 Hey, everybody. This is Christian Buckley with another MVP Buzz Chat. I'm talking to David John. Hello. Hello. Hi, Chris, and hi, friends. Well, for folks that don't know you, who are you, where are you, and what do you do? John Joyner here, and I'm a Microsoft MVP for Azure. That's why I'm here. The who behind the why. Gosh, I'm a retired US Navy Lieutenant Commander. I did computer stuff in the Navy. My last tour duty was a national network security officer for the Naval Bureau personnel, which maybe when we get later in my chat, it's going to tie in how my career has kind of come full circle back to cybersecurity, like a lot of IT professionals. But I started with cybersecurity in the forces and since retiring 20 years ago, I've had the pleasure of working for a single employer, the same one, a fantastic MSP, MSSP. We have had one M&A, so for the last four years, we've been using the accountability.com, accountability, or AIT, accountability with IT at the end. So it's not with the why, it's like accountability, IT, or just AIT. So that's my current provider, current employer, but it's been the same one for 22 years. And so I know I'm bridging out of introduction into like chat, but... No, that's fine, that's usually where we go. I mean, one, hey, congrats on being with a single employer. Like, you know how rare that's getting? We're in the big economy now. I'll tell you my secret, don't tell anybody. It's like have faith in Microsoft's roadmap, even when it gets bumpy in the short term, okay? So that's how I was saying, segueing from my career path to, or intro to career path or to history, et cetera. But it was through that work in the military because the military, in the Navy in particular, there were early adopters of Windows NT, Windows 95, Windows 2000, Exchange 2000, the defense messaging system, the replacement for the teletype-based communications method of talking with bases all around the world was replaced by Microsoft Exchange, starting in the 90s. So, and I was at the ground floor of that. And so I learned to trust Microsoft early and coming rolling out of the military, I just landed at a great place in the hometown of my dad, Little Rock, Arkansas, where I'm still I am. And what I learned in the military is a tour before the Bureau of Personnels with NATO. And that's where I learned my basic, most basic core skills, because what I learned from those guys has been like lasting me my whole lifetime. I'm telling you like, how have I stayed in the same place the same whole time? Because have you applied the same consistent principles using Microsoft tools? And whatever the Microsoft tools were at the time, using those principles, it's been highly successful. And those principles center around management and monitoring. You know, I was just gonna make the comment. So I was born and raised and started my career in San Francisco Bay Area. So in a very unfriendly environment to a lot of Microsoft, even though Microsoft of course is all over the place, but with all the startups community, I worked with IBM for years. I worked with a bunch of other high tech companies and I kind of found my way later in, so what, 12, 15 years into my career into the Microsoft world where I've been ever since. And I've had some friends that asked me very pointedly, like, are you gonna ever get back out and come back over into, there's so much happening in FinTech and elsewhere, but it's non-Microsoft technology. I'm like, no, I'm enjoying what I do. I like my company a lot. There's a lot of variety. There's, as you say, there is a roadmap for the products that I'm actively engaged. I can see based on what I'm doing today that I can see my retirement, that will be when I stop, you know? There's a- What a precious asset to any job. And there's hardly anybody outside of us, maybe Microsoft, Amazon and Google people that are attached to these really long term projects business concepts that are gonna drive technologies. So what are you, I don't know if maybe you've done this before, have you ever talked to like, you know, current college students or anything and given them recommendations or they've asked questions like, what do you recommend as far as the career path? So not just like, not the brands, you know, Microsoft as a brand, but the space, have you ever talked to them and given that advice? Well, now you're back into MVP territory if you didn't know, I asked part of my MVP portfolio as a community service every year, every two years I teach a pro bono course at the University of Arkansas in cloud computing and management and have for 12 years. So I've done seven teachers of it. And yeah, I am actively involved in that aspect. You know, also through the University of Arkansas we have a hackathon, a blockchain hackathon that I've been able to participate in twice, meaningfully, you know, because as an Azure MVP, I am very familiar with Azure microservices by Event Hub and Log Analytics and, you know, Azure Automation, anomaly detection, machine learning, technology and that any blockchain solution can be enhanced with automation and security and monitoring that I can bring, you know, and so it's been rewarding working with University kids at all levels, you know, totally on board with that, good question. I know there's a lot of interest in the younger crowd into the blockchain and specifically on the crypto side. I mean, honestly, I was never that passionate about the crypto and, you know, and basically the investment, the people, the frenzy that happened around that side of it, although I've got investments that are like a lot of us. But blockchain as a technology is something that is, I mean, fascinating. I don't know, were you involved at all with Microsoft's foray into the space? And I know that they've kind of shut that down. No, I wasn't. I tell you what I was, was I was, you know, from the cybersecurity side, I was involved in detecting people using their Microsoft resources in an unauthorized fashion for mining and other activities. Oh, yeah. No, I haven't invested personally deeply into the sector, but I really appreciate the logic of blockchain, you know, almost like, you know, quantum cryptography depends on the data not being observed because the act of observing changes the state, right? Just like blockchain, blockchain is self-evident. Like if you don't have the whole blockchain and it's not accurate, you have nothing. So it's very futuristic. I love it. The downsides are the energy consumption part. It makes me a little uncomfortable, but I'm excited about it too. I think stuff like blockchain and like cryptocurrency is the future. And I hope we, as a society, overcome the negative resource consumption of the current model because the rest of it, I think it's perfect. Wait, think of like the concepts around that. I know we're going on a little bit sideways, but some of the concepts around it, like I was introduced into the concept was through like a lot of people online, you know, virtual games and the interaction of virtual dollars, coins, whatever it was with, you know, fiat currency and being able to move things around and build up currency in the virtual world and turn it into actual real currency on the other side, selling objects, selling things. I mean, NFTs are a big thing where they were before they fell back down. But- No, I get you, I get you. But the transactional, so a lot of the things like even, I think it's impacted the way that we think about even like finance and investing, the ability to go in and buy an increment of a share rather than an entire share, you know, those kinds of concepts came from that world, from that line of thinking. And then of course, you know, that then democratizes a lot of, you know, a lot of areas of investing in real estate in, I think it's gonna change advertising, online advertising platforms and things that are going to allow you to do kind of, you know, micropayments, you know, across systems in a trusted manner, in a fully automated manner, just things that 10 years ago were, you know, impossible to go and build. So- Exactly. This is, again, it's not my space. I think it's very exciting, you know, watching that kind of happen. But that's the kind of thing where it's that if I were a soon to be graduate that's interested in technology, but maybe has a finance or business background, there's a lot of opportunity in that area. I agree, I would first steer them towards cybersecurity and identity management. If you wanna do something for the next 50 years, no matter what happens, as long as there's a society that keeps, that maintains or keeps going, those two, I think those are gonna maintain. And if you wanna specialize in a technology blockchain, is probably, because that includes encryption, that includes scaling, that includes all of the architecture elements that we, that the Microsoft cloud supports too. So, my work with the university kids showed me that at Microsoft there's a lot there, we interoperate well with crypto based solutions and it's blockchain solutions. The solution doesn't have to run on Azure, but Azure can monitor it and secure it and manage it and report on it and back it up, stuff like that. I think, yeah, I think there's a lot of companies, I mean, my company certainly believes this as well that, so we are a multi-cloud vendor, yet at the core of all of our solutions is on Azure. So it's exactly like I said, that I think Microsoft is set themselves up to be able to interact with their direct competitors and be able to have a story. Amen. Amen. Honestly, when I posted this MVP award in my social media, I have friends, I have old shipmates from the Navy that aren't involved in any of this stuff and they're like Amazon people and they're like, for years, they've been able to heckle me about Amazon. But this year, I told them, hey, you can run your stuff in Amazon, that's great, but look at what we can do for governance. Look what we can do for security. Look what we do for monitoring. Look how we integrate with service providers, like using Azure Lighthouse to monitor those things for you in like an absolutely world-class security model. There's nobody can touch it. Yeah. So I had a great comeback for those guys, and they were speechless. They gave a heart react, I don't know. Well, that's, again, it was an intentional move when they started talking about that. I mean, again, it's not my space. I worked in the collaboration productivity world, so we just got rebranded as M365. Yeah, I know, I saw that. How do you feel about that? Well, M365, that's your new title. And you look at the difference between, I mean, it's Office with the Office apps and of course SharePoint Online and Teams and those kinds of things. And Microsoft 365 includes security and Windows is part of that. But more and more, when I have conversations with people about the productivity suite, it includes all of those pieces. So it makes sense because that is already, like our world got bigger. So I was expecting a rejiggering of a lot of the names, the buckets for MPs. And so it's, of course, we see that every couple of years, there's a shift, there's a consolidation, there's an expansion in other areas. And I'm glad to hear that you appreciate the strategic value to it. Cause when you put it that way, I didn't really know how you'd feel. But for the way you explained it, I totally agree. From architecting security solutions for companies, I see the fact that like the Microsoft people selling the base licenses are different from the Microsoft people selling the add-on licenses. And so like the security services that come bundled in the add-on licenses, competing sales stack to the, and don't even get me started on business premium. Right. So yes, there's a lot of help needed in that area. Good. Well, I like that Microsoft has never really cared about how MPPs kind of identify themselves with the products underneath. There's still people, I know a woman who's just like, I'm a PowerPoint MVP was one of the first ones. And I think she's like 24, 25 years as an MVP. And that's what she focuses on. I know another gentleman out of Portland area who's an Excel MVP. And that's how he pitches. I started as a mom MVP. I was one of the few mom MVPs that's on my first certificate. And then I was a scum MVP for a couple of years after that. So for that, I think the first three years I was also tied to a product. And those were the golden years, frankly, of the MVP program when the product teams were that specific and matched with such a small group. We met in little conference rooms of 20 people and we had the entire product team and the entire MVP team, it can't be like that again. It was a really amazing time. Well, there's pros and cons. It was, of course we've not done, it's been a couple of years since we did the summit and I hope that we're doing it again next time. I started as a SharePoint MVP to your point. We always were somewhere away from the crowds, the masses of MPPs at the MVP summit and the SharePoint people were in a group. You guys had your own, you had, you guys saw it. You had your own conference. Right. Yeah. There was so much that was going on. Right, right. And so what happened a couple of years for folks that aren't aware of this, it's basically like with the MVP, some of the last two times, it was more like going to college and what electives do I want to take? I've got my core that are part of this and I'm associated with this, but there were other formerly SharePoint MVPs in the group, people that I know well that I actually saw two people at the airport as we were leaving at the end of the week. Like, where were you guys? Like, I was doing Azure stuff. I was over with the exchange people. I was doing the collaboration. So it's different. I do miss the old, the core group being together and to end them coming to us and it would be more intentional. I don't know on your end with your discipline, but some of my disciplines specifically the Microsoft security stack is Microsoft has a really excellent, like I guess private preview program, pre-release, early access. Back in the day, they used to call it the tap. You know, and so it's evolved into this new, this community that revolves around teams, private channels or Yammer, I assume and hope you're involved in that. I am on my side. And it's fantastic. It's the best direct communication mechanism I've ever had with product teams. So yeah, I miss sitting around the conference table, but it's not that the program is crappy. It's just changed and it's still really high value. That's certainly- And what we just talked about, there's more for us to go and focus on. Like I always tell them people that are new MVPs coming in, like there are, you know, the NDI calls that happen on a monthly basis, but there are some that are kind of broad program with kind of all the different pieces. There are teams only. There's a Yammer only. There's a OneDrive only. There's other special calls that are in there. I'm also sitting on like product councils and tapped in different ways. There's a lot that you can, depending on your role, that are, to your point, you know, we're part of TAP. We're part of a number of different programs as an ISV, my company, but then as individuals we're involved in a bunch of different things as well. So one of the, you know, here having just gone through the renewal cycle again, and I just earned my 11th MVP is I'm just so grateful to be part of this, to have that level of access to see and to learn about. I may not directly interact with much of what I learn about, but to see all the pieces and be able to go in and then comprehensively be able to step back and go, what do I need to go and focus on? It would be very difficult to do without being an MVP. I'll be honest, I would leverage other MVPs to do it. If I were not an MVP, I would just have to find some friends within the MVP community and watch them like a hawk. What are they working on? What are they talking about? Yeah, I saw that when one of the things, Betsy, our US MVP lead is been, you know, is mentoring, you know, finding new people to shepherd into the program is one of our primary ways to show value to the system. Yeah, I've been mentored one person and they're in their fifth year now as a CDM MVP and it's time I mentored another one. How about you, Christian? I have submitted a number of names, several that have become, there's some, I'm sure like you that I've just like, I don't understand why they're not in here, they do so much, but I try to identify those people who would do these kinds of activities regardless of status. And so there's, you know, as we were talking about, you know, some people that both you and I know that we're not renewed in this cycle, but are still gonna deliver the same quality community activities, still give back. So still work with those people, find more people that want to give to the community and help them along that path if that makes sense for them to be submitted. Yeah, the new kids that are comfortable with crypto, right, as you described, you know, this newer generation, they have a thought process that's evolved in a way beyond us older guys or people, which is like they are comfortable interchanging virtual currencies for real currencies and like that viewing things, not in the, not like just what's in my bank account isn't all my money. Yeah. You know, and it's a mature and an appropriate way to think and let's, you know, among the many talents that the newer generation has as they come on board as MVPs is like, it's new frames of mine, new ways of thinking, we need it. Exactly. I was gonna make the same kind of final point is that the, it's fine for people to come in as MVPs do and write about what is, talk about what is out there today, new releases, how you configure, how do you utilize those things? But you really need to be thinking beyond that. What else can you do? How does it scale? Where should Microsoft be going? And providing that kind of perspective, thinking about the new technologies, there's so much that's happening today. I mean, I wouldn't be anywhere else than in tech and I'm, I've got four kids and three of the four are so two were STEM kids, two on the business side, three have found their way into technology. Well, that's great. And by the way, congratulations on your MVP reward as well. Well, thank you very much. It's been a good day for us. Yes, it has. Well, well, John, I really appreciate, you know, one meeting you and chatting and hopefully we'll see you next spring if we, if the summit happens again. I'm so ready. When people want to find you, connect with you, what are the best ways to reach you? I'm John underscore joiner at Twitter. Why don't we just leave it at that? You can find me there in my, there's a link there to my blog and any DM I'll respond to. You can, I'm easy to find on LinkedIn as well, John, John Joyner, J-O-Y-N-E-R. I've been doing this for a long time. So I've got, I'll be easy to find. And I would, I love, I love out of the blue questions from like other professionals and MVPs. I don't know if you get something now and then Christian just like- I do occasionally. You know- People are shy. They think that they're bothering us as MVPs and I keep telling, I tell people all the time, MVPs are the most connected and most willing to chat. So reach out. Reach out. Thank you, Christian, for inviting me. It was a really nice time chatting about, about technology.