 Hello everybody and welcome We're gonna start our panel on the evolution of the cloud native verification for OVP and It's a pleasure to speak with you today. I'm I'm joined by Trevor Lovett At Mark Price the CTO matrix Where matrix is relatively new to Linux Foundation We just joined Linux Foundation networking early last year and I'm one of the co-leads on cloud native OVP Let me introduce Trevor Lovett. Trevor, if you could introduce yourself, please I'm Trevor Lovett. I'm with AT&T and I work in our network chief technology organization and we're tasked with you know, basically Making it easy to integrate and bring on new network functions into AT&T So we work, you know, both internally on automation and requirements for suppliers But we also work heavily in the open-source community both on-apps C and TT CNCF all trying to drive making sure that you know AT&T's needs for running, you know, telco workloads Are out in the community and shared and and so we can make sure people are lining those up front and then making that easy to ingest and You know offer services to our customers Sounds perfect So we've got a challenge in the community Trevor. We're co-leads of this group that's changed names a couple times We're now calling it CNOVP or cloud native OVP Let's introduce it to people. What is CNOVP at cloud native OVP and what are its goals? Yeah, so I mean essentially we're an offshoot of the compliance and verification committee Which is sits under the Lenox Foundation Networking Board and you know, it has historically been there to offer you know Badging that you know for things of like that demonstrate compliance interoperability With things under the Lenox Foundation Networking Group. So think of own app for instance or Open NFV or things of that nature Cloud native OVP really is just an extension of that. We're a subcommittee of that committee But we're really focused on taking that work and extending it into The cloud native space right so telco has its own kind of unique needs especially in the cloud native space So we're trying to offer badging programs both for the platforms themselves that you know suppliers might provide To run cloud native workloads and also the workloads themselves to make sure that they're compatible with those platforms and then also Needing, you know the cloud native principles so we you know the operators can get the maximum amount of benefit out of those principles That's a great point So Huh go ahead, please go ahead. Yeah So I would just say in terms of our goals really we want to be that you know If you want to think of it as that badge you might see on electronic device or Wi-Fi device It says, you know, you can use this safely it meets certain criteria and plug in and it's not going to burn down the house Right, I mean, that's kind of our first layer of what we're trying to get to in this case Right is just make sure that things interoperate People have a common understanding of what they need to do to comply both the vendors and the suppliers And it's kind of a meeting hub to make sure we're all aligned on those things It's best best, you know benefits out of the systems And that's a great analogy So so so we're working it with both the infrastructure and the workloads to make sure that they're that they have common Principles that they work together to support cloud native and they support cloud native for telco Was that that's pretty much what what you've described that accurate? Yes Absolutely makes total sense. Yeah, so you mentioned that we're collaborating with with other community groups as well I think some of those are in Linux Foundation networking others are Outside of telcom or outside of the networking group Can you talk a little bit more about some of the other community groups that we're engaged with as part of this activity as well? Yeah, the great thing about cloud native is there's a ton of activity happening in Santa Contra across all the various parts of the community You know the challenge that represents is right make sure that everybody's kind of row in the same direction We can interoperate so that's one of the key things this committee has been focused on right is because there are different ones For instance CNTT is very focused on building a cloud native infrastructure based on Kubernetes. That's suitable for telco needs Cncf is very active and Cncf is very active in defining kind of general Cloud native principles that workloads need to adhere to to you know to maximize the benefit of those platforms own app is working on extending their platform to offer Support cloud native functions in addition to the pns and the vns. They support today So a lot of great contribution happening across the ecosystem You know where we come in is one you know the basics thing is can we can workloads or platforms? Demonstrate that they comply with those and are compatible with those standards and requirements But probably more importantly, you know, can we make sure that? They don't conflict with each other and we have a kind of common view So, you know, it's very possible that a something may only be compatible with a subset of requirements We want to make sure it's possible to get all of them, right? It should be possible for a Vendor to provide a workload that's compatible with CNTT Infrastructure and own app orchestration and cloud native principles, right? So we work to try to align the community and make sure that we know we're sharing best practices across the communities And also making sure there's no conflicting requirements across those communities as well And so that that's you know kind of a secondary function of our of our committee, you know beyond just the badging itself, right? It's something we're working on That's a terrific point. Yeah, and it's really important I think this is a a big need for the community, right? So so part of this is of course being able to provide that confidence that Something is cloud native for telco, but the coordination function requires a lot of work And I think really provides a lot of value to the community We're fortunate in that we we actually engage with CNCF In Linux foundation overall and then of course are engaged within Linux foundation Networking with those groups that you mentioned the CNTT and and and own app as well now from up from a CNTT perspective I understand there may be some changes that are going on as well and and of course both CNTT and Own app have evolved with cloud native thinking as well CNCF of course having that cloud native thinking from the outset, but but others are evolving so so my Through the engagement that we've had with CNTT part of this is to make sure that they're not just looking at it Right, but also now taking a look at workload and requirements for work load And and that I guess is not is a home for those requirements now is right on and and then work We're helping to coordinate that those activities. So is that a correct understanding as well? Yeah, so so each you know CNTT it has it's kind of a dual focus right there is the Defining the platform that it runs on but then also defining the workload requirements that for something that wants to run in that platform How does it access the various, you know platform? Capabilities in a cloud native way that adheres to those standards, right? So there's there's kind of two aspects there Likewise, you know on the own app side right there Will be requirements that says okay, how does a workload actually? Interoperate with own app and that in that same way. So we've really got two layers We've got the we'll have badging that covers the Platforms themselves or for suppliers that are providing, you know actual platforms to run and host those and then we'll have Requirements and badging for the workloads to make sure that they're compatible with those platforms and you know adhering to best practices So what do you see is the the major distinction for those people that are familiar with the VP from you know from pre-cloud native from the NFV VNF world and now with cloud native You know badging is is more complex in some ways. It's it's also You know it relates not only to looking at an isolation, but perhaps we have more Coordination than we have before we have CNCF as a guide to look at But from a telco perspective, we're also engaging now with as you mentioned Both CNTT and and own app as they're looking at what cloud native means Are there some distinctions or some differences in how we will be providing guidance around those badges with respect to Different options or you know potentially different items that can be batched as part of cloud native for VP Yeah, I mean one of the things we we recognize in this space is I would call it optionality, right? They're you know, there's so many things you can do to Irrations to run there's you know kind of common basics like everybody's gonna most we're gonna run a Kubernetes instance around their cloud native function Most people will right, but there's a lot of optionality. Maybe I'm gonna use own app Maybe I'm gonna run on CNT Compatible infrastructure, maybe I'm gonna run in a public cloud, right and based on how an operator Rolls that out, right? There are certain things that may be relative to them and not so what we've introduced The handle that which we didn't have in the previous Badging is that optionality, right? So the idea is that a a workload could be compatible with CNTT, right? You could have a badge for that, but maybe they maybe own app isn't you know isn't the focus for that particular operator or Workload right or maybe you know and likewise, maybe you know, they're not using either those things But they you know, they really want to cloud native principles because they're running on something Yeah, right maybe they'll evolve to that Because we do expect this to be a journey to it's not just about optionality But also a journey the fact that it may take Interations for anybody to get to their target state and we want to make sure that we can kind of meet them along that So I think that's probably the key difference in how we're offering the badges this time is the optionality piece of it And then in part is because the cross-coordination across all the different That's terrific. Yeah, so it's a really should provide not only some coordination But some transparency with respect to very clear and very different things, you know It can a a CNF or infrastructure be treated as cloud native as per The understanding of cloud native. It will it be Compliant with own app. What will it be combined with CNTT principles as well? There's some transparency and coordination, but it allows for options you some some infrastructure and some applications may work across all of those and others may be Not designed or may not be needed to work across those depending on operators needs. Is that is that a good way to put it? Yes, absolutely Excellent excellent. So so so you're in a fortunate situation as you've mentioned Representing what an operator might need from this initiative as well Curious what what is the importance of the focus now on cloud native? Clearly that we've seen a major shift You know we're one of the community groups that's working exclusively with cloud native and that was really our reason for being It's a reason why matrix joined Linux foundation last year really to work in this area But but there's a shift in in direction now as we see from some of these other groups CNTT certainly and and own app as well From an operator perspective. What what do you see as the important of the new focus on cloud native on open source? Telecom work In some aspects right cloud native is is a continuation of the virtualization right and learning in best practice So I mean I think when I think of cloud native, you know what work as an operator we're gonna get the best out of right It really is the the scalability the resiliency He's of management, you know, you know, I think those are all things that yes, we you could have done them and prior Incarnations right, but I think we you know, it's we've learned from you various other companies and platforms of web scale You know other industries, right? It's kind of a clearinghouse of all the best ideas on how to really manage workloads at scale and and so I think You know, that's kind of where I when I look think about cloud native. That's what I'm thinking about How do I manage, you know, especially in the world of 5g, right? How do I manage? This vast sea of network functions managed by network in a way that you know I can actually do it because there's so many more things running in the network and you know We need things build it recover we need things build them easily managed and those types of things So I think that's kind of the key thing for me when I think cloud native and what it's gonna mean for operators So yeah, that's really important. Yeah. Yeah. No, I think that's exactly right and I think we get with some some level of transparency, maybe some some level of standardization to some extent right over over how we we get the benefits that you've described and and maybe we get you know a larger developer community to draw on as well by using some of these principles that are you know what being supported outside of telco So what sort of benefits can operator see from the initiative if you're An operator that's following this closely or you're an operator that maybe you know Hasn't called this that closely what what what sort of things that you know might might you expect that an operator is going to get for example Is this gonna gonna help facilitate or reduce the amount of time that operators may have to go through a process of Validating some of these components or you know, what are what are some of the other things that help operators in the journey as? Moving to cloud native here Yeah, I kind of think of along two aspects right there. You're right. Absolutely right. One of the key things is easing that streamline again Integrating a new piece of you know new network function right a cloud native network function in this case, right? Make if it here's the right platforms, and I've got my platform set up In a compatible manner, you know, it just it is handles a lot of the easier things that you know Want to get to the point of testing the functionality, right? You know that doesn't do what it's supposed to do But but you know make it integrate your monitoring and your on-boarding and instantiation and configuration You know all that kind of stuff you're trying to get through that as quickly as possible So I think you know one of the key things we'll be able to do with this by standing out standardizing on that is Streamline that that piece of it, but also I think you know there is you know The best practice of all the different people involved in this right so making sure that we're making desert You know if you look at the landscape for cloud native There's a lot of choices to make right and and not it and nobody's got time to go evaluate every single different You know platform and tool and option and mom You know all that stuff they can't do it So I think by doing this in the community, which you had the opportunity to do is learn from everybody Right, we can get the best practices You know the best decisions about what we should be using all baked into that platform Especially with a telco bent you know we have our own unique needs So I think that's kind of the two aspects stream line the integration and then also make sure we're learning from both suppliers and other operators in a cohesive environment that kind of makes the best use of all the different technology available. I Think that's perfect. Yeah, and I do certainly see another benefit of Court this coordination is actually learnings this is a fast-paced industry and You're absolutely right by by learning from each other by coordinating by by working alongside of other vendors Operators all together. I think we can perhaps not only get the best out of this but I think the pace is so fast that we actually learn from each other and I think that perhaps another big part of this which is Change happens fast and we can all help each other a bit as we move along though. Yeah, really good points So what do you see from a timing perspective then, you know, roughly? I know these things are always a challenge to to plan out and then and changes happen fast even the changes in naming for some of these things that may be happen fast, but What's the timing of approximately of the badges when might we be you know looking at something that might be useful and What else beyond the badges as we're coordinating some of these Requirements to you know, we may be able to bring to bear other resources for useful as a repository You know not necessarily creating the requirements, but coordinating the requirements as they say so they're they're at least compatible with each other What sort of guidance can we give to folks that might be looking for output from us either with respect to the coordination on those requirements? in some sort of a home or Or taking a look at when we first might might have our first set of badges with the optionality that you described available for folks Yeah, so I mean in terms of timing We've kind of identified a minimum viable product based on kind of what platforms are the furthest along in this space and and so we're trying to launch our first set of badges in In conjunction, you know shortly after the launch of the reference implement Kubernetes reference implementation out of CNT team Which should be probably the early part of 2021 So we should be launching that we're going to offer badges of both for the platforms themselves The cloud infrastructure and then also the workloads for CNTT And we'll also have some cloud native tests right and we do expect these to evolve over time, right? This will be our beginning with this But we do think we'll get you know have a solid set of requirements and test will add value to both You know suppliers and operators in that time frame and then we'll extend that out later on You know later on the year will have the own app release and hope we'll have an own app badge for that later on In terms of what we will offer, right? I think as we mentioned, there's a lot of different communities involved here, so What we want to be able to do is kind of be the one-stop shop or where somebody goes to figure out You know who's maybe not ingrained with every single project and knows exactly where to go, right? I'm saying, okay. I this is important to me. I need to be compatible with this ecosystem, right? I want to be able to we'll be able to show okay. Well, here's What you need to be compatible with this badge. Here's a set of requirements. Here's a set of validations And yeah, a lot of that work is being done in the individual project But we'll be a one-stop shop you can go and kind of navigate that space And then provide that kind of clear understanding of it This is exactly what I need to do. This is the information that's important to me in this context And this is how I go about doing the test and getting the badge So that's that's we want to simplify that process for for suppliers in that in that regard hugely valuable very very good very important Yeah, so and the timing of this is interesting too I think you know that that timing might be very helpful to folks operators and and potentially vendors That are that are getting engaged with 5g and 5g standalone initiatives in particular Do you see this is as tying in as you know that the interesting cloud native and some of the Principles and benefits that you described you see that being even more relevant in in the 5g context I mean 5g is You know was designed cloud native from the start So, you know it is it is a big driver in the adoption of this these these technologies and that ecosystem So I think that is a hugely important part of this is the fact that you know You know if without 5g what we still move to cloud native. Absolutely. Is this is it an accelerator for this? 100% so Yeah, yeah makes a lot of sense. Yeah good So so how is it that other member companies can get involved if they're listening in on our Conversation here, and they may not be involved with us now Maybe they're part of Linux Foundation networking, but maybe not yet involved with with our community What's the best way to get started? So the Linux Foundation networking there's the the you go to the OVP Open NFV portal on the next foundation networking portal. That'll get you started We have weekly meetings where we come. I would encourage you to join those every every other Monday we where every Monday we have a CVC Committee meeting every other week we're focused on cloud native Because there's still a lot of good work going on on the other badges as well VNS You know those are still with us and still important to us. So those that were going on So I would encourage you to join those meetings And then you'll find and also contribute to the individual projects too, right? If you're if you're interested in the platforms get involved a CNTT if you're interested in cloud native principles and making sure the workloads here to that get involved with the CN CNF conformance is a good place to start so But we can help you guide you that if you want to come to our committee first and we can help guide you where you What tells what you're interested in will help guide you where your efforts are best suited most likely so Very exciting. Yeah, absolutely. Yeah, and very valuable stuff It's really it's a great pleasure to be involved. I think you know cloud native is Something everything that can agree is the right principle. You know, we're gonna get some great benefits out of it Hopefully this is this is exactly the sort of thing that communities really are needed for to take advantage of Large-scale development and great ideas from outside of our industry as well as inside of our industry So providing that level of coordination is so important and hopefully providing that badging is going to be extremely timely Very relevant for operators that are that are taking that journey We're gonna have a hybrid environment for for quite a while But people are really getting their feet wet now with with cloud native and of course You know trying to manage the workloads that that go across cloud native and and non-cloud native as well So we've got we've got a challenge ahead of us in the next year Trevor any any final thoughts then before we close out this one? I mean, you know just encourage people to get involved, right? This will only be as Valuable as we make it right the bet make sure everybody gets their ideas out to it It kind of lifts all boats and it will make it easier for everyone But it does take that contribution of all participants. So, you know, I just really encourage people to get involved and Get your best ideas out there because you're gonna learn from other people and you know, they'll take advantage of those learning so I Would agree with that. Yeah. All right, so I think we'll wrap this one. We may have a live Q&A But thanks for your participation Trevor, and we'll we'll chat with everybody soon. Thank you so much All right, thanks. Thanks Mark. Our speakers are now available for live Q&A We encourage you to submit your questions via the chat and Q&A panel and our speakers will be happy to answer them Thank you very much So it's great to be with you here live. That was a really good conversation and we got a couple good questions actually coming in that are I think central to essentially understanding what the function is and And helping to make sure that we do a good job of coordinating across what could be some some complicated and confusing acronyms in the space I want to give a shout out actually if I may to the keynotes from yesterday as well So we did hear from both Heather and from Priyanka The importance of the compliance and verification efforts and of course we are central to that so so we have a couple questions about the the name OVP and you know, it's it what it stands for and its relevance here because of course that might confuse a few folks that are that are new to this and and questions about the Coordination that our group is doing with the CNCF. So let me ask these in turn I think Trevor we answered the question on the chat about OVP But it it might be worth Elaborating just a little bit during our chat. We talked about where OVP came from with respect to NFP and that the name may may not be the best name now that OVP and CNTT are merging The you know, this is about cloud native verification Maybe for the for the crowd you want to talk it through just a bit about You know your perspective on where the name has come from and where we're going Yeah, I mean you're absolutely right it did start out You know based on you know open IV was initially what was providing the validations for the NFV That's the beginning of the badge and that's where the program was launched You know since that time, you know the validations have come from other sources You know own app provided their own set of validations for the DNF's and you know now we're into cloud native space So, you know one of the things I you know I would project that the name of the program will change based on you know the Integration work that's happened between CNTT and open in a V That seems likely that it will change. I don't know what it will be in the future But you know it does, you know, it is that's the historical context where the name came from Even if it's not a perfect fit to the activities that are happening now We just haven't changed the name to date, but I suspect that will happen I think it will as well. So watch this space. We may have a new name soon I think for folks that are listening in on this conversation the key idea here is that you know conformance and verification need to be coordinated and This is our our Intent is to coordinate these not only within LFN But also to do so by working with the folks that we are working with in CNCF and elsewhere So so we did have another question and let's let's hit on that specifically really the question is about to make sure that we articulate our view on Cloud native OVP alignment with the CNCF conformance as I mentioned both of those were brought up yesterday as well Trevor, I'll let you take this one if you if you may can you Speak to how we're bringing in the view of CNCF conformance and that that that should be and is aligned with our requirements and our badging and testing and How do you explain how these two groups are working together? Yeah, so it's really and it's kind of more than two groups, but you know, we've got the entity we've got own app We've got CNCF Are the big three players here and you know each group kind of has their own Set of responsibilities, you know, so CNTT is very heavily focused on the Requirements for the infrastructure itself and then indeed by extension what those you know What that infrastructure requires the workloads so they can run on it properly ONAF is involved with you know, what are the requirements for ONAF to successfully orchestrate a CNF Where CNCF comes in and they've been primarily focused on more general things Around cloud native principles and testing those things right it's not specific to the to the to CNTT It's not specific to ONAF More general principles and so rather than try to have ONAF define that and have CNTT define it All right, CNCF is focused on doing that and creating validations for that And so that's where their focus is so that they're kind of focused on the more general cloud native principles As it relates to configuration scalability Resiliency, you know, those types of management type functions whereas CNTT and ONAF are more focused on you know the Compliance interoperability requirements based on their platforms with what those are going to do. So, so, you know, we're working together with them There is a cross Community efforts that looks at the requirements, particularly in the workload space When we're talking about CNF themselves, there's been you know ongoing cross community activity Kind of pulling all the requirements together and making sure that you're in the right buckets And we don't have conflicts between those requirements. So that's kind of a you know, where the pieces fit together But without very well stated align and integrate with that overlap Yes, and we did cover it a bit in the in the talk as well But you know what that allows us to do then is be a little more flexible than we were with OVP alone in terms of it Our view is that you won't just simply get a batch this time around But the testing will allow for some optionality as we spoke to so an element of what we're doing is is a CNF or the infrastructure compliant with cloud native conformance as per a telco usable definition of what is Being looked at in in CNCF and then on top of that optionality with respect to is something compliant from a cloud native perspective with where The requirements would be coming from on app and then similarly from CNCT So I think you did articulate that in our session that that is that right to basically say this is one aspect of alignment to make sure we bring in those conformance requirements from CNCF it is that it They will be consistent with our approach But then looking that it that in a telco context and then aligning with those other groups that is that is that good way to put it Trevor Yes Outstanding, okay. I believe that is the end of our questions and You know, this was a super format. I hope you guys appreciated it We wanted to do a fireside chat make it a little bit more engaging with you guys again Hope to see everybody understand the importance of this I can't under state that you know that we only work and can be effective because of our coordination with all the other groups That we've talked about so thanks to the entire community for this and Hope it's gonna be another great show