 Okay, good evening. I am going to call the town of Essex Select Board meeting to order for Monday, October 17th. Andy isn't with us this evening, so you have to bear with me. Up first editions, changes to the agenda to stuff of anything. None from stuff. Anything from Select Board. Kendall, anything? No. Okay. With no changes, we do not need to approve the agenda, so on to public to be heard. Public to be heard is a portion of the agenda for members of the public to raise concerns or speak to anything that is not currently on the agenda. We ask that you please be civil, please be brief. If you would like to speak, if you're in the room, just raise your hand. If you are online, please raise your electronic hand. It can be found under the reactions button on zoom, hit reaction, and then you will see raise hand. I don't see anyone in the room. I don't see anyone online. So seeing none, we will move right on ahead to our public hearing. Madam Chair, I make the motion that we open the public hearing and the public nuisance ordinance. A motion to open the public hearing. Is there a second? Is there any discussion on the motion? Hearing none. All those in favor of opening the public hearing, please signify by saying aye. Aye. Aye. And motion passes unanimously for zero. Okay. So in our packet, we did have a copy of the public nuisance hearing. Greg, do you want to give an introduction on what we're seeing this evening? Sure. So the public nuisance ordinance that's in your packet today represents a change from the last meeting you had. Basically, we've removed the aggressive hand handling section based on some additional research and feedback from the town attorney. We were hoping to be able to bring it up for passage tonight, final passage for the select board, although did some more research based on some feedback we got. And we should be going through and so the public nuisance ordinance, it's a new ordinance, but it also supersedes some other sections in the ordinance already. So those sections would be removed. So rather than passing it tonight, we need to make a list of those sections present them. We'll want the public hearing again. Bring it back for probably the November 7th meeting to consider final passage show. Those are the changes that staff has identified. Of course, if there's others from the public that the select board wants to entertain, we would wrap those in as needed. But from the staff perspective, it's just going back and cleaning up some of the other ordinances that would be the longer relevant this latest option. So since this is a public hearing, I'd like to go to members of the public first and then bring it back to the board. Are there any members of the public in the room who would like to comment on the proposed public nuisance ordinance? Okay, I am not seeing any online. I do see Lorraine Zulum. Your hand is raised. You have the floor. Thank you. Just a quick question. I just briefly read through and I saw that part annuity and I was just wondering if there was consideration to breastfeeding in public, as well as potentially someone wearing a G string at like, they were swimming at a break or those are the only two things I thought might be conflicting. I do see Chief Hogue online. I did ask about the breastfeeding question and was informed by Lieutenant Kissinger that state law would supersede the language in this ordinance so that would not be an issue. Jeff, did you have any input on the question of G strings? So, so first I first I apologize for not being there in person tonight. Lieutenant Kissinger and I are actually in Dallas, Texas at the chief's conference. So, the only input that I have is that that would be considered a bathing suit, technically, and I don't believe that that would be covered under this ordinance I believe that that would be an exception because it's showing the buttocks and not any of the other parts of the human body so. Thank you. Right, but it specifically says buttocks in that that's why I asked. It also be covered Lorraine. Any of Brooke has its own set of orders that describe what people should be wearing while in the park. Thank you guys. Got it. Next online I see Patty Davis. Hi, I just barely tuned in and something about G string so I whatever I missed you don't have to tell me it's okay. I just have a question about how recent in our hour up to date. What is dog ordinance is when it comes to to be specific because I did my research 4.0 4.0 50 which is dogs running at large penalty for violation and is it true it's a 1996 ordinance. Okay, this is a hearing on the public nuisance ordinance, but to answer your question very quickly. I do believe that we made changes and adopted changes to that ordinance. Last late last summer. Oh, great. Great. Okay. Because is this public comment or am I too late. It's it's the public hearing on the public nuisance ordinance. Okay. Okay, so I guess I better not say anything. My dog was attacked yesterday. That's also it's it's I just I just walked away because I don't know what to do. So I will lower my hand. Sorry to hear that Patty and thank you. Can I just give her some info on that real quick. Absolutely. If she hasn't done so have her call the police department will put in contact with the animal control people and they can walk her through doing a report for for the dog bite. Thank you chief. Any other public comment during our public hearing on the public nuisance ordinance. None in the room. None online. Nope. Nope. Margaret Smith. Hi, I'm I'm sorry the screen looks different today and I had trouble finding the hand raised raising section. I've been concerned for a while for the for the noise ordinance because in my neck of the woods the noise is getting worse. And so hopefully and I did leave a question for Lieutenant Kissinger on his phone but clearly he didn't get it concerning the the policy for mufflers that used to be you got a ticket if you didn't have a muffler or if it wasn't working right and now there's just an awful lot of cars going by that are really noisy. So, I couldn't tell from reading if that was covered. There was a lot of the chart about the amount of noise section e maybe residential receiving premises. So, table a, yeah, and and so I'm not sure I understood that but I'll have to ask somebody for clarification at an at a different time. Well, I think this would be a great time to get clarification since we are on the public nuisance ordinance. Okay. I was going to find the section chief. Are you chiming in. Yeah, so it'd be section be seven that would cover some of the mufflers like the back firing. The loud mufflers. They're coming from the factories the manufacturer of the cars. So we would be able to enforce those because those are something that is installed by the manufacturer same thing with some of the motorcycles that have a louder muffler. But we would be able to get a lot of the cars that rip their cars up to potentially cause their mother's backfire. We've had a lot of complaints about that I think that's where this ordinance would come in is to prevent those or address those vehicles that potentially cause their vehicles to backfire. So, I noticed that when cars are getting off of Alder Lane on to either root 15 or 128. Sometimes the traffic makes it really hard to find a gap to get, get off, get on to root 15. So the cars will. And motorcycles will gotten their engines. A lot. I don't know if that kind of thing is is a consideration. So that necessarily would fall under this this ordinance. Like I said, if it's a muffler that's DOT approved, there's nothing that we could really do about that. But the intentional act of causing your vehicle to backfire by causing a different compression would be something that we would address the that causes the exploding or rattling grading of a muffler when it backfires. Okay. Yeah, I'm, I'm, I'm not talking about that so much as as, you know, a lot of motorcycles and some cars just they just like to rev up their engines to make them sound big and important. And that often happens when cars are trying to get on to root 15. And it's partly a traffic issue. But so, so that's not a backfiring issue. That's just a loud engine noise. I don't know if I'm being clear or not. And I don't think that that is covered under this ordinance. It's only if the owner or the car has modifications that would cause that to happen. Okay, thank you. Lorraine, I see your hand up again. Sorry to bother you again the modified mufflers then because it sounds like Robbie just said do Rob just said DOT approved. Do we know if what's DOT approved for modified mufflers is it because when I'm just googling it looks like it's per state. Is it or that it's related which is also related to sounds and increasing sounds intentionally doing know what the law is on that. That's nothing Lorraine that as often we would be certified to do that's something that the Vermont inspections when they do their inspections would certify that those are legal mufflers installed. I'll give you an example like a loud muffler there are like the Dodge Chargers the Ford Mustangs. They have mufflers that are allowed intentionally from the manufacturers. And those are things that we would be able to to address. I took an aftermarket muffler that was modified and it did that that sound that sounds like a gunfire, you know that consistent gunfire sound. I mean how do you know when it's. So, so Lorraine the conversation that I had recently with with a DMV inspector in regards to inspection stations because this has been a problem that in the city as well is that the governor changed the rules a few years ago a couple years ago now where it is no longer a regulatory exclusion where someone who who goes in and has an aftermarket muffler on their vehicle. It is no longer an exclusionary thing to not be issued an inspection. It is now an advisory subject so that the inspection station can only advise them that their muffler does not meet specifications. So this is where we start running into somebody else asked about issuing tickets for mufflers and that type of thing. This is where we start running into problems as law enforcement because the officer can't verify what those, you know what the muffler is or anything like that without climbing underneath the car, and we're being subjective in that we're stopping that vehicle based on what we believe is a violation of not having a muffler or not standard muffler. So, what we have to rely on is an ordinance like this where the person is causing that noise, and we can see that that person is causing the excessive noise. So we're not focusing on the piece of equipment we're focusing on the behavior instead. Does that make sense. Yeah, so when I'm hearing something like that there's a couple of particular cars that I sit behind and it's you know when the light turns, it looks it sounds like it's intentional. It's consistent. It's just a certain time so that is controlled by the driver, if I'm understanding you right. Yeah, most of that can be controlled by the driver obviously they're either heavy footed or they're doing it in other ways where they're controlling that, you know that I'm not completely familiar with how those work, but I know I know exactly the ones you're talking about most of that is controlled by the behavior of the driver. A backfire kind of pop. Yes. All right, so that would fall under this ordinance. That is correct. All right, cool. Thank you so much. Yeah. Any other public input. Seeing none, I'm going to bring this back to the select board for discussion. Any comments or changes amendments that the board would like to see. And both go ahead. I would just make the comment that in section 6-11-050 where it speaks about public urination and defecation that if the town does not provide some sort of facility at their parks that you're going to have people doing that. And I would just note that I would also note that several towns that have fire ordinances allow open fires. Without a permit when the ground is no covered. So I would just mention that as consideration. Thank you. The public hearing first. Before you get on to the next item. Okay. Right. Any other input. No, I'm just reading the open fires. Yeah, it's just not very clear because I'm seeing what Kendall's saying now and I guess I read over it in 6-11-130. It's item C. So I wonder if there's. That's so the warden can say it's too dry. But I'm also wondering is if the warden can say it's winter and what would open fire? I don't know. I guess. I just realized that there, what I read that is that it says it shall. And a permit online using the manner online or in person. You can. You should be able to. In person as well. Right. I don't know if that's a type of. Pick up. I am. I believe that's a type of and we can probably correct that since we're going to have to bring it back anyways and just take out that first online. I'll look to the chief and Lieutenant Kissinger to confirm. But that makes sense to me. Good point. And then to Kendall's point too. I don't know if there's to be clarification there about. Enter burning. Additional burning. To be towards the warden rather than. It's permanent only for open fires. So. Yep. Good point. Any other input from the select board? I guess just a question. Would this. Change. Slow. Final passage. Next week. I think changing the fire section beyond just the. Leading the online first online I think. Adding something about. Burning during the winter probably would because I want to check with the fire chief and. At his take on that before we do something like that. Can we just. Go ahead with the with the typo change and then. Leave the rest of it. Unless something comes up that's adamant to be changed. Improve it. Yeah, we're going to have to warn it again anyways because we're going to have to delete those other. Sections for this. This is redundant. Creature redundancies. But I think that's when you make your motion you're going to. Assuming that's the motion you make tonight. You're going to make the motion to change. Don't give a passage with those changes. And I would be hesitant to make the change about. Open burning. Because we don't have the input from the fire chief at this point. So to get that and come back and then propose a change would extend it another. Additional meeting. But that does not. Yeah, that doesn't prohibit us from making those changes going forward in the future though. So. Hearing no other. So hearing no other input from the select board. I would entertain a motion to close the public hearing on the public nuisance ordinance. Make the motion that we close this public hearing. Second. Motion made and seconded. Any discussion. Hearing none. All those in favor of closing the public. Hearing please signify by saying aye. Aye. Aye. Motion passes unanimously for zero. Yes, chair. I'd like to make the. Motion is to select what passed the public nuisance ordinance, including the deletion of superseded sections elsewhere. And the municipal ordinances and authorized staff to warn a public hearing to consider final passage of the ordinance. On November 7th 2022 with the corrections afford mentioned. Second. Motion made and seconded any discussion of that motion. It's clear that the other discussions are there changes as discussed includes that deletion of the online thing. Yep. Hearing none. All those in favor please signify by saying aye. Aye. Motion passes unanimously for zero. Next up discussion about the negotiating or securing of real estate purchase or lease options. I believe that's going to be done in executive. It should be done in a meeting of the council committee of the city of the city of E6 B to six C discussion and potential action on the memorandum of understanding lease agreement. And municipal manage management agreement between the town of Essex and the city of Essex Junction related to the tree farm management group. In the packet there was a memorandum. background, the town sent over proposed edits to the city council after our meeting on October 3rd. The city council reviewed the edits on October 12th. Those responses were not included in the packet, but Greg, I believe that you have an update on those discussions. Correct. Just got the proposed changes from the city council last night. Ali and I had the chance to review them today. And as they're pertaining to lease agreements, we think those are best discussed in executive session. Okay. So I believe that takes us on to the consent agenda. Yes. Okay. Consent agenda, is there any discussion? Well, we didn't pull anything out. So I would entertain a motion to approve the consent agenda. I make the motion that we approve the consent agenda as presented. Second. Thank you, Don. Thank you, Ethan. Any discussion? I have a question. Does that include the minutes of October 3rd? It does. Okay. Thank you. Okay. Hearing no other discussion, all those in favor, please signify by saying aye. Aye. Aye. All those opposed? I will abstain. I will abstain as I was not present. Can you abstain without a conflict? I'm not sure about that. Kendall, you are able to vote even if you're not present on the minutes. Oh, I am. Yeah, you're on. Okay. Then I will vote aye. Okay. Thank you. Motion passes unanimously for zero. Moving along to the reading file. Board member comments. I'd like to thank Darren Shibbler for his wonderful years of service to the town and let him know we will miss him. Yes. Yes, yes. I second that he's done some awesome work for a lot of different paths in the town, I should say. And his vision is really one that I think aspects should stick with. And I have a second board member comment. Sure. I don't know if it's random down somewhere, but maybe we should have a clear understanding of what we can abstain from on the board when voting because I tried to abstain twice for conflict of voting for myself. I was told I had to vote but I'm able to find a ruling on what our rule is for voting. I believe it's in the meeting procedure. I'll double check the rules and regulations. And if it's not there, I would probably look to Robert's rules. I guess it had been changed too many years ago, but there would be some disparity in it. So I'm just curious where to find the next slide. That would be good to know in review. But I guess just a general reminder if you do feel that you have a conflict stated early before. Yep. And that won't that won't that won't lead you into trouble. Anybody else have anything? I would just note that we also lost a very valuable road public works crew. And I wish them well in their new position. Thank you, Kendall. I'll just put in a plug for the town of Essex newsletter that's in the packet today. This is the second edition that's out there. Just another way we're trying to get word out to to our public and our residents about stuff happening in the town. So please take a look, go up, register, sign up online. We also have hard copies out this month for the first time. Tammy Getchell is putting it all together. She's going to be distributing the hard copies at a few locations and then tracking to see where they get picked up so we can adjust accordingly. But just one more way for us to try to notify our residents about what the town is doing. Great. I like it. I did just want to point folks to the information concerning the 1% local option tax. There was a lot of public feedback on that recently. So please go ahead and read that section of the reading file. It does contain a printout that you can share with neighbors, local businesses, so on and so forth. And also board and committee vacancies, great ways to get involved. Check it out. After the reading file, does anybody have the motions up? I move that the select board enter executive session to discuss the negotiating or securing a real estate purchase or lease options in accordance with one VSA section 313A2 and to include the town manager. Could you also include the recreation director? In this one, too? It's the same. You're going for the same reason in both times. Thank you. Sorry. I motion made and second. Any discussion? Seeing none, those in favor, please signify by saying aye. Aye. Motion passes unanimously. I move that the select board enter into an executive session to discuss the negotiating and securing of real estate. Wait a minute. Don, I'm comfortable with you just making the one motion because both it's the same topic. Let's go say it's the same thing. All right. I'm sorry. We can discuss both topics under the discussion. I got it. I'm looking that way. I just said that. Okay. So will we be back? We may, depending on refund stuff, if there's, for instance, in the past, you've directed staff to send comments back to City Council. So that might happen tonight. So we will head upstairs and you don't need to stay. We will just, we'll huddle like we usually do.