 Welcome to another episode of HBCU Digest, Digest After Dark on SiriusXM142HBCU, the pride of Howard University. I am your hostess Tiffany and obviously I am permanently on the roll. These are my hits and Jared is on vacation for the foreseeable future. So tonight we are joined by the regular daddies, Laurel the Aggie, Midnight Winston, getting them into school, Orison Murgonite, and KD from Coppin. What up, though? It's lit. These are my hits once again. So guys, gals, friends, family, how are y'all feeling tonight? Now that I'm in charge. We in the game, baby. Nothing else? No. Nothing else? Respect. Respect. Respect. Respect impacts. You're on mute, ma'am. She won't even add me. Hold on. That's silhouette. Oh my gosh. She won't even add me. Hold on. Hold on. Hold on. Hold on. That's silhouette. No. Can you turn your head again, please? That's nice. The tape of it. That's nice. I'm sorry. I am loudly jealous. I can't get my bush to do that. It's too cringey. Okay. All right. So if you all don't have anything else to say before we get started, we can just get started. So late last week, we all learned that the Lincoln University of Missouri, their president was having these problems with their board. That was the first story that came out from Digest in the briefing. And then literally maybe, maybe two days later, definitely by the end of the week, we were seeing that there are a lot of things that are going to be happening. We were seeing that their athletic director, former athletic director, maybe he still is the athletic director, is now their interim president. And I know I had a lot of quick thoughts when I saw this. And obviously here's Jared saying this piece of news. It then came out shortly thereafter in a story on multiple sites and definitely on the Digest that he is, in fact, their interim president. So I know, of course, what I thought, but really quickly want to get your thoughts on this. I know that as somebody who works in higher ed, who has served on a committee that was looking for a provost and vice president of academic affairs, I was like, where's their provost? Was John mostly the most qualified person? Was he the true number two person to lead the institution? Where is their executive vice president? And again, is he the real number two? Like, what is the original succession plan in case a president becomes not the president anymore, right? Still do not have answers to those questions because I definitely went to their website and went to their provost's page and I did not find a provost. So I'm throwing it to Laurel first. Laurel, ma'am, please tell me something. Well, you know, HPCU websites are not known for their brevity or UX design, but that's not the topic today. I mean, I looked at what I could of his resume and so I think on its face, it looks like, okay, why did they just pull this random white man? And so he's still very much a random white man, but at least he's a random white man with higher ed admin experience. And he has the degree to back it up because we know people care about degrees. So I feel like on paper, he does qualify. I know people get wrestled when they see a white person in leadership at a historically black college. I just feel like, I mean, I also question, like, okay, if he was the best possible option, who was all there at Lincoln? And what's going on? Did someone really have something that they were going to be put on the summer drama screen for if they got selected and they said, oh, no, let's go with him. Just to be safe, don't know. Could be worse. Really could be worse. But there was an article that Jared dropped in the chat. And in this article, the only thing that I really, really remember from it is that he didn't intend to be at Lincoln as a permanent administrator. He did not originally want to be one. So what changed to make him decide, oh, I seriously want to be here as an administrator. And then is that enough to make anyone, whether it's him or somebody else, say, oh, I can do this enough. I want this to enough to be the president if it comes to that. Like, I think I wouldn't be as hesitant if I didn't read that he said that when he was first hired at Lincoln. So it could be worse. Winston. To Laurel's point, you know, it's interesting. We see a face, a certain face that gets put in, in these roles at an HBCU and it kind of, you know, brings about like these buzzes or like these concerns. I don't know enough about the man's track record other than him being an athletic director. And I didn't, I'm not privy to the, to what the one you just talked or information we're just talking about. So, you know, it looked, it don't look good. You know what I'm saying? The optics are questionable. At the very least, the optics are questionable. You know, then there was a picture that I was flowing around social media and he has a multi racial family. Which, you know, I guess adds, you know, maybe a little bit of credibility to the idea of him in that role at an HBCU. I mean, it just, you know, it just looks funny. I don't know. I don't know the legitimacy behind it, but it's just, it just looked questionable, man. It just got, you got questions like some smell funny. Like, you know, on joy row, we say just, it kind of looked funny. Like, I don't know what it is or what it's, what it's not, but it just doesn't seem like to the points that have been made. Was there nobody else? Is, you know, what is, what does succession plan look like? To Laurel's point, does somebody have something on somebody that they weren't able to or that he got bumped up to that role? I don't know. Yes. And like if, if he was, if he was most qualified, why was he just the athletic director? Why was he just the sports guy on all of this? I don't know. Katie, are you, are you together enough to give yours? Yeah. So reading as much as you could possibly read about this story, because there is not much. The thing that stood out to me in the letter that Lincoln published is that he's a great fundraiser. Family man too, but a great fundraiser. And that's largely why he got the job is because he knows how to raise money. Whatever success he had, it's probably what kept him there point blank period. I mean, I don't know how it's the frame is, you know, I've stepped into jobs where I'm like, man, I don't know from feeling ahead. And then I get to know the people and I get to know the population and it's like, all right, I'll stay for a while. Right. And so something better comes along. And remember, this is just interim. Now, could it turn into permanent? Yes. Does that normally happen? No. But if they feel like the random white man is the best option right now, then we just have to live with that because we're not in control of these boards. These boards clearly don't care what the community thinks. I think you can go down all 100. We may have some input, but by and large, they do everything they want to do. Right. And this board is no different. So if they feel like the random white man is the best person for this place in time, we got to ride with it, especially given we don't know Missouri politics. And so we don't know what other obstacles could be in place with the wrong power. And maybe he's able to cut through in a way that the 10-year black professors or the 10-year black president's can't at this point in their stage of leadership. You say something that and it only makes me circle back to asking where is their provost. No, no, no, a provost also should be raising money to establish new programs and to fund programs. So that person has to be a good fundraiser too. So again, where is the provost? Like where? Where is the provost? I don't know. Or you got it. So I think that one thing that I noticed and I looked at is you have to remember that Lincoln is a public land grant school in the state of Missouri. And obviously Missouri does have two very large black populations in terms of people in St. Louis and in Kansas City. So it does serve a purpose. And in some cases I do tend to lean toward the idea that it's hard for black folks to get positions in leadership anywhere else. So we should have a monopoly on those and our HBCU now that we have them. I was to be all over the history of Mordechai Johnson and so forth and so on. And the leadership change I went from white folks leading the schools to black people and then we've had a monopoly on our space. So I don't like seeing an opportunity taken away from some of them black because they're not going to get out of white school. So a white person getting a role in the leadership of a black school always feels like are we doing enough? Because we only have so many jobs and they're not getting promoted at these predominantly white schools, especially in the Midwest. So that's the first thing. The second thing I thought was I think it shows a really interesting campus dynamic because if I worked in faculty, how would I respond to the leader being chosen as the athletic director? Faculty people have a very particular type of attitude towards non-clinicians. People who have not sweated and toiled in the classroom or done research or done something in academia. And so even though he may have the credential in terms of a doctor in education, one, I feel like there's a hierarchy with PhDs, one. And then two, I don't know the campus climate, but I can only imagine how some professors are probably taking this because again, usually you want to pick a dean. Sometimes you don't want to pick the provost because you want them to stay in that role over academic affairs. You usually want to pick somebody whose job is not as intensive like a dean. A lot of times you see deans of business, deans of liberal arts, deans of sciences take an interim role because they can do both at the same time and the provost can still run the operation to a certain degree. But I just thought all of it was weird. But then again, like Missouri higher-rated is where we remember what happened with the Mizu football team. This is a public school. This is an education that had the same type of issues with the Missouri president leaving. Again, I don't put anything past it because the same people who put this board together at Lincoln put together that board at Mizu and the issues they've had out there. I'm glad you brought up the board because I was thinking about the board and I think this goes back to something that Katie said a little earlier. I went to a look for the board as well because who made this decision? I was thinking about what the breakup was of the board and not trying to rely solely on identity, politics or symbolic representation. But the majority of this board is male. And then I was like, well, what type of men are these? Are they black men or white men? What is it? From what I could find, it is I didn't find a picture of her. I don't know what she looks like, so I don't know. But what was interesting to me is that either one of their board people, either he is a current judge or a retired judge think from memory. I think that's what it was and I was just like, hmm, I wonder what the authority like who holds the power on the board to influence a decision like this because did they really think that this was the way to go? And if they did not think that this was the way to go could they say this is actually what we're not going to do? I don't know, I haven't seen anything outside of that, but that is what I have found and what I'm still questioning again, how and why. Katie, you had something to say what was it? The last thing, there were no universities around? I just thought about it. He's an ED and no disrespect to that discipline, but yeah, in higher A tenured professors and tenured professionals probably should be in these roles. No, and I'm going to tell you why. There are people that are scammers and charlatans that are currently running universities right now. There are people that are running their schools like Fortune 500 CEOs and they're not running them into the ground. So I think especially now with like COVID anything goes and so the fact that he has a terminal degree that has a D on the end like that's good enough. There's plenty of people that don't have tenured haven't ever stepped in a classroom. They weren't even a TA and they were in the presidency because at that level that's not really what matters. I mean it helps. I'm not saying that you know if you taught you should never be president it's just not for that role you need to know how to talk to people you need to know how to raise money and you need to know how to stay out of the 10 o'clock news. That's the case and he does all of that. He checks all those boxes. And he has the complexion for the protection. For the collection. On that note we are moving on to our next topic because Laurel you did it. So obviously we have seen the American Rescue Act and what it looks like for individuals with PPP in that whole situation. What it looks like for cities and municipalities and school districts I know I've seen. But for those of you who may be unaware everybody is getting the money. The monies are flowing because we are rescuing America and that means rescuing individuals with like I said giving PPP to business owners small businesses, large businesses, corporations whatever they like to cities and I mean by the millions and there are time constraints attached to these COVID relief funds so the money has to get spent right. So in our sector what that looks like and what that means is that we getting this money there are HBCU grants that many schools are announcing that they've received and they're doing things with this money that they are going to receive or have already received from the federal government. And so late last week I caught a story why are y'all laughing? Late last week I caught a story here it is where $84 million has been secured by John Ossoff and Reverend Warnock for Georgia's HBCUs this is a photo from the press conference this is the photo all of or the majority of the HBCUs represented are HBCUs that have received funding from the American Rescue Act one of these things is not like the other in fact so there's that I will say that and so I am asking you all or as you're going to be first but asking you are what might you want to see of your HBCU or of the community in particular with this money I know that in this article in particular they talk about how half of it for each institution half of it must go to student scholarships okay that's done I get it for any school that's in the AUC that is a big deal because they're very expensive to attend but the other end of that money the money that's in the free and clear that go towards innovation and whether that is tied to like institutional innovation so a solution or a special program or whatever what might you want to see us do with this money or not us then well yes us do with this money to make it go further what might you want to see or you're up I would say two things the first thing would be institutional infrastructure and the second thing would be yeah pretty just infrastructure in terms of I think that one area where our schools have the ability to improve this without processes in terms of emissions in terms of financial aid in terms of housing just just basically we still operate on very old systems and I think that the issue is for some of these schools you know just an upgrade of systems can have a big impact on how well you run how quickly you can report to DOE how quickly you can get information out to students to I think in all of these situations that really is that should be the key focus I think also they can do some things to beautify that's always nice but I think the biggest thing that already happened was getting the debt forgiven so the schools are operating in a period of some positive cash flow for the first time and probably ever for some of these schools but I think it would be a gross misstep if they used it on marketing things of that nature because you can get some of that stuff organically I think they need to spend their money on infrastructure and really work on campus wifi work on the systems work on the website work on all the things that you need to help pivot towards this new normal because we're not going back to the way it was so you might as well invest in the way it's going to be so I think that's the key thing that we need to do is to work on the technology okay Wednesday as somebody who like we all know takes hundreds of kids year after year to a lot of different institutions and definitely to a fair few of HBCUs as somebody who works closely with institutions that are not HBCUs that you want to see yeah well first let me just say how important shout out Stacey Abrams when voting is when you have people in the rooms and spaces that understand what needs to get done and are able to execute said needs and necessities look at what happens I just want to start off with that shout out Georgia and Stacey Abrams and then as far as what we want to see I think Orr is hitting on the nail for a lot of things you know simplistic but very vital you know things like having strong Wi-Fi things are going to attract the attention of a young person to particularly attend those institutions because the reality is you're competing against not just HBCUs typically for our students but you know PWIs and large institutions, state funded institutions as well so you have to be able to keep up with some of those those ancillary those the physical things or things you're going to see or part of your experience at the institution or part of the infrastructure that's definitely crucial I think some innovative ways to attract talent like you know you kind of alluded to to me you know a lot of these other institutions have the ability to have grants and funds in place to help students who are below socioeconomic backgrounds or issues you know under those those umbrellas so to be able to put together packages for those students especially if you have a student who's already going to be full pale grant which we're typically dealing with in the HBCU sector being able to add money on top of those students to make education more accessible to those young people I think is critical and pivotal and then the infrastructure piece I think that plays the part for those students who maybe do come from a more beneficial background and so if you have those funds in place in general and you do those those amenities those infrastructure things to be able to help attract some of them who maybe the other options they have you know have some of the shiny objects or those other things so if you can do that you can also attack being innovative with scholarship options for students who are below certain thresholds I think that's huge that would be pivotal to be able to have more conversations and being able to present more of our options in this case particularly look at what's happening in Georgia you know Savannah State is one for me I think it's a great option that's not talked about a lot we've sent a few young people down there and they've had great experiences and got some great opportunities from that or in Albany State I think those are huge you know to be able to put them on the map and be more notoriety potential to get more talented young people to come to those institutions but I'm excited I mean you know we talked in an article also about access and making these schools more accessible so I think that having these funds allows them to have to be in the conversation more which I think is an awesome thing as you were talking I was thinking about the perfect balance or marriage between tradition and innovation a lot of what makes our campus our campus is what they are and why they feel like home no matter where you go is the tradition that lives in the buildings it's because they're so old that is the spirit of the campus so I think I think that's very important to say to actually say into name I know that when the quad as in the girls residence hall the traditional one at Howard was being remodeled we were like that booty that booty wall better still be there it better still be there it still is there I mean it has a new new face new grill it looks very nice but we were all looking for the booty wall because tradition so I just I had to say that Katie you're up so I read an article I took it was a couple takeaways I had one just thankful that some of the students that are struggling to find monies to graduate will probably finally get that opportunity and have that way lifted off their shoulder kudos this is a big thank you from John ourselves and representative Warknock you know the HBCD community pushing them over the line in Georgia along with the HBCA rooms and so it was well deserved by all of the AUC and all of the constituents in Atlanta that helped attached to HBCUs and so with that in mind the elephant in the room with them to always be we had to miracle work to get you in this position with that in mind I think some of this money I said has been wrong because I definitely agree right just put money into the campuses make them beautiful make infrastructure but all that is important but some of this money needs to be spent to ensure that the contributions they make can continue to be made especially given that Georgia with Georgia and their voice oppression and the nasty laws that have been passed recently it would be Hoover universities to at least mobilize their political science units their criminal justice units so in a way that they can still affect change on the ground in coming years that's just me being creative with the spending you have to say access money that came from the government let's kick it back into the system to make sure that we can continue to get money right and it doesn't have to be a lot either it could be the smallest contribution you could possibly make but it'd be more than enough to keep that engine going because again you don't want it just to be this one flash right you want continuous funds over coming years definitely Laurel I'd say beyond everything else everyone has already said I think I don't know I feel like the government gave us money doesn't mean we need to kick it back to them because they already get that every April 15th so they don't need anymore they're fine but I think that same money can be very degrading programming for institutions that don't already have whether at all graduate programs or enough graduate programs graduate programs that are competitive programs that are unique even though we're talking about Georgia I can name out the top of my head like a few programs that I only know about just because I look up everything and I just know things that outside of that area I know nobody knows that they're there like the nuclear engineering program that I want to say South Carolina State things like that and so bolstering those programs because like A&T for example we get a lot of money, government and non that just all goes to engineering everything and so it's like what would that be like at other schools like Eastern Shore with their aerospace and pilot programming and things like that you already have a good foundation who else is going to come to Eastern Shore let's be honest putting money into that and another program that I know some schools have they just market them poorly more money for programs that bring back returning students from people who started at the school in 1985 and had a good two semesters but then they had to drop out and they ain't been back in 30 some years and allows them to come back with them same credits and finally get their bachelor's degree because overall in higher ed there are more and more students that are non-traditional that are adults continuing education students and you need to speak to them too everybody's not coming in straight out of high school and they're 18 years old there are a lot of people that are in their 50s, 60s, 70s, 80s, 90s that are getting more degrees trying to finish the first degree they started and I feel like HBCU has already reached those students at that age already so why not just build on that with an older age base that is a really really great point that actually puts us right on time in time for our third our third segment and I was thinking that somebody else was going to hint at it you all hinted around it for the most part but obviously we all are aware that Nicole Hannah did not receive or did not receive tenure from UNC she definitely more than earned it of course but so she is the latest black scholar to be denied tenure at her institution and seeing that of course not surprised at all but I was unfortunately this is what came to mind but I was reminded of that one clip from early on in Donald Trump's presidency or maybe it was when he was still campaigning but he was just like to black people what do you have to lose and so in my mind when I saw this story about Nicole Hannah and I then thought about Coronel West fighting for the same thing I'm just like what do y'all have to lose because you can't lose your tenure because you don't have it so why are you still there so that is what I thought what I've been thinking about and at this point given that we as in our institutions have or will receive monies that we didn't know that we will receive so we have an excess of funds like Katie said earlier we now have money to do things that we probably didn't think that we could do before and so I was thinking that you know this is high time right on time to start snatching black scholars hey come over here do what you were doing there but here oh and we'll give you tenure right so in my head because I am a millennial I think like everybody else on here maybe not Winston hold the line this is actually what I was thinking about when I made what I'm about to show you all next but Jared obviously shared the story I said oh this is the one so obviously he outlines Morgan Howard ANT fam you will see I'm going to cut you off the same board that denied her at UNC ain't going to let her go to ANT okay first of all let me finish my point how you going to cut off the hostess I will grow you back or please don't act like you don't know me alright we'll grab backstage that's how you don't mention ANT because ANT minds their business you got some beef you better pop that to Howard alright back to the point that I was before or is as I was saying as you can see maybe you can't see but Will Brathard said deadest of asses this would be a cool for all of y'all and it would be and so in true millennial fashion I was thinking about the Mighty Morphin Power Rangers and how they would all come together and form one big megazord and so I did just that because that's what I was thinking about and for those of you who are not millennials who have not seen, not nary a power rangers anything who maybe are not parents of millennials or grandparents of millennials this is a megazord and so as you can see I'm looking at y'all backstage y'all are hilarious as you can see Howard is at the top because it is lonely at the top you will see Fam as the Striker because Striker Striker again A&T as the foot that just made sense to me to put there and then Morgan because that's all I can think of honestly because bears scratch whatever and then as the wild car I just picked the old school Hampton Pirate I don't really have a reason for that but anyways so that's what I was thinking about so I would say of you all and I will bring Oris back after he's done with his bid in the green room what do you all think about this idea this concept of yes of course we have this money we will have this money but ensuring that we create things that aren't create experiences fund experiences educational experiences through these scholars where we're creating something that we are getting a return on because we're educating our people we're giving them something that or not our people but our students we're giving them something that they wouldn't get elsewhere so we're working with them to create something through black scholars like Nicole Hannah or in other words black scholars who've been denied senior at their traditionally white institutions so Laurel going to start with you this whole situation is ashy but expected I mean it's Chapel Hill Chapel Hill charges their own students 75 dollars a piece just to go to the basketball game so you got to fight out alumni and all them old white people just to go to your own school's game that's where it ghetto I think it was a long it wasn't really a long way I think if you I follow her on twitter so like I've seen emails right before she even wrote the 1619 project so I saw this coming but I think with I mean at least for her she is an alum that makes it even more like wow y'all are like we knew y'all were racist which are really just y'all care no more I think for her and other public intellectuals regardless of where they were educated I think scholars have a tendency to not just chase the money but chase the prestige so that even if a school like Harvard that has the largest endowment in the entire country possibly the world but country will literally hand you a piece of toilet paper with shit on it and you will take it gladly and that's essentially what people do and they'll say here's a crumb even though you've literally written all the key books in your field you're an expert of experts here's this little piece of dirty toilet paper you're going to take it because it has Harvard's brand on it and so I think with HBCUs we may not all have as much to offer in terms of dollars and prestige but it comes I think it just comes down to like when you go to sleep at night do you like who you are because it's very those we all know we all get in the same rooms I just have less school debt than you do so it's like for a lot of people even if they're being shit on they're still going to take it because oh it's Harvard, oh it's Princeton oh it's Duke oh this is R1 University I'm going to be world renowned it's a lot easier to just follow in the same overly tread path than to create a new one with an institution where it's going to be a bigger risk it's going to look more unique you don't really know where it's going to go you don't know what you're going to be able to do but I think a lot people just go what they know even if what they know is racist is selling out so I mean like with the Coronel West situation I was like yeah you did all this stuff you were also an alum and they were just like nah and so you're leaving in a huff but what is that doesn't change them because they'll just get somebody else and they'll make a new Coronel West or what's his face what's that man that be you know or having all women even though he married and had to uh we're not going there we are we are no we are no now this is not about womanizing men in scholarship because that is an entirely different podcast people like him he got run out of Georgetown and he still got a job at Vanderbilt so it's just like you know he's not at least you either oh and y'all can Google it later because I'm not lying I don't tell lies but I just think that there's on the side of the intellectual at the end of the day it's like what do you what do you want your work to speak to who do you want to speak to what do you want your legacy to be what do you want your legacy to be because you can't keep you know it's like going to McDonald's and crying that they don't have no veggie burger McDonald's McDonald's doesn't sell meat we don't know what they sell we know there's animal byproduct I don't know which one but it's like you know what you're getting each time and it's not going to change so it's like outside of like their whole situation with the board which is also trash because they only have two women on a 12 person board only one of them is black don't know her don't want to say anything about her but it's like and everybody else is a white man only one of them is young everybody else old white man so it's like and then they're in the pocket of the ncgop so it's like you have all of these things and people were saying oh what does this say about politics infecting public higher ed and I'm like they already have that's how this whole thing started from the beginning so it's like you can't unless you want to start a new icdc college and run with it it's not it's not going to change so I think I think for those intellectuals and anybody that's in a pipeline that wants to be the next Nicole Hannah Jones or we don't even know the Cornel West but in that same vein they really have to ask themselves okay whatever my field is what do I want to do with this do I just want to write books and collect a check maybe do an appearance at Jamal Bryan's church and call it a day or do I actually want to enact change whether you know my name or whether I'm a household name or not that's what people got to ask themselves because I feel like if you want to be the Jimmy Swagger of scholars just I would rather you just own it and go on about your business you made a point about them being there and accepting this treatment even though we know what traditionally white institutions do and what they mean to black and so in my mind if you did it once you can do it again like it's not the institution that has made you the scholar not that institution in particular what I should say for Cornel West if he's or him being an alum alright you got a little bit but like everybody isn't in everybody who works as a professor at an institution is not necessarily an alum of the institution right so if it didn't make you don't feel like you have some or maybe some people do I don't feel any ownership of Michigan I don't feel any ownership of states I don't feel any ownership for any traditionally white institution maybe there are some black people who do but not me and so maybe that's what they feel they feel and ownership I don't know how but maybe that's what it is and that's what keeps them working or wanting tenure at a traditionally white institution that could be it I'ma go to Winston Winston first off the amount of disrespect am I a millennial dog I don't know back story for everybody Winston's grandmother and my grandmother were friends Winston all I know is maybe the same age as my oldest cousin but I kind of don't know how old he is so I don't know I'm a millennial dog I'm sorry alright go on go ahead I told y'all to let Laura loose and we have a time and you should have done it earlier but here we are so the praise from the article know your place aggression I'm using that going forward I think that's a perfect description of what they put this amazingly brilliant talented sister in a space of and to Laura's point some of it probably voluntarily you got to know what you're getting into you know what you're getting into it's no different than University of Michigan and other schools that we can name who treat the same thing you can take this getting spit on being called out your name so you can say go blue one day or something along those lines we got to have real conversation about loving yourself about loving being ok embracing being black and we're not just thinking of them as beneath just because they are that you know because the reality is we talk to the kids all the time I'll put my you know Philander Smith my Talladega college my Harris those students to get your best U of M student and watch them watch them because they've been poured into they've got resources and opportunities that have fed them to be successful so you know you you feeding this idea about your really good branding and your funds to be able to sell your brand institution or having better resources or opportunities if FERPA wasn't a thing we could name these students Winston and I could name these students if FERPA was a thing we could name them I'll just name their schools I'll just say the counter schools just to put it out there but in reality you know it's unfortunate the situation is unfortunate but it is a reality check for everybody and to your point hopefully it is enough so for people to consider you know why you might want to come on home and why what's the value in coming on home especially right now because the iron is hot so you know it's buzz words about diversity and inclusion and HBCUs are at the top of the conversation there's not a better time for you to come home and really show what it is then right now the iron is hot you know what I'm saying so you might as well get your clothes down and get them boys straight because that's where we are right now and you know I just I think it's just a reality check like I said it's nothing new it's nothing none of us already knew about UNC Chapel Hill it's just now it's in the forefront now everybody can see it in this plane but the reality is we know it was there and it's not just UNC Chapel Hill it's a bunch of other schools we can name that to Laurel's point we'll take Boo Boo on a stick and be like oh I'm glad that it's your Boo Boo and I'll take it as opposed to being celebrated and it's no different than these kids Yikes Winston has dropped off he'll be back though he'll be back KD you're up that was terrible he's back hold on his eyes are moving now hold on Winston you're back my back internet is unlawful what were you about to finish saying no I was just saying you know the kids these students are no different than the professors chasing cloud and it just has to come to reality that's exactly what it is to Laurel's point stop chasing these names in the cloud and go where you're celebrated and you have real opportunity that's all that matters at the end of the day absolutely KD you got it man I'm listening to y'all I over thought this entire situation right because I watch and read too many current events from down the time and so if you've been paying attention to political Twitter and political well actually the political space in general it's the education right now the GOP is feverishly fighting back this idea of studying critical race theory it's so we're gonna get to that at some point and so if you don't know what it is because it's very complex but it's the intersection between race and law and how pretty much laws are racist in this country and how it affects racial interactions throughout the nation but it's really only studied by either law students or like really in depth criminal justice political science students it's not something that's broadly covered it's not in high school I teach in high school critical race theory never comes up as a subject of a topic of conversation in the social studies department I can guarantee because it's entirely too complex and so since she was a part of the 1619 project I thought this was just them punishing her saying hey you wrote this anti-american part of the show this anti-american document there's no way that we can put you on a pedestal for you to continue to write anti-american documents like the 1619 project but it might be more primitive than that she's black she's woman she will probably leapfrogging a lot of white men who probably did not earn their positions anyway right she's brilliant and she's good and point blank area white men are intimidated about black women that are good at their jobs it scares them for whatever reason and it's just so unfortunate that she doesn't want to find a home at another at least at this point that she doesn't want to find a home at another HBCU I say since she doesn't have tenure I would still be looking for a job because that I mean when we talk about budget cuts the untenured faculty go first and who knows how long this money is going to be flowing around I know UNC is good I know they got endowments for days but still when they want to fire people they attack the untenured people first so if I was her I'm still looking for a job and I'm going wherever I can find some tenure but if that's not where her heart is I'm sorry I don't know at some point you got to value yourself more than the system and it seems like she just values the system a little more than herself and for what reason I do not know you're muted sweetie I don't know I don't know if I can fully agree with that only because we would be expecting her to do what others have not done like Laurel just talked about a well-known black scholar who went from Georgetown to Vanderbilt my man can I go to wait what HBCU is in is it Vandy? so Fisk and Tennessee we didn't go there so why? I know but I still have to point out that we would be putting a lot on this one black woman who has to be a black woman scholar in a white system what's new what's new what's new I get it somebody got to take the first step you could always putting it on the black woman to take the first step she broke the 1619 project so we're already doing that just by you can always count on black women but for this I need to see somebody else just by being in academia it's already hard to tell being a black woman check Niki Giovanni who has her doctorate and how many years that she told them about the student she became the v-tech shooter and she told them to watch him and yeah this is what he's turning into me y'all need to look at her like yeah whatever and she was already Niki Giovanni at this point and so like as a black woman in and outside of academia you're getting it from everybody you're getting it from white people you're getting it from black men you're getting it from people with other marginalized identities whether you have other intersecting marginalized identities on top of so I'm not putting that on her she already wrote the 1619 project to me she good on black forever like her ticket is paid but I think it's just it speaks to a larger conversation of other scholars those who are household names and those who are not but are doing equally important impactful work that is impacting policy and all these other things that in getting that one woman who shall not be named that likes to lust after other people's husbands named John Legend actually she wouldn't because this would be a different chair but maybe she should have the Samuel H. Proctor chair just a thought because if follow my train of thinking since there's so many white schools that seem to have African and Afro-American centers, programs colleges etc etc on their campuses have chairs tenured chairs, research chairs research grants pipeline programs then that is the only way that I would accept a black scholar to be at a white school is if you're leading those departments because I know there's at least one that's led by some old white man and then they need to then they also need to pay it forward and then either construct a pipeline that works in conjunction with Moreland Spingarn the other university that may not have a robust archive or library system but say here hi I'm Yale look at all this material and resources that I have we're going to establish an agreement and we're just going to do a memorandum of understanding and any student that is related with your campus undergrad to grad and post grad has access to our resources thanks to this agreement that's easy as hell to do because they do it every day with insert sport here so they could do it even if it's not the moving of individuals there needs to be moving of some feet and some dollars because it doesn't make sense that the same asshole schools that was you know once upon a time selling negroes and that's how you got all your money in your endowment because you were not paying for labor to keep the lights on at a school funded by the Catholic church amen praise Jesus it does not make sense to know that that's your history and talking about okay we're done that's our reparations oh no it does not even begun to be done and so people say oh well should we just get rid of the institutions I'm like no because they will have to pay those reparations forever until time ends they will have to be doing that whether it's through institutions or individuals I think it's on individuals to start the way I don't think those individuals should be black women first they can be like this black men can be first but it needs to be it can't just be her because I feel like I feel like she's an easy target because you know the news focusing on her right now her name is always going to be attached to 1619 project which is still active it's ongoing I don't think that's fair to put all that pressure on her and at the end of the day she's still an alum of Chapel Hill so even if she decides to walk away from them forever she still has beef with them and that's her business but anyone else especially people that are still coming up they haven't even you know they are ABD those are the people that is really going to be on to say okay now that you're out what you're going to do are you going to stay at this school that you're at because you got your degree from Boston University or Boston College doesn't mean you have to stay there because people have money or you can apply for a grant and take that money with you and say hey here's me with all this money this is the work I'm trying to do you got office space and depending on the environment they'll do it if they're smart and now we will allow Orr's to have his say Orr's to be brief the first thing is that I think that we don't have many like people who are active creatives who are on faculty or HBCUs so I know M.K. Asante that Morgan I know we have had people in the past that other school TSUs had people like Robert Bullard different people who have been kind of active in their field while teaching quote unquote but I think as Jared would always say we don't have money at most schools to have faculty on payroll who are teaching one creative writing class or somewhere in so long or who are flying in for a month and then flying back to New York or wherever they do their business because usually faculty HCUs have five or six classes graduate and undergraduate depending on the program the second thing I think is that I don't want these people at our schools to be quite frank I don't want the person from Detroit who got Lulep Georgetown at Fisk I don't want the person from Sacramento who been at Princeton the other school I don't want him at Howard and Morgan I think that we as schools and one of my alma mater's presence does a lot offering people jobs offering the awesome people who spoke at the inauguration for one poem it's like I don't want cool and I say that because I want people who are dedicated to the mission of our institution which is getting the students ready to where we got to go I don't care about the notoriety because at the end of the day you know this is no different than the young man who we ain't young no more but the man who's out in Jackson Mississippi this is no different than what's going on right now in Nashville is that we make decisions for marketing but it doesn't help the students like I would love to see the graduation rates at Jackson state I'd like to see the job placement rates for those students after they finish their time and he's transitioned to an FBS job which is what he wants in the first place so I'm just I'm not a big fan of going for big names because that's not that's not our mission or our mission is to help black people then our mission needs to be focused on that and quite frankly she don't help nobody and no offense to her but you know she's even spoken about how you know she was raised by you know her parents one parent is black one parent is white she went to Notre Dame and then went to UNC for grad school she her journey to get to this point was a personal journey for herself so maybe she can finish that at HBCU but I don't think it's I think it'd be about her searching out for us and the same when she starts out for the 1619 project turns out to us as well I don't want us going after these big names solely for the fact of having them on staff because I don't think it serves us and quite frankly a lot of these people mad are rude and they're assholes and they only care about themselves they're self-serving they're egotistical and they think that they shit don't stink and quite frankly they're going to run up and that's it Morgan or a cop or a TSU and deal with somebody who fresh off living in the project we ain't got time for that attitude that concludes our Digest After Dark episode for this evening on Serious XM Channel 142 HBCU the pride of Howard University again I am your host is Tiffany for the foreseeable future because Jared on vacation and I am permanently on the road thank you so much stay safe and that'll do it