 ...on supporting the Government of Indonesia in their very successful efforts to reduce deforestation here. You will have seen the recent WRI figures showing Indonesia, one of the few countries in the world where the rate of deforestation is coming down. So it's a fantastic testament to the work that the Government of Indonesia are doing on deforestation. And we are definitely keen now to do more work on blue carbon and on mangroves. In our work here we have four key principles and then I will hand over to my colleagues. One is that we work alongside, in support of and with our Government of Indonesia colleagues. We normally display a very small role supporting Government of Indonesia policy. Very often, sometimes actually sat within the Government of Indonesia. For example, one of our programmes has been ten years sitting inside Kahlaka. It's a little seed of help to our colleagues and partners in the Government of Indonesia. So that's the first thing that everything we do is in support of Government policy here, Indonesian Government policy. The second thing is that we try and work where we can very closely with communities. If the communities aren't on board then none of us are going to make any progress. And especially around livelihoods. If local people can't see a value to their livelihoods of the type of work we're trying to do, then it's almost definitely doomed to failure. The third thing is we try to work with a very holistic approach. So certainly South Kalaman Tan where we've been working with a lot of our partners in this room. We have a landscape approach. We're trying to look at the whole of the peat dome and see how together a series of initiatives can try and make a really genuine progress. I'm sure that's the approach we should be taking in the coastal environment. Not picking out tiny bits but looking at the whole of the coastal environment. Both the terrestrial near coast and the near sea as well. And fourthly, I think the really key thing is to be long term. Projects that last a few months are not going to make a lot of impact. Projects that last just a couple of years probably are not going to reap anything like the benefits they probably could. When I look at a programme, if it's less than five years I don't read the contents. I go straight to the duration and if it's less than five years I just ask for it to be revised. Because it stands very little chance of making any really sustainable meaningful progress. So I'll leave it at that. Manchester UK Government is very, very keen to expand our work in blue carbon, especially around mangroves. And we are longing to find opportunities to work alongside our colleagues in the Government of Indonesia. Thank you. I think we need to give a big applause for this statement. Very relieving statement. Before I go further, I just wanted to explore the same kind of question for everybody. Is the Norwegian Government perception about blue carbon and what will be done in the future related to specifically for blue carbon? I know the Norwegian Government is very strong for the green or red plast, but is there any specific strength or new coming programme for blue carbon? Please. Thank you very much, Pak. First, thank you very much for the invitation. I'm very honoured to be in an event with so many experts on blue forests, blue carbon. Growing up as an inland village boy in Norway, I was not very much exposed to blue forests when I grew up. I did work in a tree nursery and I did help my parents to plant trees, but I don't think those plant trees would stand a chance in salt water. My fascination came from being introduced to mangroes by reading detective books. I was reading about the hardy boys and they went on adventures in the exotic mangroe landscapes, where they also met exotic wildlife like crocodiles. I kept my fascination when I was working with the Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change, but then we only looked at this from a resilient side. We did not very much look at this from the carbon sequestration side. Now I feel very privileged living in Indonesia, in the home of the largest mangroe forest in the world, and also having the chance to go and explore and work with these landscapes and communities, which are so valuable and so vulnerable and so beautiful. This is a great learning experience, but I guess that you're most interested in the official government policies. You know us mostly in Indonesia for our climate and forest cooperation, which is the largest bilateral cooperation between the two countries, but the second largest is our marine cooperation, and that is also the one that is growing the fastest. We very much recognize that mangroes and related coastal ecosystems are critical for the well-being of people, as Tom is pointing out, and the planet, and they are key to reach the goals of the Paris Agreement and also the sustainable development goals as this event very much recognizes. Then we also see from the Norwegian side that mangroes and the coastal ecosystems do not receive the attention they deserve for too long. So we are very happy to see this conference, give them well-deserved attention in the Indonesian context. On the Norwegian side, last year our government presented a white paper on the place of the oceans in our foreign and development cooperation. This white paper proposed blue carbon or blue forests as a priority, and we see this as a natural continuation of Norway's engagement on red plus around the world with other countries like Indonesia. We are following up this white paper now on different levels that would mean we at the embassy will have to do our share, and also on the highest possible level our prime minister in December decided to establish a high level panel on building a sustainable ocean economy. That is on the highest possible levels. She has invited heads of states to participate in this panel, and we are very excited that President Jokowi has accepted the prime minister's invitation to participate, and together with prime ministers and presidents from other important coastal nations like Australia, Portugal, Mexico. The minister of maritime affairs and fisheries, Ibu Susi has already actively contributed to this panel, and we are very excited to see what they will deliver for the benefit of our shared oceans. Back to the mangroves. They are, as we see, the most effective carbon sinks, more effective than the terrestrial forest that you are already working on, and they should belong in our bilateral cooperation. For like this, it's easy to have a particular focus on the carbon sequestration, but also we will work with partners like the UKCCU with our development partners in Indonesia to have the landscape focus and to have the focus on the people and the communities. I am sure we will get questions from you later, so I think I will save some more examples for now, and give some time to the other speakers. Give applause for Park Chris. Before I give a comment, I would like to directly invite Ibu Aseli Caterina from USAID. I think you would like to have some music for your song. We can use some slides. Slide presentation please. While they are preparing, can you... Slide, so that's it. Ibu Aseli. I also, okay, I think here we are, you can directly answer the same question what the US government perceive about the blue carbon and what have been done in the past and what will be in the future blue carbon kind of project or activity. Please Ibu Aseli. So probably it's better to give a little bit overview about the USID. So you know where I see it under the USID Indonesia program. So with the government of Indonesia, we have what we call it five year strategy plan. So our five strategy plan is developed jointly with the government Indonesia and other stakeholders. So that's true, a lot of consultation process at the national and also local level. And then under the strategy, our marine and fisheries program fit under the environment office portfolio. And the environment office portfolio actually in Asia we have six sector and I'm only representing one sector by the marine and fisheries portfolio. Out of the six sector that we have under the environment office, there are three actually related sectors, the forestry program. I think our colleagues from the USID study program already say something about their program. And then we have a climate change program. Actually we also partner with the ICCTF on that one. And then we have the marine and fisheries portfolio that I would like to share in this afternoon session. So can I just stand up and then... Five to seven minutes if it's okay. So my title of the presentation is Protect Indonesia Marine Biodiversity. It's critical in safeguarding Indonesia's future. Actually not only safeguarding Indonesia's future, but protecting Indonesia's biodiversity is very critical to our regional folks and we also have the impact globally and I'll explain it later on. Next. So we have a big component marine biodiversity program. But when we design the program, we not only focus on the protecting the biodiversity, but we also consider the climate change impact and the adaptation. And then we also try to balance between the utilization and also conservation efforts in Indonesia. So that's why we have a sustainable fisheries management component under our program. And then we also want to use the opportunity to expand the economic opportunity at the local for marine tourism. Of course we would like to promote something that is sustainable both for the system, for the people and also for the business. So this is our approaches under the marine portfolio. Next. So in order to achieve our program because we want to integrate between marine and fisheries, in the past we have one single project that's dealing only on the marine conservation and then the other project dealing on more fisheries. But under this current strategy we try to integrate between these two components. So we work in the most biodiversity provinces in Indonesia. So this is the hotspot of the global hotspot of marine biodiversity in the world. So we work in the three provinces. North Maluku, Maluku and also West Papua. These numbers are taken from our recent assistance working with the national government and local government in developing the provincial marine spatial plants. So this is our targets under our project. So our ecosystem, our primary ecosystems are coral reefs, seagrass and mangrove as you see, the majority of the mangroves are located in West Papua and then I'll take an example from our West Papua work. So in terms of the technical approaches, we use as much as terminology that the government in Indonesia has right now. So we divided our technical approaches into four components. Marine protected areas, ecosystem approach to fisheries management, spatial plan and also a law enforcement. So that's the four technical approach that we have. Next please. So in the three provinces because this is so huge, we cannot cover the whole provinces. So when we identify where we need to work on, so we have the gap analysis and then track analysis. In terms of the gap analysis for example for MPA, we see a lot of investment already in West Papua on the MPAs that for example for Raja Ampat, we only do small activities in the marine protected areas, but we do more MPAs activities for example in Bintuni and South Sorong working with our implementing partner WWF and then we are working in the Fak Fak area with the conservation international and then our North Maluku work is led by WCS and then for Maluku is with the Coral Triangle Centre and then actually we have a coordinating, implementing partner, the TETRA Tech on this regard. And then that's our primary partners, but actually we are working with 15 organizations including two universities in West Papua as well. Next. So this is the example. I took this example because we are talking about the blue carbon, actually it's green from above. So this is our work that we've tried to establish mangrove-based conservation in Bintuni. Bintuni is located in West Papua and then also since we have tried to integrate between the management of the fisheries and also the conservation. So we work also on the fisheries aspect and in this regard the primary fisheries activities in this area crabs, shrimps and also baramundi. The interesting thing for baramundi, they only take the swim bladder because it's very expensive and then they export for China. So mostly small scale fisheries, small scale fishermen, traditional tools and in the past actually in this area there were shrimp trawlers but because it's banned in 2014. So many people see from the industrialized fishing to more small scale and it's also give opportunity for the coastal community who lives in this area to have a better economic income. So we work also with the crab fisher in the middle. So there's the crab, mud crab and then also this is a type of boat that the community use, very small scale. And then we just recently did an assessment in this Bintuni Bay and then we found about like 27 mangrove species and then 5 associated mangrove species and also found many charismatic marine animals like dolphins, crocodiles also. So it's a very interesting place but we also aware that other developments are also happening in the Bintuni Bay so we also need to work with the other sector as well. So actually in the Bintuni Bay, the Ministry of Environment and Forestry, we already started to protect some of the mangrove forests in that area. And then under the development of the Provincial Marine Spatial Pan of West Papua we also work with together and then plan to establish and in addition to the Kailhaka Conservation Area is about 200 mangrove-based protected areas. Next slide please. This is the Bintuni Bay, this is the profile of the Bintuni Bay. So this information is taken from our book that will be launched during our Oceans Conference but I had mentioned that one. So this is the information that is available in our book. So there are three volumes and very informative especially about where we work, what will our intervention, what our targets. So this is one example from our side in Bintuni Bay and then we have the baseline for MPA because still no MPA right now so the ranking is still zero. So we use the Ikape-Tigaka, it's probably your familiar with. So we try also to track the progress or improvement of management of the MPA using this tool as well. Next. So in the world of fisheries intervention based on the assessment I think someone mentioned about the consistency of the data collection, the standard, the analysis and etc. So we work with the Minnesota Marine Affairs and Fisheries Center specifically with the Fisheries Research Center. So we establish together the data base so all the data are being stored in the Minnesota Marine Affairs and Fisheries and we work together how to analysis and then later on when we have a better time series that can come up with the harvest strategy of our specific species. So in the fisheries we work on the stock assessment, IFIS, there's the database platform that the government Indonesia has a new name, I forget I think EBRPL. And then in Eastern part of Indonesia the customary laws are still very strong so we try also to incorporate into the management system and then we work with the government to improve the log book and the compliance of the log book. We have also a small scale facial registration because we also want to understand how much is bought out of the water and then also have them to get the Catepinalayan fishery cards. So that's the fisheries. Next. So talking about the conservation and fisheries, I think people are more interested to talk about the cash or about the money. So this is where the money goes for the crab fisheries. So we study the crab supervision analysis. The production in the Bintuni Bay in 2016 is about 500 tons. So it's 50% of the shrimp production actually, but the price of the crab is so high. So even this is a small scale but the value is very high in the Bintuni. So the majority of the good quality as always products coming from any sectors will be exported out the country. So the majority target for crabs are Malaysia, Singapore, Thailand and China. They usually transport to this country through Surabaya on Jakarta. Next. So this is just the hardest part actually when we are developing a project or a program in Asia to set up the right indicators. But this is actually just to show you a number of factors that we are trying to protect. We have other indicators, how we measure the behaviour change, how we measure the income level, the compliance to the regulations on a policy. The picture on the left is actually our team from I believe WF when they are doing the survey in 2017. So what I want to conclude. Next slide please. I'm very pleased by Jamal to be here among the carbon members. I'm not the carbon expert even my initial start we see. But I think even we come from different angles. I think they are protecting biodiversity and work in other programs as well. We can complement one to another. I think the good things that we can use this platform is to find the synergies among development partners, among the governments and other countries. So we can have a greater impact, especially Indonesia for our. Thank you. Excellent. Although it's taking a bit longer. But anyway, I have many notes here for USAID. By the way, your name is Celi Caterina. Let's move. This is like antonnes in the afternoon. Tony Wage. I would like to ask my question. I know that ICTF started with green dimension. And I believe also that driven by donors in the beginning, the mission maybe to more to climate change mitigation in terms of green carbon. How far the ICTF will move in the right direction? Kejala ni. Here at a time nice. ICTF yet to bring green carbon. That's very challenging question. But I believe you can answer this one. You do have presentation, right? Slide by Tony Wage. OK. Well, thank you so much. First of all, Pa Jamal Jomba. So if he mentioned about CC, so I will call him JJ Jamal Jomba. So Pa Jamal. That is a very good question. If I may, can I get back to you with questions about ICTF and I'll just give you some sort of a brief background picture of what we were thinking about the blue carbon issue here. So yes, please, if you could go back to the slide. Just a picture to give you an idea that potentially, again potentially we have this much, the numbers is very important, but just take the 17%, 3.3 x 10 to the 15 gram carbon of what we call the reservoir of the carbon of Indonesia representing the 17% of the global carbon reservoir of Indonesia. This number is very much debatable. Of course you have an excellent team of experts here that can debate this number. Yet I want to show why I want to show this, is the importance of Indonesia in the global picture. Yes, this is very nice, very important numbers, but also very staggering, because if you think about the rate of deterioration of the degradation of these ecosystems, because of the blue carbon ecosystems, is also very alarming. This number could change at any time in terms of years or maybe millennium or something, but of course we have to think about not just this number but the rate of degradation. Just about this degradation, I just did a little calculation by JJ. We have on average about 17 to 18 million cars and this is data in 2014, coming cars coming to Jakarta every day. That number, the emission of the cars, if we take that total, will surpass the rate of degradation of the mangroves and seagrass if you think about the 11 million car per year that can be equivalent to the rate of degradation of these blue carbon ecosystems. I think when we think about blue carbon, yes, we can think about the carbon, but please think about the conservation as well. Pa Daniel, I commend you for hosting and also coordinating this event. I've been doing this in over almost 10 years, promoting blue carbon, since I was in the Middle of the West in Viserys, but this is by far the most successful one, quantity and quality. I see here Emily, it went back some years ago when we started this, but the idea here that I want to highlight is what we need to think as a collective. I agree with you Patom, this is not donors and recipients, but we are all partners to save what we have in Indonesia. Can I have the next slide please? I'm sitting here representing the ICCTF, Indonesia Climate Change Trust Fund. The only trust fund dealing with climate change and the only trust fund that the Indonesian government established to support the objective of Indonesia's climate change issues. I'm grateful that we have people here, but they're also sitting here with me, partners that have been helping ICCTF. Don't worry about the numbers, but I just want to pick the 76 projects that are on the top left of the slide. This is the number of projects that ICCTF have done since 2010, and only a handful of these deals with blue carbon. To answer your questions, yes, now we have to make a bold movement towards the oceans or at least towards the coastal areas. Most of these are land-based. Out of 76, how many related to blue carbon? Only five or six. I'll get to the next slide. Most of them are land-based and mitigation adaptations, as well as energy sectors. We are talking about the climate change. What about the coastal area? Like I said, I just picked four or maybe five or six projects. One in Riau, Kalimantan, and one in the two in Kalimantan, and also in Belicom. We are dealing with mangrove ecosystems, and thanks to our partners here sitting with me, Pat Tom, you have been very supportive in helping ICCTF to bring the issues of conservation of the mangrove area, especially the coastal area, as well as grant that we receive from the USAID. But the point here is that all of these projects are dealing with community livelihood, ecotourisms, conservation, replanting of the mangroves, and also we are thinking about livelihood of floating cage, such as in Kotawaring in Barat. So the idea that we have from ICCTF is, yes, we have to do this conservation, but how is by through helping the communities they are living nearby the ecosystems itself. The rest of them are mainly terrestrial. This is our project of ICCTF. Only a handful of projects are dealing with the coastal area and coastal communities. And we have to do more. We are planning on this couple of projects here in North Slavia and in Nusatangara Barat as well. But again, community as well as trying to help with the livelihood and the policy. So I'll get there. So can I get the next slide please? So this is part of the introductory part by JJ that I just want to introduce to you the initiative that ICCTF has been mandated. I need to reiterate that ICCTF is a government working unit established by Bapanas. And as a working unit in Bapanas, we are also mandated to help the government objectives. And with Bapanas now, ICCTF has been tasked to roll in the idea of what we call the Blue Carbon Strategy Framework. The Blue Carbon Strategy Framework is a policy initiative. So I'm trying to divert this with the scientific initiative because there are so many of them. A lot of people here in this room are doing the scientific aspects. You are doing a great job. But in terms of the policy, this is what we also have to think because from the discussion before, I'm hearing from the presenters that yes, you need the government initiative. You need the government support. And I hope this Blue Carbon Strategy Framework will become the initiative that can mainstream for this initiative. If you are talking about Bapanas, then we have to deal with the RPAJMN, the midterm development plan for five years, which then needs to be translated into the next RPAJMN, the annual one. And also, what we have to do is strengthen the collaboration between ministries. So at the beginning, to the mandate of Bapanas, ICCTF will help coordinating the coordinating ministry of maritime affairs, Camancomar and Bapanas, working closely with the two closest sectoral ministries, namely Ministry of Environment and Border Forestry, KLHK, as well as Ministry of Marine Affairs and Fisheries. So, J.J., this is just an initial idea that I just want to touch because there are other people that talk about this also, but I'm open to talk about the IBCSF. So, again, thank you so much for having me here on the platform. I commend Pa Daniel for this. Looking forward to the discussion further. Thank you Pa. Big applause for Pa Daniel. I feel relieved now to know that ICCTF is moving to the right direction. Our last speaker for this session is Marcel Silvius. He is an Indonesian representative for the Global Green Growth Institute. Time is yours. The slide to Pa Marcel. Thank you very much. Because of the time for Marcel, I didn't realize that we only have half an hour left for the discussion also. So, it is up to your wisdom to manage your time. Maybe not more than ten minutes, please. I will take less than half an hour. All right, thank you. I promise. Yep, by representation. Thank you very much. It's really a pleasure to be here. Although GGGI, I have to say, the Global Green Growth Institute is not a donor. Of course, Pa Tom also said to the Government of Indonesia we are trying to help where we can. We are helping with this planning process. I just saw Pa Madriil coming in. So we are helping a little bit with the RPGMN, the next five-year plan and looking at the sustainability of that also in the longer term. We are helping Forest Management Unit establishment and business planning for them. For instance, in East Kalimantan and Central Kalimantan. But we are not doing anything specific on blue carbon, I must say. But I do hope that in the RPGMN blue carbon will get due recognition. And that's one of the things that we as a peer reviewer of the results we will be looking for. Also in the East Kalimantan our East Kalimantan work with TNC. We have other partners where we are strengthening the FMUs. We have also been working on the Emissie Reduction project document for the FCPF of World Bank where we hope to generate through better planning business-based forest management and forest restoration. We hope to generate in terms of performance-based payment something like a hundred million dollar that will provide an incentive for all local stakeholders to put more effort in the conservation and restoration and sustainable management of the forest resources. And again, blue carbon is part of also of that. But then in addition to looking at that performance-based payment we believe there is more need also for generating upfront funding to do this work. And we hope that actually the performance-based payment that's hanging there in the market we could perhaps create things like peatland bonds or mangrove bonds that will provide upfront money to make investments that will enable private sector to come in and also enable public-private partnerships cooperation between government and private sector. I think that's very important in these coastal landscapes. This is in the Asmat Minica region in Papua taken from a plane. It's one of the largest mangrove areas in the world. Very little studied, very little known but of course a huge carbon store but even more and that's why carbon, blue carbon it's a very nice title somebody this morning said it's a nice PR instrument blue carbon but the real value of mangrove lies in its productivity in terms of fisheries, wood but also in the coastal protection so the resilience it provides not just for climate change but also for all the threats that are there out there already in terms of storms and other things that are happening in the coastal zone. So I have a few slides indeed so I will now stand and take the other microphone. Yes. Just to show the next one. Just to show the importance. Again we've seen several figures. One of the figures we developed with the mangroves that represents something like 63 coal-fired power plants. The degradation of the tidal marshes 16 coal-fired power plants and the seagrass degradation 39 coal-fired power plants. So in total these coastal areas represents almost 100 coal-fired power plants in the world and that's every year. Peatlands of course are the world's biggest carbon stores by far outweith this but you also have to recognize that a lot of the coastal ecosystem including mangroves are based on peatlands and you can't separate these things and one of the things that is happening in policy is that these things are separated and that mangroves are just seen as a little stripe of land on a map and are not seen in the context of the landscape. One of the things that GGI is doing worldwide is indeed developing certain mangrove oriented projects but we don't call them like that we call them coastal zone projects because we're looking at the entire coastal landscape by just saying we're going to protect this mangrove forest from logging or other first conversion impacts that's not enough you have to see also how the mangroves relate to the inland area for instance if you block off the fresh water flow into the mangroves by for instance building a road or a dike the mangrove will be killed and you can have a nice greenbelt own policy but it's not going to help so when you are planning coastal zone development or any development in the coastal zone take account of your coastal ecosystems. Next one. I mentioned there's a lack of really effective regulations there are a lot of regulations in Indonesia and also in other countries in the world but they're not effective. Often people don't even know who owns the land or who governs the land is it the Ministry of Environment and Forestry or the Ministry of Marine Affairs and then there's the local government that battles for these resources often you see illegal land acquisition people just convert it and say this is my land and then they get a certification of that so that's really interesting so the old race of the inland hydrology is a key impact the ground water extraction we saw from Mr Pahendra earlier today the huge areas of coastal erosion on the north coast of Java why is this eroding so much it's the ground water extraction from industry in the coastal area the muck is subsiding by 15 to 20 centimeters a year it's not just Jakarta also the muck that whole region and the mangrove and the sediment accretion in these coastal areas don't keep up with that land subsiding so you're losing your mangroves you're losing your land you are forcefully evacuated not by government but by the sea they are being washed away they have to migrate out of it that really represents a huge cost to society a social cost environment cost and economic cost but also when we buy tiger prawns on the market most people don't know these come from the intensively managed aquaculture ponds on the coast which often have been developed 90% I would say developed at the cost of mangroves so the public is not aware of how they actually relate to the coastal areas and how their purchasing power is actually impacting that next one please it comes at a high cost loss of livelihoods, land erosion high cost of mitigation measures in terms of dykes by diversity reduced resilience of coastal communities so there's really a need for enhanced governance in these areas next one limited awareness so policy and regulations need to start to be developed in such a way to support the production systems that can be developed in conjunction with mangrove restoration and conservation at the moment those policies are lacking because they're only looking at the mangroves they're not looking at the whole coastal zone and we have to take account of the whole coastal zone some of the activities and international activities such as Aquaculture Stewardship Council and the Marine Stewardship Council actually provide very good frameworks for such policy development and I would encourage everyone to look at their criteria and principles next one please so coming to finance then why are all these destructions happening, why is the conversion happening, well the banks that are providing a lot of the finance to the private sector in the coastal region generally don't have very much of an idea of what's happening there they don't have the awareness of the knowledge on coastal management sustainability management they try perhaps to be in compliance with social and environmental safeguards we have very little expertise and definitely not focus on the coastal zone as a result very difficult very easy to secure funding for unsustainable developments in the coastal zone but very difficult to get funding for the much more risky perhaps in the beginning a more difficult and smaller scale green growth development possibilities in that zone so there's a need to redirect that financing okay next one please so our needs is GGI is just that we originate projects, we design them we structure projects and the finance instruments environment and social safeguards and ensure that the focus is also on inclusive development so a lot of the attention will be on the communities and not just on the larger companies next one please next one we'll move on a little bit quicker next one so the role of the donors or the partners is to refinance or redirect the finance flows how can we assure that there's more money going to sustainable initiatives rather than unsustainable initiatives that requires awareness it requires principles and criteria frameworks, it requires policy reviews in this sense and requires also help to the finance sector itself in terms of the banks to create that awareness in these finance conglomerates ensure that they know what they're doing in these coastal landscapes there's a need for de-risking the alternative developments often people just think if we give a little bit of money and time to a coastal community they will restore the mangroves for us but for them it represents a huge investment in terms of their time and their efforts and then they are not sure if they actually are going to harvest the positive results from it because they don't have a land tenure in it or they have other insecurities so they need to be de-risked in their efforts and then I'm sure communities can play the key role in mangrove management and restoration and in the economic development of that coastal zone so de-risking of particularly small-scale community-based, business-based enterprises in the coastal zone I think is a crucial way forward for Indonesia so Indonesian government and partners can invest in public-private partnerships we do need to have also a larger private sector involved and that needs specific attention but again what the partners of the government particularly could do is help with a settlement of microfinance facilities at the moment they are very limited of those around in Indonesia remarkably few microfinance possibilities communities do not therefore have access to this kind of funding and that's where I think the donor community really could make a big difference and I would encourage them to look then also at how they can collaborate with particularly the local banks to get these established so we invest in business models and plans for green coastal development, there's a lot of very good examples in Indonesia for community-based coastal zone restoration involved in Francis Silver Fisheries we heard nice examples from Pan Yoman earlier this morning I think there needs to be specific attention in Indonesia to supporting industry to take on and adopt the principle criteria of the marine and agriculture stewardship councils there are great possibilities for development of sugar industries and alcohol industries also for ethanol for Francis for transport as an alternative biofuel NIPA is one of the most productive plant species around in the world but it's hardly used and it's not developed at implantations although there are very good innovative techniques developed over the last 10 years that make a really viable product and more productive than most other biofuel crops in the world and then there's the need for building the nature approaches in dealing with many of the coastal zone friends last but not least I think the partners can help to ensure that there's transparency in the planning process in the policy processes of the government particularly on the social and environmental risks of development as well as underneath to build in safeguards social and environmental safeguards in the project, thank you thank you Marcel, give a big applause for our last speaker today college my friends ladies and gentlemen unfortunately we only have 15 minutes left for the discussion I believe so many people would like to raise their hands to be honest I would like to give everybody opportunity to express please this is not your time to do a presentation so please be very sharp quick and only the most important issue and no further explanation so please raise your hands and identify yourself and straight forward start from and the three in the middle only three we start with three please the third question is what is the future of the LOI of this bilateral agreement and just one short question on mangrove management in North Maluku I looked at the one picture of creatures like crabs and lobsters getting entangled in this network of mangroves to what extent can they benefit as a business to the local population you talked about having them being exported but to what extent has the amount made last question hello my name is Mul Tantra from Green Forest based in Singapore I managed the largest mangrove concession in the world actually located in West Papua Indonesia in Bintuni Bay and that has been going on for 30 years anniversary so before USAID went there we were already there so the questions really is related to any kind of donor help for sustainable use of the resources which I have not seen before whether there is something to think about because it allows a sustainable impact for maintaining the mangrove forest for many many many many years to come I would like to give actually an opportunity to everybody to respond some of the direct question but some of the indirect question is considered as a closing statement so please I start from Tom Owen Edmonds from UK Climate Change Student can you give your response to the questions arise from the audience and also this is considered as a closing statement thank you lovely thank you shall I do one about partnering I'm not entirely sure why you had to do that every time you said partnering that's how we operate here for many decades we have an extremely close relationship with the government here level of partnering here so maybe we can talk outside but I'm a bit surprised to see that hand signal used throughout your question in terms of why is nothing being done on blue mangrove I might hand that over to when she has her chance because there's a lot going on I'm aware of a really excellent USA program called The Starry who are doing incredible work down in the Momeca mangroves and have been for a long time but I believe that a tallest mangroves in the world an incredible extent of mangroves and they've been working there for a long time I believe the USA C program are also doing a lot of work on blue carbon so there is a lot of work going on by many people in this room already on blue carbon I can say that we as UK are not doing very much at the moment on blue carbon and we would definitely like to do more so that's an answer to your question in terms of a closing statement all I would say is that I think good things can happen quickly over this two days we will have a lot of problems laid out to us a lot of obstacles actually when you look at when a country like Indonesia decides to focus on something they can get very very positive results very quickly I look at illegal timber exports which are now pretty well down to nothing first country in the world to qualify for due diligence free exports to the European Union an incredible example to the world I talked about the deforestation rate we talked about fires going down Indonesia can, I'm sure will do something very profound on blue carbon and this is a fantastically welcome step along that path thank you blue carbon being covered by your bilateral partnership I will try to answer your question at the same time so the commitments on the international level towards the UNFCCC including the nationally determined contribution and on the tools that are developed by the Indonesian government so we are I have to say that we are at a very exciting time of this partnership so Minister Sita Nurbaya has been a driving force to transform the forest sector in this country to reduce their missions she has expressed that she thinks we will soon enter the results based payment we have an official indications numbers on forest covering Indonesia that if they can be verified they could potentially trigger very large payments under our bilateral partnership just to answer your very your question about the spending so when the agreement was signed it was an agreement that 20% of those up to up to 20% of those 1 billion dollars could be spent before we reach the results based payment cycle so we have spent around 15% of the totals of $150 million on the direct bilateral partnership in addition to that there are programs like the global green growth Indonesia program like the AN Green fund which is targeting Indonesia like all our civil society partnerships that are funded by the European operation in Indonesia they don't count so we can at least double that amount for what our investments are in Indonesia so far and those numbers will increase significantly as soon as we have the verified emission reductions as soon as the funding instrument is in place and as soon as the safeguards instruments are in place so we are very hopeful that we very soon will reach the third phase of the partnership and much payments will flow into the Indonesian forest and forest protection work then to go to to the mangroves so or blue forest and blue carbon blue carbon is to some extent already included in our partnership the Indonesian fell which we of course also build upon and the MRV system is estimating emissions and uptake in mangroves above the ground so carbon stored below the ground is not included yet that would of course trigger enormous payments if that could be included and we are open to looking into that certainly but that requires a lot of work on the Indonesian side and I think in our partnership it has been agreed to focus now mostly on the peatlands in the first part and then medium term also looking at more of the blue carbon and in the meantime I think I just want to commend some of the provinces and maybe East Kalimantan to start with because they are taking this work further when they are developing their first carbon partnership facility program they are working hard on mangroves as well which could potentially buy if they are able to reduce the uncertainty in the uptake on carbon in the mangroves they can of course also trigger larger payments so this is an incentive for the province and for the national government as well and very happy to see that East Kalimantan is working so closely with the ministry on this because this can hopefully serve as a pilot for when we are taking the partnership to the next stage so then finally what is the future of the lateral intent that is not up to me to say that is up to the politicians I think to decide upon but we have a hope that we can do as we did in Brazil where the first billion dollars was transferred into the Amazon fund where the funds were used and invested in reducing the deforestation and the emissions further and then our parliament provided additional funds so that we are now in the second phase of that partnership and that is of course our hope here at the embassy as well for the future cooperation, thank you Okay I'll continue, I think there are two questions that are related so I tried to address the first one is on the economic value of the fisheries in North Korea if I'm not mistaken actually the pictures are taken from West Papua in Bintuni Bay but in terms of the exact value I don't have exactly the numbers but I can just give you an overview so you can get an estimate so this is very let's say like a populated area it's only our target project site only about 1200 people live there and their main target fisheries are shrimp crabs, swim bladder from the baramundi or snappers and also the flying fish eggs all our commodities are very expensive and we already did the survey and study so we can share further with you if you are interested to know how much money that the local community get from these fisheries and then of course we can also see through the super chain who will get the most benefit there in the margins that they get from this seafood product trading here so that's in term of the value and then as I mentioned that we are soon to publish our state of the sea report and then we have information data from it's our project sites it will be available in October during our oceans conference and then we do also public scientific report if you want to learn more about the fisheries in our target areas and then I think in term of the donor working on the promoting sustainable use of the natural resources probably I give an example from the forestry arena this is from our work together with the nature conser Fancy, I think TNC Parizel already explained in the morning and then to promote sustainable use and then come up with the better policy we need a good data so right now we are quite confident for example for our work with the TNC on the snapper and grouper because we've been collecting the data for the last three years right now and then we cover quite a huge areas of Indonesia probably can be representing around 30 up to 60% right now in term of the snapper fisheries Indonesia and then what we use then the data can then tell both the regulator the government and also the private sector part because from the data that are being collected right now we analyze the data to see whether the fish stock is still healthy or not whether they are catching small fish, different fish, big fish which one they should actually catch from the water so we can work both with the regulator, with the government and also with the private sector along the supply chain that we are working with so that's an example in terms of the promoting sustainable use of fisheries resources ok, thank you Pa JJ, let me start my closing remark back about 10 years ago then the minister of marine affairs and fisheries just came about in the sexy term and he asked how much carbon that Indonesia has because in his mind free with that amount we can start doing this carbon market go into the market and start selling our carbon from the mangroves and the seagrasses back then I didn't know I wish I known I don't know now I have to ask Daniel again but from what I've learned from this expert we have some ideas like how much but again the idea of talking about blue carbon in terms of carbon market I think we have to put that as a second third priority number one issue for us is I think the conservation how we can stop eliminate the rate of declining of these ecosystems that's number one we are still bragging with our you know coverage of mangroves seagrass in Indonesia but we have to we also are not doing good job in protecting them so for from the point of view of the partners number one issue and this is actually answering some of the questions Emily and the gentleman over there is about the sustainability and the obstacles is we have to look at as an integrative comprehensive issues when we talk about blue carbon we cannot just talk about mangroves we have to think about the seagrasses in Indonesia let me ask the scientists who are here exactly how much seagrass that are still left in Indonesia I got you know I asked 10 people I got 10 different answers we can easily relatively speaking ask them how big the mangrove coverage that's what we can see if you go to Maluku where Ibuseli's project with the small trawlers they can just wipe out this entire seagrasses ecosystem one indicator I've been working in Maluku for decades now we don't see any dugongs less and less dugong is one indicator species indicator where you have seagrasses now the dugongs are gone so well that's one thing well now we are talking about carbon counting how much carbon above ground and we talk about blue carbon yes we have to do it comprehensively but also when we do the scientific yes you have this environment of the scientific information the data but for Indonesia I think the regulation, the policy must also be advanced in terms of bringing all these players not just the protectors of course but also working together within the country but also bilateral or multilaterally with other people this is what we as we sit here so we think what I think the most important one is to have these two prongs the scientific issues we heard from Henry about how Indonesia is gaining outside at the COP co-op meetings where we have all the potential but also inside within Indonesia government we have to do that so we must take this as a comprehensive issues when we deal with this ecosystem we cannot left out the people who live there because we cannot just say well guys you cannot cut the mangrove trees and see grass but for what alternative so I think this is more of the activities that I've been hearing for Iboselli to to help the community for their livelihood and with that we can see like how much resources have been allocated to help the communities for for conservation but this is where I think we need to think about the community but of course as a government with the public and also the ecosystem we have to put them together I'm glad that by Marcel mentioned by Madryl he's here Babanas has been putting this low carbon development initiative so I think with and well I know this is intersectoral issue but if we talk about the development and intersectoral issues we need to put them together and we'll be talking in the next session so I'll invite people to come and listen to by Madryl's talk so with that thank you very much for this opportunity I'll try to be shorter now Luke Arben again it's a very nice kind of name but don't think about it as just carbon I think the key value in the coastal ecosystems is in their huge productivity they are the most productive ecosystem in the world and therefore they need to be cherished and so it's for the livelihoods of the local communities the fisheries, it's the wood production it's the resilience that they create for the coastal landscapes that's where the value lies and carbon can be used maybe as one little element in it maybe it can be easily quantified and can be discussed therefore as a means to say how much is this worth in terms of dollars the real value lies in the social and the socio-economic value for the local communities I think as a closing remark I would say that I'm now one year here with the Global Green Growth Institute and I'm extremely encouraged to see what is happening in Indonesia in terms of the major progress that is being made towards sustainable development planning you mentioned the low carbon development initiative Indonesia but it's not just the kind of a study it's actually mainstreamed already in the midterm planning process the RPGR men the background studies ask for kind of green growth inputs for my organization for many other partners this comes from the forestry sector in Bapinas and from the Ministry of Environment and Forestry itself it comes from energy it comes from Ministry of Economic Affairs especially economic zones are being looked at now as opportunities to pilot green growth development a lot of these things are or these areas are also based in the coastal zone like Bitung, it's a major fishery special economic zone they're looking at how they can green the development of that special economic zone not just in terms of the fishery but also the whole urbanization that's happening and linked to that so that integrated planning, looking at sustainability issues daring to look further than just five years of planning but taking this further 40, 2045 I think that will enable the government and all the stakeholders to take into account what actually both the positive and the negative impacts of current development plans are and how it could be modified to optimize this to the better future of Indonesia thank you very much Thanks by Marcel give applause again for our speakers but before we are really closing this session allow me to make a very short conclusion with seven kind of concluding notes the first one we witness today that the donors if they don't want to call donors we call them the development partners whatever they call it they are very important partners in this issue all of them consider a blue carbon not only a blue forest but blue carbon to make sure that we don't stop at mangrove we need to go deeper to sea grass maybe also to the ocean because they are really a complicated food web so it's always related to each other they are significant issue and need to need a serious attention second blue carbon based on this discussion today is not only related to carbon sequestrations itself but also related to likelihood, economy, fisheries etc including any other associated ecosystem services number three we do still need a lot of science on British BC is supposed to be also British Council BC a blue carbon we need a strong science a lot of expression needed for example if we lost percentage of mangrove what is equals to equals to millions of cars and fuel and so on I think this need a lot of sciences and also strong data on related to blue carbon issues number four of course we need to have as discussed in the first session we need to have a stronger policy of framework, governance so the Bapenas already mentioned about the need for a strategy framework and I think this is hopefully become part of the middle term or RPGM national RGM number five it is understand that blue carbon not only as a for mitigation for carbon sequestration but indeed it also need adaptation strategy because it is already degraded so we need to have both mitigation and adaptation at the same time number six of course we need participation we need a more broader participation from all stakeholders not only the government not only the development partners but also NGOs university and many other societies the last but not least we need to have a much better what we call a financial architecture for blue carbon we need a bigger one we need a more strategic and the last but not least we need it sooner not later thank you and this is the end of our session today please and thank you for your participation I will go back to the conversation