 Yay. Thanks a lot, Mark. Good afternoon. My name is Susie Murray and I want to welcome everybody to the Zoning Administrator meeting of April 26, 2023. I am in addition to the Zoning Administrator, I'm also a senior planner for the City of Santa Rosa and I have been appointed by the director. With that, I want to say thank you very much for coming down in person for those of you who are here. And if there's anybody outside coming in on Zoom, thank you also for participating. From someone who's an old school gal, I love the in-person meeting because I think it's much easier to communicate when you can see each other without looking at people on the computer. So with that, I'd like to call the meeting to order. And that's 502. The Zoning Administrator business item two on the agenda is the statement of purpose. The Zoning Administrator is appointed by the director of planning and economic development and has the responsibility and authority to conduct public meetings and hearings and to act on applications for minor or reduced review authority projects or entitlements, basically land use permits. A determination or decision by the Zoning Administrator may be appealed to the appropriate appeal bodies including the design review board, cultural heritage board, planning commission or city council as applicable to this decision. So that takes us to item, you know what, I think that there is, I have a question for my admin staff. I think we normally do a public comment period before scheduled items, but it's not on the agenda. Should I add it to the agenda or I think I'm going to add it to the agenda because it should be there. So, okay, good. So I'm going to, I'm going to insert into Zoning Administrator business of moment for public comments and these are at this the time when anybody attending the meeting can make public comments that are not related to any item that's on the agenda, which tonight it's the special special meeting for the Meadowwood Ranch. So if you have something to ask, please raise your hand. I'm going to defer to mark to explain. If you wish to make a comment, please raise your hand. If you're dialing in via phone, please dial star nine to raise your hand, and you will have three minutes. There is no public comment for this item. Thank you very much. Okay, so now moving on to item 3.1. This is our public hearing. And it's for Meadow, the Meadowwood Ranch subdivision, which is an exempt project. The property is located, it's two properties, 2853 and 2875 Denton Meadow. The city file number is PRJ 21-021, and I also would like to disclose that I was involved in this project at the beginning of the entitlement process. I actually took it to the design review board for concept design review. As I said earlier, I'm a senior planner. I'm familiar with a lot of projects that come through the city, and I am going to hand it off now to Sheila Walski to go ahead and give us the presentation. Thank you, Senator Administrator Murray. Let me get this set up a little bit. Right now we should be in full screen mode. Okay, great. Good afternoon to members of the public and people who are in the audience. My name is Sheila Walski, city planner with the City of Santa Rosa, and the item before you today is the minor design review application for the Meadowwood Ranch subdivision project. The project is a market rate rental community, which the applicant describes as an opportunity for residents who are priced out of home ownership and are looking for a rental home with no neighbors above or below and private open space. The purpose of today's meeting is for the zoning administrator to consider the design review aspect of the application as it applies to the 82 single family attached to plexes. Only two months ago, the Planning Commission approved a conditional use permit for a small lot subdivision, and tentative map to subdivide the project's 11.21 acres into 89 lots. Proposed construction on the 89 lots would include seven single family detached homes, 82 single family attached to plexes and 48 accessory dwelling units. This would be a total of 137 units. Many of these would include a swimming pool, community building, outdoor gathering areas, pet park, and Bogy Court. This slide depicts an area of the project's location, which is highlighted in blue. The project is located in the city's southwest quadrant. The project site is located in the Roseland area, Sebastopol Road Priority Development Area, which identifies an approved area for future growth and development. The site's general plan land use designation is low density residential and low density residential open space. The site is owned R16, which allows for single family and single family attached housing. This slide provides you with a little bit of background on this project. The project was previously approved over 15 years ago as a 78 lots subdivision. Due to the recession, the approved projects entitlements expired. In 2021, the applicant submitted a new application with 11 additional lots in the inclusion of accessory dwelling units. This has been reviewed as an entirely new project under current regulations and codes. On February 23, 2023, the Planning Commission approved a conditional use permit for small lot subdivision and tentative map for this 89 lots subdivision. The R16 zoning designation requires minimum lot sizes of 6,000 square feet. However, the zoning code allows for residential small lot subdivisions with Plan Commission approval that range in size from 2,000 to 6,000 square feet. This project was recently approved for a small lot subdivision with lots ranging in size from 2,352 to 5,183 square feet. Through the use permit process, the project received minor reductions in standards for front setbacks and private open space requirements. This slide shows the approved tentative map and lot layout for the project. You can see that this project will provide for the extension of Burgess Drive, which has been long anticipated in both the city's general plan and the Reslin area, and the area's Sebastopol Road specific plan roadway network. This extension will provide another means to access LCL in high school. There will also be improvements to Dutton Meadow to include a sidewalk and bus turnout where there were no improvements before. The north-south streets, Luke Lane and Crosswinds Way will connect to the new subdivision to the south. This project was reviewed by the Design Review Board on May 6, 2021 as a concept design review item. This slide provides an overview of the Design Review Board's non-binding comments. There was support for the following. The variety of housing types, the amount of trees provided, the human scale of the design, the recreation center as a community amenity, addition of the accessory dwelling units, the circulation pattern that promotes easy ingress and egress, the window pattering, and that the project fulfills a housing need in the rental market. There was a request for consideration of the following, breaking up some of the monolithic features that were presented in the concept designs, breaking up the plane of the accessory dwelling units rear wall, adding more interesting trees such as oaks, providing unprogrammed open turf area instead of a bachi court, and providing more amenities to children. While the DRB's comments are non-binding, the applicant team made several adjustments in response to the review. For instance, a consensus comment during that meeting was a request to lessen the effect of certain monolithic forms that were presented to the board. The applicant team responded by making roofline changes, reversing the pitch of roofs, and relocating some of the units with more vertical features to mid-block instead of the end of the block. I've highlighted these changes on this slide. Another request was to break up the plane or enhance the facade of the rear wall of the accessory dwelling units, which would be located above the three car garages. The applicant considered the addition of clear story windows, however, that would have required raising the roofline. In response, the applicant has extended the siding and alternating mix of horizontal and vertical lap siding to all four sides of the ADUs to enhance the appearance while still providing privacy. A request was also made to consider adding native trees to the landscape plan. In response, the applicant has replaced European hackberry and glory maples with native oak tree species. During concept design review, a comment was made to consider unprogrammed turf area instead of the proposed bocce court on the west side of the project near Rain Dance Way. The applicant team considered this and believes the proposed bocce court is the appropriate low impact use for this area, given its proximity to residence front porches, which are seen here. Another comment was to consider providing more children's amenities. The applicant team believes the private yard space is provided to all the two and three bed units, as well as the recreation center, swimming pool, and outdoor gathering areas will provide sufficient activities for all members of the community, including children. The project site is also connected by a multi-use trail to the 20-acre southwest community park at a distance of 300 yards. Where there is a large grass area, picnic areas, children's play structures, restrooms, soccer field, basketball courts, and baseball and softball diamonds. This slide demonstrates how the project fulfills the goals and policies of the Rosalind's basketball road specific plan and general plan. There are other goals and policies of these plans, which the project fulfills. However, I've highlighted some of the major ones here to include the provision of diverse housing and providing new roadways that better connect neighborhoods. This slide provides information on how the project meets the development standards or has been approved for deviation from those by the Planning Commission. It's notable that the project will provide 354 parking spaces, which is in excess of what is required by the zoning code. The slide shows the site plan overlaid on an aerial view of the site. You can see how this project will provide roadway connections to the neighborhoods to the southeast and west. Here's a landscape plan for the site. The project has been conditioned to be compliant with the city's water efficient landscape ordinance, as well as the stormwater low impact development design. Since being reviewed by the design review board, the landscape plan has undergone some minor site plan changes to accommodate storm drain design and utility easements. As mentioned before, the design review board weighed in on some of the plantings and based on these comments, the applicant is providing native oaks to replace previously proposed hackberry and maple trees. This slide shows the streetscape elevation at the top so you can see how the homes will look from this perspective. The other images are renderings of various designs of the homes. The proposed elevations meet design guidelines in that the duplexes have been designed to resemble a single family home with individual front doors and defined entries. The accessory dwelling units above the garages also provide defined entries and private balconies. And then there's a little image at the bottom that is a rendering of the recreation building. This slide shows a more zoomed in view of the amenities and materials the project would provide. Up top right you can see the recreation center which will provide flexible space for activities such as exercise classes or movie nights. Outside of the recreation center are outdoor lounge areas and of course the swimming pool. Top left is the pep park which is proposed to have a stucco wall on the west side separating it from Applejack Way. And then metal fencing on the interior sides of the pep park. On the bottom middle is the rendering of the bachi court which would be located on the northwest side of the project set back from Rain Dance Way. Fencing along the multi-use path of Rain Dance Way will be this white split rail farm type fence depicted in the picture below the block. Pep park fencing. And at the bottom right is an example of the lighting fixtures that are proposed for the site all downward cast to prevent glare. This slide provides a breakdown of the colors and materials of the homes. As you can see there's a complementary mix of color palettes and the homes will be differentiated by not only different forms but various materials to include corrugated metal roofing and composition roofing. And sighting that is either horizontal or vertical lap sighting. Board and batten as well as stucco. A previous slide noted the ways in which the project fulfills goals and policies of the specific plan and general plan. This slide highlights some of the design guidelines that are met by the project. These are all listed on this slide. Particular design guidelines that I'd like to feature are design guideline 1.1 b.9. That speaks to detached single family, attached units, single level at 1000 square feet and two-story 1500 square feet ADUs above the garages. In this project the alleys serve to de-emphasize flat garage walls and accessory dwelling units above rear loaded garages are incorporated in the project. This not only provides parking for residents but also serves to provide much needed smaller scale housing that doesn't increase the building footprint. The consensus comment from the planning commission was that this layout and design is innovative. 3.2.E.5 is a part of the design guidelines security through design section and serves a few purposes. It provides ownership of space, allows residents to engage in casual conversation and get to know their neighbors and provides eyes on the street. And throughout the meetings, neighborhood meetings, planning commission meetings, there have been some public comments from neighbors. Those include parking, additional traffic, water and sewer capacity, an increase in the unit since the project was approved in 2007. Consideration of fire evacuations, infrastructure, roadway improvements planned for this area and loss of what is considered to be open space since this parcel is vacant. Parking has been a concern in general given the amount of development in the area. And as previously mentioned and relayed to the concerned party, this project will provide 354 parking spaces, which is 120 more spaces than what is required by the city's zoning code. Additionally, there will be on-site management to ensure the garages are used for parking vehicles. Traffic, the project is statutorily exempt from CQA, so a traffic study is not required. However, the applicants provided a traffic impact study that analyzed the impact of the additional units on the area. It found intersections into the city would continue to operate at acceptable levels with the addition of expected traffic from the project. And for those of you who may have attended the planning commission meeting, we had a large discussion about this with the traffic engineer who mentioned that there are identified capacity issues in this area. And some of the projects that are in the pipeline to reduce those or mitigate for those issues, which are the Harn overpass interchange and also the Dutton Meadow and North Point Parkway as well. But Dutton Meadow will actually be reconfigured. So those are some of the larger ones, but in the context of this particular project, it is not exacerbating those. In terms of sewer and water capacity, city staff has reviewed the proposed development and determined that there is adequate water and sewer capacity to serve the project. The site will be developed in compliance with the city's standard urban stormwater mitigation plan. And since the project meets the plan density for the site, the sewer capacity study is not required. And anticipated water use has been projected and accounted for in the city's urban water management plan. While it is true that there is an increase in the number of units since the project was approved in 2007. This current project is being reviewed as an entirely new project and is compliant with the city's allowed density for the site. There was a concern again about the fire evacuation scenarios and the two lane roads in this area that is valid concern. Anyone who's lived in Santa Rosa since October 2017 is aware of the panic and fear of these types of evacuations. In response, the city's traffic engineer provided updates on planned roadway improvements to Bellevue at the planning commission meeting and provided an update on larger infrastructure projects at Hurd Avenue, which I mentioned. This project site is not included in the city's wildland urban interface and is considered at reduced risk for wildfire scenarios. The loss of open space. This is an infill site that is not designated as parks is zone for housing, which this project will provide and the proposed density meets the city's density requirements. And in terms of the current design review application. Notices were mailed to residents within 600 feet of the site to onsite signs were posted and a notice was published in the press Democrat. In response to this hearing in response to the design review portion, I have received one phone call. The neighbor mentioned they may show up tonight. I don't see them here. They may be on zoom though. And that person just had general questions about projects in the area since they had just purchased a home nearby. The environmental review piece of the project, the Meadowood Ranch subdivision has been reviewed and compliance with sequel and qualifies for a stack of statutory exemption pursuant to sequel guidelines section 15182. 15183 and government code section 65457. In that it implements and is consistent with the Roslyn area, Sebastopol Road specific plan. The specific plan has been certified by the city council. No events subsequent to certification have required to supplemental EIR. It's consistent with the general plan and zoning code. Project review has revealed no significant environmental impacts not addressed in the EIR. It will not result in significant impacts for traffic noise, air quality or water quality. And it can be served by all utilities and services. To conclude the planning and economic development department recommends that the zoning administrator by resolution grant design review approval for the Meadowood Ranch subdivision. An 89 law 137 residential development posted 2853 and 2875. And that concludes my presentation. My contact information is on the slide for anyone calling in. That's Sheila Walske 707-543-4705 or sWalski at SRCity.org. Thank you. Okay, I think I'm going to go ahead and open up the public hearing. So, where'd my gal there? I'm opening the public hearing. If there's any public comments say, I'm sure there are. And there's a three minute timer, but I don't think we have a whole lot of people talking. So, if it runs a little over, I'm not going to lose any sleep, but let's keep it to a minimum. Who are we speaking as the developer here? My name is Anthony Westerger. I'm going to 2827.meadow. I have about five questions. At the last meeting, I had four questions on Zoom and two of the questions were not answered. So, I don't know if anybody writes the questions down. I have them for after if you don't answer them. My first question is about the sewer hookup. And my, my ask is, can we hook sewer, can sewer be coming from the south to the north? If you come south at Tuxorn to the north, or if you come from, I'm sorry, if you come from the north of Tuxorn south instead of from the south north, or if you're going to capture eight homes that are going to be blocked out of sewer for up to maybe 20 years, there's no more development. And I believe that's like an additional 250 feet. So, enough to city can require that or how we can get that sewer extended so that it goes past all those eight homes that are going to be locked out of sewer. We've been in the city limits for 15 years. We don't have any services. So, my ask is, can we come from the north south and then hook up sewer that way we go in front of all of our properties. If that can't happen, what is the cost for the developer to do that? Would the developer do it and charge each home? That's another question. But one other question is, what's the, what's the fencing going to look like on the north side of your property, which is the south side of our property? Will our fences be torn down and new fences built? What's that going to look like? Another question is, you say these are market rate and management on site. Is there a sunset to that? Are these going to become low or affordable housing someday or is management got a sunset? Management will be gone, nobody will be managing the project. Another question is, doesn't matter improvements? I'm assuming when you say doesn't matter improvements, it's only for right in front of the project, right? For nothing else I'm assuming. That's usually how it works. My last question is the tree on the north side of that property. There's a large tree on the north side of the property that's just south of my fence. It's been there for 50, 60, 70 years. The whitetail hawks nest there. They've been nesting there for 40 years and I've been on the property and they're back again. So is that tree going to be cut down while they're still nesting or are you going to allow the nesting to happen and then cut the tree down? So those are my about six questions I guess. Okay. And are there any more comments from the public in the room? You have three, yes, everybody has three minutes. So 50 years ago, we were part of the South Dutton Sewer District. The property tax, our tax was put on our property. A fee was put on the property tax to pay for sewer hookup when it came available. That was put into the South Park District. And it should have been paid for. We had paid for this in our property taxes. I was wondering if there's any way to find out about that. And is there any way for that to be a credit to us where we get X amount off or some kind of vivid in from that, you know, I mean, what am I trying to say? That it was already paid for that we've already paid to be connected to sewer in our property taxes from this whole time. Now, Sheila looked at the couldn't find anything. We might be close to the Burbank District, Burbank Avenue, and we're way far away from South Park. So I'm not exactly sure how that works. But is there a way to find out about that? And all my questions are what he talked to, can we get, can we come in from the back of the property, which would be like the Ashland Avenue? I'm in the middle. If we came through my property, we could tee off for Mr. Westergaard and our possible our front neighbors. I'm not sure if our front neighbor is, you know, but there's going to be a road right there. So if they're sewer coming down that road instead of coming from Dutton Meadow, which would be a longer way. Is that a possibility? So that's all I have. Thank you. And do we have any hands raised? I'm sorry. You're also entitled to three minutes or if you'd like to get up and say anything else, it doesn't matter if you share a household with anybody. Well, I did live on that street for many years. And then Gail, my niece bought the property from my mother. And so she owns the duplex in the middle. And then so I've been cutting out the newspaper ads and given to her. And he's my support group. But otherwise, then it looks like a nice project. And then so, so I wish them all the best. Thank you. Thank you. This Marcus or anybody. There is no comment. No hands raised. There is no hands ready. And you know, it occurred to me, I always miss something. I'm a new to the zoning administrator position here. And I didn't ask the applicant if they wanted to make any comments prior to public public comments. And so not addressing their comments. Did you want to add anything? I can make a whole speech about so I'm very passionate about attainable missing middle housing. I've been working on this project for over a year as an apartment developer, developed the Anadel project in Santa Rosa, which won the best apartment project in America year was developed. And rather than retire, I'm spending my energy trying to create housing for all the people that make community. And Susie's heard my speech and Sheila's heard my speech. And it's taken many years to assemble the product that is an innovative product. And when we first approached the city of Santa Rosa on this property, we didn't really have any preconceived notions. We just tried to meet a certain price range and create everyone wants to live in a neighborhood. So this is a neighborhood. And I'll answer some of your questions. One, it will be perpetually managed by a professional manager with on-site maintenance. It's part of the HOA. This is not a project that will be the design is to combine is to combine starter homes and apartment projects into a different kind of product. We're, you know, it's about the same price as an apartment, but it creates a sense of neighborhood and has a parking and a backyard and front yard, which is what most people wanna have. As to the fence design, wood fence, and, you know, we're open to paint colors. I think we take the city's direction at that. Is that, my question is, is our fence go away and you'll build a new fence? I think we'll put our... I'm gonna say some boundaries, yeah. Sorry. The public comment period is over and it's in this court. And I think I've got all last questions of him as well. So have faith, thank you. Typically the, to answer the fence goes on the property line and we work with the neighbors what the best way to do that is. So the, when we first, I hope that first of all, thank you to the zoning administrator Murray and very comprehensive overview planner Wolski. I think that for those that are listening, there's a lot of information in there, a lot of hard work. It is incredibly difficult to craft a project with all of the many public works conditions in a sophisticated environment that meets the price point that we've successfully created here. And I think we have 120 something conditions. It's, there's lots of moving pieces. So we're very pleased with the project that we've ended up with. I believe we responded to every comment from the preliminary planning commission two years ago. So it takes endurance in addition to puzzle solving. And it's the reason that we do not have sufficient housing missing middle housing attainable housing in America is the complexity of it. And most people just don't have the passion and endurance to make this happen. So I'm very pleased to be here. And we want to be the best neighbors possible. We plan to own this project in perpetuity. I still get calls on projects I've done up here too. So with that, I think that I don't have anything to add other than I'm pleased that we've been able to stack the virtues of this project on top of the requirements and end up with something that's economically viable. And we hope to be able to start construction as soon as we can get through the process if it's approved tonight. I have some questions. So first, thank you all for making your comments. I appreciate that because when you do, you raise awareness for us. So I have a question. I know that Dennis will be able to answer this. More likely. About the sewer. Was there an alternative explorer going north-south? No, it's really, that's the direction of the flow. The subdivision at Boron, where the clean out is, we were basically instructed to tie in there. Okay, by engineering. Yeah. So I want to respond to the sewer. I think that as far as the fees that you've paid for the South Park Sanitation District, it's not a burden of this project, but it is absolutely something we can help you research. If you contact Sheila, she can get some of our engineers involved and we can look into that. I don't know how that works. I know that we do utility certificates a lot, but we really depend on our engineering development services team to help us out with a lot of that. So I'm sure we can get you an answer. It's just not going to be tonight. The fence, the fence on the property line, is it proposed, do we have a proposed design on it? Should be in the landscape plan. Yeah, it's in the landscape plan. I saw it. Is it, I mean, you can describe, is it a six foot? Six foot wooden, good neighbor fence. Good neighbor fence, okay. So the good neighbor fence, is it solid on both sides or is it interchanging panels? I believe it's alternating panels. This is the current design. You can check, I'll find it. Right up against our property line. It would be on the property line. Typically they go on the property line. Then there's a road, then your project, sidewalk, so. Well, there'll be a gap. There will be a, I'm guessing. Can we bring out the, can you put it up on this? Yeah, let me see. Actually, you don't have it in here. Sorry. I don't think it's right. You've got a two rail farm fence, and then you've got the pet park fencing. Drew? Oh, it's stuck on the wall. Sorry. Thanks. So there's Stutton Meadow here on the right. Here's Ashland, and you are up top here at Constance Way. Yeah, right there. Yeah. So my question, and again, Dennis, you're gonna know this. Is there, there's a planter strip, it looks like, there on the south side of the fence, right? Yeah, well, where Ashland Way is, so we're doing like a three quarter street for Ashland. Because of the development potential behind it. Okay. So there's probably a five to six foot strip between the face of curb and where the fence would be. And how wide is that street? Ashland, it's, I believe it's 28 feet. So is it parking on both sides? No, parking on one side. Okay, and is that the north side or the south side? South side. Perfect. So yes, you'll have a street there. You'll have a street there, but you'll have, you said yes to a small planter strip. Yes. Yeah, a planter strip, so it'll go fence, planter strip, street, then parking, then residential uses. So you won't have, you won't have those cars parking right up against that fence, which is, I can definitely understand your concern there. So, and we won't lose any parking spaces. Yay. So, all right, so we've got the six foot, good neighbor fence. Can you hear me? Oh, yes. Hi, sorry, this is Peter Johnson. I'm with the developers. Ah, Peter. If I could add a couple of things to what Dan responded to, Mr. Westergaard. Of course you can. Dan mentioned that we work with our neighbors and we'll look for the best solution. And it looks like a couple of the properties that exist on that north boundary have relatively new good looking fences. And there's probably not a good reason to replace those, but if any of the neighbors along there have older fencing and would rather have those fences replaced, we'd happily work with those neighbors to accommodate that. Also like to just add a couple of things to the sewer question. We now understand that there's a desire for the residents on the street to be connected to city sewer. As Dennis mentioned, our sewer point of connection is towards the south of the property, so we would not have any plans to run sewer up the city street that is not a requirement or any benefit for our project. And we do not have sewer currently in Ashland Way, which is the street that's adjacent to the north property boundary. We do have a mad hall that's close to that north property boundary at the end of Crosswinds Way. And I certainly can commit that if the neighbors along that street come up with a plan that requires an easement to connect into that mad hall, we certainly cooperate with working on them for that easement as long as it complies with city standards and regulations. So I just wanted to add that that we're, we wanna be good neighbors. And if we have sewer that's in range that makes sense for you guys to get together and come up with a proposal that ties into it, we'll gladly accommodate whatever easements might need to be done there. And I think that was the real questions as far as the sewer, the fencing, the sunsetting question on the apartment management. I think Dan answered that, but just to confirm that is there's no sunset, there's no potential of this going away and turning into a ghetto. This is gonna be a professionally managed rental community for in perpetuity. And to answer your question on the Dutton Meadow frontage, again, we are required to improve just the frontage. And by the way, we're improving our frontage along Dutton Meadow for the entire East property boundary. We're also improving the frontage on rain dance on the entire about 50% of the West property boundary. And we're building Burgess Drive through the property. And we believe that's a pretty major contribution to the city street networks and we would not plan to do any more than that. And yes, you're right, the tree will be taken down. And if it's a sensitive or listed species, then we'll comply with any regulatory requirements that we need to before we remove that tree. So I just wanted to make sure that it sounded like Anthony, Mr. Westergaard, you didn't feel your questions were all answered at the last meeting, but wanted to make sure that we addressed all of them here. So thank you for your thoughts and comments. Thank you. Thank you, Peter. I'm sorry, you're not here in person, but I'm sure. Me too. You're in a better spot. I have a question too. The city has an inclusionary housing requirement and that that is being met on site. So inclusionary housing is affordable housing. All of our commercial and residential projects are required to contribute to affordable housing and a very, it's not unheard of, but we just had another one approved last Thursday up at the design review board where inclusionary housing was, the requirement was met on site. So it's real nice to have that integrated. So we have people who can't afford, these are deed restricted for people with lower incomes, which is very nice. And I want to compliment this team for that. So Susie correction to that, you can respond. We, so let me respond. We have the option of either on site or paying the fee. And I, we honestly won't know which path is gonna happen until we get to the construction financing stage. And the world is kind of upside down right now for financing. So we need to have that optionality, but we certainly have been trying to figure out how to do that. And I'll tell you, I'm digging back into the depths and I should have deferred to you in the first place because initially when I was involved a long, long time ago. And that's correct. So I apologize. There was a condition in there. Okay, no, I know, and I know they need to, to comply. So well, one way or another, they're gonna comply. Yes. My bad. I wanted to, okay. First, I wanna say a couple of things. First, I super appreciate the alley loaded units. They make for such a, so much nicer streetscapes. I couldn't figure out why a neighborhood near my house, why I always thought it was so cute. And I was walking with an architect friend of mine one time. He said, it's cause there's no garages. It's true. They really look nice. I have a garage on the front of my house. And I think it's cute, but I thought this neighborhood was extra special. So I'm also going to say that I'm real glad that the Bachi ball board is staying. I thought that was a real good use for that spot. I know that not every member of my design review board agreed with me, but yeah. I also want to acknowledge the street improvements that are being included in this project. Not, they are no small contribution to our street network over in that area. And I think that the neighbors, once those streets are installed, we'll feel some relief on Dutton Meadow, which will be a small relief until the city is able to implement our plans, which I know are quite significant. So I don't have a lot more questions, but I am also not an architect. So I also take advantage of our design review board, specifically our vice chair, Wigel, who is an architect. And I would very much like to hear your comments, Drew, if you would oblige. Sure, thanks, Suzanne. Sorry for kind of mumbling to Dennis over here earlier. I was looking at the landscape plans, and they did in fact not include the design of the good neighbor fence. So that could be a condition that you may want to add to the thing, just to make them do it, which is not a big deal. They do have some other nice fencing included in the package, which is nice. There's some nice kind of a metal fencing around the pet park and some other places like that. We see a lot of that type of fencing around those types of facilities. And then there's some nice kind of rural, kind of white post fencing around some other different areas, which is very nice, which I think will fit the area. That area south of center is a lot of open spaces over there. And so fencing of that nature is really nice because it creates a sense of boundary and privacy in neighborhood, but it also has tons of transparency. So it's a really nice way to kind of differentiate between different developments. So fencing aside. So when we initially reviewed this, I think back in 2021, 2020, I know board member Wicks, who's no longer on the board now, also an architect. I think he was the one that was all tied up on the Bachi court. I'm kind of indifferent about it personally, but I think something that he made a comment that I think is still relevant. And while I agree that the Southwest Park is in reasonable close location, I think a lot of families are looking for on-site amenities in their developments. And so the absence of some youth, multi-generational amenities, I guess I would say, I think was what had him concerned. That's not to say that what is included isn't fantastic because it is. I mean, pool, great, turf area, that's flexible for parties and other things, great. Bachi court, ah, take it or leave it, right? But I think that's what Henry was kind of talking about. So I think it's partially addressed in that regard, but me personally, I think what they've created a lot of amenities that not other projects have done, which is very nice. They could have chosen to just say, hey, we're gonna put more units here and no amenities. And I think they made a very good decision to create some amenities for the number of units that they're putting in, so that's great. I really like the revisions to the ADU. I think they now stand on their own as kind of unique architectural elements. And I think we had made some comments about the absence of windows on the, I guess the interior side, because most of the ADUs actually face the alley from a window perspective, because that's how you enter that, or well, that's how they're laid out, I guess, is what I would call it. The balconies are on the alleys with the garages underneath, which is actually really nice because it creates kind of a secondary layer of street, which is really unique. And so not only do you have your primary streets being activated by kind of eyes on the street by the main duplexes, but then you have this kind of secondary layer of eyes on the street with your alleys, which is really cool. So it translates this kind of security across the entire project. This is really something that you don't see a lot in terms of projects that do have alleys. You're 100% right. Projects that do have alleys tend to be only for like vehicular access or serving for trash and recycling and compost and that kind of thing. And it's just a service component, but it does make the approach of the home very nice. But I think what's cool here is it's being activated by a pedestrian on both sides, which is kind of unique and very, it'll make the project feel interconnected in a way that I think a lot of other alley projects don't. So I appreciate that. Really the only thing that I'm scratching my head about on the architecture is there's this modern cottage version, which has a lot of stucco around it. And it's got kind of this, I'll call it a false chimney in a weird way, but it's a wall that goes past the shed roof of the second floor of that side of the duplex. And it's got just a very monolithic feel to it above the shed roof. So sheet A 1.3 in the plan set is a great example of this. And I feel like given the layout in that space, I mean, there may be a fire code reason that there can't be anything there. Typically, when you have a duplex, you have to have a firewall in between the two. And that typically extends to the roof line. So that may be what's prohibiting some, any type of window openings. However, in the absence of that, I think it'd be kind of interesting to introduce a Clara story in the bathroom or in the bedrooms above the beds on that side. And in the 3D rendering, that's on, I saw it, there was a rendering in the package. A 4.3, it appears that the end unit in that rendering actually has the second floor floor plan flipped. So it's got the window openings that would normally be on the low side of the shed, on the high side, which is the low wall or right there. So that particular instance of that happening, I might be a mistake on the renderer, but it just seems weird to me that then you would create a false, the blank wall on that other side. But I understand why you would wanna flip and flop the layouts, because then it creates diversity amongst all the units. So diversity creates kind of ownership, personality to each individual unit. And so I appreciate that a lot because a lot of these developments that I've seen in small subdivisions, they have like five plans, but then they just build that five plans, right? They don't do anything to the plan. They don't modify the colors, they don't modify flipping, mirroring, things like that to create individuality. And so I think that's kind of nice that it's starting to do that, but it's just a little funky, I guess that's what I would call it. But one sec, we're having some technical issues. I'm wondering, is it okay if I, can I use my computer to bring up the plans for having a problem with this one? Yes, you should. Okay, I just wanna make sure that was okay. And Sheila, I'll probably need your help doing that. Sorry, let me pull these up, Drew, so you can, so people know what we're talking. And then finally, my last comment was, I really appreciate the color palette. I think it's actually expanded upon since we saw this last, which is great. I think it speaks to the diversity that I was kind of just talking about in terms of ownership of each individual unit, even if they are just rented. My only concern is, it's funny, a lot of projects that we approved, I don't know, I would say four or five years ago have now been built, and they have some of these bolder colors on them. And I'm not sure if it was either bad paint application, maintenance, or what, but they're starting to chalk and they're starting to fade pretty considerably, and they're just not as bold and inviting. So I would just caution, I guess, some of the bolder colors, but it looks like most of them are on the entry doors, which are probably okay, because they're underneath cover. But like I said, some of those bolder colors, it seems on big swaths around town that have been done in the last couple of years, are starting to fade and they just don't look as- Is it similar to the one that's up on the screen? No, no, actually, interestingly, that looks like the Bato Brown to me. Okay, so you both- I would not be concerned about that, yeah. So pastels tend to be really good to UV because they don't fade, but they won't fade kind of un-uniformly, whereas the bolder colors will, depending on how the shade and the sun is hitting it, will start to like have this kind of dual tone action happening where the pastels kind of fade uniformly, which is kind of nice. I was just pointing out that all the rows of the colors on A5.1 that are just for the doors might be a problem long term, but I think since there are doors, they're under an entry cover porch and likely not an issue. And probably made of a more durable material than painting fiber cement siding or stucco or something. Yeah, that's all I'm saying, those bright colors. And then if you wanted to go back a page, Susie. I'm sorry, Drew, but I'm trying to get back up to A1.3 and- Yeah, go up a little bit though. A1.3, okay, so- That, yeah. A top. A top piece. Okay, and that's, you're recommending that we introduce clear story window on the top of the- Only if feasible in the building code, right? Cause I don't do enough multifamily housing to think about, to know this off the top of my head, but I do know when you have a duplex, you have to have a firewall. And that may, windows may not be an option due to the fire separation between the units. And that's likely what's happening there. If it's in compliance with the building code- Then I wouldn't add windows. But if you have the option to add windows, great. Let's see if it works. Okay. And so there's, in that second floor, there's two bedrooms and a bathroom. So I would encourage three clear story windows of equal size in each of those. In the, I'm sorry, I missed that one. There's two bedrooms and a bathroom on the second floor. Okay. I think the challenge in that particular situation is that there's a property line that separates the two halves of that. That's it. Yep. Okay. There you go. You have my question. Nevermind. Forget I said anything. Yeah, I'm serious. If I can't- Yeah. Cause if it's a property line, there's a fire code. Yeah. This is Sean with Jeffery Damir and Associates. We're the architects on the project. Peter's absolutely correct. And I think what you're seeing on the rendering is exactly that. It's a mistake. I think at one point, and Peter, you can correct me. I think we had a half unit there and we flipped the windows. And I don't think it got reversed when it became a full duet again on revision, but that is a property line. And that's why there's no openings there. Perfect. All right. Well then, forget I said anything. Yeah, the property line is a big deal. Yeah. Yeah. That's it. Yeah. Oh, I'm talking about the end unit, I'm sick of it. I, that's just, yeah, there's an error in the rendering. He was saying that's an error. It seems like a vestige of a, trying to figure it out. So that actually, that unit on the far right, that's just a half unit. So that's why we were able to introduce windows there because it's standalone. It's, you're seeing the, we flipped the direction of the roof on that half unit. So that unit you're seeing is a single family unit. Not a duet. I'll explain. Thank you. And by the way, I also want to compliment the selection of windows. Can I make a comment on that? We've done lots of focus groups on what is valuable to, we were creating a science of pride of rentership, which is because homes are out of reach for so much of our population. What's the, what's the sense of pride for living in a quality rental home? And one of the highest rated attributes is light, natural light. Security's first, natural light is second, third is connectivity. And the reason we don't have parking in front is we want you to get to know your neighbors. And the units are designed with the alley loaded to create a real sense of neighborhood. So one of the amenities of this project is the connectivity between everybody being part of the shared community. And there's a science that goes into it and the design reflects that intention. Yeah, yeah. It's, this is, I mean, I will say this is a very, in my opinion, very nicely designed project. But I have some more things that I want to talk about. I want to ask you if, so I am not a big fan of a good neighbor fence. And I know we use it all the time. What I don't like is that it, my opinion of a good neighbor fence is that it looks the same on both sides, but the typical one is every other panel. And I'm wondering if I could impose on that North property line where it's solid down both sides. It acts as a sound buffer. It's going to be a little bit more solid separating the neighbors to the North from vehicle, doors closing and what have you a sound buffer. But it's also more attractive on both sides of the fence. And I'm wondering if that would be something that you guys would consider. I have a few others. I have a question, I have a question about the tree that is the tree that looks like it's right at the corner of the Southwest corner of your property, Anthony. Yeah. And it's right in the center of the top of the line. It looks like a road, it's stubbing out for a road there. Does that tree have to be removed? Have to see it. Well, I can be on an aerial. Or the tent, I got to be right where the road is. Or the tentative map. Yeah, it looks like that to me too. Oh, on the tentative map. Yeah. Can I just make a comment on that? I mean, because I deal with this in very, every city has a different philosophy. The new trees that we plant are of a quality that they're gonna be large enough to have an immediate impact. Most of the older trees that we, once we have an arborist involved, they're just not a very good health, depending on the species. So, but I don't think there's a way to save that tree. And we'll comply with all of the standards regarding how that any species that are in it. Yeah. Yeah, that's what it looks like to me. I'm not concerned with keeping it. I mean, as long as the birds are gone and you're not gonna get another one. There's federal regulations that protect those birds during nesting season. About a huge environmental issue. They're in there. I am. All the. So yeah, I'm gonna stop the chatter going back and forth. Sorry, you guys, I've been waiting for these guidelines somewhere. But if there were a way to save that tree, I would love to see it. I don't see that that can be done. So, and I'm sure it's been, if it hasn't been conditioned, again, it has been caught in the catch-all that it has to comply with federal requirements. So yeah, nothing through February 1st or between February 1st and August 31st. And that goes really for all of the trees on the site and even ground-disturbing activities for bats and ground-nesting trees. So yeah, if it's not included in the conditions, it is. Yay. That's always, that's a Susie condition. I have, I know that you have an abundance of parking. And I know that the plan is that you will include, you'll require people to park in their garages and not fill the garages with storage. I would like to add a condition into the CCNRs, actually, that requires that. If that, if that's, we'll add a condition of approval to add them in. And if that's, thank you. There was a condition of approval to provide a sign at both of the entrances for the construction site. I would want to kind of drill down a little bit more on that condition, beef it up. And just this one is easy to comply with. I want to have the contractors, either the general contractor or a designated representative contact information, including a phone number and an email along with a name, and that they can be reached, people can call or email 24-7. Doesn't mean that somebody has to pick up in the middle of the night, but it does mean that a response can be a secondary condition to that, that they will receive a response, not necessarily a fix, serially a fix, but a response within 24 hours, regardless of weekends and holidays. So I want neighbors of a project this size, I want them to feel heard when, and I want them to feel heard before they call us. I don't want the city of Santa Rosa's information put on that sign. I want the first call to go to the contractor as much as possible. Our information is, of course, available on our website, but I'd prefer, and I've spoken to several generals that have said, thank you for contacting us and not going right to code enforcement. Shouldn't say several, but construction around my own home. So that, is that an okay one? Thanks. And I don't know that because the trash cans will be pulled out on the backside, it wasn't going to be an issue for me, except now that we have those living units that have the porches that overlook the trash cans, I'm gonna request that the trash bins be stored in a concealed location and that they be pulled out for trash pickup the evening before trash pickup and pulled back in before, as soon as possible, but no later than the evening, the day of pickup. That sounds like something that should be in the CCNRs. Yes, it should be in the CCNRs. I'm sorry, and that's what I... We've already discussed that because all the landscaping front yards and backyards are taken care of by us, there's no need for the green bin for each of the houses. So that eliminates one of the bins at each house and then the maintenance man will roll everybody's garbage can, some people will do it on their own being nice, but that's one of the responsibilities of the on-site staff. What about composting for residents if you're eliminating the green bin? We're working on whether we can aggregate the composting into all three units going to one. We don't quite know exactly how that's gonna work, but we'll comply. Okay, so let's go ahead and add a condition that says that I want Sheila to see what your plan is before any plansets are approved. Okay, so we need to... You can punt right now, but that needs to be addressed. The people that are living there have to have the resource for composting. Okay. Okay. Susie, can I ask a question? Of course. Is that because we have a citywide composting ordinance as a requirement? Do we? I think we do. You know, I don't know... I know that we're working... There's been discussion and we may have it. I don't know. I think we might. We're gonna have a bad condition in either way. Peter's been working on this, so he may have some insight. Peter, are you there? Yeah, I was under the impression it's about to become state law. I sure hope it does. I can't imagine why it hasn't been already, but in the meantime, I'm not sure that we have an ordinance. I know we have an ordinance about single-use utensils at restaurants, but I don't know about the composting and multi-family. So I would like to make sure that composting... You know, we had another project that did a creative thing where the residents would put their composting out at a given times, and there was a pickup, you know, a golf cart that drove around and picked it up. And I'm fine with an innovative approach. I just want to make... And I'm fine not having three bins so long as there is a solution for the compost. Okay, let's see. I'm almost there. Is that okay? Yeah, I mean, the timing is awkward. It would be better if we could do it at occupancy because by then we will have management in place and we will have real solutions to put on the table rather than guessing at what might be the best result there. Can you do it before building permits are submitted? If we could, occupancy is the right time because the property manager, and there's also some innovations that are happening that aren't available. How about if we compromise and say issuance of building permits? That's quite... I mean, it's well into the project. And I think... We don't have management on board by then is the problem. Oh, okay. So this is it. This is a property management issue. So the problem with us is it's very hard for us to stop the issuance. We're not part of the building inspection team. So it's very difficult for us to stop it before, I'm sorry, before occupancy, before that final. So I would like to... I wanna work with you guys. I know you guys, but I don't know your management group and this needs to be resolved. So I can put it in as a condition of approval and... Maybe a primary plan, FPI will be the... And a suggestion for a hold and a saw. I'm guessing we probably can, yeah. So Sheila's suggesting that we put a hold on building permits or a no, we have those locks and holds that we put a lock on the building permit saying it cannot be final until a planning sign is off on a punch list or whatever. Which would be, which would be the composting and it would also be that northern property line fence. You wanna take a look, you wanna see a drawing. I wanna see a drawing. Probably wanna see it installed too. Of course we have eyes, we have eyes on that north property line. Are you guys okay with that property line fence that I'm designing by the way? I think that you represent two of those three. That was good to me. I mean, I do either one. It's a matter of facts. Neither one's final. Okay. So is the hold on planning's approval of occupancy? No, it's those, planning doesn't typically get involved in occupancy. That's a building division function. And it's difficult. That's why we usually condition for issuance on building permits or application. But I think that we may be able to find a solution and I'm comfortable with that because I know the planner involved and I know that she will be on this. It will likely happen when I'm not around it for hours. Otherwise I would be on it. I'm retiring. So that's it. So that I'm okay with that, Peter. But I really wanna see it done. Composting is absolutely necessary and I'm really hoping it does become state law. Soon. I think it did. It's SB 1383. Sign up. Thank you. All right. We'll look it up. And if that's the case, we'll just say comply with SB 1383. Yeah, our solution will be innovative. Good. I'm happy to hear that. It's not gonna be. I love it. Yeah. If you search the city's website, the compost, that's the first thing. Okay. I don't know what to talk about. I'm gonna break the rules. I'm gonna let you. It's possible to talk. Is it Peter? His name is Peter. Yeah. It's possible to talk to him like after because he says something about making a plan about. Yes. See me. I'll get you the contact. I do have a. He can get you his contact information. You can absolutely talk to the planner. You can talk to me. You can talk to Drew. You can talk to the applicant after the meeting for sure. All this talk, I have a property line question, but who would I talk to you later about that? Start with Sheila. Start with Sheila. And she'll get you, she'll either direct you or get you. It's part of a construction thing, I think. It's more of a what? A construction thing? Talk to us both, maybe. After, yeah. After the meeting. What's your concern? Well, these houses have been there since the 50s. I don't know how it works when you build a new subdivision to your existing properties, but like is the, where our fence is, is that considered the property line or could it be somewhere different? And that's gonna be, that's. Could be somewhere different. Generally assumed to be the property line, but we'll never know exactly until we get surveyors out there. Oh, so the fence could be, let's say, a foot one way or the other or whatever. Yeah, it should show on the tentative map. It could go into, so it could go into our property units or would it stay? Well, it wouldn't be your property. I mean, that's right. Yeah, but that's, and you can find that out. Dennis Dalby, you can get his contact information. He can actually, you know what, talk to Sheila. Just talk to Sheila. She'll be able to get you. And so I'm gonna, I'm actually gonna reel it in now and just have this dialogue. If we were on Zoom, everybody would be muted. That would be the one benefit of Zoom, but I agree and I appreciate that question. It's a very relevant question. I have one more question and that's about the mix of trees. I know that there were some changes made to the trees, but I know during, I just listened to the concept meeting last night to refresh. And I know there was some concern over, I don't know if it's concern, but some comments raised by the design review board, our landscape architect, board member Sharon about the overuse of crepe myrtles in Santa Rosa. They're a beautiful tree, yes, but they, there are a whole lot of other options. Was that, were those crepe myrtles changed out? Do we know? I don't know. I was focusing on these hoax, but I'm replacing the hot berries. Yeah, and I love that the oaks were swapped out. I am, this is the valley floor, the oaks, especially if you go to Valley Oak, that's just one of the best selections you can make there. They will flourish and those, I'm guessing that's a Valley Oak, right at the Southwest corner of 2827. This is a pear. It's a pear. It's a pear? It's a pear. That big tree? I'm just going to get our tree survey. Sorry, it's part of the packet, by the way. Yeah, sorry, I didn't say that. Big giant pear tree. I see that. So that's actually an exempt tree that, but it still has to comply with those federal standards, but you don't even need a permit to take that down. But I hope that I'd love to see, you know, a Valley Oak going its place. But on the Crate Myrtles, if those, Peter, do you know if those changed? No, I'm not sure, but if we're happy to put whatever trees you guys want us to put. I mean, I have a comment on that. We did redo the landscape plan completely after the preliminary hearing. And I believe that it was changed. And I even think they sent you a revised list. We sent the planner a revised list way back when. She's looking it up right now. So, but regardless, we're happy to condition. I think we were, that time when we redid the first or the last time, we were responding to the comment that somebody wanted to see more. Nobody told us to take out anything. So if there's a concern that we might have too many Crate Myrtles, put them into whatever you guys want to speak to. Okay, thank you very much. So I'm going to go ahead and I can, Sheila, I can just add a condition that'll just say, mix it, I'm not saying pull out the Crate Myrtles. I'm adding, mix it up a little bit. And if we could add in our landscape box to make those recommendations. Yeah, and absolutely. And let Sheila, that should be approved by Sheila, the landscape plan for. So I was just, just to help. It appears that the Crate Myrtles are located around the amenities building and the pool and the adjacent turf. And that's their only location based on the most recent landscape. Well, I'm sorry, and on Rain Dance Way, the Rain Dance Way thing. So they're actually, it does not appear that they're being used as street trees. And if I know Adam, which I do, I think the concern with Crate Myrtles is that their roots can get extremely invasive and they can tear the ever-loving bejesus out of all your sewer connections. And I think so, I think Adam is also, and they're dirty, they drop a bunch of junk. So I think Adam's concerned not only for, I think the longevity of your project, but also maintenance. And yes, they're beautiful and amazing, but they are messy little buggers. And I have concerns that they can't thrive when they're planted in small spaces. If you look at the Crate Myrtles trees that we have on across the street at City Hall, they're absolutely beautiful. They've got big, fat planters, they can grow and they can be successful. So I just like if they're, we can look at, can compare those two. I'm looking at the landscape plan that was submitted, Suzy, and there are six Crate Myrtles spread between the Recreation Center. Okay, so you guys have mixed it up. I'm sorry, I listened to that last night and I reviewed the plans on Sunday. So I didn't look at that. And I didn't look at them again last night. So thank you for that. Go ahead and just eliminate that condition. And so the landscape plan that's submitted now is the final landscape plan. Okay, yeah, it's fine. Okay. I just want to say, Sheila, if you look at the trees and you're unhappy with one, we're happy to accommodate. Okay. Yeah. So with that, so let's see, can you go back through and summarize the... I can, I don't have great... I have a lot of chicken scratch here, but hopefully it's pretty accurate. So the first one is that fence on the North Property Line should look the same on both sides of the property. And we can hold the occupancy for that through our building permit software. The CCNR shall have a condition that garages shall be used for vehicle parking. Third condition is that during construction, the two signs that are posted will have the contractor superintendent or representatives name, phone or an email and a response will be provided to anyone who contacts them in 24 hours, regardless of weekends or holidays. The fourth is, I think this was also a condition for the CCNRs, because we're talking about maintenance here, that trash can shall be stored in a concealed area, brought out no later than the evening before pickup and no later than 24 hours after pickup. I believe the mini-code has some information on that too, so I'm going to rely on that. Fifth condition and final condition is that the applicant shall prepare and submit a plan for, I'll call it household composting. And I can review that and prove that, but we could put a little locker and we'll call a hold on the occupancy until we receive that. Okay. I know, I'm going to... Susie, I got one comment, if I can. So on the fence condition, I mean, our improvement plans are going to have to show a detail of that. So wouldn't it be upon plan approval? I would, yeah, it would be... Rather than putting a hold on something. With the improvement plans, yeah. It's, yeah, but that may be something that she'll go out on, that'll be out of my control. I've gone out and I've seen several times with development projects where I've gone out and the fences have not been finished and they're just not attractive fences. And so I've held up final occupancy to get fences done, but it's fences, yeah, compatibilities are things for me. So I think it is for most of our decision makers. So I'm trying to pull up the resolution and I cannot multitask folks. So let me pull up the resolution so I can go ahead and read it. So the resolution is the resolution of the zoning administrator of the city of Santa Rosa, approving minor design review for the Meadow Wood Branch subdivision project located at 2853 and 2875 Deighton Meadow, Santa Rosa, assessors parcel numbers 043-011-055 and 043-011-006. File numbers PRJ21-021-DR21-054 and as amended by the added conditions of approval, I am approving the project and I'm very happy to see it going through. So with that, I will adjourn the meeting and thank you everybody for your input. If you want to get contact information, stick around to get all the contact you need. Thank you, Susan. Thank you.