 Okay, thank you for coming along, we're going to be talking about developing a website brief. This brief I actually designed for business owners originally and designed workshops to go with it for business owners. And what I found when I started doing that was actually the website designers that were going to me, can I grab a copy of that? Because they started realizing why I've created this and you're going to see this too. Okay, so disclaimer, this is generic information, I don't know your circumstances, use your story. So what are we talking about today? Why am I talking on this topic? Are the clients ready for you? How to develop that brief? How to use it? How to get the reviews for your site and get the maintenance going? And then Q&A at the end. Okay, so this is about me and this is why I'm talking about this topic. So I am three days a week a business connect advisor. How many people here are from New South Wales? Hands up. Keep your hands up. Have you ever heard of the business connect program? Yeah, that's not good. Okay, the business connect program gives you four hours of business advice at no cost with no catches. There's no spruaking, there's no upsell, there's no nothing. So if you are a small business owner yourself, take advantage of the service. But if you also know clients who need the service, and we'll talk about that in a sec, send them our way, send them to the business connect program. For those of you out of New South Wales, you can still take advantage of similar programs. There is ones across the country and you can look up on business.gov.au slash assistance and you will find what's available in your area. So at that place, at Western Sydney Business Centre, I've worked with 800 small business owners in the last three years. Now that's not in situations like this, that would be many thousands. That is face to face one on one in two hour plus meetings. That's a lot of insight into clients and I'm going to be talking about the five clients I saw this week because this is a good representation. So what I found from doing all these meetings with clients, I got sick to death of small business owners being ripped off. It really pisses me off, okay? So I'm like, you know what? I can't beat them, join them in some cases, but if you can't beat them, educate them. Treat these small business owners so that they can educate and empower themselves to either do it themselves or outsource with confidence. And that's the key thing, right? Choosing great people. Now I was just speaking to Zach before. The thing is, I've met a lot of website developers and that, to be honest, are not very nice people. But you know what? None of them are here. This community is awesome. I came to Woodcamp Brisbane last year and I was amazed at how friendly and welcoming you guys were. Those other website developers, they're probably the ones I'm going to be talking about later with some of the problem sites. I'm sure it's not you guys, but you guys are here because you want to learn a bit more and that's awesome. So I started FAQ business training to deal with this issue. So the Business Connect program, I talked about four hours, no cost. You get another six hours for $249. You get 10 hours for $249. So as I said, you or your clients take advantage of that service. As space I will warn you about, it is a digital program across the whole of Australia. The Australian Small Business Advisory Service is a federal government service. They have just launched in July the Digital Solutions program. Western Sydney Business Centre that I work for is the provider for the whole of New South Wales. We organise it. Now what I suggest is if you're awesome in the digital space, get in touch with your ASPAS provider in your state and offer to be part of the webinars, the workshops and things so you can get your messages out there. There's four streams they're covering, web and e-commerce, social media and digital marketing, cyber security and software. Okay, so why are we talking about it? I have seen so many crappy websites, okay? Some of the websites you would swear the person has developed themselves with no idea. And then they go to, no, no, I paid $10,000 to a web designer for that site. You're going, holy shit. So why are they bad? What are the common themes that come up? The first one is it doesn't meet the client's expectations. And there's reasons for this, which I'll go into in a sec. But a lot of them also can't update their websites. If you give a client a website and their only way of updating them is to come back to you, that is not helpful. What if their phone number had a typo in it like one of my clients had? She had to contact her Melbourne provider for a website and wait two weeks for them to update it and paid $250 for the privilege. That's not good service. It's not fair and it's not necessary. No SEO at all. So as I mentioned before, I saw five clients in my business advice sessions this week for over two our meetings. And of the five clients, one had no website at all because she's brand new. So we were doing things like setting up her company and stuff. Two of them had done their websites themselves and two of them had used web designers. One of those sites had zero visibility. The business had been up for three years. The website had been up for three years. I went site colon domain name. How many pages showed in their indexing? Zero. Was that a web designer site or a self-built site? Web designer. I'm sorry, but that is completely shit. Like seriously, not to be found at all on Google. So she's saying, oh yeah, we have some issues with our website. And I went, yeah, one really big one. It doesn't appear. The other ones are things like security certificates, brand new websites still going up without security certificates. Are you real? Like seriously, I'm not a web designer. I know you need a security certificate. Simple. The content that doesn't flow, and this is a big issue, people go to a website and they go down the page and the page just stops. There's no link to another page. There's nothing to tell the client, what do I do next? So think about the flow. So it's a poor user experience and it doesn't connect with the client's customers. So the other web designer site of those four that I saw last week, that site didn't rate. That site had over a 50% bounce rate. Why? Because it had no user experience whatsoever. This client has an amazing bridal shop with amazing experience. It's one of these ones. I don't know if you've seen Bridesmaids, you know, they shit in the street. You've seen that one? Yeah. That one. Right before that scene, they're actually in a bridal shop going through the experience of choosing a dress. So it's not about going to a rack, it's about having all your friends around you and having a champagne and all that. She does that experience. Her website? Nothing about that experience at all. Completely misses the point of what her business is. So why is that? Because there's no brief being done. She actually made the comment to me. She said, when she first got her site, she thought, oh, yay, cool, I've got a website. She was excited about it. After that, however, she's now realized how bad her website is. And she said to me, her comment was, lawyers used to be people that didn't have trust. Web designers are now filling their space. And it's true. A lot of people don't trust web designers. But why is this? The expectation thing is often because clients have no freaking idea. Remember, some people are coming from ex-corporate. They were niche specialists in their tiny space. They didn't cover this, they covered this. Now they're doing all these other things. They don't know about web design. You need to help them out. So without a brief, you're missing what they need to tell you, because they don't know what they need to tell you. So they're not communicating it to you. Some of them get over complicated websites that they can't update at all, which is just not going to work for them. As we said, no SEO. Poor user experience. We haven't thought about who is actually going to use that site at the end of the day. And what does this all come down to? It comes down to not having a website brief done. Hence why we're here. So how do we fix this problem? Well, first of all, are the clients actually ready for you? Are they the right clients? Now, in Australia, 97.5% of all businesses in Australia are small. Smalled is defined in this case as less than 20 staff. Okay, so that's pretty much every business in Australia. So we can't diss them and go, we're not dealing with small business, they're too hard, they're a pain in the butt. We don't want to do that. Stupid. But we need to work out if they're ready for you. Are they the right type of business? So for instance, if a hobbyist comes to you to do a website and you're going to charge him 5 grand for a website, think about it. Are they going to recoup the cost of that $5,000 website? If they're a hobbyist, probably not. So really should you be doing that service for them? Probably not. Do they understand their business? Now, I see a lot of intenders and startup business owners. They actually don't have a clue what they're going to be doing in their business. So how can you create a website for somebody that doesn't actually have a clue what they're doing? You can't. One client, 40-page website, I said to him, what happens if someone comes to you and says, I love what's on your website, what can you do for me? He had no idea what a service that she was going to be on the back of that. It was 40 pages of information. Can they afford you? Or should they just be going for a cheaper alternative? Do they know their customer? Have they done segmentation? One of my clients is a personal trainer. She'd segmented her business to disabled kids and to elderly people. What she had on her website, though, was photos of herself running and stuff like that so she looked like she was the end client and she was a 30-year-old woman. Her clients would look at her site and would not engage with it because there was no pictures of people like them on their site. If they don't know any of this stuff, please don't deal with them. Send them to a service like Business Connect or whatever you've got in your state. Send them that way. They will be more appreciative and then they'll come back to you when they're ready for their website. So I said, avoid hobbyists. Avoid those that don't have a clear idea or are too soon in the start-up phase and they just think, I have to have a website on day one. No point if they haven't actually tested what they're doing. And the other one just to be wary of is income replacers. These are people like builders or electricians that work for themselves as a sole trader. They never want to have employees. So they don't want an SEO website that's going to drive a whole bunch of traffic. They just want a site just so that they have some credibility. So think about what it is that your client needs. So developing the brief, this is about being consistent. It's about talking to your client, engaging with them, making written notes and then, most importantly, agreeing with the client. And I see some of you are chuckling and laughing because obviously you have this issue. Agree with the client. Manage their expectations. A lot of business owners do not know that a website designer, a website developer, a copywriter, a graphic designer, a photographer can all be different roles. They don't get that because there's some people that offer a service that covers all or most of that. They don't get it. So you need to communicate to them what part of the process you're doing and what things they're going to have to do separately. So what is the purpose of the website? As I said for some income replacers, it's not a big marketing tool. So that's not what they need. So actually ask them what do they want out of their website? What would a great website for them do for their business? Is it an online brochure? Is it purely just to give them credibility that they're a real business? Is it to be a massive marketing tool? Like where do you want to drive their inbound marketing cycle? Or are they doing e-commerce and they have to have a great website that allows them to distribute to their clients? Who is the website for? And you might think, well, this is obvious. And it is obvious. But you know how many websites I see that miss the second thing on this list and the third thing on this list? Your client is who you're building the website for. But the users of that website primarily are their clients and their prospects. Make sure you remember that. Ask the person and really understand what are their needs. How is it going to work for you? They're also obviously search engines. As I said before, if you have an invisible site, completely useless, right? So get to know the business first. The wedding shop was an example. It's not just she sells dresses and she's a wedding shop. That's not what her thing is. She's selling an experience, the experience of buying the dress. It's a big thing. So why do they exist? What's their unique value proposition? What do they do differently to their peers? Who are their clients and how are they segmented? How, therefore, is your website laid out? For instance, is their website going to be laid out by product or is it going to be laid out by customer? I have a client that has what could be a billion dollar product. It is awesome. He has five target markets that he's identified. But what does he go and do? He wastes that by marketing one message to them all. And then he sells about 50 products. So instead of having sales of a billion dollars, he's got sales of like, you know, 5,000. Stupid, because he's got people that are conflicting. He's got builders and architects that could use his product. But they don't want to deal with someone that's selling to the other and taking business away from them. So you've got to think about that. So they should be talking to architects differently to the way they're talking to their builder clients. What they do and how they sell, do they have a funnel they need to go through? If they're selling a $3,000 course, if I come today and say, right, I'm selling a $3,000 course, you're going to go, I don't know you from a bar of soap. Why would I buy that? So what journey do they have to take to buy that? What values does a business exhibit? Values I'm finding is becoming more and more important. People are starting to realize that values are what makes a difference. I got rid of a client a couple of weeks ago because our values clashed. I found that she'd created fake Google accounts to create fake reviews to put on Google. Not my kind of customer. I'm really big on customer service. That ain't going to work. Branding and budget. Can they afford you? Have they got their branding sorted? Or is this something that's going to be chopped and changed over time? So what are the website components? Do they already have things like their domain name, their email provider, all that stuff? Are you doing that for them? So this is part of the brief. Never ever please register domain names in your name. They must be registered in the client's name. You cannot hold someone's domain name hostage. I'm sorry, that's not fair. You can hold the website hostage or whatever, go for your life, but don't hold the domain name hostage. That is really not on. Be careful about offering hosting. I saw an example of one lady. She offered hosting for her dodgy business. I'll tell you she's dodgy. 30 or 40 complaints to fair trading. She's dodgy. But she was using Wix as her website that she was designing, really lovely. And she said, I'm going to offer 12 months hosting. But the 12 months hosting was through Wix, but she wasn't paying the bill. So she doesn't pay the bill, what happens? Sight goes down. So all the client's sites would go down. And it would be for three or four days before she could wrangle up some money to pay the bill, before she'd scammed another person and paid up. Terrible. Might be funny, but it's not. It's really not. There's poor women, a lot of these poor women, they were hobbyist type people. They just got completely shafted, it was horrible. Logo branding colors and fonts. Do they have that already? So my logo is a dark blue and a light blue. Do I know what my RGB colors are for that so that I can use that across my website? So get all that stuff from them. Graphics and photography, what styles do they like? Again, like the age and that, the demographics, what are they creating? So make sure it works with their website. What copywriting do they need? When I speak to people, a lot of people freak out about copy. And I know for you as web designers, a lot of you have a massive issue with this of getting copy from clients. You've gotta be upfront in that start of the process and tell them what they need to do. And I know some of them still won't do it. I've had people I know that just haven't done it. But be really crystal clear. But also you can tell them voice record. I literally just open up a Gmail blank email and voice record straight into my email and it transcribes for me. It's awesome. And if I'm doing a blog post or something, it's really quick and easy to use. The website flow, as I said before, pages shouldn't just stop and stop. Think about blog posts. Why do we blog? We blog a lot of the time for SEO. We get thousands of hits to a blog on a website and then nowhere do we think about the fact they've come from somewhere where they haven't actually known anything about a business. A little blurb at the bottom, like you put on a press release, about a paragraph about your business with a link to your about page or back to your homepage or a link to your booking page or whatever's relevant. Think about this, the links in that that you have, the flow through the website. What is the client like and dislike? Simple. I have one client, she told a web designer, I do not like certain colors. The first design that comes to her was of course in those colors. Now what does that do to her as a client? She's pissed off because what she's looking at, she's going, you know what? I asked you not to do that and you've done exactly what I said not to do. Do you listen to me? So she's immediately off with that web designer. I spoke to the web designer later and I said, why did you do that? And he said, oh, you know, because it's about creative license and blah, blah, blah, blah. But you need to communicate that to your client. Don't present it to her. Tell her in advance, is it okay if we actually do something using the colors you said not to use? Because otherwise, you've just already written that client off. And she was, she was very disgruntled about her website. Divi layouts and that are actually a really good place to use is to give examples of different things you can do. So like the new diagonals and stuff, the curves, it's a really good place just to say, do you like that style? Do you not like that style? Get a feel for it. Get them to tell you what websites they like, but then also tell them, you're not going to copy someone else's website for a couple of reasons. One being copyright and things. So don't just copy someone else's. Be crystal clear. Things like the buy now button on an e-commerce page. Does that scroll down the page with the user or not? Because the client might think, well that's obvious, duh, it should just happen. But you as a web designer, put the buy now button on the page, which is what you agreed. So if you do e-commerce sites and think about things like that, they have a place. So my brief looks a bit like this. So I started creating this little brief thing thinking it's a three page document or something. It ended up a 12 page spreadsheet. So it was a little bit more complicated than I expected. But it's about things like desired delivery dates, multiple page site or not, preferred platform and preferred theme and all that. So as I said, the idea for this was that a business owner could go through this largely themselves and then either create their site using something like a Divi or a Beaver Builder or they could go to the web designer and go, yeah, this is what I've created so far. I would like you to then do the wire frames and stuff and finish the job off. So think about how you wanna work with a client with your design. So the wire frames obviously had probably left the designer but somebody might still have some ideas about things they like. I still see clients, I one that has said to me, she wanted to copy the old version of Gumtree. Do we all remember how ugly that was? How horrible that was? Like why would you wanna copy that? But she was an order to type. She liked lists and it was kinda list-driven and she connected with that and I'm like, yeah, but most people don't. So probably not what you wanna create. Mobile and desktop, obviously that's a given. So the proposed wire frame, what I start at the top is things that maybe should be on the homepage, for instance, things like social proof, contact details, logo, most popular links and all that stuff, videos, whatever. One thing I would say for websites, remember, do not have autoplay without sound muted. It's nothing worse than when you're in an office looking up a site you shouldn't have been looking at and it goes bleh! And you're embarrassed, don't do that. So using the brief, usually it's gotta relate to the client and not about not delivering content. So why have I lost my plot? I'll get back to that. Add-ons, how many add-ons do you have? Things like their buy now button. If you have to go and fix that so that it moves through the page, that's gonna be extra rework for you. So if you have that in the brief, then obviously it's gonna help things. So the idea of the brief is so that we don't end up with problems. We don't end up with rework. Often the current websites are delivered that they deliver a site, not the site the client actually needs. So I don't wanna see people delivering in about a service as a contact in a homepage and not actually thought about what the client actually needs. Install monitoring tools. How many people here put Google Search Console, Google Analytics, and they end as a standard? It should be everybody. We should all be putting this stuff in. Clients need to see that information. Basic SEO. Have just a few keywords matted in. Again, maybe it's something you get the client to do some research on. But at least have some decent keywords in there. So the person has a chance of appearing and as we said earlier, make sure the site's actually indexed. It is indexable, it's indexed and Google can find it. Make sure you've got backups installed, not just through the host, but separately. I had a client who turned off his host somehow, God knows how he did this without getting warned, and he lost his deal-driven site. It had all the deal information, all the client information, none of it was exported. It was a disaster. Handover and maintenance. Small business owners need assistance, okay? They're not gonna be to do this themselves a lot of the time. So particularly someone that's coming from a Wix or something that just does itself in the background, they come to WordPress and they're like, oh my God, what's this? What's this update I need for this plugin? What's this? Do I need to do it? When do I need to do it? Think about how you're gonna deal with those issues. This can be where you can offer packages and you can offer them some training that might be some video training, online courses or checklists that say, this is what you do and when you do it. So offer them a website review a month or so later. Not just on the day one, get a review from them, they're testimonial going, yeah, you're awesome! But then a week later, it's a disaster. This site is up today. Obviously a website has gotta evolve over time. This site, you probably can't read it. Last updated, 30th of June, 2006. That's my Kiwi accent coming in. Are you serious? It's still live, I don't know why. They actually do have another website but they Google my business link straight to that one. So think about how you can manage their expectations for how these websites are gonna get updated. You may offer a maintenance program to say I will handle your updates for you but as I said, train them to do the basics so they can update simple text, add their blogs and that themselves. It gives you a business opportunity though to say to them for the bigger changes, come and see us. So what we've learned today, hopefully, why do you need to deliver an effective website through an effective, properly formulated brief? It helps to keep your clients happy, deliver within their time frames, make sure it's visible to Google, all obvious. Who we should avoid, your hobbyists, your startups that really don't yet have a clue, they're too early, get rid of them. Go through all the whole process but the key in developing the brief is to consider who will be using the site. Make sure that you're developing the site not just for the client but for the client's clients. Hand over, make sure there's training and make sure you know who's maintaining. So my homework for you, if you choose to accept it, if you already have a brief, enhance it, make some changes to it from what we've talked about today. If you don't have a brief, definitely start doing one from now and if you would like my one, you can send me a message and do it because being the crappy person I am, I still don't have my website up. It would have been, go to the page there and it just didn't happen. So unfortunately, if you message me or whatever, you can get access to that. So thank you. Thanks. Guys, any questions? Hello. How do you deal with things around copywriting when your client says, all right, just take it. I saw this image of one that, usually I'm trying to explain them what it means. Yep. Accepted? Yep. Yeah, just an idea. Okay, so I had a client contact me and she said, I just got this letter and the letters was an email and it said, you owe me $300 for using one of my images and she's going, is this a scam? And I went, oh no, not a scam, this is real. So when they get those type of letters, they suddenly realize the importance but what she had done, she had gone onto Google and if the image didn't have a watermark on it, she thought it was okay just to use it. You know, not so much. I tell people you can go to things like Pixabay, Pixels, Unsplash, you can use their site's images for free but always do a check. Do a right click, do a Google image search and check it because the person uploading the image could have uploaded an image that's not actually theirs. They don't actually have copyright for. So it's still a risk. With regards to text, I had a client who wanted to copy the same client that did the Dodgy Google review thing, by the way. She wanted to copy government websites. So the government family and children services website, she wanted to copy text out of there and put it on her site because she couldn't be asked to create and copy. Like two issues. One, breach a copyright and she was a lawyer. Think she'd know that but anyway. Second issue with it was that she, obviously for SEO, they're a higher ranking site than hers is ever going to be. How is she going to rank for SEO when she's just copied information off their site? She's going to be down because it's going to be duplicate content from their site. So you've just got to be clear to them and say it's not going to work. So like I said with the wording, I would ask them to voice record. It's a good way to get around it. Cool. Sorry. What? You said to avoid people that are just looking for income. Not to avoid them but just to watch how much you over capitalise. You're not doing a big bells and whistle site that's trying to attract them a whole lot of clients because they don't want them. But check with them what their vision is for their business. So some of them will say I don't know or some of them say I definitely want to have staff down the track. I want to have multiple vans on the road. I want to franchise. Those businesses go for your life. But if they're a pure income replacer and absolutely do not want to have staff, then they only need enough clients to keep them satisfied. So that's what you've just got to be careful of. Don't give them a $5,000 brochure site when a $500 brochure site would be perfectly fine for them. So it's about thinking about what you're offering. And you can make a call and go, I don't want to offer things the low end stuff. Perfectly fine. Have maybe somebody you can flick them off to. They'll just do a straight little, quick and easy website builder for them. Sorry. Anybody else? Yeah. You mentioned that it's important to know the client and the customer of the client. Yes. And a question about what do they expect from the website? In complex business like consulting and the other really esoteric type of activities, that is not available. What would you do to make it more agile rather than have requirements and deliver? So that's obviously where you've got to consider your client's needs and know that there's going to be scope for the future to change and add to their website. So you would make sure that day one you're going to say, okay, so what we want to do is create pages that we can easily duplicate. So obviously most people would have a services button and then they'd have multiple services under that. So you wouldn't want to make sure that each service then becomes a replication of the other services so it's all nice and uniform. But you would definitely make sure that that functionality is in there. You don't want to create them a four page site and that's it. So make sure you build it with that in mind. So it's always thinking about the end of mind. That's why we've always got to think about our vision for our customer. Where do they want to go in the future? And make sure that we're creating today is going to uphold for them now, but also allow for changes. So like I said, we empower them to make their own little changes. Things like they should be to change their phone number. They should be to change an image here and there, change some text. They should be doing that. We should be encouraging them to. But if it's creating a whole another section to their website, that's when we should be asking them to come back to us or come back to you guys as web designers and go, you know what? Come back to me and we'll sort that out for you. That's where you're actually building that ongoing business opportunity. Things like when the WordPress update came out, the big security one came out, right? Because so many people have been told before that you don't need to do updates right when they happen. In fact, leave it for a little while in case there's a change or a tweak. People left it. People were leaving it for a month or so because until they heard about, oh, this is what it's there for. It has to be put in now. But you as web designers, how many people in here are actually web designers and developers? How many of you have a CRM or an email list that you actually maintain contact with your clients? Not so many hands as the first lot, okay? Another point too for homework, create a CRM, create an email list. Actually keep in touch with your clients. When something like that's happening, you should be sending out a note to them and saying this email, this update for WordPress must go in immediately. It is a massive security issue. Your clients are gonna love you, but also what it does is it reminds them about you. It reminds you what an expert you are and they go, oh, that's right. I actually wanna add that other service to my page. They will come back to you then and you'll get more work out of it. It is such an easy thing to do. But how many of you create something, give it to someone and then that's it? How many of you have used this service? You've done something and that was it? All the time, right? So why don't we use our existing customer base more? They're there, use them. Yeah, I wanna go into that. Anything else? Do you have any suggestions in terms of language you can use to perhaps remind a client when they're working with a very limited budget? Because we very often get caught in this horrible phase where we hand over what they want in terms of requirements and then they're like, oh, can we add this and then all they'll put together designs and then those designs imply kind of like a redesign of existing infrastructure. And we're constantly caught in this process of handing over them wanting new things, us having to not have another discussion. And we end up spending a lot of time that should be spent developing, re-scoping, re-finalising all this sort of stuff we don't get anywhere. So part of that comes down to the brief discussion at the start, but part of that's also creating some documentation with clients. So one of the things you could put on a site as a web designer, as a downloadable, is something like how to work with a web designer. And actually give them all those instructions up front. But do you know the funniest thing with those changes? Isn't it always that the client comes to you thinking it's the easiest change in the world and it's a week worth of fixing? Whereas something they think's really complicated is like a two second job, it's always the case, right? So we've got to be up front with them saying to them, this is what you're agreeing to and this comes back to them signing off. You've got to sign it off and say to them, this is exactly basically what it's gonna mock up and look like. There will be nothing changed from this, that's it. The other big issue is the timeframe of delivery. Because they're not giving their content on time, they lose their window. You've gotta be clear to them they've lost their window. When they come back with content, they can't think then you're gonna turn it around in two days or a week or whatever because no, they lost their window. They actually have to wait for a new window to open. That's the sort of thing you've got to communicate clearly at the start. And as long as you do that, most people are reasonable. You're dealing with small business owners. They understand because they get clients doing that to them. So talk to them like that. So say to them, if you're a blah, blah, blah, you must get people doing blah, blah, blah. And then they're going, oh yeah, I get that. Oh, that's so annoying when that happens. And then they're suddenly on the same page as you. You're not just a service provider. You're another small business owner talking to a small business owner. Assuming you are. If you're an agency officer, it's a little bit different, but you're still talking to them on their level. Cool, is that it? One or two more questions and then we'll wrap it up. Any more? I will just mention again about the government services. So just so in case you didn't know that down before. So business.gov.au slash assistance. All of you, anyone here that's in a business that's less than 20 people can access a lot of services. But that assistance tab has things for everybody. So for instance, if you're a small business owner and you hire an employee in New South Wales, there's a grant of $2,000 available for hiring that employee. There's a lot of things like that that a lot of people don't know about. So that's why you come to people like the Business Connect program or whatever's in your state. And take advantage of that, because we can let you know all those things that you don't know about. So like I said, you can use the service, but also you can refer clients that aren't ready for you to use the service as well. So make sure you take advantage of it because the government does provide stuff. The reason they don't just go out and go, here, New Business Owner, here's $500. It's because most of them will go and print flyers and drop them in their surrounding area and then go, I got one customer. They come and see someone like me or go, yep, unless you're a restaurant business, maybe you get away with that. Anyone else? No, not flyers. We'll go a different strategy. So it's about them getting money for something useful. So instead of giving someone money, they give them advice. So take advantage of it. Thank you, everybody. And it was useful if anyone has any questions. Privately, they can come and ask me. Thank you. Thank you.