 Welcome to American Issues Take One. I'm Tim Appichelle, your host. And today's title is Vice President Pick is critical in the 2024 election. Age usually doesn't enter into the discussion about who's gonna be our next president or it did back in Ronald Reagan's time. The American public was concerned about his age. It certainly came up as a factor with John McCain, particularly his age, as it related to some health issues that he was having. And certainly it's reared its ugly head with President Joe Biden. But really hasn't come up a whole lot with Donald Trump until recently. And so given the age issue that's coming up in this discussion about 2024 election, we thought it'd be a worthwhile thing to talk about the vice president because should a president become incapacitated or not able to fulfill its term of office, guess who takes over? And that's the vice president. So in the case of John McCain, he may well have lost the election because of a Sarah Palin pick as his VP. That hasn't been proven without a shadow of a doubt, but many do opine that that was a contributing factor to his loss to Barack Obama. So anyway, that's our discussion for today. And I would love to introduce my guests. Today I have with me my co-host, Jay Fidel, and our esteemed special guest, and I mean esteemed special guest, Chuck Crumpton. Good morning, gentlemen. Good morning, Chuck. Good morning, Jay. Yeah, wow. So, JTU, it looks like Donald Trump is going to be the heir apparent for the GOP nomination for the United States for the 2024 election. And the topic of who his VP pick will be has floated now to the surface of the media attention. And let me just suggest, or let me ask you, what do you think the top criteria for a VP pick on the Trump ticket will be? Oh, as you said, for sure. It's whether that person can succeed him as president. Simple. What about the loyalty test versus the loyalty to the constitution test? Well, yeah, he's going to have somebody loyal. He's going to have somebody who follows him around. He's going to have somebody he can suppress. So that person doesn't have any stay or any appearance on television and so forth. It's going to be a disappearing vice president just the way Pence was. Well, okay, that leads me to a list of names. And I'll just rattle them off quickly. Tillis, McMasters, John Kelly, Jeff Sessions, Bill Barr, Mike Pence, Mark Esper and Mark Milley, all thought to be loyalists to Donald Trump. But in the end, they actually stepped up and were reminded of their oath to office to the Constitution and the rule of law. They disappointed Donald Trump in many, many ways. Mike Pence in the end disappointed Donald Trump. He didn't do what Donald Trump wanted him to do. Does that change now with the next VP? Yeah, that was then, that was then and this is now. Well, has he learned a few things since then? I was going to say he's learned. He's learned and he's not going to make that mistake again. I mean, if you go to the question of loyalty, he's going to pick somebody absolutely loyal because he's been around the block on loyalty and it didn't work. It didn't work for them and it didn't work for the cabinet in general. People writing books and telling stories about him, he's not going to permit that again. So yes, you can bet that whoever he picks is going to be unbreakable, going to be completely loyal. All righty, thank you. Hey, Chuck, what do you think the top criteria Donald Trump and I was going to say Donald Trump and his staff are looking for, but in the end, the decisions that really doesn't matter what the staff recommends is what Donald Trump wants. What is the top criteria for Donald Trump as it pertains to a VP pick? Easy, there's only one. The one who can get the most black university president inspired, guess it. So right now, at least Stefanik is probably the leading contender for that. Nobody really has come in with that kind of results before. You do talk about loyalty. The problem with loyalty to Trump is that some of the people who've tried the hardest could be loyal to him and to please him with what he said he wanted. It got bad results. It didn't turn out well. And so they got blank-hand as a result. So what names are out there? You know, I think he got to look seriously at Marjorie Taylor-Green and Lauren Boeber and Elise Stefanik because you're not going to find three people anywhere who are less intellectually, emotionally, and maturity qualified than those three. But they have what Trump wants, which is he can grab them by whatever and make them his VP. And can I add about Elise Stefanik? She had her moment of fame a few weeks ago with the university president. And I mean, at least two of us are lawyers. Actually, if we were attacking them, we could have done better. Across the, she's the Harvard lawyer, but this is just another comment on Harvard lawyers. It wasn't that good. It was their bad answers that got them in trouble. And if Trump is talking about her competence as a cross-examiner, I'm not impressed, I'm sorry. And I wasn't impressed when she was first elevated, when he first elevated her. She came from nowhere. And what has she done exactly? Has she got a record of legislation of policy? I don't think so. On the other hand, she'd be a great pick for him because of what happened with the universities and because she has a big public profile now among the Republicans. Well, let me go to that public profile as a question or a criteria is Donald Trump from past experience and what I've observed is he doesn't like anyone to outshine Donald Trump. He likes quiet, compliant type of staff and picks for his cabinet. Stefanik seems to have at least the ability to talk back and is that the kind of person he wants? No, no, I don't agree. I think that Trump or for that matter, Biden can have a conversation in the Oval Office with his vice president and he can say, just shut up, will you? I don't want you to speak about this, that and the other thing, just be quiet. And I'll tell you when and what to do. And your payoff for being quiet pursuant to my instructions is that you might get to be president. Otherwise, I'm going to attack you. And I think that ultimately pervades that these days, the culture of the Oval Office is the president can make the vice president disappear. Chuck, your thoughts on what Jada said? You know, I think we're missing something here. Trump's greatest weakness, which if he's not aware of that everybody else who knows him and the rest of us are, is he was completely incompetent and dealing with strong, intelligent women. And so he needs one of those three who is no intelligent woman is going to line up with him. So he just has to get one who's strengths is greater than their intelligence. Stefanik Green and Bovert, well-qualified in those two respects, lack of intelligence and great vocal force. Well, let me say that Bovert and who's the other one? Marjorie Taylor. Marjorie Taylor Green. They're not in the same category as Stefanik. They don't have a law degree. She had to be somewhat smart to get into Harvard. And she has the ability to articulate, you know, those thoughts. The other two are morons. And God knows how they got elevated to where they were. I guess Trump elevated them, that's what happened. But they are awful and they are a huge disability for him for running. To imagine Marjorie Taylor Green as vice president and possibly president and Bovert the same, that is a nightmare even in the contemplation. But if you're Trump, that's what you want, right? You want the vice president ascending to be such a nightmare that everybody will do whatever is necessary, including ignoring the law to keep you in power. Chuck, let me go to that point. John McCain, I think, was doing quite well in his polling numbers in his campaign against Barack Obama. And it took the actions or a question from Katie Kirk about, well, specifically, what books do you read? And then some satirical portrayals from Tina Fey on Saturday Night Live. And lo and behold, before you know it or before you can blink your eye, McCain's polling numbers dropped like a rock. And slowly correlated, I thought, to the pick of Sarah Palin, where people started imagining, well, what if John McCain has a coronary event in office? Are we going to entertain Sarah Palin as president of the United States? So let's compare that dilemma that John McCain had and Steve Schmidt as his advisor to a pick such as Marjorie Taylor Green or a Bovert. These are nightmares on Elm Street that could potentially be president of the United States. Your thoughts, is there any correlation? And is there a syndrome that your VP pick is now more important than ever? Yeah, I think it's a great question, Tim, because, and I think Jay hit on it a moment ago with the implication that if you pick someone that is even more horrific than Trump, while that might give him the security that everybody is going to want to keep him in power for as long as possible, it might just, when people go into a private voting booth, hey, it might just have the reverse impact and make people think, you know, maybe we don't want to go there. And Sarah Palin's the classic example of a, we definitely don't want to go there person. I totally agree. Right, well, okay, so in that same breath, isn't that what John McCain, excuse me for the inslip, isn't that what Joe Biden is basically up against with his current VP of Kamala Harris and her very, very low approval ratings. And I would say a lack of performance on anything she's been assigned to, to project manage. I'm specifically thinking of the immigration border issue. Yeah, and that's a good point, Tim, because he can't afford any minuses. He needs a VP candidate who's actually going to elevate his draw, his popularity. There's only one out there, and that's Michelle Obama. Hey, if she were his running mate, he would win. I would bet both of you dinner anywhere you want in Honolulu at my expense. You know, it's funny that you mentioned it because that is a rumor kind of flying around out there that she could be, but you know, you still have the political king makers and I'm thinking of South Carolina representative, Clyburn, and his insistence that Joe Biden pick an African-American vice president and it came to be Kamala Harris. Would there have to be the grand bargain behind closed doors for that to occur? That Kamala Harris actually is more interested in something in the administration other than VP and it'd be the grand bargain of convenience? That's a great question. It should have been Michelle Obama back then. They get a chance to fix it. They screwed up. Do it right this time. Is there a time? Sure. There's always time. Okay. Oh no, no, no, there's... Until February 9th anyway, right? Yeah, February 9th is very close already. You know, two weeks away, less and... It doesn't take two weeks to sign an application. No, but you talk about negotiating a back room bargain about this. Let's see, there would have to be Clyburn because he's an important kingmaker, of course, and Biden and Kamala Harris. He's the vice president. But she has no clout. Who's really gonna be involved in the decision-making? Don't you need the Senate leader and maybe the House leader for the Democrats? Well, no. No. For example, if Michelle Obama is the one in the back room deal and everyone who has an interest in that, I mean, it's a small group, it's best for them, agrees that she should replace Kamala Harris and Kamala Harris says, I'd like to spend more time with my family, right? Then, and Michelle Obama files papers by the deadline. Now she's the vice presidential candidate. And I agree that it would be a completely winning move that detracts from this, it eliminates this handicap that Biden has with Kamala Harris. What would Michelle Obama bring to the ticket that Kamala Harris is not bringing to the ticket? Reliability. Reliability, okay. Yeah, and Obama and the name Obama. And every time she's appeared, she's been a star and she's real and kind and concerned about the country and democracy. Everybody knows she could be such a star in this election she could turn it on its head whether Trump gets the nomination, which she will or not. Well, it seems to me that Joe Biden's campaign so far is lackluster. There's comments that there's not a lot of energy behind in the Democratic Party. Wouldn't she bring that to the ticket that there'd be a renewed interest? And certainly that correlates to a turnout and votes on election day. Absolutely, because she brings what the Democrats most need and that's charisma. Yes, charisma, there it is, credibility and charisma. Well, is it time for me to bring my point of optimism to your attention, gentlemen? I told you I had a point of optimism and I'm sure you were gonna cover this anyway, Tim. I bet I wasn't. Go ahead, Jay, we're dying to hear it. Have either of you guys ever known anybody who had a dementia problem? And if you think back on your own experience with that individual or individuals, you know that sometimes it happens low but sometimes more often it happens fast. And whether it's Alzheimer's or just ordinary dementia, I think it's clear to anybody listening that Trump has it, confusing people, confusing events, confusing things we all know. He's going down, it's happening more and he insists on doing these rallies where people give him adulation so he's gonna do more rallies and he's gonna demonstrate that he has some kind of dementia and he's gonna get it all confused and when they go privately into the voting booth, all of them, they're gonna say, is this guy up to being the leader of the free world with all the power that he demands, how can he exercise that power rationally if he's losing it? And I don't think it takes a psychologist or a physician to see this happening. We can all see it happening because life expectancy in this country is growing up and therefore the incidence of dementia is growing up. We all know somebody. We know how fast it grows and we know what it looks like and sounds like and where it ends up. So I think this is going to happen. It's just a wild speculation on my part but I think this is going to happen and it's going to happen fast enough so that in the next 10 months, we all of us see it happening and that will undermine his campaign. Donald Trump was seething mad that Nikki Haley hasn't dropped out of the race now. I suspect that part of his anger is basically because Nikki Haley really delivered a knockout punch but a severe punch suggesting exactly what you said and that is that Donald Trump has confused the Nikki Haley with Nancy Pelosi. It wasn't just a slip of the tongue. The comments went on for several minutes during one of his campaign stops and she's suggesting that he is experiencing mental decline to your point. To what degree does Nikki Haley continue on that avenue and how effective will it be to give people a second thought about Donald Trump? Chuck, you? Well, first, I mean, I certainly don't agree with her political views but I have to give Nikki Haley credit because perceiving mental decline in Trump, that's a challenge. I mean, it's kind of like figuring out which is the whitest snowflake. But it's a challenge that no one has been able to deliver or had the courage to deliver. So does Nikki Haley get some brownie points for saying something that Donald Trump, you know, is going to just go on court about? Well, Donald Trump is always on court, but more so. He's mentally on court, but more so. Two questions that she raises. I mean, one is we know Trump cannot deal with strongman and Nikki Haley to the extent that she presents as a strong, articulate woman. He has no defense to that. She's going to look better than him every single time she does that. If she stays with that strength, just be a strong, independent woman. You know, if your politics are screwed up, that's okay because Trump's are even more screwed up. But the second thing is we need to think about in this country, we're trying to be a representative of democracy, right? When Harold Carswell was nominated for the Supreme Court the Republicans argued that mediocrity should be represented on the Supreme Court. Well, Jay, shouldn't dementia be represented in the presidency? If we're going to have a representative democracy? This is the part where we edit the video. You know, Chuck, my answer to you is Will Drow Wilson. They had a massive stroke while being President of the United States and was shuttled off into the back room of the White House and basically his wife ran the government. Which was an improvement, actually. She was far less racist than Woodrow. Okay, to the topic of this show, why a VP pick is critical in 2024? Does this enter into the minds of the voters about Donald's mental acuity or the lack thereof? Let's take a really smart voter. I don't know how many there are, maybe not that many. A real smart... Thank you. A real smart voter who has followed the history of the Trump administration. And remember that, what is it? 25th Amendment would allow a president to be removed. I don't think it happened in the case of Woodrow Wilson because he just disappeared into the back end of the White House. But formally removed from the office. It takes the vote of his cabinet. Okay, and in the first administration, there were people in the Department of Justice, as I remember, and even on his cabinet that were saying, this guy has to be removed. He's incompetent to be president. And remember what happened? Nothing happened because the cabinet would never have voted for that. They were all Trumpers. And that's the way it works. He appoints loyalists and they would never be so disloyalist for all amount of office. Well, a discerning voter in the privacy of the election, both voting, would presumably remember that. And he would say that the 25th Amendment is not gonna stop Trump in office. He could be in full dementia and the 25th Amendment will not operate because all his cabinet will be loyalists. That's interesting, because remember at the last 2020 election, Donald Trump lost and it was reported by his staff. And I think Mark Meadows, his chief of staff, that Donald Trump was saying some pretty crazy things so much so that General Mark Milley had to call China and say, we're not looking to start a war with you, which Donald Trump took exception to. But it got to the point where there was real concern, but yet no movement on the 25th Amendment. You know, you asked a little while ago, Tim, should Hailey keep on pushing this issue? Is this a cornerstone of her campaign for the nomination? And that's a hard question, actually, because if she goes too far, then she will look like she's hitting a man when he's down. She will look like she's praying on a handicap. Nobody wants to be in that space. On the other hand, or she says nothing, she can be buying into the loyalist approach. He is the one that I would look to to keep the issue alive. I guess Mark Meadows is not going to do that. Either are his other former loyalists. They're not going to come out, although they should. They should be writing books about them. Now, Nazi is, right now. It's like his sister did. Yeah, we have lots of those books. They should come out big time, but we can't count on that. What we can count on is Hailey has got it in her platform, and she has got to do it the right way. Because it's the right way, I think it could be a telling blow against Trump. And all the while, Trump is probably going to disintegrate further. Boy, you see some things that really get my brain churning because it was just about a week and a half ago that Donald Trump was imitating President Biden, the President of the United States. He's imitating him on stage about some of his, President Biden has a stammer and a stutter, and some of his comments are a little bit off, but he was mocking him. So it's okay for Donald Trump to get a pass on that. No one really talks too much about it, but even you suggest someone as Nikki Hailey to do the same or far less than the same, then she's risking her political future. Isn't that interesting that we have this dichotomy of behavior between Donald Trump and any other politician? Well, it reminds me of Trump in that unforgettable photograph we were, he was imitating a woman who had some kind of disability. You remember that? Well, it was a video, and it was, yeah, a reporter. A reporter with palsy, I think. It was unforgettable, and it sticks in the minds of voters, I hope. But I think at the end of the day, when Trump attacks people, if he doesn't have a good reason, and he makes it up, I was telling you about the culture of Queens County where I grew up and where Trump grew up. And it's called ranking in school. You find these very strange insults to make and you keep making them. And Trump has a whole playbook of insults that he used, including insults to Biden, where he, you know, he imitates Biden because Biden can't speak that well and he has a stutter and what have you. But he can't say that Biden is in dementia. It's different to have a stutter than be in dementia. I think we have to make that distinction. But I think Haley is making that distinction for us. Good point, good point. Chuck, you know, in the past, the president would look to the vice president to see what they could bring to the table as far as votes for the general election. Kennedy knew that Johnson had a clear advantage in the South, Texas specifically, that he could bring the South end to someone who was born and raised and spoke with a new Eastern accent. So Johnson was his perfect pick in that regards. Do politicians today still look to see what you can bring to the table as far as votes? And if so, would that then point a finger or a direction to Tim Scott or Sarah Huckabee Sanders? And the answer to the most questions is no. I mean, there really is no more critical strategic thinking in politics, unfortunately. If the Democrats did it, they essentially couldn't lose because they've got the most defeatable opposition in US history on the merit, right? But the second part of the question, which becomes interesting, is if you look at the choice of how you present the person, and which person you choose who's gonna bring in the most votes, that's not gonna work for Trump. Trump needs somebody who has two abilities. One, they will do exactly what he wants, even if he doesn't know what that is. And number two, the result will be exactly what he wants, even if he doesn't know what that is. That's a level of masterminding that Bill Barr could not achieve, that nobody in the Trump administration ever achieved. In fact, I don't know anybody that even achieved one of those two things, but that's his criteria, which is pretty challenging. Biden, on the other hand, does need somebody who will bring in votes. There is no question, the only person out there who is reliably able to do that is Michelle Obama, unless he can get Oprah to run. If he can get Oprah to run, then that might be another possibility. Yeah, Michelle's better. Michelle is better. But Oprah is still better than Kamala and all of us. I think Jay suggested you get two for the price of one. You get also the assistance and advice council of former President Barack Obama. Yes, you do. Yeah, but who's advice and assistance do you think he got? If it weren't for Michelle, how many more serious judgment errors would he have made in his presidency? I don't think we can even count though. Yeah, I agree. That's a great point, Chuck. I'd like to say that... If you want adult supervision, Michelle Obama is the one you want. I think that this election in general is gonna be what the question before the House and the country is, what kind of a country do we wanna be? And I think in the next 10 months, one issue is going to surface during these campaigns. And it is the disadvantage, the impoverished, the homeless, and the lives they lead in this country. And what have the two parties, if you call them, if you call them Republican parties, what have they done to help with that? And how kind have they been? Now, there's a movie called Inheritance. And it's at one of the film festivals now. And you can actually watch an advanced copy on the web. And Inheritance is a documentary about impoverished, homeless, and very sad stories about families in this country who are just poor. And most of them, by the way, are in the South. Not all of them, of course, but most of them are in the South. When this movie comes out in public, I think it's going to accentuate the issue. And of course, Biden would be on the right side of that issue. He would be talking about what he has done and the other things he will do. Trump will not. And I think that if the public gets sensitized this issue of poverty and caring for people, and if it becomes as it should be a proper issue in the campaign, it's going to be a major point of, major platform point for both of them. And the question is, by the way, I heard some of this on NPR and it's very, very compelling about how the poor people in this country, the disadvantaged, the minorities lead really awful lives, awful. I mean, it's unbelievable how little they have on their plate. We don't know that, but that's the fact. And this movie shows. Anyway, assuming that that is a big issue in this campaign and going forward, and the country will turn on what kind of a country you want to be, who's the better choice of vice president for Trump? Now, rationally, he would want somebody sensitive to those issues. I don't think there's anyone in his lit lineup that you mentioned, the possibilities. Robert, really, and so forth. All the ones that you've mentioned, I don't think any of them are sensitive to this issue. Thank you, Jay. We've run out of time. Chuck, your final thoughts? I think Jay has nailed it. And if you take that issue as one that could be a dealmaker for the Democrats, deal breaker for the Republicans, there is no one in the country better to sell that issue and it's important than Michelle Obama. Great. You know, Jay, you really hit it on the head as what kind of America do we want? And I'm thinking of the 1946 movie that baby boomers have been watching during every Christmas season. Gen X, Millennials, even Gen Z have been watching a movie called It's a Wonderful Life. And if you've seen that movie, you know that there was a decision that now is before America. And that is, would you rather be living in a Potterville or a Bedford Falls community? And those are the choices we have between the two candidates. And I'd like to thank my co-host Jay Fiedel and our special esteemed guest, Chuck Crumpton, for their attendance and their sage-wise comments today. And won't you join us next week? And for American Issues Take One, I'm Tim Apacheu, your host. And until then, Aloha.