 The docs meeting. Hey, Mike and Jamie. Thanks for coming. I'm just going to throw the notes here and the note stock here somewhere. Okay. The working group. Just add your name. If you don't mind as you join, but we can sort of formalize a little bit more these meetings. I haven't been doing that other than recording them. So I wanted to do that and then share quickly, just share my screen. So we have the agenda in the video for people who want to follow along via the agenda. And I had really only one item here today. I'm sure I should have more. But it was really an update on the migration of the guides and the template creation and the status of the, the guides repo that's in my goes repo and whether or not we can move it to. Okay, D dot I was anytime soon. So I thought that was really the topic I wanted to talk about today. Did you guys have other ones. No, and there's not an update on that because I haven't gotten the stubs to be non stubs yet. The few that are so once that's done in the next couple ways. Hey, Bruce is here. Hey, Bruce. Hi there. Welcome. I just put the docs meeting may be a very short meeting because not a lot of work got done. Because everybody was working on other things. I can understand that I did. I did put up a taxonomy and slack. I made it. I made a jiff and or whatever those are called. And just adjust. Yeah, that one. Can you share the just link here. I think so. Let me just. And I'll add it in. Does that might be a good thing to chat about for a few minutes. Because from the update from Jamie, we haven't really moved the needle forward this week. I'm sure you're all moving those needles in other spaces. So I'm not too worried about it. Yes, well, I'm my, I guess Vadima's managed to take out my test. Installation and though. That's still sitting on the other hand, I managed to uncriple my, my real one. So that was good news. So get. Who was the person last that was in the meeting last. Well, 2 weeks ago, I guess would be who actually wrote up. Not the taxonomy, but someone else wrote up. Yeah, so I didn't catch you. That was actually, I just saw something posted in the chat. That they did like sketches basically with like stick people and stuff like that. Oh, yeah. If you have the link to that throw that in the chat to see if I can find that. And we'll take a, take a look at that and that. So maybe we'll take a look at the taxonomy. I know Jamie, you're going to do a little bit of work on it this week and we'll see if we can move the needle and get that over into the okay D work. I think the blog post went out and gotten some good feedback from product managers and other people around the work that we're doing here. The other thing, and I'll bring it up at the okay D working group while we're sitting here waiting for Bruce to find his just file. I'm in, I'm in GitHub. I don't see where I find just type the type the letters gist in your browser, and it will come up from your history. It's just that'll work. Yeah, but it should be possible to get it from GitHub. Yes, but gastro and histone strommel tour. So the other thing that I wanted to mention and ask people's opinion of, there is some work around the OCP nightlies. Any of you use the OCP nightlies not the okay D ones but the OCP nightlies or anybody on this call doing using that yet. Just the okay D nightlies. Okay. I test with OCP nightlies. Okay. Is the is the idea that the OCP that there is a need from our OCP nightly testers or what what's your question. What's modem in my question is, is people looking for other people to test the OCP nightlies. Which we at the point this point in time they have to use our cause our rail Coro West. So I'm just looking to hear what people and I know because Mike, you're inside of red hat. So you have all the subscriptions to anything you need. So that's, that's a different part. I was just curious. And I'll ask again next week to just just to get people's feedback on who's who's looking at that stuff. I can. So if someone needs some help, I can automate a bill to that. So we're looking at building the community of like some sort of community hub for people who do that work. So I was just looking for out external to red hat. So something different from okay D. So I was just curious if anybody who hasn't I'll ask again next week. So there's the just file Bruce do you want to share your screen and open it up and show us your taxonomy. And we'll use some time today to. Let's see. Another button. How to allow. Okay. Lurdy. And then we'll switch gears. Was this the sharing screen you have to go to assist. Are you on a Mac. Yeah, I'm on a Mac. Yeah, go to your sister preferences. So Mike, while he's doing that, has anybody added anything more to your repose any of the. We just lost Bruce. Well, you have to restart once you check that box. You have to actually restart. No, I haven't had any more additions. You know, Jamie, if you're good on that change that I tagged you on. At the, you know, like, I don't, I don't have a ton of time during the day during the week to hack on the docs, but like the next thing I was going to do was kind of the same thing that Jamie's thinking about, which is like changing the, we still have a couple, like Vadim's and Shrees and Charrows. And I think there's one other. I think that there's one that you added Jamie that's a link out to another. Right. Yeah, those, those need to clean up the studs. Yeah, exactly. Yeah, just clean those up and like, even like I liked the automated systems content you put in there to like I thought I thought that was good as well it like gives a great example of like an add on type of document where you're describing something very specific. You know, to Diane, to your original point, like, I'm ready to move that to okd.io whenever you, if you want to move that repo, whenever you're ready. Until Jamie does his updates. So that way the two of you can flux and jam on that and merge and pull and all that stuff and then that way I won't be a bottleneck if somebody can't raise the dead and get me to do the merge or something. And then we're ready with that. We'll do that. And then we'll, we'll make a little blog about it as well to go along with it to make Joseph happy and get the word out. Okay. So yeah, so like, you know, I guess, depending on, you know, I just keep an eye out and, you know, if Jamie puts up PRs, I'll review them and whatnot. I'll message you, I just haven't had a chance to do anything and won't until probably like tomorrow or Thursday. And then I'll be. Yeah, no worries. Yeah, like, if nothing, if nothing's happened in like, and I get some time on the weekend, I'll probably the next thing I was going to do is just start hacking on some of those to make them all look consistent. So I think it sounds like Jamie and I are both on this page in terms of what needs to happen next. Yeah, I think you got it. And then maybe sometime on Monday we could do the merge over so that on Tuesday at the next okd full working group meeting it might be in the okd repo. So let's use that sort of as a time frame if you guys get through it. And I'll be, I'll be around for all day Friday too so if you get it done before Friday or the before the end of the weekend, I have a little bit of stuff for you on this weekend but I'm normally online. So you're back. Yeah, it kicked me out. So let's just see if I can do this now. Okay. Oh, there we go. Can you see that? Yep, I can see you and there you go. Yeah, so this I actually got some suggestions from third parties that I incorporated but actually there were some things that I had left out on purpose because I didn't want to get into the complexities of it but this was just sort of a, you know, sort of the big choices going from the top down. And, you know, so it's per, I would say obvious to most people that have played around with it very much. The only question I have is, and it's just a naming commission and is the livevert one is that and I think we said we were going to start calling it livevert and not bare metal anymore. Did we make a decision about that because I think that impacts a little bit what the work that Mike and Jamie are doing for the stubs and everything are in the stubs and the guides are we still calling it bare metal livevert. We only have one bear right now we we changed one of the bare metals into home lab and the other bear metal becomes single note. I think like we have to be careful because like livevert does not equal bare metal like you know you could be running bare metal directly on the metal right. Yeah, I think that we. Yeah, that's that's what that's the conversation I was referring to so as long as is good. That was, that was my issue is as well like that. But to me bare metal is okay I've got a box with no operating system on it. Where do I go next. Pretty much all of the bare metal ones I've seen so far really run on top of some version of a UNIX like thing. And is the livevert ones that we're talking about all going to be UPI. It could be IPI with open stack. Right although that's that to me that would be another like that was one that I didn't put in. But that would be a well no I didn't put it in. Okay, so I've got that under a cloud provider. So you're building your own cloud provider essentially but yeah. So I think and that's that's. Now, I was trying to think of that the like Charo, like we have we have a difference between Charo and Joseph. And that Charo is pushing little nut boxes, you know, farms of them, like he's actually spent more than enough to get a blade server. But and then yourself is going with with, you know, a big single server and running VMware on it. And I'm not I'm not sort of making that distinction. I guess it's implied by the, you know, the choice of like Joseph is using VMware and Charles using livevert. And the the people that did the, the bare metal one, whose names are on the tip of my tongue. We're also using livevert. Yeah, Sullivan and. Yeah, and yeah, the other guy who who did it a year ago. Yeah, all right. Yeah, it'll come to me by the end of the meeting. Okay. Listen to them. Yeah. They both were J's there ago. That's all I had in my brain. On the number for the DNS. Is that DNS and DHCP or is. Well, see that's that's the annoying thing because DNS mask does a whole bunch of stuff. This bind is just DNS. So. And, you know, so that that's if you want an ugliness in my taxonomy. It's more of a, I guess a graph than a tree. But most people don't seem to like using DNS mask. Anyway, for whatever reason, I guess for from a hobby lab standpoint, sort of makes more sense if you if you're not actually doing. Sort of like bind if you're doing system in, you're probably used to that. You know, because it's been around, you know, for. Half centuries anyway. Almost. But yeah, so that's like, I could put DNS mask under. IP assignment. To nodes. And again, the IP assignment to know that was a little bit. I guess it's what I didn't have a decent name for that because. You know, like we've got 3 different levels of. IP is going on, right? And here I was just talking about the UPI part of it. But, you know, I mean, if you want to, you know, like. Again, the only reason I'm asking that if it doesn't bother anybody else is because from last the workshop. And that's just the way we freeze it in the, in the title. So, yeah. Okay, so who was using, but was anybody using DNS mask. In the workshop. I don't think so. I don't think so. I know I didn't see. Craig's, but he is buying the last I saw. Yeah, I think so. So the goal with this is like. I really actually very likely that I like the way that you've broken it down is to make sure we have. This is sort of the flow of all the decisions you have to make. It's like a decision tree basically when you're playing a cluster. And that with each of these. Items on this list, there might be a link to or a little bit of documentation about. This topic in relation to deploying an okay D cluster. Or is this just the fair warning fair warning? Well, you need to know all about these things. I see most of our like one of the things that. Like, these are not choices that have a right answer in my mind. It's more a matter of taste and preference. And pretty much each of our demos makes choices along these lines. And so part of the documentation could be pulled out as, you know, like before you get into it. You know, 20 page Charo demo. What are you setting yourself up for? Yeah. So that you don't sort of get 15 pages through and decide that. Oh, that's incompatible with my setup. Yeah. I think this is, I really like this because it's wanted. It's, it's good for someone like myself that doesn't do this on a regular basis to realize, like you said, what I'm getting myself into. But it's also a good way to the I'm trying to figure out how we're going to surface this in. I guess I'm what I'm struggling is how is this a blog post or is this a section in the guide guidance and templates that we can use. And just keep fleshing out like what you've got templates in the guidance for deployment, but this is almost like. This might be something that comes off of the read me file or a higher level grouping there and I'm not sure how it's hugely useful. So that's not what I'm not saying that it's not. I'm just trying to figure out where we put it in terms of the documentation. My suggestion would be that we do actually turn this into a blog post because it gives us more sort of visual sort of ability to manipulate it visually and to link out to other things and more sort of web pagey fashion as opposed to the GitHub mark down language. I like the idea of actually linking out to some resources on these because it's not like anyone's forced to click on links to buying or anything like that or a tutorial on bind or whatever. So in other words, you know, following the basic premise of hyperlinking, if someone wants to click on it and go dig further they can if they already know how to use bind then they just know that they need it. Right. And so I would be inclined to link these things out. Just whatever ones that we can if we can't find a link out somewhere in the world that's a good explanation of how to do that thing, then you just don't provide a link to it. You know, we're a link from it I should say from that particular item. Well, all these items have hundreds of potential links right, because they have, you know, like official documentation, which is often hundreds of pages of stuff that you can only read if you already know what you're doing. And then tutorials which cover some trivial case. It's not really enough to get you started. And it seems that in a lot of cases, 90% of it is on one extreme or the other. So, if you don't want to read the the actual real documentation, then you're sort of going from searching to searching for the particular issue that you're having. Which I mainly thinking of h a proxy on that one because I never did get it to do the ready Z the ready Z if you will checks. Whenever I set it up to try and do that then it just claimed that they were all dead. So, I guess the question would be what, you know, do we think that it's valuable to link out to something or do we think there's too much out there. I mean, I can. I think that yeah, I'm agreeing with you. I'm just, I guess. You could turn this really quickly into a blog, a markdown blog on okd.io using Joseph's methodology for posting it there and and basically call it the, you know, the this, you know, the decision tree for deploying this and then put a little paragraph at the beginning and if it lives in markdown, then people can as it live on for a while as a blog post I hate blogging documentation by blogging that's like everybody hears this every time I'm on a call. We could do that for now to start it there and then collectively point people to it to say okay so and I'm just going to grab one is level to load balancing with F five. I'm going to put it to the generic thing and F five don't maybe not go to F five dot com but to the place in the documentation that references that but there I like there is no F five plus okd piece of documentation that I know of unless there's something in docs dot okd.io already. It's something that we delegate to people or or offer up as something that can be done so because I did the F five I'm going to add the F five stuff, right, you know, I can write an F five document but some things won't, we won't get a volunteer for every single thing. Right. So I think if we that was at James. Yeah. So I think the thing that I'm trying to figure out the next steps with this is, it's great and I noticed that I'm not sure who developer is I can see your face so high. And I think it's my Turk is here as well so it just we're just sort of running through where this should live and I think while it's under development, like while we're figuring out, you know, this decision tree because other people will want to add more things to it. And we could put a note at the bottom of it if you want to make. In addition to it go to okd.io and make a pull request against this specific blog file and we can merge it and we can I can manage the blog process of people updating it on a reoccurring basis and then we get to a point where it feels like it's something that should live on beyond the blog. Maybe it gets turned into a chapter in the guidance books. Sometimes it's moved over there or it could go into the guidance right away. That's the other thing but I think the blog might be a better way to socialize this to start with and get more feedback on it. And if all basically we would need Bruce is an opening paragraph about what the goal is here, you know, and maybe 250 words max, and then a footer saying with a link to how to, if you have comments or additions or links for any of this content, feel free to make a pull request against the blog. I mean, Diane I kind of agree with your notion like I don't like putting this up like as a blog entry by itself as documentation. I think like I want to go back to something Bruce was saying because I really got a lot of value out of like he was when he was setting up this list and saying like this is kind of like a primer on the things you need to be prepared for as you're getting into your OKD installation. And I could see it living, you know, either with the guides or in some OKD type like long live documentation where it says like, this is kind of like a read me first, you know, like, and what I would love to see is, you know, yeah, links to specific technologies is cool, but like under each one of the main headings, you know, like DNS for example, just a brief description of like what you know why you need to know a little bit about DNS and then you know links to the rich documentation that say like, here's how you set up your DNS or whatever. Like, I would love to see that as like a primer for the guides right the first thing you should do is read this document and just read the bullet points about like what you need to what you need to be prepared for right now to tie that to the blog. I think what would be awesome to write a blog post then is to say, Hey, look, we've come up with this cool way to think about how you should start planning your OKD deployment. You know, go check out this content or whatever like we could still blog about it without necessarily like setting it in stone as like documentation and blogging. Like references as a separate document, as opposed to the blog. Right, right. Just like this is like, to me, again, I go back to what you said, Bruce, like I love the notion that like this is a document that someone who has whatever level of skill they have with these various technologies. They've got this idea in their head they want to install OKD and they're not sure at all like what it takes to do that. And so they could like, you know, this is a document where they could just read through quickly and say like yeah I need to understand this much about DNS. I need to at least have an idea about, you know what I'm going to do to provision nodes and everything. And then next to it, you have all these guides that show you like here's the actual hardware you'd need to do this. So it's like kind of a getting yourself mentally ready, you know, to make the checklist to do the installs and everything. So that's kind of how it occurs to me. That's what I would love to see. Perfect. Okay, that's reasonable. Bear in mind that I've been trying to teach students in a lot of these areas as well. So it's amazing what confusion a student will fall into, even if you give them something relatively simple like Okay, here's set up a basic DNS and here's some starter configuration files that you have to go through and understand all the links that refer to each other and so on and so on. It's not non trivial to them. So I'm just going to step back. So our. Shall we try it as a blog post to start with. And have group think, add these little paragraphs or Bruce, do you have enough time and on your hands to like put for each of the higher level ones like a briefs one line sentence about why this is important to okay D or what step this is in the process or what it is when you say. Yeah, well, my, my time. I'm sort of stirring finals in the face in two weeks. We're doing virtual things and because of a variety of things I need to make up new problems for everybody. So what I would then what I would say is, yeah, good. If you can just put in like 200 words at the beginning of this about what you're what what it is. I can take this just file and turn it into a blog post on okay to share with the group next week. You know, it's sort of, I'm jokingly saying what to expect when you're expecting kind of thing. And then in next week's working group meeting, I can tell people and I'll put a footer on it on how to update. You know, it'll be a self healing blog post. And then maybe what we can do it and then and then grow this into something that should be, you know, the primer and that I think that'll help that I don't want to put the burden on you, Bruce, but I think we can collectively do a lot of this. Sure. Okay. So, so you want, you don't want me to convert to mark down or anything, but just put a bit of a header. Yeah, put a bit of just don't don't if you're in the middle of finals week. Forget about it. You're lost now. And for us for a little while. So I'm totally cognizant of that, but this is great. And I think then if you come to next week's okay working group. We'll give you a little bit of time on there to talk about it. And, and then we can just spark some interest in people, maybe adding to it, or, and then maybe adding links to if there is known documentation about doing at five with okay. Then link link that in kind of thing or something. But I think it's a good step and it shows some progress. So I'm happy to do that. A little bit of bark down for you. Yeah, so as a just, I just went with plain old text file as the easiest thing. So I'm not in a situation where it's easy to add a URL. So don't worry to show it. So, yeah, don't worry just in the top of the just add a paragraph or two about what this is and how we've been talking about it as the basis for a primer. You have other topics, please add them in. Yeah, but I like my suggestion. And that also takes, I guess, some thinking about what is the, the essence that people have to get on each of these topics. Yeah. That's a very good word to use in the description, the essence, not the entire thing. And, but just the essence. I almost want to see about my figure out how with markdown how to set it up as a checklist so that someone might print it and go. This I'm going to do this therefore that I mean it's big if then else statement too because I think some of these fear off of each other based on what your choices are to. So, I'm not sure who the developer person is. So I'd love them to comment or say hi or whatever and. And anybody else who has any other comments if we've missed anything on this list or if there's other alternatives to some of these things that you're using please speak up. If not, I'm, and if there's not another documentation effort going on, I might end this meeting a little early and give people back a half an hour. Anybody object to that. Better work cut out for us. I think so that gives you a half an hour back Jamie to look at those guys. So, yeah, and so Bruce, thank you for this. This is actually really, really helpful. And what I'll, I'll try and do is if you put that paragraph in and then ping me and slack or someplace when you've done that. I'll grab it and turn it into a Joseph blog that'll make Joseph happy. And then, yeah, and I've also, I've got to reach out to Joseph anyways as well because he's going to give a talk at the coupon EU. Gathering on his journey from OKD to Azure and beyond, whatever. And so he's going to be our rep for the coupon gathering, which is May 4. Okay, hit him up for recording date. And he'll love that. All right. Well, thank you guys. Everybody for joining and I will post this video up by the end of today. It's my new goal now that I know I can save them. Take care. Take care. Thanks. Later everybody. Bye bye.