 Good afternoon, ladies and gentlemen. I'd like to call to order the meeting of the City of Santa Rosa Design Review Board on April 18th, currently 432. Welcome, everyone. I would like to have a roll call, Patty. Let the record reflect that all board members are present, except for Vice Chair Hedgbeth. Thank you. And approval of the minutes. We have minutes from March 7th, 2019. Any corrections to the minutes? Comments? Seeing none, minutes are good. Board business. So we have two items to discuss on board business. The first item is the Waterways Advisory Committee, which has a design review board seat that is appointed. We did receive interest from a board member. Before we have official appointment, we're any other board members interested in serving on the Advisory Committee. Okay, then I happily report that Adam Sharon will take that seat on the Waterways Committee. So thank you, Adam. I greatly appreciate more volunteers. And those of you who are newer to the board, the Waterways will report out on some of the meetings in their Waterways discussions. And it will generally inform us on some design review items, mainly with site, et cetera, et cetera. So the second item of board business is that we, the board, are having a gathering after this meeting. And we're saying goodbye to our old members who have moved on. And we're saying hello to our old members, and we're saying hello to our old members who have moved on. We're going to have a little social gathering to get to know each other a little better. We don't discuss any board business. That's why staff comes with us. Make sure that we do not. Okay, I'd like to open it up to public comment. Is there anyone? I didn't read my board business. Sorry. Let me read the purview of this board. I'm moving on to public comment for any item that is not currently on the agenda, but would be under the purview of this board. Yes, sir. The hearing aid telecoil loop on. The question is about the hearing telecoil loop for those who couldn't hear the gentleman in the back. Shall we pause for a moment while we check on that? Okay. We're having technical difficulties, and have a five-minute recess and we'll reconvene at that time. Willard, how's it working? Thumbs up. Willard, can you hear me? Bingo. All right. Thank you all. Appreciate it. We're good? We're going to wait a second. One more second. We got one more piece of technical difficulty to work out. It's Adams. Okay, and we are officially back in action calling the meeting back to order. For those of you just joining us, we have made it through Agenda Items 1 through 3. We were just about to start a public comment on items that are not on today's agenda, but would be under the purview of the Design Review Board. Do I have any public comment for things not on today's agenda? Seeing no one approaching the microphone, I will close public comment for items not on the agenda. Item number five, statements of abstentions by board members. Are there any board members that need to abstain from this item? I don't know what Brett Cordenbrock. I need to, yeah, I need to abstain due to involvements in projects adjacent to and impacted by this agenda item. So thank you. I appreciate you following protocol and showing up to the meeting why you have to abstain. And hopefully we'll see you later. Are you going to come back after the item or are you going to come to the event? Okay, wonderful. We will see you there. Thanks, Brett. Anybody else need to abstain from this item? Give Brett a moment to exit and we will get on to our scheduled items. Okay. So we are on to scheduled items. Okay. So we are on to our scheduled item for US 101 bicycle and pedestrian bridge. And I will turn it over to staff for staff report. Great. Thank you, chair Kincaid and members of the designer view board. I'm pleased to present to you tonight a concept designer view for the US 101 bicycle and pedestrian bridge. As the designer view board is a concept design review item. This project will actually be presented by a combination of city staff from our capital projects engineering team as well as a design consultant that has been working with the city. I did want to say a couple things about this project. So it's a unique project. We don't get bicycle and pedestrian bridges very often. The other thing we don't have happened is a city sponsored project to come before the designer view board. So the typical protocol is that a city project does not go through design review. In fact, it's not subject to the zoning code. So tonight's review is a courtesy review. We are actually looking at that a little bit more closely to see if indeed this project truly will not come back to the designer view board or not. So we have a couple weeks to discuss that further. So I don't want to say that it will or won't come back to the designer view board, but I think as it stands now, the typical practice is it's not subject to design review. So this may be the last time you see it. I will keep the board posted though on any news related to that. Before I turn it over to the city staff that's been working on this project, I did want to introduce Chris Katbagen. He's going to introduce Chris Katbagen to our planning team. She'll be assisting me at the staff table tonight, and hopefully you'll be seeing her presenting items before you here in the not too distant future. So with that, I'm going to turn it over to Chris Katbagen. He's with the capital projects engineering team here at the city and he's going to introduce this item as well as introduce Chris Katbagen with the city's transportation and public works department. I am the project engineer managing the future Highway 101 bicycle and pedestrian bridge project. For over a decade, the city has been pursuing the proposal of a bridge which spans the Highway 101 for the northern half of Santa Rosa. Although the bridge improvement would be utilizing Caltrans right away, and the city is the project sponsor for this project. Currently, our design team continues to generate technical studies with a clear objective of obtaining environmental clearance for a project. As part of the environmental requirements in Caltrans project delivery process, we have been providing various studies for Caltrans review. So today we are looking to add to our technical studies based on potential feedback. Today our design consultant Chris Katbagen, the architect will show two bridge locations and present three different bridge structure types. I want to emphasize that none of these locations have been environmentally cleared. So we are specifically looking for constructed feedback in regards to aesthetics and the bridge structure type for both locations. With that said, I'd like to turn the presentation over to Stephen Grover from SGA and BKF engineering, Nathalina Bernardi. Thank you. Stephen has laryngitis, so I, the civil engineer, am going to make the presentation, so I apologize beforehand because I'm not as eloquent, but I'll do my best. Chris explained the project well, but I just want to give a little bit more context. The project is meant to provide a crossing over 101 of pedestrian and bike crossing between the steel avenue interchange of 101 and college avenue interchange. If you ever traveled either interchange, it's very congested and it's not safe for the casual bike rider or the pedestrian, so this is actually a very important improvement, one that the city and Stephen actually have been working on since 2007. Here we have an area map of the location that we're proposing the over crossing, the bridge. In 2007 through about 2016 several alignments were assessed in terms of the best location in order to situate the bridge. There was actually three alignments that were evaluated, one in the northern location at Edwards and Elliott. That's on the north side of Santa Rosa Junior College. Second location at Jennings Avenue which is a little further south and that one there actually would have touched down at Armory and then also the most southern alignment at Bear Cubs way which is Straddles actually Santa Rosa Junior College and Santa Rosa High School. The intent here was to provide connectivity and complete the bike pedestrian circulation between Medicino Avenue and the Smart Railroad corridor which has since come into fruition. Now the Jennings alternative was discounted and is no longer an alternative that we're looking at due to the impacts in the residential neighborhood. A year is a larger of the area that shows the transportation network in terms of bikes and pads and how the particular connections the two locations that we're looking at would advance the connection and the transportation element. Getting those from the east side to the west side and making the connections to the Smart Railroad corridor. Additionally it's important to note that the project is in the 2012 North Santa Rosa Station area plan. So it is an element that's seen as being important to this particular area. As I mentioned we've been working on this project since 2007 with that there's been a feasibility study that was completed in 2010 as shown here on your left and also a project initiation document that there is a document planning document that is a Caltrans type document that was completed in 2016 signed by the city and Caltrans. So Caltrans does see this as a viable project moving forward. With the completion of that planning phase we are in the environmental documentation phase. So we're not into detail designs but we are designing up to a point so we could do those technical evaluations in terms of environmental considerations and impacts. So the geometrics have been established for each location and now we're also looking at the bridge type crossing 101 and also crossing its spanning Armory and Cleveland which are located on both sides of 101. In looking at the bridge type we've been very considerate of the architecture that's appropriate for the city of Santa Rosa and for this particular location. Additionally we've had several community meetings and what we've heard from the community we're taking into account and basically what we've been hearing time and time and that's been the most important aspect of their emphasis. I'm sorry. Some key considerations in determining the type of the bridge that we'll be proposing across 101 which is really why we're here before you is the alignment. When we started with the feasibility study we were looking at alignments that were not in particular to 101. We're actually skewed and what that did it limited the type of bridge types that we could construct. Now with the straight alignment in particular at Edwards and Elliott what it does it allows us to build certain time of bridges that could be supported in a straight alignment. Additionally utilities if you've been to the site you'll notice there's a considerable amount of construction and the overhead electrical utilities do limit us in construction so that's been considered also. Geometric constraints concrete box structures are the least expensive type of bridges. Unfortunately geometrically we're constrained vertically what we need is a very shallow bit later to show you. And also we do not have a center span on 101. Caltrans with the knowledge that a bridge could be built without a center column had basically had the design team in the project consider bridge types that do not have columns on 101 right away. On the west side of 101 in this location is our commercial sites. You have Dick's Sporting Goods Codding Town and you have also Myers restaurants. Each of those sites are very visible from the highway and they've each asked to maintain that visibility so that's been a consideration also. In terms of construction process and how we build the bridge it's important to consider closures. Closing the freeway is obviously going to be a more complex element and more difficult to do and obtain approval than a bridge type construction that would not require its closure. Also lay down areas and things of that nature have been considered. In terms of visual context we'll be showing you pictures from the site that it's a very open area so we want to ensure that we complement that. Also in the northbound directions there's the backdrop of the hills and whether it seemed appropriate to maintain that particular visual. And as I said the community preference was very important and that preference was do what you can to build this structure. Thank you. Here. Sorry. Oh, yeah. Thank you, Stephen. So these considerations and I apologize for being so lengthy with them basically resulted in three bridge types that we could look at. One was a through trust bridge. The second was a tide arch that was located within San Rosa and you'll notice that these trust structures have considerable mass and they're appropriate for their location because they're complemented by trees and other things that does not highlight their mass. Years are a particular location at O'Words and Elliott and you're looking at this and as we were indicating earlier you see that it's very open. You'll see a lot of sky and you'll see the Shiloh Ranch Hills in the background. This is in the southbound direction although you don't have the hills in the background. Again, it's fairly open a very wide area with a range bear cub location which is but not even a quarter mile south of the O'Words and Elliott location so you'll see very similar perspectives here. Northbound you still see the hills still a wide area. Oops, excuse me and then in the southbound direction for the bear cub location again very wide area very open. Years an aerial view of the O'Words and Elliott location as we were speaking to earlier you'll notice that on your left side which is the west side is commercial sites there's Codding Town towards the top of the slide we have dicks sporting goods also in matter of fact the bridge will be landing directly below on at O'Words there right in front of dicks sporting goods on the side loading dock entrance and then on the east side is the Santa Clara junior college I'm sorry Santa Rosa junior college yes here's the range and bear cub location again on the left side is the commercial site parking lot in the center the slide there that's where the bridge will be landing to up towards that parking lot is Myers restaurant and then on the right side the east side is the again Santa Rosa junior college and will be landing within their parking lot this year back in 2010 as noted in the slide there's a bridge crossing there's a bridge crossing and a bridge crossing and a bridge crossing and the bridge crossing is done for this particular crossing but at the time they were done there was a plant development on the west side in lieu of dicks so it was a more dense type of plant development therefore the proposal for example of a bridge that again is makes a statement but it does it's considerably heavy and we as the designers feel it may be too heavy for the particular location that we're proposing the over crossing here is an archway this archway here actually represents the length of the span that we would be proposing for our over crossing so again you could see what type of mass you would be dealing with in terms of over 101 in armory and Cleveland this year is through truss and although it's open there's a lot of elements involved and what that does it leads to considerable amount of maintenance and again it's open but there's elements creating a look of being substantial this year is a project in San Diego this year is a cable state bridge and what that does it basically has it's very light you could see through it it grabs attention other bridges that are lighter than what we saw previously are shown here these here are the arch bridges but again they could be very considerable in depth and making a statement what this team is actually looking towards in terms of bridge type is something that's more simplistic a little thinner and lighter at least gives you the impression as such here's an example of a type of bridge we would be looking at concrete girder although not very expensive it's the least expensive type of bridge construction if you look at the upper right what it does it's a pretty deep deck depth and although it works well for many over crossings we in our particular situation we have to keep the deck depth narrow due to our vertical clearances and our touchdown points we basically have to be over 101 we have to clear 101 by 18 and a half feet additionally we have Armory and Cleveland on the other side adjacent to 101 that has to be cleared by 17 feet both of those are Caltrans standards that we cannot deviate from in the Edwards and Elliott alternative we additionally have the complexity of a driveway to Dick's Sporting Good having to be cleared by 14 and a half feet to meet the fire marshals requirements so even though we have the driveway right there at Dick's that we have to be 14 and a half feet clear and then we have the loading dock which is the next western lead driveway where we have to conform prior to getting to the loading dock so we're very very constrained from a vertical alignment perspective and need to minimize that deck depth as much as possible to ensure that we make those conforms you're some visuals and renderings of what we're speaking to this is coming from 101 towards the west following parallel to Dick's Dick's Sporting Goods and there is a touchdown point where just towards me right after that touchdown point is the distance a year is just another perspective of it but you could see on the far right we attempted to show a fire truck and the proximity to the touchdown point into that fire truck is basically controlling much of the vertical alignment and here's a visual from top we attempted to show how one foot of deck depth really tends to be the length of the proposed ramp in order to touch down so one foot yields 40 feet of additional ramp so we had a look at very thin structures some thin structures that were thin were the arch structure here's an example Walnut Creek in the lower right thin light we feel appropriate for this particular location here are some butterfly truss structures because of the openness of the area we would recommend an open butterfly which is shown on the left but maybe not as much thickness in terms of its wings or truss other examples of light arches so here we have placed an arch type bridge at our particular location and this is at Edwards and Elliott looking north and then at Bear Cub also looking in the north bound direction in addition to a arch we feel a cable state bridge would also be appropriate type for this particular location here's an example of a cable state bridge built over 280 in Mary Avenue and it too has the power poles in the background similarly to our location you could see they blend in and it has a pretty wide open space similarly to our 101 location here's a cross section of the cable state bridge and you could see based on the cross section it yields the least deep depth another example of a very light open cable state bridge here we have placed the cable state bridge on our particular project what we would recommend for the cable state bridge is just to have towers on the east side the west side as we mentioned earlier is a commercial site and we thought we may want to put towers there in order to not obstruct the signage from all the commercial sites there additionally it seems as if the east side is a little bit more dense existing and might better accept the towers this year is at the Bear Cub location and you could see there's not much difference between the two locations that would predicate different type of bridges it's mainly alignment issues this year is our overall site the reason that we've shown this is primarily due to stage construction the big difference between a arch bridge and a cable state bridge is how they're constructed an arch bridge would have to be constructed in one be placed over 101 in one in one construction period so that would require the full closures of 101 redirecting traffic in the evenings on to medicino and to range avenue in a cable state scenario all we have to do is set the tower which will require the closure of armory in that specific area for a few hours and then what we would do is we would build segments of the bridge across 101 with lane closures on 101 as opposed to full closures so the cable state type of bridge offers us considerable ease in staging during construction and that's there is just the bear cub location so in summary the concrete box bridge although the lease expensive will not work for our particular scenario due to the vertical clearances issue and requiring minimal depth the truss although maybe appropriate it has very heavy members and also requires considerable maintenance so would not be our recommendation to go with a truss type bridge the tide arch does work structurally for this location the it can be very open which we would recommend but in terms of constructability in terms of stage construction and requiring closures of 101 it may not be as amenable for this particular location as would a cable state bridge that could be done in segmentally it offers the openness especially if we were to set the tower on the east side and it's also very light years examples of particular aesthetic features that we're looking at not in this particular phase of the design because we only are talking about environmental clearance but in the next phase when we get into the details we'll be very careful to look at the type of fencing that will be placed on the bridge as well as colors and cladding that may be appropriate for this particular area and that's the conclusion of the presentation thank you very much any final words from staff no so this is like I said it's a little unusual but we'd like to conduct it like a typical concept design review we do have some design guidelines that could be applicable we also and then we do have some members of the public so although not a public hearing staff would recommend that we take public comment as well thank you Bill and wonderful presentation we didn't hear Steven talks I don't know how eloquent he is but you certainly are as well at this point in time before we bring it to the board I'd like to take public comment so I do have two speaker cards to allow I mean not allow other people to speak if you want to after the two speaker cards but since I do have two I'll take them in the order in which received so first up we have Aris Weaver from the Sonoma County Bicycle Coalition good evening I am so glad that we are moving forward with this whole structure that will help folks get across 101 more safely I am agnostic as to the kind of bridge or the visuals of the impact my concern is more the placement and what is going to actually be the most useful for people getting from point A to point B and when you look at desire lines and where people are, where the destinations are that people are going to go the northernmost crossing at Elliott and Edwards makes the most sense it's closer to the train station it's closer to Codding Town there's already existing streets on either side whereas the southern approach one coming from the east to the west has to pass through the junior college even if you're not a college student there seems challenges there for people trying to get from one place to another so location, location, location just like any other real estate thanks the next car to have is Willard Richards Mr. Richards Willard Richards, I live on Highland Drive just north of the JC neighborhood I was delighted to read the attachments to this agenda package and see the cables stay bridge it's much better than anything I've seen previously I think the previous version had some wheels in it as it crossed Highway 1 and I'm delighted to see those go away also I'm glad to see that it goes behind the traffic signs so that that's not a problem and I first began paying attention to this project when Stephen Grover first came to town I'm not sure how many years ago that is and I'm not sure how many meetings I've attended where he's been making presentations but it's been a long time and I thank him for his persistence perseverance and good design I've always been an advocate of the Edwards Elliott alignment I participated in meetings with Cutting Town when they owned the property where Dick's sporting goods is now and at the time I thought that alignment was possible as far as they were concerned I can't see any reason that Dick's sporting goods wouldn't be delighted to have thousands of JST students have a quick connection to their door so I'm a little bit confused by the property owners discomfort with that alignment and I hope very much that the city can proceed with that part of the reason I the Bear Cub alignment is a little bit longer walk but that's not the thing that concerns me the thing that concerns me is that the east end of the bridge is somewhere down beyond the parking lots on the JC campus for the Bear Cub alignment but for the Edwards Elliott alignment it's right in the middle of where the students are they can see it furthermore the Bear Cub alignment doesn't go anywhere you want to go other than over near the smart station whereas the Edwards Elliott alignment takes you to Cutting Town where there are all the stores the post office and other services and so I think they're just tremendous advantages to the alignment Thank you Mr. Richards for your time this afternoon and for your continued following of the project okay next speaker card I have Mr. David Harris Good afternoon yes my name is David Harris I live at 355 Gemma Circle following this project for many years 2004 really prompted by the time that the JC was proposing its parking structure and a this over crossing was a in my opinion very viable alternative to the what in the end was 38 million dollars that the JC spent to add 633 parking places I mean $10,000 a parking place I think we need to think about other ways for people to get places when it costs more to park a car than then we'll ever get back and I suppose if we were to do economic analysis on the bridge what are the benefits economic benefits it's going to bring but certainly in reducing congestion on Mendocino and actually providing viable alternatives for people to be able to use smart et cetera we are in 2004 this was much less fuzzier that we needed alternative ways for people to access but the other thing having thought about this for so many years and having talked to Steve Silver and other people about this also for many years the unique thing about this location and we've been looking pretty close but a little farther to the west and north is the complex the Schultz Empire I would call it and you drive up 101 here there's Redwood Empire Ice Arena of course they're just shopped there in another building subsequently they built the Schultz Museum Schultz Creative is over there and the Children's Museum we have destinations there that would benefit from a place maker a place in the location of this bridge and that kind of thing needs to be thought about in advance the hills are nice there but we got another 100 miles of 101 to look at the hills I think this is a spot where we should seriously consider a real design issue and put something there that puts the stamp of one of the things that makes Santa Rosa famous it's not the right place to put to a memory of Burbank but it certainly would be the right place to put something that shows our peanuts Snoopy Charles Schultz all of the stuff that is very important to Santa Rosa's really world draw as a tourist attraction I mean I'm not even mentioning wine that's the other thing you could put there right there could be grapes in that design but I like these cables stay I like these light designs but I would really raise the question of whether we should go back and think about what we could do as a place maker what images on that bridge would really people would remember and would also bring to people's consciousness what is just off there to the left the attractions there four major attractions I think we really need to think about and Caltrans has very strict guidelines you can't after the fact after you've submitted plans etc even paint an image on a Caltrans right away so I would particularly appeal to the design side of this group to think about place makers because we don't have that many place makers we could have you know statuary we don't have any we got a bicycle obelisk down here most people don't even notice but we have very few things that are where the architecture conveys an important story about what has made San Rosa world known and that is the Schultz and the question of economics is bridge going to be paid for maybe there's a way to tie those things together thank you thank you for your words Mr. Harris next speaker I have is Jenny Bard hello and good afternoon everyone here I am my name is Jenny Bard and I live in the JC neighborhood and I'm a member of the board of the Sonoma County Bicycle Coalition and like David said have been involved in the planning of this the support of this the promotion of this for many many years and so it's very very exciting to see these designs and I totally support what the other speakers have said before me I'd like to add to that to go bold and go visionary in the design this we hope really will put San Rosa on the map so I urge you to think big and the impact this will have on our city in helping us promote more people getting out on their bicycles more people walking getting out of their cars this is a huge piece of the puzzle and missing forever and now we will finally be able to connect the east and west parts of Santa Rosa safely the other thing I would add I would encourage you to select a design that has the broadest visibility from outside and looking up at it so that people feel safe using it if there is a corridor if there's some sort of fencing it should be clear and it's the least amount of barriers that prevent visibility so people feel safe every step of the way on that bridge starting and stopping so I thank you for being the first Santa Rosa board to look at this, these designs and helping us bring this to fruition thank you thank you Ms. Bard next we have Rick Coates yes Rick I'm Rick Coates and I represent a non-profit called Eco Ring which promotes ecotourism and green travel so aesthetics are certainly a consideration here I do like the open cable design there that I think is ecstatically pleasing I took that opportunity to actually walk this site this afternoon and as I walked along Elliott I was struck by the first was the ugly power lines that go across the freeway there and line the line Elliott and I'm just hoping that whatever design comes out of this will eliminate those lines perhaps they can be disguised in a conduit of some sort with the bridge that would be really nice the second thing I noted was pedestrian traffic those students was quite heavy on Elliott not so on Bear Cub I think that from a utilitarian standpoint it would tap into much more traffic pedestrian traffic in the Elliott position and of course the destination of Cottingtown is quite important thank you thank you Mr. Coates Thomas Ells good afternoon thank you for the opportunity to speak and addressing this design issue one aspect so without negating anything that has been said here in the moments before from public comment anyway certainly meaning a statement and the electrical wires and doing various things it occurred to me as I was watching this first of all I'm a civil engineer myself and the city doesn't have money for this right now and so it's going to have to it's going to have to understand or think about the expense so that could delay the actual work from my observation I'd like to get it as soon as possible it would be good to be a statement it might be possible to look out at a box girder in a different way because what it does is it's holding itself and anything you put on it or hang from it so you could instead of having the deck on top of it you could put it higher and hang from it a lower deck a deck hung below that could be very shallow very thin and it would kind of be a cross between the butterfly arch type or something like that and the box girder so it would kind of be a combination of that but it could have a very much less expense than the other types which involve very, very significant design aspects like these, you know, TY Land International the other ones who do these and remember what happened with the Bay Bridge is that it became extremely expensive not necessarily TY Land's design but when it went through everything the complexities and everything became extremely expensive not to say this would be extremely expensive just probably a lot more than Santa Rosa wants to spend but there could be some other designs for instance because the boxes are very readily designed very simple, very easy and then on top of that you can make any design that you want. Thank you Mr. Ells Next up we have Steve Bertelbaugh Thank you Mr. Chairman and members I'm Steve Bertelbaugh with the Transportation Land Use Coalition I really want to commend Stephen Grover for working through this project for its long, long life and the concept as it's been described really appeals to me in particular I like the fact that we've straightened out the east side of it that seems to be the result of more cooperation from the college and the north section does appeal to all of us much more than the south option that's where the people are a difference of a half a mile it's a great deal to folks because as we understand people on foot are willing to walk about a half mile to a destination but if you add another half mile they're likely to get in the car and our whole objective nowadays is to get cars off the road we're getting pretty congested so thank you Thank you Mr. Bertelbaugh Danny Sheehan Hopefully I'm the last I represent friends of smart with the decades of knowledge and I'm just here to say that we support the cable state bridge at the northern Elliott Edwards crossing Thank you Ms. Sheehan Although I don't have any more cards I will ask if there are any other members of the public who wish to speak on this item Seeing none I will close public comment bring it back to the board for comments Mr. Wicks dare I call on you to kick off the board comments I dare Questions and comments are fine we'll keep it pretty yeah we'll keep it pretty loose with structure All right my first questions for staff are you looking for our comments on where it's touching down as well as the design of the bridge yeah I think it's pretty freeform at this point I'll let the project manager comment but a couple of locations have been provided and then as you've heard some design ideas with a preference toward the cable state okay thank you for the presenters did just out of curiosity the butterfly trust option if it were to be considered how long would 101 have to be closed to put in a bridge of that style I'm gonna minimize my speaking I appreciate your you're talking about the butterfly tide arch so there are a couple of different ways to build that the most cost effective way is what Natalina mentioned which is to a thing nearby and lift it into place this type of bridge has been built and there are other precedents for it it would require a night closure probably five hours more we'd only get four and a half so very tight the other issue with that is if the northern location is indeed preferred can we get the layout area right nearby to assemble something in for a couple months have it taking up space thank you another question is one of the people that spoke from the public mentioned that Dick's Sporting Goods had some objections to the project in the entitlements process are both sites secured from being able to build on an either location so currently we're in the environmental process so this isn't technically a project so no negotiations in terms of right away can happen until this becomes an actual project within design I think that's it for me Adam? Sure there have been some questions about timing and funding of the project too is there any sort of this has been going on for a very long time and probably going on for much longer too any concept of that we have a lot of additional updates granted that we complete this technical studies we go through public open house we circulate the draft we are looking to have environmental clearance signed off with CalChance sometime next year early so probably April 2020 and then at that point could happen October 2020 beginning of that fiscal year federal-wise that particularly schedule for design duration probably a year and a half so construction would happen the year mid-2020 right now we don't have funding secured for construction but we do have funding secured for design Okay and looking at sort of the landing just at the Dick's sporting goods side on the Edwards Elliott side just concerns me just because it really dead ends at that loading dock I understand that there are the site constraints and I've followed along with this project for a little while and evaluated both of the the alignments and there's definitely you know there's more people up at the northern aspect and it seems a little more shorned into the site into the actual neighborhoods than the southern alignment which fits to me better into the existing neighborhoods the existing like a bit eastern networks that are there and potential future networks too and it also in a planning sense programmatically it fits into what used to be the railroad alignment coming across there with the diagonal which still is expressed in the street grid which is a nice there's a nice aspect to that as well but the main concern is really how it's shorned into the western northern portion of the site and how I know that it's been evaluated but the safety concerns with barreling down the long ramp to dead end at the loading dock can you talk a little bit about your thought process for that it's certainly we share your concerns and we've done everything that we could think of to address them so to create visual elements at the base that are going to capture your attention and show you that you're going to have to slow down make sure that the sight lines are very open so that you will see trucks and traffic and that they will see you this would apply of course to the way you light things and the way you deal with the railing and the curves excuse me the handrails and then of course there are some things that we can do with signage as a compliment to good design and striping but the geometry is really what we're stuck with we've tried to maximize that touchdown area as much as we can within the limitations of ADA slope requirements one last aspect of this is and this kind of references back to the gentleman the civil engineer's comment I'm going to take a slight diversion to address that because it's relevant to this which is we have limited width to work with so by maximizing the width available to people on the bridge we can best maximize safety for people using it in terms of mode separation people passing each other but also in terms of this touchdown area that you're concerned with and that ties back to the point about considering concrete structures that have the structure above the deck rather than below one of the issues with that and I'll just say that there's a lot of structure for another project in Santa Cruz so it's something we're very open to but in this case that would require additional width and because it could not be as much of a closed point symmetric form the torsional stiffness would have to be achieved by greater member thickness so in short you end up with a lot more you're taking up a lot more of the width where people want to be of the limited width that we have available here and we think it's more important to give that to the people the traveled way space I definitely agree and I appreciate those thoughts in bringing that in actually that does flesh it out a little bit and in terms of construction of the bridge and the options I do think the cable is I really enjoy the lighter area aspect of it too and it does seem to be to me to provide the most space on the actual bridge itself and then that actually morphs into kind of a question or a comment for staff as well in terms of where we are in the process and where in your discussions going forward in terms of your internal meetings if this comes back to us because in the process and thanks for updating on the timeline I went to one of those public meetings last year it was a great public meeting and just it seems that we're commenting on the alignments general structure of potential design you know sort of preferred alternatives or sort of getting towards something but there's a lot left to be determined so this is almost an introduction for from a design standpoint to what's here this is we're looking at larger picture and then to really drill down on the specifics of the accessibility specifically how the landings are put there the lighting the programming the artistic elements and that seems like it's a lot that's going to come at much later date which we as this board I think I know I would appreciate having another pass at that because as you get deeper into design concepts you there's always things that come up there's always value engineering that happens and so kind of bringing it back to having a real design say I think it would be really important at a later date one of the things about this you know all of these the comments about you know kind of meeting this city back together what's really great is that this is an amazing opportunity to write some of the planning wrongs or maybe different choices that have happened over the past you know 50, 75 years and so to do something that is not just utilitarian but is really making a statement you know there's been a lot of talk about statements for presenting Santa Rosa to the world to the region to people passing through and they're you know having a beautiful design and something that is made to be a design rather than a utilitarian bridge if it's possible and affordable in a way or if it fits into that who knows if it's affordable but that to have that is a really amazing opportunity to make a bigger statement and a bigger piece and so I think that bringing it back to the design is really great I mean thinking about you know someone brought up the new bay bridge something like that where it's making that beautiful grand statement like the sundial bridge and in Reading there's something that's an actual you know design that's beautiful this could be that you know this is something where people are driving through Santa Rosa and that this is when you're a kid you have those moments where you pass something on the highway that signals where you are and this is like the entrance to you're getting to the river where you're getting to wine country or getting to out of the bay area this is where you're getting back to it so this is a real great opportunity and so I think that I think that's a great opportunity to bring this to the next meeting. Yeah those points are well taken I will certainly pass those along to the other departments as we continue discussions it's an exciting project and it is at an early stage and I can appreciate your comments in terms of wanting to see it as it evolves through this process and gets into a finer level of detail so I will pass along all of those to know how much detail to go into if we're just kind of looking at big picture and giving our thoughts and impressions but we get into real specifics you know it's hard at this point so to have another opportunity to do that I think that will wrap it up for me for now Thanks Adam True Questions and comments Sorry why are you not subject to city entitlements Bill So as a provision in the zoning code that essentially says city projects are subject to the minimum extent of the provisions the application has been that city sponsored projects do not go through design review, planning commission review they're just not subject to any of the provisions of the zoning code I thought there was something there I just wanted clarification on that We're in the beginning phases of I guess a CEQA EIR or something along those lines tied in with Caltrans in terms of your timeline Same middle not an EIR I think we're heading towards more of a negative declaration CEQA NEPA Yeah, okay cool Those are my only two questions I think it's an interesting discussion for this board to talk about a bridge over the highway in many ways because we're all design professionals in the kind of building built environment but what's I think unique about pedestrian bridges is there an extension of kind of that outdoor space and how we move between buildings and between spaces that we occupy and so any sort of width that you can create I think the asymmetrical cantilever cable stay bridge kind of idea in terms of it sounds like you're able to maximize that width in terms of bike paths pedestrian pathways or planters or seating elements or whatever so that becomes an outdoor room and less of a bridge it's really kind of a unique situation because it's got a pretty nice view of the surrounding area if you're just on that bridge there's not many things just kind of like on top of 101 and so I'm going to the kind of the asymmetry of the last option for a wide variety of reasons it's not clunky it's clean we can make a statement as a city in terms of a progressive modern statement I think which we've had a lot of projects over the last two years I said two and a half years I guess as long as I've been on the board two and a half years in terms of some modern architecture and some modern infused elements to really push the envelope and to do something that's clunky like our pedestrian foot bridges quite frankly which is what they are the pedestrian foot bridges they're not a 70 foot span bridge that crosses the highway to do something like that I think would be foolhardy in terms of just the volume and I think for you the maintenance element I think for the city to take on would be really unfortunate I mean if we're going to spend money on a bridge right and then the city has to sink money into maintenance every year to paint it or to clean it or whatever that wouldn't be the way that I would prefer to go and then as for kind of the connectivity piece it sounds to me like pretty much everybody kind of favors that northern alignment and I think for many reasons it does make a lot of sense it's closer to transit it's closer to kind of areas of activity as opposed to the southern one is kind of in middles of parking lots on both sides and in kind of industrialish areas on the west side whereas there's a more engaged element to both sides of the northern kind of piece and then I would want to push the envelope in terms of the design I don't think the little why thing I mean it's cool but you know as far as budget allows I guess right but I think going a direction with a modern bridge I think I would like to make a departure from traditionalism would be a way to set Santa Rosa apart in terms of this particular element and if the city was so inclined to go that way the design of the bridge itself could make that statement without signage or artwork because the bridge itself is the artwork so I don't think that's a good question to comment appreciate it a few quick questions well I'll leave it to comments I don't think I can help in regards to design the opposite from Drew more on the traditional side I prefer the through truss bridge and most of those are the concrete girder type so you have the fountain grove overpass, you have the bicentennial overpass you have the Earl Street pedestrian bridge is also a concrete girder Baker overpass and Corby overpass so all of those are concrete girders they're not the most attractive by any means but when I look at here to arch or the tide arch as well as the cable we don't have anything like that in Santa Rosa and where my personal opinion is different is that it's really going to stand out but I'm not so sure necessarily in a good way so I think the through trusses are more consistent with the history of Sonoma County in Santa Rosa but I also understand that it's more important to get this project moving forward than trying to get funding for a more expensive option so I don't think I can provide you much help with design my opinions are different and I think the overriding concern is let's get this project going forward because there is a definite need for it so with that I think where I'd like to see in regards to whether we're looking at the north option or the south option in this process I didn't hear today what I would like to see is reaching out to our stakeholders and those stakeholders being the junior college the Santa Rosa high school and looking out where their pop student population is coming from because they have that data when you look at where we've built in the last 10 years on the west side of the freeway there we have high density housing that's been built in the last two years off of Jennings, Francis Edwards and when you look at the southern landing on the west side over by Myers restaurant supply that's a much easier connection point for that high density housing but again I would rather than make assumptions would rather look at data points on how many how many commuters or users there are for the smart train and the smart station there at Guernville road the student population for the junior college as well as the high school and use those data points to help us make a decision on the best use where we're going to get the most use out of a north location or a south location where I would encourage so thank you thank you Eric, good comments question is on the environmental clearance that you're working on is the length of time effectively determined by the Caltrans process or is it just the complexities of the site or the sites being considered you can be honest I don't see any Caltrans represented now so Caltrans has a structured you know progression for the environmental approval it's it's very you have to submit one item then the next and so forth so I think a lot of it's attributed to Caltrans requirements also there's been extensive outreach which has also contributed to the development or postponing some of the technical reports because we did open it up to locations and those locations will be totally evaluated through the draft environmental document and the technical studies in order to obtain comments and comments on both locations before decisions made and that was my other question is the environmental clearance document is considering both landing spots or all four landing points within its current form like as far as your parallel pathing PG&E another entity Caltrans and the other owned sites does it consider the environmental document currently or is that another sequential step and then you start evaluating the landing points no I'm trying to understand what you say but evaluate the landing points from an environmental clearance would be for the entire project so at either location and then just from a border of magnitude on cost going from one bridge system to another what is it like going from the cheapest to the most expensive is it 2x, 5x, 10x I mean wondering if you can give us a rough understanding of that we've tried to show you and recommend a structure type that would be most cost effective for this for the particular constraints at this location could you build a bridge that's cheaper yes with significant compromises like big use and more property acquisition and so forth it's probably possible but given the goals of the project and the constraints we've tried to give you something that's clean simple elegant cost effective and constructible so none of the alternatives that we've shown you I wouldn't say any of them stand out as significantly different in cost we did mention that there would be a difference in maintenance costs trusses have a lot of surface area equally any type of cable supported structure will also have some maintenance costs associated with tuning the cables if you choose the right type of detailing and structural system that can be totally minimized one of the bridges that I was involved in 22 years ago the Berkeley bike bridge has never had any maintenance on it and it's doing fine just to give you a sense great thank you I appreciate cost considerations you're part of it and I just wanted to know with what we were looking at as options what the difference would be I think that I kind of agree with a lot of what I've heard even though they've been varying comments I think that what I'd be appreciative of is a simple and light and airy design that is unique to Santa Rosa whether that means that it's drastically modern unique or whether it's more attuned to things in Santa Rosa that people are drawn to that you say I have arrived that would be appealing as well but definitely light and airy and everything that you've kind of taken a step towards in maximizing width and making all the clearances obviously that are your constraints I think you've done a great job in getting to where you are in presenting this I would like to echo my fellow board members' comments in the fact that we would love to see it again if it can come back through that would be much appreciated I think it's a huge project for Santa Rosa it's a game changer and I think it sounds like you've done a lot of public comment periods and sessions so that's very much appreciated I would recommend that continues as the design evolves my questions to the environmental assessment we're mainly going to be if you can be bold in declaring a negative declaration I don't see either site maybe the south site on the west side maybe has a little bit of space that hasn't been developed where you're landing but outside of that everything's already paved over or a sidewalk or I mean it's pretty clear and the fact that it's in the station area plan you know that environmental document already exists but if it's a Caltrans sequential process I've been there so I understand oh Chair Kinkett I had one thing I forgot to mention yeah no problem I'll get to you in two seconds I'll wrap up real quick I think the comment that I heard having it clear and visible transparent so that everybody can see and people are very safe is very very very important and I agree with Adam and others at the drop spot on the west side on the north option is tough and problematic but I think that it can be worked through it might not be the best solution having bikes flying off and coming to a dead end but that might be the safest option and having them jog around a barrier if you will with lots of signage head and truncated domes and that sort of thing but that's kind of how the smart train overcrossing is at grade level are you going to have to weave your way through so that you kind of slow down and pay attention to what you're getting yourself into so that might be an option anyways I appreciate being part of the process I know my fellow colleagues do as well and if we could continue that would be great so thank you sorry I apologize I had one thing that I had written down here that I forgot to mention and it has to do with I think the how we screen and protect pedestrians and bicyclists I've never been a fan of the chain link solution I don't think anybody is and I think what is great about your presentation is just starting to think about those alternate solutions about what is that containing element for the bridge itself and I think this ties in with the other comments that we've made if it's light and airy and it's modern or whatever that has to translate to that safety guardrail as well and it can't just be solved with chain link fence with a curl up at the top and maybe some barbed wire you know fortunately Caltrans now allows either a recurve over or greater height so we're looking for the greater height also angle create a more open outdoor space and finally we are looking at a cable mesh instead of a chain link and I think that cable mesh is a really beautiful design solution instead of a chain link it sounds like you're looking at those things I just wanted to make the comment public to staff so they're paying attention to that too which I think they are they're very good about listening to us when we say hey pay attention to this element guys and they write down they pay attention to it thank you any other comments having heard fellow board members speak you got some comments Henry questions if I don't see this project again I would like to I kind of echo some of my other board members comments we'd like to see it come back even if it's just a concept so we can give you our two cents worth as it continues to develop I'm kind of torn between the cable stayed bridge and the arch bridge the arch bridge has a feeling and element of the other pedestrian bridges that we're used to in Santa Rosa but I don't fear modern design and I think that the asymmetrical cable stayed bridges is probably my favorite if it had some modifications to it because I don't like the rabbit ears on the TV look I think the bay bridge just recently done with the pylon being an element that everything else springs off of is a very strong look to it and still keeps the lightness of the cable stayed bridge which is probably my favorite just because of its super lightness to it and I don't think it necessarily has to make a statement other than beautiful when you drive by it and at nighttime if the cables maybe had some lighting on it similar to what they've done at the bay bridge I think that really accentuates and gives it a whole different look from daytime to nighttime I would hope that that pylon in its new form could also be moved between Armory and 101 and I know there's probably a lot of reasons why maybe can't but if it could be looked at I think that pylon would become more of a featured element when you drive by it rather than being kind of just a chunk off to the side and I noticed that in your very early on one of our first presentation pieces the material which also had an aerial of the northern site which is my preferred location for the touchdown but the aerial photo had the site probably just after the demolition of the Los Robles restaurant there because there's nothing there that's even built and it's bare ground the banks wasn't built either so I appreciate the length of time you guys have put into this and I hate to just give you a few comments that would diminish any of the hard work you guys have gone through to bring it to this point I think the touchdown spots I think that near Dix I think is a little bit problematic on the north even though it's my preferred location but if I looked at the south one and I drove it today and I got over the side and while you couldn't make a U-turn and get back on the armory with your bike or walk you're going to keep cutting through there and it's very crowded in there there's lots of diagonal parking spots I don't really see where a bike path could even be put between where it touches down in Mendocino I'd be concerned beyond the bridge and how that access connects with that I say get the bridge built too I'd love to see it can I ask a clarifying question you're requesting that we consider a single pile on design yes okay any other final comments from the board Adam one question actually was kind of brought up in a comment that you made about the fencing or not fencing the cable mesh so you are getting down to details of thinking of cable mesh versus chain link we're thinking about it but unofficially yeah okay that was a question of how close we are getting to the detail that goes to my questions of process too of course I know as designers we're always thinking about every piece of things every piece of a project okay so that's and yeah as far as one last comment on the utilitarian aspect versus the the beauty is that I mean things can be useful and very beautiful too and so I think this is really I really want to stress that let's think about that really kind of pushing the design envelope a bit it's a great opportunity thank you Adam I think I've heard it a couple of times but I think everyone is very appreciative of all the hard work and being steadfast and continuing on with the project so greatly appreciate that also I think we're ready so if we can get it built sooner rather than later that would be fantastic so thank you for all the public participation as well this afternoon it's much appreciated with that I will close item number 6 and move on to board member reports do we have any board member reports seeing none we'll move on to item number 8 department reports bill no department reports okay then I believe that brings us to item number 9 which is adjournment we are adjourned