 Well, well, good morning to you. Welcome back to Y254 TV. This is why in the morning and as well as the visit, we get to crash on all queens. And in this week's segment of Strength of a Woman, we get to highlight Helen Gavoni-Gidinji, who is a fashion entrepreneur running garment of grace. I hope I said it well. Yes, garments of grace. Like the garment of grace. Government of grace? Yeah, a lot of people get it mixed up, but it's garments of grace. Thank you for making time for us. I'm glad to be here. So let's just start right there. Okay. Why did you choose the name garment of grace? Well, I didn't choose it. I think I was given the name garment of grace. Oh, interesting. You want to tell us the background story? Yes, sure. I had the idea of what I wanted to do and then I didn't know what name to use. So I started brainstorming. I was writing names on a list of paper and I was like, oh, this sounds nice. This sounds nice. And then the name garment of grace just came and it sounded perfect. It was in line with what the business is about and I liked it and I went with it. So tell us what is garment of grace? So garment of grace is a modest fashion brand and our aim is to deliver graceful, timeless and feminine pieces to women. You actually look the best. Thank you. Times when you hear you're meeting someone who's in the fashion space, I don't know why we have this much expectation about people. So when did this passion for fashion begin? What's the journey behind? I think my journey with the love for fashion started when I was a little girl. I always thought I'd be a model. I thought I'd be on the runway and then I tried out for modeling. I did. After high school I did some auditions. I went to some modeling agencies but I was always told you're either too big then I was bigger in size. You're either too big or you're too short. So my dreams for modeling were killed. And then for some time I was not sure what I wanted to do but I knew I loved clothes. I knew I loved good clothes. I liked looking nice and then I think the whole creating of clothes started when I was in uni. I think around 2nd year or 3rd year there. That's where the inspiration came. I met a girl in school. I really used to look at her and I'm like this girl looks so nice like her dresses are always on point. She's always well dressed. Her dresses are colorful. They are fashionable and I was so curious. So one time I approached her after class. I was like hey how are you? I really like your dresses. Where do you get them? I just wanted her to give me a plug so they can also go and buy my clothes there. Then to my surprise she told me she makes them herself. And I was like wow what do you mean you make them yourself. I get the fabrics, I cut them, I stitch them by myself. And I was so blown away. And I was like you have to teach me because I want to make clothes as well. I want to be able to create pieces like what you're wearing. She was so kind. She took me to where she buys fabrics. She showed me how to cut. And then the amazing thing is at the time she used to stitch her dresses by hand. No machines just by hand. So she was like I do it by hand so you have to learn to do it by hand. Luckily I had background knowledge from home science. So I knew a bit of stitching here and there. So it wasn't hard to catch on with the stitching bit. What was the hardest part was how to actually cut the dress. How to fit the top part to the bottom part. Those were the challenges that I had. But she walked me through and she was so kind. Her name is Wendy. She actually owns her own fashion brand right now. And I'm grateful that she was there to hold my hand and to help me start. I'm just curious. What were you studying in Kampas? Economics and statistics. We were both doing economics and statistics. I pity your parents. Afrikan parents have this mentality right? I sent you to go and do economics. What are you doing? Afrikan parents we love them. It wasn't different for my parents. But the thing I'm grateful for is that my parents were very supportive. Well in school they were supportive of it as you do it as a hobby. And then you focus on your studies. You finish your studies you go get a job like everyone else. And I was on board with that because when I started I didn't start it for a business. I wasn't doing it to be in business. I was doing it to be able to create clothes for myself. So I was on board. I was like yeah I'll do it. Don't worry I'll finish the degree. I'll go get a job as everyone else. So that was the plan. And I started the plan for some time. But my parents were supportive to the extent that my dad bought me my first machine. So at least I graduated from my hand to now at least owning a machine in the house where I used to now do stitching. And then at the time people around me my friends liked my clothes and they were like can you also make for me so I started making for my friends as well. And I started to make a little bit of money. But I still didn't think of it as a business. And me it was have extra pocket money. There are these people who think that pursuing especially the embroidery and tailoring is it's only job guany. There's a notion that people have when they talk about you know there's that notion people had in the past but if you've not made the cut to go to the university the most available job to go for tailoring. So how different is the perception right now? Well right now the perception has changed I think. But also I have to say it's all about how you brand yourself. Because you can choose to brand yourself as just someone who left school and did not have the credentials and qualifications to go to uni. And so they just settled for something. But you can look at fashion as art. And fashion in the global market is recognized as art. And it fetches a lot of money. And I think even to just encourage people who feel like they only did fashion or any other tailoring and other small technical causes for those people who might feel like they were disadvantaged because they could not make the cut that's not the case. Because any craft that you have can fetch you whatever amount of money you decide. And so don't despise where you are. And even for me for some time I had the same perception I was like of course this fashion thing and this tailoring thing would have to be a side hustle I have to get a corporate job. But that didn't work out like that. And now I am in fashion full time and it's what is my full time job. So at what point did you decide to make it a full time job? I think when I was leaving uni without knowing though because when I left, when I was leaving now my undergraduates and I was graduating most of my colleagues almost knew they wanted to either work here or there and for me I was like I actually don't know where I want to work and I don't think I want to get a regular job. I just didn't know it at the time but I think that was in my subconscious it was always there that I'm not sure I'm going to get a regular job. And so I tried, I tried applying, I did internships and all that but I was now doing, I now started like I'd already set it up as a business although I didn't know the basic principles of running a business at the time but I'd started and I was doing it full time. I was making clothes, I had gathered a few, a small clientele for myself and so I was already beginning to do it and I think after I graduated I made up my mind and I was like I want to give it a good shot and see where it can go. So I think at that point is where I made that decision that I want to pursue this as a career. So take us through how did you start? What are the challenges you faced? Wow, how did I start? I think my starting point was the story with the first dress that I made that I was helped by my friend Wendy. That was the first, that was the start but the business maybe started around when I was clearing uni. That's when I began. I set up a business, I had a small stall in downtown. I had one machine and at that time I had stopped doing it by myself because all along I would do the tailoring myself. I had taught myself, maybe I can say I taught myself the basics of tailoring with the help of many other tailors. I was the type of person that would go to a workshop, a fundi's workshop and I'm like can I just sit here and watch you and learn and then I would go with my pieces that I've cut and I've stitched by hand and I remember one time I met this fundi and he was like you stitched that by hand and I was like yeah, he was like why? I was like I don't have a machine and I want to make dresses, so what do you mean why? So he was kind enough, he allowed me to be using his workshop per time and he would show me. I think that was where I started to perfect my skill. He would teach me how to, the basics of garment construction and then YouTube is a good teacher. I taught myself a lot on YouTube and then as the orders would come you realize that you can't do it by yourself. I didn't have enough speed and enough skill at the time, tailoring skill, but with time I sharpened my skills and at that time I discovered something called piecework. So piecework is where you get an order then you subcontract another tailor to do it for you. But you take for him everything, the fabrics, all the accessories needed, so that's how I started my business. That was my first proper structure for starting my business. I discovered I can use fundis so I would get orders and then subcontract another fundi to do it for me. So of course the quality became a bit better and I was able to start like that. How do you, of course fashion keeps changing. What was fashionable five years ago might not be what's fashionable right now. So how do you keep up with the ever-growing trends? You can't. I think fashion keeps changing true but also fashion revolves. I think if you look at what our parents used to wear in the 80s or 90s, I don't know what era that was. Those things are coming back and those things are becoming now fashionable. So if you were to chase trends it would be very frustrating and you can't really keep up. I think what you do is identify what you love to do and what you would want to create in the market and then pursue that. Whether it's trendy or fashionable, you do what you believe in and I think that's what I'm trying to do with Kamens of Grace. I identified that I wanted to do modest fashion. So modest fashion is rarely trendy because it's longer hemlines, you're more covered and all that. So with such you realize you can't really follow the regular trends. You have to create something that is authentic. So maybe an advice to people who are coming up in fashion is to not necessarily follow trends. Of course observe the patterns because people want to be trendy and then incorporate that with what you would want to create for yourself. Do you ever find yourself under pressure to at least dress up? I would say yes and no. So no because I know I can if I want to. I can always make myself a dress. But if there is a function, a birthday, a wedding, a graduation, there is pressure because everyone is looking at you like you have to preach, you have to practice what you preach. So there is always a bit of pressure but luckily I think I pull it off. In line with that same question do you ever look at women who probably look fashionably awkward and you're like tasa ungeva kitu ingine? I think I don't do that. When I look at my own fashion journey there are times I would see all the pictures of what I thought was fashionable and I would cringe at myself. I can't believe I thought that was fashionable. So I think coming from that and also seeing how year in, year out something that I thought was fashionable this year it's not fashionable the next year I think it maybe allows me to have more grace for people but then maybe what I look at sometimes is I wish people would wear more fitted clothes like just wear something that is don't wear something that's too baggy don't wear something that's too tight I think those are the areas where I'm a bit judgmental when it comes to fashion I'm like just get the right size because you'd be surprised anything can look nice as long as you have the right size. So how do you find the balance between your personal life and your work life? Can you really find balance? I think I love what I do I really do I could do it I could do it 24 hours Honestly there are times I'm left at work late times I'm it's at night and I have to do research I'm just looking at what's happening in the fashion world So I really enjoy it I think so a lot of times it doesn't feel like work but how I balance is maybe honestly I can't say I've figured out how to balance it and it's really a big part of my life right now but also maybe having structures around your life knowing when to work, when to stop working that also helps a bit but generally I don't feel like it's strenuous How do you help ladies become fashionably sensitive? Wow, sensitive in what way? Say the way you probably when you said you don't judge when you don't judge someone based on how they address but you meet someone now when I woke up and they realized I was interviewing Oh no I still didn't think What do I wear? She will come and look at me and she will think Did you have to pair that with that? So how do you help women who you meet out there and you feel like we could do a bit with your fashion How do I do it? So how do you do it? First of all I don't think I put myself out there like that but what I would say is whenever someone now comes onto our platform either our Instagram page or when someone now comes to our shop and now I have the opportunity to interact with them I think for me first of all anyone who has interacted with me and they are like oh I don't think this would look nice on me I usually tell them I think anything can look nice on anyone provided you get the right size I really believe in that concept of just get what is the right size for you and then from there we identify what do you like what don't you like there are people who are like I don't like showing my hands like okay great how can you then wear sleeves and you'll still look nice there are people who are like I like my dresses a bit shorter I'm like okay let's find a sweet spot that you're also not in descent I like them long you know so I just try and meet people at their point of need and see how to improve that or work around that That brings me to this aspect of of course this is a women segment there's a woman out there who have been hearing that there are certain body shapes that you can wear certain body clothes you know you've been told kupura jo la kaka wa fanta you can wear a fanta orange usingangare kubang was a straight and you know you don't have the figure to do the straight straight clothes so do you have something a sort of guidance I don't know probably because this is a women's show and someone is sitting there thinking okay can she probably touch on what different body sizes people can do you know probably in as much as you are you advocate for you as you've said you believe that everyone can wear anything so long as you get the right size but there's that outfit that a plus size would wear that that petite person would look very ok so also just to be sensitive to people's different body shapes and sizes because I think the topic over women's body is very it's a very sensitive topic and I think also my personality I'm not very confrontational I'm not this is your body type so this is what you need to dress and that paired with the fact that I have made different types of outfits over the course of time I've made the straight ones the a-line ones I've done different type of things and I've come to the conclusion that anything can look good on anyone people come to my maybe people come to their workshop and they're like I'm a short girl so I can't wear maxi dresses then I ask them have you tried you know have you tried or have you just excluded yourself and say that I'm a short girl I can't wear maxi dresses maybe around five women ladies come to their shop and they're like I'm a short girl I can't wear maxi dresses so I just wear one and they actually wear and they're like oh wow it actually looks good on me so my conclusion is different body types how do you dress them identify what you're most comfortable in I won't tell you what to wear because what I tell you to wear might not be comfortable for you but look for what you feel most comfortable in and then gravitate towards styles that are like that I was not conscious about my hips I was not conscious about my tummy or anything like that then look for more dresses that are in line with what you felt most comfortable in but in an effort to feel comfortable don't look for oversized things or tight things but look for the thing that you felt most comfortable in and then gravitate maybe build your style around that style do you what are the some of the challenges you have currently now that you are a grown brand wow I think the challenges of a business apart from maybe the business courses in school you're not equipped to be an entrepreneur you're given theoretical everything is theoretical there is no practicality and even for people who maybe do business administration or B-com or anything I don't even know which business courses are offered but anyone who started maybe a business course you will come to the market field and find that things are actually I don't want to say different because I'm not aware they are different but you will find that the practicality of it is different from what you are taught and so you have to constantly teach yourself and I think I was pushed into the business field as I've told you I didn't come into this thinking I would make a business out of it I just thought at best I'll have nice clothes which I'll be making for myself and then now I'm building a business around that and so coming from a background being trained as an entrepreneur my biggest challenge is there are so many things that I don't know and perhaps if I knew better I would be further in business so that's a challenge the lack of knowledge and so I'm always trying to look for videos online trying to look for people who are in business and find out what it is that they are doing but that disconnect the lack of knowledge can be a big challenge that makes me think about right now as you are talking men the aspect of men is not being talked about in the fashion space and right now you will realize that we have male models and you know men are becoming more conscious conscious about fashion in the way they color coordinate but you know nowadays you'll find a man in a red suit and a green suit exactly what do you take about men in fashion I read an article the other day someone who does business and marketing and they were saying in 2023 if she was to start a fashion business she would do men's fashion and then I had a conversation with someone else who said if they were to do fashion they would also do male fashion because they feel that it is ignored and that men are always looking for nice things I've not interacted with a lot of men fashion wise to know what their problems are but what I think is that for you to build a good business you need to identify the challenges and so the article that I was referring to said that she would do men's fashion and she would focus on the shorter men because they have the most challenges finding the right fit so I think men's fashion is largely untapped and most of them I think by ready made clothes I know a few people in the industry who focus on male fashion but I think it's an area that can be touched on you see the way nowadays especially CEOs famous people have communication, PR brand manager do you feel like it's necessary for the same people to have fashion I don't know how to call them I don't know how to call you fashion consultant or something and there is a niche I don't know how well known it is but there is the image branding I think that one also touches on fashion a bit on fashion so I think it's there but I don't think a lot of people have embraced it but it's something that is up and coming and people can embrace it How important do you think it is? Image branding, I think it's very important because first impressions people say that first impressions are everything so it's important to how you present yourself because sometimes the situation where all the people get to see and know about you is how you look they'll not get to hear you they'll not get to know how brilliant you are and all that so how you present yourself is definitely very important so CEOs start looking for brand image consultant image consultant for sure there's something I wanted to ask and it's almost disappearing what do you wish they told you before you began this journey? wow everything I wish I was told that it's going to be difficult but anyway everything in life is not easy so I think that one I should have figured out on my own I wish they told me that when you get into business learn the basics of running a business first because there are some years there even before now I think I've shared up until where how I started and then now I've not shared the story about garments of grace but there was some years there there were some years there where I didn't fully understand the basics of running a business and as much as you have the talent and the skill and I think that's where it comes in you may have the talent and the skill but if you want to use your talent and your skill to make money then you have to teach yourself the basics of running a business or if you don't have the time to do that and you have the capacity to do that then hire someone who has the basics to do it but at the end of the day even you as the talent you as the one with the skill you need to also have those basics so I wish I was told that coming into this that you should have been more prepared should have been more prepared because business is it just doesn't happen it has principles that you follow it has do this then do this this is how you manage your money this is how you market there are so many aspects of a business of running a business and growing it not just running it because I think we all want growth so there is all that and so that one I should have been prepared for myself what would you tell Ayan fashion entrepreneur coming up lady man I would tell them that they are doing the right thing first of all for pursuing their dreams their dreams are valid no dream is too small and no job is too small again to maybe take us back to the conversation we were talking about how you feel like you didn't make the cuts and so you had to do a small cost there is no such thing no job is too small as long as it is a gift that God gave you it can make room for you and it can grow to lengths and depths that you didn't imagine so keep pushing teach yourself everything that you need to learn about running a business about your skill become the best at what you do don't stop until don't stop until you're proud but also most importantly I've been listening to some personal development teachings and they were saying when it comes to your value and your skill don't stop until your audience is kings so until you're serving kings that's when you know that you sharpened your gift to the best of your ability so don't stop keep pushing wow as we bring this conversation to a close of course you've told me what would you wish they told you what would you tell your younger self what would I tell my younger self wow I would tell my younger self that I would thank her for starting the journey because it is my younger self that started the journey for me I would really thank her for being bold in the face of uncertainty and it takes a level of