ads? You're talking about everything else he said. Bro, that nobody was- nobody was barking and talking about that until he came out first and the whole Blinciaga, him and Adidas and all that stuff came out. Wait, those ads? Those crazy ads? Nobody was looking- Nobody was talking about that. Nobody. That sucks. It all came out after his falling out with Blinciaga and then that came out. Dude, I think it's- That shit's been going on forever behind the scenes with them. You don't think that was like- What do you think that was art made up fucking just last week? Like, that had been going on behind the scenes. I'm baffled by like the type of selective outrage. Yes. In terms of- Yes. Bro. Why are we not more upset about kids being portrayed in certain ways in front of pedophiles? Yes. You'll have somebody who will tweet something and say something about climate change and everybody's going to cancel them. Then you've got this obscene bullshit with kids, which by the way, I need to say this real quick. Who the fuck are these kids' parents? Yeah. Who are these kids' parents? What kind of disgusting parents? The same that like bust them in to hang out with Michael Jackson. Like how depraved and disgusting and shitty of a parent are you? That's different, I think. To have your kid take a picture like that. Yeah. That's different. I mean, that's bad too. But I mean, you watched that doc. Did you not watch the doctor? Did you cut him off? Yeah, I did. I did watch him. Like some parents got really, they got wooed. You know what I'm saying? Like you got- Yeah, they were star chasers and they wanted to promote their kid. But like at the end of the day, you knew what he was about, dude. And you're letting them hang out like by themselves. Yeah. That's a bad parent. How disgusting. I mean, this is even worse though. What I think is crazy back to your selective outrage is how many people are giving Kim Kardashian a pass. She's making 2 million plus a year off of Lindsay Audnet. When this all came out, was silent for like four or five days. Dude, just cut your ties. And then comes out and puts this like total PC type of like tweet. Yeah. In response to it, trying to like dance both sides. And then she keeps her fucking partnership. Yeah, I know. And how are people- Why? Because you don't have enough money already. Right. She's already- It's ridiculous. Filthy rich. It's like you, like one of us passing on one of our smallest sponsors because we found out something about it that's paying us freaking dirt money and you- and then we'd still stick with them. Yeah. Like what the fuck? No, I don't know man. Makes no sense. Well, it does if you think that there's other connections and shit that it can lead to. Well, speaking of connections and this kind of brings me into another like interesting kind of conspiracy float now. So there was a guy that was a crypto billionaire. I want to subscribe to the magazine that you get. Where is this magazine? People send me them now. Like they know I'm- Yeah. You know what, Justin? Before we say that, I want to comment something on the selective outrage. Did you guys know that Apple in China? Because there's a bunch of protests going on in China? Like a lot? Yeah. Apple disabled their airdrop and disabled ways of sharing in China to prevent citizens from communicating about the protests- That's awful, man. You know that they were told by the Chinese government to do that. Apple. Yeah. Nobody gives a shit. Bro, I had Apple news to talk about and you just transitioned just like this. That's okay. I want to hear what he's gonna say. He's gonna talk to me. Pink pong and then we'll go to that one. He should have waited because I wanted to talk about Apple. Go ahead. We had such a smooth thing going on. Yeah. So this guy is a crypto billionaire, right? Apparently like puts out a tweet that like, you know, CIA, Massad, whatever. Like they're on to me and, you know, like I may not make it through the night. I forget the tweet. It was like something along those lines. And then basically they find him quote unquote drowned in- because he was trying to expose like in Puerto Rico and like all this like like child trafficking and stuff. And so he, he's dead. And like he literally like was tweeting about it beforehand to kind of announce to people like, Hey, pay attention. Like I won't kill myself. Yeah. And I'm not going to kill like that kind of thing. And then he drowns conveniently. And he just drowns. Yeah. How was that? I don't even see how that's a conspiracy theory. Yeah. If someone said to tweet right that I'm not going to kill myself. And they do. And they do. It's because they're scared to death and then they get killed. Like how much more evidence? Those are the ones I pay attention to, right? Like it's, it's not, it's, it's kind of like, well, this is, this is just like, I'm, I'm, I'm paying attention and I'm watching how things are transpiring. Did either one of you guys actually watch the just lane series on Netflix? No. Oh yeah. What? I know. He told me about it. He told me about it. I haven't seen it. It's on Netflix. It's already past conspiracy now. It's like people know. Right. We're into the shit that. No. We're in the underground stuff. Yeah. Yeah. No, I see that. I see what, what she came from and then how she got into, got into all that and everything like that. But we can talk about it after you guys watch it. But Apple. You want to hear some Apple rumors? Yes. Um, they have potential. Like you, you heard of the shakeup at Disney, right? With, uh, Iger and, uh. Yeah. So the CEO came back. Yes. And he is one of the ones that is most likely to potentially sell Disney. The rumor is that Apple may be the one buying Disney. Imagine the power of the two of them. I mean, they would, if you combine their forces, they now would have a third of like the streaming power. That's true. And by the way, this is moving in the direction of what I said for the longest time that eventually there'll be like monopolies that will have all the streaming services. We won't have all this, all the cart. It's not going to last. And this is, and this is the speculation is that just like what happened to the phone business, right? At one point we had like 10 different types of cell phone or cell phone companies, AT&T, the single, all the, all these different ones that we had, there's like three now. So the same thing's going to happen in streaming. Like I said at the beginning is you have all this, all the cart right now. And then now the big, some, some big monsters are going to team up so they can have control of that many people. So I'm confused with the whole Disney thing because it's always back and forth. Like, oh, they're hurting because of like the last numbers of this movie flop or their parks aren't really like back up to what they're running. And then I'll hear like completely opposite information like, oh, they're crushing it and there's streaming service. Okay, Disney got hurt. Like they had some rough times, but they were, I mean, Disney to me is still up there with Apple as far as strong like good business models, good companies. Like it's funny. We have these tech companies that aren't even profitable that we value at billions of dollars. I'm talking about how amazing they are. And they're not even like cash rich. And then you have companies like Apple that are extremely cash rich, Disney's cash rich. I mean, they are literally collecting tickets in their parks and selling merchandise. So a couple of things about that first is that it wouldn't be a monopoly, a real monopoly. No, it's not exactly a monopoly. You're just saying that there's going to be bigger companies, sure. But remember, this is unlimited bandwidth because we're talking about internet. So unlike other spaces that are heavily regulated, where there's high barriers to enter into the market, that's where you see much more of these massive companies gobbling up smaller ones. Listen, my argument isn't about like, I'm not like trying to tell everybody worry about a monopoly. My point is that that's what I saw very beginning. Like it would go that way. That eventually a couple of smart big companies would get together and be like, listen, together, we can dominate this. And that's what you're going to see. Yeah, sure. You'll see some, you'll see combinations, but you're going to continue to see lots of, I'll tell you what, one of the biggest mistakes people make with markets, especially ones that are open, is they say, oh, this company is never going anywhere. There's no way that they could possibly get beat. And we always see this every single time that that actually is not true. For example, there's that new AI bot that people are talking about right now, the startup company. They're saying you can't even tell that it's, it's an AI bot that's talking to you. And they're saying this will overtake Google. Google, nobody would ever dare to say that. Yeah, but I see, okay. I don't, they say it's going to take over Google, but Google is also leading in that, in that technology and in that space. And they have some of the best of the best when it comes to engineers and like, so. I don't know. I mean, some of the smartest people in the space are saying it. You know, I have a cousin who works very heavily with it. Well, I think, okay. So I think the people that are saying that, I will all in discuss that on the last All In podcast. And it, what they're saying is not so much that it's going to take over the company Google. It's how we search through Google is what it'll take over. That's what I mean. But Google could still own it. So Google could create that technology. And they're already the leaders in search with YouTube and Google that they're most likely to be the ones to take advantage of that technology. Not another company that's going to surpass them because they don't have all the... We'll see because that's what we said with social media. At one point, Facebook was so big and so strong. And then they, you know, and then TikTok came. And then, you know, other social media companies came. And so I think it's going to be very interesting. I think if we see lots of regulation, where we make the barriers into the market really, really high, that's when you're going to see these companies stick around forever. But it's such a big bandwidth. It's really interesting. It's almost impossible to predict how companies stick around because we can't predict innovation. Like it's hard for me. Like we can't sit here and think, what's the next crazy invention or innovative thing that's going to happen? I mean, if we could, then we would be the ones... What are you seeing? Like more and more AI kind of coming in and creating things with art and with music and, you know, now with search engines and things. It'd be interesting to see like where we're going to be in like a couple years. You see that, what is it? Jenna, I think it's the app or whatever that everyone's doing right now. What is that? And I think you said something off air that I totally agree with is like, I'm so hesitant to just jump on the bandwagon of stuff like this with like, people are so funny how quick they do it. After that face one, that was... I just feel like they're going to take all my pictures and all my shit off my phone, just like that old, like AGU app. The one from like Russia. Aren't we funny creatures? How easily we are manipulated to give that information just so I can look cool on Instagram? That's fucking hilarious to me, right? It is funny. None are more hopelessly enslaved than those who falsely believe they are free. That's a very true quote. I think that rings very true today. Oh, is that Voltaire? I don't know. Maybe look that up. Well, who's Voltaire? Doug's gonna have to look at it. Voltaire. Yeah, I just remember the quote with Adam. Don't push me. Oh, sorry. I can't remember much more about it. I mean, who is it that said that, Doug? Let's see. Van Gogh. Okay. Sorry. Johann Wufeng Van Gogh. There you go. You know what's interesting about the Apple thing with Disney? Steve Jobs started, was with Apple. Then he left and then he started Pixar. Pixar got bought by Disney. Now Disney's looking to go with Apple. So the speculation is that, that's part of the speculation is that he's always had, he's always had an infinity for Disney. Affinity? Affinity. Yeah. With Disney and a relationship with them. And beyond. And if he was still around, that he would be likely to sign with them. You think that's funny? No. No, no. You didn't hear Justin. You said infinity. You said it beyond. No. I did. I totally did. Sorry. I had to. That's interesting. So that was, that's the speculation that it's over. Yeah. Yeah. So that's a huge possibility. You also hear the news on Amazon doing, so there was all this stuff about, you know, I love, I would love watching what's going on with Elon and Twitter right now. It's so. Oh my God. It's so great. It's, did you see the post that Mike did the other day and all the hate he got? Definitely. Our friend, Mike Matthews. No. Yeah. He did a post about it and I'm on Mike's side on this. Like I am, I am just loving watching this. And I mean, I don't know Elon, but as, as a serial entrepreneur, I like him like, side his who I don't know enough. He's objectively. Just seeing I did a good video on it too. Just on the overall, what it takes to actually run a business. I think people just like are completely unaware, you know, and for him to be kind of have these harsh standards and get people all to have buy-in. That's a huge thing. He's objectively the greatest entrepreneur of the, of the modern times. Okay. And that, and I can, I can say that, right? Yes. I can say that. Yeah. You're not saying he's a great guy. Great. Yeah. Right. You know, you're just dick riding him. And oh, you're just like every other bro that thinks he's just, it's like, no, it's like, have you not seen what the dude has built? Yeah. You're not saying you're letting him babysit your kids. You're just saying, he's a crazy good entrepreneur. That's for damn sure. So I hang out with my wife for sure. Yeah. He's got baby fever dude, watch out. Him and Dick Cannon are going to, are going to gank his company. Anyways, anyways, I totally got a sidetracked with that. Sorry. I mean, there was all this stuff that came out just last week the week before about everybody dropping their advertising on Twitter. Yeah. Guess what? They're all coming back. Yeah. Amazon just announced that they're back to advertising with Twitter and that they're going to spend over a hundred million dollars. Money talks man. Oh my goodness. I tell you man, I'm happy I went on Twitter after I got booted off Instagram. I feel like it was like serendipitous because that's the place to be. I'm telling you. Go through there right now. It's real cool kids. It's a good time. So is the $8 blue check thing official yet? I have no idea. I have zero idea. Yeah. I know that they said they were going to do it. Do you know if it's a thing done? I don't know. That was so terrible. This is why we hire young people to work with us. Andrew, do you know? Yeah, exactly. I'm way too old for this. Andrew's still tall. You're already getting too old and worthless. We're going to have to get a. I'm on. I'm on. I'm on. I'm on. I'm on. I'm on. I'm on. I'm on. I'm on. I'm on. I'm on. I'm on. I'm on. I'm on. I'm on. I'm on. I'm on. I'm on. I'm on. So when you think we're on the stage, it's just not just some LED light. Lightful somal technology. So I wrote down some notes because live-mons, supplements use light also more technologies. Pharmaceutical technology used in very few supplements, but it's also used in pharmaceuticals. So their tiny vesicles that are made out of the same material as your body's cell membrane. So when you place supplements inside the lyposomes, they can be used to safely deliver the is in there from your digestive system and it delivers more of the compound to those selective tissues. Do you know how, okay, so that used to be a thing that you would talk trash about, certain supplements, is you would take these supplements and the stomach acid alone would eat up most of it before you even got to the areas it's supposed to. So that was a common thing that like people would talk trash about. Well, think about it this way. When I eat a fruit or a vegetable or meat, the nutrients that are found in those things are in the food, which contains the fibers, the fats, the proteins. And so we evolved to extract nutrients from food. We have to break down material first. Right, so when I just take a multivitamin or a supplement and it doesn't come in something similar or in a way that can survive through my digestive tract or get it to the right place, it just gets destroyed or I just pee it out. This is why supplementing sometimes a certain nutrients you get to supplement such higher doses to get your blood levels up higher versus getting them from food, for example. So liposomal technology kind of does that, right? And again, it's this pharmaceutical technology and Live on Labs uses it in all of their products. Do you know how much more though, like it protects to getting to those areas, like in percentage wise? No, I didn't pull up any studies on it, but I do know that it's more expensive, obviously, to use it. That's why not everybody does it. Pharmaceutical companies will use it specifically because it's super effective. So it's like a proven technology. It's not some like hype or whatever. I love about their company who's just spent all their money on like the form and function of it. Like they're all about the efficiency of it. No money left on flavor. Yeah, no, no, it does. I mean, that's why I've always been okay with saying that is I feel like that's the truth. I really think they said that their goal was not, we want to compete with the best tasting, whatever. It's like, yeah, what is going to be the best at delivering these nutrients? Dude, I got to study for you guys. That's kind of crazy. Doug, did you find something that you want to? Yeah, so it doesn't look like they went through with the $8 check mark. It's not. Yeah, they announced it and then they kind of rolled back. Okay, so that was just... All right, so check this out, dude. This is... AOC one, I guess, huh? This just came out last month and this was out of Israel's big study and it's data from 53 countries shows that men in the regions that they tested are experiencing a significant decline in total sperm counts and sperm concentrations. So this is getting really bad. So they looked at New York, Denmark, Brazil, Spain, Israel and the USA and they did a meta-analysis. And you're talking about... So overall, we're seeing a significant worldwide... This is a quote, right? Decline in sperm counts of over 50% in the last 46 years. Dang. And this decline has accelerated in recent years, half. So 46 years ago, which everybody's like, that's a long time ago. That's not that long ago. That's a generation. They had 50% more sperm than they do now. So if that happens again and again, we're done. Like, we're not gonna be, we're gonna be infertile. We won't be able to reproduce. Well, there's tiny taints out there. This is messed up. Dude, this is literally... The scientists, this is a quote, you ready for this? Our findings serve as a canary in a coal mine. We have a serious problem on our hands that if not mitigated, could threaten humankind's survival. We urgently call for global action to promote in healthier environments for all species and reduce exposures and behaviors that threaten our reproductive health. So this is wild. This is insane. Do you believe we're moving towards a homogenous society? Do you think we're really pushing in that direction? I mean, that's what it's looking like, dude. And how dangerous do you think like the, like what we're dealing with with these certain states that are allowing kids to change their gender at such a young age? Do you think this is making this, well, I mean, it's part of it, right? I mean, how can we not go there? I feel like... I think that's a different, I think that's my speculation on that might be a little different. I think that identity crisis... You don't think those are connected? With low sperm count? I mean, it's a good question. I don't know, maybe. I will say that kids have always had identity crisis. We all went through it. Every kid goes through it when you're an adolescent and teen. I think that the options now for making yourself feel more comfortable or have changed. So, whereas before you might be like, well, I'm gonna identify as a skater or I'm a tomboy or I like music. Now it's like, well, I'm this, I'm that. And very socially influenced for sure. Yeah. So there seems to be something going along with that. But this whole fertility thing is interesting because it keeps going down this route. It may mean in the relatively near future that the only way people are gonna reproduce is by going through a fertility crisis. Well, let me ask you this. How much do you think that's connected to low testosterone with people with grip strength and masculinity? And so, I guess that's where I'm trying to make that connection there is like this push against masculinity and we're moving in this direction of like, oh, maybe you're not a boy, maybe you're a girl, maybe, and I feel like that narrative has become more popular today than it was just a decade ago. And are there any correlations between the two or do you think they're completely? Well, I think it's all, I mean, there's a cultural thing that's happening, but it's hard to separate from what might be happening, I guess physiologically. I do know that mental illness has exploded among kids. Anxiety and depression has completely exploded since the pandemic. In fact, I was talking to a friend of mine that's a psychiatrist. And I asked them specifically, have you seen this rise in kids? And he said, oh, he goes, it was kind of steadily climbing, but during and after the pandemic, he's like, it's insane. He's rampant. Yeah, he says, because a lot of, when you're a kid, you're in your head a lot anyway, you don't feel like you fit in. It's challenging, everybody knows that. Everybody's just challenging. But these kids were shut down at home. They were isolated by themselves a lot nowadays as well. And so it's more internal. It's even more internal and it just blows up whatever bad feelings you have. And so he's like, yeah, it's just terrible. Plus they're not active. So we know this exercise, diet, strongly contributes to feelings of wellbeing and mental health. That all went to shit. And then in combination with isolation, I mean, this is crazy. But the fertility thing is literally a humankind ending event. That's what people need to realize. This is not just like, oh my God, this sucks. This is literally, if it dropped 50% in 46 years, we are looking at potentially transforming mankind for the negative in a very short future where, and this, look, okay, so you know that clip when I was on, what's Josh's trans podcast? It's Wellness or Wisdom? Wellness and Wisdom. Wellness and Wisdom. There's that clip of me saying the biggest lie. Yeah, the biggest lie told the man, basically it's that. You got some hate for that, huh? I got a lot of positive, more than hate, but there's some people that don't like it because they don't wanna, they wanna believe the lie, right? That getting married sucks, that devoting yourself to one person sucks, that having kids is terrible, that it's way better if you don't be free, go do what you want, bang chicks, buy cars, make money, consume, consume, consume. That's a big lie. And it's interesting. I wonder how much of that is connected to this drop in fertility and this drop. In other words, like they're trying to sell us on it because this is gonna be the future anyway, where moving forward, the only people gonna have kids are the people gonna afford crazy fertility treatment and freezing their sperm and doing all that stuff. Like that's, that could be our kid's generation, by the way. That's how fast it's going down, so. That's wild to me. Where that's the only time you'll have kids. You know, I try and remember what, because it wasn't that long ago that I was on the other side of that conversation. And I do remember when people would press the kids talk to me, I do remember feeling defensive and I do remember saying things like, oh, this misery loves company, that's what that is. You know, I used to be like that. Why, if kids are so wonderful, so great, why do you feel the need that you have to get me to join your team? And why can you just enjoy your kids and be that way? Because I love my, and I used to love my life. And I used to do that to you, but by the way, if you were a shitty person, I would not tell you to have kids. Yeah, well, I... You're a good guy, you make a great dad. That's why I used to tell you all the time. I don't say that to shitty people. What I'm trying to do right now is my best to recall those feelings that I had and to try and unpack what's going through some of these people's heads when they comment on something like that. And I do, I remember feeling a little defensive when people tried to tell me how much better my life would be. Like, you don't know who I am. You don't know how great my life is already. Like, what makes you think... And I also would connect it to, there's a lot of people that have kids and their life gets worse. That's a fact, man. There's people that it gets harder and they are shitty dads and they don't see their kids and now they just have another human they brought in this world that hates them and resents them because they're not present. Would their life be better without kids? That's the question I always have because people like using those examples of really shitty people who are really shitty with their kids. I think they're probably shitty ass people to begin with. And I don't think it would have been better. And I'm also, yes, of course we could pick... There's lots of people that, you know, if you look at them and you go, man, you should not be a parent. By the way, just getting someone pregnant, that's not what I'm talking about. When I say being a dad or being a mom, I mean, you actively care for and you're trying to raise this kid. Now that you just got someone pregnant, anymore on could do that. That's not what I talk about when I talk about this. But look, this is a fact, okay? If you're lucky enough to live a long life, if you're healthy and you can live to your 80 or 90, you better have something that you love more than yourself or you're screwed and that's it. So fine, you don't want to have kids. What do you have in your life that you truly love more than yourself? And people are like, my career, bullshit. It's not your career. It's so hard to tell somebody that that doesn't because we talked about this just the other day at the live event. I was talking to somebody about what was most surprising to me when I had my son was that was the first time in my life in 40 years or damn, 39, whatever it was that I had realized that, oh shit, I have never loved anything more than myself. But if you would have asked me before that, oh, I love Katrina more than me. I love my mom more than me. Oh, I love my siblings more than me. Like I would say that, but until you actually feel what that feels like, I don't think you realize it because I didn't realize it. And I would have had an answer for someone who says like, oh, I love my career. Like, no, I don't. Yeah, it's true. And there are people that, and I do want to put here, there are people that don't have kids that do truly love something more than themselves. They're typically volunteers. They typically are really so like they're a monk or they go volunteer for this cause that they just deeply believe in or they're deeply religious. Like that's where you tend to find it. But most people who say, oh, I, you know, no, I love these other things. They're not that. And the other thing I say is, what the hell else are you gonna do with the rest of your life? Like for reals, you're gonna live a long time and you're going to not potentially develop the deepest relationships you could possibly develop. Like I have great relationship with you guys, great relationship with my wife. When you get to have a child and you can from birth till whenever, and then their grandchildren, that's a relationship that you'll never, that is the deepest potential relationship you could ever have in your entire life and you'll never experience that. And that's a sad thing. So it's a huge lie. Now, here's the truth. It's harder, cost more money, it's more stressful. That's true. But most things that are good are harder, more stressful and cost more money. Most things. Well, not to mention it's the only way I'm aware of for you to potentially live on beyond your death. I mean, like it's an extent, your kids are an extension of you and what you pour into them to make them a better version of yourself is the closest thing that I could think of that allows you to live beyond your death. Yeah. I mean, because a part of you, I mean, Jesus, anybody who's had a kid is it's wild when you see yourself in them, you know, with things that just are ingrained, it's in their DNA. They didn't, you didn't teach it even. Like there's times where I catch moments where like my son will do something that like I haven't even taught him that. But that's me, you know, or that's Katrina. Like that's so wild when you think about that. Like that is definitely a part of you is in this thing that is going to live on beyond you. I do get the tremendous responsibility on why people, maybe they're not honest with themselves. Maybe some people are honest with themselves and they don't want to take on such a tremendous responsibility. That was me. That was definitely. I get it. That was me. I didn't want. It's a big deal. And I think we should think of parenting like that. I think we should think of children like that. I think you should think of it as not like, it's not like getting a dog. It's not like, you know, picking up a hobby. It's literally you're going to impact somebody like that. I think it's so important that you think about that. That's why I probably overcompensated in that area. I overthought it because of my past that I was like, I'm not this. I'm not that I need to have. So I probably overcompensated, I'm sure. But, I mean, I feel like better that than the other way, better that than to think it's going to be easy, no big deal and you just have them to have them and then you're not present. You're not around and you don't do shit. Like, to me, that's worse. Yeah. The decision to have a kid doesn't end. You know, it's not like you did it. Oh, I'm here. Yeah, I did it. Oh no. There's a lot of work and a lot of growth and growth only happens when you're uncomfortable. And I mean, I don't know of anything that'll make it more uncomfortable than, you know, having that reflection back at you for the next however many decades. Yeah, I definitely think that our culture in general could do a better job of, I guess, portraying parenthood and the value of it. And I think that that's something that's been lost in a lot of content and a lot of things we see on TV. And, you know, just because it is hard and it is challenging and it is a big responsibility. But just like you said, much like anything else. They sell it terribly. Media sells it as a shitty thing. It's interesting they do because, I mean, in our lifetime, we've seen that switch. It wasn't like that when we were kids or definitely not our parents like growing up. Like fatherhood was like a... It started happening. There's a lot of pride, you know, associated with it. What do you think was the tipping point? Like when did, do you think Hollywood controlled it that much? Do you think Hollywood made the decision that... I think, yes. We're gonna make playboys. You see married with children. You see like all these dumb ass dads. That's what I'm saying. They 100% play a role. So what I'm asking is, are they the ones that made that switch? Like who decided that being a dad was no longer going to be cool anymore? Or something that is like... Listen, if you're trying to sell products... Like honorable. You're trying to sell products. You know that the best people to sell to are not people who are really concerned about raising little kids. Is that the thought? Oh, my God. Is that the thought? 100%. Or is that that you're more likely to have more money to spend because they don't have children? That's part of it. So that's why we wanna go after it. That's part of it. You make different decisions. You're less selfish. You're way harder to manipulate. Like let me ask you guys this. How much harder are you to manipulate with scared tactics? Well, even the money thing you just said, I think it's really... Look how much it changed you. It's interesting how I spend money today now just because I had a kid like... And it wasn't like I had this formal conversation with myself. I'm gonna now do this. I'm just naturally just starting to do it. It's wild. So that's an interesting thought. Your spending habits do change for sure. Oh, big time. Your spending habits change. It's harder to manipulate you. It's harder to make you feel like super shitty to do certain things. So was it even before, though, Hollywood? Maybe it's just advertising in general. It started. So think of like the Marble Man. Yeah. You know? Like the Renegade guy that's just out there. You know, he's all about himself. I wish I'd dug. You're the one that has the most insight because in all the years. Like what would you say was the turning point? Like do you remember? Like you watched probably the Andy Griffith show when you were a kid, no? You know, I didn't watch TV when I was a kid. Oh, you didn't? I didn't have a TV. Okay, you're obviously familiar with it. I am familiar with it. You know what TV is, Doug? I do, yes. It's that magical box. The picture box. I mean, so... The light show. Honestly, I couldn't give you a time or a situation. Because I mean, I would mark that time. Would you guys agree that the Andy Griffith show, the Leave It To Beaver era, was still fatherhood, family is cool, right? And dad was... And then when, in that timeline... Maybe it was in the 80s? Yep, I would agree. I would think it's, you know, Homer Simpson, like you said, married with children, the bumbling dad. Yep, 100%. And it's... I feel like we just jumped decades though. Well, I'm trying to get closer to the shift. The bigger the market became for consumers, the more that it became obvious. Every ancient wisdom or old tradition, or old, should I say, culture, a person's, a lot of a person's value was placed on how many kids you have. Are you, do you take care of your family, you know? Like, oh, what are you doing going out all night? Aren't you supposed to be home taking care of your family? Aren't you supposed to be loyal to these people? Like, that's how it used to be. Now it's like, and then women are lied terribly too. They're told it's oppressive, which is unbelievably a massive lie. I would say even like, so 60s and 70s, a little bit more self-indulgence, more psychedelics, more like, you know, free love and like less like, you know, timing down to traditional family, nuclear family, you know, type of mentality. It started to kind of spawn off from there, I would say. Yeah, I think I would say the Marxism played a big role because there's an economic Marxism and they got their asses kicked, obviously during the Cold War, so they moved the culture. And the message was that having, that the state should own children, having children is oppressive, that your parents are the state and that's who you should listen to. So I do think it's gonna come back though. I do believe it's gonna be cool again. I do believe, and I think- We're definitely on the extreme other end of that right now. And I don't know if it's gonna get a little worse still before guys, because we're pretty dumb as humans. Like, it takes us a while. It takes a couple of slaps in the face to get everybody to wake up. Tell me you guys don't see this massive trend in men getting vasectomies at like 20, 30 years old. What a, I mean, I can't believe- That's funny you brought that up, that is true. It's been in my experience, yeah, I've never experienced that before. Before they're even like locked into a relationship or anything, it's like they're just like, you know, taking care of that. So it's like, it allows for this like freedom of self-discovery or whatever. However you want to brand it, but it's interesting to me. Yeah, no, that's 100%. Can you look that up, though? It's crazy. I'm curious about that. The increase in vasectomies, is it like if we can see the stats on that? Because you're right, Justin, in just the last decade, I'd say I know way more people that are doing that before the age of 30 than I ever did in a month. Now, mind you, I'm older and I have older friends so maybe that plays more of a role. I'm sure there's some sort of a bias there. But that would be interesting to see if there's a rise in that. Yeah, actually between 2020 and 2021, there's been close to a 20% increase in the number of childless men under 30 requesting vasectomies. Wow. You know, but there's a lot of things that feed into this. Bro, 20% in one year increase? Yeah, yeah. Yeah, in one year. Between 2020 and 2021, that's substantial. So there's a lot of things feeding into this. One of these is that humans are a parasite or a virus. I've seen all these people are like, humans should disappear so the earth can flourish. Wow. What are you saying? So you think that's a little bit even related to the climate stuff. Everything, everything, it's like, it's so bad. Like how many people have you heard say this? Why would I have kids when we're just polluting this earth and destroying it? Or why'd I have kids in this terrible place? Well, here's why, so you could raise good people. Yeah. Like you wanna fix things, raise good people that are gonna innovate, work hard. Also you used to be a kid. Be honest, yeah. Yeah, here's another. We should maybe, I don't understand, okay, go ahead. Yeah, so after the Roe versus Wade, there was a staggering increase of over at 850% for the search term. Where can I get a vasectomy? Oh, okay. So I mean, so I think that's another cause for that. Maybe. Interesting. Yeah, interesting. Yeah, very interesting. Well, I mean, you can wear a condom. Yeah. There's measures. Yeah, you know, cause vasectomy to protect you from STDs. Isn't that interesting? Yeah. People don't think too much sometimes. We have Caldera's at another commercial day. Oh dude, did I tell you guys? I saw a random dude, probably in his 50s using it at the gym. He actually pulled that out of his bag and was putting it on. Yeah, and I'm like, hey, how do you like him? And he's like, oh, I really like it. This and that. And I'm like, you know, where'd you hear about it? And I was hoping he would say, like, do you recognize me? You know. The journeyman, actually. No, no, no. But he was, I've now seen it. That's the second time now I've seen it out. They're obviously, they're making a huge push advertising-wise right now because I've had a handful of people and I've brought it up I think before that are like friends from Katrina's like old work or like a friend of a friend who doesn't know me that well or what that. And then, but the scene that has seen us on the commercial and like, oh my God, Adam's famous. I saw him on the street, right? Because of their, them and Viori, their two commercials, they've been pushing those so hard that I've had like a small wave of people that have come in that were just unaware of what we even did that are now like seeing us on their commercials. Yeah, no, I've seen it a few times now. It's good stuff. I think they're blowing up. Doug, are you consistently using the I stuff? Every day. You are now. Okay, so what is your route? Okay, because you're using like me, you're using, I'm not, that's the only one I'm not consistently using. So I use the, I think it's clean slate is what I use in the shower to wash your face with. Yes. Then I use the, what's the cream called? Boy, yeah, right there. It's called- The base layer. Base layer. Yeah, base layer. And then the serum. Yeah. When do you use the eyelid stuff? So I use the good, which is the oil at night. Okay. So today I do the clean slate in the shower and I use the cream and then I do the I stuff after that. You don't have the serum on right now? No, I don't. Wow. You look beautiful. Yeah, you look like you're glowing. Well, thank you. Hey Doug, I sent you- Good lighting in here. Real quick, just to end this off, I just have to show this picture. I think Justin will crack up at it. Can you pull up this picture I sent to the group text? This is a picture post snowball fight, Princeton versus, a Princeton freshman versus sophomore snowball fight in 1893. Okay, so eight, look at these guys faces. Scroll down one. Oh. Those weren't snowballs. Those were right at all, dude. Oh, hey. With rocks. We're talking about how much, no, times of change. So like, that's a snowball fight. Spirms swimming around there, dude. That's a legit snowball fight. Hey, we can't hang up either before. One of you guys recommend some of you guys have some. Oh, Arthur Brooks. I gotta mention Arthur Brooks. I know we've talked about him before. I love him. He's gotta be- What is his, is he, does he tweet more or Instagram more where you follow him the most? Both, but I went on his Instagram and here's a wonderful quote that he said. Arthur Brooks, he's a professor. Is that what his Instagram handle is? He writes for the Atlantic. This is Arthur Brooks. Yeah, so Arthur C. Brooks is his Instagram. Check out this quote. It's very nice. The secret to happiness isn't falling in love. It's staying in love, which depends on what psychologists call compassionate love, love based less on passionate highs and lows and more on stable affection, mutual understanding and commitment. And again, he's an expert on happiness. So great page. If you want to feel good, he's one of the few social media pages that you can go to and feel better after coming off the covers. Oh, absolutely. Hey, what's up? You gotta check out one of our longest running sponsors, Organifi. They make organic performance enhancing body enhancing supplements. I actually helped design the latest product called Peak Power. If you like pre-workout supplements, but you want one that's natural, that's not gonna make you feel overly stimulated, something that's gonna give you smooth, consistent energy that lasts no crash, Peak Power, give it a try. It'll blow away the pre-workout that you're currently used to. They also have other products, but that's the one I'm recommending right now. Go check them out. Go to organifi.com. That's O-R-G-A-N-I-F-I.com forward slash mind pump. And then use the code mind pump for 20% off. All right, here's the rest of the show. Our first caller is Steven from Pennsylvania. Steven, what's happening, man? How can we help you? Hi, guys. Hi. Yeah, it's awesome to be on. Thank you for having me. I was at your guys' live event in Ohio a few years ago. Yeah, yeah. Yeah, I only got to meet South because the lines are so long, but it's really cool to be on with all of you guys. He tends to have the shorter line, so we're all pretty popular. Sorry about that. I got that in before I could say that. Sorry about that. Yeah, I'll hop in. So I'm 27 years old. I've been conventionally weight training for about 12 years now without really taking any time off. The most time I've ever taken off is about 12 days for my wedding just recently. I'm a trainer. I check my calories and food accurately and consistently both to about 13 to 15% body fat. I do about 8% body fat and have a lot of experience with training, nutrition in general. Six foot two, I'm actually about 205 pounds right now with a total of 102 pounds of skeletal muscle mass currently plus or minus 11% body fat since I'm bulking at the moment. I've gone through maps, maps, anabolic, aesthetic, split, parallel performance. I just recently started maps strong, so about two months in or a little less than that. And I've noticed my body's getting pretty beat up, like more than usual. Lower back seems to be more sore than usual, assuming that's because of the amount of hip hinging, but I've also noticed some excessive joint pain in my shoulders and elbows. So I was wondering if you guys have any advice on how to mitigate the potential for injury and excessive joint strain with a higher volume and programmed with heavier compound lifts, like maps strong and where do you think I would benefit most moving forward? Yeah, no, it's common. Probably pulling back on the work sessions a little bit, yeah. That's it. I mean, anytime you're doing a workout and you're starting to notice the signs that you're not recovering fully and you start to get joint pain you feel like you're overworked. The first thing I would do is reduce the intensity and the second thing I would do is reduce the volume. Or you could do both at the same time. You could take the volume and intensity down to significantly, so I would cut the volume down by like a third, cut the intensity down by a good third and then do that for a little while until you start feeling really good. When we create the programs, we create them for kind of a general avatar, but you gotta listen to your body and there's lots of circumstances that can change in your life that can make a program more or less suitable. So I'm not saying this is you, but perhaps sleep is different than it was before. Maybe there's more stress in your life, diet, maybe not as good or it's just too much volume and intensity, cumulative for your body and the answer is not to eat more, push harder, work through it. The answer is to scale back, bring it back and give yourself a good three, four weeks of that until you're feeling really, really good. And what'll happen in that scale back period is actually you'll actually find yourself building muscle and getting stronger. And the reason why I'm saying that is a lot of times people think scaling back means reducing their potential for results. Studies are quite clear on this that the deload weeks or the taking time off when somebody's training really hard is when they typically see the most gains. So it's exciting on both avenues. You feel better and you'll start to see progress simultaneously. Yeah, there's no like one answer for this because there is a lot of different things you do. You mentioned low back and then attributing that probably to a lot of the hip pain. There is definitely a lot of posterior chain work and strong super aware of that. And so, I mean, one way would it be to take a lot of those compound lifts and scale back one set. Another way would be like if there is a simple, it was one exercise that you find way more taxing than others, maybe replace that with something. This is where I would use maybe machines or maybe like an isometric type of exercise or a different movement all together to replace one of those movements that you feel we're taxing. Another option would be to look at the work sessions because I know in strong the work sessions are probably... They're harder than the foundational ones. Yeah, they're the most intense, you know, off quote unquote, off foundational days that I think we have in any of our programs. And so that's probably where I would look is I'd probably be like, I'd really pull back. Maybe I would completely eliminate the way they're programmed and actually sub in like a prime pro type of or like trigger sessions instead of work sessions. Yeah, trigger or... Yeah, because I agree. I think it's probably the most demanding program we have in terms of like in combination on those frequency builder days. Like we up the intensity in terms of, you know, those work sessions are pretty exhausting, pretty demanding. And then on top of that, all that emphasis on posterior chain on, you know, the foundational day. So I would investigate in that and like maybe replace it with some trigger session or some mobility focus. Yeah, Steven, literally cut the vol, cut the intensity, cut the volume and give yourself about three weeks of that and see how you feel. And I'll bet you that you'll feel stronger and actually put on a little bit of muscle through that process. Okay. Do you guys have any advice or like recommendations for like replacing dead lists because I have dead lists today. And I mean, my lower back is definitely pretty shot. My, I take a lot of like pride in my form, like how, like how well I, my technique is, but I don't know why, but I think it is just the hip hinging and close to your chain work, but I don't know if I should just cut them out completely and like to like the second movement. I don't know if you guys like, I've had a hard time finding a direct replacement for them. Well, how about single leg? I was just going to say, how about do some single leg right now? I would do single leg toe touches without resistance in fact. Okay. Or light dumbbell type of work with that. I mean, it depends. If your back's really feeling it, that's what I do. Yeah. If my back's really feeling it with dead lifts, I'll do single leg toe touches and go slow and balance. And I won't use any resistance other than my body. And that usually does the trick for me. Do you have map symmetry by the way? I do not. That would be the program I would follow next. And then do you, do you have prime pro or prime? I have both, yeah. Okay, good. I would do prime pros kind of mobility work. If you do cut out a work session, you can make it like a 45 minute mobility session with stuff from prime pro, but symmetry would be where I go next for sure. Okay, cool. All right, man. Awesome. I do have a follow up real quick. So my wife who introduced me to you guys for a couple of years ago, she's a kettlebell coach. And I know you guys got this question, I think a few weeks ago I think I remember, but she is really hoping you guys can put together like an unconventional training program. I've had a lot of questions for that, yeah. Yeah, it could be cool. She has a lot of like kettlebell training especially does for a living. So I think that would be really cool if you guys could put something together like that. I mean, I love strong, it's a lot of fun. I've done performance, that was a lot of fun too. So it's just not what I'm used to. So I think something like that could be pretty cool. Yeah, we get people asking about that. And we did mention like an old-timey. Yeah, old-timey program. Yeah, which I would, I mean, we might be able to combine the two or just do one or the other. I think at this point too, I mean there's other, like we're getting into more niche categories because we've kind of hit with broad strokes. Most of what's out there. So I think it may make sense in the future to really kind of dive into cool stuff like that. So we'll see. Yeah. Cool, thanks for the feedback. Awesome, well, thank you guys so much. I appreciate it. I got it, brother. All right guys. Yeah, this message goes out to the fitness fanatics. I wanna be clear with that because the average person who struggles with consistency probably isn't gonna benefit from this but when I, and I'm a fitness fanatic, right? And recently I hit a lifetime PR in my deadlift and I'm hitting some PRs and overhead presses and stuff. And the biggest thing that I did to contribute, because I did a few things but the biggest contributing factor was literally doing less than I thought that I should. In other words, I'll scale back volume but I scaled it back to a point that where I said, okay, this is where I think it should be. I'm gonna go even further back and my body just responded. And the reason why I'm communicating that is we think we're self-aware. When you're a fitness fanatic, you love the pain, you love the workout so much. You think you're aware of the appropriate intensity and volume, but you're probably not. So assume that you're not and take it back even further from that. And that's again, that's to the fitness fanatics. Yeah, I was gonna say, that's definitely the message for the ones that have been the most consistent lifetime lifters. The ones that are in the gym all the time need to hear that because it's just been ingrained in their head because they get so much momentum and seen so much results just by showing up and putting the work in and then adding more work. Now, they may be at a point where just pulling back is gonna have a substantial result. I like this question a lot because the strong, when we wrote strong, you have to keep in mind that, yes, we were writing for the general population, but we also wrote it hoping to help anybody who was getting ready for a strong competition that they would benefit. And I remember talking to Robert Oberis when we were in the importance of building that gas tank and that resiliency. And so, if you were gonna compete, it would be more important to kind of push through for mental fortitude purposes in something like this versus the general pop who's just trying to get the biggest bang for their buck from the programming. It makes way more sense to scale out or even potentially eliminate some of those work sessions because of how their body's talking to them. You're not a full-time strong athlete. So you're utilizing some of the tools from there. To me, that's a perfect example of somebody's like, listen, this is where you're not quite taking it to their extreme level where you scale back a little bit on that. And I think that's the important takeaway. And the mental shift is this, that if you're doing a program, even a well-written program, you're following the MAPS program, well-written, very thoughtful, right? If the program is making you feel beat up or your joints are hurting or you feel overtrained, there's nothing wrong with you. So it's not wrong with your body because I know some people like, well, they wrote this program, so I'm just gonna keep pushing through. No, there's nothing wrong with you. There's something wrong with the program. Modify it. Modify it so that it starts working for you. Don't be afraid to do so. Our next caller is Angela from New York. Hi, Angela, how can we help you? Hi, thank you guys so much for having me on. I'm a huge fan, so I really appreciate your time. I'm just gonna read my question. So I'm a relatively new trainer and I'm confused about programming. So NASM says to start with a phase on stabilization. So a lot of unilateral exercises, and then I look at anabolic and I've also done aesthetic and the pre-phase which also addresses muscle imbalances has all traditional exercises just with lower sets. Also NASM typically starts with hypertrophy, not strength, which I've noticed is different with both of those programs as well. So my question is where do I start just an average person who wants to build muscle? And then I was also wondering, is this something that I would learn from the MindPomp NCI group? And then if so, how do I join that? Okay, great question. So first off, we're way better than NASM. No, I'm just kidding. No, no, here's the deal. I wanna be real clear here, okay? We write programs for the general population. We have to design it for an avatar. None of our programs will ever compare to what a good trainer can do for an individual client. Okay, so NASM is trying to teach you how to create programs for the typical deconditioned client. So what they're telling you is actually correct. Now, MAPS Anabolic, MAPS Aesthetic, we're not designed for the deconditioned beginner, okay? They were designed for somebody who's got some experience with strength training, can do those exercises with relatively easy control. And MAPS Anabolic doesn't start with a strength phase. It starts with pre-phase, which is higher repetitions, then you move to phase one. But if you were to start our programs as a complete, like a deconditioned client, you would start with something like Starter. You would incorporate things from MAPS Prime and MAPS Prime Pro. In fact, as a trainer, Angela, I'm gonna ask you this question at risk of Adam losing his shit. Do you have Prime and Prime Pro? No, I don't, I'm sorry. And I just missed it on the sale, too. I swear, I'm brand new, but yeah, I'm no exceed this. I'll send you Prime, because I think that's gonna be one of the most valuable things you could get. I think you should also look into Prime Pro. Both of those will be super, super valuable with our clients when you work with them. But our programs are, I mean, they're written with a particular person in mind. And I mean, we did create some for the total beginner, but I mean, look, a personal trainer who's good is gonna be able to assess someone individually, look at them, watch them as they train, modify on the fly, like that's the best. If I were to kind of construct using our programming and if I was like a trainer and I'm addressing somebody that's just coming in for the first time, Prime is definitely where I start to be able to assess like where to kind of navigate with that client, first and foremost. And so that could lead me back into Prime Pro, which is there's some serious dysfunction and some serious imbalances that we need to investigate and dive into and reinforce with strength and stability. Or maybe we're going forward and they've never lifted weights before so that we get into starter. So we work on that instability, but we're also starting to add some load. Or if they're not ready for load, maybe we go into maps anywhere because we don't use any load. We're using body weight. We're using a lot of corrective exercises within that program to really build that kind of foundation. And then from there, maybe we get through that and we get into map symmetry because now I'm addressing both sides of the body and I'm trying to make sure that we're not neglecting any kind of dysfunction and strength in that capacity. So we do have these sort of precursors going into your maps anabolic and our kind of foundational staple type of workout programs. But I think too, we don't really address that because a lot of times like people that are drawn to our podcasts are somewhat familiar with the gym or somewhat have a handle on working out. But in terms of like coaches that follow us, like that would be sort of my prescript. Totally. I'm glad that you went that way too. This is the exact same direction I was in. And this is a reminder for me that we need to create a trainer bundle that would include I think all the- Like the sequence, right? Yeah, not only the sequence, but the programs I think that would most benefit like the client from beginning to at least like the first year of training. And what that would look like is Prime, Prime Pro, Starter. Resistance, we're probably in there. Any words in there? Right, so and to Justin's point, the very first one, so when you first meet a client, you do an assessment. I'm assuming if you have an ASM, you probably do the basic squat assessment and you look at their imbalances and address any aches or pains. So our maps Prime is a even more thorough assessment. So we have the squad in there, we have the windmill in there, and then we have a wall test in there. So we actually have three tests and we break the body up in three quadrants. And in each one of those, you have, okay, if they break down, they fail this test, these are the exercises they need to do to fix it. And we teach you that in that. So it's an incredible tool for a trainer. And based off how dysfunctional their movement is, would really dictate what program of ours I would take them, Justin's point. Let's say they're super decondition, advanced age, can't handle any sort of load. So then I'm gonna probably use something like Anywhere or our suspension program where it's just body weight type of movement that I feel very safe with. Okay, let's pretend they're a little more advanced. Like they actually have a decent squat, but they're still, this is brand new. Oh, maybe I can go right into anabolic. Or maybe I see a lot of discrepancy from left to right. Like everything on their left sides messed up. They have shoulder rolls forward on one side. They have an asymmetrical shift in their squat. And I see a lot of imbalances from left to right. Oh, I might go to symmetry. I'm gonna start them on symmetry for the first program is we address isometrics and unilateral movements all in symmetry. That's what that program is designed around. So really, no matter who the client is or what level they're at, we have created a program for them. So there is something for that person and you decide that as a coach and as a trainer based off of going through like prime and assessing them. Another thing, so another thing I wanna give you, so Sal already sent you prime. And Joe, I also wanna give you free access to our forum because we have a lot of other coaches and trainers in there. And this will be a great resource for you as you're coaching clients. Like say you take them through prime and you're like, hey, I noticed this and this, what would you guys suggest? I point this person in what direction you're gonna get answers. And they'll help you modify it and tailor it a little more specifically to individuals. So that always helps. Yeah, because you're new, I would suggest using our programs as a skeleton, a scaffolding. And then through the programs, modify the exercises to meet the client's needs. But the most valuable ones for you are prime, prime, pro and starter. Those will be the three that I would say are the absolute most valuable that are probably gonna apply the most to your beginner clients. But again, we're gonna send you prime and we'll give you access to the forum so you can ask questions for other more experienced trainers. Thank you so much. I really appreciate that. So then two questions. So why do they start? So again, with like the NASN, they say, okay, start an eight to 12 hypertrophy rep range. But then when you're looking at like anabolic after the pre-phase, or even I think with, I haven't done an aesthetic in a while, but I think that one starts with lower rep range as well. Like is there any rhyme or reason to that? Absolutely, so do you work out a lot, right? Okay, before you found Mind Pump and Maps Anabolic and all that stuff, what rep ranges did you normally work in? Okay, that makes sense. I guess, yeah. So I'm gonna start you off on the one that's gonna give you the most bang for your buck and I'm gonna blow your mind and then you're gonna love Maps. And that's why I started the original Maps Anabolic with a low rep phase. So, but if I'm working with the everyday average person, I mean, I'm gonna individualize it to the person. But I know, we know that the average person listening to us who works out somewhat probably never trains in those low rep ranges. Let's start a power lifter. Which by the way, okay, so, and let me give you two examples of how I could take Maps Anabolic and completely utilize it for two different people and different. So let's say I assess you and we're talking and oh, how do you normally train? You're like, oh, I love to train in the high rep range. I love supersets or circuit training. I'm like, oh, perfect. I'm gonna run you through Maps Anabolic phase one first and so forth. Let's say you're the opposite. Maybe I get you and you're like, man, I love strength and I always tend to lift really heavy and I don't like supersets. I'll flip Anabolic on you. That's right. I'll run in phase three. I'll start you in phase three. Then go two, then go one. So you and you as a coach have this ability to kind of modify that. And just to piggyback off of what Sal said, what was so brilliant about him doing that? I remember when I first looked at Anabolic when he sent it over to me was, I knew that that was a majority of my female. First of all, 60 to 70% of my clientele was female. 60, 70% of the people that I was helping did not train heavy. They tend to train in the more hypertrophy, lightweight, lots of reps. And so the idea of getting that client to start in a strength phase, it always blew their mind because it was so novel to their body. So that's why I love that he did that. But that doesn't mean that I would not flip it on its head for somebody who told me that, oh, I always strength train. Well, if you always strength train, I know by putting you in phase three, you're gonna see more results right out the gates because of that. And that's where the coaching part on your part, you take our programs to modify. It's the reason why most people love phase one the most of MAPS and Ebola. It's because it's the one that they do the least. That's just most people. And then would you cater that, obviously with an individual program, everything would be specific to the client. But if they're starting, for example, on a fat loss phase and they're in a cut, would that impact how you're gonna do their reference? No, look at resistance training through the lens of building muscle and building strength. That's it. Cutting, bulking. That's a diet thing. And the goal with strength training or resistance training is always to try to build muscle. At the very least, what'll happen in a cut is you'll preserve the most muscle with the right strength training program. So don't look at your strength training program and say, which one's gonna burn the most fat? No, no, no. It's always about building muscle. It's the diet that takes care of the fat loss. Okay, great. Thank you. No problem. Thanks for calling in. Last question. Sorry, how do I join? Because I Googled it, but I didn't see anything. Do you still have that mentorship program? Oh, with NCI. Let's ask that. Yeah, for a second. Doug, maybe Doug can find the link for us. Is it NCI MimePomp or? It's MimePomp NCI or NCI MimePomp. What is it? Yeah, give us a second. Well, I think we have links for both of them and one of them sends to one and there are two different things that they're sending to. Yeah, it might be MimePomp NCI. Let me double check. Yeah, let's double check it so we can get it here on the podcast because we'll send you the link also through email when you get your free Maps Prime program. You know, it looks like both of those work. And they both send you the same place? No, no, they don't. They're two different places. One of them is like our coaching that we do every Wednesday and then the other one is like getting involved in like their programs and all their stuff. So which one's the coaching? Because that's what she's interested in. It's strange because they're both going to the same page right now. NCI MimePomp.com. All right, let's go there and that's where you can get yourself signed up. So we'll see you, I guess, maybe next week because we do this once a week. We get on there and we talk to trainers. Yep. Okay, awesome. Thank you so much. I really appreciate it. No problem, thanks, Angela. Thank you. I love new trainer questions because it's a good question, right? Because it's a good reminder. You're going through, you're going through, excuse me, NASM, you're looking at our programs and because you're not quite familiar with what's going on, you're like, this is conflicting. Who do I listen to? We really need to make a trainer bundle. I agree. We really need to make a bundle of what we would consider like- Most valuable for trainers. Yeah, the core like five programs and then how we would utilize them to get most all clients started in the training process. I just think that we get this too much. Yeah. Yeah, I totally agree with you. But yeah, I'm glad you asked those questions because people might actually think that the phases in some of our programs are because it's progressing you from like level. It's not, so the reason why they're called phases and at levels is because it's not like you're advancing to the next level. It's just a different phase. And one phase is not more valuable than the other because it does more reps or less reps. It's more valuable than the other because it's the one that your body needs at the moment. So you can definitely flip the phases depending on where you start. Just most people are not power lifters when they first buy one of our programs. Most people work out in that supersets, higher rep type training. Yeah, and we did try and address a lot of the new lifters coming in and with these other programs we don't highlight properly enough. So I'm glad that we can get somebody to have us highlight them a bit more and bring them to the service because they're very valuable for trainers, coaches and also the very beginner. Our next caller is Aaron from Missouri. Aaron, what's happening, man? How can we help you? Hey guys, thanks for having me on. My wife and I, we've been listening to you guys since like 2021 in the middle of the pandemic. I've actually gone back and listened to. I'm pretty sure almost every episode and then listening to you guys currently. But my question I want to give you first and then give you a little bit of background is what is the best way to determine what my fitness goals should be at every stage of my life. So at first my wife and I started listening to you. We were in the middle of the pandemic, gained weight like probably most everybody during the pandemic and we really wanted to get back into shape. So we found your podcast, started cutting our calories back and we were actually going through the maps and of all like YouTube free videos. And I just want to say the side note to anybody that's out there listening wondering if that program's worth buying. It totally is. The YouTube videos are great but the program is just much better. And so I was about 175 pounds for a five eight guy about 20% body fat. And in two months doing that, I lost and got down to about 150 and dropped to 15% body fat. My goal then was to hit 12% but I kind of plateaued for a while. I was even about 1600 calories and I really think I used the tools you guys gave me and abused them a little bit just to get me down that fast. So after the plateau, I fell off from working out for a little bit and then I was about 145 pounds but lost most of my muscle. Someone pretty close to me said, I look pretty skinny but I didn't look healthy. So I started working out again. I bought anabolic, I bought aesthetic, started running those programs. I've done that twice now, back to back and I'm about to finish up aesthetic for the second time. I'm eating about 2600 calories now and I feel pretty good but I just am still discouraged at my body fat percentage and I'm wondering if my goal should be strength or body fat percentage. And I'm about to be a father in March and as you guys have said so often things change working out when you become a new father. So how do I determine what my goal should be and how do I have a healthy relationship with those goals in the future? Oh boy, good question and congratulations on the new arrival coming soon. Thank you. So you're looking to do this forever, right? You wanna have a lifelong exercise pursuit or fitness relationship. Okay, so here's an easy way to determine what your goal should be. Look at your life and list your priorities and then use fitness as a tool to improve the quality of those things or improve your ability to do those things. So let's say I'm gonna make a list for you. Maybe your list is different but let's just say towards the top of your priorities is being a good father, being a good provider, being a good partner. Okay, how can I use my workouts and my fitness to amplify those or strengthen me in a way to make me better at those things? And then that's it and that's pretty much it. Now within that, you could say for the last six weeks I've been training in this particular way. It seems to be stale. I'm noticing some aches and pains. So now I'm gonna scale back and try this other form of training or I trained for strength in these three lifts. Now let me try training in these other three lifts but always keeping in mind what the number one priority is in your life for. And the reason why I'm saying this to you because there's nothing wrong with fitness goals but if you want a really solid, lifelong relationship with exercise use it like the ultimate Swiss Army knife. Like you pull it out and you go I'm losing sleep right now because I got a new baby. How can I use exercise to help me deal with this? Or you know, my business is I got some stressful stuff happening in my business. How can I use exercise to help us? Or man, everything's going easy in my life right now. Everything's going great. How can I use exercise to make it feel even better? And when you do that, it becomes this incredible lifelong relationship and that's the way exercise should be used when you're looking at it from the lens of forever. There's no wrong answer necessarily to this and it really depends on what you want to do but I know that, okay, so let's take the whole getting ready for fatherhood thing right now. So you tend to have like two really common body types. You have the body type one that is probably like Sal and I where we, if we stop training the same kind of volume, like it seems like muscle falls off of us as quickly as anything else. So it's like, it takes so much work to build all this muscle. And then as soon as I fall off consistency or fall off diet, muscle falls off my body. Then you have other people when they fall off the wagon of training, they don't really lose as much muscle but body fat comes on really quick. Like depending on which one of those avatars you identify more with might be different on how I strategically prepare myself for fatherhood. So if I'm somebody who loses muscle really easy like I do, like my goal going into fatherhood was I'm gonna pack on as much muscle as I can getting ready for being a father because I know I'm probably not gonna get as much of the volume of training as I normally do. And so that was like my strategy. If you're the opposite, I would go the body fat percentage. Like you were kind of alluding to earlier. Like I'd try and get as lean as possible heading into fatherhood because I know I'm probably not gonna be moving as much and I'll probably eat excess calories here and there. And I know I put on weight pretty quick. So depending on you, I would like probably strategically approach fatherhood maybe differently based off of that. And then back to what Sal was saying about really trying to optimize your life. Like if you also told me that you're achy and slow like I might go a more performance mobility route. So it's hard to determine exactly what I would tell you without knowing more detail about you but you probably know better than anybody. Yeah, I thought about this quite a bit. And I know, well, have you listened to the latest one we did with Jason Phillips? I thought I saw something in your question that you've written. But there was basically like broken down into three different pursuits. So you had like your longevity focus optimizing your health. You had like your performance, very specific goals of like getting strength or whatever that was performance wise. And then also to just more of an aesthetic goal overall in terms of like body composition or like enhancing and developing certain muscles to gain a certain shape and size. And this is just something that is, there's no wrong answer in terms of like which area or should you focus on exclusively? But it's just something to always acknowledge. Like where have you been putting most of your effort? Like where does that lie? Like where are the deficits right now? And like what environment are you stepping into? So obviously going into fatherhood is gonna look a lot different than what habits and where your focus was and your mindset was previous to that. And so I think that this is just always something that should be top of mind because there is a different protocol. There's a different way to train your body to produce a desired result in that direction. But, and this is where we're always kind of constantly thinking about this in terms of what we can create to fill needs for people in a lot of those different directions. But it's just a constant kind of revolving assessment of your self-assessment to realize like we're in different seasons all the time in life and your work schedule changes, you may move and that just creates this entirely different environment. So I just think that's kind of the fun dynamic part about a fitness and health driven pursuits is that there's just always something that's kind of just naturally falls off that we can address and we can improve our body overall. Yeah, now, Aaron, you said in there, how do I fight the urge to switch so quickly, I guess from one goal to another or one program to another? When you decide to train or work for something or work towards something, then the mind game begins where you learn to enjoy the process of what you're going through because once the novelty works off which takes a few weeks, then if you haven't learned to enjoy that process then you're going to want to switch to something else to switch to something more novel. What happens is you end up spinning your tires in the dirt because you don't allow your body the ability to adapt and get really good at whatever you're training for. So when you're in something, then the goal is, okay, now I got to really wrap my mind around enjoying this process. So if it's mobility, what you don't want to do is think about your maximal strength. Oh, how much am I losing on my deadlift and my squat? Like, okay, no, no, I got to enjoy the mobility process and I got to become this mobility person while I'm doing that. So that's the game that will prevent you from switching from every shiny object, right? Chasing every shiny object because that can definitely become a problem. But I'll tell you what, the most valuable program for you becoming a new father, I'm gonna tell you right now is MAPS 15. Oh yeah. MAPS 15, do you have that program? I don't, I just bought performance and strong because I didn't know what I needed to do after aesthetic during your sale. So I don't have 15 yet. Okay, so MAPS 15 is gonna be a game changer as a father because there's definitely gonna be moments where you're not gonna be able to find an hour to work out but you'll probably be able to find 15 to 20 minutes to do something. So it's a game changer. We've got great reviews from people in terms of results and consistency. So I'm gonna send that to you. And then I also think MAPS suspension would be valuable for you because that's another program you could do without having to go to the gym. And then when you go back to the gym, I like MAPS symmetry for a lot of people but I definitely think MAPS 15 is gonna be extremely valuable. There's so much muscle right now as you can. Yeah, so I'm gonna send that over to you. Okay, thank you guys so much. I think what you guys were talking about, especially with the triangle, I definitely find myself falling more in the what my body looks like composition. And then when I get into that and I'm training for that, well then I see the weight come off, especially during aesthetic, you start seeing the weight come off in those super sets where I'm at now and I just get discouraged. And I want to be strong but I also want to look good. And that's where my back and forth kind of comes from. So I think that's really helpful for me. Thank you. No problems, stay in it and you can't have everything. Yeah. That's just a life lesson. Yeah. Okay. All right, man. Okay, thank you guys so much. Thanks for calling in and congratulations again. Yeah, I mean, when I figured out to use my workouts and my nutrition to help make me better at the things that I value, they became more valuable themselves. Like just an example with diet. When I go down to, sometimes I'll go down to LA and I'll do these like podcast tours, right? When I'm doing like three or four podcasts and I really want to be sharp. I really want to be sharp. I want to have good verbal fluency. I want to do a good job. I typically, this is when I utilize fasting and ketogenic diet, which are both not the best diets for me when it comes to strength and for performance. When I know that I'm going into a period of time where I'm not going to be working out, well, this is when I train really hard leading up to it. Because then those become recovery weeks, you know? It's what I did the last two weeks. I took off when Dahlia was born as I worked out real hard leading up to it. And then the two weeks that were off, well now it's natural that I'm kind of relaxing and hanging out with the baby. So, and when I didn't do that, believe it or not, my workouts and my diet were not as valuable. Now they're far more valuable because of it. Yeah, well, that's why we just can't get married to these modalities, right? Got to be open because there is a better tool for the job and whatever season of life that you're in. It's always better to kind of visit something that best applies. Yeah, I think this is, figuring this out is necessary if you're going to make health and fitness a lifelong pursuit. Yes. Personally, I think this has been one of the greatest hacks for me is learning that. To let go of these specific modalities and not identifying with a type of lifter or a person that trains and being open-minded to all these different tools and resources that we have at our disposal and pursuing these different goals and sticking with it, even though it's not up my alley, right? If I was the aesthetic physique guy, becoming the mobile Gumby dude was like definitely a mind fuck going through that process, but then trusting that process that like I got to let go. I got to let go of, I'm not doing this training modality right now with to pursue a bodybuilding physique. So I got to let go of that fact of oh, I feel smaller. Oh, I feel like I'm losing muscle. Oh, I'm not, who cares? The pursuit right now is how hyper mobile can I get and how flexible and how much pain can I eliminate? And like I want to go down that rabbit hole. And the interesting part is when you trust that process, you stick with it and then you go back and you revisit the thing, maybe you're more passionate about and you love. You're better at it. You're better. Yeah, it ends up serving you. So it's so important. That's the irony, right? Yeah, you know what's funny is that everybody under the age of 35 has no idea who Gumby is. I heard you say that. I heard you say that. Gumby. Gumby was a good time, looking up at you right away. Yeah, Doug remembers Gumby. I know the song, dude. Gumby and Pokey, one of that. Look, if you like Mind Pump, head over to mindpumpfree.com and check out our guides. We have free guides that can help you with so many different fitness goals. Again, they cost nothing, mindpumpfree.com. You can also find all of us on social media. So Justin is on Instagram at Mind Pump, Justin. Adam is on Instagram at Mind Pump, Adam. And you can find me on Twitter at Mind Pump Sal. This one's really important, and that is to phase your training. If somebody trains for a full year doing a bench press and they're always aiming for five reps, if you compared that person to a person who did a bench press where they did three or four weeks of five reps, but then they did three or four weeks of 12 reps and then three or four weeks of, let's say, 15 to 20 reps and then they'll throw in some supersets, at the end of that year, you're gonna see more consistent progress from the person who's moving in and out. And less injury, that's another thing. You'll see less injury as well.