 Okay, my name is Michael Collins, and I'm the Director General of the IIEA, the Institute of International and European Affairs, and I'm pleased, very pleased indeed, to welcome you all for this IIEA webinar, which is co-organized with the European Parliament Liaison Office here in Ireland. With the deadline for extending the UK's post-Brexit transition period now passed, negotiations between the EU and the UK have taken on, obviously, a new urgency. MEPs will have a vital role to play in the process, as an agreement on the future relationship can only enter into force if it is approved by both the European Parliament and the European Council. We're absolutely delighted this afternoon to be joined by David McAllister, MEP, Chair of the European Parliament Foreign Affairs Committee, and Chair of its UK Coordination Group. David has been generous enough to take time out of his schedule to speak with us and to be with us this afternoon. David is an important German and EU voice with a distinguished career in EU and German politics. He has been an MEP since 2014, and has been a Vice President of the European People's Party since 2015. He has held a variety of political offices in Germany, including Minister President of North Saxony, and we at the Institute of International and European Affairs were delighted to welcome him previously in November 2016, a lot of water under the bridge since then. David will speak to us for about 15, 20 minutes or so, and then we will go to your Q&A. You will be able to join the discussion using the Q&A function on Zoom, which you should see on your screen. Please feel free to send your questions in throughout the session as they occur to you, and we will come to them once David has finished his presentation. If you would like to tweet, and we would encourage you to do so, please use the handle at IIEA. It's just a reminder that both today's presentation and the Q&A are on the record. With that, David again, a very, very warm, cavemen of falsia, 100,000 welcomes to Ireland to the IIEA. Thank you for joining us, the floor is yours. Okay, thank you, Michael Collins, and thank you, ladies and gentlemen, for participating and showing interest. I'm happy to have the opportunity of this conversation, which takes place during the fifth round this week of the negotiations on the future EU-UK relations. Now, you all, especially in Ireland, followed with great interest for high-level meeting on the 15th of June. Both sides, at that time, agreed to inject new dynamics in the talks, or as the UK Prime Minister put it, to put the tiger in the tank. Now, since this high-level meeting on the 15th of June, the negotiators and their teams have met three times, once for a restricted round of negotiations in the week of the 29th to the 30th of July in Brussels, and twice for two specialized sessions that took place in the weeks of the 6th of July and the 30th of July, all in preparation for this fifth negotiating round, which has now started on Monday. In my opinion, and I think my opinion is shared by many of my colleagues in Brussels, the European Union is engaging constructively and in line with the mandate entrusted to the European Commission by the Council with support of the European Parliament, and let me add, fully in line with the political declaration, everything that this declaration was negotiated line by line by the EU and the UK government is contained in the EU strategy. However, not everyone in Brussels is of the opinion that the UK government is showing the same level of commitment, may I add, unfortunately. Core divergences remain between the two sides on governance, the level playing field and fisheries, and we will have to see if this fifth negotiating round will bring a major breakthrough. Now, Michael Collins already mentioned the role of the European Parliament. The European Parliament's resolution in these negotiations is clear. In June, we voted with an overwhelming majority, a resolution on the negotiations for a new agreement with the UK with 574 votes in favour, 34 against, and 91 abstentions. With this resolution, with this report, we proved that the Parliament continues to stand united behind the chief negotiator, Michel Barnier, and the mandate given to him by the Council and fully in line with the political declaration. Today, I would like to focus on three main issues. First, the implications of a nodial scenario at the end of the transition period. Second, the progress, or rather the lack of progress in the ongoing negotiations. And third, the implementation of the withdrawal agreement, and in particular the protocol on Ireland and Northern Ireland. Now, on the first point, whatever is agreed or not, there will be a significant change as of the 1st of January. Even if the European Union and the United Kingdom conclude a highly ambitious partnership, covering all areas agreed in the political declaration by the end of this year, the UK's withdrawal from the EU are key. The internal market and the customs union at the end of the transition period will inevitably create barriers to trade and cross-border exchanges that don't exist today. It is the UK government that has decided that a chosen form of partnership with the EU will be based on a free trade agreement and not on any close of form of association, such as a customs union. So the EU's message to businesses in the EU 27 member states, I think I'm talking less about Ireland because you are fully aware of all these consequences, but the message of the EU to businesses in the other 25, 26 member states has been very clear, as of the 1st of January next year, the trading situation between the EU and the UK will completely change. By its nature, a free trade agreement will never be equivalent to frictionless trade, as we stated in paragraph 32 of our European Parliament's resolution. There will be broad and far-reaching consequences for public administrations, for businesses and citizens as of the 1st of January next year, regardless of the outcome of the negotiations. If an FTA is concluded, the changes might be less stark, nevertheless the administrative solution for customs, sanitary, phytosanitary, and other product-compliant shakes will be completely different since the UK will become a third country. Two weeks ago, the European Commission issued a communication on readiness at the end of the transition period. I know from many talks with the Commission and with Michel Barnier that there are still a number of economic operators that are not fully aware of the consequences of the EU leaving the single market and the customs union, therefore the Commission's recent update of the readiness and preparedness notices is essential to avoid serious disruption at the end of the transition period. In parallel, the European Commission is reviewing and, where necessary, updating all original 102 stakeholder preparedness notices published at the time of the withdrawal negotiations, many of which continue to be relevant for the end of the transition period. Of course, the European Parliament will continue to be involved as a co-legislator in adopting any necessary contingency measures and accompanying legislation that would ensure that businesses continue operating with a high degree of legal certainty as of the 1st of January, whatever the outcome of the negotiations might be. We stand ready to act very fast. Now, businesses will need time to prepare for the changes to the customs, regulatory and VAT excise regimes, but the full application of the protocol as of the 1st of January 2021 necessarily implies. For businesses in Northern Ireland, and you are very well familiar, this will include the introduction of customs procedures and formalities for goods entering Northern Ireland from Britain and for goods leaving Northern Ireland for Britain, the introduction of regulatory checks and controls, including sanitary and fighter sanitary controls for goods entering Northern Ireland from Britain, the introduction of prohibitions and restrictions and respect of goods entering Northern Ireland from Britain and for goods leaving Northern Ireland from Britain, and many, many more things. So this will also mean a major change for Northern Ireland. To avoid disruptions of business activity, the UK should urgently engage with the business community in Northern Ireland as businesses there must be able to prepare for the new requirements well in advance. The commission services have stated that they are available to provide any assistance that may be required. Now, the second point, the progress ought to be more precise for lack of progress in the negotiations. The meetings of the chief negotiators and their teams in various formats over the past three weeks haven't achieved the desired success. The UK government unfortunately didn't match up to the level of commitment of the EU side to look for a solution for the most sensitive areas. I still hope to see concrete progress at this next round of negotiations this week. We are witnessing, and still now, no real advancements from the UK side. The clock is ticking to reach a deal in the interests of our citizens and businesses. At this stage, the UK side needs to make real and concrete openings. Otherwise, the negotiations will remain at a standstill despite efforts to advance. As a European Union, our position remains based on the political declaration to continue to insist on parallel progress in all areas. The European Parliament was very clear once again in our latest resolution that we will continue not to accept any form of the famous cherry picking. Parliament's position is that we are ready to agree to an ambitious, modern and wide-reaching FTA with the UK, but it is conditional on first, comprehensive binding and enforceable provisions related to the level-paying field. Second, the agreement must include a complete, sustainable, balanced and long-term fisheries agreement, and third, a robust, single, coherent and solid governance system as an overarching framework with the Court of Justice of the EU as the sole interpreter of EU law provisions. There is no other third country to which the European Union has proposed a fully tariff-free, quota-free trading deal. This is exceptional. However, this comes at a certain price. This has to be accompanied by level playing field provisions. In terms of WTO rules, the EU can only justify this access by corresponding obligations. Otherwise, other third countries could request similar market access from the EU. To be very clear, and I'm often on British media and sometimes criticised for this, our rules are not dramatic. They are simply a guarantee to protect the interests of our businesses and our citizens against unfair competition. The extremely tight negotiations timeline that the UK government itself has imposed is another reason why the deal has to be with zero quotas and zero tariffs. Recent trade negotiations have shown that tariff-line by tariff-line negotiations could take several years, which simply isn't possible. The UK has voluntarily chosen to leave our single market and it is impossible that a third country has access to the internal market benefits without being subject also to its obligations. So, for example, issues such as mutual recognition of professional qualifications for regulated professions or unlimited freedom to provide services simply cannot be negotiated as part of a free trade agreement. Many integration mechanisms of the EU internal market exist benefiting companies and individuals to mention the most visible ones such as Roman regulation on mobile charges or harmonised mechanisms for authorising medicine products or chemical substances. However, only being a full member of the internal market can guarantee access to all these instruments. Now concerning the governance of our future agreement, the European Union stands strong behind its demand for an overarching governance framework which fully preserves the autonomy of the EU's decision making and legal order. The court of justice of the European Union in Luxembourg should be the sole interpreter of EU law. This is a constitutional requirement, not a negotiation position. The European Union cannot conclude an international agreement that refers to EU law concepts and rules, for example, on data protection, but which does not preserve the court of justice of the European Union's role when it comes to disputes on interpretation. If we don't cater for this in the agreement, we will all be in serious legal trouble. Moreover, an alternative dispute settlement mechanism could only be envisaged if it guarantees independence and impartiality to the CJEU in line with the case law. Of course, similarly, the agreement should not restrict the autonomy of the British legal system. And finally, my third point on the implementation of the withdrawal agreement. The implementation of the withdrawal agreement is crucially important for the negotiations for our future relationship. It remains the yardstick for the UK's commitment to the negotiations with the EU. A new partnership can only be built on the foundations of the faithful and effective implementation of the withdrawal agreement. Of course, I cannot address a mainly Irish audience without discussing the implementation of the protocol on Ireland and Northern Ireland. Very early on, the negotiations ahead of the UK's withdrawal from the EU, both the UK and the EU acknowledged the unique situation of Ireland and Northern Ireland. They agreed that a specific solution was needed to reconcile the different interests at place. The solution in the end was found in the form of the protocol on Ireland and Northern Ireland, which of course you all very well know. As not being Irish, but German and half British, I am very cautious regarding the implementation of the withdrawal agreement. And I can assure you that the European Parliament will continue to scrutinise this aspect of the negotiations closely. In the UK Coordination Group, we regularly meet with Maros Shevchovich to be informed about the natus rounds of the joint committee. And it's thanks to Irish colleagues like Maread McGinnis and Sean Kelly, that I am very well aware of the technical complexity and the political sensitivity of this issue. So I would like to just make four points clear. First, on the UK paper on the protocol on Ireland and Northern Ireland, the UK counterparts have shared a good cooperation spirit during the second meeting of the Specialized Committee that took place on the 16th of July. And some progress was recorded on technical issues, but there are still lots to be settled. If you want to move from aspiration to operation, such as customs procedures on goods entering Northern Ireland, the necessary IT requirements for the VAT system to be operational, and more importantly, the presence of the EU representatives in Northern Ireland. The issue of exit declarations is an old point of friction. The Irish protocol Preamble states that quote, nothing in this protocol prevents the UK from ensuring unfettered market access for goods moving from Northern Ireland to the rest of the UK's internal market. And the same commitment is repeated in Article 6. However, it is clear that this refers only to goods moving from Northern Ireland to Britain. The promise of unfettered access is qualified. So nothing in this protocol can prevent unfettered access for tech sales, but other obligations might, such as the EU's customs code, which requires an exit declaration. The second point on the need to have a detailed timeline of measures for the application of the Irish protocol. We continue to demand assurances from the UK government about what measures and detailed timelines it intends to take on the timely and efficient implementation of the Irish protocol. The protocol must be fully operational on the 1st of January next year. It is therefore of paramount importance for the UK to further intensify the technical engagement, to resolve all outstanding questions and to take the necessary practical actions without any delay. I am glad that at the meeting of the Specialized Committee that took place on the 16th of July, the UK has now engaged in technical discussions covering the full array of issues under the protocol. Now, third on the preparation of the important decisions that are due to be taken by the Joint Committee before the end of the transition period. The Joint Committee will need to flesh out some important decisions concerning the application of the protocol before the end of this year, such as further defining processing for the purpose of assessing that goods brought into Northern Ireland from outside the European Union will not be subject to commercial processing in Northern Ireland. Establishing the other criteria to be applied for considering that goods brought from Northern Ireland from outside the European Union are not at a risk of subsequently being moved into the European Union and very important for the EU, determining the practical working arrangements relating to the exercise right of EU representatives to be present during the activities of the UK authorities regarding the application of EU law. I think it's positive that the last week's meeting of the Joint Committee was constructive and the UK government has shown commitment to resolve these issues, still more needs to be done. And finally, I do hope that an agreement can be found quickly on all institutional agreements, such as the establishment of a technical office of the European Commission in Belfast. I understand that such a permanent presence is a sensitive matter as regards domestic politics in Northern Ireland. So the European Union should assure that we are talking about a simple technical back office and not a diplomatic presence. And finally, in addition to the Irish protocol implementation, the European Parliament remains very vigilant on citizens' rights issues covered by the withdrawal agreement. And this also of course matters for Northern Ireland. So to conclude on a positive or a cautiously positive note, I still remain hopeful that in the interest of companies and citizens on both sides of the channel and on both sides of the Irish Sea, we will manage to find an agreement and avoid the more serious disruptions expected in case of a no deal. This fifth and this sixth negotiating round will now be crucial. The ball is once again in the British court and we will continue to support Michel Barnier, who's doing an excellent job with his team for the Commission on behalf of our member states. Thank you for your attention and now I'm having to look forward to an interesting Q&A session. Thank you very much, David, for that lucid and very informative presentation. We really do appreciate the clarity of it and the firmness of it too. Just before we come to the Q&A, just as you say, you're half German and half British and I think I remember meeting you at one stage shortly after the Brexit decision in 2016 and just very mindful of this mixed heritage that you have. But just on a personal level, how difficult has this sag I've been for? Now, we don't just have the sag of this whole Brexit issue been for you on a personal level given your mixed heritage as a part. Well, thank you, Michael, for asking. Well, I'm 49 years old and married to my wife and I. We have two daughters and we live in a small town in North Germany. I grew up in West Berlin. My father was with the British military in West Berlin during his final posting before he got retired. And so I was born British and the British military hospital in West Berlin. But I also have German citizenship. My home country is Germany. We speak German at home with our children. But of course, I'm fully aware of my British heritage and I still hold a British passport like many others. But this is not only the case for people who hold a British passport. I am still very, very sad that the United Kingdom has left the European Union the first of February. There's nothing positive about Brexit. But we have to accept political reality. And now we have to make the best out of the situation. I have I know many UK politicians throughout all the different political parties, the Conservatives, the Labour Party, also a number of politicians in Scotland where my dad originally came from. He was born 1919 in Glasgow. As a German citizen with a British background and as a convinced European, I just still really believe that in the EU of 27 member states, of 28 member states would be better than 27 member states without the UK. But no country is hit so hard like Ireland. And that's why I really found it impressive how the other 26 member states have shown solidarity with the Republic. And your former T-shock, Leo Veradka, for instance, I know from many conversations with my Chancellor, Party Leader Angela Merkel, was very helpful in explaining her the sensitivity and the complexity of the Irish, Northern Irish order. So that's what I can tell you. I just do hope that we will find an agreement until the 31st of October because that is technically the deadline as Michel Barnier has pointed out. The UK will remain an important neighbour, an important trade partner and for my home country, Germany, a very important political partner in G7, in G20 or in NATO. Thank you very much for that David. I could ask you a question that's just come in here from Pat Cox, who's of course former member of the European Parliament. He's also an IAEA board member and as the former president of the European Parliament. And he says at this late stage are the only effective options a free trade area agreement with no tariffs and quotas subject to the conditions referred to or alternatively a hard exit based on WTO tariff schedules and how late is too late to avoid the WTO option? Well the UK has now decided that they will definitely leave on the 31st of December. They will leave the customs union the single market. Everyone knew that if the UK had requested to extend the transition period we wouldn't have said no but they have categorically ruled this out. Michel Barnier has several times said that for him, latest on the 31st of October, we need a ready text technically negotiated by the two teams. So this increases the time pressure which has already been enormous. The option is still that we want a comprehensive agreement with the United Kingdom with the free trade agreement being at its core. We want a single agreement with an overarching single governance framework. This has a lot to do with the experiences the European Union has made for instance with Switzerland where our relations are based on I guess now more than 100 agreements which has made things even more complicated. So we want a single comprehensive agreement and an FDA at its core and at its as its base. I would well it's always difficult to predict the outcome but I guess it's well at this stage nobody can predict if we will find an agreement or not. I try to point out in my initial statement that a lot now depends if the UK is ready to follow the commitments the UK government made and the political declaration that is the way forward especially now where we're under such enormous time pressure. If an agreement is not doable then we will have to prepare for a no deal and this will then mean at least at the beginning that on the 1st of January we will probably fall back on the WTO rules. This wouldn't be good for EU businesses this definitely wouldn't be good for Irish businesses. On the other hand this would also not be good it would actually be very bad for British businesses and let me just compare we will be exporting about 15% of our goods to the UK once the UK has left our single market whereas 50% roughly of goods will still go to the world's largest single market so it's actually more in the interest of the British side to get this agreement done and I do hope that British industry and British businesses will point this out very clearly to the government and the negotiating team on the British side. Very good David just if I could just put you back on to your on to German territory again just momentarily we switch back and forth as appropriate but just the level of preparedness and I think we've all been put on notice about the the need to prepare and prepare adequately for a no deal or for all eventualities in Germany at least my time there it had already been factored in you know that the Brexit was a reality and people had begun to act accordingly. How concerned would people on the ground and business people in particular as well as politicians obviously how concerned would they be about a no deal option it's obviously perhaps not as quite as problematic or catastrophic maybe as it might be for us but in Germany can Germany live with a no deal Brexit and how inconvenient would that be? Well the Chancellor Angela Merkel like many other representatives of the German government has always made clear that we would prefer of course to reach a deal with the British of course we want to put our future relations on a solid legal basis that is the way forward but you might have followed Angela Merkel's speeches in the Bundestag and also what she said on position the European Parliament she said in the moment she just cannot guarantee that we will find an agreement and she's always been outspoken that she's in favor of an agreement she's ready to compromise but it cannot be a compromise which will in the end violate fundamental principles of the European Union and our single market so as many other member states of the European Union Germany has also stepped up its preparations for a no deal outcome the specialty in Germany is of course but it's not only the federal level which needs to prepare it's also the lender level and as the former minister president of Niedersachsen which you mentioned Michael I know that for instance the government in Niedersachsen is also stepping up the preparations. German industry has always been clear that they are very very interested in having a as much as possible frictionless trade relation with the UK but even German industry the big organizations BDI and BDA have always said we are fully aware if a country voluntarily leaves the single market and the customs union things won't be as they were before and German industry has also been clear that for us in Germany it's important that the single market comes with four packages and that the four freedoms of the single market cannot be divided and in your language from the English language you pick cherries in the German language we pick raisins was seen and taken but to pick raisins in Germany is just as unpopular as picking cherries in Ireland very good and can I just put to your question from from John Hagen who's from Trinity College here in Dublin he says is there any truth in the rumor to the rumor that some in the quote-unquote inner circle at number 10 would be happy to have no agreement I know you have a lot of contacts at political level of the UK and that's just what I just interjected about myself but if this is so is this a worry or will the EU simply accept that reality and move on well I can't tell you anything about the inner circle of a tendowning street I'm a German Christian Democrat not a British conservative I just do hope that everyone who is responsible in London knows exactly what consequences the one or the other decision would have and I do believe it's better to have a deal than not to have a deal that's for sure the UK government is has the mandate to negotiate for a Great Britain and Northern Ireland and the European Union will try to convince our British counterparts in the ongoing negotiations what we believe would be beneficial for both sides but this has been stated so often and even though I don't dance I know that it always takes to tango and we will have to accept any British position the high level meeting on the 15th of June and I was able to participate at this high level meeting sitting next to the president of the European Parliament this high level meeting at least with one thing clear that we cannot go on like we did after the third and the fourth negotiating round that you have dozens of highly qualified experts sitting on both sides of the digital negotiating table but there's no progress on substance in the political sensitive issues this now requires a political leadership and it's up to the UK Prime Minister to take a decision whether he still is interested in getting this free trade agreement done our offer as I mentioned is unprecedented full access to the world's largest single market but this requires that the existing standards of the level playing field are implemented and these standards now exist in the UK and I think they've been also beneficial for the people of Great Britain and Northern Ireland that's why from our understanding this should be something the UK could be ready to accept and a final point don't underestimate the importance of fisheries not all EU member states fish in the North Sea in the channel and in the Irish sea but we have been very clear also as a European parliament that we want an agreement on fisheries to be a fully integrated part of the overall trade agreement we want to get done with the UK fisheries is of huge concern especially for the Netherlands, for Denmark and for France and you have followed the last few days at the European Council of Brussels how important the role is of these three countries and I think also if I recall correctly it was an issue that was to which Germany was indifferent either I mean despite the fact that the fishing industry in Germany would be very small industry overall I think some of it is within the Chancellor's constituency or state and you know it's not an issue without political significance and moment in Germany as well so you mentioned the three states obviously Ireland as well but obviously even countries like Germany it's a fisheries issue is still a very very sensitive political issue we have free fishery free fishing ports in Germany where British fish is landed one is Cuxhaven which is my home district the other one is Bremerhaven which is very close to my hometown and the third one is Sassanitz and Sassanitz in the Baltic is indeed in the constituency of Chancellor Merkel so Chancellor Merkel and knows quite a lot about how much British fish is caught by German fishermen it's actually I find it's still quite odd to give fish nationalities of human beings but I've learned now that we have to define what's a British fish what's a German fish amongst an Irish fish sadly so very good okay can I just ask you a question maybe you touched on it in your remarks in an event but from Neil Willoughby from the Ibeck which is the Irish Employers Federation he says thank you for your informative and clear presentation may I ask you please to comment on the issue of governance further for the comment further on the issue of governance and outline if and where you see the potential for a compromise on this issue and on the role of the ECJ is there room for compromise there on the issue of governance on the ECJ well as I mentioned one an important point not only for the Commission but also the European Parliament is that we want an overarching governance framework for the whole future cooperation with the United Kingdom there isn't much appetite in Brussels for individual single agreements with individual single governance structures and the European Court of Justice I mentioned in my presentation attending the high-level meeting in with Prime Minister Johnson on the one hand and Charles Michel Ursula von der Leyen and David Sassoli on the other hand I once again heard that the UK Prime Minister has totally ruled out any say of the European Court of Justice for British citizens and British businesses now we have to accept this position of the UK Prime Minister and obviously this is not only his position but this is backed by the conservative majority in the House of Commons but then we need to find a solution how we can find a dispute settlement mechanism and I was clear in my presentation that the European Court of Justice is the sole interpreter of EU law and the law of a single market and this is not a negotiating position this isn't a bargaining chip this is a constitutional requirement so if we include in the agreement any kind of direct references to EU law which of course would make things much more easy then this from my point of view as a lawyer includes that then the Court of Justice the European Court of Justice is the only institution which can interpret EU law I think that's I mean that's pretty much common sense now if the UK doesn't accept this then indeed we will have to find a dispute settlement mechanism like we have with in other trade agreements which will then be composed of British judges on the one hand and European judges on the other hand but of course also this kind of solution will have to respect the impartiality and the independence of the European Court of Justice on the one hand but of course of the British legal system on the other hand so this is a tricky issue but and it will make things more complicated but if the British side completely refuses to accept any further jurisdiction coming from Luxembourg then we will have to find an innovative solution David just the I think even the UK may have been a little bit surprised about the cohesion and solidarity of the 27 member states not just in backing Ireland but on issues in general in relation to the negotiating mandate and has there been any evidence at the level of the European Parliament of any kind of diminution or weakening in the solidarity the cohesion of the union and to what extent would the UK ever have hoped to be able to get in behind the the or through to the individual member states and maybe persuade them to to to break or to to to weaken this solidarity is there any evidence that that solidarity is any less strong now than it was in 2016 no I don't have this impression I think the European Union has showed remarkable unity of the 27 and this unity was also a precondition for until now as I'm keeping our position and to be very successful in these negotiations of course we have to compromise and we need to find consensus the European Union had to make difficult compromises already as regards to withdrawal agreement for the the UK to leave the European Union and so I still don't see any divisions between the member states there's been a high level of cohesion and for a good reason I mentioned that the European Parliament's resolution was adopted with an overwhelming majority in the end it was only a few dozen colleagues who voted against the resolution and 91 abstentions this shows in the European Parliament that the European People's Party the Social Democrats and the Liberal Renew and the Greens that these four groups are fully supporting the line of Michel Vanie and his team and if you look at the other groups we had some support some abstentions some no from the some votes against from the far left and from the conservative parliamentary group and the only ones who are against our report were the far right which isn't really a surprise because most representatives of the extreme right-wing parties in the European Parliament want their member states also to leave the European Union or at least they're not interested in a strong European Union if you look at parties like the Alternative for Deutschland or the Lega from Italy or the Rassaut Le Mans from France so no the European Parliament and the member states have shown full support and that's why this vote in the European Parliament was so crucial because of course this vote was an indicator how far the European Parliament is still standing behind the negotiator. The House of Commons found worldwide attention in trying to pass the necessary legislation for the British withdrawal the European Parliament was quiet in the first half of this match but the European Parliament will have the final word on any agreement we find with the United Kingdom and that's why the European Parliament's report on the ongoing negotiations in June is of course far-reaching and we might know that we won't be able to implement every single paragraph we adopted but it's very well worth reading not only in Brussels but also in London and issues like the implementation of the Irish-Novan Irish protocol or the implementation of the agreed citizens rights are very very important to colleagues not only those coming from the Republic. I think one of the concerns or among the many concerns I suppose would be that the agreement whatever agreement is achieved at the end of the day and people talk about very thin agreement being one of the possibilities there that thereafter you know the whole relationship between the EU and the UK could be very very could remain very very fractious and difficult awkward tempestuous indeed for quite some time to come so even if you do get agreement there is the prospect I suppose for a long time to come of a very challenging relationship between the UK and the European Union whether over the wider relationship or whether over specifically the Northern Ireland protocol which has many dimensions within it which are obviously quite complex quite challenging so I suppose the concern would be and just your comment on it even with an agreement how messy is the relationship going likely to be after the 1st of January particularly well obviously if there's a no deal it's going to be very messy but even if there's something better than no deal but a thin deal the prospect of a very very difficult awkward partnership relationship between the UK and the European Union in the broad sense but then specifically over Ireland as well. I'm not sure if you have the same proverb or saying in the Irish or English language we say in the German language if you button a shirt you have to get the first button right because if you don't get the first button right you can continue buttoning the shirt and it will never be positive it doesn't matter if you use rocket science or not. So the first button was from my point of view the withdrawal agreement which was in the end a decent compromise between both sides which made possible that the UK could actually leave on the 31st of January the European Union the European institutions but of course this was a Brexit mainly a name only and now the second very important button is now the agreement on our future relations but many many more steps will then need to be taken. Unsurprisingly I always love to quote my Chancellor Angela Merkel who I've been supporting all her political career and I think she's been a fantastic leader for our country. Angela Merkel said two or three days after the UK referendum in 2016 in the German Bundestag it skipped Keinen Grund gastig zu sein which would translate in English there's no need to be nasty. She said we're all sad that the British are leaving they are going to leave the European Union we all regret this but we have to accept this decision and now we have to make the best out of it and the British won't sail away to Newfoundland they will remain where they are exactly at the doorstep of the world's largest single market and with one land border with the Republic and we are in this together and perhaps even the harshest critics of cooperation with the European Union in London noticed in these last months what it means in these challenging times of a pandemic that you can get solidarity that you can get support that we're all missed together this pandemic has hit us all but it hasn't hit us all equally hard and that so many people in Germany like an island were so sad to see the high numbers of deaths in the United Kingdom and if the UK was still a member of the European Union the situation the UK would have also played a crucial role now at the European Council when we were talking about economic support the economic recovery plan but okay so to make it short the UK will remain an important trade partner for us an important I know I have to be careful talking about this when I'm speaking to an Irish audience but from a German point of view also an important NATO ally and we in Germany are fully aware if it comes to strengthening European defence and security cooperation we will want to continue our close cooperation with our British allies and friends by the way that's another reason why I find it so unfortunate that the whole field of foreign policy security and defence cooperation has not been included it's not part of one of the 11 negotiating tables but this was once again a British decision but perhaps after the first of January 2021 we could also put our future cooperation in these issues on a solid legal basis David now that you mentioned Angela Merkel by name let me just digress a little bit and maybe bring you back on to a German soil and a little bit on German politics as well as weaving in a little bit about the MFF and the and the the next generation EU fund just and all go over to one in the kind of the relatively limited amount of time we've left maybe to cover some of these issues but just Angela Merkel now is one year from from her from her her intended departures from German politics obviously you know she's been at the helm for for so many years now it's almost impossible for some of us to imagine what life was like before her so Angela Merkel will be leaving within the next year obviously elections I presume are scheduled for next September 12 months what is what is the chancellor's legacy if I may put it like that bearing in mind of course the achievements of the last number of days not the least of which involves at the major grant funding that's going to be available to deal with the pandemic which involves obviously the European Union or commission borrowing money which again is almost heresy I would have thought from from a CDU point of view but in any event what is the chancellor's legacy and second question to that is who is the next chancellor going to be uh dear now that's a very difficult question well first of all we Germans were following uh but it's not always that simple to form a government and elect a new head of government in your country I think Irish politics hardly ever been so much on German evening news uh and and Germans um followed with large interest out for the first time the two competitive parties in your country have now formed a coalition government it's perhaps similar to when the grand coalition was formed in Germany which was also at the beginning you couldn't imagine that Christian Democrats and social Democrats would sit in a government and now we've been sitting for so many years now the term of the German Bundestag will expire in autumn 2021 so Angela Merkel has another at least 15 16 17 months in office until her successor will then be elected by the German Bundestag Angela Merkel is in a very special situation that she for the second time in her career is presiding uh the presidency of the council I mean every 13 and a half years a country can manage this difficult task and Angela Merkel now has actually the possibility of doing this for a second time and of course this German presidency of the European Union will be an important part of her chance to ship the expectations are high let me add I think they're just too high there are some peoples in Brussels who believe that everything that has been left over since 2015 could now be sorted out by the Germans in their six months no no this won't be the case a presidency is always challenging it doesn't matter if you're a small a medium-sized or a large country the main issues for the German presidency apart from the ongoing EU UK negotiations will of course be the multi financial framework for the next seven years and the economic recovery fund my impression is and I was following just like you the negotiations very closely in Brussels that a remarkable achievement has been made who would have thought that just a few weeks ago the European Union the 27 member states could agree on such a hugely enormous package and considering at what odds the member states were when the council when the summit started in uh on Friday to put it in a nutshell the EU summit compromise from my point of view the recovery plan is a positive step forward and I think the European parliament which will be meeting for an additional plenary session tomorrow in Brussels you will hear a positive echo from most of the MEPs on the recovery plan we welcome this agreement the 750 billion euros recovery instrument but my take is not so positive yet for the long-term EU budget why because I don't believe that the European parliament will be ready to accept record low ceilings as they in the end mean renouncing to the EU's long-term objectives and a strategic autonomy and this in times where citizens are asking for more so if we talk like in Ireland like in Germany about more European solidarity more European action in health public health in research in digitalization in youth or in the historical fight against climate change or in more and closer cooperation on foreign affairs and even defense then it is from my point of view to be criticized that key programs to reach these objectives have been considerably shrunk and lost most of their top ups under next generation EU so it's a mixed picture the council will now face once again tough negotiations with the European parliament but one thing is clear we need to get an agreement before the end of this year so that all participants of EU programs have clarity from the first of January onwards so the council will now finalize its mandate to enter negotiations with the parliament the negotiations will be quite entertaining parliament will set out its conditions and take up negotiations with the German presidency of the council of the EU then as soon as possible but we need to get it done the sooner the better Excellent just one final question Hane and some for myself just you are to what extent would there be a level of disappointment and concern in the European parliament that there wasn't a stronger linkage drawn between the funding in the mff and the rule of law issue I mean maybe that's inevitable that I would ask that question but I mean I think there is a concern out there that maybe the the outcome in the end was weaker than than many people who have a who have concern about the rule of law issue might have wanted well it's interesting how the agreement on the rule of law has now been interpreted quite differently if you hear the statements from Budapest or Warsaw they're quite different to what you're hearing from Paris or Berlin and I'm pretty sure that this will play a major role in the debates in the European parliament the European parliament from my point of view will remain firmly against watering down the mechanism to reduce or suspend EU funding if a member state disrespects the rule of law this issue needs to be dealt with now it shouldn't be put off it needs to be addressed it needs to urgently be tackled and I'm very sure that the European parliament will also be ready to enter into co-negotiations under co-decision to continue building as I would call it a European Union of fundamental rights and values because what we have to make clear to all 27 member states is we are definitely more than a free trade area and a single market we are a union of values and a union of fundamental rights and I cannot accept if certain standards regarding the rule of law are not fully implemented and not fully respected in certain member states and this in the end must also have consequences for EU funding well thank you very much David we're in the IEA nothing if not efficient in terms of timekeeping it's now four o'clock in Ireland I know it's five o'clock where you are but I just wanted to draw these this the webinar to a conclusion if I can by just extending on behalf of a very extensive number of people who've tuned in to listen to us and to watch this afternoon say thank you to you for for bringing a perspective which obviously is you know you have you have that that that unique perspective in so many ways but thank you for sharing your thoughts with us and the the views from within the European Parliament we really do appreciate them the issue remains and all of these issues remain a deeply deeply topical here so we would look forward to welcoming you back again at some stage in the future maybe when we have after the first of January next year greater clarity in terms of what the outcomes actually actually is well thank you for inviting me and thank you for the large interest obviously this event has found and it was an honor by the way to have this conversation with you since you're one of the of the longest-serving diplomat in the history of the Irish front service and let me add you are an excellent representative of your great country in Berlin between 2013 and 2019 thank you David that's a great note on which to leave you so thank you very much indeed enjoy the summer break and thank you for the great work you're doing in the European Parliament thank you